On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast Pastor Mark Clements and Evangelist Daniel King talk about the challenges and joys of church planting. This episode covers how to to hear God’s voice and how to encounter Him as you reach out to your community.
Read The Poet and the King by Mark Clements: https://amzn.to/4fFIjja
Transcript:
Pastor Mark Clements (00:00):
On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, pastor Mark Clements and evangelist Daniel King talk about the challenges and the joys of church planning. This episode covers how to hear God’s voice and encounter him as you reach your community.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (00:27):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
Daniel King. Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Mark Clements. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Pastor Mark Clements (01:04):
Oh, thank you for having me Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:06):
Alright, well let’s start with your testimony. How do you know Jesus?
Pastor Mark Clements (01:12):
Oh wow. Well, again, I feel like I’ve known him pretty much all my life. I came to the Lord at an altar call when I was six years old. I was baptized at 12 years old and then at 18 I was filled with the Holy Spirit. That was when Jesus really became real to me and I’ve been walking with him ever since. It’s just being a disciple following him wherever he leads. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:40):
Now you’re here in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Pastor Mark Clements (01:42):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:42):
And you are currently planting a church?
Pastor Mark Clements (01:45):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:46):
And over the last little bit of time that you’ve been planting this church, you’ve had some great successes. You’ve also faced some challenges. Tell me about that.
Pastor Mark Clements (01:56):
Yeah, so when we first moved here, we were praying as to why the Lord had called us to Tulsa and he gave us instructions to plant a church and to name it communion of the Lamb. So the focus of the mission, so to speak, was going to be communion centered around fellowship with Jesus and opening up the word discipling and just that type of ministry. And so as we prayed and asked the Holy Spirit for help and guidance, we began to just seek the Lord and he opened up the door for us to rent out a movie theater. That was kind of the first step of faith. And so we just
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:40):
Invited how much does it cost to rent out a movie theater?
Pastor Mark Clements (02:43):
It was pretty pricey. It was about $2,000 a month and that was after some back and forth. So at first. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:51):
It’s not cheap to do that or to start a church.
Pastor Mark Clements (02:54):
No, it’s not cheap. And so we had to cut into some of our savings and it was definitely a sacrifice, but we were like all on the line, give it to Jesus and we trusted him with providing it. And he did provide for the season that we were there at that movie theater. But we just went around to our community, we made flyers and we passed out to any and everybody and we just invited anyone who was willing to come. And so that scripture says, behold, I stand at the door and I knock, if anyone opens, I’ll come into him and I’ll dine with him. And that was our theme really was like he’s knocking at the door, let him in. And so we would go around to our community and just invite anyone. And some people would come, some people wouldn’t. But it’s the invitation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:45):
And so you were going out inviting everyone you met, giving them flyers and inviting them to come. What did your flyers say? Did they say New church plant or come to Communion of the Lamb?
Pastor Mark Clements (03:55):
Yeah, it was just communion of the lamb. And we would pass around and we would pray for people and stuff and we would just say, Hey, come to our new church plant and we’re planting it and we’re meeting in a movie theater. But again, some people came and it was mainly a lot of believers that were coming. And we realized that that was really our focus was for edifying believers or young believers in the Lord and instructing them in discipleship more so than bringing in new people I guess, because some people they look at us kind of crazy, what on earth are you doing it? But that’s just the way it is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
And so then for a time you moved your church into the prayer room at my Home Church Victory Church. Someone there opened up the door for you to do that?
Pastor Mark Clements (04:46):
Yeah, absolutely. So we were talking with our pastors, the actually young adults pastor at the time, and we were just going to explaining our circumstance. We actually asked him to be our spiritual covering through the whole process and transition. And he agreed. And so he said, I think that the time it was really a threshing floor experience, the movie theater. We just had to give our all for it. And then again, through that transition, he opened up the prayer room and said just the amount of people that were coming at the time that it was okay to meet there. And I think at maximum we reached 40 people that came and praying and prophesying just the Holy Spirit was moving. And so yeah, that was that time. And then
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:39):
That’s one of the things I really like about my home church victory. They’ve always been very generous With People with other churches. I remember I had a good friend, he was the pastor of an Assembly of God church here in Tulsa and there was a big tornado that came through and completely wiped out his church. And so the next day pastor Billy Joe Dougherty, who was the pastor at that time, called him and said, you can use our church building for as long as you need it until your church is put back together. And so they ended up meeting in a victory building for a year while their church was going through the insurance process and then rebuilding and stuff. I think that’s a good attitude to have about the body of Christ because we’re really all in this together. It’s Not about one church. It is about us together as the body of Christ. And when the tide comes into a harbor, all the boats are lifted. And so I think sometimes people, they’re drawing lines of separation saying, you’re that church, we can’t work with you. And I don’t think that’s God’s heart. God wants us to be together. And that’s really one of the giftings of the evangelists going into a community is to bring churches together and to say, Hey, we’re all doing this together for the kingdom of God. So you were there in the prayer room for a while and then now you’ve moved the church into your house?
Pastor Mark Clements (07:13):
Yes. Well, originally we had just basically gotten too big and we were like, we didn’t want to overbear the prayer room. And there was just some confusion in the leadership there as well. So we just were like, okay, this is the time we prayed. We felt like we were led to leave. And so we stepped away and started meeting in this lady’s house. So she opened up her house to us and we kind of bounced around from different houses in the community, the people that were coming to our ministry. And through that I think that some people got turned off with it like where are we meeting? And so there’s some complications there, but it’s just like Acts going house to house. And so whoever was willing to open up their house, that was where we were. But then there was just some, again, it’s just how it happens. People leave and we ended up just saying, okay, well we will open up our house, we’ll host it for where we are. We have a pretty small house right now where we live in an apartment. And so that’s why.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:17):
And you just had a new baby.
Pastor Mark Clements (08:20):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:20):
Congratulations.
Pastor Mark Clements (08:21):
Thank you. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:22):
So then the small house gets even smaller. Even smaller. Everyone be quiet. The baby’s sleeping. Yeah.
Pastor Mark Clements (08:30):
But that’s the thing. I mean, we’ve been vulnerable and we’ve opened up our hearts. We’ve opened up our house to the ministry, to church because it’s about living the gospel. It’s not just about talking about the gospel, it’s rooted in gospel living. So it’s not just like Sunday is church day, it’s every day living as a disciple, which means that it’s not just meeting on Sunday. I’ll have people come over to my house and we’ll pray together throughout the week. We’re living life together. And that’s really what being a follower of Jesus looks like.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:08):
So what advice would you give to a young man who maybe wants to be used by God, has a gift for teaching, feels called to maybe be a pastor? What advice would you give to someone who maybe is thinking about trying to start a church?
Pastor Mark Clements (09:27):
Well, I would first of all say stay humble because pride comes before the fall. I know that there was definitely several seasons where that was the root of a lot of attack in my life, spiritual attack. It was rooted in just pride or maybe just ambition of I’m going to be this great person and it’s really about Jesus. It’s centered around Christ. It’s not me or my ministry. And so it’s exactly like what you were saying. We’re all on the same team. We’re all pursuing and following Christ. And so just for people that are looking to start a ministry, start in just the relationships that you already have, the friend group that you have. Invite them to come over to a Bible study at your house and just pray for the Holy Spirit. If you have the gift of teaching, that’s wonderful. Go ahead and open up your scripture and begin to say, Hey, do you want to come over and learn about the scripture with me? And that way it’s a little less intimidating than come to my new church plant. It’s more like, come over. Let’s have a cup of coffee. Let’s talk about Jesus. That’s really, I think is what makes the connection and it’s through those relationships that are formed early on that you’ll really establish a long-term covenant faithfulness with the people that are following Jesus With you,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:02):
Just hearing you talk, I sense that you love Jesus a lot. Let’s talk a little bit about Jesus. What does Jesus mean to you?
Pastor Mark Clements (11:10):
Oh wow. Well, he’s my everything. He’s my life. He’s my light. He’s my hope. He’s my future. He’s my past. I mean, he’s everything to me. I wouldn’t be where I am without him, and it’s his precious blood that’s made him mine and I am his, and he’s bought me with a price. I mean, it’s just the love of Christ and just the invitation to come and sit at his table and dine with him for eternity. He’s the king of kings. I mean, we’re not talking about just some random man here like Jesus is God. He is the one who created the world. He’s the one who was and is, is to come. And he’s invited us into an intimate and loving and personal relationship. And for us to daily reject that, it breaks my heart. It grieves the Holy Spirit that he’s knocking and people are just closed off to it and that they don’t accept the invitation to come and sit with him.
(12:18):
And so Jesus to me, I mean he’s everything because I mean, it’s literally again, when I came to Jesus, it’s through his death and resurrection that I’m made new. It’s through his death that I died with him. It’s through his burial that I’m buried with him in baptism, and it’s through his resurrection life that I’m raised up as a new creation in Christ Jesus. Everything that I once was is gone. It’s dead. It’s in the grave. It’s past me. And I look as Paul says, I look onto the things, not that I’ve already apprehended, but I press onto the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. I forget the former things and I consider those new things that are in heaven as I pursue those goals. That’s the upward call, that’s the prize is Jesus. It’s just to know him and the power of his resurrection. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know how it’s to say it. It’s just Jesus. And it’s only the spirit who gives us the power to love him and to love him with the, I guess true love. And in sincerity to say that I count all is lost for the prize, the gem, the diadem in the hand of the Father, which is Christ. It’s just beautiful. He’s beautiful, Daniel. I love him. He’s my everything. He’s my beloved. And I just, that’s it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:00):
Amen. That is awesome. Jesus is awesome. May I ask, how old are you? I’m
Pastor Mark Clements (14:07):
23.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:08):
You’re 23. So you’re still young. You’re a little bit younger generation than what I am. What do you feel are some of the questions and concerns of people your age that they’re asking about spiritual things? Do you sense here in America there is a hunger for the things of God? Are people totally turned off to God? In your conversations with young people, what type of questions are you hearing?
Pastor Mark Clements (14:40):
Well, it’s kind of a spread because there’s people that are interested and then there’s people that are just not, and really the question that’s being asked, and I feel like the Lord is actually asking this question to America right now is who do you say I am? Because the answer to that question is going to basically change the way that you follow Jesus. If you think that Jesus is just a nice guy who’s made a way for you to have eternal bliss, then it’s like that’s a little bit different than, oh, he’s the one who’s coming to judge the living and the dead. There’s a distinct difference there. And so it’s like, who do you say that Jesus is? And I think that what I’ve seen a lot in my generation is just apathy.
(15:37):
They may say, yes, I’m hungry for Jesus. I want something. I think that there’s something deep inside us all that craves Jesus. There’s something that can only be satisfied in Christ, and it’s the deepest desire of our heart to have a relationship with God. I think that it’s just people are not willing to pay the price to follow Jesus because it requires denial. It requires cross bearing. And so there is that hunger that I see in a lot of people, but they’re just not willing to pay the price. And so it’s, who do you say Jesus is? If he really is the Messiah, if he really is the one who can save us out of our sin, if he is really is the one who died and rose again, who we put all of our hope, who will return one day to establish an eternal kingdom, then he’s worth the risk. He’s worth following him. He’s worth the cross bearing and the suffering now. So I guess the questions that I’m hearing a lot is just how do I follow Jesus? I mean that’s really what it comes down to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:49):
I saw online that you have written a book called The Poet in the King, and so it looks like it’s a book of poetry.
Pastor Mark Clements (16:59):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:59):
Of worship to Jesus.
Pastor Mark Clements (17:01):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:01):
What is it about poetry that helps you to express your love for God? And can you quote a poem for
Pastor Mark Clements (17:09):
Us? Well, no, I don’t have one by memory yet, but yes, there’s just this, I don’t know. There’s a wellspring that’s in the heart of a believer that’s in fellowship with God, and Jesus is the word. He’s the word made flesh. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God. And so I think you’ll see it throughout scripture. There’s a prophetic just expression of poetry that wells up, and it’s just this love that is spewing over. I mean, you really contain it. You just have to write it down. You have to express it in song or in hymns. And I think that’s what even the New Testament says is being filled with the Holy Spirit singing Psalms in hymns and spiritual songs. And it’s like the expression of being filled with the spirit is to actually overflow and love songs to Jesus. And so just any anyway, to express my love for Jesus, that’s what I do. So it can look like expressing it in a song or a hymn in a poem, or it could look like just cleaning the dishes for my wife.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:30):
Yeah, my daughter, Katie Grace is 12 years old and she has been reading through the Psalms. And so every night before she goes to bed, her and I get together and we read two or three or four Psalms depending on how long they are. And I’ve really been struck reading through them the sense of poetry and worship to God where the Psalm writers, they’re dealing with very human conditions, several, several of the Psalms of David. He’s like, everything’s going wrong. Life is horrible. Nothing’s working out. Everyone’s angry with me. God, I don’t even know where you are, but yet I will praise you and I will worship you, and I know that you’re there for me. And it kind of, by the end of the psalm, it comes back around To Him worshiping God. It’s really beautiful because life is like that. There are highs and lows. I mean, the conditions of humankind are the same all over the world. People feel pain, suffering, loss, but there’s something about worshiping God through poetry that allows that to come out and then to express how we feel through metaphor, through beautiful words. But then to turn our attention back,
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (19:57):
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Pastor Mark Clements (20:58):
Like, praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. And so there’s this, you walk through that crucible, really, and it produces a faith that is, it’s precious. It’s more valuable than gold and silver. It’s refined through those hard questions that’s like, why is suffering allowed? There’s a lot of really challenging things that people go through, but in the end, it all leads to praising Jesus. And that’s really, again, it’s what you said, it’s what our lives are geared towards. We walk through suffering, and in the end, it produces faith in us so that we can praise him.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:42):
We’ve just entered a new year, 2025, and God is doing a new thing this year. What do you feel is a prophetic word for the body of Christ during this time? Oh goodness. Wow. What is God saying to the body of Christ?
Pastor Mark Clements (22:08):
Well, I feel like he’s been saying a lot, but again, it really, it’s just turn come back to me. He’s bringing repentance back to the church and true repentance, which looks like steadfast covenant faithfulness to the Lord. It’s interesting because in the Bible, you see throughout the prophets, all of them, they stir up an accountability for the people of Israel. They were always speaking back of the person of Yahweh, the God of the Bible, who delivered them out of Egypt. He would say, whenever the prophet would speak in the name of the Lord, they would say, I am the God who brought you out of the land of Egypt. And I think the Lord is saying the same thing he’s saying to the body of Christ, now I am the Lord who brought you out of your sin and shame and therefore turn and follow me. And so it’s, it is been the same thing throughout the generations. But really the new thing that the Lord is saying is the old thing. It’s Jesus. It’s the eternal one. That’s what’s going to unify us all. That’s the hope of glory is Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:38):
Well, let’s finish by praying. For those who are listening, would you just pray that Jesus would manifest himself in a greater way in our lives than ever before?
Pastor Mark Clements (23:51):
Amen. Father, I thank you for the listener. I thank you Lord for your presence that’s even with them. Now, I pray that you would give them the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of you, and that you would open the eyes of their hearts, that they would be enlightened to the truth of the gospel, the truth that Jesus, you are the eternal one, that you are the one who was and is and is to come. And yet you are there present with them, sitting with them now. You see all of their flaws, all of their pasts, all their present. You see their present turmoil and the stress that they’re going through now. But Lord, I just pray that you would wash over the listener now with your peace and with your faith, your assurance in the hope that we have as believers, that you will return one day. You will establish an eternal rule and an eternal kingdom, and you’re trustworthy Jesus. So I pray that you would just reveal yourself to the listener in an experiential way. Show them how much you love them, Lord, just reveal with the power of your presence, the power of your spirit. Oh Lord, we thank you Lord, in Jesus name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:11):
Amen. Well, mark, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Pastor Mark Clements (25:16):
Amen. Thank you for having me. Daniel,
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (25:18):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give antar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:19):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Announcer (27:39):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
