1 877-431-4276Oladele Isola | Muslim from Nigeria Becomes a Pastor
Pastor Oladele Isola was born as a Muslim in Kaduna State in Nigeria. But now he believes Jesus is his Savior and Lord. On today’s podcast he tells us about how be became a believer in Jesus.
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Transcription:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Oladele Isola was born as a Muslim in Kaduna state in Nigeria, but now he believes Jesus is his savior and Lord on today’s podcast. He tells us about how he became a believer in Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:17):
Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall C. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith. They’re powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:52):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus on today’s podcast. I am joined by pastor deli from not India, but from Nigeria, Pastor Deli. (Oladele Isola) Thank you for joining me today.
Oladele Isola (01:12):
Thank you, Reverend King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:13):
It’s so wonderful to have you with me. And we want to talk about what God is doing in your life. You have come from Nigeria here to the United States and you have been going to Bible school at victory college. That’s right. And then you have been Atma the last few years. Tell me some about how you ended up here in the United States.
Oladele Isola (01:43):
Yeah. very briefly I was serving in the church where God privileged me to start in the Eastern part of my country, Nigeria, which is called a Saba in Delta state. And we started a work there in the year 2013. And after about two years when the church was growing appreciably I got a lead to, to come to the United States and got opened the door for me to attend the Bible school here. And so here we are to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:23):
Day that’s so wonderful. Now in Nigeria, you were actually born in a Muslim fam family’s and you grew up as a Muslim, but now you are Christian that’s right. So tell me, how did that happen? How did you become a believer in Jesus Christ? Oh, well,
Oladele Isola (02:44):
I, that was when I was about 25 years old. I just finished high school. We call it you know, secondary school in my country, Nigeria. And at this time in the family, I had a, a kind of a freedom of choice because in my family, you had no choice other than to follow the religion of your parents and grandparents, you know, especially that my grandfather was in ALA and a very strong and disciplined one. So at that time of my life, I, I put the Quran side by side with my Bible and I discovered some things about Jesus Christ being the way, the truth and the life, which was contrary to what Muhammad said. And at one time I was almost confused, but later on, I got convinced that this is the way I needed to follow. So that’s how I became a Christian. And also because Evan made that decision. I began to encounter people who preached to me often and in the bars, traveling to Lego state at one of my, you know, periods of vacation. I met a brother from the poly technique who preached in the bus and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:05):
He, so there was a guy. Yeah, you were, you were driving in the bus. Yeah. A long trip. That’s right. And a guy stood up on the bus and began to preach to preach. Yeah. And
Oladele Isola (04:14):
He did that a lot in my country. Yeah. And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:16):
And so what did he say about Jesus that, that pricked your
Oladele Isola (04:21):
Heart? Well, like I said, he began to say things that I had known before about Jesus having read, you know, throughout my school, days in the Bible you know, about Jesus being the way, the truth and the life being the savior, the one who can, who has come to save us for my saints and all, all of that. So I, I, I was, I was persuaded in my heart hearing him preaching that boss and with the boldness and confidence that he said, I, I knew that in me, I needed Jesus. So I gave my life to Christ and he began to follow me up because he showed up in my house about two weeks. I, after, when we lighted from the boss, I didn’t see him again. But two weeks after that, he came back, you know, to visit me at home. And from then on, he began to follow me up. So, and then I, I had no choice, but to fully surrender my life to Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:19):
So later you became a pastor and actually planted a church in Abuja, Nigeria, which is the capital of the nation. And in the nation of Nigeria up north, if I understand correctly, there there’s many Muslims. And then down south, there’s more of a, a Christian pop, but Abuja is kind of where the two sides meet. You have both Muslims and Christians there. So tell me, what did your church do to reach out to people and tell them about Jesus in your area? Oh,
Oladele Isola (05:56):
Well, we first off I was under a ministry when I was privileged to plant that church in another area, because there were so many branches being planted at the same time. So the area where I was sent to what we did was that we reached out to people in the neighborhood, like in that area, we had lots of prostitutes, people who were like, you know, and then so homeless people. So I haven’t stayed there for about three months trying to see how do we reach out to these people? So myself and my wife, we came up with some idea after praying that we need to go to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:36):
Them, where are, because we can’t just stay in church and be giving out flyers, maybe at the entrance, expecting them to come. So we needed to go there into their brother. So we went there to meet with the head of the, you know, the prostitutes. And then we told them our intentions and we bought some gifts, you know, to brushes, we packaged some food items just to reach out to these people. And that, that was like an encouragement to them. And that made us to witness some few tens of handful of people that came to church to following Sunday. So what are some of the ways that you, your church would go outside the walls of the church? I think what you’re saying is absolutely correct. The church. Can’t just wait for people to come in the doors of the church. They have to go to them fish. Don’t usually jump in the boat. You gotta go catch the fish and bring them into the boat. So, so what are some of the ways that your church reached out to people in your neighborhood?
Oladele Isola (07:41):
Yeah, like I was trying to say, we look at the needs in the, in the community, in that neighborhood after starting them, after doing the kind of survey or interview with people on the streets. And once we know that, then we go back to church. We pray together as a team, we, we consider ways of, you know solving and meeting their needs because Jesus also met the needs of the people. And that’s why they were able to follow him. In fact, the hungry people with, with you know, with food and, and they were, they were able to follow him after he had preach of them. So that’s one of the strategies in which we use. We, we talk to the people and then we go out there to, to actually distribute, you know, what they need to them. And of course that’s what people need. And once they hear that, they’re able to hear your gospel. You, you give to them. And then the, I mean their need. And then they also vision, which is the primary need of their lives. They listen to you. So I haven’t met their needs, they’re able to listen. And then they come to church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:52):
You’ve been here in the United States going to Bible school. What are some of the lessons that the holy spirit has been teaching you? What, what is the message that has been burning in your heart?
Oladele Isola (09:07):
It’s it’s just about souls. The world need people who compassionate for the loss, because what I’ve seen here is that people are too how will I put it? They’ve grown like lethargic to the gospel. And it’s like, it’s not reaching them because of comfortability. But I know from what I’ve seen, that many souls are hungry and they’re actually need Jesus. And so we need to, to just not talk about any other thing, but Jesus, as the main thing, that’s what they need here. They don’t need, like I’ve just said earlier on the needs of the people, what they need is not food. Food is not their problem here. It’s not some other, other, other stuff, but they need to present Jesus. There there’s something in the souls of men here that have discovered, you know, once Jesus. And once that is, once you hit that point, you see, most of them brought crying because you have actually touched what they need in their soul, the void in their soul which is Jesus.
Oladele Isola (10:24):
And that’s, that’s only Jesus. That can feel that it’s not what you’re gonna give to them, because they’re not much after what you can give to them. You can’t lay people with money. You can’t, it’s unlike many other African you know countries or other continents where you use you know, meet their, their needs. And then you can easily reach them. But here, the lesson of learned is that you actually need to talk to the souls of man by preaching Jesus. Jesus is the man. He said, the man, Jesus. So once you, he, that, I mean, you see salvation is the result.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
Jesus said, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men onto me. Exactly. And so you were born as a, a Muslim, but you got exposed to Jesus. You, you told me that you actually had gone to some Christian schools as a, a young man and, and they, they taught you praise songs. You, you began to hear about Jesus. What was it about Jesus that really attracted you?
Oladele Isola (11:31):
Wow. You see, like I was saying earlier on, there is something that Jesus feels inside of a man, which is eternal. It’s spiritual. You can’t, you can’t explain it. There is no other teacher, no other religious leader, no other person on earth that ever was that can feel that gap, that longing in any man. So in answering your question, what it was that, that attracted me, that made me kind of is, is part of the teaching. She said, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. I, I be began to, I was exposed to the truth from, from kindergarten. I went to St. Burnett’s private school in Abel. I went to African Joe grammar school in the same Abel. I went to McJob grammar school, all these are Christian schools and they exposed me to the Bible. And in my CRK I was score like almost a hundred, you know a, I was Aing all of this.
Oladele Isola (12:32):
So I grew up with the knowledge of, of, of, of, of, of Christianity and about Jesus, especially Jesus hearing songs about Jesus singing, songs of praise on the devotion, in the assembly about Jesus painting, a picture of him that died on the cross to save my sin, me from my sins and, and me, she in his blood Pictor I could, I could see him there and that was it. And there was no other person that, that could do that. And in my heart, I believe something opened up in me. And then that’s that’s it. I just decided this is the way I must follow him.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:11):
Often when people choose to follow Jesus, us, there is a price to be paid. And when you became a believer in Jesus, your mother was very unhappy that you had started to follow Jesus, very angry. Tell, tell me about that. How did that affect your relationship with your family?
Oladele Isola (13:31):
She was not only unhappy. She was angry. I mean, what did she say to you? She, she disowned us. I mean, when, I mean us, myself and my younger brother, his name is Samsung. I mean, two of us were born again almost at the same time. And we brought that light into the family, every other person, they were, they were Muslims. I tell you of one very, you know, quick account that, that just came to my mind right now. I went for crusade, a meeting at redemption camp along the Legos, IBA expressway. They called it God end time army conference. And after that program, I can’t remember the year vividly. Now I came back and I said, okay, let me pass time at IBA, before going to a BECU you know, back home. So I stayed with my cousin, my cousin, he was living with his dad and his mom.
Oladele Isola (14:23):
They were all Muslims on Friday when I got there. His name is Rashid, but now I think he has changed his name. Rashid went to mosque on that Friday. When I got there from the camp, I bunked in his room, I stayed there. I was doing my thing. I never spoke to him. I never did anything, but they already knew by now that I was a Christian and I was coming from a conference. So I, like I said, I didn’t preach to him. So he came back and he saw me reading my Bible and all that stuff. So I just told him, I said, do you know that whatever it is you are looking for out there, Jesus had much more that Jesus is the one that feels all, you know, is the creator. He knows. He was like, he was looking at, and then I was, I teaching one or two songs that I came with from the conference by Saturday, he went out to the neighboring places and saw, you know, there are all these small, small areas that people, they just read.
Oladele Isola (15:24):
Some wooden stands for crusades. So he went there and he had a little of the gospel by Sunday. Rashid was in church. And when the father came, the man was angry because I was at home, Rashid himself, went to church and came back in the reign, the Bible that I was reading, he did under his shirt. He didn’t want the Bible to get wet. And the dad asked him where you, you coming from? He was angry at this time of the night because the crusade cruise in the night, he said, he’s coming from fellowship. The man said, what is fellowship? Which of your friends name is fellowship? I was almost laughing. And then from there on that boy gave his life to Christ. They called me names. They called the family meeting over me. That’s what I’m saying. It wasn’t easy. My mother has to come from a BECU to sit in that meeting.
Oladele Isola (16:19):
The man said he was going to shoot me. He was going to poison his son and kill himself. If his son does not renounce that Christianity or that Jesus, that that happened from Friday to Sunday. So that’s how it was. So we settle that. I left their home. And when we got back to my place, my mom continued and said, did you see the shame that you have brought us? And then she disowned us, disowned me because my brother will always go with me. She disowned us. And then I was to go for youth service. Then she said, I should go and meet my Jesus to sponsor me. And that’s how I went. So I faced a lot of persecution. It’s not easy being a Muslim, turning a Christian. And in that kind of family setting. So it wasn’t easy. There’s so much, so many other aside to the story, but for time sake, let me just cut it short there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:10):
Well, thank you so much for sharing that. What would you say to someone who is trying to make that decision of whether they should follow Jesus? How, how would you talk to them and tell them that they should follow Jesus?
Oladele Isola (17:27):
Oh, I would tell them that they don’t have to fear that they should just be wrestling. They should follow their heart. If they have a personal belief in Jesus, that he’s their savior because that’s where it starts from. God knows how to protect them from persecution. He did for many before me, he did it for me. He would do it for them. They don’t have to fear persecution. This time around there is no cult, no medicine or jazz. Like they call it no Juju, no caustic power, no power of darkness can overcome them moment. They accept Jesus and believe in him and his power. They should leave the rest to God. God knows how to protect his own. He will shield them. That’s all I will say. I’ll tell them to be resolute, to be confident in their decision.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:24):
That’s wonderful. Well, I know that God is using you to bring men, need people into his kingdom. My brother, my pastor. Thank you. Thank you so much for being a guest on the evangelism podcast. It’s so good to have you here. Thank you king.
Oladele Isola (18:39):
Thank you I’m please. I appreciate it. God bless you. Oh, bless you too.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:44):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, our ministry is support by people like you, who help us go to the nations to preach the gospel? Our goal is every soul. It only costs us an average of about $1 for every person. We’re able to tell about Jesus. And so could you do me a favor, go to my website, king ministries.com and become a part with us for as little as $1 a month, you can start to partner with king ministries and help us lead. At least one person to Jesus every single month. Imagine for $1, you can start a party in heaven every single month. So right now, go to king ministries.com and partner with us and help us to preach the gospel to those who need to hear the gospel. The most, the least reach people in the world. Also, I’d like to ask you to go to apple podcast and give the evangelism podcast a five star re view your positive review will help other people find this podcast who are excited about evangelism. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:03):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries com again, that’s king ministries.com.
David Kukoleck | Love Transforms People
David Kukoleck grew up in the backwoods of West Virginia and he heard lots of hellfire and brimstone sermons. One day he heard a message from Evangelist T.L. Osborn that completely changed the way he viewed God. Because of his exposure to T.L. Osborn he began enthusiastically sharing his faith with others using the secret ingredient of love.
Connect with David Kukoleck on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gpr.kukoleck
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
David Kukoleck grew up in the back woods of West Virginia, and he heard lots of hell fire and brimstone sermons. But one day he heard a message from evangelist, TL, Osborne. That completely changed the way that he viewed God because of his exposure to TL Osborne. He began enthusiastically sharing his faith with others. Using the secret ingredient of love.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:29):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your hope missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest with me, David Keck. Thank you for joining me on the evangelism podcast.
David Kukoleck (01:19):
My pleasure. And it’s my, I honor all the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:23):
Way. Well, thank you for being here. I originally met you in Accra, Ghana. It was at a T.L. Osborn crusade that was going on there. I wanted to learn from the great missionary evangelist, Dr. T.L. Osborn. And so I, I heard he was doing a, a pastor seminar and then a crusade over there. And, and so it was at that event that, that we met, Dr. Osborn was so innovative in how he ministered to people mm-hmm <affirmative> he would do before the crusade ever started. He, he would do a, a, a five day or 10 day for leaders, and he would start early in the morning, preach to them for three or four hours, take a break in the afternoon, then come back in the evening time and preach to them for another three or four hours. And people would just sit there and listen to everything that he said. And then he would send them out and say, let, let’s go lead some people to Jesus. And so the, the people would go out and start passing out fires and get ready for the crusade. And so after training all the leaders, then the crusade would start and he would minister to the masses of people. So how did you end up at that crusade in Ghana?
David Kukoleck (02:46):
I love to tell this story. I was working, helping actually at a book sale at the old Osborn ministries at 51st & Peoria. And I think they still do it now. Victory Christian Center has a yearly missions type conference and my friends and I were helping to sell the Osborne’s books and the churches books. And I was very excited. I like you wanted to learn all I could from this man who just seemed like a, a normal person didn’t seem to be really anything special about him. So as I’m working the table, I’m trying to pay attention to the people who are questions about books and which one they should buy. And we were instructed as soon as Papa teel starts talking, shut everything down so people can listen. So I said, okay, well, I’m gonna follow. I thought I was gonna follow the instructions.
David Kukoleck (03:56):
And somebody ended up being there and wanted to talk more. Papa had already started talking. And for some reason, like my, my antenna went up and he said, you know, you ought to join us sometime and come see the miracles. You’ll be amazed and your life will be changed. And it is like, my whole focus shifted to what he said. And down deep in myself, I said, okay, I’ll join you. And it was either the next day or the day after that, I ended up at the offices and I talked to the secretary and said, oh, I was working the book table. And Papa Patel said, Hey, you ought to join us. So, and so that’s why I’m here. I would like to join him and long story short. One of the things that really touched my life is when I ended up after a long series of, for the first time ever doing all the paperwork and showing up in a foreign country I out over there to the teaching conference that you were referring to where when Papa Patel teaches the Christians.
David Kukoleck (05:09):
And I think I was one of the only Caucasian people out of about 5,000 people that were at that event. As I’m walking onto the field, a gentleman approaches me and says, are you David? Now? I’ve never been in this country before. I, I literally know no one, except the people that are at the guest house. And I said, yeah. And he said to me, okay, I was instructed by the McNulty to find you and kind of take care of you and interpret the teaching for you. I was just shocked because I found out later that the office had told Papa TL my intentions, and I guess that I was pretty serious. And that man went out of his way to help me and told his staff to help me out. When I showed up, I knew nothing. They never contacted me and said, Hey, somebody’s gonna be helping you. They’re gonna sit with you. They’re gonna introduce you to people. I didn’t know that. And so in answer your question, that’s how I ended up in Aragon, literally at a public invitation from Papa.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:26):
And you actually grew up in West Virginia and in West Virginia, the, the churches that you attended as a young man, they preached hell fire in brimstone sermons telling everybody that they were going to hell, but that wasn’t really the message that TL Osborne preach. You were exposed to his message and it really changed how you viewed God. Talk me through that testimony of you went from the hell fire and brimstone of the churches growing up to having a, a new view of, of God valuing you as a
David Kukoleck (07:06):
Person. It was amazing how this came about in my life. You could imagine living, if you can’t imagine living way back in the country in West Virginia, kind of separated from the world, knowing there’s a world, because of course I went to school, but never really seeing and experiencing it. Firsthand, all I knew was kind of the, the four Hills that were around me in my local area. And when I received Christ, it was at one of those little Baptist churches in a town called little Birch river, West Virginia. And this church was kind of typical of most of the churches in the area. The, it was the center of what is known as the Bible belt and most of the churches that I experienced and went to as a young Christian and before I even received Christ were what you’re talking about. They were constantly condemning people and excuse me, telling, telling them basically what everybody know that their life is met stuff.
David Kukoleck (08:20):
And they’re gonna go to hell. And God’s basically the whole message was, God’s not really on your side. You have to get ’em on your side. And when I received the holy spirit, of course, he started the work in me to, to deliver me and tear me away from thinkings and ideologies that were harmful to me and harmful to other people. I didn’t really know how to put that into English back then, but that’s basically what he was doing about a year after I received the holy spirit. It seems like the scriptures just took on a new meaning of hope and life to me. And it’s like the holy spirit started to dig me out of all the ruts that these teachings and condemnation had got me into. It was along these times that I ended up at a friend’s house and not knowing who Dr.
David Kukoleck (09:26):
T.L. Osborn was as my friend and I were talking, he’s flipping to the TV channels and or T.L. Osborn comes on the channel. I didn’t know who he was, but his approach was so different than what I was accustomed to from the churches in West Virginia, that it caught me by surprise. He was surrounded by a bunch of trees in an office, and he was leaning over his little pull pit and just seeming like he was staring right at me. He’s like, he says, you know, we don’t have many friends. We’re gone a lot overseas. And we’re, we’re wondering if, why don’t you write us a letter and become our friend.
David Kukoleck (10:14):
I never heard anything like that. Especially from a preacher on TV. It caught me by such surprise that I just thought, well, I have plenty of time. I can write a letter. I’m used to writing letters. We weren’t even doing email at that time. I didn’t have a, so you wrote TL Osborn, a letter. I wrote him a letter and told him about my life said, will you be my friend? I’ll be your friend. <Laugh> basically, and look in a week or a week and a half. I, I went to the mailbox as I was used to doing, looking for something inspirational from somebody. And here’s a package from out sworn ministries. I opened it. There’s a letter back to me like they had actually read my letter and sent me a free cassette tape. When I popped that cassette tape in my player, I re I realized I wasn’t the only one in the world here was a man saying things that I had actually read in the Bible.
David Kukoleck (11:23):
And that’s really what I was looking for all this time. I, I had read the scriptures daily, but I couldn’t, I couldn’t figure out why the churches I was going to didn’t look like what reading in the, in the Bible. And that really caused a problem inside me, cuz the, the Bible said basically Jesus was the same. And I thought, well, if he’s the same, his, his teaching is surely the same. His church should I think be the same, but I didn’t see it in the church. And when I heard him talking, he was so convincing. It’s like, he actually knew what he was talking about. From that time I started at ordering a slew of material from the Osborne ministry and it seemed like every day I would go to the mailbox, hoping that something was in the mail from the Osbornes. And when I did receive something, my dad had built a, a bridge.
David Kukoleck (12:29):
He bought a railroad, the bones of a railroad car and dropped it with a crane over the river and then built a structure over the railroad car so we can drive our vehicles. I would sit, I just remembered this. I would sit on that bridge and slowly open the letter or the package from the Osbornes. And as I would hold it, it with my legs, dangling over the river, running beneath me, I would look at the stories and see the faces of the people that were healed and read the testimonies. And it was like, my whole life became that river. It was like, it was like my whole life was washing down the river and I was getting new life. So that’s that’s. And so you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:18):
Received inspiration from Dr. Osborn’s definitely example and you received new life. And then at some point you packed up your car and you actually moved to Tulsa and went to Dr. Osborn’s library and were watching videos and just, just learning everything you can then, then, then serving and then heard him say, come with me on a trip. Yeah. And you’re volunteer and say, Hey, I’ll, I’ll go <laugh> you just became a friend. And so you, you went with him and, and so since that time you have been enthusiastic about sharing your faith with others, tell some of the opportunities that God has allowed you to have going to different nations and, and sharing the gospel with people.
David Kukoleck (14:04):
Well, I’ll tell you what, like we were talking before, when, when this whole life works and, and, and functions the best when you love people. And I have found out from that first flight over to Africa, when there was, when, when I was going for missions and for Christ, I was sitting at the airport in Houston, Texas. And it’s like, when you make a, a big decision and there comes time, like it also happened when I had my first child, when he was delivered is like the whole world stopped spending. And you realize what you got yourself into. Yeah. When I was sitting at that airport and all the people from French speaking Africa started gathering in Houston at that bay. Before you get on the plane, all I heard was French. And I had kind of brushed up on French a little bit. But as like this, this cloud came over me and said, what are you doing? You can’t SP eat the language. You don’t know anybody. And thank God for the holy spirit, because like deep inside, he told me like, like a hammer or a gavel fell down. And he said to me, love transcends all barriers. There is no barrier when, and you have love. And from that moment on, I felt like I was in charge of the entire trip. I felt like the authority of God come upon me. And I became the friends of all those people. I love
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:48):
That. Love transcends all barriers. Yes it does. And I was looking at your, your Facebook profile. You have a little thing underneath your name there. It says, love is alive. Love naturally heals. The epitome of love is Jesus. He lives inside me. And then you say, I love you. Talk to me a little bit about love for people and why that is so important to have.
David Kukoleck (16:17):
That’s hard to put in the English language. I have had the privilege since receiving Christ of being around some people that have really represented the love of God in a tangible way. There were several, before I actually met papal, I never actually met his wife. She had passed on before I got to Tulsa, but I met of course and spent a lot of time in, in the work of Christ and in the church with his daughter Bishop LaDonna, but their, their influence in several others, Christians influence in my life, the, the love of God that came through them in so many different forms and fashions and teachings and touches and invitations in, in, in some way with all the inhibitions I had at the time, somehow, because of the love of God, it became a part of me. The love of God, like became attached to inside my life and inside my body. And it seemed like the decision to help people and to, to, to go beyond myself, became so much easier. When I caught this infectious substance, the love of God, there became no nothing that was impossible to do. No place is unreachable. Hopefully that’s give
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:10):
Me an example of how this love for people becomes tangible. Give me a, a story or somebody that you were able to impact with the love of
David Kukoleck (18:22):
God. I remember this yesterday and it’s so vivid in my mind, if remember correctly, it was on that first trip to west Africa, to a French speaking nation. The, the, the, the love of God inside me, just when I hit that tarmac. And I landed. It’s like I became another person. I, I, I was so alive inside. My spirit was vibrating inside me seeming like day and night while I was sleeping while I was awake, fast forward to through all the teaching conference, to when the public was invited. Those that were from all religions with whatever sicknesses in, in any situation was invited to come and hear about Jesus and receive a miracle. I had taken the Osborn’s advice, advice and showed up a couple days earlier just to kind of get a feel of the culture and to really meet people. I just wanted to meet people that were from some other country and lived a whole different life.
David Kukoleck (19:34):
That was attractive to me. I wanted to know them and I wanted to know their, their, what they understood. So I had done that. So I felt very comfortable with these people, cuz I, I felt like they were just people just like me, cuz I had been there for a couple days and I, I took a taxi through the city. It was a very large city and ended up being dropped off right outside the, the meeting grounds, which I found out was used to be a field. And one of the churches had hired some bulldozers and they literally plowed down the entire field of all the brush and the weeds. And it became a dust storm. The slightest wind would just kick the dust up. And I was walking around there just talking to people and meeting people that were showing up. And as I was doing this, I, of course I was probably one of the, if not the only white skinned person on the entire field at the time, because it was a long time before the meeting started. I noticed over on the side, there seemed to be a commotion. And for whatever reason I was attracted to it. Well, I went over there and there was a crowd of people gathered around something. I didn’t know what it was. And when I appeared in here is a woman rolling on the ground. And in my understanding, and from what I had picked up in my life, it seemed like she was really battling a, a devil.
David Kukoleck (21:20):
What, what struck me as strange and, and almost like angered me is, is that it seemed like these people were, were not helping her <laugh> they were yelling and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:35):
Seemingly in some countries I’ve seem to try to beat the devil outta people. Yeah. Which doesn’t seem like a very loving thing to do, but it doesn’t
David Kukoleck (21:42):
Seem like it works. They’ve been beat enough. And so I knew what I was doing. It was like, I split all those people. And, and I remember the one man was like kicking dust on this woman. And not only was the devil humiliating her in front of all these people by doing this to her, but added on top of that. She was becoming even dirtier by this man kicking dust on her. And I knew there’s gotta be a better way, you know, to help this woman before I knew what was going on. It was like, I, I parted those people and I melt down next to that lady and put my hand on her and I’ll tell you what, what, what came out of me was like a, all I can describe, it was like a force of power. Like something came out of me. And I looked at that woman,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:45):
I mean, in Matthew nine. Yeah. It says that Jesus was moved with compassion. It was like, compassion was a component of his power. Jesus is God, God is love. He was moved with compassion. It seems like you, you began to operate in that same compassion that Jesus has. It. It’s a
David Kukoleck (23:04):
Perfect way to put how I felt it like brings the, the Bible to, to life when you put it that way. And that’s a, it’s like how I felt I literally was moved seemingly without making a decision. I don’t wanna say God really did it. I did make a decision. I was there. So I had decided to be there. But when I saw that lady, it was like a, a, a, a force just moved me cuz I, I didn’t want her to be like that anymore. Something was not right. And I put my hand on her and really the rest is history. It’s like, she, like, she came to her mind like, like her eyes were open, but it’s like her eyes opened. It’s like, it’s like something inside her. The devil was, was gone. You can’t imagine how I felt, not just for her, but for me I felt like I was a, I was a representation of Christ. And I, I like, I became really what I was here for to help people. And it takes so many different forms when you really help people. And like you said, love when, when you’re immersed in the love by the holy spirit, the love of God, as Paul said, you become a different person and you, your whole life changes again, even, and being born again. You’re like born again again by the holy spirit. And so hopefully that helps.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:56):
I think that’s such a, a wonderful illustration that, of how love transforms people. David, as we finish up the, the podcast today, would you pray for those who are listening that would be filled with the compassion of Jesus, the love of Jesus for people just, just pour your love into this prayer and, and just pray for, for everyone who’s listening to be filled with that same love and compassion that you felt for that, that woman on the field there in Africa. I, I would
David Kukoleck (25:28):
Love to do that. I’m raising my hands right now because as I’m raising my hands, I, I, I feel for everybody that’s listening. Maybe that’s been in the condition that I was in without no hope yet. You’re a Christian. And you, you have been looking inside and I want to help you through the holy spirit now to experience what I have experienced. And right now I’m praying. And I’m, I’m asking our father to touch you in a way and to, to send the holy spirit to you right now, and to touch in the very deepest part of your soul and fix you and heal you with the love of God. Father, send your spirit, immerse people in your fiery love right now, transform people’s lives. Wrap your arms around people, let them know how much you love them, how much you value them, let a tangible feeling and a presence of the holy spirit wrap around and deliver people by the power of love
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:57):
Mass. Well brother, David, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast as wonderful to have you with me today. My
David Kukoleck (27:03):
Pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:06):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, our ministry is supported by people like you, who help us go to the nations to preach the gospel. Our goal is every soul. It only costs us an average of about $1 for every person. We’re able to tell about Jesus. And so could you do me a favor, go to my website, king ministries.com and become a partner with us for as little as $1 a month. You can start to partner with king ministries and help us lead at least one person to Jesus every single month. Imagine for $1, you can start a party in heaven every single month. So right now go to king ministries.com and partner with us and help us to preach the gospel to those who need to hear the gospel. The most, the least reach people in the world. Also like to ask you to go to apple podcast and give the evangelism podcast a five star review. Your positive review will help other people find this podcast who are excited about evangelism. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (28:26):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Please share The Evangelism Podcast with Evangelism Coach Daniel King with others who care about evangelism.
Sarah Nyanzi | Can God Save the United Kingdom?
Sarah Nyanzi was born in Uganda but now lives in the United Kingdom. She recently graduated from the Christ for All Nation Evangelism Bootcamp and now God has given her a vision for preaching the Gospel in the United Kingdom. Can God do the same miracles in the UK that He does in Africa? Let’s find out…
Connect with Sarah Nyanzi on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/skikinyanzi
To Support Sarah’s Mission to the United Kingdom, you can click here.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Sarah Nyanzi was born in Uganda, but now lives in the United Kingdom. She recently graduated from the Christ for all nations evangelism bootcamp. And now God has given her a vision for preaching the gospel in the United Kingdom. Can God do the same miracles in the UK that he does in Africa? Let’s find out.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:34):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King or Daniel interviews. Full-Time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:59):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest evangelist, Sarah NZI. Thank you so much for being with me today.
Sarah Nyanzi (01:12):
Thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor, and I’m excited evangelist.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:17):
Sarah is originally from the nation of Uganda, but now she lives in the UK and Sarah, could you tell me, how did you develop this passion for evangelism that God has given you?
Sarah Nyanzi (01:33):
Honestly, if I’m just to be honest with you, I’ve developed this passion that God has given me. And I would say it’s the gospel. I would say what’s changed. My life is here in the true gospel. I’ve been born again since 2012, you know, I’ve always been in the church. But what really clicked with me was when I heard the true gospel and when I heard the gospel, I remember when I received the fullness of the holy spirit, the first thing I wanted to do was to go out and tell somebody, I didn’t know what an evangelist was then I just thought, yeah, of course I have to tell people about what has happened to me. That was my first response. I remember getting on buses and on the street, I was like, I have to tell people what God has done. So for me, funny enough, it was only until later I realized, oh, that’s, that’s the thing.
Sarah Nyanzi (02:24):
That’s, you know, you that’s a calling. I didn’t know. I thought it was normal. So fell in love with Jesus, got filled with the holy spirit. And since then I’ve had a burning desire to tell other people about Jesus using social media. I’ve been writing for years blogging everywhere that I can, I wanna tell people about this best friend, this, this God that became human, you know, for us. And I think it’s really important for me. I feel like my, my gifting and my calling and my passion is isn’t just to win them, but I want them to come into a relationship, you know, a passionate relationship with Jesus. So that’s where I, I, I, I’m not, I don’t just wanna have a number of souls to win, but I wanna tell them, do you know, there’s a God that wants to talk to you about things in your life that are personal. So I wanna bring you into, I wanna make it more personable to people. So that’s where my passion came from.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:21):
That’s awesome. Now, you and I met in Orlando, Florida, you were a student at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. What were some of the things that you learned at this intensive bootcamp training for people who have a passion for evangelism?
Sarah Nyanzi (03:42):
Wow. Goodness. There’s so much I can say, but I say I’ll, I think I’ll say the top things. One of the things I learned was again, you, as an evangelist, we have to know the gospel. I mean, we’re gonna share this beautiful thing with people that we preach you. We have to be. So one of the things that the evangelism bootcamp does, and we met so many great teachers like yourself, Daniel is that we really, Daniel Kolenda went into little things about what is the gospel? What is salvation? You know, what all those things. And we, we, it’s almost like he gave us the responsibility of knowing ourselves what these things mean. So that’s that’s, for me, that was the greatest lesson is that I was able to be under a teacher that taught me the gospel and it was a true gospel. So it was good for me because that’s an area that I’m very passionate about. Cause it’s a lot of things out there. So that was the first thing. Another thing that the evangelism.
Sarah Nyanzi (04:43):
Bootcamp taught me is, you know how to consider crusade evangelism. I’ve always had that vision in my heart, but I didn’t know that I could actually do it cause it’s a big task. So what the evangelism bootcamp did for me was to think globally, don’t just try to of quite, of course you can win people. One on one, you can meet, pull in the street and minister them. But how about putting on an event where you can pull in, you know, millions or thousands or hundreds of people at once? So it took the focus away from myself thinking about, oh, I’m gonna be this great evangelist, all of that, the Lord plucked that out. And he gave me the right perspective of why I should become a crusade evangelist. It’s not about me. It’s about Jesus. It’s about him almost. What’s that thing where he it’s like he gets more people all at once. And then the third, the third thing for the Evangel bootcamp that it ingrained in me is serving. I learned how to become a servant. I learned the value, serving someone else’s vision. You know, I’ve been I’ve done the I’ve been on this I guess your oldest might know what the capitalist is, but I’ve done the couples. Yeah. So you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:52):
Did your, your bootcamp initiation in Tanzania. And then you went back to Tanzania to participate de capitalist, which the word de capitalist means 10 cities. It’s a, it’s from the book of Luke and Daniel Kalinda, the, the leader of Christ, all nations has a vision to do multiple crusades, multiple cities at the same time. And, and so I’ve actually had a privilege of participating in two Tanzania de capitalist events. And one time they did five cities. The next time they did six cities. And then you went back for a big event in Darra Salam, which is the capital of Tanzania’s a huge city, but kind of tell me what that outreach looked like in Dar Salam in doing multiple events across the city at the same time.
Sarah Nyanzi (06:43):
Honestly, that’s, that’s probably where I learned how to serve the most. It changed my life. You really see the background work of putting on a crusade. You see how sea fund does. You know, I, I was under, I was in a a district called, called Kimara micro director was Brady. It was three of us, three of the main CFA people. And, you know, I was, it was a, it’s a big responsibility, but that is where if you wanna become an evangelist, if you wanna be, if you want to be trained in that way, then you can put, then it’s okay to be given, to put yourself in a when you’re like, okay, Lord, you’ve given me this responsibility, so I’m gonna do it. It was life changing. First, first and foremost, the people, the relationships that you form with the locals is incredible because I’ll give you an example.
Sarah Nyanzi (07:30):
You know, I had the volunteer comm, I had different committees basically. And one of them came up to me and they were like, we’ve never seen a young per well, we haven’t seen a young person, you know, at your age, serving God like this. I know that wasn’t me. I know that’s the training. That’s the, the thing that God is doing on the inside of me, that people can see it. So you get to build relationships with churches. People get to look at you, they see you, they watch you, the locals watch you. And even that’s a to money. We saw miracles. You know, one of the, one of the miracles I’ll tell you about is this young boy who hadn’t walked in a long time, stood out from his, from the chair when the evangelist Daniel called Tony, sorry, Dennis called him out of his chair and he was walking and I saw those miracles for myself, you know?
Sarah Nyanzi (08:16):
And then another miracle was a member. I’ll give you just another example is there were two nights where my crusade director told me, I need you to be at the back of the crusade with the volunteers. And I was like, I’m gonna miss out on the crusade, but that’s where the heart comes in. That’s where you develop that heart to serve. And yes, maybe on the sea fund posters and the videos, no one knows Sarah ne, but I know I was there and the Lord knows I was there. So for me, I was part of a, a global evangelist winning campaign. And I can get, I can say to the Lord to the best of my ability I served. And I can say, you know, when those numbers are pronounced, you know, I’m sure even you, Daniel, you can testify to this. I can say I’m a part of that. When I hear 50,000 million or 50,000 people got saved, I can say yes. So even though you’re not, you might not be the main preacher, I guess the best thing I can say to those that are interested in joining the safe fund book campus, you might serve someone for a season, someone else’s vision for a season, but it’s worth it. It’ll teach you a lot for your own ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:22):
What a great perspective on servanthood. Jesus said, I did not come to be served, but to serve. Jesus said the greatest in the kingdom is the servant of all. And so it sounds like you’ve really learned that lesson. Now. You’ve seen God move in Africa, but you live in the UK and mm-hmm <affirmative> has given you a heart to reach people in the United Kingdom for Jesus. And you are currently working on putting together an outreach. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> tell me about that. God has put in your heart for the United Kingdom.
Sarah Nyanzi (10:00):
Yeah. so I’ve had this vision for a long time. I got born again, 2012, and the word that came to me, God said, I’ve given you England for your take for the taking. And I, I didn’t know what that meant because I was still new to the whole preaching thing. So I I’ve thought of, but the word for a long time, it wasn’t until November, December, this year, when the Lord told me to put an, a crusade in the UK to assemble a team, to try, you know, win source for him, no matter how small or big cause that was my biggest concern is Lord, what if I can’t, I’m not well known. He said, do it. So that vision is to win people to Jesus. We want to put an, a crusade potentially as time goes on in, in many cities around the UK, we’re gonna start with London.
Sarah Nyanzi (10:48):
And the goal is to preach the gospel, to bring that, you know, that glory that we see in Africa to share it here, to ministry here, to the people in the UK. We want people to come and experience the glory of God. We want people even Christians to be on fire. So this crusade is not only a soul winning project, a soul winning outreach, but it’s also a place where we desire to ignite the churches, to ignite Christians, the perhaps wanna share the gospel, but haven’t yet gotten that confidence. So I wanna encourage those listening if you live in the UK or if you’re not friends, and you can tell them about this event because it’s gonna be life changing and we’re excited to see what God’s gonna do. And another part of that vision is we’re involving Europeans. So if you are someone who is in the fire camps, for example come to this crusade because we are also holding this crusade for you to experience what it’s like to have a crusade in Europe. So you’re welcome.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:53):
You were born in Africa and then mm-hmm <affirmative> you spent a lot of time there in the UK mm-hmm <affirmative> and the dynamics of preaching to people is very different. Let’s just take a moment to compare and contrast. How do you think that UK is, is different than Africa? What, what do you think is the same? What, how do you think we should adjust our method? Preaching the gospel when working in a, a first world nation versus mm-hmm <affirmative> a developing nation.
Sarah Nyanzi (12:27):
Yeah. So I found that’s a really good question. I found when I was, when I was in Africa. And one of the things I found was, you know, because obviously in the UK, there’s different levels of wealth and different levels of poverty or different levels of even perspective. I think in, in westernized countries like Europe and UK, we do have a lot of things to our disposal. For example, in the, when I get sick, I don’t have to have faith to get medicine or to get healing. I can go to my doctor and we have a national health in health service system where we have medicine for free <laugh>. That’s why we pay really high taxes. So there’s a downside to that. But people, I feel like in the, in the, in our, in, in the UK, you know, there’s other reliances now, if you go to Africa, the, the systems are different.
Sarah Nyanzi (13:23):
So faith for some of them, faith is all they’ve got, you know, that’s all they’ve got. So I don’t wanna sound negative. Say people in Africa have faith and people in the UK don’t know people, but it’s just, the reliance is heavily on the spiritual. And therefore you do see that hunger being fulfilled. Whereas in the UK, people think I don’t need faith. I can go and buy myself something to eat or whatever it’s different in the UK. So I found I was number one the reliance in that hope that we as supposed to place in God, has maybe been placed on other things. And another thing that I found is that spiritually there’s just, people feel like they don’t need, they don’t need God. Whereas in the, in Africa, I haven’t really met anyone when I normally maybe I’m yet to meet that person by in Africa, meet people and they know about God, but I think they just wanna, they’re excited that you mean God has sent you for me.
Sarah Nyanzi (14:23):
I’ll give you an example. We were in the villages, we had a crusade in Tanzania. I was chosen along with a few other people to do a town crusade as part of my initiation, which was great, went into this remote remote village. And I told them, Hey, God has sent me here for you, which is true. They were so like, what? That’s incredible. They was so like, no way. And it was, I even, I felt it, that, that, that innocence, that beautiful thing in the UK people would be like, first of all, who is good, and second and foremost, you’re lying. Like the difference of belief is different. So yeah, I think in the UK, even our communication, the way we communicate has to be different as well. So those are some of the challenge are some of the benefits.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:11):
Well, I pray that people in the UK will have the same faith and belief in God as people in Africa. And I really think that God is sending evangelists like you to the UK that are full of fire full of the holy spirit, that will call people to have a trust and faith in Jesus Christ. And so God’s hand is upon you. And I’m so excited about what you’re doing in the UK and, and, and I’d really encourage you, who are listening. If you are in the United Kingdom get involved in what God is doing on my website below the this episode, I’m gonna put a link to where you can go and to support Sarah. And so I’d encourage you to support her and help her in reaching the United Kingdom for Jesus. Sarah, thank you so much for being a guest on the evangelism podcast. God bless you.
Sarah Nyanzi (16:07):
Thank you, Daniel. Thank you guys.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:10):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, our ministry is supported by people like you, who help us go to the nations to preach the gospel. Our goal is every soul. It only costs us an average of about $1 for every person. We’re able to tell about Jesus. And so could you do me a favor, go to my, our website king ministries.com and become a partner with us for as little as $1 a month, you can start to partner with king ministries and help us lead at least one person to Jesus every single month. Imagine for $1, you can start a party in heaven every single month. So right now, go to king ministries.com and partner with us and help us to preach the gospel to those who need to hear the gospel. The most, the least reach people in the world. Also, I’d like to ask you to go to apple podcast and give the evangelism podcast a five star review. Your positive review will help other people find this podcast who are excited about evangelism. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (17:29):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Please Subscribe to the Evangelism Podcast with Evangelism Coach Daniel King
Muslim Man Meets Jesus in Tanzania
In November I preached at a crusade in Kahama, Tanzania. In the crowd there was a young Muslim man named Abdul. He was in training to become a Muslim leader. He spent eight years in a Muslim school in Uganda. Then his family sent him to three years of training at a Muslim school in Pemba, Zanzibar. He spent another year of school in Mombasa, Kenya. Finally, he was awarded a scholarship to a program for teaching Muslim imams in the nation of Oman. He was scheduled to go to Oman in January and when he returned he would be appointed as a sheik (leader) in the Muslim community in Tanzania.
Right before he was scheduled to leave for Oman, Abdul had an encounter with Jesus Christ. The crusade director in Kahama was evangelist Jacob Ebersole. He met Abdul on the street several times before the crusade began and each time he witnessed to him and invited him to the crusade. Jacob said, “About a week before the crusade was going to start, I saw Abdul walking down the road with the biggest smile on his face, and he said ‘Jacob, I want to give my life to Jesus, but if I do I am going to lose my family and friends.’” Jacob explained to him that even if he lost his family, he would gain an army of people who love him. That day, Abdul prayed to receive Jesus.
Abdul attended the crusade and saw the miracles each night. He says, “When they were preaching the Gospel, something happened to my life…something happened to my heart…I didn’t understand…but it was happiness.” By the time the crusade was finished, Abdul was fully convinced that Jesus is the Son of God. He filled out a decision card and received a book about salvation.
Pastor Emmanuel, one of the local pastors, received Abdul’s decision card and followed up with him. Pastor Emmanuel invited Abdul to come to his church and to attend discipleship classes. After attending discipleship classes every night for twenty-one days, Abdul asked to be baptized. Pastor Emmanuel baptized him and gave him a new Christian name as a symbol of his new life in Christ. Abdul’s new name is Elijah.
Abdul Becomes Elijah
When the family of Abdul heard about the baptism, they became angry. They threatened his life. They kicked him out of his home and he lost his job working for a Muslim shopkeeper. The family tried to kidnap him and send him away to a Muslim school. They even went to the police and filed a report saying that he had gone crazy because they thought the only way a Muslim would become a Christian was if he was insane.
Abdul (now Elijah) had nowhere to go so he asked Pastor Emmanuel for help. Pastor Emmanuel made a place for him in his own house. He fed him, gave him clothes, and found him a job. He kept Elijah hidden from the Muslim radicals who were searching for him. Pastor Emmanuel explains, “He is like my son.”
Pastor Emmanuel continued to disciple Elijah. When I returned to Tanzania in June for another crusade I met with both of them. They were helping to organize a crusade in Dodoma. At this crusade, Elijah served as a counselor to pray with new believers. During the altar call, he had the opportunity to pray with three other Muslims who decided to follow Jesus. God is already using Elijah to reach other people who grew up with similar beliefs.
When I met Elijah, I was struck by the huge smile he had on his face. Despite the many challenges that come when someone leaves the religion one is born into, he is full of love for Jesus. He says, “Since I gave my life to Jesus, I am so happy!”
Please pray for Elijah and others like him who need Jesus. Thank you for partnering with us! It is because of your generosity that we are able to make a difference in the lives of people like Elijah.
Help Us Lead People to Jesus
This story is One in a Million! The goal of King Ministries is to lead one million people to Jesus every year. We can not accomplish this goal without your help. Would you give a monthly gift to help us rescue people from hell? Even a gift of $1 a month would be a huge help.
Over the course of our twenty years of ministry, we have found it takes an average cost of $1 for every person we have lead to Jesus. In order to do large evangelistic outreaches, we need to rent a platform, sound system, and advertise the event. Plus we give away thousands of free books and Bibles to help disciple the new believers.
The Bible says that all of heaven rejoices when one sinner gets saved, so for only $1 a month, you can be responsible for starting a party in heaven every single month. Click here to become a monthly partner with us today.
What Do Muslims Think About Jesus?
What are the differences between Islam and Christianity? What do Muslims believe about Jesus? Where can we agree with one another and where do we disagree? Today I speak to a Muslim from Afghanistan and we talk about the Five Pillars of Islam, the Christmas story in the Koran, and about what Muslims really think about Jesus Christ.
Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today. Our ministry is helping Afghan refugees resettle here in the United States. The Afghans need houses, transportation, education, and many other things in order to succeed in this nation. If you want to help an Afghan refugee you can do so by making a donation here.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
What are the differences between Islam and Christianity? What do Muslims believe about Jesus? Where can we agree with one another? And where do we disagree today? I speak to a Muslim from Afghanistan and we talk about the five pillars of Islam, the Christmas story in the Quran, and about what Muslims really think about Jesus Christ. Jesus
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:28):
Said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls in the name of the Lord shall be say, Welcome to the evangelism podcast, Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:02):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And I go to many different Muslim nations around the world and nations that have many Muslims in them. And I always love meeting Muslims. Muslim love me, and I love Muslims. And so often when we go to a different country, I will have a meal with the local imams. We will invite the, the imams from the local mosques together and have a meal together and I’ll sit down and talk with them and they will talk about what they believe as Muslims. And I will talk about what I believe as a Christian, and it’s always a wonderful time of, of, of fellowship and, and talking together. And so today on this podcast I have with me, a friend who happens to be a Muslim. His name is Tayyab, but he’s known as T. He is from the nation of Afghanistan. And if you want to hear the story of how he arrived here in America, you can listen to the previous podcast that we put out yesterday. But Tyab thank you so much for joining me today. Hello, Mr.
Tayyab (02:22):
Daniel King. It’s been and honor to be on this podcast once again.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:26):
Well thank you for, for being here and you are a Muslim, is that true?
Tayyab (02:31):
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:32):
Am Muslim by faith. You’re a Muslim by faith. And so many of the people who are listening to this podcast maybe they don’t really know that much about Muslims or about Islam. Could you just start at the very beginning and kind of tell us, like, what is Islam, what does it mean to be a Muslim? What does the word Islam mean? So
Tayyab (02:53):
As a quick overview of the Islamic faith, the word Islam means peace and Muslims are followers of prophet Mohammed who we believe is the most important individual in our faith. We believe in one, God, our God is a law and the Muslims are okay. Devout Muslim would be known for following the five pillars, pillars of Islam. The first being Profession of Faith (shahada), which is basically saying there is no God with a law and prophet Muhammad, this messenger, the second being Prayer (salat). So, which is prayer. We pray five times a day, third being Alms (zakat), which is arms as in, we give charity to different individuals, people of need at a specific amount of a person’s income and fourth, Pilgrimage (hajj), which is our pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia, in the city of Mecca. We have a house that we believe is a holy place known as Kaaba and a Muslim is required.
Tayyab (03:49):
This pilgrimage throughout his entire life and fifth. And lastly is Fasting (sawm). We have the holy month of Ramadan. That’s a 30 day fast and Muslims try to be the best version of themselves. And just to remind them what is important about life. And we fast from mourn, from sunrise to sunset, and it’s just a spiritual month where we connect with one another and help try to help people around us. And it’s just being a Muslim is just an individual that to meet the principles of Islam as the five pillar of Islam mentioned, it just tries to be a good human being.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:27):
So explain to me the profession of faith it’s there is no God but Allah…
Tayyab (04:36):
Prophet Mohamed is, is his messenger.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:38):
Okay. So kind of explain that and why saying that is what makes you a Muslim? So
Tayyab (04:46):
A, it’s almost like a acceptance of faith. It’s a statement of faith where you say, which means there is no God, it is your acknowledgement of that. There is only one God, and his name is Allah and Moham. It is prophet Mohamed. That is his messenger. As in he’s the individual, the prophet that gifted us with our holy book, which is the Holyoke Quran. And so we believe that prophet Mohamed was gifted with the Holyoke Quran through a period of think 20 years, believe don’t quote me. I might be wrong <laugh> but he was our messenger and he was gifted. The, the holy words that are divine words of God at Mount HIRA through the angel Gabriel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:33):
So how has being Muslim influenced your personal beliefs? Like what does that mean to you on a personal level?
Tayyab (05:42):
On a personal level? Faith has been a fundamental of who I am as an individual. As an Afghan have lived a very unique life per se. It’s been a very difficult life, but I’m grateful for what I have today. And by having faith and being a person of faith, I found purpose in my life purpose in helping other people purpose in following the path that God ha that God has for me finding my purpose within God. And within this life, it’s made life meaningful, made family meaningful, made each interaction meaningful. It’s given me a purpose in my life, Mr. Daniel, and I’m very grateful for faith. It’s a point where I have been able to always return to, to God, no matter what the circumstances have
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:24):
Been. And so how are you doing at being a Muslim? Would you say that you’re a good Muslim? Would, will you go to heaven when you die? That’s
Tayyab (06:34):
An interesting question. The answer for this question, it is up to God. I believe God is a very graceful, loving being, and he cares for all his creations, including me. I believe that he knows my name. He knows my fate. He knows what I do on a daily basis. He knows who I, who I am, what I stand for. He knows the purpose that he has for my life. And I believe that I am trying my best at being a good Muslim. And the actual determination of this response would be up to God himself. Not me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:08):
Let’s talk a little bit about the differences between Islam in Christianity. I’m a Christian. I believe that that G Jesus is God. And Muslims do not believe that they believe that Jesus is a prophet. Yes, sir. And of course in the, the Muslim religion Jesus is known as the prophet Issa. Yes, sir. And, and so let’s begin by kind of talking about kind of where we agree and then we can look at where maybe we, we disagree. Okay. So I think there’s some facts that both the Quran and the Bible can, can agree on. Okay. And the first one is that Jesus was a prophet. Yes. The, the, the Bible, the holy book of Christians mm-hmm, <affirmative> says that Jesus was a prophet. Okay. And also the Quran, the holy book of the mother. Yes, sir. Says that Jesus was a prophet. So on that we can agree. Yes. Jesus was a
Tayyab (08:04):
Prophet and something I would like to point out is we believe that he was one of the most important prophets, the second most important prophet. If I am not incorrect, prophet Muhammad had mentioned it. If I wasn’t the messenger of God, it would’ve been prophet
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:18):
ESA or Jesus in, in, so Muslims because of that would have deep respect and honor for Jesus. Is
Tayyab (08:24):
That we correct? Yes. As a Muslim, this is a statement that will shock almost every single listener to this podcast, but I am Muslim and I love Jesus. I feel like most people don’t understand this, but prophet Jesus is a big, big part of the, of the Muslim faith. And we do love Jesus. We might not believe that he is God, but we believe he was one of the beautiful creations of God. And that we have deep, deep respect for prophet Jesus. And we also believe that during judgment day he will come back and that he will fight the battle during judgment day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:57):
Another area that we can have agreement is that Jesus was born of a Virgin. Yes. Named Mary. Yes. So we find the story in the Bible and the story is also found in the Quran. Another thing we can agree on is that is Jesus performed miracles. Yes. Actually in the Quran, there’s a story of a miracle that Jesus did. That’s not even found in the Bible. But in the Bible, there are many, many stories of what Jesus did about how Jesus healed the blind, the crippled, the lame, they brought so many sick people to Jesus and Jesus touched them in instantly. Yes, they were healed. And, and so the Quran affirms that that Jesus does miracles. Yes. We also can agree that Jesus is coming again. And will judge the dead. You just mentioned that on the, on
Tayyab (09:48):
The judgment date. Yes. One thing I’d like to point out is about the miracles. We do not believe that Jesus himself does the miracles. We believe that it’s a divine in powers of God, himself. That Jesus was just a a medium through which the divine powers of God were
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:01):
Demonstrated. That’s a really interesting distinction as Christians. You know, we believe that Jesus is God. And so, because he is deity, he has the, the ability mm-hmm <affirmative> to, to do miracles. I and so we believe that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, that Jesus is alive today in that Jesus, the one who did miracles 2000 years ago is still alive. We believe that as well is able to do miracles today.
Tayyab (10:30):
We believe that he was also, he’s still alive. Yes. We do believe that as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:33):
Do, do you believe that Jesus can do miracles today for people
Tayyab (10:37):
That I I could not give a pause, a response on that? I, I’m not
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:41):
Sure. I was. I’ve actually had the experience of, of talking about Jesus with, with many Muslims. So one time I was in Pakistan and we had a, a big event, a big festival thousands of people we’re there. And I was talking about Jesus and all the miracles that, that Jesus did. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so at the, the back of the crowd, there was an Imam who came from the local mosque, and he just wanted to see like, kind of what was happening Uhhuh. And so he was standing back there. And on that night, we, we prayed in the name of Jesus. And there was a, a woman who was crippled. She, she couldn’t walk for many years and suddenly she was healed and she stood up and began to run back and forth. And, and Jesus healed me, Jesus healed. And, and she came up on the, the stage and, and she told everyone in the microphone, Jesus says, I’m Muslim, but tonight I was healed.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:34):
And she says, you preached about Jesus. And, and I was healed. And so the IAM, he heard out it, or, I mean, he was standing in the back of the crowd and he was so excited about what happened. The next day was Friday. He went to the mosque and he at the mosque, he told all the Muslims that were there. He said, go to the festival. He said, and Jesus is healing people there. He says, go, and Jesus will touch you. And so many of them came and many of them were touched by Jesus. It was really amazing.
Tayyab (12:01):
I am not gonna disagree with this, but it’s just a point that I would like to, I’m very hesitant by nature to believe things like this. Yeah. Everyth think is like, I try to keep it as genuine and honest as possible is sure.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:17):
Why are you hesitant to
Tayyab (12:18):
No, no. A good way to say it is things like this can be easily performed and mm-hmm, <affirmative> people are easily deceived. Let’s just keep it at that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:27):
And it’s easy. Are you saying that as a Muslim or from a, a scientific, modern viewpoint, that miracles are
Tayyab (12:34):
Difficult to happen? Not as a scientific viewpoint or as a Muslim, but more of a, the entire occurrence that an individual can get healed through an event and then starts preaching for a specific faith. It just sounds like a as a propaganda sorts, if that makes sense, I’m trying to be respectful about it as well, but it’s just something that human beings are very easily swayed in a direction. And they see something immediately where they cannot understand, or like in the past we could not understand magic, but we understand like the concept of sight of hand today. Sure.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:07):
If, you know, I think that would be kind of approaching it from a scientific viewpoint of demanding evidence of whether it’s
Tayyab (13:13):
True or not, not a scientific viewpoint, more of a, something can be made to look a certain way. If we want to look at a certain way mm-hmm <affirmative> and people are easy to be deceived.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:23):
Okay. Well, thank you for your honesty. The, the fifth and final thing that, that I find in both the, the Bible and the Quran is that Jesus was, was strengthened by the holy spirit. But I think it would actually be interesting to kind of show some of what the Bible says about Jesus, the prophet and what the Quran says about Jesus, the prophet. And so I would actually like to read a story I’ll read it first from the Bible mm-hmm <affirmative> and then let’s find it in the Quran. And if you would like to, to read it from the Quran. Yes. And this is the story of how Jesus was born. It’s a very important story in Christianity. In fact Christmas, which, which just celebrated yes. Is celebrating the miraculous conception and birth of Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:24):
And so at Christmas time, this year, we had a large group of Afghans that came over. Yes. all Muslim and to celebrate the Christmas story. We first read the Christmas story in the Bible, the Christian Bible, and then we read it in the, the Muslim Quran. So the story is found in the book of Luke chapter one, verse 26. It says in the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth a town in Galilee to a Virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The Virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, greetings you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you. Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angels said to her, do not be afraid.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:17):
Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son and you are to give him the name. Jesus. He will be great and will be called the son of the most high the Lord. God will give him the throne of a, his father, David. And he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end. How can this be? Mary asked the angel, since I am a version, the angel answered the holy spirit will come upon you. And the power of the most high will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the son of God, E and Elizabeth. Your relative is going to have a child in her old age. And she, who was said to be barren is in her six month for nothing is impossible with God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:01):
I am the Lord’s servant. Mary answered. May it be to me, as you have said, and then the angel left her. And so there’s several things in that passage that Muslims could agree with. There’s, there’s one important thing in that passage that Muslims would not agree with. Yes. Where the angel says that he will be called the son of the most high. Yes. and so Muslims don’t agree that Jesus is the son of God, but we’ll talk about that in just a second. Let, lets start with at least where there’s agreement understand. And so can you find this in the, the Quran it’s in? Sir, how do you say it, sir, sir.
Tayyab (16:41):
So it ISS number three, number three and is number 42. Okay. And before begin resign the holy Quran, we say, I, it is something we say before reciting the whole, what, what does that mean? I’m beginning in the name of aah, basically, which that what it means behold, the Christians, the angel said, oh, Mary aah has chosen you and purified. You chosen you above the women of all nations. Oh, Mary worship, your Lord divide, prostate yourself and bow down in prayer with those who bow down. This is part of the TIS of the things unseen, which we reveal unto you own messenger by inspiration. You are not with them when they cast lots of arrows as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary or were you with them when they disputed the point behold, the angels set, oh, Mary Allah gives you glad TIS of a word from him.
Tayyab (17:44):
His name will be Christ. Jesus. The son of Mary held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of the company of those nearest to a law. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be of the company of the righteous. She said, oh my Lord, how shall I have a son with no, when no man has touched me. He said, even so a law creates what he wills when he has decreed a plan. He but says to it B and it is, and a law will teach him the book on book and wisdom, the law and the gospel. Something before we move on is a key thing point out is during translation specific words can be interpreted in a specific way or can be added and equal removed depending on the translation of the language. I would say the best version to read the Holyoke Quran is in Arabic itself because,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:46):
And so do you read the Quran in Arabic? I do. Yes. But and, and do you understand Arabic, like, do you speak Arabic? Arabic
Tayyab (18:53):
Is a language that I’m not proficient in personally myself. The holy Quran is lit written in classical Arabic, which is one of the forms of Arabic, very complicated version of Arabic. Most people even Arabs today cannot speak that language. But what I’m mentioning is no matter how much we try to get the best translation of a holy scripture the other language falls short, and we have humans that are able to change or manipulate the language as they will to make it seem a certain way. So it’s best to just read the language in the language that it was, it was presented and try to understand it from the different interpretations from different individuals.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:31):
Yeah. The old Testament was written in Hebrew and the new Testament was written in Greek. And so I actually studied both Greek and Hebrew to be able to read the scriptures in the, the original languages. And I, I heard that that Muslims believe that the, the Arabic of the Quran is the most beautiful sound that has ever yes. Been said, is that true?
Tayyab (19:57):
I would say it is one of the, be most beautiful languages, if not the most beautiful language in the world. Classical Arabic, it gives peace to my heart when I listen to it, something that for example, this is a call to prayer. The haz is when they, the mosques, when they call you to prayer during five times a day, it is a very beautiful song of sorts. It’s a melody calling you to come pray in the house of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:21):
Can you sing it?
Tayyab (20:22):
I will not sing it for you now.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:24):
<Laugh>, I’ve heard it many times in different nations and they always get on a loud speaker and, and sing it sometimes very loud early in the morning. It wakes everyone up.
Tayyab (20:35):
If I sing it, I think most people will just
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:38):
See, this is not so beautiful.
Tayyab (20:41):
<Laugh>, they’ll go deaf on the podcast. You’ll be like, what is this?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:44):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Okay. So let’s, let’s talk about some things that Christianity and Islam do not agree on. So understand the first thing that, that Christians believe really the fundamental thing that we believe in our faith is that that Jesus is God. What do you, as a Muslim think when you hear someone say that this is
Tayyab (21:06):
God. I mean, number one, as Muslims, we’re taught to respect every other religion and not to make fun of it or do things that would be Blas for the other faith. So we, first of all, we respect it and respected individuals. Thank
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:21):
You for your respect. And, and in turn, I respect you and, and your
Tayyab (21:25):
Faith. And like we mentioned earlier as a Muslim, I love Jesus. He was the second most important prophet in our faith. So when you mention that Jesus is a son of God is a point of disagreement. We believe that Jesus was a prophet of God and that he was a very unique creation birth of a Virgin Mary, but he is not the son of God. We believe there’s one, God, he has no re relatives. You guys know sons or daughters. And we view humans as creations of God. Not, not, not sons of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:55):
So when you hear the term, son of God, what do you think of? I, I, I heard I, I spoke to one Muslim and, and he told me that this was actually very offensive to him cuz when he heard son of God, what he was thinking was that God literally came down and had sex with the, the Virgin. Mary is, is that what is people think when they hear the son of God? No, because that’s not really what Christians mean when they say son of God, they’re not thinking that
Tayyab (22:26):
I understand I, that individual that you spoke to was just uninformed. Let’s put it out that way and does not represent the rest of the Muslim community and their view on this topic. But as in the topic of having a son of God is just, you guys still believe Christians believe that the Christ that Jesus was God, and then there’s a Trinity, right? There’s Jesus there’s as far. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:48):
We haven’t gotten to the Trinity yet. That’s gonna be number four. Okay. But yeah, we believe that, that you have God, the father, God, the son, God, the holy spirit. Three in one there’s still one God. Yes sir. Yes sir. You know, in, in the, the Hebrew religion, the Jews, they believe that that God is one. And so Christians also believe God is one. But within that, we, we believe that there are three unique individuals in that called
Tayyab (23:15):
The Trinity. So when you mention the son of God, it just is something that I disagree with because it’s a part of a Trinity. And that is what it goes back to. That is a concept I disagree with.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:27):
Okay. Another foundational belief of Christian entity is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. The Bible says that all have sinned. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> that the price for sin is death. Okay. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. And so the Bible says that for God. So love the world that he gave. His only son mm-hmm <affirmative> that whoever would believe in him would not perish, but would have everlasting life. So we believe that that Jesus died on the cross. He was a perfect sacrifice. He never sin. He died on the cross to pay the price for our sins, but he didn’t stay dead. After three days, Jesus rose from the dead. And today Jesus is alive and everyone who calls on Jesus can be saved. And so when, when you hear someone say that, that Jesus died on the cross, do you agree with that? Or, or you disagree? We disagree with that as well. And so what was your perspective of, of what happened? We
Tayyab (24:20):
Believe that Jesus was rescued by God. Okay. And that he was not crucified on the cross. We
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:26):
Do believe so. It looked like he was crucified, but he didn’t really die.
Tayyab (24:28):
He was not crucified on the cross. Okay. Yes. We believe that he was rescued by God and that he will come back. He’s alive today. He’s in heaven right now. And he’ll come back on. So did
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:37):
Jesus die or not die? He never died. He never died. He just went to heaven. God took him.
Tayyab (24:42):
God. Yes, exactly. God rescued Jesus from
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:45):
He’s alive in heaven. Yes sir.
Tayyab (24:47):
Yes, sir. We believe that Jesus is alive in heaven and during judgment day he will come back and that it, it is a big, big part of our Islamic faith where like, as again, it is a huge honor and it shows how much love that we have for this prophet because God shows him as the individual to, to rescue and then bring back on judgment day to fight for Muslims. Again, we love Jesus. He is a big, big, big part of our faith.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:14):
So another thing that we would disagree on is that that Christians believe that that Jesus should be worshiped since he’s God. We worship him. We pray in the name of Jesus. We pray to Jesus because we believe he’s deity. He’s part of, of the Godhead. What do, what do Muslims believe? Should Jesus be worshiped or not?
Tayyab (25:35):
No, we do not believe that Jesus should be worshiped again. We, we view him as a human being. He was a human being. He was a prophet of God, but in, in his truest essence, we believe he was human. And that’s why prophet Mohammed is a very, very prominent part of prophet of Islam as well during his time when he introduced Islam to the rest of the world. And he did miracles again through the divine powers of God, it wasn’t miracles that he was channeling within himself when he died at the age of 60, roughly around that it proved to humans and to Muslims throughout the world, that it wasn’t prophet Mohamed doing this amazing powers. He wasn’t God. He was a merely human being, a messenger of God. The one only God. And he was a messenger and everyone before him was human and they were just prophets of God, specific individuals that chosen individuals or prophets of God, they’re human by nature.
Tayyab (26:31):
And as per Muhammad, when he died, it showed to us as in humans and Muslims and Muslims throughout the world, it was, Hey, remember that this individual was not your God. He was a human and that he passed away, but he gave the entire world the gift of Islam. And that’s what makes him special for us as human as, as Muslims. That’s why he’s the, the figure of Islam. When you think about Islam, think about prophet Mohammed, because he gifted us with the gift of the Holyoke Quran and that’s the fundamentals of what we follow as Muslims.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:05):
And then the, the final thing we already talked about a little bit is, is the Trinity. We Christians believe God, the father, God, the son, God, the holy spirit. What do Muslims think when they hear a Christian talk about the Trinity
Tayyab (27:21):
Again, in the beginning, we respect that. The fact that is a huge part of their belief. But we do, we disagree on this point because we do not believe that there is a, a father and a son and a holy spirit. We believe there’s one, God, one complete God. I understand that Trinity supports the existence of one God, but there’s, I wanna say parts to this one, God, but like Jesus is God. According to the Christian faith, and then you have father, who’s also God, and then you have the holy spirit. Who’s also God. And together they’re also God, but there’s one God. Right? But that’s right. Yeah. For the Muslim faith, there is just, it’s a simplified version of it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, there’s one God, a lot. We do not have the father, the son or the holy spirit. There is just one God, most complete, most magnificent, most loving most, most would you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:07):
Consider it? Bla for me to talk about there being God, the son, God, the holy spirit
Tayyab (28:14):
I would in my own opinion, again, it would, it would not be bla for me because it is your own faith and you follow your own faith and you, if you found perfect purpose in your own faith, you’ve every right to believe of what you, what you’re believing. That’s a big, big part of understanding. Religion in general is people try to find purpose in their faith. And when they do, we might disagree at certain points. But overall at a fundamental standpoint, religion was to make sure that people of have purpose in life and they’re good human beings. There’s incentive behind it. We might in my, we worship. We all worship the same. God. If you call him Jesus, if you call him father, if you call him a law, if you call him Buddha, whatever you follow in a humanistic level, we all worship the same. God. There is a higher being that gives us purpose in life.
Tayyab (29:01):
You see, we can easily divide ourselves based on different categories, faith cast, social class, but at the end of the day, Mr. Daniel King, we’re humans and we find purpose in different things based on our different situations. And if you’re a good person because of your faith, you’re a good person. Regardless if you’re, if for a Muslim, you’re a good person. If you’re a good person and for a Christian, you’re a good person. You’re a good person. I personally have to, to know you, you asked me what is your opinion on Christians? And I said, my perspective on Christians are people like yourself or your father or your sisters or your family. They represent the Christian faith for me. They represent America for me. And I, and I would say that you are an excellent ambassador of your faith for the rest of the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:53):
Well thank you for saying that. Thank you. I have one final question for you. You know, you talk about good deeds and, and bad deeds in Islam. If you have more good deeds than bad deeds, then you can spend eternity in heaven. Did I express that right?
Tayyab (30:18):
To a certain extent? Yes but no.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:20):
Okay. Explain the, that concept to be
Tayyab (30:23):
In Islam. The, the good deeds are promoted because you want to help the creations of God. And there’s bad deeds that aren’t discouraged. But if you have like God has made us humans, sinful by nature. And the concept of repentance is very, very critical in Islam. See, when you repent, when you repent wholeheartedly to God, God forgives all your sins, all your mistakes. It takes one moment, one pure deed, good deed out of your heart. Or just one moment of just being vulnerable to God. And God is so loving. So merciful. So caring. So forgiving that it is not, it’s not about quantity, Mr. King. It’s not. It’s about quality. See, he cares when you, when you surrender yourself to him, when you care about him, when that one moment of just being vulnerable and honest and asking for forgiveness from God, he forgives all your sins. Again, he’s very loving, very caring, very, very, it’s just an amazing, beautiful God. It’s not about quantity. As long as you’re, you try to be a person of God, you follow his faith, you follow his rules, you love his creations. You love him. And because of that, you love everything else. He, he, he has, he will. He will. I I’m. I’m sure of it that he will take us to heaven.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:49):
See Christians believe that everyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved. And so all of us, no matter how many good deeds that we’ve done, we are imperfect. And since God is perfect, if you have just committed one sin, you are not qualified in to, to be in God’s presence and trying to get to heaven through our own merit or through our own ability of all the, the good deeds that we have is, is impossible. And it’s it. It’s like if you imagine a cliff and you’re going to try to jump from one side of the grand canyon to the other side, and if you are overweight and have lots of body fat and, and you eat a donut and then Huff and puff and, and run and jump, as far as you, can you jump like one foot and then you fall to the bottom and you die.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:49):
Well, an Olympic runner who is really fast and good at jumping and, and is the fastest farthest jumping person in the whole world. And he gets a good running start. He’s at the peak of his condition. He runs as fast. He can jumps off the edge of the cliff. He can jump like 30 feet, you know, 10 meters out from the side of the cliff mm-hmm <affirmative>, but then he falls down to the bottom and he lands in the same place as the, the overweight man, because through our own ability, we can’t do it. Like we, we need help. And, and Christians believe that that help comes from Jesus. And Jesus said, I am the way the truth in the life. No one comes to God, the father except through me, mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so we believe that that at the judgment seat, that Jesus will judge us and Muslims also believe that that the day of judgment is coming and Jesus will judge us. And so I, I guess my final question for you,
Tayyab (33:45):
We do not believe that Jesus will
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:46):
Judge us or that Jesus will.
Tayyab (33:49):
What do you believe? So he will come back on the judgment day. Yes. Okay. And that he will fight a battle for, for against basically he’ll fight a battle for Muslim sets and he’ll come back in a, of fight for what is right. We do not believe that once again, he, we believe that he’s human in the prophet of God. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, he doesn’t have the right to judge us. He’s not God, in, in our beliefs only God can judge us. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:12):
So God will judge us, but Jesus will be there at the day of
Tayyab (34:16):
Judgment. Yes, he will. Yes. And once again, we, we also believe as most that we are sinful by nature. The only weekend we can go to heaven is through the mercy and forgiveness of God. That’s why I mentioned the importance of repentance, because God has to forgive us to make, to allow us to go to heaven. We are sinful. God has made us this way, but because we are sinful, we have free will we, of the ability to, to, to when nothing else is working on, everything seems like it’s out of the world, like out of your re the entire world is out of your reach and all your goals and dreams are beyond you. Like, for example, in my, in my life where I had to go back to God, when nothing else was working out to, to get safety and to pray for myself and my family, I found purpose in God. I found hope God. And I believe personally that I, because, because I love God because I care for him. And because of that, I, I, I, I, because of his amazingness, I believe in him that I, I, I will also in the future. I’m hopeful that I might, if I’m, if I’m good enough, I’ll go to heaven.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:20):
And so what, what response do you think that God will give to you on that day of judgment?
Tayyab (35:30):
That’s a question that I wish I knew the answer to 22 years ago, but today we are still, we’re trying to find out it’s, it’s, it’s a divine question. Like we asked.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:40):
And so you leave it in the hands of
Tayyab (35:42):
ALA. Yes. And like, if we can, at, we can ask a lot of things about life, you know, questions that we not never get the answers to. Like, how does God look like? Or how do we know, okay, okay. Why isn’t God doing this? Or why is this like this? Or what is, is good and what is right. See, these are questions that we might never know the answer to, or how, like how many species are there in the universe. It’s like things that humans don’t know yet, but God knows everything. And just like this question about my life and my future, if I’m gonna heaven or hell, I’ve trusted it upon God, because I love God. And I’m, I’m sure he loves me as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:16):
Well, I believe he does love you. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast with me. I think some of your answers will really help people to understand Islam more. So, so thank you so much for your insight. I
Tayyab (36:31):
Appreciate it. Thank you for having me on this podcast. It’s been an absolute pleasure. And once again out wanna give my greatest of gratitude from Mr. Daniel and the rest of his family for making us feel at home at safe here in the us. And just make sure that you take care of one, another guys, humans. We are social beings and we need each other and we find purpose and faith. And sometimes we’re reminded of the beauty of faith through one another. Just make sure you help one another byebye. Thank
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:58):
You time. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today, our ministry is helping Afghan refugees resettle here in the United States. The Afghans need houses, transportation, education, and many other things in order to succeed in this nation. If you want to help an Afghan refugee, you can do by making a donation@wwwdotkingministries.com. Thank you so much for your generosity and thank you for helping us to help these beautiful Afghan people who have come to our nation
Evangelism Podcast Host (37:33):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide event. Evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Please Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast Today, with Evangelist Daniel King.
Escape from Afghanistan
When the Taliban took over Afghanistan, many Afghans were forced to flee for their lives. Thousands of Afghans crowded around the Kabul airport and begged to be evacuated. Only a few were allowed to leave. Today you will hear the heart breaking story of one refugee that we were able to help escape from Afghanistan.
Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today. Our ministry is helping Afghan refugees resettle here in the United States. The Afghans need houses, transportation, education, and many other things in order to succeed in this nation. If you want to help an Afghan refugee you can do so by making a donation here.
Transcript:
Daniel King (00:00):
When the Taliban took over Afghanistan, many Afghans were forced to flee for their lives. Thousands of Afghans crowded around the cobble airport and begged to be evacuated. Only a few were allowed to leave today. You’ll hear the heartbreaking story of one refugee that we were a able to help escape from Afghanistan.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:24):
Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be say, welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interview full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Danielle King.
Daniel King (01:00):
Welcome to the podcast. My name is Daniel King and today I have a special guest with me from the nation of Afghanistan. Thank you for joining me.
Tayyab (01:10):
Hello? Hello, Ms. Daniel King. My name is Tayyab. My friends call me T and it’s been a pleasure to be on this podcast.
Daniel King (01:16):
Well, thank you so much for being here with me. My family has Afghanistan for many years. My grandparents actually worked in Afghanistan back in the 1950s, and my mother was born in cobble Afghanistan. And so she has grown up loving Afghanistan. She actually lived there until she was eight years old. And when I was a kid, I remember my mom used to talk about Afghanistan all the time. We would pray for the people of Afghanistan every single day. We would be praying for Afghanistan, even back then. People didn’t even know where Afghanistan was on the map, but we knew because my mom loved Afghanistan so much. And then 12 years ago, my father and mother moved to the of Afghanistan and began to work there. And one of the things that they did was to, to start a, a school. And you actually were at the school. Can you tell me a little bit about
Tayyab (02:15):
That? Yes. It was quite a big, big pleasure to work with Mr. And Mrs. King, who were your parents? They had founded the school and it was a school that gave me a world of new opportunities as a young teenager who was trying to pursue education with all the other doors being locked. Mr. King was one of the divine gifts that I received in Afghanistan with his family by giving me a job opportunity as a teacher, I was able to serve and help people while simultaneously, simultaneously helping myself by pursuing my gift of education. And that was through an online medium. So I’m very, very thankful to have been gifted that opportunity to help people from individuals with ADHD, to just normal, everyday Afghans that were just wanting and were very loved. The gift of education. I just wanted to be a part of that movement with the Bahar movement. How did
Daniel King (03:04):
You originally meet my parents?
Tayyab (03:07):
I was part of a, an American school funded by U S a I D in Cobal Afghanistan by the name of the international school of Kabal and the staff was predominantly foreigners and Mr. And Mrs. King were one of the parents of a teacher by the name of Mr. Mr.
Daniel King (03:23):
David King, Mr. David was a teacher there. Yes. And then he actually married a girl who was an art teacher at the school. Her name is Leslie. And so now David and Leslie live in chiro Egypt mm-hmm <affirmative> and they, they teach at
Tayyab (03:37):
A school there. Yes. And I’m, I was very, very surprised, but very, very happy for the two of them, cuz they were just an amazing match of very good people. Miss Listly is an amazing, amazing human being. And so is Mr. Mr. David K
Daniel King (03:48):
A great, great, great. I can see he was a great friend of yours. Okay. So my parents were, were there in Afghanistan. They, they had this school many different students came to the school and you were, were one of the teachers. My mother actually died and went to heaven in April. And so she was loved by many of the Afghan people. What are some memories that you have of my mother? How, how did she impact your life? Well, first
Tayyab (04:15):
Of all Mrs. King was an amazing human being. And I know personally in my heart that she is in heaven. And one of my great memories from Mrs. King is when, at the end of the school days, when all the students would be gathered in the hallway, Mrs. King would help say the Bahar Moto, which was Bahar is our school. Bahar is a new beginning. Bahar is excellent and Bahar is fun. And she would say in a he huge amount of energy every single time. And we would feel just welcomed around her, just whenever I needed her help with transferring money from my, from my academic work or anything along those lines or buying textbooks online, she was always there to help and serve my people and just humanity in general. And I feel like us here coming to the states has been Mr. King’s way of just appreciating and honoring miss Mrs. King’s passing and her love from my people. And so Mrs. King, she might not know it, but just me being here in there in here in the states is because of her. And I truly did love her from the bottom of my heart. And I know she is in peace and she’s in heaven right now.
Daniel King (05:18):
Yeah. My mother was a great woman. I, I think everything that I know came because of her love for God and her love for people. And then her love for me as a, as a son. And I was so proud of both of my parents working in Afghanistan, sometimes very dangerous situations, but my mom and dad were there because they, they loved the people of AF Afghanistan. So in August a great tragedy happened in Afghanistan. Yes. The, the Taliban government began to take over Afghanistan and then on August 15th, the they officially took over the, the city of cobble and because of the, the Taliban strictness, a lot of people wanted to get out of Afghanistan. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And, and so tell me a little bit about why people were maybe scared of, of the Taliban, why they didn’t wanna stay there in Afghanistan under the Taliban.
Tayyab (06:20):
This was not the first time that Taliban had taken control over Afghanistan. This was an occurrence that happened within two decades, two, two decades ago, Taliban had come and now it was just their coming again. And so people had seen the principles that they believed in. They’re very tyrannical individuals that follow extremely conservative laws in the, in the name of their faith. And I personally do not believe that there are people of their faith because I am personally a Muslim and that the principles that they follow is not in a accordance to the Muslim faith. So things that they would do is just like prevent women from pursuing education. Just day to day free will was taken away basically from people because people had to follow very strict rules on a daily basis religious rules, or just some random social norms, like not being able to even interact with people of the other gender women not being allowed to go to work things that were just absolutely out of the ordinary. And people did not see lives continuing in this path because they, they had realized what their rights are and they’re willing to fight for them. So everybody wanted to get out the country until this place was safe once again.
Daniel King (07:28):
And so you wanted to escape from Afghanistan. I think that the, the fall of Afghanistan happened very quickly. Like no one thought that the tele on would take over so quickly, certainly here in the United States, everyone thought that that the Taliban maybe would fight in the Southern provinces mm-hmm <affirmative>, but when they began to take over cobble, yeah. Suddenly everyone became very concerned and everyone saw on the news, there were airplanes taking off and people were actually hanging onto the outs side of the airplane and fall off the airplane. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and thousands of people rushed the airport, just trying to get on any airplane in order to leave. And, and really the whole situation was extremely chaotic, a great tragedy. Many people were hurt and some people were even killed. And you were there right in the of it. Tell me about what
Tayyab (08:21):
Happened. So three weeks before the actual coming of the Taliban, we saw it happening. It was becoming a reality on a daily basis. We saw it becoming a reality two years ago, but we never saw it as an actually happening. We, we had hope we had hope, but three weeks before the 31st of August, the fall of the Afghan government provinces start falling on a daily basis. And every single day we heard another province had fall. Another province had fallen. And before we knew within three weeks, the capital was in, in risk of falling to the terrorists. And we were, we were hopeful that our government would make a last effort to protect our people and the government, but that’s not what happened. They surrendered the entire country on the 31st of August. And that was the most difficult day of our lives because we saw our country, a country that we had fought for for the peace of, for the last two decades to new coming of our country, for peace in our country.
Tayyab (09:16):
We saw it fall. As a matter of fact, I, I was part of a protest that I was leading just the week before the fall of cobble, where I let 20,000 people streaming and chanting just for a better Afghanistan, just hail Afghanistan or God help Afghanistan. And it was my way of just fighting from my country when nobody else believed in, in my country, it did not make a difference. Within a week. My country had fallen. We had terrorists in our doorstep and there were specifically threatening multiple individuals that had worked with foreigners, myself included, and was fortunate enough to get out of the country. And I tried various ways, but all my personal mediums of trying to get out Afghanistan, such as applying for visas and scholarships online, none of them were fruitful. And so the only medium which was left left was my faith.
Tayyab (10:06):
And I am a person of faith, I believe in God. And that I just sat down. I put my prayer mat on the ground and I pray towards God like, God, Hey, I’m sorry. I’m not the best of your creations. I know I need your help once in a while. And today is one of those days, I request that you use your divine powers to help ring me out of this country, because I believe that you’re great. And if you believe my purpose out of this country, so I can serve your people out of here and to become a better version of myself and eventually come back in this country and serve my people, please help me get out. And within the next day or so I go had a call from Mr. Robert King, your father and he informed me that there’s a one, a million chance, basically that we’re able to evacuate Afghans from the cobble airport.
Tayyab (10:46):
And he told me to get my stuff packed up and head towards the airport. And so the next morning at seven o’clock and got another phone call from Mr. King. And he said, head towards the airport. There’s other fellow friends of ours there on this institution from Bahar. So I get down from the car, it’s a half an hour, right to the airport. And I see 10,000 people in line stiff together, stuck together. And there wasn’t even room to get in line. Everybody was unable to sit down, move, move around, do whatever. And I saw some famili, a familiar face in this. And so it was one of our fellow teachers. And so we decided to believe, we decided to believe that that God has our purpose beyond this area and there’s difficulties and challenges here, but we can push through. So there was three checkpoints, the first two checkpoints being terrorist checkpoints, and the third being a international forces at that point, British forces checkpoint.
Tayyab (11:36):
So it took us two days, two full days, 48 hours standing and getting beat, getting pushed around, getting hit, getting whipped, but we still believed we still believed we pushed through the first checkpoint within 12 hours or so the next checkpoint again, behind 5,000 people, another 24 hours or so within the second checkpoint. And a third checkpoint took us like eight, 10 hours, this in a cramped up area, the size of a, a shipping container stuffed in 200 people, basically all of us trying to just tell the soldiers to help us get out. And we just told to wait. And, and so we waited and we sat down and we just, we, we were continuing to believe. We continued to believe. And eventually Mr. King had, and Mrs. King Ms. Esther king, who is your sister had was able to get in touch with individuals inside the airport.
Tayyab (12:25):
And they were able to send us a, a team of five seals and help evacuate us. And we did not have papers. We not have anything that made us a proper candidate to get out of the country, but God’s purpose for us was beyond our country at that point in time. And so we believed, and once again, we believed and we got past the checkpoints. We stood in line behind a thousand people to get on a plane. We got on a plane for a cargo plane where 600 people were stuffed inside the cargo, but we still with the difficulties. We still believed we still got through. And we got a full flight to Qatar, Germany, where Qatar to Qatar. And then from Qatar, we were at Qatar for overnight. Unfortunately there was no beds available for me and my friends, but we slept on the ground. I slept on, on concrete, but the fact that I was safe and that there was a process underway, I believed, I believe, and we all believe we still kept pushing. Next morning, we got a fly to Germany. We stayed in Germany for eight days. K started in Germany where there was an American army base. Unfortunately, the conditions there weren’t the best especially when it came to food and just facilities that were available there. I personally lost eight pounds within eight days, but <affirmative>,
Daniel King (13:35):
I’m glad that they helped because the food was not the food sufficient.
Tayyab (13:38):
Yeah. They did not give us food. They starved us to, to keep it candid
Daniel King (13:42):
And on the cargo plane there, there’s just it open there’s no seat seats.
Tayyab (13:47):
No, no seats whatsoever. Just like I mentioned, it’s just a cargo plane for moving vehicles and tanks and stuff. There’s stuffed in us in inside a cargo plane with 600 of people, but we’re refugees. We understood that. That’s a part of the process, I guess. And so after Germany, which took eight days, eventually we were able to get out Germany. We got a flight to Washington DC, which is a transit flight, a transit flight. And from DC, we got to New Mexico to another flight where we stayed in a refugee base. And you went
Daniel King (14:14):
To Fort yes. There in New Mexico, right? With El Paso and, and New Mexico border. And what’s really interesting is that my family had actually lived in El Paso for 20 years. And my sister melody was there. And she greeted you at the refugee camp there. Yes. In New Mexico. And, and so it’s really a may my, my father and I were here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, we were on the phone trying to do everything we could to help you. And the other teachers from the school get out. And even some of the students, yes. We knew that your lives were potentially in danger. And so my, my father was calling every person. He knew mm-hmm, <affirmative> trying to make contacts with the, the United States state department with the, the different entities within the state department. My sister Esther is actually running for Congress in the 17th district of Illinois.
Daniel King (15:15):
And so, because she’s running for Congress, she knows lots of politicians. Yes. And so she was on the phone talking to various senators and Congress people asking them, what can you do to help these Africans? These are friends of my family. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> their lives and are in danger. If they stay there are going to be killed. And, and my sister Esther is also in the military reserves, the army reserves. Yes. And, and so she was actually had some friends that were military there at the airport in cobble and was able to call them and, and, and we were doing everything we could to help you, but like the first day, nothing worked second day, nothing worked by the third day, we were desperate. We, we also were praying and saying, God help us. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> help these Afghans that, that my mother cared so much about. And we really think that it is a huge miracle that God helped you. It is to, to rescue you. And it, it is because God, as a purpose and a plan for your life, that that’s greater than yourself, that, you know, God has something great for you to do in life. And I think it’s just so traumatic what everyone who got out went through, like, what were you feeling in the midst of that? What was going through your head?
Tayyab (16:35):
This is an interesting question. And the answer, the, the initial answer would be, I was feeling that there is hope, hope for me to, to get to a, a level of safety and hope for my friends and my my family members, that there was still hope with than me. But the most overwhelming feeling was fear. You see fear, Mr. Daniel King fear is very powerful. It drives us to get for survival, but it also silences emotions. See, we saw people get killed in front of us. We were shot at, we were beaten. We felt no pain at that point in fi in time, we did not feel any mental impact. You’re not psychologically impacted immediately. We did not break down. We had one goal which was to get freedom. So fear pushed us fear, motivated us, fear, silenced everything. We didn’t care about the people beside us. At that point in time, we cared about our own lives. At that point in time, It just pushed us to a biological instinct, which reminds you to focus on yourself and survive no matter what, it was very, very upsetting. It was took a while for me to process all of this. When I got to safety, that it’s okay to not be afraid anymore, that I was safe. It’s the biggest gift that America has given me.
Daniel King (18:17):
I’m very grateful that America is welcoming so many Afghans with open arms. There, there are some here that maybe are scared of people from another culture or another religion, even different language group. But here in Oklahoma the governor has opened his arms and invited refugees to come. And so here in Tulsa there are scheduled to be 800. Yes, Afghan refugees who will be living here in Tulsa. And our family is delighted because we used to have to travel all the way across the world to meet Afghans. Now we can have good Afghan food right here in Tulsa, because God has brought Afghans who can cook Afghan food to us, you know? And so we’re, we’re super delighted. And, and, and so far, I think Oklahoma has really welcomed Afghan refugees. How have you been received since you arrived here in America?
Tayyab (19:26):
I have been received with open arms. I love the American people. I love them, truly people of Tulsa, <affirmative> Oklahoma in general, but specif Tulsa have been very, very, very welcoming. We’ve felt like we’re safe that we’re with family. They’ve checked up on us. They’ve made sure that EV every one of our needs are met. If it’s psychological, if it’s physical or just necessary food WiFi’s the smallest things like that. They’ve made sure that we are taken care of. They’ve also let us know that they can be a listening ear. If they need help, if we need help to process something, they will help us work through that. They’ve welcomed us to events. They’ve welcomed, welcomed us to their culture and have also also made us feel like proud of our own culture. Like we have never felt like we, we were unwelcome. We’ve never felt were we were different. We’ve just felt like we were, we were special in a positive light that we were friends from afar brothers and sisters from afar that were just back home, that we were, that we were welcomed. And as soon as we, we met people from different churches, different organizations, and each and every single one of them played a huge role. If it was praying for us, if it was monetary assistance, if it was just remembering us in their thoughts, that all mattered, we felt safe here. We felt welcomed.
Daniel King (20:44):
So what comes next for you now here? What are your hopes and your plans, your dreams for the future
Tayyab (20:52):
After coming to America and going through all of this? This is very difficult journey in my life. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve realized my purpose in life with my set of unique skills. I feel like God has a huge purpose for my it’s currently here in the states, but it will. It is eventually back home, 20 years from now, 25 years from now as me and you were discussing, discussing this afternoon, it is to go back home. You
Daniel King (21:17):
Want go back to Afghani. Why do you, why do you wanna go back? Because
Tayyab (21:21):
I believe that the gift of education, the gift that was passed on to me was the gift that completely transformed my in, in a better light. I want to go back home and build my own system of of schools and universities and pass on this light, this fire of education to other individuals, my people there’s talent back in Afghanistan. There is people still love their country while our flag might have been taken down. It still, it still flies how high in our hearts. We are Afghans. We are proud people. We love our country, and I believe we have a great, good, great future in hand. Well, today, many people might not believe in this dream of mine. I assure you, Mr. Daniel King, there is hope for Afghanistan and there’s people like me that are gonna change the country, bring it to a positive direction, give a big part of it is giving the people the gift of education. It will make them realize what they truly are, how much their value is and how they can as Afghans. And then as human beings completely transform the world.
Daniel King (22:29):
Well, as an American, I want to welcome you with open arms to our nation. We are happy that you are here, and I believe that God will do great things in your life. God has a great plan for your life. And I also share your dream for a peace Afghanistan. For many years, our family has prayed for there to be peace in Afghanistan. And for the last 40 years there every day, there has been very little peace, but someday I believe there will be peace in Afghanistan and the Afghan people will be great in the eyes of the world. And so I’m so delighted that you’re here. Thank you. It’s been an honor for, for being with me on this podcast. And what would you say to Americans who maybe would meet in Afghan or see an Afghan at the store? What, what would you say to them that should do to, to welcome Afghans
Tayyab (23:33):
Fellow Americans and anybody else? Who’s listening to his podcast. I, as an Afghan am one of your brothers, a long lost brother, and there’s your long lost brothers and sisters that have come across the world in hopes that you guys will assist them and help them to at attain attain a level of a level of safety and peace. Welcome them, give them a hug, make sure that they are reminded that they’re safe here and that you love them. We have had a very difficult life with last 40 years, and we’re hoping the next 40 is gonna be a peaceful one, a one with smiles, a one with warmth of family and care. Each one of you can make this difference in their hearts and their lives be that difference for that person. Thank you.
Daniel King (24:20):
Thank you so much for being with me. It’s great to have you here.
Tayyab (24:23):
Thank you, Mr. King.
Daniel King (24:25):
Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today, our ministry is helping Afghan refugees resettle here in the United States. The Afghans need houses, transportation, education, and many other things in order to succeed in this nation. If you want to help an Afghan refugee, you can do so by king of donation@wwwdotkingministries.com. Thank you so much for your generosity and thank you for helping us to help these beautiful Afghan people who have come to our nation for more
Evangelism Podcast Host (24:59):
Information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Vision for a New Year
Do you have a vision for your life? What are you aiming for in your ministry? What are you aiming for in your relationships? What do you want to accomplish in life? Where do you want to be in five years? What will God do in your life in 2022?
Please subscribe to the Evangelism Podcast with Evangelism Coach Daniel King.
Transcription:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
It’s a new year and it’s time for new vision. Do you have a vision for your life? What are you aiming for in your ministry? What are you aiming for in your relationships? What do you wanna accomplish in life? Where do you want to be in five years today, we’re going to talk about the importance of vision in your ministry.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:25):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be say, welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Danielle King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:00):
Welcome. Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. We are talking about vision and I am joined by my brand new co-host and fellow evangelist, Daniel Patterson, Daniel, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me on. And we are going to be talking about vision. It is right at the beginning of a new year, 2022. And at the beginning of a new year is a good time to stop and to kind of start to think about what God has for you in the new year. A lot of people set new year’s solutions, and I, I think that the biblical form of new year’s resolutions is vision setting a vision for your life. So, so Daniel, if you aim at nothing, you’ll hit it every time. So if you aim at nothing in life, you’re gonna hit nothing. But if you aim at a specific target, God will help you to hit the target. And so there’s a verse in Habakkuk two verse two that talks about the importance of vision. Could you read for us that verse in, in, in let’s find out what God’s word says about setting vision? Yeah, so
Daniel Patterson (02:21):
It says in a Habakkuk 2:2 this then the Lord replied, write down the revelation or vision and make it plain on tablets so that a Herald may run with it
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:34):
And keep reading
Daniel Patterson (02:35):
For the revelation of awaits an important time. It speaks of the end and will not prove false though. It linger, wait for it. It will certain come and will not delay.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:46):
So it says to write the vision and make it plain, write the vision and make it plain that he who reads it may run with it. So, Daniel, talk to me a little bit. Why do you think it’s important to write down a vision?
Daniel Patterson (03:04):
So I graduated from victory Bible college just in this last spring. And one of the things they taught us and told us was that if you just think about it, then the likely chance that you do is very, very, but if you actually write it down, you actually remember, and the chances of you actually doing it are much higher. So whenever you write it down and it actually goes into your heart and you think about it a lot more compared to just thinking
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:31):
About it. So there’s actually a lot of power in, in writing it down. You know, I want you imagine in Archer, who’s shooting his, his bow. And so if he aims right at the center of his target, he can judge his success and failure, depending on how close he gets to the middle of the target. But just imagine if he aims his arrow at nothing in particular, you know, the arrow might hit a tree, it might hit a house. It might hit a, a passer by. And so some people, they, they shoot an arrow and then wherever it falls, they go and they just draw a circle around the area and see, see, look, I hit the middle of the target, but if you have a specific target in mind that you’ve written down and you aim your arrow at the target, then it allows you to lift your bow down side to side, to move it so that you can actually hit the target that you’re aiming at.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:27):
And the process of writing it down is setting the target. What area are you aiming your life at? And so in my life, the area that I’m aiming my life is to winning people to Jesus. I am called to be an evangelist. And so I set a goal when I was 15 years old, that I wanted to lead a million people to Jesus before I turned 30 years of age. And that goal became kind of the, the defining vision, the target for my life and every decision I made, I judged against that specific goal of leading a million people to Jesus. And, and so some opportunities came to me that helped me to achieve that goal. But then other opportunities came that would have distracted me. They, there were not necessarily bad things to do, but they wouldn’t helped me achieve that goal. And, and so just making that decision and writing it down, I wanna lead a million people to Jesus. Before I turn 30 years of age, it helped me to judge my success and help me to make the decisions that I had in life. And so in Proverbs chapter 29, verse eight 18, it says without a vision, the people per what, what do you think that verse means? Daniel?
Daniel Patterson (05:48):
So basically when you look at, you know, all, all the kingdoms and, and famous governments throughout history, where there was America, they had a vision to have a, a free Republic that the people had rights in. And they actually wrote the vision down in the 10 commandments. And because of it, it led to what we have today, a free democracy. And, and so whenever you have that vision, it helps lead to freedom for the people and it impacting other people. But whenever you don’t have a vision, it’s hard to, to build off anything. You don’t have a foundation when you don’t have a vision.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:20):
So if you’re listening to me today, I want you to begin to think about what God’s vision is for your life. You might even wanna pull out a piece of paper right now and begin to write down some of the, the visions that God has given for you. You know, putting a vision down on paper, earns it from a dream into a specific goal. And once you have that goal, it’s something that you can begin to aim towards and, and achieve in your life. Vision is God’s plan for your life. God gave you vision. So you wouldn’t have to live by only what you see. The Bible says that faith is the sub of things you hope to accomplish the evidence of things that you cannot see, even when other people maybe can’t see them. And you begin to write down your vision. You can see something in faith by faith.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
You can see something using your faith even before other people can see it. And so vision is not the same sight. You know, sight is a function of the eyes, but vision is a function of the heart sight is the ability to see things as they are. Vision is the ability to see things as they could be. You know, Helen Keller, she was really famous. She was both deaf and blind, but she learned to communicate using sign language, but tactile sign language. She had communicate by touching people’s hands. And she was once asked, can you imagine something even worse than being born blind? And she said, the only thing worse than being born blind is being able to see and having no vision for your life. And so vision is seeing the future before it comes into being vision is a mental picture of your destiny.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:05):
Vision is the key to your future. And, and so we think about people in life that have great visions. Like for example Steve jobs, he was the one who invented the, the apple iPhone, and he had a vision or the iPhone before anyone else could see it. And he thought, I wonder if we could put a communication device together that would make phone calls that would allow you to listen to songs, and that could access the internet and put all those devices down into one device that would fit into a person’s pocket. And he managed to do it. He had a vision for an iPhone, and because of his vision, he got rich because everyone suddenly, when he, his vision came to fruition, they said, that’s some, that’s a gadget that I have to have. And, and so the same is true in ministry that your vision will create the future. It will create something that doesn’t exist. No one else can see it, but you can see it in your spirit. God gives us vision. And then by faith, we can be in working towards it. And what is on the inside can manifest in reality and, and everyone can see it. Daniel, what are some of the things that God has put in your heart that you would like to see God do in the future, in your life?
Daniel Patterson (09:30):
So one of the, one of the things that I know God’s called me as an evangelist, he is called me to preach a gospel to the nations. And I know that because he revealed it to me at 16 years of age. And, and because he’s revealed that to me, I’ve I, I’ve made a dream board putting pictures of crusades and stuff along those lines. And tell me,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:52):
Let’s stop there from a, tell me what is a dream board, what what’s a dream board. So
Daniel Patterson (09:57):
So I guess the Christian version of a dream board, cuz you’re gonna have a regular dream board. So it’s putting out through pictures and vision and in other things putting on a piece of paper or a board of what God’s called you to do. So if God’s called you to say, to be a youth, pastor you to pictures of maybe going on campuses and pictures of reaching kids in the church. But for me as an evangelist I’m putting pictures of pictures of crusades. So a dream board is putting into picture form of what God’s called you to do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:34):
So you’re, you’re cutting out pictures of what it is. It’s basically creating a vision for your life. You’re, you’re putting that picture in front of you in whatever is your dominant focus is what will manifest into reality in your life. And, and so tell what did you put on your dream board that told you about your, your calling as an evangelist pictures? Did you put on there?
Daniel Patterson (10:58):
So there was a picture of Billy Graham who who’s my favorite Evangel. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:02):
Billy Graham, great Evangel. Yeah. You, you cut out a picture, Billy Graham
Daniel Patterson (11:05):
He’s preaching in a Soule, South Korea. Okay. And he’s preaching to a million people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:10):
So I’ve seen that picture. Yeah. It’s a huge crowd of people. So here, Billy Graham is preaching to a, a million people. What did that vision begin to do in your life?
Daniel Patterson (11:22):
So it inspires me to to reach towards that goal of being an evangelist. And it gives me hope, cuz obviously right now I’m not preaching to a million people, but whenever I, I, I look at it it gives me hope knowing that and believing that one day it’s gonna happen. So it gives me hope. And inspiration.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:41):
Do you think that there will come a time where you will have the opportunity to preach to a million people?
Daniel Patterson (11:45):
Yes. In Jesus name <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:47):
I mean, that would be amazing, wouldn’t it? And, and to preach to a million people and see a million people get saved at and one time, you know, there’s, there’s a famous story about Reinhardt bonky. Kenneth Copeland found Reinhardt bonky when he was just in the beginning stages of his ministry. At that time, he was, he was doing crusades, but his biggest crusade was only in the, the 10 to 30,000 people range, which is for Reinhard was still a very small crusade. And Kenneth Copeland prophesied over Reinhard and said, the day will come where you will lead a million people to Jesus in a single prayer. And at that time to go from 30,000 in a crowd to a million, it seems impossible, but that prophecy can came to pass. And the day came at one of the big crusades in Legos, Nigeria, that Reinhard bonky actually led a million people to Jesus in a single prayer.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:44):
And it came because of that prophecy, but really what a prophecy is, is it’s, it’s presenting a vision of the future of what God wants to, to do in the future. So vision is unique to our species. Only humans can enter the world of the imagination and create a future. This is the reason why humans have advanced over the centuries while animals live the same lives year after year animals, only what they can sense. You know, a dog, he, he can taste, he can touch, he can feel. But the unique ability that humans have is this ability to create vision in their, their mind. And then to begin to work towards that vision, we can actually dream beyond reality. We can work towards an invisible goal. We can harness the power of creative work creative vision and envision actually motivates us to work.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:43):
Really vision is, is the only motivation that we have for work. Why, why go to work well is because maybe you have a vision for earning money to buy a new car, or, or maybe you have a vision to, to get me married someday. You know that in order to get married, you’re gonna have to have some money in the bank. And, and, and so vision thinking about your future is what gives us the motivation to, to work hard. Vision is what motivates me in ministry to, to work hard, to, to lead people, to Jews, cuz I have a vision of thousands and even millions of people being in heaven with me. I don’t want them to go to hell. I have a vision of them joining with me in heaven. I have a vision of me being in heaven and people coming up and saying, thank you for helping to lead me to Jesus, thank you because of you I’m here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:29):
And so that vision gives me kind of the motivation to keep going. When, when things get tough and there are two types of vision that you can have for your life, there is a positive vision and there’s a negative vision. And your motivation for working is going to be grounded either in faith or in fear. So faith builds. Faith is a positive vision for your life. But fear think about it. Fear is actually a negative vision that Satan comes to try to give you for your life. And, and so Satan is the original terrorist. He uses terror and fear to try to influence people. So Satan has given people a vision in their life concerning COVID right now, what Satan’s vision it’s you’re gonna get sick. You’re going to die. And because of that fear, everyone in society has been so of COVID. But Jesus gives us a positive vision for our life. Jesus says, I give you healing. I give you health. I give you prosperity. And, and so he gives us faith. Talk to me a little bit, Daniel, about the difference between faith and fear. What do you think is the difference between faith and year?
Daniel Patterson (15:52):
Yeah, so we have a choice whenever as Christians, whenever we’re stepping into what God’s calls us to do, we can choose to have faith and believe what, what God’s called us to, or we can choose to believe in the fear. And so really we have a choice to believe in one of two options. And for me person leave, you might as well choose faith and believe and step out cuz either way, you’re gonna have to believe. And whenever you choose fear, you’re choosing to walk away from what God’s called you to do. You know, you can be saved, you can know Jesus and be on your way to heaven, but it says an Ephesians, you 10, that he, for us, what he called us to do before we were born. And so we have a choice to walk out the vision for our life or not. So faith
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:42):
Is believing that something good is going to happen to us if we do what’s right. So this is a positive vision of the future. And it’s very healthy to be motivated by faith, but fear, the opposite fear is the belief that something bad will happen to us. If we don’t do what’s right, and fear is binding and it’s it’s blinding. It actually causes us to, to do things out of, of obligation. And envision is so powerful. Like vision is the secret weapon of advertisers. Think about every advertisement. They don’t just show you the picture of a car. They show you the picture of you in a car with a beautiful girl driving fast down the road. They’re they’re trying to sell a vision of what your life could be like. If you buy a particular car in every advertiser, D does this, they try to, to show your young, successful, happy, sexy, and the advertiser wants you to see they.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:44):
They want you to see yourself using their product in order to, to be happy. And so they, they create a vision of what your life could be like with that product. And I think the same is, is true of God. God gives us a vision of what we could become with his help. And then as we begin to walk in that vision, then we begin to see it happen in our lives. And so there’s something called the law of dominant focus. Whatever you focus on is what’s going to develop in your life. Nowadays we have digital cameras, but in, in the old days, you know, they would take a picture and then you would develop the picture. It would be a, a negative. And, and then you would take the, the negatives and you’d develop it into a picture. And, and so if you take a picture of something, it, it can be a picture of a dog.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:42):
It can be a picture of a cat or a picture of a fish. Whatever you’re taking the picture of is what’s going to develop you when you take it. And so what you focus on in life is what will develop in your life. And so if you can’t see your future, you really don’t have a future. Vision is the power to change who you are and the power to change, where you’re going. Every great achievement in life actually began with a vision. And so my prayer is for you, who’s listening is that God would give you a great vision for your life in this coming year. What is your vision for your life? What is it that God is calling you to do in this new year? What, what goals, what resolutions are you going to set for this new year? What is 2022 going to bring in your life?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:36):
You know, what type of, of legacy do you want to create in your life? What, what do you want to be one year from now? What are some of the things that you want to, to see develop in, in your life? Just yesterday my wife and I sat down and started talking about some of our vision for our, our lives in this new year. And we broke it down into several different categories, the categories of faith, what goals do we wanna set for our lives in the area of faith? And one of the goals that we have is we wanna read the Bible. I want to be reading Bible stories to my kids every night before they go to bed. My wife said that she wants to spend more time worshiping. And then we’ve had a lot of stress and worry lately. And so one of my wife’s goals was she wants to shake off the cares of this world in this new year and, and to, to N not worry to, to live stress free. And so those are some of our, our goals in the area of faith, Daniel, what are some faith goals that you have for yourself in this coming year?
Daniel Patterson (20:42):
So one of them is the biggest thing is having a daily relationship with the Lord. So I wanna read the entire Bible this year. So I have a Bob reading plan, which breaks it down every single day. So I’m able to read it by the entire Bible by the end of the year. Another goal is just as I’m, as I’m here, is being prepared as an evangelist to, to go out and preach to the nations and, and being able to do behind the scenes stuff like websites and photography and fundraising and things like that. Another goal that I have this year is I wanna be able to either co co-partner with another evangelist or, or do a crusade for myself for the first time and, and bring people into the kingdom of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:30):
All right. So then another area to set goals is family. We got faith, family, finances, friendship, fitness, fun, and then ministry. So family in, in our family, like one of the things we want is both of our kids to do daily piano practice. So that’s one of our family goals is that every single day that they would do piano practice and then that our kids would complete their chores and their homework every day that that’s a challenge sometimes as parents to get them to do that. And, and then in order to make that happen, we realize we need to have less screen time and we need to have more family time. And so we set a goal to, to have more walk games, bike rides, and, and outings as a family. So to take the kids away from the screen time and, and get them doing different activities.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:19):
And then finances we have some, some financial goals. And so you might wanna think about what are your financial goals for this year? What is it that, that you wanna do to you want to get out of debt? Do, do you want to make more money? Do you want to invest more money? And so some financial goals can help you make decisions for your life. Also friendship. What areas do you want to develop in as a friend fitness? What are some of your fitness goals? Well, Michael, I need to lose some weight. And so I’ve got that as a goal, very popular, new year’s resolution exercise more. Do you have any fitness goals? I
Daniel Patterson (22:56):
Tried to work out a few times a week, about four or five times a week, every morning.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:00):
That’s great. And then fun. My wife and I decide we should do at least one date every week. And so every Friday we’re gonna set aside time for us to have a and, and then ministry. We’ve got a variety of ministry goals. I’ve got a crusade coming up in Ethiopia and Zambia, and then we’re working on putting more crusades on the calendar. The goal is to do six to eight crusades every single year. So God gives us these visions for our life. And then we begin to work to, to implement them and to take steps towards completing the vision. And so right now, I want to pray for you and pray for the vision that God has given you for your life. I I’d encourage you find a sheet of paper, begin to write down some of your vision, some of your goals, some of the things that God has for you in your life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:53):
And, and then let me just pray for you, dear heavenly father, I pray for my friend. I pray that you would give them a great vision for their life. I pray that you give ’em a great vision for this coming year of what this year could become. And Lord, I pray, my friend would be focused on the faith side of vision, not the fear side of vision that they would respond to God’s vision for their life, not the devil’s vision for their life. We know that the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but Jesus comes to give you life and life more abundantly. Lord, I pray that this coming year would be in amazing year in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, our ministry is supported by people like you, who help us go to the nations to preach the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:41):
Our goal is every soul. It only costs us an average of a out $1 for every person we’re able to tell about Jesus. And so could you do me a favor, go to my website, king ministries.com and become a partner with us for as little as $1 a month. You can start to partner with king ministries and help us lead at least person to Jesus every single month. Imagine for $1, you can start a party in heaven every single month. So right now, go to king ministries.com and partner with us and help us to preach the gospel to those who need to hear the gospel. The most, the least reach people in the world. Also, I’d like to ask you to go to apple podcast and give the evangelism podcast a five star review. Your positive review will help other people find this podcast who are excited about evangelism. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (25:49):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Happy New Year
Happy New Year! Whatever you do in life, I encourage you to do it with all of your might and never stop chasing your dreams.
In the next twelve months (365 days, 8,760 hours, 31,536,000 seconds) you can either waste your time or achieve great things. Some will change lives, some will make millions of dollars, and some will vegetate in front of the television set. The choice is up to you, what are you going to accomplish in your life?
Here is my advice for those who want to make a difference during this coming year.
- Start with a plan. The winners in life are those who plan to be winners. The guy at the top of the mountain did not fall there accidentally. It takes a lot of planning, hard work, and sweat to be able to climb a tall mountain. Life is what happens to us on a day-to-day basis while we dream about the future. Success requires a daily commitment to excellence. Do not allow your dreams to die because you fail to live life to the fullest each day. General George S. Patton exhorted his men to, “Accept the challenges so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory.”
- Get started right away. Leonardo da Vinci, the Renaissance inventor and painter said, “Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind.” Leonardo achieved greatness in his life because he pursued greatness each and every day. The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step. Each day represents a step in life. A series of days well lived will produce a life worth living.
- Aim for the stars. Do something great this year. Do not be satisfied with mediocrity. Do not do something that is insignificant, obscure, or unimportant. Norman Vincent Peale said, “I expect the best and with God’s help will attain the best.”
- Dream big. Accomplish something great for God. Love deeply, sing happily, laugh loud, play hard, work harder, perform beyond expectations, leap high, run fast, stay focused, do what is right. These are the keys to happiness and success.
- Love deeply and give yourself away. Love God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and body, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. The only way to find love in your life is to give it away. The more you give, the more will be returned to you. Giving love is not a one-time occurrence, it is an everyday experience.
- Make a plan and follow it. Find your purpose. Write your vision down on paper. Follow your heart, not the crowd. Ignore criticism. Concentrate. Maintain high standards. Expand your horizons. Dream big. Put life into your dreams. Set goals. Achieve those goals. Commit to excellence. Settle for nothing less then success. Cultivate relationships. Conquer your fears. Sustain a good attitude. Sow and reap. Make failures temporary. Continue to educate yourself. Develop new skills. Rise above disappointments. Stay on track. Keep your eyes on the prize. Aim high. Create reality. Fulfill your destiny. Give God the glory.
- Don’t waste a single day. Seize the day, every day, and you will achieve success. God made you to be a winner. He does not want to see you fail. Tools have been placed in your hands which can help you achieve your dreams. If you place the tools away in your tool belt, they will look good, but you will never build anything. However, if you use the tools wisely, you will create something beautiful.
- Do not give up. Winston Churchill was once asked to give a speech at a boy’s prep school. After a long, eloquent introduction, he stood up and gave an eight word speech, “Never, never, never, never, never, never, give up.” This advice from the man who carried Great Brittan to victory in the midst of her darkest hour rings true today. It is vital to keep seizing the day, every day. I heard a story about a man who failed in business, was defeated in a bid for the legislature, failed in business a second time, suffered a nervous breakdown, defeated for speaker, defeated for Congress, defeated in a run for the Senate, defeated for Vice President, defeated for Senate a second time, and finally, in 1860, was elected President of the United States of America. His name was Abraham Lincoln, arguably the most successful president this country has ever known. His voice echoes across the years as he says, “Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other one thing.”
- Know that God has a plan for you. God will place you in situations where you are His only representative. You are called to be a minister of his shining light. Whenever you see a hurting person, tell them about the God who made it possible for you to conquer. Go forth every day and be all that God has called you to be. The place you start is not as important as the place you finish.
ABOUT DANIEL KING
Evangelist Daniel King, D.Min is on a mission to lead people to Jesus. He has visited over seventy nations preaching good news and he has led over two million people in a salvation prayer. To support King Ministries in our quest for souls, click here!