1 877-431-4276Ryan Brown | Open Doors to Help the Persecuted Church
Can God use a chicken farm as a tool for evangelism and church planting? Find out on today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast. Daniel King interviews Ryan Brown, the CEO of Open Doors, a ministry dedicated to helping the persecuted church. The organization was started by Brother Andrew who was known as God’s Smuggler for his work smuggling Bibles into the former Soviet Union. Today, Open Doors continues its work of standing up for Christians who suffer persecution and discrimination.
Learn more about Open Doors: https://www.opendoorsus.org/en-US/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Can God use a chicken farm as a tool for evangelism in church planting? Find out on today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast, I’m going to interview Ryan Brown, the CEO of Open Doors, a ministry dedicated to helping the persecuted church. The organization was started by Brother Andrew, who was known as God smuggler for his work, smuggling Bibles into the former Soviet Union. Today open Doors continues its work of standing up for Christians who suffer persecution and discrimination.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:48):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Ryan Brown from Open Doors. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (01:28):
Oh, Daniel, thank you. It’s such a privilege to be here with you today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:31):
Well, tell me a little bit about what your organization Open Doors does.
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (01:37):
Yeah, so Open Doors this next year will actually be 70 years ago that the organization was started and was started by a gentleman that’s come to be known as Brother Andrew. And he smuggled Bibles behind the Iron Curtain and that work gave as he responded to the needs of the church that was experiencing persecution in those areas that work, smuggling Bibles and gospel materials gave birth to an international ministry where we are now working in over 70 countries around the globe where Christians are most persecuted or discriminated against because of their faith in Jesus. So every year we put out a world Watch list in which we highlight the 50 countries around the globe where Christians most suffer because of that decision to follow Jesus. And we are really honored and humbled by the privilege that we get to come alongside the church in all of these areas in which it’s being persecuted to support the church in those contexts so that they can continue to be the hands and feet of Christ right there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
So on this year’s World Watch list, what are some of the countries where our Christian brothers and sisters experience the most persecution right now?
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (02:58):
Yeah, question. I think one of the big trends that we have seen this year, and I should say that this has really been a multi-year trend, which is continuing to escalate at alarming levels, but has been just the incredible violence in Sub-Saharan Africa. And more specifically, I think one of the areas where you see that played out the most is actually in Nigeria. In Nigeria, we saw more people martyred for their faith this last year than all other places in the globe combined. But there has been massive of displacement that has occurred throughout Sub-Saharan Africa just because of the instability. And it’s not just Christians that have been impacted, but Christians have been uniquely impacted in that there are about 16.2 million Christians across Africa that have been displaced and currently living in either internally displaced people’s camp IDP camps or some of those are formal, some of those are informal and Christians have been targeted and Christians have been the focus of much of the instability, the targets I should say, of much of the instability there.
(04:24):
For those folks that are living in IDP camps, it’s been a difficult proposition. Many of them because of their Christian faith have been overlooked or have been neglected in the distribution of aid and those types of things by others that might share the same faith of the folks running the camps. So a very, very difficult situation for Christians throughout Sub-Saharan Africa and we see an increase in the number of countries there. We continue to see other areas where some of the totalitarian regimes just continue to exert influence and make things very, very difficult for Christians where the solidarity and the community that Christians exhibit is seen as a threat to the state. And so governments will crack down harshly on the church and those areas, these are places like North Korea and places like that. Just to give people a little bit of context, North Korea is on the top of the world watch list.
(05:37):
It has been for a number of years and this is a country where Christians and their entire family can be in prison just for being in possession of a Bible. So very, very challenging and difficult for Christians there. We also see the world watch list areas like in Central and South America where as you take a look at the cartels, the drug cartels and those types of things in these areas as pastors have either spoken out against the cartels or have been reaching out to their communities in ways that are pulling young people into the faith and out of the cartels and out of the lifestyle that would financially support the cartels, the leaders of those cartels see the church as bad for business and so they’ve targeted those churches trying to tear them down. So those are some of the trends that we’ve seen emerging over the course of the last year.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:43):
Okay. Let’s talk about some of the things that you mentioned. First of all, Nigeria, I’ve been over there to Nigeria and actually taught at the largest mission school in Nigeria, run by the Redeemed Church, which has churches all over Nigeria. And I remember the leader of this mission school he had was telling us stories about some of their graduates that had gone up into northern Nigeria, planted churches and the churches were burned down, the Christians were killed. In one case, they actually took all the members of the congregation, put them inside a church building, burned the church down around them. And I saw pictures, very graphic photos of the charred bodies that were left there. And so tremendous persecution, South Korea or North Korea. Last week I was at the Uzon Conference
(07:49):
In Korea and it was really beautiful to see the South Korean church praying for the North Koreans. Their society really has tragically been split in half for many years now and technically they’re still at war. And the South Korean Church is earnestly praying for God to bring peace to the Korean Peninsula. And it was actually really beautiful to see. And then the drug cartels down in central and South America. My parents were missionaries in Mexico. We grew up in Juarez, Mexico, right across the border from El Paso, Texas. And at one point that was the area that had the largest number of murders of any city in the world because of the drug trafficking that was coming through Juarez. And so in our services we would often have drug cartel members that would come to our services, sometimes would persecute the Christians. One of our close pastor friends that we worked with in Juarez in his church, he had a drug rehab program and obviously the cartel was not happy about him helping to set people free from an addiction to drugs.
(09:15):
And so they came in, they told him to stop, he didn’t stop. And the next time they came in, they came in, they shot four people including the pastor that we were working with. And so this persecution is a reality on the ground around the world. What do you think should be the response of Christians here in America who hear these stories? We live sometimes very comfortable lives, but our brothers and sisters are being persecuted for their faith in these different countries. What should be the response of people that hear these stories about what is happening to Christians worldwide?
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (09:59):
Yeah, such a great and beautiful question. I think first and foremost, that response should always be one of prayer because when the people of God are persecuted or discriminated against because of their faith in Jesus, that first and foremost is a spiritual issue. And so prayer is not a strategy of last resort in this case, prayer is the frontline of what we should be doing. It’s the first way that we should be engaging. And I can’t tell you how often I’ve heard from our brothers and sisters that are experiencing persecution when asked in what ways we can be supporting and helping them. That is so often the very first things off their lips. It’s just don’t forget us. It is such an encouragement for folks to know that brothers and sisters around the globe are lifting them up in prayer. One of the byproducts of persecution can often just be this feeling of isolation that individuals are alone and whether that be because they’re imprisoned or just because they’re cut off from different aspects of their culture and to know that they are part of a global body of believers that is lifting them up, that’s a powerful encouragement.
(11:19):
I think one of the other ways that we truly looked to support and come alongside is the church can experience, and we kind of characterize that persecution in two different ways, painting with a broad brush in some ways we characterize as smash of persecution. So these are some of the things that we’ve been talking about where persecution is carried out with violence and whether that be through actual people being martyred for their faiths or physically beaten or assaulted or property being destroyed or burned, that idea of a physical violence is a smash of persecution. But there’s also another very real reality that threatens the church in these areas and that’s what we call the squeeze of persecution. And this is a dynamic in which churches, individuals have been denied access to education, they’ve been denied access to employment. And for Christians in those areas, if they can’t feed their families, they’re forced to leave.
(12:29):
And that’s what can gut the church in these areas is that when leaders have to leave the area because they can no longer survive or live in these areas that decimate the church. And that’s one of the ways that the church comes under attack. So one of the areas ways that we come alongside is to support the church in these areas with things like livelihood programs or literacy programs that allow the church and individuals in the church to remain rooted in those very very areas and allow them to continue to be the church in those areas. And so you’d mentioned that in many ways, many of us live in a position of comfort that’s not necessarily something that we should inherently feel guilty about. Paul talks about the God of all comfort has extended us comfort, but the reason that he’s extended his comfort is not just so that we can be comfortable, but so that we in exchange can be a comfort to others.
(13:30):
We can extend that comfort as the hands and feet of Christ to others. And so with some of these blessings and some of these resources that Christ has given us, we have an opportunity to mobilize those to our brothers and sisters. Scripture also talks about when one part of the body hurts, we all hurt. And as we believe that, as we act according to that, it gives us opportunity to come alongside and support these livelihood programs to support these education programs that again allow individuals to continue to remain the church right there in these areas that so desperately need the gospel, but areas in which the gospel is so aggressively attacked.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:19):
What does your organization open doors specifically do to help Christians in these persecuted areas? You mentioned just now literacy programs. You mentioned helping them out with vocational training. Are you still smuggling Bibles like Brother Andrew did back in the day?
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (14:41):
Yeah, so it was over a million Bibles or so that were distributed this last year. Obviously it is changed quite a bit with the internet, those types of things as far as what access looks like to some of those things. And so getting people access to the word of God has and will continue to remain a priority at a core part of our organization, the word is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword. And it’s the tool for discipleship and to grow in our faith with Christ. And so the word of God is just critical and central and so that very much is still remains apart in some cases, yes, it does require a covert type of presence to be able to get those Bibles distributed. Other times it’s not the case and it’s just a matter of being able to mobilize some of those scriptures in some cases too.
(15:49):
I mean especially where illiteracy is high, there are things like digital audio bibles that we’re able to provide so that people can hear the word of God in places like North Korea, like we’ve mentioned we have, it’s very, very difficult to operate within the country and their are economic sanctions and things like that that have to be observed. But we are able to broadcast radio across borders and proclaim and read the word of God in those contexts as well. So yeah, the Bible is a big, big part of what we continue to do. We also do other things such as providing trauma counseling and care and operating safe houses in different locations. I don’t think that it’s hard for us to imagine that even with the presence of Christ in our lives, there are people that have experienced horrific expressions of persecution that can be emotionally and psychologically damaging and scarring.
(17:05):
And to be able to offer with Christ as the center piece of that counseling and support and to walk people through that and help walk with them back to a position of health, spiritual, emotional, and physical health, that can be a big part of our work in places like North, excuse me, in Sub-Saharan Africa rather where talked about the IDP camps and things like that. There’s some of that that very much looks like some of the emergency relief type of a situation. Like we’re bringing in food items and providing area access to food for folks in other areas, it is more kind of that socioeconomic development. There are places where I won’t necessarily mention specifically just for the security of those believers there, but there’s one country that I know of that I think by all accounts most of us would kind of consider close to the gospel.
(18:16):
But in that area we’re working with about 500 house churches and that when we’ve come alongside those churches, one of the things that they’ve said is they would say that over the coming years they would like to double, they’d like to see 500 more house churches planted. And so the way that they have asked us to come alongside was to actually develop a chicken farming school in which these pastors, one, they, they’re able to draw a livelihood from that, but it gave them a cover under which they could be going to a lot of different houses and a lot of different people to meet people to provide training. And under that umbrella that gave them opportunity to provide the training to help plant additional house churches. And so it can look different in different types of context. I think that the big thing is that we recognize that the Holy Spirit is living, working and active in all of these places.
(19:20):
And so it’s not about what open doors is going to import through customs or smuggle or those types of things. It’s about how do we come alongside what the Holy Spirit is doing right there in these different places? How do we come alongside and support the church in what it is doing and what Christ has called it to do and who Christ has called it to be right there in those contexts. So that looks different. God is working in ways in Eastern Asia that looks different than even central Asia. It looks different in Africa or South America, but God is at work in these places. His Holy Spirit is present. And so we really looked to contextualize it according to that work that Christ is doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:10):
Well, I’ve done evangelism in a lot of different parts of the world and I’m a student of different evangelism techniques and ways for reaching out, but that’s the first time I’ve ever heard of the Chicken Farm Evangelistic tool starting a chicken farm as a way to give people an excuse to go door to door and to plant house churches. What a tremendous story. So if someone is listening and they want to find out more about your organization or they want to help to support you in your mission to help the persecuted church, what is your website? What’s a way for them to find out more about you?
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (20:53):
Yeah, it’s open doors us.org, open doors us.org. And as you go there, you’ll see it a number of resources. And one of the things that I often will point people towards is that World Watch list that I mentioned earlier that highlights the 50 countries around the world. That is a resource that we’ve been doing it for 30 some years now. And originally started as an in-house tool just as we were looking to understand how the face of persecution was changing and evolving and emerging or declining in different parts of the globe. We had our teams in place to help inform that and began putting a very systematic approach to look at that. And we began to realize that others ministries might find this helpful. And so we began making that available. And I think we were, many were surprised by just the reality that it wasn’t just churches or Christian ministries, it began to reference this information.
(22:01):
But people like the State Department and the UN and other types of academia began to utilize this as a resource because under that broader freedom of religious belief discussion, it can be difficult at times to look through the specific lens and understand for different faiths what that looks like as far as what does persecution look like for Christians. And so we’re able to provide that resource, but that resource, when folks engage with that, I mean, it’s not just the information talking about the horrors or the realities that believers face there, but it also provides very specific prayer points. So many times in these situations it can be difficult to even know how to pray in some of these situations. And these prayer points are prayer points, not just things that we’re praying for the church there, but they’re things that the church has vocalized as ways that they would ask for us to pray.
(23:06):
So we’re not just praying for the church, we’re praying with the church because these are the ways that they’re praying as well. And so would always point people towards that as a first resource to engage with that. You’ll see different things on there as far as different prayer calendars and things that people can utilize just to even get a little bite size piece of information that on a daily basis that they can work that into their daily cadence of prayer and their routine of locking arms with our brothers and sisters as one body of Christ around the globe. And so yeah, we pray that those resources would be a valuable resource to folks here in the United States.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:52):
Let’s finish up with a specific story. Can you tell me about an individual or a family that opened doors was able to help during a time of persecution?
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (24:05):
Yeah, there are many, and I think one, I have the opportunity to read many of these stories, but I think that we can always be impacted in different ways with individuals that we’ve had opportunity to meet and to dialogue with. And so there’s a gentleman that I won’t mention the country that he’s from because for security concerns, but he was a leader in the Muslim church in that area, and he was sent to a country in Europe as part of his training for Jihad. And I know for many of us when we hear Jihad that we can focus on a specific aspect of that, the idea of terrorism or things along those lines. And that can be an expression, but that there can be a broader definition of that where in some cases we might also consider a bit more like we would maybe missionaries or things along those lines.
(25:23):
But he was sent to this European country and had a hate for Christians. He’d been told a narrative of who Christians were and what they stood for all of his life. And as he came to Germany, he had to find a place to live. He had to find some employment as he was learning about the culture there. And it just so happened that he got a job and ended up living with a family that were Christians and they knew he was Muslim. They said, we’re not going to try to convert you, but we want you to be part of our family and all of these things. And he began to experience through them something that he couldn’t reconcile with everything that he had learned about Christians up to that point in time. And it honestly sent him on a tailspin because he started to question everything.
(26:18):
He got involved in drugs, he got involved in alcohol, and at a point of desperation, he cried out and said, God, I don’t know if you’re real, but you need to tell me who you are. And fairly quickly thereafter, he had a dream one night and he was in the market shopping and a shopkeeper invited him in. And in this shop mean it was just tables filled with diamonds and gold and jewels. And the shopkeeper gave him bags and he said, take, this is for you. And he started loading up his bags and he walked out of the store. And in his dream, he was just ecstatic that he was rich beyond anything he could have imagined. And a roommate woke him up and he was so disappointed and was even in a little bit of depression when he realized that that dream wasn’t real.
(27:14):
And then a couple nights later, he had another dream and that that shopkeeper was standing in a throne room and he realized that that shot keeper was Jesus. And Jesus said, come to me. And this individual, one of the things in the Muslim faith, there is not a completed sufficient work of Christ to cover in atone for sins. It is much more like a work-based theology. And so he said, I can’t. I’m sinful. And in his dream, his sin, actually, he was wearing his sin almost like it was skin. And Jesus said to him, I forgive you. And he looked down and this physical manifestation of the sin started to fall off of his body. And he woke up and he realized, okay, I need to know who this Jesus is. And he started engaging with the church and came to faith in Christ, began working with refugees from his country that were living.
(28:28):
And the church in this country that he’s originally from has issued several death proclamations against him. Not only him but his wife and also his newborn son. I first met him on, it was a Wednesday and literally the day before the church in his birth country had just issued their fourth proclamation calling for his death. They sent people across the border, they’ve attacked him, he had been knifed, and his wife and children opened doors, has helped provide some safety and security for while he continues to minister to refugees and bring them to faith in Christ, open doors has continued to support him in that work that he’s doing. So just neat to see that Christ wants to be known and Christ is going to great lengths to call people unto himself. And again, Christ’s spirit is active and is working in these places and all that the enemy may seek to do to extinguish the light of the church. We know that the church may come under duress, though the church may come under persecution. We know that Jesus themselves said that not even the gates of hell are going to prevail against the church. And we see that we have the privilege of walking alongside and being part of that church that not even the gates of hell are prevailing against.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:18):
That’s awesome. It’s so wonderful to hear a story of a Muslim who comes to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. My parents worked for 12 years in Kabul, Afghanistan, and so we love Muslims and we love praying for Muslims. And Jesus is doing a great work among many Muslims around the world. So thank you Mr. Ryan so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. Really appreciate you,
Ryan Brown | CEO of Open Doors (30:48):
Daniel. Thank you for what you’re doing just to call people into evangelism and to recognize it’s not just a side satellite activity, but it’s core to who we are. It’s core to what Christ has called us to. And so thank you for the work that you continue to do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:05):
Yes, sir.
Evangelism Podcast Host (31:06):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and is seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an altar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:08):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (33:29):
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Joseph Wilson | Persecution in India
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.
Connect with Joseph Wilson on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joseph.wilson.92372
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently, his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:31):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Joseph Wilson from the Nation of India. Thank you for joining me today.
Joseph Wilson (01:08):
Amen. Such a wonderful time that the Lord has given me and I’m so honored, excited to be over here and to be part of this podcast. And I tell you, my life was so much transformed with this man of God and I say one of the reason for me to be where I am today is this man of God has spoken a word over my life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:32):
Amen. Well, how long do you think we’ve known each other? When was the first time that we met? I
Joseph Wilson (01:39):
Have met you in the year 2005.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:45):
Wow. So we’ve been friends for a very long time now. It’s
Joseph Wilson (01:48):
A long
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:48):
Time and at that time we were doing many gospel festivals in the nation of India. My wife and I have such a great love for India. My wife Jessica actually lived in the nation of India for almost two years, and then I’ve been going and talking to people about Jesus and it’s so amazing the nation of India, 1.2 billion people. It’s a huge nation full of people that need Jesus.
Joseph Wilson (02:22):
Absolutely. And now the recent census of our country says we are with 1.4 plus billion people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
And so India continues to grow.
Joseph Wilson (02:33):
It’s continuing to grow, and as it continues to grow, it is giving us a lot of challenges to reach the people where our nation is needed to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:43):
Now, the first missionary who went to India was the Apostle Thomas.
Joseph Wilson (02:50):
Apostle Thomas. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:51):
The same doubting Thomas who doubted that Jesus came back to life, but after he became convinced of the Jesus’s resurrection, history says that he went to India.
Joseph Wilson (03:04):
He went to the India. Yes, you are right. He came to India and to his amazement, there were so many rituals taking place and there were belief and there were system that was not of God. They were in search of God, but in many different ways. But when Apostle Thomas came, he knew the real God. So he made excitement and then he performed the miracles where the people encountered God first. Ever since then, the kingdom of God is getting established in India,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:38):
And there’s actually many different religions in the nation of India. You are multi religion, multi-ethnic groups. So you have Christianity, you have Islam, you have many, many Hindus, many, many Hindus. You have the Sikh religion, Jainism and many other religions,
Joseph Wilson (04:03):
Many other religion. What amazes us is India is such a huge country with such a big religion aspect. Everyone in India are devotees to God, but they have different religious to teach them. And there’s Hinduism, Muslims, Jainism, Sikhism, and I tell you there are very different groups as well in India with hundreds and thousands, to our amazement, 33 millions of and goddesses our nation. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Let’s talk specifically about Christianity because there has been a lot of persecution that has come against religious minorities and in India, Christianity is a minority. Do you know what percentage of India would follow Jesus?
Joseph Wilson (04:55):
The census says that it is closely to 3% out of 1.4 billion people follows Jesus. Now, when I say 3%, I don’t mean that everyone loves Jesus out of this 3%, there are Catholics, there are atheists, there are people who are far away from Jesus, but just a name. Take Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:19):
So some of the 3% are only Christians in name only. But there has come a lot of persecution recently against the Christian churches in India. In fact, I was just sitting down a few days ago with one of my friends who is a pastor from Manipur and he was telling me that many of the churches in Manpo have been burned. Even the houses of some of the Christians have been burned and the Christians have had to flee from the cities up into the hills and they’re in hiding.
Joseph Wilson (05:57):
Yes, they are in hiding. This was happening up in the month of May. This is planned way beforehand for the persecution, being honest with you all. There were so many things that happened. The churches were burned, you were right. Many people left the houses and their houses was burned and to management. There were many women who were raped, paraded, naked, and I tell you, there was no words spoken by the government in behalf of them to ask them to be protected. But these riots have taken place and this is making chaos in our nation. Let me tell you, this is not the first time that has happened in the year 2008. There is a state called Ora where the same thing happened and let me be honest, with the same kind of a government which was running the state at that time. So there is on and off persecutions that are happening up. Evidently what I could say is it started with the little, but now it’s getting bigger. Bigger and the worst.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:06):
That’s very sad. And it’s not just the churches in Manipur that have been affected by this. You pastor and your church actually was burnt. Tell me what happened.
Joseph Wilson (07:20):
Yes, with the vision of God that I moved from my native town to a new city, which is called Miser, which has 1.3 million people and hardly 120 churches in the entire city. And out of that only 2% of them are Christians and out of 2%, when I say Christian, there are only 0.5 people who believe Jesus, not even 0.5. So God with the vision I have been to the city with the family. We planted a church. Our church is three and a half years old and we pray to God, take us to the people where you want me to serve. And we never knew the city. We don’t know anyone in the city. By faith, we moved as a family and we started a church through a plumber who comes to us. His aunt was with the cancer and that was a good opportunity. He said to me, this is what the conversation, who are you?
(08:18):
Then I said, Hey, I’m a pastor, pastor, what do you do? Then I said, I pray for the people. You left everything to pray for the people. Then I said, yeah, why? Then I said, I would love to see happiness in the life of people. I love to see blessings in the families. That’s why I came. He was amazed. We exchanged our numbers. He goes back after two days he calls me, you said you pray for the people. My aunt is with the cancer. She’s diabetic. She’s on the deathbed. Would you come and pray? I said, I would come. We went there. I tell you, we prayed. She’s still alive. The Lord healed and they took us to three new Hindu families and that’s how the church grew in our house. We began our church at house. As we were growing to 28 people, the neighboring people began to complain against us.
(09:14):
They complained to the police and the men in the families were against us and they wanted to put us in a prison. So the police intervention and the group of people intervention, we were forced to stop our church at home. We stopped our church, we began to zero. Then again, we started the church. That’s what our life is. We are called to reach the people. So we began the church at home again after eight months, and then immediately God helped us to rent a building. We went there. We started the church. As we started again, the Lord started to do signs, wonders, healings. Then the church began to grow. Now I tell you, 80 to 85% of the people who come to our church never heard about Jesus before. They were Hindus. Now as the church was growing, we started our church in February, 2020. Then 2021, July the second. People were so angry against us because they tried to stop us, threaten us, but we were not. We went on to do the church. Finally they did. They burned our church because we were not listening to their threats. They burnt our church. We lost the sound. I tell you, we lost everything. Everything but
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:41):
All your musical instruments, the sound system, yes,
Joseph Wilson (10:44):
Chairs,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:46):
Everything was burnt.
Joseph Wilson (10:47):
Everything was burned to the ashes, everything was burnt and the same night the police came. Now that city is new to me. I don’t know anyone. When the police came, I expected them to support me because I was the one who is in loss. But the police, they were more than 20 plus people and they said, who are you? Then I said, I’m Joseph. The response from them were, are you a Christian? Then I said, yes. What are you doing here? Then I said, I have a music class. Then they said, music, no, you are doing something. That’s why people have set fire on you. You have done wrong. That’s why people are upset on you. Now you come to the police, we are going to file a case against you and you need to fight it in the court
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:34):
Or And the police, after your church was burnt, they came and said that you are doing something wrong.
Joseph Wilson (11:41):
Absolutely. I was mistreated by the police. They interrogated me for more than three hours.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:49):
Wow. It’s really sad because according to the constitution of India, you are supposed to have freedom of religion.
Joseph Wilson (11:58):
Absolutely. The constitution of our nation gives us all the rights to speak. We have a freedom of religion, freedom of speech, but yet because of the power and the abuse, you of power and because of to gain some popularity, people are always throwing stones against Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:21):
Wow. So what ended up happening with your church, you had everything burnt, so you had to close down for a little bit, and then what happened?
Joseph Wilson (12:32):
We needed to close down. The police were against us. The people were against us. We lost everything. And the saddest part was they wanted to take me to the prison. But that night I was literally feared, but I saw the invisible hand of God helping and protecting. Then the Lord helped me to come out of that night and the next day the wise thing I did was to leave the city and go to the city where I was born. So I stayed in that city for more than one and a half month away. Then we closed our church after the issue was closed down, I came back. I started to clean the church and began to restore the church. The issue was done, but God intervened in such a way. There was a person whom I came in contact and they spoke to the police officers telling that he’s our guy, so he’s doing good. So because of the political influence and the word that I received, the police were subjective to the command of the authorities, and that is how God led us to come out of that kind of a situation. But they burned the church. It took us five months to restore the church and we closed it. But by God’s grace in December the 2021, we opened the church again, but glory to beat God that we haven’t lost anybody.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:57):
Wow. And how many people are attending your church right now? Right
Joseph Wilson (14:01):
Now our church is three and a half years old. We are with 80 people in the church, and I tell you, 30 people, we baptized them and there are more than 80% of the people were Hindus who never knew Jesus before.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:18):
Wow. What a great miracle. And I have to commend you for continuing on in what God has called you to do even in the midst of persecution. I know it’s not easy, but one of the things in your testimony that you have shared with me was the impact of one message that I preached many years ago and you heard the message and ever since it has been one of the defining messages of your life. Tell me about that.
Joseph Wilson (14:50):
Absolutely. I cannot leave this program without speaking that word. In fact, before I could say that statement, let me tell about a brief testimony. I was going through terrible times in my life. I never had anybody to support me or to strengthen me or to be a friend. I was going through such a deep down life. I was broken, my soul was broken, my future was blinded, and I failed my education and I was the only son to my parents, huge expectations, and I was growing up. There was no future for me. And there was so many things I tell you, nothing was going my way. Neither nothing was happening. What I was planning to do, everything was chaotic. At that moment of time, I decided to die. I decided to commit suicide because I don’t have future. I don’t have vision, I don’t have anything in my life.
(15:56):
So what I did was when I thought to die myself, one word that changed my life was Jeremiah 29 11. One of my friends sent me a text at the time where I was wanting to commit suicide that says, the Lord has plans to prosper you, to give you a future and a hope. When I read that s I felt peace in my heart, and that’s the time I saw new things beginning to happen. Right after that transformation, I come to a crusade in 2007, November the 11th. I still remember November the 11th, and there were more than 500 people in the auditorium. You were speaking in a conference. I was sitting on the tro. You were speaking about obeyed Iam. You were speaking about his origin. It was so great. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:55):
So Obed Edam is an obscure Bible character, but his story will change your story and it’s one of the messages I love to preach. In fact, I wrote a book about it called The Secret of Obed Edem, and he was the guy that was living beside the road, which led to Jerusalem. And one day, king David decided to bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. And so they passed in front of the house of Obed Edam and a tragedy happened. A man fell over dead when he touched the ark. And so King David said, forget about taking the arc to Jerusalem, put it in that house right there. And he pointed to the house of Obed Edam. And so they carried the Ark of the Covenant where the presence of God dwell and they placed it in the living room of Obed Edo. And in first Chronicles 13, it says that the arc of God remained in his house for three months and it says that God blessed his household and everything that he, so when the presence of God came into his house, he was blessed.
(17:54):
And so when you invite the presence of God into your house, you’re going to be blessed. But his story does not end there. It’s mentioned seven more times in scripture and he becomes addicted to the presence of God. Edam follows the Ark to Jerusalem and he starts to serve in the house of God. He starts out as a gatekeeper in the temple, then he becomes a heart player in the temple worship group. Then he becomes a leader. His entire family is serving God. And then the last time he’s mentioned, he’s the keeper of the temple Treasury. So we see this great promotion in his life. His story didn’t end at the beginning. He continued on.
Joseph Wilson (18:38):
Yes. And that’s what when us speaking, that was fascinating. My heart got connected to the word, and I still remember as you were preaching intensely bringing the word, you saw me, and this is the turning point of my life. You saw me in the middle of everything you just said, Joseph, stand up. I was shocked. I stood up. And this is the word that you said. Your story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:09):
Your story is not finished yet. Not
Joseph Wilson (19:11):
Finished yet. I was so thrilled the moment I was thinking my story is over, I don’t have any life. That’s the time you said your story is not finished yet. And you said, the way the Lord has blessed, obeyed I, your life will be blessed. Get ready for the promotions. And I tell you, I began my life from that situation. And from then on, I hold it onto that word to that says to me, my story has not finished yet. This is just the beginning. And I tell you today, I still look around myself and say, my story is not finished yet. And thus the way that the Lord blessed my life and for the past 16 years, I’m holding that word which I wanted to die, but that word gave me a life. That word gave me the vision. That word gave me a family. That word gave me future. That word gave me ministry. That word gave me friends. That word gave me such a confidence. Whatever I am doing today, it’s that word that put a foundation for my great faith in Jesus
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:23):
Christ. And so even when it was difficult to start a church, even when your neighbors were complaining, even when your church was burned and you lost everything, that prophetic word from the Lord, your story is not finished yet has continued to inspire you and motivate you, and you have to seek after the will of God for your life.
Joseph Wilson (20:50):
Absolutely. That word made such a terrible transformation, I tell you as obey was blessed step by step. And you said to me the same way, Joseph, your life God is going take you step by step. I remember sitting down and I became a worship leader. God started to upgrade me, update me to a translator. And I tell you, I was sitting in this man of God’s crusades and God made me to lead worship for his crusades and also to translate the word of God. So I am the example of how a prophetic word when we receive gets true. And I am very honored that I received it through this man of God. And I am the true example of that word. Your story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:39):
Amen. Well, that is a tremendous prophetic word that I believe will continue to work in your life. Amen. Because Joseph, your story is not finished yet. God has more for you. And I believe that God has more for the nation of India. Let’s talk a little bit more about the persecution that has happened in India. The constitution of India guarantees religious freedom. In Article 25 of the Indian Constitution, it says, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess practice and propagate religion. And so that is enshrined in your constitution, constitution. And so India is the largest democracy in the world. They have many elections and they’re supposed to guarantee freedom of religion, but that often has not happened. Often militant Hindus have harassed, they oppress, they attack Christians, and they even make laws restricting the freedom of Christians. They attack churches, they persecute people who would want to convert from one religion to the other. And they even have kicked missionaries out of the country and they have shut the door that anybody who would want to talk about Jesus, they refuse to give them a visa. So in effect, there is not freedom of religion. And so what do you think the church should do in the face of this persecution?
Joseph Wilson (23:29):
This is very much interesting in the face of persecution the churches are really going through. But one observation that I have made as it in the Book of Acts, when such kind of a persecution are going through it is dividing who the real people who are called to serve. There are people who are going back. There are people who are struggling, there are people who are giving up, but there are people who are marching forward to do what God has called to do. Now among all these persecution, definitely every tongue in India are praying for God for miracles to happen. Now, one thing that persecutions are happening up is, I’m sorry to say, because of the government, because they back up the people, the vanity groups, because of their political gain, they use the groups to attack the church and they want to win the elections or be in power in the name of religion. So that’s the biggest optical the church is facing. But among these things, it’s very hard to confine our growth only to one thing. It’s a challenge. We are accepting in reality about the challenge, but still we are commended to preach the gospel and to reach the people. So that’s the thing that we are doing in spite of all the things what’s happening up around.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:06):
And many of the states in India have passed what they call anticon conversion laws. What are those?
Joseph Wilson (25:15):
My state? My state was ruled by the government, which is running the country now. When they were in power, they were so much against the Christians and the churches. They finally brought an anticon conversion bill. Now I need to tell this, this anticon conversion bill is so, so cruel. If I go and share my faith to someone else, if they don’t like it, they can go to the police, file a complaint against me, and I would be put in prison non bailable warrant. I would be in prison for more than seven years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:00):
Just for talking to someone about your faith in Jesus.
Joseph Wilson (26:04):
Absolutely. Now, not only that, if I preach gospel to someone, if they get saved and they come to church, their whole family has the power to go to the police and say, Hey, somebody spoke to my son or my daughter, and they manipulated them so they can go and write a complaint against a pastor or an evangelist and they would be considered and the pastor or the evangelist or the churches would be put in prison. That’s the severeness of the law. We prayed. We prayed. But I tell you, God is so powerful in this year, in the month of May, 2023, the governments got changed. And the first thing the present government of my state has done is they have revoked the law forever.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:53):
And so in your state, in which state do you live
Joseph Wilson (26:56):
In? I live in the state of Karnataka. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:57):
In Karnataka. Now the Anticon conversion law is not on the books? No,
Joseph Wilson (27:04):
It’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:04):
Not on the books. But in some of the other states continues to, some
Joseph Wilson (27:08):
Of states still continue. I tell you, wherever the government is ruling the states, every state which is ruled by this government has been subjected for the Anticon conversion bill. And I tell you, it’s going to be hard if you run a church in a house, it is considered as illegal because you are getting people to your house and converting them. If you run a church in a rented buildings or the hotels, it’s not going to be considered as a church because that is a social gathering place. Now the government is bringing the law.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:43):
And then if you own the church, sometimes the churches get burned down.
Joseph Wilson (27:46):
Absolutely. If you own a church, they say, why are you getting people now? They are taking even the census of the church, how many people you have. After a year, they come back again and check the census. If they find out there are more number of people, they’re questioning who are they? How do they come to you? And if they come to church, the believers, they are cutting the access of provisions which are from the government for the poor people. That’s the saddest part. What’s happening up?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:20):
Wow. Well, we need to pray for the Church of India. I think even in the midst of persecution, it just makes the church to grow more and more and more because people will turn away from a hopeless religion to turn towards the hope that is found in Jesus Christ.
Joseph Wilson (28:42):
Absolutely, brother Daniel. We need our nation. Our churches need prayers to back us up. We need more prayers than ever before because we are in more danger than ever before. I say this word because from the politicians, the seed against Christians is now spread all across the nation where everybody are so passionate against the church and to see the end of the church or to see the destruction of church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:17):
Amen. Well, let’s finish by praying for the nation of India. You said that now the population is 1.4 billion people, a huge number of people, many who need to find Jesus Christ, the hope of Jesus, and to have the opportunity to be saved. So would you pray for the nation of India?
Joseph Wilson (29:41):
Absolutely. It’s my joy to pray for our country. We need prayer. We need Jesus. We need the kingdom of God to invade. And there is no greater power and strength than prayer. I would love to pray. Let’s pray. Dear Father, we thank you Lord for your unmerited favor and unconditional love towards us. Father, you are the same yesterday, today and forever. You love us the same. And Lord, we are here praying for our beautiful nation, India with 1.4 billion people. They need you, father. They need your kingdom. And we pray today how mercy on our nation, how your grace upon our nation, Jesus, let your kingdom rule and reign. We pray for all the people who needs to be saved because you shed your blood on the cross of calvary for the remissions of sins of every one. Oh God. And we pray that you would have mercy and grant salvation to our nation.
(30:56):
We pray whatever ways are being made hard to preach the gospel, that you will make a way for us to reach the communities, to reach the people. Lord, open the blind eyes to see you. Open the hearts to receive you. Father, let the word of God shine upon people and let people get saved. We pray for more people to serve you. We pray for the freedom of our religion of God. We pray for the freedom of our speech. We pray, father, that you would make roots to reach the people. And we pray for the politicians. We pray for the leaders. We pray for all the groups who are against your church. God, you transformed soul to Paul and that’s your power, and that’s what we pray. Transform the hard-hearted leaders and the politicians who are against your kingdom, who are against your gospel, and may your kingdom establish. Thank you for your saving grace and saving power. In Jesus’ name we pray, father. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:06):
Amen. Well, brother Joseph, I have a word from God for you. Your story is not finished yet. God has more for you.
Joseph Wilson (32:17):
Amen. I receive this word with joy and gladness, and I begin my journey again with a higher altitude of life telling to myself, my story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:31):
And so we are standing with you in India. We are praying for you in India. And I know that God will give us a great harvest of souls across the great nation of India.
Joseph Wilson (32:44):
Amen. I receive that. We believe that. And also I witness the crusades that you ministered thousands of people. What a joy was it for us to see you sacrificing your place in America, coming over there and preaching the gospel and ministering so many villages which never had Jesus before, never had church before because of you were yes to the Lord. Today. I see as a witness, there are hundreds of churches, thousands of people in the kingdom of God. And that’s what enlightens me, challenges me. When a man of God sacrifice and come to my country to speak. What am I doing? What are we doing? So your life is always an encouragement to me. Influence to me. And I tell you, words fail to describe how much impact you have created in me. One of the reason for me to go to the lost places and the lost people is you looking at the crus. That’s what my life has been in transformed. And here I’m as an example, doing what God has called to do. And that’s why again, I say my story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:01):
Amen. Thank you brother Joseph. Are
Evangelism Podcast Host (34:03):
You called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and is seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give antar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:05):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (36:25):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Lako Bedasso | What is God Doing in Ethiopia?
Lako Bedasso is the president of Ethiopia Full Gospel Church. He says his denomination has ten million people and 3,500 different churches. Today, he talks about the great harvest and the great challenges that are facing the Ethiopian church.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m very excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Laco Beso. Yes. He is one of the key leaders here in the nation of Ethiopia. Tell me a little bit about your denomination. You’re the president, what is God doing here in Ethiopia and what is God doing through the denomination?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah. it is a, this day is a time of harvest and the time of challenge for us nowadays. When I say the time of harvest, many people are coming to Jesus. A Ethiopian focus will believers church. I am a president for Ethiopian focus gospel will believers church. We have 10 million believers in 3,527 local churches that is organized in for regions.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
What a blessing. God is moving in such great ways here in Ethiopia.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah. The God is doing great work and, and great thing is happening now. There is one area, there is a, the area is controlled by rebellions before five man for three years it was suffering in that area. Now the pieces come, the intimidator who bring that peace is our pastor from that ethnic group. So among the Liberian ethnic group, in one day I baptize 107 believers. Wow. It is three weeks ago what is happening. So God is moving in our country and touching all ethnic group. Beside that, there is a challenge also, and nowadays there is 52 local church worshiping build is destroyed. It’s need to, for us to re reconstruct that one. And we are looking the people for <inaudible>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:24):
And so there is great persecution Yes. In some areas of Ethiopia. Yes. Yes. And they’ve destroyed over 50 churches. Yes. And now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:33):
And now you’re looking for help to come and, and rebuild.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes. Yeah. We are, we are praying to God to send someone to support and stand with us. And in 22 places it is very urgent. The people are coming up in the worshiping under some trees and under very small shade. So it, it’s in need. Great. Now, additionally, we need CRO in the, the people are very, very in need to come to Jesus. The gospel is very important to healing our country, to heal our people. So we, we like to invite you to come again and to preach in my country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:21):
Oh, thank you. I’ve been coming to Ethiopia ever since 2008. So 15 years now. The, this crusade we just did in Kemba is the 10th crusade that we have done here. And I have fallen in love with the people of Ethiopia. You know the United States is not mentioned in the Bible. Canada is not mentioned in the Bible, but Ethiopia is mentioned so many times in the Bible. And God has such a special plan for this nation and for the people. And I’m just so excited to see the, the amazing work that God is doing through your ministry. You and I actually met in South Korea. Yes. We were at the, the conference for the World Pentecostal Fellowship. Yes. And we were sitting on the bus together and you, you told me, you said, Daniel,
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Please,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:13):
You must come to Ethiopia, do a crusade, come and do a pastor’s conference. And so if, if I was to come, what, in what ways could I help your church? What, what, what could I do to be a blessing to you?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. And as you told me that, say that we met in, in South Korea conference. I am ambassador of Ethiopian at the, for the Pentecostal World Fellowship. Here I, this, this one
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
It’s beautiful pin. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So when you come to Ethiopia, number one, you share the grace of God that given to you to share for Roman and to pray for empowering of the ministers and the pastors. And number two, we invite the peoples from different part of the country and other Ethiopia, you know, the economic situation. Maybe you support, you support some of Fundis by, by by just having the room eating and all transportation for some people who do not have capacity to come this area in such way, if you support us, we need, moreover, we need your grace that God gave you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:46):
Oh, thank you. Well, I would be very honored to come and we must make plans because I believe that, that God will do something very great. If you’re listening to this, I have lots of missionaries and evangelists that listen, please come to Ethiopia. There is a great harvest here that people that are ready to come to Jesus. In the Book of Psalms, it says that Ethiopia shall quickly stretch out her hands towards God. And we have seen that so many times. And it’s so beautiful to see what God is doing here. Thank you, brother for being on the Evangelism podcast. Amen.