1 877-431-4276Paul Fraser | Multiplying Churches in Canada
Paul Fraser is in charge of Championing, Training, and Resourcing Disciple-Makers for the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC). He leads the Multiply Network which mentors and trains church planters across Canada. Their goal is that every Canadian will have an access point to the gospel. Today we talk about what God is doing in the nation of Canada!
Questions:
How are you helping churches to multiply?
What church growth strategies are working in Canada right now?
What trends does the PAOC see happening right now in your network of churches?
What do see are the challenges and opportunities for reaching people for Jesus in the Canadian context?
Learn More About the Multiply Network: https://paocmultiply.com/
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Paul Frazier is in charge of championing training and resourcing disciple makers for the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC). He leads the Multiply Network, which mentors and trains church planters across Canada. Their goal is that every Canadian will have an access point to the gospel. Today we talk about what God is doing in the nation of Canada.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:41):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, Paul Frazier. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Paul Fraser (01:19):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
All right, well let’s start at the beginning. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Paul Fraser (01:29):
Yeah, so been in ministry now 25 years. Went to Bible college right outta high school and got married early. Went right into ministry, pastor in a local church, worked at a Christian school for a bit as a campus pastor. Ended up working at a regional district office as the district youth director and eventually kind of not aged out, but then kind of moved on to running our church, planting for our district, among other things. And now I work at the P A U C national Office as the National Church Multiplication Coordinator, which is the sister organization to Assemblies of God, us, and get an opportunity to work with some of the best leaders pioneering, entrepreneurial coming from all over the world to help us reach people in Canada through church planting. So it’s, it’s a great job. Love doing it. Lots of travel, get to meet some great people. So just really enjoying this season of ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
Yeah, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, the P A O C is just a great organization. About how many churches are in the P O P O A C right now?
Paul Fraser (02:42):
Yeah, so we would, we would have about somewhere around 1100 or maybe, you know, 10 80 to 1100, somewhere in there of self-governing churches at probably another 150, 130, somewhere in there. We’re, we’re somewhere around 1200 altogether with satellite campuses, self-governing churches, and right across Canada. And we have eight districts. And so, yeah, it’s really, it’s, we’ve had a great, we, we just turned a hundred years old in 2019 and you know, had tremendous growth for the last 20 years or so. Just been plateauing, incrementally growing. So within the last 10 years we’ve had a really big push on church planting and just seeing some really fun, great results from that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:33):
And so you’re leading the multiply network and I really like what it says on your website that your goal is that every Canadian would have a, an access point to the gospel. And so talk to me a little bit about kinda what God is doing in Canada, what opportunities you see, and then what challenges the church in Canada is facing right now.
Paul Fraser (03:59):
Yeah, great, great questions and thanks for referencing that cuz that is, that is our big tagline. If, if you don’t have a burden for the lost, you shouldn’t be planting a church. Like we’re not just looking to have more services for church people. There has to be a real sense of Yeah, like your church, your people, your social media, your everything could be an access point to the gospel for people to find Jesus, to have that life transforming love affect their life. And we’re in a interesting I don’t know where you’re listening from in the world today, cause I know these podcasts, the world just made is so much smaller. But in Canada, we, you know, we’ve lived in a post kind of Christian age for you know, I don’t know, maybe 20, 30 years. It depends who you, depends who you ask.
(04:51):
And so it’s great because on the one hand, people don’t have a lot of history of like, well, you know, I got hurt by church cuz I, you know, I did this and that. But it’s like, there’s a real sense of like curiosity. You know, there was a time in Canada probably just like the US where 90% of Canadians went to church. Of course that was the early 19 hundreds and everyone went to church on Sunday. It was kind of cultural and everyone did that. And now, you know, right around that 10% or a little less in Canada. So we really see a need for fresh expressions, new ways to reach people far from God and and to work with younger leaders who have a different call maybe than what I had and what my parents had and are like, are being creative and, and getting excited about trying new things and experimenting.
(05:42):
And so I’m really grateful that I get to be a part with them, provide maybe the banks of the river <laugh>, you know, for some of these young leaders that wanna do something like, hey, let’s, let’s, let’s do that, but let’s also have some structure. Let’s also have some of this. And so the opportunities here are, I actually think people are open to spirituality. There’s an openness to prayer, there’s an openness to hearing what you believe. And so, you know, used to be, you know, evangelism was, you know, very different. It was, you know, how I kind of described it in Canada was, you know, invite people to church. The pastor invites them to Jesus. And if we’re on the ball, we invite them into our life. And that’s, that can still work, that there’s nothing wrong with that. But I think maybe a more effective model is maybe invite them into your life.
(06:38):
You invite them to Jesus. And then church makes so much more sense. Like when I ch mean church, I mean the Sunday gathering. So I just think there’s an opportunity for people every day living on mission, you know, reading the great commission as, as you go about your day make disciples. And so there’s a lot of like yeah. So there’s a lot of opportunity out there. And I would say the obstacles are probably the same. Most places that there’s a hardness of heart scriptures tell us that the God of this world is blinded the eyes of man, and so they just can’t see. And so we, so we bump into those things. There’s an apathy at times within our church culture, perhaps that’s a bit more consumer, less about cause. And so, you know, I get concerned about that. I get concerned about when people think all I need to do to be a Christian is attend church regularly, give and volunteer, and then I’m fulfilling, you know, my role. And I just think, no, Jesus, Jesus is also concerned about some other things about you living on mission every day, 24 7. He’s Lord all the time. So I think we bump into the same obstacles. I mean, we could talk culturally even from this, even though Canada and the US are right next to each other, there’s some significant change, you know, differences in thinking there. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:59):
What are, what,
Paul Fraser (08:00):
What do you say?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:00):
But I would say see are some of the differences between the United States and Canada as far as church culture and, and, and reaching out to people. I, I’m, I’m very interested in this because I, I’ve actually been praying a lot for Canada. My wife is Canadian. She grew up in Morville, small town right outside of the Edmonton area.
Paul Fraser (08:23):
I know where that is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:23):
And yeah so I met her in the middle of Africa. She was a missionary girl sent out from Canada. And so God brought us together. And since I’m married to a Canadian now our ministry is is an official charity in Canada, king Ministries Canada. And, and so every year we go up to visit her family up in Morville. And I, I usually preach at different churches in, in different parts of Alberta and in other parts of Canada. So I’ve really been praying for Canada. I’ve been praying for revival to come to Canada. But as an American, you know, it’s, it’s easy to be perceived as being too pushy. I think Americans tend to be more pushy than Canadians and Canadians. They don’t like that. And so what are, what do you see are some of the differences between America and in Canada?
Paul Fraser (09:16):
Yeah, like it, we have a big, like a big value on individuality, you know, so we would, and I don’t know if this is true anymore, but when I grew up, you know, going to high school, it was kind of like Canada was this multicultural individualistic, you can, you can be whatever you need to be, however you need to be. But in the US it was, and so we called that, you know, the multiculturalism of Canada. And then a bit of a, and of course in the US this has changed significantly since I’ve been to high school. But just kind of that melty pot where it’s like, no, if you moved to the US you’re American. But in Canada you would be like, you know, African Canadian or you know, you’re from, you’re, you’re, you’re from Spain, but you’re also Canadian. But so there’s, there’s a sense of individuality.
(10:06):
So we get offended easy. So that’s why we get, sometimes when people get, we perceive as pushy, it’s like, whoa, hey, can’t we all just get along here? And it’s like, so I find the directness of like, at least in churches being d it’s easier to be direct. I find it’s easier to have conversations with people in the us I think it’s like, honestly, when I travel, I was down for conferences twice this year already. And just sitting down at tables talking with people, it’s just like, wow. Like, they’re just so easy. And because we’re individualistic, we feel like we don’t wanna talk to people about our personal lives or faith and we don’t wanna offend. That’s like, like the cardinal sin of being. And so if you offend, you always say, you know, I’m sorry there’s a, you know, we always get Canadians like just, they’re so apologetic because we’re always offended it. So I think we, I’m
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:00):
Sorry for being sorry so much <laugh>. I’m sorry for being so
Paul Fraser (11:03):
Yeah, like, I’m sorry for being sorry. And I’m sorry that it offended you and all of those things. And, but when it comes to church planting we’re one-tenth the size of the US And so when sometimes the books get written from a US perspective saying, oh, your launch team needs to be this many people and you should have this many people on Sunday. And you know, this is how fast. And you hear the stories of like, yeah, we started in our garage and we grew to 500, you know, in six months. And those stories happen because the population density is, is different. There I think there’s a bit more openness maybe to, to coming to a Sunday gathering where there’d be less in Canada. And we just find like a 500 person church in Canada is like bordering on large. Like if you’re 500 person, you’re so times 10, that’s a 5,000 person church Yeah.
(11:55):
In the us. And so I think we always feel a little like, like, you know, just we’re the little brother for sure in that. And so we kind of resist some of the, you know, US strategies for church planning cuz they just don’t jive the same. So I think we grow a little bit more organically in our thinking and we’re less like big box store structure. I think we’re a little bit more agile, we’re able to explore things a little bit different. Of course those are huge generalizations and, but that would just be some of my takes as I go to church planning conferences and leadership and different things like that as it relates to church world. But, and send some of the cultural differences there as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:37):
Yeah. So in the Canadian context, what are you doing to help churches to multiply and grow?
Paul Fraser (12:49):
Yeah, so obviously sharing the vision of church multiplication the opportunity for us to reach people far from God, I, I try to remind a church planter as they’re like trying to figure out banking and trying to figure out structures and finances and all these things and teams. And I try to remind them like, Hey, picture that first person that gets saved on a Sunday. Or, you know, you know, someone says from your, your core team, they got like picture that. And so keeping the vision of why we’re doing it is really important when a church planter or somebody, and again, I think church planting is one of the most effective ways in North America to reach people far from God. I think there’s a lot of status that would support that. Even the eyeball test for me as I go around different churches and compare size of church and look at their stats year over year to an existing church that there are more salvations that happen in a church plant.
(13:50):
But, you know, keeping the vision in front of them, keeping it like, this is why we’re doing it. We’re, we’re not. Just like, one of the things that I think maybe church planting 20 years ago was built more around, we’re planting a service, not a church. Like let’s just plant a gathering. And then, because that was a really effective way to reach people. And it was. But I think less and less certainly post covid, we’re seeing like regular attendance to a church now be 2.2 times a month. And we’re seeing boomers not come back to church. And, and gen Xers specifically are two groups that just are not, they’re not coming back millennials with young families and Gen Xers or sorry, gen Z. They seem to be, you know, finding their way back to, you know, houses of worship in, in, in churches.
(14:38):
But yeah, man, I, I think, I think just keeping the vision in front of them, like this is why we do it. And this is, and, and if you went on a website too, I think somewhere else we try to exist to take the guesswork out of it to help churches because they don’t have time to read all the books, they don’t have time to do all the training, they don’t have time to do all the steps that are needed to help get a new disciple making community going. So we try to come alongside them and support them. We’re, we want to come alongside their vision, their idea, but we, but obviously we wanna share like, yeah, we, we need to be like planting churches cuz we’re closing churches not to the, and at least in our POC tribe we’re slightly outpacing our closures with new starts and that’s just not, we’re not gonna reach Canada incrementally. It’s gotta be this multiplication, exponential thing. And so sharing the vision of like, you can start a church, you can do it, maybe it’s micro church, maybe it’s a campus, maybe, you know, it’s an organic grow where you look at a town next to you and you start an alpha and you know, everybody can kind of do something. Everyone can be an access point to the gospel. And so we just try to share that vision and get them and equip them and train them as best we can.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:57):
Now I, I really like the fact that you are mentoring in coaching church planners. So kind of talk me through that process. If you have a, a young man of God who comes to you and says, I it’s really been on my heart to, to start a church, I really feel a call to, to be a ministry, to be a pastor. How would you encourage him to, to plan a church and then walk him through the process? How, how long does that process take and and what are some of the things that you’re telling him?
Paul Fraser (16:29):
Yeah, so we, we have you know, church planters who kind of jump into our pipeline either at the district level or at a national level. And one of the things that, there is a book some years ago written by, I’m just trying to look for it on my shelf to get their, I think it’s called The Honest Guide to Church Planting by Tom Bernardo. And I get them to read that book and if they still want to plant churches, like after reading that book, then it’s like, okay, that’s like a good first step and literal, legit, that’s what I’ve done. I’m like, please read this book because it’s honest. Like, hey, the people you start with won’t be the people there in three years. You know, and you know, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. People say they’re with you and then won’t.
(17:11):
And then new people will come with new ideas and try to shift the vision and you know, all those things. And so if you read that, that’s great. But so we try to get them like, ah, tried to get them to realistically look at not an ideal world like dream world, that this is what, you know, I hear all the church planting stories and everything’s gonna be like this. Like it’s actually hard work, it’s a grind. Making disciples isn’t easy reaching people far from God and getting into that culture. So I try to get, you know, try to figure out, okay, how serious are you about it? Have you read this book? What do you think? So we talk about that. But as we go through the coaching there, there’s also an assessment that needs to happen. It’s not just good enough that you’re called, there’s a certain skillset set that you’re gonna need for a certain, you know, whatever model of church planting.
(17:59):
So we walk them through pre-assessment and then we walk them through a formal assessment after that. That would then kind of kick in some coaching. It would kick in some training. And you know, to do most launch model churches, you’re looking at about nine to 12 months. Cuz there’s fundraising that needs to happen. There’s training, team development, finding space leasing, all those things. So I try to you know, try to get them thinking like, if you want to start in September, you’re going to need, you know, really to be hitting it pretty hard in January. Now some guys start a year out and I think if you get your team meeting too early, you’ll lose a bit of steam when you actually need it in launch season. So there’s this like balance of like, yes, I want to get the team on board, but I don’t wanna start too early.
(18:55):
Cuz our launch is still nine months away. So yeah. But it’s usually about nine months in and monthly coaching I’m available. Our district lead teams or multiply network lead team is available to answer questions. And so what makes our movement a little interesting is it’s not standardized. Every district has a different process. So I try to learn all the processes and then just come alongside them. We’re working on talking about standardizing some things, but you know, we’re literally, the multi-network is here to serve them. And so whatever we can do to help them, we do. But yeah, I actually am a certified life coach and so this is just really up my alley and I love doing it and just really helping, helping them get from where they are today to where they want to be. That’s just a real big dream of mine.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:47):
Yeah, coaching is so valuable. You can either learn from your mistakes or you can learn from someone else’s mistakes. And so a coach can help you avoid some of the, the big mistakes that that might be made. What are some of the, the mistakes that church planners sometimes make that you can help them to avoid?
Paul Fraser (20:06):
Yeah, so I think, I think starting to early with a team, that that is definitely one leaving fundraising too late is another thing where you don’t say, yeah, you know, I’m working on building the team. It’s like, have you talked to any donors yet? Have you talked to your district? Have you talked to churches that might, oh no, yeah, I’m gonna get to that. And you know, we try to build in to their training, like have one conversation a week, nine months out. Because sometimes it takes two or three or four or five meetings before a donor feels comfortable. Like, oh, this is actually gonna go. And one of the important things that we try to drill in is like, hey, donor confidence is critically important. So have good reporting, have good, all of that. I would say what’s a, what’s another mistake that that planters, oh, they try to do too much on their own and they don’t rely enough on team.
(21:07):
So you wanna make sure you have a team, develop your team, spend time with them take time to think through your discipleship pathway. That’s huge. Like what is it? And if I walked into your church day one, could your core team tell me the next step? Like what’s the next step in discipleship? Are they aware of your discipleship pathway? Cause I ask pastors all the time, Hey, do you guys have a discipleship pathway? Yes we do. Great. Does anyone know it? Like, is it functioning? Is it clear? Do, does your board know it? Does your your team know it does, you know, so we don’t wanna be planting churches that don’t have disciple making culture. So I drill down like, you tell me someone walking off the street who’s never heard the name of Jesus before and get them to be a leader in your church.
(22:02):
What’s the process? And that’s, that’s the kind of thinking I really, really want to have in our new churches that we start, is that disciple making culture. Cause I think we overlook it and think, well, discipleship will just kind of accidentally happen. No, no. What’s the intentional process, steps training that you need to build this culture in your church? That’s critically important. And yeah, and it’s, and just, I think people get excited about having space and thinking that it’s gonna be theirs forever. And the reality is you’ll move probably several times before you’ll find a more permanent space. And, and you just gotta be okay with the, you gotta be okay with flexibility. We try to drill that in, don’t be too rigid, don’t try to get too worked up about how things aren’t moving. So there’s a, I don’t know, just off the top of my head, those are some of the things that I think through and try to help planters think through.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:02):
What would an ideal discipleship process look like? I, I think that’s a great question. If you have someone coming off the street who doesn’t know Jesus and, and you wanna bring them through their relationship and eventually become a leader in the church, what are some discipleship processes that you’ve seen that, that you really think other churches should, should emulate?
Paul Fraser (23:25):
Yeah, so this is probably the most, probably the most simple one that I, that I, I’ve created with our, our training. It was, it comes from actually Dr. Howard Hendricks years ago, and I can’t remember where, if I was at a conference or I heard it on a tape. Remember when we used to have tapes, you could have a tape.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:42):
That was a long time ago.
Paul Fraser (23:44):
That was a long time. Like back
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
When Jesus walked on the earth. Yeah,
Paul Fraser (23:48):
<Laugh>. Yeah. So I think he captured something that was really, really important. He talked about characteristics of a disciple. So I’m not, I don’t care how this gets done, I don’t care where it gets done. I just want to ensure that that person walking off the street has these three things that are being built into them. The characteristics of a disciple, again, from Dr. Howard Hendricks, first one, are you a learner? So you need someone to ensure what that this new person is. What are they learning? Second thing, who are they following? So do they have, and again, now today with content being so accessible, you actually have to get into people’s lives. Like who are you listening to? Like who are you, what podcast? Like, but to have someone just walking with them again, dec decide you can’t disciple from a distance very well.
(24:40):
You’ve gotta be, there’s a proximity piece. So what am I learning? Who am I following? And then there needs to be evaluation of what’s being reproduced in my life. And I think we need to spend a little bit more time on that thing, making sure that the people we’re discipling are producing the fruit of the spirit. So we actually go through it with them. How’s your love level, joy, peace, patience, kindness. Because when you’re connected to Christ, you bear this, you don’t have to work hard. So this is a, this is a telltale sign that you are connected to Jesus if this fruit is growing in your life. So you ask questions like, how’s your patience level with your kids? Not great. Okay, how do we fix that connection to Jesus? Great. how’s your, you know, how’s your self-control not great? Okay, great.
(25:32):
How do we fix that connection to Jesus? And so we can, we can use those characteristics as a way, and again, that can have through small groups one-on-one. I think Sunday mornings can play a huge part in that on the teaching and inspiration, that type of thing. And then at some point they turn from learner follower, reproducer to a teacher leader and multiplier. So when you, when you’re, when you feel like you, what am I learning? Who am I following? What’s being reproduced in my life? Then, then we ask you to be a teacher. What are you teaching? How are you leading and what are you multiplying in others? So there’s that, there’s that you start as the student, but at some point the discipleship process should lead you to you know, teacher leader and then multiplier. So I try to, I say I don’t care how that shows up, but are those characteristics being built into the culture of your church? And if they are, then there’s a good chance that a discipleship culture is being developed, but it does take time.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:42):
Do you find that you need different strategies for different parts of Canada? Like when you go to Alberta, Vancouver, there’s some really big churches, some really amazing churches, then you go to like Quebec and it’s under 2% Christian. I mean, it’s really like a mission field. Yeah. Over there are are, are you developing different strategies for different parts of Canada?
Paul Fraser (27:05):
Yeah, I think we need to, certainly you make a a great point about Quebec being francophone less than it’s, I think it’s less than 1% evangelical. So when you think about like our, our Western hemisphere, it’s one of the darkest places like void of evangelical gospel witness it, it’s Quebec and there’s just a different culture and mindset there. So yeah, I think there has to be a different strategy for our francophone family and and province. I think there’s a different strategy that’s needed for suburban, urban, and rural. So it’s not just one cookie cutter, here’s how it works. And all of those mean something different. So an urban center in Saskatchewan, for example, is I think Saskatoon is maybe 400,000 people that would be urban for Saskatchewan. Okay. What’s urban in Toronto is, you know, 11 million people in the GTA area.
(28:16):
So there is a huge difference when we talk urban from district to district, rural, either rural, like in Ontario, they think like a rural town is like 15 or 20,000, but rural in Alberta or Manitoba or Saskatchewan might be 150 people. So there, you’re right, we have to contextualize this for each province. And then as you break it down for each part of the province, like Northwest Territories for example, like up there, like Candace’s got this massive land mass, and, but I think there’s like, ah, don’t quote me on it, maybe 60,000 people in all of Northwest territories. Like it’s just really spread out in time. So you need a different church planting strategy and mission strategy for that too. So the diversity, the different kind of Canada and Maritimers are different than West Coast and I mean, it would be the same in the US wouldn’t it?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:19):
Yeah. And the East coast is very different than Oklahoma where I live. It, it’s very much more of a, a mission field and it takes a whole different thick skin to go and witness all the heathens that live over there that maybe don’t have a, a tradition of, of knowing God. I mean, here in Oklahoma even people that go to church, you know, they, they grew up in church at least. So they know something about God, right?
Paul Fraser (29:45):
There’s a Christian memory. Yeah, there’s a Christian memory, right? Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:48):
Yeah. Another unique opportunity I think you have in Canada is there are so many people coming to Canada from many different parts of the world. Yes. Where Canada, yes, for many years has sent missionaries out all over the world. But now God is really bringing the mission field to you, and especially in Edmonton. I mean, you’ve got people of every different culture and, and language and different foods that you can eat. And so that’s a, a unique opportunity for the church to, to reach out cross culturally and, and cross language groups. And God is, is bringing you and I people that need Jesus
Paul Fraser (30:28):
And, and, and people who know Jesus. That’s the other thing. Like we, some of our best church planters that we’ve had in the last five years moved here in the last five years. Like they’ve, they’ve planted multiple churches or it, it, so you know that Luke 10, two Lord, you know, send workers, send workers into your harvest fields. And we are reaping the, the efforts, the, the missional heart of missionaries going overseas to you name the country. And, and God has used, you know, those decades of faithful ministry to raise up people who have now come back to Canada, excuse me, to help us reach people far from God. So yeah. So not only are there like, I think 300 or 400,000 people are immigrating to Canada from the wor around the world every single year. So that is a huge opportunity. But many of them are coming already faith-filled believers, spirit empowered believers, and come here and go, how do we help you reach Canada?
(31:37):
We’re gonna help you reach those from Afghanistan who are being brought here. We’re gonna help you reach and, and you know, those from Pakistans or India. India and, and, and from Africa and you just Europe and you just go through the list and you just are so thankful that God cares enough about Canada, that he’s raising up people from all over the world to come here. We’re so honored. And I’ll be honest with you, our biggest growing edge of church planting is our cultural language group pastors. And they, they bring this apostolic gifting and heart that is such a blessing to us. If we had more time, I could tell you stories of what God has done through them and how they’re impacting their country still through online ministry. So they’re here in Canada, planting church is seeing fruitful ministry and are still leading at home, seeing great things getting up in the middle of the night to preach at their church Sunday morning. Amazing. Like it’s just the, these, these wonderful leaders, men and women are gifts to us and we thank God for them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:41):
That’s awesome. Well, brother Paul, thank you so much for being a guest on the Evangelism Podcast. Let’s finish up today by praying for the Nation of Canada. You know, if you’re listening, you wanna know more about the, the p ooc and the Multiply network, you can go to www.paocmultiply.com and find out more information. But let, let’s just finish up by, by praying for God to pour out his spirit upon the nation of Canada and from sea to shining sea. I, I see God pouring out the spirit upon all of Canada.
Paul Fraser (33:20):
Come on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:21):
Go ahead. And so
Paul Fraser (33:22):
You want me to pray? Yeah, go for it. Yeah. So, God, God, thank you for this podcast. Thank you for Pastor Daniel who just is willing to find and connect and bring great voices together to hopefully share and inspire, teach and learn about what you are doing today and what you wanna do in the future. And so I thank you for this podcast, bless it and bless him as he continues to travel all over. And just, just preach your word and see so many lives transformed by the moving of your spirit. But we do think of Canada today from as was mentioned, C to C to C. We have three of them that are surrounding Canada. And I pray God for a heart that would turn back to you. There are wells of, of strong Christian foundation. There are there’s a history that God, this was a Christian nation at one point.
(34:22):
And so wherever people are whatever they’re listening, however they’re listening to this right now and whenever they’re listening to it, that there was, there would be an agreement for you to do something special in Canada. God, I believe that if Canada wins, the world is gonna win. A Canada that is sending a Canada that has got kingdom culture is going to help impact the world. And God, I thank you for what you’ve done in the last a hundred years in poc. But I pray our former years, God, that that our future years would be better than our former years. And we had great years, but we’re believing that there’s even better days ahead. So God, we together in agreement, pray for all those in Canada. Over 30 million people who don’t know you as Lord and Savior, we pray God, that even in this next decade, we would see a mighty move of your spirit sweep across this nation. And we thank you for Canada and we thank you that it’s got a great place in the world to be an impact for you. And we ask all this in your name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:32):
Amen. Well, thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Paul Fraser (35:37):
Thanks so much for having me.
Evangelism Podcast Host (35:39):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an ultra call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:40):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:01):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Anthony Greco | The Gospel of Jesus…is Jesus
In today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, I am joined by pastor and evangelist Anthony Greco to discuss his journey to becoming an evangelist. Greco shares his powerful testimony of encountering Jesus and feeling called to share the Gospel with others. He talks about how he was inspired by the story of evangelist T.L. Osborn and decided to travel to India to see if miracles really happened. Greco shares how he witnessed miracles at a Peter Youngren festival and how they deepened his faith in God.
Check out Anthony Greco’s Website: https://www.calgarylifechurch.com/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, pastor Anthony Greco. Thank you so much for being with me on the Evangelism Podcast. It’s
Anthony Greco (00:12):
Just an honor to be here with you and been following you for quite a number of years. Heard some amazing things, and we have a lot of mutual friends, and appreciate what you’re doing for the cause of Christ around the world.
Evangelist Daniel King (00:22):
Well, thank you. You are a pastor here in Calgary, Alberta. Yep. And you are also an evangelist. Yes. And so tell me about how you got started as an evangelist.
Anthony Greco (00:35):
<Laugh>. Well, well, you know, I gave my life to Christ in 1982. Born in a very strong, devout Catholic family, and had an encounter with Jesus. When I was 18, I was in a trailer counting my beer money to see how drunk I could get with my drinking buddies. And his roommate came in and opened up his Bible and shared Christ with me. And five minutes later, I was on my knees and I accepted Jesus. And it was it was a powerful moment where I literally felt, you know, something just lift off my life. The lights came on and, and I was experiencing this, this presence of Jesus. And, you know, I had never experienced anything like that. And I, I remember, I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry, but on the inside I was like, this is real. He’s alive. And I heard a voice on the inside of me say, yeah I’m real. And you’re gonna tell your generation, you know, I’m real. Something to that effect. You know how when God speaks to you, you kind of interpret that it wasn’t like an audible voice, but it was so undeniable. And so that’s how it started. And then someone put some Teal Osborne material in my hand, and it just resonated. I couldn’t put it down. And so
Evangelist Daniel King (01:44):
And so, because of Tia Osbourne’s story of going to India, you decided to go to India and test it out to see if it really worked. Yeah. Yeah. I, and so what happened?
Anthony Greco (01:53):
Okay, so I go to India, and so there’s I, I go to New Delhi and I see these posters everywhere. Come see the miracles of Jesus, the Blind Sea, the deaf here, the lame walk, thousands here, the good news, Jesus heals regardless of Casre religion, Canadian evangelist Peter Yare. And I thought, v I mean, my first thought was, are you allowed to advertise? Like that isn’t that presumption. But anyway, I ended up meeting him. And so he, you know, I, I just said, Hey, I’m from Cranbrook, bc and I said, I’ve heard of you and never met you, but I’d like to help. What can I do? And he, he says, well, you got a good camera there. Why don’t you take pictures of the miracles that they happen? And then he looked at my, my, my, my traveling partner, rod Harrison says, and you, you record them as they happen.
(02:37):
I said, yes. So we left that meeting. We went back to our hotel room, and we burst out laughing, like, like he was so matter of fact, and I mean, I believed in the mir, in Mir the miraculous, you know, but I’d never seen a miracle. I mean, maybe a sore knee or a sore elbow, or, but I’d never seen blind eyes open, you know, or deaf ears. And so I thought, all right. So that first night I show up at stadium and big open field, and there’s, you know, couple thousand people that first night. And Peter begins to preach, presenting Jesus, and you could just feel the atmosphere, get charged with faith and possibility. He gives the alter call and, you know, scores of people run forward and dust is coming up. And I’m like, I, I never seen that. And then he began to command miracles to happen.
(03:27):
And this is what I was waiting for. So I got the camera and I’m ready. And you know, he did it in categories, which right away I was disappointed, Daniel, I thought you don’t do in categories. I think I was, I think I was looking for something spectacular and sensational. You know, I I, and I thought once I saw that, that I would be transformed, that it wouldn’t, I would instantly have faith. I was looking for something, some kind of, of a religious experience that would fit into my frame of reference, or not reference, but I, what I would imagined. It starts with the deaf, commanding deaf spirits to come open, come out and blind eyes to open and cripples. And I’m, I’m watching this and I’m, I’ll never forget this little girl who had never walked and beautiful purple plaid dress on. And her father had wonderful Sikh man, you know, beard and turban, and he’s got tears running down his eyes onto his beard, onto his, his vest that he was wearing a sweater vest and big wet spots. And he’s laughing and crying, and his little girl who had never walked is walking back and forth, and he’s holding his big belly and laughing and crying. And he’s like, look what Jesus has done. Look what Jesus has done. And there was so many miracles that night, Daniel. I didn’t believe it.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:44):
I you saw it with your own eyes and you still didn’t believe
Anthony Greco (04:46):
It. I didn’t believe it. It was like water off a duck’s back. So I go back to the Y M C A where I was staying on in, in New Delhi and Dicing Road, and, and I was, that whole night I tossed and turned, I ended up getting on the balcony, and I’m crying out to God. And I said, God, obviously Peter Youngren was in really fine form, and Jesus, you were awesome as always. But what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I believe what I saw? I always said, if I see it, I’ll believe it. And it really comes down to, you know, and, and this is what I understood that night after wrestling, I realized that so much of my Christianity was in the realm of my, in, in was shaped by my, by my worldview. And in the West, it’s such a, a worldview shaped by logic and reason.
(05:29):
Well, it was back then. Now it’s about feelings. But that’s a whole nother, nother story. But back then, it was so much about you know, if I can taste it, if I can measure it, if I can touch it, then I’ll accept it as a reality. And I understood that night that my worldview was very much a natural worldview over in India and different parts of the world, as you well know, there’s a supernatural worldview. And so when I understood that, you know, you know Christ, you know, you know, the natural mind receives not the things of God. I I I will never be able to figure, download God into my brain. He’d literally blow your mind. But yet our spiritual capacity, Christ lives on the inside of us. And I understood that night that my, the spiritual reality of the new creation, that capacity to believe in no God is far beyond my intellect. And so in the West, we’ve elevated reason and logic above the place of simple childlike faith and spiritual realities. And so that night, I repented of my heartness of heart, asked Jesus to help me and begin to really able to appreciate and not be critical and cynical about the miracles that I saw.
Evangelist Daniel King (06:35):
And since you first connected with Pastor Peter Youngren, you helped to organize some of the big gospel festivals mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that he’s done in, in different parts of the world. And, and even till today, you’re, you’re continuing to, to work with him. So, so tell me about some of the adventures. What, what comes to mind of the, these different countries you’ve gone to and what God has done?
Anthony Greco (06:57):
Well in the, in the early days, so I, I’m working in Cranbrook. I’m a manager of a pizza hut. And I would, I would save up my money and then, you know, when I had money, I’d phone Peter and say, where are you going? You know, and then I’d, I’d go in advance and help set up. And so one day, the, we were watching the news, and so he lived in eastern Canada, in Toronto area, and I lived in Bridge Columbia while the Soviets, you know, they invade Afghanistan and, and millions of Afghan refugees begin to pour over the border into Pakistan. So Peter calls me and he says Anthony, you know, did, are you watching the news? I said, yeah. I said, it’s amazing. And he says, wow, the Afghans have never been reached with the gospel. He goes, that’s one of the last strongholds of darkness. We need to go there. And I said, okay, what do you wanna do? And he says, well, let’s go to pva, right by the Kira Pass and let’s, you know. And he says, can you go in advance and set it up for me? I said, sure,
Evangelist Daniel King (07:44):
Sure, no problem. Why not? You didn’t know what was impossible.
Anthony Greco (07:47):
I didn’t know. So I went and so I meet with all the pastors there. Now, when I was there was the same time that Osama Bin Laden was in pva, working on behalf of the cia, getting support from the, from the CIA to buy stingers and mules and weapons. And so the KGB was in the city setting off bombs in the marketplace, trying to force the government to push the Afghan refugees back into the refugee camps. Cause when they were coming into the city, they were getting finances, they were getting arms. And so it was chaos. So I’m there meeting with all the bishops and priests and pastors from every imaginable spectrum of Christianity, telling them what we want to do. And they’re like, you are crazy. There’s bombs going off. You’re gonna get us all killed. You don’t understand what it is to be a minority and a Muslim majority.
(08:32):
And, and so they, they forced me. They said, now you’re gonna call Pastor Peter Youngren and tell ’em to cancel the meetings. Cuz the previous 36 hours, I think it was six or nine bombs had gone off in the marketplace. So I got all the bishops and priests and pastors in a, in a house, and I’m on the, you know, the telephone. We didn’t have, we didn’t have cell phones or internet or fax machines at that day. I called Peter and I explained the situation and he just yells back and he goes, Anthony, tell them I’m coming. And he hung up the phone. I mean, it was like the air Manuel, the air was sucked out of that room. And they were just so despondent when Peter arrived. And we saw, and then, I mean, the first miracles were among, we had a lot of the Afghans experience. We had two interpreters. So we were speaking in [inaudible] and saw amazing miracles predominantly among the Muslims. And I remember going to the Bible Society and buying every piece of scripture they had. And we gave it to all those Muslim that were demanding Bibles and scriptures. It was, it was fantastic to see.
Evangelist Daniel King (09:32):
Let’s talk about power evangelism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, why is it important for people to see the power of God at work?
Anthony Greco (09:40):
I love the old African proverb, which you’ve probably heard. You’re walking down the road and the road splits in two and you don’t know which way to go. One road has a, a man that’s dead, another one has a alive, which one are you gonna ask for directions? And I think our message is the resurrection of Jesus. And I, I think in North America, we focused on Christ died for our sins. The penalty was paid. But we don’t emphasize enough that the keys of death, hell in the grave are in the belt, in the hands of Jesus. He rose from the grave. He’s the only one. And he’s the same yesterday, today and forever and miracles, you know, they attest, they confirm the message. T.L. Osborn said to me, he says, you know, if you abide in my word, then you are my disciples. Indeed, we need to have the deeds to authenticate our message.
(10:27):
Cuz anyone can talk about what their prophet or guru, you know, had said. And so this, and it’s also when you go to areas where they’re held in darkness, and maybe there’s false religions or demonic powers or al, until you demonstrate that your message has greater power than theirs it’s very difficult for them to put their faith in Christ. So we, we must have miracles, Paul put an emphasis on it. And the only time we see that Paul didn’t have a lot of fruits in his ministries when he went to Mars Hill. And he just, he had a great, you know, apologetic discourse with the leaders. And they said, we’ll hear you again on this matter. But everywhere else, you know, in the book of Acts is like the Holy Spirit moves. And then the church plays catch up day of Pentecost boom. And they’re like, Peter’s like, whoa, what?
(11:15):
Oh, I know what this is. This is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel. 3000 people are saved. Acts chapter three, boom, A lay man gets healed. Don’t look at us as if, you know, it was by our, and so you see this pattern in the book of Acts where miracles change the spiritual, their signs and wonders and signs point to something they make you wonder, who is this Jesus? And so I have found that that is absolutely vital and it can quickly, Jesus said, even to Sodom and well to Corine and some of the cities, you know, and he said, if the miracles that were done in you were done in Sodom and Gamo, they would repentant. So miracles have an ability to bring repentance and change of mind and change of attitude in, in, in, in, in different people groups.
Evangelist Daniel King (11:58):
I’ve heard you say the gospel of Jesus is Jesus. Yeah. What do you mean by that?
Anthony Greco (12:04):
<Laugh>? You know, it’s you know, that’s the good news man, is that, you know every, every religion is propagated, usually by the parents. And then it’s affirmed by, you know, maybe a priest or a monk or a guru or a holy man. And through certain ceremonies that are performed in pagodas or temples or mosques or whatnot, right? Only in Christianity is our, in the gospel. What’s unique is that our message is advanced by the participation of the founder himself. You know, the Lord went with them, you know, you know, confirming the word. And when people encounter Jesus, our message is a person. You, you don’t become an adherent to a doctrine or you join a religious movement or take membership in a denomination. You encounter Jesus and you find in him, he’s everything you need, your savior, your healer, the Baptizer and the Holy Spirit, restore, deliverer, you know, he’s everything. He’s the life. And so that’s what I get excited is that the good news about Jesus is I know that when someone says yes, they can encounter, they’re gonna have a, an encounter with the living resurrected savior.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:12):
So you have the heart of an evangelist and now you’re pastoring. And so what’s that like to go from traveling, doing crusades to, to now being a pastor? And, and, and how have you brought those two different giftings and callings together?
Anthony Greco (13:29):
Yeah, I mean that’s a, I mean, that’s a tension that I’m, I’m still trying to learn how to, how to manage. Cuz you go overseas and it’s, it’s, it’s proclamation. You know, north America was a bit more explanation. Now, do I still expect the miraculous to happen in my church setting? Absolutely. And just, I heard a testimony just a few nights ago of a young gal that had a, a, a cyst, you know, on her ovary, and we prayed and she went to the doctrine and a vanished, we’ve seen blind eyes open. But what I recognize in the church is that, you know, as a, you know, a pastor, you know, when I started, someone said to me, Anthony says, you know, well actually I heard John Maxwell say this at a conference. He said, the weakness of the Charismatic Pentecostal Church is you guys overestimate the event and underestimate the process.
(14:11):
And so the shift that I’ve had to make is to think long term, build relationships. Now I’m planted in this community. I’ve been here for 23 years, and I want to, you know, invite people into that relationship over that process of time to come to Christ. The em, I I really believe that, that a great pastor, according to Jesus in Luke 50 leaves, the 99 safe sheep to go after the one lost sheep. And so I think it’s the number one job of every pastor is not to grow deeper disciples, but is to reach lost people. And so when we thought about our church, and so how I look at it, I think it’s the angle scale that about, on a scale of one to 10, the five is where someone gets born again, eight nines and tens are your solid, mature believers that can feed themselves.
(14:58):
Your zero ones and twos are those that are not even interested in spiritual reality. Everything, how we’ve designed our church is with, I’m thinking of the threes and fours, which are the people that are starting to ask questions. Is there more to life than this? What about Jesus? Is the Bible true? What happens when I die? You know? And five of course is born again, six, they’re and seven are new believers. So I prepare my messages for three to six or four to sevens. I figured that, well, the zero ones and twos, they’re not there. Eights, nines, and tens. Come on, you can feed yourself. I’m not getting fed in church. Really. You know, you’re, you’re like,
Evangelist Daniel King (15:35):
I have, you need to be feeding someone else. You need to
Anthony Greco (15:37):
Be feeding someone else. Now take some responsibility. So that’s how I gear my church. And so I had to make big adjustment on, you know, how I speak using layman’s terms, you know eradicating some of the Christian Church and Christianese so that it’s very welcoming. And, and I’ve seen people come in and some of them, you know, especially some of the more educated, affluent people, they may take a year or two before they actually make a decision for Christ. They’re really watching everything. But I still believe job number one, ultimately I think you is, is is reaching that one lost person.
Evangelist Daniel King (16:13):
We’re here together at the Advance Evangelist Summit, and it’s really wonderful to see all these different evangelists from around Canada come together here in Calgary and have a heart for evangelism. And I think one of the things that God wants to do is to raise up more proclamation of evangelists who will go and preach the gospel with strengths and with demonstration and with power, with full. Like
Anthony Greco (16:38):
You do. Like you
Evangelist Daniel King (16:39):
Do. Yeah. And, and so what advice would you give to, to a young person who, who would like to be a, a proclamation of evangelists? Maybe they don’t even know what that is, but they, they wanna tell thousands of people about Jesus.
Anthony Greco (16:50):
You know, I had a, a great, one of the great mentors in my life is a man named Wayne Myers. And he’s done in Mexico City. He just turned a hundred. And one day I asked him, I said, why don’t we have a lot of miracles in North America like we see overseas? And he says, you know, he says, Saul never killed a giant, and he never had giant killers under his ministry or under his tenure. And he says, David killed a giant. And then, you know some of my, his mighty men, you know, killed off the brothers of Goliath. And he says, you can’t give what you, what you don’t have. So I would say this, all that to say who’s doing it? Who’s who, who’s caring and demonstrating what you want. Go, go draw ear, connect with them, people like yourself, you know, and I know there’s a, you we’re talking about the bootcamp with Daniel nda, my friend Peter Youngren.
(17:38):
When there, there are people that are operating in this, I would say go and serve under those ministries, draw clothes, study hunger and thirst after it. It’s that association submission is such a powerful thing because when you’re submitted, what’s the anointing that’s on the mission comes on you. And I would say, I wouldn’t be here today without Peter’s mentorship, him acknowledging a gift that’s in me, giving me opportunity, correcting me, you know, fine tuning. And so that is an absolute important thing. Pastors are gonna produce pastors and teachers are gonna produce teachers evangelists will produce evangelists. Find you, put yourself in those environments and step out on faith and be bold.
Evangelist Daniel King (18:16):
Let’s talk about what God is doing in Canada. For many years, Canada has sent missionaries around the world. So many Canadian churches have a heart for missions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and now what we see is that people from around the world are coming to Canada. And so right here in Calgary, you have people from many different nations, many different cultures. And, and it’s like God is bringing the mission field to you. And I know in your church you have people from many different backgrounds. What would you say to other pastors in Canada about this mission field that God is bringing here?
Anthony Greco (18:52):
I mean, I was just talking to one of the local pastors here and told me that in the northeast quadrant of my city, Calgary now Calgary’s about, I think it’s 1.3, 1.4 million, but in that quadrant there are 440081% of those people. So over 300,000 are new immigrants. They’re new Canadians, there are Muslims are Hindus, they’re in our backyard. And I, I think what the inside of the church must reflect the outside of the church. You know, we’re multicultural church. We have about 50 different nationalities represented. And we you know, it’s the, the challenge is I don’t want to be culturally specific. I need to be culturally sensitive. And so I look what’s on my platform is my platform. All white guys or white women, does it reflect my leadership, everything. And I think that that is so absolutely key. And so one of the best things is, is you gotta start connecting, you know, with people from other nations, other lands.
(19:51):
And I, I’m, I’m, I’m blessed and fortunate that I’ve been able to be in 40 different nations. And so when I meet my Nigerian friends and I say, oh, did you bring any [inaudible] you know, and I asked them about, oh, you got [inaudible] you know, <inaudible>, you know, I talk about the food. We make that connection. I do that with my, with my Muslim friends, with my Hindu friends. And I, I try to learn a little phrase in each language where I go. And so when I meet someone I can just drop a few words and shoot because I know what it’s like. My wife’s an immigrant. English is not her first language. She’s from Sweden. We met in India, got engaged in Nigeria. My mom and dad were immigrants that come to this land. I grew up in a street where every house was built by an Italian.
(20:32):
I always felt like I didn’t belong. I always felt like I was an outcast. And if you’ve never lived in another country, you don’t understand what that’s like. I lived in Sweden for four years. I know it’s like to feel like you’re an outcast. You don’t understand the culture, the jokes, the language I to learn it. And I think as the ch Canadian church, what an incredible opportunity. But we gotta break out of our old Canadian mindset and realize our nation has changed. We are, we per capita. I read yesterday or this week per capita, Canadians have brought in more new immigrants than any other nation on the planet. I am a hundred percent in favor of it. And the opportunities to win them, to befriend them, open up an English as a second language, put on an international day, you know, invite your Muslim friends in.
(21:23):
I invite, I met an Iranian family at the park and I’m teasing with the guy and I said, teach me some Farsi. He says, [inaudible] gum. Which is really rude way of saying get lost. He shows up in my church months later, I look at him and I said, gum show. Gum show. He laughs cuz he knew I remembered him. And so his son comes to our, to our youth. He’s like, I’m a Muslim, but he’s coming to our youth. It’s a long game we’re playing, you know. But I think that’s, that is an awesome opportunity as Canadians and you know, we, we have a, you know America, you have the melting pot. It’s
Evangelist Daniel King (21:57):
A great opportunity. It is. And the church needs to take advantage of it. Yeah.
Anthony Greco (22:00):
And you know what? Those people are open for signs and wonders and even I read a study that nine out of every 10 Canadians has had some kind of supernatural encounter. What a great conversation starter. You ever have a spiritual experience and all of a sudden, so what do you think of spiritual reality? It could be a ghost or a demon or something, you know, something really. But we are, Canada has changed, our mindset has changed. And I think, yeah, it is an opportunity.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:26):
That’s awesome. Well, pastor Anthony, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I appreciate it.
Anthony Greco (22:31):
Oh, well thank you so much
Evangelist Daniel King (22:32):
Daniel. I know we could talk for a long time. You’ve got so many stories. Thank you so much. Another
Anthony Greco (22:36):
Time. Thank you.
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Tyrella Smith | Gospel Fire for All Nations
Tyrella Smith was one of my students at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Since then she has preached to thousands of people in Tanzania and Zambia. Now she is planning a major stadium event in the middle of Canada. She is an on-fire evangelist who is ready to light a Gospel fire all over the world.
Learn more about Tyrella Smith: https://gospelfireforallnations.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Terrell Smith. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It’s such an honor. Dr. King. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
You were one of my students at, that’s correct. The Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Yeah. Led by Evangelist Daniel Kolinda <laugh>. And you were in the first That’s right. Graduating class of the Evangelism Bootcamp. Yes. And so tell me, what has God done in your life since you were there at the bootcamp?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, first of all, I just wanna say it’s such an honor. Dr. King was one of my teachers and one of my favorite teachers. You gave amazing homework that really helped prepare us for where, where we are all working and where we’re all headed. But since being in the bootcamp, I did three Decapolis Crusades, two in Tanzania, and then the last one was in Zambia. And that was amazing. So I actually got to preach on Delos in the city of Kassam and just all of the tools that we, we needed to identify the storytelling proclamation and then actually moving into signs, wonders and miracles. I mean, we learned that at, at the bootcamp and from this amazing teacher. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:24):
Well, thank you. So Deus is mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from the, the region in the New Testament where there were 10 cities. 10 cities. And so the idea is that Christ for All nations goes into a country mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and does multiple events in multiple cities at the same time. Yeah. And so all of the graduates from the Evangelism Bootcamp, they go in and help Yeah. To organize the events. And, and, and then as they become competent in sharing the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, then they get to actually get up on the platform and, and preach hundred percent. So what was that like? You got to stand mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in, in front of a sea of people, see thousands of people. Did you ever imagine that you would do something like that?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, I had had prophetic dreams from the Lord. And in 2018 I was invited by Christ for All nations to go to a crusade in Port Harcourt, Nigeria. And I remember watching this happen and saying to myself, why am I here? And God spoke to me and he said, I need you to see what you’re going to be doing one day. And so that was the first time I ever saw a crusade lie. And the passage that God put on my heart was when when Jacob put his flocks in front of the water, he put stripe, he put speckled, and then they bore fruit according to what they saw. And so as we’re on de capitalist, as we’re at school, as I was at the crusade, God was teaching me to see what I would be able to produce in him through the power of the Holy Spirit, through good training.
(02:56):
And so, you know, we learned how to do just like He the work of an evangelist. So that’s the prep work. And we do 80% of that before we even get to the microphone. And then here we are standing in front of the microphone and we’re standing in front of a sea of people, and every single one of them is a single person on the field. And it’s like Jesus is standing them, standing there with them as if they’re the only one. And so as you’re preaching, you’re preaching at with a point, you’re preaching with a spear and asking God to use those words to pierce the heart and bring a whole multitude to Christ as if they were the only person on the field. And it was, it was incredible. And just to be there in that moment, catching a net of fish with the power of goalie spirit. Absolutely. Epic. There’s nothing like it. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:51):
So let’s talk about the Evangelism Bootcamp. It’s a pretty intense time Oh yeah. Of, of study and learning about God, and then learning about evangelism Yeah. And really sharpening your gospel message. Yeah. What are some of the things that you learned while you were there at boot camp?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh, my favorite. Now this has actually transformed my ministry in Canada, and even when I do personal evangelism. And that is the powerful art of storytelling. And Jesus said he never spoke to anyone. He did not speak to the crowds unless he used a parable. And so it’s, I actually remember one class that Dr. King talked about, and I hope that he says this everywhere he goes, but storytelling is like throwing out rubies, diamonds, gold nuggets. And then they, when you tell a story, they trip on the truth of the story and they pick it up and they own it for their, for their very self. So storytelling and then applying the gospel of Jesus Christ, to it turns a light on inside of them, and they own the understanding of that their sinners, that they need a savior and that they can be and filled with the Holy Spirit. So I would say that was the biggest, one of my biggest takeaways was storytelling <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:08):
And you were in a full week of my classes. Yes. What are some of the things that you learned from the classes that I taught?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah. So one of the classes that you taught, doc you taught was actually how to go through a passage from top to bottom and actually go back and forth from the passage to application. And so that was really great as well as one of my favorite things was applying the story. And like, Zakia, when you as Zakk came to see Jesus, Jesus came to see Zakia. And today you have come and Jesus has come to meet you. So you are a master at I wanna say expounding through a passage, but also on the application. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:59):
It’s so wonderful that you are a Canadian evangelist. <Laugh>, my wife Jessica is con Canadian. Yes. And both my kids are Canadian. So three quarters of our family are Canadian. And so of course we have king Ministries Canada here. Okay. And so, so many Canadians are, are very generous mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with the gospel and, and have helped to support Amen. The Amen festivals and crusades that we do around the world. And, and so I think God’s raising up a new generation of, of Canadian evangelists mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like Amen. Canada has always sent missionaries out Yes. To many different parts of the world. Yes. but there’s, there’s such a huge need here in Canada for, for more real, genuine evangelists who will proclaim the gospel. You, you’re one, now you’re
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Speaking my language,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:43):
<Laugh>. And so talk to to me about that. What, what do you see God doing here in Canada?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay. I’m so like, ugh, such an honor to have that question asked. Because actually after taking the bootcamp, I head off to Tanzania. It is wild. And it’s so busy. And you just need five minutes to yourself with your daughter. You forget who you are. And so I go into my room and I say, Jesus, I just, I just need to hear something from you. And he speaks to me very clearly, and he says, the Great Canadian harvest. And all of a sudden I saw these combines lined up all in a row, whoosh. And they would clear a field, whoosh. They’d clear another field, just absolute unity. And now I’m from the prairies. So, you know, we don’t often see a lot of combines on a field at, at once and certainly not lined up. But I understood what the Lord was saying, and it was this, that the proclamation evangelist has come and is coming back into Canada, and we’re gonna see that renormalize in this season. It’s time to go back to mass salvation within our borders and to renormalize the Canadian evangelist. And we’re starting to see a surgeon’s resurgence of evangelism. Right. We’re seeing everybody’s hungry to talk about Jesus. Right. But there’s a proclamation of the gospel that needs to go out. Like it goes out from the mountains and for people to gather around the sound of God’s words and the power of the Holy Spirit to land on those words. And we’re seeing it now. We’re seeing it now,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:21):
<Laugh>. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and you are friends with Brad Meyer? Yes. He’s going with me next month to Ethiopia. Amazing. And we’re going to be preaching together there on the fields. Yes. A harvest fields of Ethiopia. And he’s a great evangelist. He’s got a powerful group, a Facebook group encouraging evangelists in That’s right. Canada and around the world. Yes. He really has a, a gift for that. What are some of the things you’ve, you’ve learned from your relationship with, with Brother Brad?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Absolutely. Hands down is compassion. When you see Brad think of him as just an evangelist, but behind the scenes, I’ve watched him weep at the joy of a miracle. Now, many evangelists, they’ll be like a miracle. But when Brad sees a miracle, he’ll often cry and he’ll tell the story because he knows that a miracle changes the life. It’s not just a supernatural power of God, it’s the supernatural power of God applied to a broken life. And so that’s one of the things that we see, I think with Brad, is the personality of, of our God with the power of God. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:28):
Yeah. So I’m gonna put a, a link to where people can join the, the life group Yeah. Of evangelists. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because if, if you’re a Canadian evangelist, you really need to get connected with other Canadian evangelists who have a heart mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for the gospel. So what are some of the things that God’s put on your heart coming up? What mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what are some of the outreaches that you’re gonna do here in the next Yes. Few months and, and years.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes. <laugh>, thank you for asking. So one thing that God has really spoken to my heart, and I really wish I had it here right now, but you can see it online is I said to God, I feel like it’s time for the proclamation of the gospel to go out. And I had been thinking about Sastel Center since 2018. And so last spring I said, God, like if this is you, if you wanna see Sast Health Center filled with people hearing the gospel, I said, you put something in my hands today and I’m a hundred percent in, I’ll do it. But if you don’t, I’m a hundred percent out and I will never think of it again for as long as I live. And within an hour a gentleman came up to me and he put two photos in my hands. One was Billy Graham preaching in Sastel Center, and the other was a picture of the promo.
(10:45):
Nobody knew what I’ve prayed. And I said, okay, God, we’re in. So since then we set the date June 2nd through fourth in Saskatoon, at Sastel Center Stadium. Wow. And we have Charity Gale coming. And one of the other things is we had a farmer show up and he said, Terrell, he says, I’ve got a problem. I said, brother, tell me cuz he was the donor. And so we’re gonna pray for him cuz it’s about partnership. Right. And he says, well, I’ve got all this grain and I gotta move my grain. So now I’m thinking, okay, I need to pray into the marketing. Cause you gotta market your grain. I have to pray into the shipping or whatever, and I’m just starting to calculate how I’m gonna pray for this brother. And he says, no, you don’t understand. He says, I need to give you this grain.
(11:29):
I said, bro, what am I gonna do with grain? I grow grass. I’m not a farmer. Right. And he says, no. He says, you’re gonna sell this grain. And so we sell it, and it was enough for the price of the stadium. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then another person another ministry came and I said, you know, I really feel like God’s telling us to get Charity, Yale to come because she’s not a worship entertainer. She is a worshiper worshiper. Right. And I could not get through to save my life. I couldn’t get through. And so now I’m in Zambia and I’m with this incredible evangelist Rachel Smith, which is funny. We Oh,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:08):
Yeah. Rachel Smith is a great woman of God. She’s
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Amazing, she’s wonderful. And so we’re in Zambia together, we’re having a great time. She says, Terrell, tell me about your event. And I said, well, I feel like I’m supposed to get Charity Gale, but I can’t get through it. And she says, well, listen, I got you. That’s my worship leader’s best friend <laugh>. And then this other ministry steps up and says, I’m gonna pay for the whole bill. Wow. So we still need to raise $200,000, but we’re on the go and we’re just gonna keep moving because Jesus is moving. And people want to gather, not for any big logos or egos, but just to calm into the presence of the Lord and bring somebody else to meet ’em. And that’s just where we’re at. This thing is gonna wrap the ca the, the country is gonna just be wrapped with the gospel
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:57):
And fire. Amen. Well, I believe that this will be the first of many amazing outreaches across the nation of
Speaker 2 (13:04):
God’s doing it Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:05):
He’s doing it. And so if someone’s listening and they want to participate, they want to help with some of the cost of this, this great Canadian outreach what is your website? How can they be a part of what God is doing? Or if they want to come and be a part and, and, and thank you, get their church involved or, or get other evangelists involved, how can they contact
Speaker 2 (13:23):
You? Absolutely. So the event is called Come together.day, come together.day. Okay. You can go on there. You can learn all about the event June 2nd through fourth at Sastel Center Stadium in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. On there you’ll see a donate link. All we need is literally 220 people to give a thousand bucks or 2,200 people to give a hundred bucks so that other people can hear the gospel. And it’s done. It’s done. And we’ll see the kingdom come.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:56):
Amen. And what’s your personal website?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
My personal website is Gospel fire for all nations.org. And you can see come together on there as well. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:06):
Well, let’s finish by praying for the Nation of Canada because I know it’s on your heart, <laugh>. And let’s, let’s pray for, for people to be saved across Canada. Amen. And for God to raise up evangelists across Canada. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
All right. Well, first of all, God, I just want to thank you for Dr. King here in this nation, in these borders. And Lord, I want to thank you for the power of his presence in this nation. And I’m asking God that you release his feet with fire upon our own land, and that you anoint him with great power, Lord, to strengthen this nation when he comes back and as he goes into these other places, strengthen him there as well. And God, we wanna thank you right now in the name of Jesus Christ, that Canada right now is being saved, that you have marked out within our borders, those that you have anointed, that you’ve chosen, that the spirit of God is upon them to preach the gospel to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and to set the captives free. And God, I thank you that your eyes are on our nation and that our nation currently right now is being stirred by the power of the Holy Spirit and that you are saving our nation.
(15:14):
Now, God, I thank you even for some of the shakings that we’ve had that has ripened the grain. Help us to mobilize collaboratively, Lord, to see the kingdom of God come in people’s lives. And that heaven would be full in your mighty name, in Jesus’ name, God. People say, come quickly Lord Jesus. And I say, God, wait. Our nation must be saved. Have mercy and bless us, and fill us with fire and with the presence of God and anoint us God, to see every soul saved or hearing the gospel in this season. In Jesus name. Bless us, God bless us and make us a blessing to you. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:55):
Amen. Amen. Canada shall save. Amen. <laugh>, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast and
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Thank you for everything you do. I really respect your work. God bless you.
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Jon “Razz” Laframboise | What is Your Unique Evangelistic Expression?
Jon Laframboise is passionate about bringing Revival Fire to Canada. He serves as a staff evangelist at a local church in Calgary, Alberta. He loves to activate believers to share their faith. On today’s podcast he asks, “What is your Unique Evangelistic Expression?”
Connect with Jon “Razz” Laframboise on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Jon.r.laframboise
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me. I am in Calgary, Alberta, up in Canada. And John is a good friend. He’s been a friend for many years, and you’re gonna have to help me with pronouncing your last name. You’re such a good friend. I don’t even know how to say your name.
Jon Laframboise (00:21):
It’s okay. [inaudible]
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. So you have a calling from God mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from on your life to be an evangelist. That’s right. And you went to Bible school? The same Bible school that my wife went to or that she was associated with the ministry there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it was called WIBI. Do you remember what the initials stand for?
Jon Laframboise (00:46):
WEBI stands for World Impact Bible Institute.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
And so it was the Bible School of Pastor Peter Youngren. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, who is an evangelist here in Canada. And he was doing crusades in many different parts of the world. And I actually wanted to learn from him as a young evangelist. And so I called up his office and said, can I come and meet with you? And he said, I’d love to meet with you, but not here in Canada. Come with me to Africa. And so I went with him to Congo, Africa. And at that time my wife Jessica was working for Pastor Peter as a crusade director. As a festival director. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so she was organized, the festival and everything. And so that’s where me and my wife met. And so you knew my wife ever since the, the webi days.
Jon Laframboise (01:35):
That’s right. Yeah. So she started working for Peter Youngren at the tail end of my time at the Bible School. And then I went to, in Indonesia as a missionary. And that’s, she actually came through Indonesia with Peter Young’s ministry organizing a festival, healing festival. And she stayed with us for a few days in Indonesia.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so tell me a little bit about the ministry that you did while you were there in Indonesia.
Jon Laframboise (01:56):
So a lot of it started off just going from village to village. You know, doing these well house to house stuff, smaller house meetings and whatever else. But then we wanna do something a little bigger, a little bit more impact. So we started going villages. I bought a portable sound system that we just bring with us, you know, portable, you know, but bring it with us to different villages. And started doing healing festivals or crusades and just started preaching the gospel and praying for people, seeing people getting healed. So they just, and from there it just, the reputation just kind of grew and grew and grew and grew. And even before the tsunami that happened in 2005 or four we actually went to Acce where the province where it happened, you know, and then we got kicked out pretty quickly. They weren’t sold under Muslim Sri law, you know, they drove us out. But it just kept on going in as much as you could, trying to just preach Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
So you are a Canadian evangelist. That’s right. And you are here in Canada and evangelism is different in every different part of the world. Kind of talk to me about how evangelists are received here in Canada.
Jon Laframboise (03:02):
Well, it’s so funny as like a city like Calgary, you know, you know, the reception will change from person to person. We are a massively multicultured city, you know, so I always say, like, joke around saying, if your city is predominantly Caucasian, then you’re not reaching our city. You know, we have a lot of Africans, we have a lot of Middle Eastern people, we have a lot of Southeast Asians, we have a lot of, you know, Canadians, if you put it that way. So there’s, it’s a, it’s a wide reach. So it depends on what sector of the city. For example, in our city of Calgary, but even in Canada as well, much like the us, lots of vary cultures. So the, lately now we’re seeing within the church, the evangelistic ministry being more and more accepted, more realizing like, oh, we are needed for years and past.
(03:45):
It was almost the, you know, the outcast son, if you would like, yeah, we know you’re part of us, but let’s hold you at bay because we don’t quite trust you yet. But now there’s been a lot of reconciliation in churches in terms of the different evangelistic ministries, you know, and more of an acceptance of it. But even so, the ministry of it, outside the four walls of the church it’s when done right, if I could put it that way. It’s widely well received, I think, where if we really focus on that Roman two force, the goodness of God, that leads people to repentance. You know, when we share the real, true, genuine, raw love of Jesus and not the preconceived notion of the world thinks Jesus is, it’s pretty well received.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
I think it’s really neat what God has done here in Canada, cuz there are so many different nations and cultures mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that have moved here. Canada has been very welcoming to people from many different nations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And in some ways the mission field has come to Canada. I mean, Canada has always had a heart for missions that the churches of Canada have sent missionaries out mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to many different parts of the world. And now the mission field has come to Canada. And I, I think it would be very valuable for Canadian churches to, to think about it in those terms mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and think how are we going to reach these people that God has brought to our own backyard? Yep. And so right now you are actually serving as a evangelist at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative> here in Calgary. That’s right. And so you used to be a full-time evangelist traveling around and, and ministering at a variety of different churches and bringing revival and activating people for evangelism. But about a year ago, God gave you the opportunity to start on, on staff at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so what does that look like? Being an evangelist, but fitting into the vision of a local church?
Jon Laframboise (05:31):
At first it was, it was difficult tr to define that and piece it. You know, we’re still defining what that looks like. You know, both my pastor and I, you know, I spent 17 years traveling full-time. He spent several years traveling. So we both had the same attitude, the same mindset of, of of an itinerant ministry. But when it comes down to boiling it down to a local church, you know, he’s a senior leader, the episodic leader, you know, and I’m the evangelist. So it’s we’re still forming what that actually looks like, you know, cause it seems like a new concept really in modern day church. But really what I’m tasked with is creating an evangelistic culture within the, the church. Right. Equipping the believers, you know, for the sake of harvest. You know, and, and really what I’m finding a lot of what I need to do is actually redefine what evangelism looks like to the everyday believer. Cuz a lot of us, we have this, this preconceived notion, whether it’s an early childhood experience or or whatever it is, that you think, oh, when I hear the word outreach or evangelism, it means going door to door and it’s relegated to one particular style, technique or method. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:36):
So people, when you say evangelism, they think, oh, if, if I’m gonna do evangelism, I have to be willing to go and cold call someone, talk to them Yeah. Without ever having seen them before. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (06:47):
It, yeah. So really, so it’s, and I see evangelism, it, it breaks outside of the method. You know, I always tell people that I don’t win souls because I’m an evangelist. I win souls because I love Jesus. You know, and evangelism in its most purest form, I would define it this way, that it’s falling so in love with Jesus, that you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together. You know, when you, when you adopt that as a, the, the foundation of evangelism, it takes away the method, the technique or whatever else. And it just opens up for interpretation of how can I share the love of God with someone, you know, however that looks for you compared to someone else. It, it’s wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:24):
So as an evangelist who’s on staff at a church helping to activate the church in evangelism, do you think every church should hire an evangelist to be their staff evangelist?
Jon Laframboise (07:35):
Oh, I would love that. I’d be absolutely wonderful. You know, like it’s, God gave the five fold for the equipping, perfecting and the maturing of the saints. Well, it’s hard for a pastor to equip someone in evangelism the same way. It’s hard for a teacher, you know, to equip people to, you know, in, in prophecy or whatever else. It works better when you have that person called to that area to lead someone and train them in that particular area. You know, like evangelists don’t make good pastors, but pastors make great pastors and pastors don’t make good evangelists, you know, and vice versa, apostles, you know? Yeah. They could.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:08):
And sometimes I think there’s an antagonism between people who have a gift of pastoring and people who have a, a gift of the evangelists. But what we need to really understand is that both gifts are needed in the body of Christ. Well, a hundred percent. And, and so what do you think the evangelist brings to a church? What, what does a church need that an evangelist brings?
Jon Laframboise (08:29):
Yeah. What I think an evangelist really does, it breaks down the walls of separation between the world and the church. Now, there is a separation between the two, obviously. But it breaks down the division between the two in terms of, it puts a zeal in believers. There’s a contagious impartation, a contagious zeal, and a passion for the lost where it breaks outside of the, I’m comfortable in the four walls of the church and allows you to go out into the world to actually reach the loss and show the love of Jesus. It really brings an impartation and a zeal and a passion, but also an activation for spiritual gifts, I believe where, you know, in Acts one, eight, you know, and Jesus says, you know, go into the world and you know, or you know, you’ll be, see power. You’ve been my witnesses.
(09:11):
Right? Well, the power of God is, is meant to be a witness. It’s not meant to put on really cool conferences or revival meetings, which those things are great, but it’s meant to be a witness, right? We’re meant to go out into the world with the power to witness of the resurrection of Jesus. And I really believe that the ministry evangelists brings a drive behind that. It really brings a, a forceful, but yet also with gentle pushing outside the four walls of the church to go be the light, go be the salt, you know, go be that lamp that the world needs you to be.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:42):
So you’ve taken teams down to an area of Vancouver mm-hmm. <Affirmative> where there is huge need. So talk to me about what that area in Vancouver looks like, and then how you were able to, to evangelize there.
Jon Laframboise (09:56):
Yeah. So this area, Vancouver’s called East Tasting. It’s in the downtown’s called the downtown East side. So it’s actually right next to Roger’s place, which is where the Vancouver connects place only three blocks away. So it’s interesting where it’s multimillion dollar real estate all around it. But yet is there, is this really concentrated in a three or four block radius where it’s open intravenous drug use, it’s homelessness to the extreme. It’s massive drug and alcohol abuse. It’s, it’s it’s really a deprived area where it seems that they concentrated all these people suffering with addiction to kind of, they, they pushed them all into one area. So it’s, it’s really almost like the armpit of Canada in terms of just like, what’s, how the devil’s run rampant there. So every couple months we would take teams down there and just love on people, pray for them, you know, display the love of God, and, and just also just bringing value, trying to add an element of value to the individual.
(10:54):
Like as one particular person, I’ll never forget this and I just asked ’em how they’re doing, you know, and, you know, good, you know, very short answers. And then and I just asked him, I was like, Hey, like, what’s your story? Like, how did you end up here? And then he asked me, look at me there in the eyes and says, do you really want to know? I said, I will go. Let’s go. I’ll buy you coffee. Let’s go for lunch and share your story with me. And he starts crying and he says this, but seven years since I’ve been able to share my story with someone, seven years since anyone wanted to talk to me, like really have a meaningful conversation with me. And that’s heartbreaking, right? So we’re going down there, we’re listening to these people’s stories and just sharing and imparting the love of the father. And with them, we will pray for them, you know, and those who we see some love of breakthrough, we’ll try to get ’em connected with a local mission that’s down there, or a local recovery center. And seen some level of success in that as well. It’s been absolutely wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Earlier when we were talking, you had a, a great idea. It, you it the unique
Jon Laframboise (11:54):
Yeah. Finding your unique evangelistic expression.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:57):
So your unique evangelistic expression, and I think you should trademark that. Yeah. <laugh>, your, your u e e, right? That score. And, and, and so talk to me about that concept. When you go into a church and you’re talking to people about evangelism mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what does that mean? That, that each person would have a unique evangelism expression.
Jon Laframboise (12:16):
So I don’t feel like, for me, the way that God uses me, like I, I am bold, brash. I don’t mind walking up to a complete stranger and striking up a conversation, maybe having a word of knowledge for him or a word of encouragement for him. And and just going right into it, into that. But that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people hear that and they think, oh gosh, not in a million years uhuh, I have to have like five angels appear to me. Jesus himself has to hold me by the hand and leave me out to do that with someone. But sometimes when you, when you know, train people in evangel, when you teach ’em, that’s the cold call if you would, some people, it turns off a lot of people to it. But when you approach it with the definition I talked about earlier, you know, falling so in love with Jesus, you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together that opens a door of opportunity for anything.
(13:05):
For example, let’s say that you’re a really good baker. You know, why not ask the Lord what your neighbor’s favorite pie is, or favorite cookie or whatever it is, and bake ’em that particular pie or cook whatever it is that God leads you into. And just knock on the door, Hey, I’m so-and-so, I’m your neighbor. You know, we either you know them, you don’t know them, doesn’t matter. He’s like, I just felt like God wanted me to bake you this pie. Like, do you like apple pie? It’s like, oh, it’s my favorite pie. Like, how do, like, oh, the God told me to bake you this pie. Or you know, or whatever. Maybe you’re really good at hosting parties. You love hosting parties. Invite your neighbors in, you know, just host a really good party and, and get to know them. Be relational with them.
(13:41):
So it’s finding something in a natural that God could put his supernatural dynamic. You know, you look at Moses at the burning bush. God asks Moses, Hey, what’s in your hand? He says, well, God’s his staff. He’s familiar with his staff, you know, shepherds with it. You know, he used as a walking stick, I’m sure probably use it for self-defense. And maybe he has some cool ninja moves he did with it. Who knows, you know, <laugh>. But with this staff that he’s familiar with, God puts a supernatural dynamic behind it. And with it, he delivers an entire nation. So what is it that you’re comfortable with? What is it you’re familiar with that God gca put a supernatural dynamic behind and then use that as an opportunity to preach the gospel or, or bring deliverance to people or healing or whatever else, you know? So it’s finding out how does God use you to preach the gospel?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:28):
One of the unique challenges here in Canada is this concern that has arisen lately about hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so in the, the Charter of Rights in Canada, freedom of speech mm-hmm. <Affirmative> is guaranteed mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but there is concern that you shouldn’t use freedom of speech to, to speak in a hateful manner against someone. And the the hate is a little bit in the ears of the listener. Like if they feel like you’re, you’re saying something like, for example, if, if, if you’re preaching the gospel and they feel condemned by some aspect of, of what you’re saying, they can label that, that hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So this is a problem across Canada. Yeah. And specifically here in Calgary you have people that are, have been fined mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for what they’ve been saying. What balance do you think evangelists should have in being faithful to the, the truth of the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but also not getting fined by the government, you know, banging the laws of the government.
Jon Laframboise (15:31):
Yeah. So a lot of these fines especially here in Calgary, just passes bylaw. Like there’s a hate speech. So it’s, this particular law is just within the confines of Calgary where someone interprets it, something that’s hateful, then it’s, you know, up to a $500 fine. But even as Canada as well, a lot of it is geared towards the l gt Q to I’m, I’m not sure I’ll deal the way you put the, properly put it now. But that community where it’s, there’s an anti conversion therapy bill that’s passed. So if you counsel, if I were as a pastor, were to counsel someone, if even if they come to me saying, Hey, I’m suffering with same sex attraction and I don’t want it anymore. Legally, I can’t counsel that person because, you know, if someone found out that I can get fined and potentially go to jail.
(16:18):
So I think that minister’s, pastor’s, evangelists, absolutely, you gotta stay true to it. But in terms of the out outside the four walls of the church and presenting the gospel, you know, is it says that the holy spirits, the one is gonna convict the world of righteousness, oh, sorry, convicted world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. You know, not us, you know, in Romans two, force the goodness of God at leads, people to repentance. So it’s the gospel needs as be centered around the goodness of who Jesus is. You know? And the whole message of repent. Well, the word repent loses so much in our culture. Cause we don’t know what it means. Right? It’s what change the way you think, go a different direction. Right? It’s a thought process change. But unfortunately we, we preach it as a turner burn type thing, which is really not what it is.
(17:02):
So it’s stay true to the message of the gospel, which is Jesus loves you. You know, John 3 16 17, God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son, you know, God, everyone believes in him, should not condemned, be condemned by however lasting life. And so stay true to that fact that, you know, while we’re so enemies of God, Jesus died for us and reconciled us to the Father. Right. So it seems like before we address a sin issue the individualistic sin issue, there is the overarching sin issue that needs to be addressed, which needs forgiveness. So once someone gets saved, and then Yeah. Move into something a little bit more detailed, refined. But I think that we could stay true to the message and the truth of the gospel without addressing a particular sin, and just address the fact that you need a savior.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:49):
Right. And we all need a savior. We
Jon Laframboise (17:51):
All do. Every
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:52):
Last sinners, we’ve all done things that are wrong, and we all need the forgiveness that can Absolutely.
Jon Laframboise (17:57):
It doesn’t matter what sin we deal with, we need Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:59):
And so you feel that there’s a way to communicate the gospel that doesn’t cross over into being hate speech. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (18:07):
It’s what’s hateful was saying Jesus loves you and he wants to forgive you of your sins. Right. Of course. If someone asks you, well, what’s considered sin, then I think in that, you have to be able to carefully word it where, because what people say, well, is, is homosexuality a sin? What they’re really asking you is am is they’re asking you but their identity. Right. Because people identify with their lifestyle. It’s, it’s who I am. Right? So that’s how it becomes hate speech because you’re now, you’re def you’re speaking against me as an individual. So it’s trying to communicate in a way, let’s separate you from your lifestyle choices, right. And address you as a human being, not your lifestyle. Right. And until you can definitely preach the gospel with, without compromising the message at all, right. And still see, let’s stay true to what sin is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:54):
Well, I absolutely love that you have stayed true to your calling as an evangelist and working in Canada and in other parts of the world, and just bringing revival and bringing evangelism, getting people fired up about sharing their faith with others. And so just very honored to, to have you as a friend. And if someone is listening and they want to reach out to you, maybe invite you to come minister at their church or bring evangelism, maybe a Canadian pastor is listening, they’d like you to, to come sometime. What’s a, a good email that they can reach you at?
Jon Laframboise (19:30):
The best email to reach me at is info i n o harvest culture.com. That’s the best email for me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:38):
Awesome. Well, thank you John so much for being on. Thank the advantage of for Having Me
Jon Laframboise (19:41):
Podcast. Bless you.
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John Albiston | Coaching Churches for Growth
John Albiston is a church growth expert who works with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. He grew a church from 300 to 1,500 people in a span of five years. The last year he was there he saw seven hundred salvations. Then he was asked to help the one hundred and twenty churches in his district to grow. Today he shares some simple secrets that are guaranteed to lead to church growth.
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Connect with John Albiston: https://albiston.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest with me, John Albertson. And you are with the Pentecostal Assemblies here in Canada, and you are a church coach. And so I love coaching, I especially love coaching evangelists, but you’re going into churches, helping churches to grow, helping them to think strategically about how to reach their community. So how did you get started doing that?
John Albiston (00:32):
Well, my story was my last church our church grew from 300 to 1500 people in the span of five years. And the last we were there, we saw over 700 salvations. That’s when I got a phone call from the Pentecostal Assemblies just saying, John, would you like to show other churches how to do that? And I was like, yes, I would love to show other churches how to do that. And that’s when we got started. I got started doing that in 2017. And when we started here in our district, we’ve got about 120 churches. We ran the numbers and we found that only 18% of our churches were growing. 82% of our churches were either plateaued or in decline. We’re happy to say that within a couple of years, by 2019, we had doubled the number of growing churches and doubled the number of annual reported salvations.
(01:26):
So we, our churches weren’t growing because we were trying to convince Baptists to come to our church instead. But no, we were genuinely reaching unchurched people in our community. Now Covid hit that threw our numbers right out the window. But now that we’re coming out of C O V and started re getting our, our bearings, it’s looking like we’ve got pretty close to 50% of our churches growing. And by the end of the year, we think we might be able to get 60% of our churches are growing, accomplishing real great commission salvation growth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so what are some of the things that you are helping churches with when you are encouraging them to reach out to their community?
John Albiston (02:05):
Well, one of the first things is just to understand their own purpose as a church and what they need to do in order to grow by reaching lost people. Because if you want your church to grow, what you need to do is you need to reach people in your community, bring them in, introduce them to Jesus, and then have them stay and learn how to follow him. Now, when I have conversations with pastors, like, are you doing that? Are you reaching people, introducing them to Jesus and then teaching them to follow him? The answer is, oddly enough, no. You know, we’ve been trained in Bible school and seminary, how to run services. You know, I was trained on how to be an ec eal preacher. I wasn’t taught how to speak to non-Christians. I wasn’t taught how to disciple non-Christians. You know, when when someone accepts Jesus their savior, what’s the first five things I’m supposed to teach ’em? I don’t know that that was never a class. So organizing our Church of War, actually accomplishing our mission is just something that most of us as pastors were never trained to do. And before we were too eager to blame our professors. Nobody trained those guys how to do that either. So if we want our churches to grow, that’s what we need to focus on doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:22):
I think one of the challenges is that everyone who pastors a church has been around churches for a very long time, and so they don’t look through the eyes of a visitor or a first time guest or someone who is seeking spiritual enlightenment, who just wanders into the church. What would you tell a church to help them to make that person feel welcome?
John Albiston (03:52):
Well, I’d tell ’em a few things. One, just the importance of it. As a general rule of thumb, on any given Sunday, 96% of the people in the room are your own people. And it’s so easy and so comfortable just to focus on that. 96%, only 4% of the people in the room are first time visitors. So if I focus on my 96%, I, I know they’re vocabulary, we’re comfortable through vocabulary. When I use churchy vocabulary words, they like it. We all know what
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:23):
The rows of Sharon
John Albiston (04:24):
Is. Oh, that’s right. Like it, it just like home. Feels like home. The problem is 100% of your growth comes from the 4% and just put yourself in in, in their shoes for a second. I mean, it’s a golden rule. Like Jesus teaches us to do this. Say you’re, you know, Larry from across the street you come home from a business trip and your wife is gone. You thought you had a good marriage, but now the house is empty and you realize everything that I’ve believed about the success of my life is falling apart. And all of a sudden God is speaking to them. And if they’re like, you know what? I’m gonna try something crazy. Maybe I can find hope at church. And so I go in my desperation and need for God, I go to the church across the street and what do I hear is a sermon about Calvinism versus Arminianism?
(05:13):
And then I realize, yeah, you know what? It was a really stupid idea to come here. Okay? We we’re not talking to the people who need the gospel the most. We’re not sharing the gospel. Most churches don’t preach the gospel. Yeah, maybe if you’ve been there for a couple years, you’ll pick it up a bit. But we’re just not focusing on our job, on how we reach our community. We’re just focusing on our frozen chosen. And that’s not good for our people either, because quite frankly, they’re gonna be living kind of a weak and limp Christian life. If you’re living the Christian life where I go to a church where people are getting saved all the time, where I can invite my non-Christian friends in and I know they’re gonna have a fantastic time in their encounter. God, that’s very exciting for me. And even if I’m an introvert, it’s easy for me to invite <laugh> somebody, somebody to something I know they’re gonna love. So if I know that you’re a fanatical football fan and I’ve got two tickets to the game, it’s easy for me to invite you cuz I know you’re gonna love it. And when our churches are places where I know when you come, you’re gonna feel welcome. You’re gonna understand what’s gonna go on, and you’re gonna meet Jesus. It’s easy and exciting for me to invite you to that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:35):
And even to create that culture of people inviting their friends, I, I’m amazed as I travel the churches all over North America, every weekend I, I minister in a different place and I walk into a bunch of churches and there’s no signs showing where the children’s ministry is. There’s no sign saying whether the coffee is free or you’re supposed to throw a dollar in the, the cup there, there’s no sign showing where the bathrooms are. Like you can wander around the church for a long time just trying to find the bathroom. And I’m like, this isn’t friendly for visitors. Like, you’re not even thinking about visitors coming to the church.
John Albiston (07:17):
Oh, absolutely. That, that is a major problem. And it’s, again, we’re focusing on the 96%, we’re ignoring the four. And it, it’s such a tragedy of opportunity. So here’s the math of it. 4% of the people in your church on any given Sunday are first time visitors. Next Sunday it’s a different 4%, and next Sunday it’s a different 4% different 4%. And when you add that up over 52 weeks, you get a 200%. So you take the average attendance of your church, say it’s a hundred, over the next 12 months, you’re gonna have 201st time visitors. What would happen to your church if you kept half of them? You know? But we’re losing them because we’re ignoring them. We’re not putting ourself in their shoes. Yeah. That includes signage
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:06):
Or even know where to park. You come into the parking lot and where’s a visitor supposed to park? Or Absolut? Is there even a parking place for them?
John Albiston (08:13):
Absolutely. And when someone comes in, does anybody talk to me? Does anybody engage? Now a lot of our churches will have greeters, you know, who’ll say, hi, welcome. But I’ve, my local Walmart has greeters who say, hi, welcome. When I walk in, and I’ve been going to Walmart for I think 40 years, and in all those years, you know how many Walmart employees have gotten to know my name? Like Zero. Do you know how many friends I’ve ever made at Walmart? Zero. being friendly, whoopie, doof, we can find friendly anywhere. What we can’t find anywhere is friends. And so we need to actually love and care for those people that God are sending us because they’re already coming to our church. They’re coming in droves, people that God is calling them. And it’s hard for them to get here. Like we need to understand their journey.
(09:07):
I’ve, I’ve heard so many stories of people who would tell me that it took them three or four attempts to come to our church because they drive in, they were parked in the parking stall, white knuckling the steering wheel for 20 minutes before driving away in tears because they were too scared to come in the door. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. We don’t know the journey that they’re going through, and when they come in and we just ignore them and we’re blind to them and we don’t care for them. If you come into my church and nobody cares for you, you don’t feel loved. I can be on the stage standing on my head, juggling fire, talking about the love of God, and you will
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:48):
Not believe I’ve tried that before. I’ve tried to juggle fire
John Albiston (09:51):
<Laugh>. You won’t believe me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:53):
Yeah.
John Albiston (09:53):
But if you come in here and you feel welcome and you feel loved and you feel part of the family and like, you’re not getting just like a fake Walmart greeting that No, I feel included. I’ve never been in a place like this. I’ve never met people like, here, what is going on here? And then I talk about the love of God. You are gonna believe me because you’ve already experienced it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:16):
So walk me through the process as you’re coaching a church, what recommendations do you give them for the, for the ushers, for the song service, for the offering time, for the message, for the altar call, for the follow up process. Kinda walk me through what an ideal process would look like for a visitor.
John Albiston (10:40):
So if a church is at that stage that like, hey, they actually wanna reach people, because sometimes I have to deal with stuff like, we don’t care about a lost people <laugh>, so we have to,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
So that’s a theological and a heart issue. That’s
John Albiston (10:50):
Right. So sometimes, you know, when I’m going into coaching church, that’s what we need to do the work. But they’re ought that if they’re at this stage where no, no, we wanna reach our community, what do we do? The fundamental principle is the golden rule. Put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. When I walk in here, do I know what to do when the service starts? Are you speaking in plain English? So just talk about like, choosing lyrics for your songs. There’s a, a song that’s popular in a number of churches called Reckless Love. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or not, but if you look at the lyrics of that song, 95% of that song’s gonna make sense to anybody in your community. Like, there’s one line about he leaves the 99, okay? They’re not gonna get the reference, but most of that song makes perfect sense. They’re gonna understand what we’re talking about. There’s another song that are, that is popular. Our God is the lion. The lion of Judah. Our God is the lamb. The lamb. Who is slain? Who’s Judah? Well, he’s one of the 12 patriarchs. Why are we singing about him? What’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Patriarch? Well, because
John Albiston (11:50):
The messianic lion goes through the lion of Judah. Why are we talking about lions? Oh, that’s symbolic. It refers to the Davidic kingdom. Who’s kingdom, okay. You see? So David was one of the descendants of Judah. Messianic line not only goes through Judah, but also goes through through David. Now Lamb saying you need not understand the sacrificial system and the Old Testament, how that pre prefigures Christ and Leviticus and the Lan of course, and Nasco logical figure, we’ve seen a book of revelation. Okay? That’s what you need to know for the song to make any sense. Okay? Did we have to make the climb that steep like half the time when people come in to our churches and don’t encounter Christ? It’s not that they rejected what we were saying, they just didn’t even understand what we were saying. It was just confusing. Gobbly good.
(12:28):
Our sermons are no better. And for our churches who actually do attempt to preach the gospel, we’re preaching the gospel in Christianese gobbly book, and they just don’t understand the words that are coming out of our mouth. So the first thing you want your church to have an impact on, people preach and sing with clarity, not to water things down. And we’re not trying to avoid offending people. I mean, we’re not gonna poke people in the eye, but okay, that’s not what we’re focusing on, is inoffensive sermons. We’re focusing on clear sermons that anybody coming in is gonna understand what we’re saying. So when it comes to the gospel, for example, I understand theologically that repentance and faith kind of a big deal when it comes to accepting Christ. But I also know that the people I’m trying to reach have never heard those words and don’t know what they mean.
(13:19):
Now, I know from studying Hebrew that the word repent, that the Hebrew route is make a u-turn. It’s how you give directions. Like go down fourth Street in repent <laugh>. So I will be on the stage walking one direction saying, I’ve been going down my own road. I’ve been the master of my fate captain of my destiny living my life the way I want to. Well, that ends here. Jesus talking about making a U-turn and following him, even when it’s scary, even when I don’t understand, I’m putting my whole life in his hands. Everything that I am, my hopes, my dreams, my sorrows, my shame, you know, my anger, my hurts. I’m putting everything I am in his hands and trusting him to make me to someone new as I follow him in a new life, in a new direction. So I explained both repentance and faith without necessarily using those words.
(14:13):
Okay? That’s a skillset we have to develop because I was raised in a church. Christianese is my mother tongue. I speak English as a second language <laugh>. So are we preaching with clarity? Are we singing with clarity? When you preach, you know, when you, for your own people, when you preach clearly in plain English, guess what your people learn in plain English. Because if I preach in gobbly G your congregation learns it in gobbly G. And then when they go out to the workforce, when they go out to the baseball game, when they go out to anything else, the only thing they know is gobbly go. Why would we be surprised that our people in our congregation are so ineffective at reaching their friends? But if we preach in plain English and explain the gospel in plain English, we’re equipping our people in plain English to reach their friends and neighbors in plain English.
(15:08):
So you wanna make the biggest difference in your congregation in being able to reach newcomers and actually seeing your own people be more effective at evangelism and discipleship. Learn how to speak in plain, ordinary English. It’s a discipline. It’s hard. People don’t know what discernment means. You, if you have to use the word, take 10 seconds, explain it to explain it. Don’t make a casual reference. Hey, just like Joseph, you know, okay, who’s Joseph? Okay, take 10 seconds to explain, give people on-ramps to what you’re talking about. And that is probably gonna make the biggest difference.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:47):
What about the follow up process for that 4%? How do we close the back door so they don’t just come in and leave, but we can retain some of the 4% that are visiting every Sunday? Well, I think
John Albiston (15:59):
The key is gonna be developing relationships of friendship. So sometimes you know, I talk about, you know, we, in order to have someone follow Jesus, they need to make f make friends with us. Because if you read your gospels, Jesus discipled the disciples within the context of relationship. So when someone say they, they raised that hand When I made that gospel call, I’ve already trained my ushers, they’re already at the back. Everybody else’s head is bowed, eyes are close, not my ushers <laugh>. They’re already at the back and they see who raised their hands, and they’ve already been trained to come up and approach them after the service. Introduce ’em. Hey, my name’s Tom, da da da, da, how you doing? Da da da da da. You know, how long have you been coming here? Da Hey, I would really like to introduce you to my pastor.
(16:47):
Is that okay now? Because I saw their hands, like when they’re my ushers, bring somebody to me. I know this is a new believer. Well then I can have a conversation with them. I can give them a new believer’s Bible and say, Hey, you know what? We’ve got this small group program called Alpha, it’s a free meal. Why don’t you come out? It’s a fantastic way to, you know, to get started. But we want to get them in relationship as fast as possible. So follow up is crucial, crucial, crucial. And we want to connect with them as soon as we, we possibly can. We don’t wanna let that get cold. And again, it comes down to the, the whole love of God experience. If they don’t f experience the love of God from us, they’re not gonna believe in the love of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:35):
Let’s talk about the, the Canadian context here. Most of the churches that you’re, you’re working with here are in Canada. Is there anything unique to Canada that might be different than say the United States or other? Or are these principles, do they work everywhere?
John Albiston (17:52):
So I’ve used these principles in, in other countries and like, like Canada, the United States are fairly culturally adjacent. So if you’re an American coming to Canada, like the least foreign country you could possibly visit is this one. And vice versa. But I’ve seen this work very effectively in Thailand, which is a completely different culture. And that’s because we’re talking about some basic human principles. People need to be known. People need to experience love, people need to experience acceptance. And none of us feel that way when we’re being ignored. So we wanna be certainly culturally sensitive. So if you’re going to Thailand and you’ve got a habit of touching people’s heads, don’t do that in Thailand. That’s considered very rude. Mind you, seriously, dude, that’s weird here too. <Laugh>, you know, but you know, sometimes our own, we have got
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:49):
Little, let’s bring all the visitors up and I’m gonna pray for you right now.
John Albiston (18:53):
<Laugh>, sometimes in our church we develop weird microcultures. Like I remember my, my last church if you were sick, the only way to heal you was to bring you out to the front of the service in front of everybody. We would hit you in the head to try to make you fall over. And that’s how healing happens. Is there anything in the Bible says we have to do it that way? No. And we kind of realized, you know what? That’s actually kind of weird. And people coming in here are kind of terrified by what we’re doing. Maybe we should find like non terrifying ways of doing things. So there’s ways where we can think about, well, things happen in context. So you look at the Apostle Paul apostle Paul said, I am all things to all people. So by all possible means, some might be saved to the Greeks, unlike a Greek to the Jews unlike a Jew.
(19:42):
Well, that wasn’t just words for Paul. If you look at the book of Acts on how he behaves, when Paul’s in a Jewish setting, man, he turns into super Jew, Hey, I’m a Pharisee and you know, I studied on a gamma meal and he’s quoting the Old Testament left, right and center. Like, I mean, he, he puts it on really thick with the Jewish stuff. But when he is talking to a Gentile lobby audience, he doesn’t talk about any of that. In fact at Mars Hill, he starts quoting their poets and using their cultural references to bring them to Jesus. So he adjusts the way he talks depending on who he’s talking to. And I mean, we understand this when it comes to age group. You know, I’m not gonna talk about substitutionary atonement when I’m talking to preschoolers. Okay? So we, we’ve got some kind of understanding of that. Well, we need to know who we’re talking to and then adjust our vocabulary and how we explain and how we act compared to who we’re talking to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:37):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone has some questions about how their church can be more effective at reaching their community, what’s a good way to get in touch with you? What, what’s, what’s your email?
John Albiston (20:50):
They can reach me@justjohnalbertin.com. My last name is A L B I S T O n.com. And there’s some free resources on there, but yeah, anybody can get in touch with me and I am more than happy to help.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much and I love what you’re doing. I, I love coaching evangelists and people who are excited about reaching the lost, and I think so many churches need to have that heart for their community and, and, and for the lost, and, and not just talk about it, but take tangible steps to make it happen.
John Albiston (21:28):
Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:28):
And so, just so much love what you do and so valuable.
John Albiston (21:32):
Well, thanks for having me on here. Thank you.
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Bill Hogg | Advance Evangelists Summit Canada
Bill Hogg is an evangelism catalyst. His goal is to raise up a new generation of evangelists across Canada fuelled with a passion to boldly declare the Gospel. This is done through Advance Groups of evangelists that meet together every month. To find out more on how to start your own evangelism Advance Group, keep listening.
Learn More About Message Canada: https://messagecanada.org/
Start an Advance Group of Evangelists: https://canada.advancegroups.org
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, bill Hogg. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bill Hogg (00:11):
Delight to, to join you. Thanks for the invitation today, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
So we are together at the Advance Evangelist Summit in Calgary, Alberta in Canada, and evangelists from all over the nation of Canada. And even a few other parts of the world have come together to talk about evangelism. And you have helped to organize all this. Kind of tell me the story of, of this summit and, and why God put this on your heart to bring evangelists together.
Bill Hogg (00:43):
So there’s a bit of a backstory if you want that, where God stirred my heart about the fact that in Canada, the evangelist is missing in action. There’s a scarcity of the evangelist. I mean, you might be able to quote this Rice Brooks for his doctoral dissertation scan the United States, what, 10, 15 years ago and thought maybe evangelical, charismatic Bible teaching churches, maybe one in a hundred would be graced with the gift and anointing of the evangelist. So that was part of my covid reading. You know, what do you do when you’re encapsulated in a lockdown? You read stuff and I thought Canada, it’s probably anecdotally it’s maybe one in 200. So I, I was involved in assessing coaching, training and supporting church planters and was disturbed that many church planters could not articulate the gospel with clarity, which I think is basic foundation for any kind of ministry.
(01:40):
And a lot of church planting is not evangelistic. So we used to quote Peter Wagner, who said, the most effective evangelistic methodology under heaven is the planting of new churches. But in response to that, I would quote the music composer, not the theologian called Porter, who would say, it ain’t necessarily so. So that used to disturb me. And I would meet with network leaders and church planting catalysts or denomin national officers and say, who are the evangelists in your tribe? And they would say, that’s a really good question. If I was feeling cheeky, I would say I only ask good questions. But generally, crickets would chirp in the background because they couldn’t identify the evangelists. So that used to disturb me a great deal. And, and a couple of things happened. One is I went to message trust in the UK and spoke at their first ever advanced summit where they had identified 250 evangelists in the uk, invited 170 or 170, came to the summit.
(02:48):
They probably invited all 250. It was 170 in the room. I was the closing speaker. And of course, evangelists never watched the clock, Daniel. So 170 had hemorrhage down to maybe a hundred when I was in the room. And we did a great time in ministry. And as I stepped away from that encounter, I was there with my wife, Morag. I thought, Lord, if you can identify and raise up evangelists in Jo Post-Christian England, why not here in Canada? At the same time, I’m involved in a, an entity called Church, plant Plant in Canada. We bring leaders and church planting catalyzers from across the country. And when the old church planting network, it was part of, I was the only member of our team there. So we had a facilitator. You’ve been in these rooms, they break out, they give you giant post-it notes, kind of what’s your contribution to our conversation?
(03:40):
So I’m a team member of one, a committee of one. So it’s command and control time. So I just drew the Edward Munch screen picture, ah, and then I put prison bars over it, and then I drew a gigantic foot. So I’m the only person that did any kind of cartoon, put it on the wall. People are talking about their aspirations of church planting. And I said, there’s a, I was asked to explain myself. I said, the food reminds us how beautiful on the mountains are the feet of them who bring good news. But in Canada and appointed to in Canada, we’ve imprisoned, incarcerated, sidelined the evangelist. And after we’d been there in the mountains for three days, I was driving back in the rental car, rental car filled with the presence of God. And I had one of those holy moments where it’s just almost like a stillness descends on you.
(04:34):
And I said, Jesus, I think part of the story, maybe the primary reason, the big reason you brought me to Canada is to be part of reclaiming the advance list for the advancement of the gospel. So there’s been that partial as part of the story. I could go into more of the backstory around that, but I was intrigued that what, under Andy Hawthorne’s catalytic leadership, he would be a leading gospel champion in the uk, an apostolic evangelist. And now under Ben Jack’s leadership evangelists were popping up in the uk. And I’m like, why not Canada? So our first play was when I joined message as their national director. The first event we hosted was an advance summit in November, 2019. And we gathered about 85 leaders from across the country, two ends of the spectrum, young adults who were part of a school of evangelism, seasoned statesmen, evangelists like tv, Thomas pastors with a heart for evangelism, street evangelists, proclamation, evangelists, evangelist.
(05:41):
And it was a powerful time of prophetic activation and worship and prayer in networking. We thought, Hey Lord, let’s do that again. And of course, we’ve had to navigate the dynamics of covid where we couldn’t gather. And so this is our first gathering, and part of the gathering is just to identify evangelists. We want to create an association of Canadian evangelists. We want to populate churches and ministries with advanced groups. We want to be a broker of getting the evangelist embedded in the life of the local church as a gospel agitator, as a servant, as an equipper. And see what God would do. So big ideas, Lord, give us grace to find the flames of evangelism in Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:22):
Well, as an evangelist, I’m very thankful for your heart to raise up evangelists. I think it’s so important. And I, I was called as an evangelist at a very young age and always had the heart for evangelism. And you start to, to try to figure out what that means. And so I looked at other great evangelists, looked at the pictures of TL Osborne and Billy Graham and Reinhardt Bonky and, and just dream about doing that someday. And then I did my doctorate ministry at Oral Roberts University and, and read all of Rice Brooks materials Okay. For my, my dissertation, which was on mass evangelism. And you know, so you grow in your understanding of being an evangelist and, and it’s so valuable what you’re doing to help people to understand what it means to be an evangelist. And so let’s talk about the need for evangelism here in Canada. You were sharing some statistics last night. Tell me, tell me about the need for evangelism here in Canada.
Bill Hogg (07:24):
Well, we’re, we’re really a gospel parch country. Daniel those joining us on the Evangelism Podcast might not realize the spiritual demography or landscape in Canada. So there’s Quebec, which is the most unreached piece of real estate in all of the America’s, north America’s, central America, south America. And of course there are Christians beyond evangelicalism, but Quebec has about 0.5% of its population who would self-identify as an evangelical using the classic, albeit reductionist, bebbington quadrilateral. Now that’s less self-identified evangelicals than in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, which is 0.6%. There’s another trend, we talk a lot about the nuns and Dunns, and of course some other social issues have been front and center, and that’s kind of been on the back burner of conversation. But there’s a story of accelerated de Christianization. So in 1961, I think 1% of Canada would identify as having no religious affiliation whatsoever.
(08:35):
Now in 2023, it’s approaching 40%. The Evangelical fellowship of Canada created a composite category of aas sns. Now who are they? They’re atheists, agnostics, spiritual, but not religious and nuns. Those nuns have got no religious affiliation. And that composite category is 50% of Canada. And in the same piece of research, which is about two years old, they say zero as the new normal. Now what are they talking about? Church engagement? Church participation. So the normal Canadian is not remotely interested in engaging with the faith community, no matter how slick the programs are or how vibrant or spiritually hot the environment is. And then the other story which we’ve unearthed is that church planting’s dirty little secret is transfer growth. So generally speaking, church plants that grow are simply recycling Christians from other churches. So where are we seeing missional engagement? Where are we seeing fruitful evangelism?
(09:48):
And frankly, a church like say Auntie Greco’s Church or Dave Coop’s church, or First Alliances Church Calgary, where they’re seeing baptisms on profession of faith is rare, now takes catalytic leadership. So a friend of mine who I didn’t mention there, passes a church in Cologna. And during the pandemic when things were on hold, he said, we are about mission, we’re not about maintenance. So it requires that kind to leadership. So even during the pandemic one year, an Anthony at Calgary Life Church saw a hundred professions of faith and baptized. 62 people during the pandemic, two of them had baptized in secret because there were Muslim converts who showed up at the church and said, is this a church that interprets dreams? And an Anthony said to me, bill, I’ve never interpreted a dream in my life, but I said, sure, we are. What have you got?
(10:40):
And they had a dream where someone in Dalin White appeared to them, and it’s like, duh, it’s Jesus. So he shared Jesus with them. Let me give you the interpretation. You need Jesus, that, that that’s exactly right. So, I mean, there’s beautiful anomalies. I would say they’re outliers, but generally what we’re seeing is a decline. So other stats would be 80 to 85% of Canadian churches have plateaued or declined. And that would include evangelical Bible, believing churches, spirit-filled churches, not simply the mainline churches who we might say, well, of course they’ve lost the gospel, but you can’t say that wholesale. So it’s about 85% of the churches now that’s using the unhelpful metrics of church attendance. Church participation, which is a lousy metric. It’s not a kingdom metric. But what it does tell us, for most churches, their best days are in yester year. And they need to experience profound gospel recalibration, deep spiritual renewal, and actually embrace a journey of change. And of course, Robert Quinn who wrote about deep Change said most organizations and most people would rather choose slow death than deep change. And he said, you’ve got a choice the hell of deep change or the hell of slow death. And so that requires courageous leadership, wise leadership, probably apostolic leadership, to catalyze around the centrality of the gospel and, and create a dream for a new day of missional fruitfulness.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:16):
And that’s why it’s so important to raise up evangelists and to elevate the gift of the evangelist in the church. We desperately need more people who have a heart to, to go out and to to reach the loss. And that’s one of the things you’re, you’re attempting to do is, is to raise up evangelists. And one of the tools that you’re using to do that is the advanced course. And, and so talk to me about how evangelists can get together and to, to commit to meet together on a regular basis and use this curriculum, which the messenger trust makes available free of charge to people all over the world. And how, how can they use this to, to help disciple and mentor evangelists?
Bill Hogg (13:01):
Great, great question. So I think if we’re, if we’re going to learn new skills or, or, or call out latent evangelistic capacity, the best way is to learn in a community and not simply learn cerebral head information. I mean, you’ve, you’ve studied at postgraduate level, and that’s awesome because James Denny said, all our evangelists should be theologians, and all our theologians should be evangelists, but I would include myself in this. Most of us, what we know is not matched by our obedience or the level of our Christ-likeness or the level of our missional engagement. And this creates a learning community where you could be a gifted leader and facilitate a group, but it doesn’t even actually require strong leadership because we’ve created a curriculum. So initially the advanced group was kinda Lucy goosey Andy Hawthorne mentoring 12 others. And for about 18 months, I don’t think it even had a name.
(14:02):
You know, maybe it would be Andy’s disciples or something. And then at one point he said, go down and do likewise. And the 12, we’ve heard this before, the 12 went out to multiply, but what they created, Ben Jack created the advanced group guide. And that is the content which you wrestle with do homework on pray into apply. And, and that’s the centerpiece of the group that meets around a, if you like, a three-legged stool around how clear and pure is your gospel. Because we can’t assume gospel centrality, the Apostle Paul says, we’re all gospel amnesia acts. Let me remind you of that, which is our first importance. So we’re kinda pressing in, how clear is my gospel? Has the gospel really taken root in my heart in life to have a gospel-centered operating system? I’m a Twitter painted with the beauty and truth and infused with the power of the gospel, but then does my life actually commend the gospel?
(15:05):
So there’s questions about our Christ-likeness, our holiness, our purity or transparency or honesty. And so there’s also a third stool, which is around stewardship of gospel opportunity. And this is with the company of a group, could be six, I think it, it’s not as good. If you drop below that small group dynamics or a group of 12, you get beyond that, then maybe the big bold extrovert dominates the conversation and the the quieter person really doesn’t get an opportunity to engage. And there’s whole life accountability questions, not simply the classic financial and sexual purity and integrity questions around the stewardship of energy and, and family life and, and work life and questions like, are you sharpening the saw, which sounds like a Stephen Covey kind of question. But around those three dynamics, the groups meet regularly, Daniel, with the goal of mutual evangelistic sharpening, basically elevated evangelism, intentionality, and intensity would be outcome or more evangelism Mojo. And Ben Jack has now created a three year mentoring guide. So there’s plenty of content. So if you’re a gifted leader, it’s just a grab bag of resources to facilitate a group that doesn’t even have to do evangelism together, but can support and reinforce each other on a journey of going deeper with Jesus and be more intentional about making him known. And Tom Phillips, who’s I think the longest serving member of the Billy Graham Teamy, served under Billy and serves under Franklin said it’s the most gospel centered evangelistic training resource he’s found. And it’s free.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:52):
Yeah. I’ve gone through all of the advanced material and it’s really tremendous. And, and so if there’s an evangelist who’s listening who want to start an advanced group, what’s the website where they can download the advanced guide?
Bill Hogg (17:07):
That’s a good question.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:08):
What’s, what’s the Canadian website? It’s a advanced or no, the messenger trust ca
Bill Hogg (17:14):
If, if you go to, this is the convoluted way cuz you put me on the spot and I’m sorry. Said. Yeah, no, it’s good. I was saying, Hey, I’m usually good at thinking on my feet. But if you go to message canada.org, you’ll see more, more of what we do. And then if you click on what we do, you’ll go down to the advance page, and there you can download PDF of the three year guide or the advanced group taster guide. Now it’s based on commitment. I think it’s the pair of a consecrated idea that you commit, you follow through, but you would meet regularly, which translates to an investment of two hours once a month. You would be committed to evangelistic sharpening. You would be committed to staying in contact maybe through a WhatsApp group and praying for each other.
(18:02):
But the, the resources free is a pdf. If if you go there, if you go to this event, we’ve got an event landing page, advance summit org g you can scroll down there and you’ll see the blue shiny three month taster guide where you can say, okay, we, we gotta be all in. We gotta prioritize this, but let’s journey for three months and see what the fruit is. And I think the fact that you meet a month apart creates a learning loop. Okay, we’ve heard this, do the homework, or we’ve heard this, put it into practice. I actually met with a discipleship pastor and, and at a large church, and they wanted to include it in their kind of Christian education curriculum for the winter. And it put about bill, if we did it six weeks in a row, I said, I’m really not persuaded by that because you, you need to have space and time to put it into practice, you know, and Steve, this fruit. So if you and I are in the group and you say, bill what, what’s the Holy Spirit asking you to do with your five that you’re focused on, your five pre questions? Well, I’m going to take so-and-so out for dinner and I’m praying for a gospel conversation. Then I meet a month later that’s giving me enough time to book the dinner. And you can say, bell, how did it go? I’d say, Daniel, pray for me. It was a complete disaster. Or I screwed up what happened?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:23):
Gives you time to test it and Yeah. Apply it in
Bill Hogg (19:26):
Your life. Exactly. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:27):
Yeah. Now I was talking to some of the, the guys that are here, and they were telling me that they’re part of an Eden group Yeah. Up in Edmonton, where they’re going into the community, living in the community, and evangelizing and discipling people. And so tell me about the Eden Group and, and, and what you’re trying to accomplish with that.
Bill Hogg (19:48):
Great question. So it started in the uk really inspired by a scripture in the book of Ezekiel that says the city that has been laid waste has become like the Garden of Eden. And so there’s a, a vision of community transformation through gospel transformation. And there could be remainers people who live in a broken postal code or a challenging community. There could be returners maybe who grew up there when this girl got a job moved out the city and they could return, or there could be relocate who hear the disruptive call of Jesus who says, as the Father has sent me, so I’m sending you. And they’re really teams of incarnation, missionaries, whooo, roots down deep. Sometimes we engage with the poor, maybe even in a paternalistic fashion where we come in, hand out some food, wander the streets and return to suburbia.
(20:45):
And I happen to live in suburbia. So I’m, I’m pointing at three fingers back at myself there. But you’ve gotta hear a disruptive call from Jesus because it’s, it’s costly. But where it started with predominantly young adults in the United Kingdom here in the call of Jesus to move into some of these challenging postal codes and communities. And there’s, there’s some unique socio-demographics in the uk. So places like Bench Hill or Charleston or, or within Shaw, within Shaw is a sprawl of a hundred thousand people in Greater Manchester. And lots and lots of these people are going backwards financially. And one of the metrics, you could look there, they’re getting free school meals. And you go, okay, is there a partner church? And is there a place of deprivation in poverty? So it’s really the story in Edmonton’s. Beautiful. She, Moses who grew up in Sri Lanka, was traumatized by things in his family.
(21:46):
And being in a war torn country was redeemed by Jesus and has a huge heart for the broken, the poor and the marginalized. So the idea as a team of people would live in gospel community, they would intentionally discern what’s the Holy Spirit doing? How can we join them? They would do community assessments. So we don’t make assumptions about what the needs are, find out what the needs are. Do some community ex Jesus in the agendas to share the love of God, to proclaim the gospel, to bless and elevate the prayer. Now the UK story is across 20 years, there’s been more than 77 0 teams deploying over 700 urban missionaries. So it feels like a movement to me. Wow. And, and they’ve seen measurable community transformation through asset-based community development as the lens. So things like isolation, crime recede, because why the people who are salt and light are living out in front of them loving the neighborhood and loving their neighbors.
(22:51):
And so th this is one of the things we’re, we’re pursuing here in Canada. We’ve got couple leading teams in Prince George, which is a city of about a hundred thousand 12 hour drive or a short hop and a puddle jumper type aircraft from Vancouver. And we’re partnering with a great church there as part of their micro church planting strategy that the Eden teams would be catalyst for micro church. But there are couples who are recruiting teams who’ve moved into low income apartments and finding out what Jesus wants them to do. Coastal Church, which has a great motto or mantra, helping make the city a better place. They’ve got a, an Eden team under the leadership of far and Angela Mcg far is grew up a Muslim in Iran, moved to Denmark, came to Canada, got hijacked by Jesus. And he’s about 15 years into a story of being an urban missionary, I think nine years as a pastor at Coastal Church. And they live in the downtown East side. And we wanna see a proliferation of that. We’re in conversations in other places. And the strange story is during Covid, the Lord’s expanded the Eden teams, you know, here in Canada where we’ve had some very challenging restrictions for what is a high-touch ministry. It’s a community engagement ministry. So, so that’s the heart of Eden. And if people hear the destructive call of Jesus to bring good news to the poor, you can reach out to us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:28):
So you’ve been involved in evangelism for many years in, in church planning and you call yourself evangelism catalyst. So what advice would you give to a young person who might feel called to be an evangelist?
Bill Hogg (24:43):
That’s a great question. I mean, I think they could learn from you, Daniel, cuz you’ve studied the great evangelists and not all the great evangelists are platform evangelists. Like I’ve got a growing friendship with Gordon, who used to be a VP of marketing with Tommy Hilfiger, and he’s having gospel encounters and he texts me all the time photographs of people, he’s led to Christ. And there’s, there’s low hanging fruits. So I think you can learn, I mean, I’ll learn how to give an altar call from Luis Pau. And, and I would consider Luis a source of encouragement, a friend, a mentor. We can be mentored by evangelist that will never actually have a cup of coffee with if we study their life. But I’m thinking as you ask that question. When I was recruited and interviewed to come on board the church planting network as national methodologist, my friend hired me and he became my boss.
(25:42):
Were no longer in that story. That’s for a different podcast. But when I was in South Africa at Cape Town 2010, the Lord spoke to me by direct immediate revelation from the Holy Spirit. He also spoke to me from exposition of scripture and conversations and, and challenged me about the evangelist being missing in action. But the Lord spoke to me and he said, I’m redeploying you as an apostolic evangelist and I want you to work with Gord Fleming. So Gord, my friend, became my boss, but he was a maniac or a lunatic. A lunatic in terms of interviews. I had 10 interviews.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:23):
Wow.
Bill Hogg (26:23):
And some of them were sneaky like guys, says, I’m just one of a cup of coffee with you and find out what’s going on in your soul. I’m like, you stinker. You’re, you’re here to scan man and man and find out what’s going on. But God wanted to make sure we’re on the same page. So there’s great wisdom in that. But one of our meetings, he said, I don’t believe in job descriptions. I said, that’s awesome. My life mission statement is, don’t fence me in. I don’t like job descriptions. Now, I had to have a job description because Revenue Canada insisted on it. But he said, if you did have a job description, it would have three things.
(27:00):
Stay close to Jesus. Ask God to break your heart for the lost and do whatever it takes to fulfill the mission. Now I think if you and I live to be Caleb’s at 85, or you and I have birthday parties when we’re 110, I think that’s our job description. And I think that would be the job description for someone. Stick close to Jesus. Jesus says, abide, abide, abide remain in me. And the primary invitation in call is not to be an evangelist. That’s the secondary or tertiary call. The primary call is to follow Jesus and to enjoy loving union and communion with Jesus. So don’t skimp on that. You know, figure out. And it’s maybe like learning to dance. If you grew up in a legalistic Pentecostal church, how do you dance dancing’s wrong? And, and then you find it’s okay to dance and you stumble around to dance for it.
(27:55):
But stumble into spending time with Jesus, immerse in yourself in the scriptures, learning to hear his voice, and then ask God to do something na supernatural to break your heart for the lost. I mean, John Piper says, it takes a miracle to have a broken heart for the lost. And I think he’s exactly right. When I was a young, obnoxious evangelist like abrasive, I’d love to go on a time machine and sit back and evaluate young belt inaction. I would get up there somewhere, I’d still get my sermons. And there were nightmare sermons. But I would be praying and because I heard Luis Pau say that he used to prep his sermons on his knees. So I would sometimes do my sermons prep on my knees, on my bed with a notebook and a Bible. And sometimes tears would splash on my Bible as I would visualize who would be there because my local church is an act of generosity and stupidity.
(28:54):
Let me loose when I was 16 and then during a pastoral vacancy, had me preach when I was in my late teens and maybe 20. And I was a, an arrogant young punk of an evangelist. But I would be weeping and I would, I would work it as a little manipulator. I would invite the neighbors, Hey, you know, I’d really appreciate your support if you’d come because they’ve asked me to preach at church. And it would mean a lot to me if you came and I’m just getting them in my evangelist crosshairs. But I would find myself weeping in the private place, but on types just weeping. If I keep the altar call and it’s stand there being been overcome and people who were old enough to be my parents would come forward in response to an altar call. Now what does that tell us?
(29:39):
A couple of things. God can use an arrogant self-important guy who hasn’t even found out who he is cuz he’s an adolescent. You don’t know who you are. But there’s a principle. And the principle is this, those that sew with tears shall read with joy. So I don’t always weep buckets for the lost but we need to invite Jesus to, to give us soft hearts. And then the trifecta was, do whatever it takes. Well I think the root of that is just be opening, obedient, and available. Don’t be ambitious for platform. Be opening receptive to opportunity. Give Jesus your yes and get a mentor or figure out how can this gift be stewarded? Cuz there’s not a ton of developmental pathways for evangelism. And one of the things we want to do is we want to find the flames of evangelism broadly. We want to support pastors in create a culture of evangelism, embolden everyday Christians. But the evangelist is uniquely catalytic for the advancement of the gospel. So we want to figure out how can we draw them in and create a heart, create a warm fire where we can hear the stories, pray for them, encourage them, resource them. So those, those are some of the thoughts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:00):
Well, thank you so much. Let’s finish by praying for those who are listening, that God would soften our hearts for the lost. Would you pray?
Bill Hogg (31:12):
Yeah.
(31:16):
Father, your heart is filled with tenderness and compassion for the lost. And we confess that we’re sometimes like Jonah the miserable prophet who has a theology of grace and mercy and salvation who can even make a, a bold declaration. Salvation is from the Lord. But like Jonah, we don’t carry your heart for the lost. When he protested that he didn’t want to come to Ninevah because he had that gut intuition that you wouldn’t judge the nites, you would extend mercy. And we thank you that you are the Lord, the Lord, gracious and compassionate, slow anger, and full of mercy. Jesus, we thank you that when you looped out on the crowds who were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd, your move with compassion. So we pray that you would baptize us with compassion. We pray that you would give us your eyes to see the lost around us and give us your beating heart for the loss. So we invite you to soften our hearts, Lord, break our hearts, give us the gift of tears and disrupt us where we’re just doing same old, same old, with a fresh revelation of your grace in mercy towards us. That we might not be like the older brother, but we would have your heart. Jesus, the faithful and true brother who came on a mission to rescue the lost because we asked this in your name for your glory. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:52):
Amen. Well, brother Bill, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bill Hogg (32:57):
Hey, thanks Daniel. It’s been a delight. Thanks for your hospitality and the opportunity to talk about things of first importance. God bless. Thank you.
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Greg Fraser | Welcome to the Father’s House
Greg Fraser pastors The Father’s House in Sturgeon County, Alberta. Over the past 18 years the church has grown by leaps and bounds and they have recently completed a beautiful new church building. On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast, Pastor Greg talks about how the church has become an essential part of the community and about how to reach Canada for Jesus.
Website: https://www.tfhchurch.ca/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Greg Frazier pastors, the father’s house in sturgeon county, Alberta. Over the past 18 years, the church has grown by leaps and bounds, and they have recently completed a beautiful new church building on today’s episode of the evangelism podcast. Pastor Greg talks about how the church has become an essential part of the community and about how to reach Canada for Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:36):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:01):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest pastor Greg Frazier. Thank you for being with me today.
Pastor Greg Fraser (01:11):
Great to be here, Daniel. And how are you doing?
Evangelist Daniel King (01:14):
I am doing well. Thank you.
Pastor Greg Fraser (01:16):
You’re visiting us in Canada here. So we wanna make sure you’re, you know, you’re having a good time and, and God’s using you.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:23):
Yeah, absolutely. Jessica and I have had a wonderful time. It was really great to preach here at the father’s house. Yeah. Just a few weeks ago. And then my wife has helped lead worship a couple of times. Yeah. And so this, this church is very special to us because my wife grew up in Warrenville Alberta, right outside Edmonton. Yeah. Small city, but she grew up here and this church has been her church for many, many years.
Pastor Greg Fraser (01:52):
Yeah. We love you guys. And so excited that you’re when you can make it back. It’s been three years since you’ve been able to come back with all that’s going on around the world. So it’s fantastic that you’re here right now.
Evangelist Daniel King (02:03):
Yeah. We really so much love and appreciate you guys so much. And this church has just loved us and supported us and just been a, a tremendous blessing helping us to, to preach the gospel. So let’s, let’s talk a little bit about this church. When my, my wife went to the school that the church has. Yeah. She’s a graduate of the school. And then she became a missionary and this church supported her and over time, the church dwindled down to it just had a few members. Yeah. And then you came. Yeah. And since you came, God has just done amazing things here. Kinda walk me through that process of what God has done here at the father’s house.
Pastor Greg Fraser (02:51):
Well, I mean, we’ve been here for 18 years now and it’s, you know, when we first came, there was, we were probably down to about nine kids, I think, in the Christian school and, you know, 25, 30 people in the church. And so they were kind of, Symbio staying the, the church was supporting the school, the school, the church, the only families that were left were the few families that were in the school. And we were pastoring in a church of about a thousand people in Northern Canada in a very economic hotspot of Canada and felt the call to come to this little tiny community. And it was quite a significant change for us because we were you know, kind of in a position to take over that church and to lead in, into its next season. But the Lord called us to this tiny community.
Pastor Greg Fraser (03:40):
And, and you know, when God’s on you and you, you just can’t push that away. And when we first came, I remember our first Sunday here, I just had this, you know, unction from the holy spirit. And I think we had that first Sunday, there was about 17 people in the service. And I said, this church will plant churches. And, you know, we just had this destiny, this thought, and really that’s where it all began. And, and quickly God began to, to bring growth and began to call people home to the father’s house. That’s kind of our, our tagline is help people find their way home to, to God and to a relationship with him and then to live as disciples who care. And so from there, the church just began to burgeon and grow. And we were meeting in a little strip mall and then we moved to the community center.
Pastor Greg Fraser (04:32):
And then we moved from there as we continued to grow into the local high school. And then we rented the local cultural center. And and then we just had this vision and dream of, of building a church and, and dis and desiring to see more and more people find their way home. I think our, our whole methodology of even evangelism is just authentically calling people back to the destiny and the purpose and the calling that God has for. And that you’re created in the image of God, you’re an image bearer, but that image has become marred by a thing called sin. And God has sent his son to restore us to restore that image, to bring us back into relationship with himself and ultimately to give us incredible purpose. I think that so many people are misguided in the purpose of their life.
Pastor Greg Fraser (05:22):
And so that’s kind of where our church leads people into is back into a relationship with God back into incredible purpose. And that purpose is really in learning to take dominion over ourselves so that we can better serve and love others rather than taking dominion over others. So they can better serve us, which I think is kind of the pattern of the world. And so in doing that, you know, we’ve become a real family. That’s our theology. That’s how we, we think in terms of relationship, this is the family of God, God you know, we’re members of that family. And really everyone outside of that family is being called into a relationship and an adoption into that family. So from that authentic kind of
Evangelist Daniel King (06:09):
Love
Pastor Greg Fraser (06:10):
For people and our community, we’ve seen many people come to know Christ and have planted a few churches and, and seen God just do great things.
Evangelist Daniel King (06:21):
Yeah. Let’s talk about reaching out to people here in the Canadian context, because Canada is different than the United States. It’s different than the ministry that we do in Africa. Talk to me a little bit about what you feel works here in the nation of Canada for, for reaching out to people. Often they know about God. They’ve had some exposure but there’s many people that are living far away from God. How can we reach them?
Pastor Greg Fraser (06:54):
Well again, number one is always to call people to the revelation that God is for them and not against them. I think that Canadians typically they’re not antagonistic toward God, but they really don’t understand the, the, what he wants to do in their life, how he wants to have that relationship and bring them back into really living with purpose for him and within his kingdom. And I think that’s probably the greatest way in which we in our context evangelize and see people come home to the father’s house is we’re. We have the distinct advantage because we’re in a, a community of about 10,000 people and we’re highly involved in the community. So we’re involved in the government side of it. We’re involved in social services, quite heavily. We’re involved in many of the things that happened within our community. So in terms of methodology, one of the things that we’ve just done is partnered with our community.
Pastor Greg Fraser (08:00):
And so when they are holding different festivals, we’ll say, where can we serve? You know whenever we have an election, one of the things we do is we bring all the candidates in and we say, you are God’s servants. We’re here to pray for you. And we’ve seen incredible fruit from that. Including, you know, mayors getting coming to know the Lord and, and different things. So just very much involved in the rhythm of the community and a vital member of the community. We’re not on the outside of the community, we’re in the community and really calling people to understand that God wants to be part of this. I remember speaking at a businessman’s luncheon and just saying, you know you know, businesses, God wants to bless you as businessmen. His, his desire is to prosper this community. You’re actually in the serving God, by being a businessman, you know, to give people a vision of God, wanting to work in their lives, in whatever they’re doing. So that’s been really how we’ve operated in a, in a big way.
Evangelist Daniel King (08:58):
One of the innovative ideas that the father’s house is using to be in the community is right in the middle of town. You have a coffee shop yeah. Called higher grounds. Right. And it’s run as a service to the community. Almost everyone in there is a volunteer serving. And, and why do you feel like that’s important to, to be there in the middle of the community?
Pastor Greg Fraser (09:24):
Well, I mean it’s just, again, because we’re, we’re in the community there we’re accepted that way very much. And all the proceeds from that coffee shop go back into the community. So one of the interesting things, and this is what I’m talking about when we’ve developed such a positive partnership with our, with our community, that during COVID the government paid us to feed families that were having trouble feeding you know, making ends meet. And so we got a large government grant through, for about two years that just helped us. They, we were the engine that was putting out food into various families throughout our community. So that kind of partnership is just incredible. You know, we’ve, we’ve through higher grounds. We, we have a large military base outside of Morville that we in Canada the month of November is remembrance day, which is a a solemn time of remembering those who gave their lives in the service of their country. And so we’d make a huge focus on our military families and our families that have men or women deployed and doing something special for them and that month. So those kind of things, teachers we celebrate our, our police force. We celebrate our firefighters. We do different things to just make sure that we’re serving within that community and taking care of physical needs of people as part of that. So it’s been a great, great ministry of our church.
Evangelist Daniel King (10:52):
Let’s talk a little bit about C because it has presented challenges for churches all over the world. Yeah. People on both sides of the issue come at the pastor and think the pastor should have all the answers and, and think the way that they think. And so how has the father’s house thrived through this season of, of great challenge?
Pastor Greg Fraser (11:16):
Well, I think number one and the largest narrative that because you have two camps, you know, you have the extreme, I’ll say you won’t even label it, but you know, this is a, this is everybody needs to comply and everybody needs to wear a masks and everybody needs to be vaccinated. And then you have the other camp. That’s like, this is all a smoke screen. It’s all terrible. And really, it’s been interesting as a pastor because I get pulled in both directions. Why aren’t you saying more about this? Why aren’t you saying more about that? What, the one thing that we have done throughout the entire season of COVID has been to say, we are focusing on one thing. We preach the kingdom of God. And, and so we have labored tirelessly to call both extreme camps to live within the kingdom of God, because the kingdom of God is not affected by things like COVID right.
Pastor Greg Fraser (12:15):
And what I mean by that is that we, you know, the desire of God is that we live within a community of faith. That loves one another, even though we are different, even though we may have totally different opinions the one, one constant that we can hold to is Christ and, and his call to, you know, they will know that you are my followers by your love for one another. That doesn’t mean that we agree on everything. And so calling the church to that place of you may totally disagree with your brother right now, but you still love him. And I think that’s been a huge success for us is that we’ve not gone in any one direction, but we’ve just stayed straighten in narrow down that road and said, we are gonna hold to the kingdom of God. There’s life there, there’s life abundant there. And this is what we hold to.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:02):
Let’s talk about the miracle of this church building that we’re sitting in, because I saw a picture of, of a huge church building, literally coming down the highway on a huge truck. And, and so it, it tell, tell me about that and the church on the move. Yeah,
Pastor Greg Fraser (13:23):
Well, a little bit of history is of course we’re, as we continued to grow, we, we were renting every space. I remember one time we rented eight spaces in a span of seven days to house the, the ministries of our church. And we said, Lord, we need a building. And you, a little bit of our history is we had a church building that we were renting that burnt to the ground. And we, we went through floods and fires and all kinds of things. And we were believing God for a new building. So we had purchased some land and we drew up some plans and felt the, the word of the Lord came to us to go into the land, to take our provisions and to go into the land. And what that meant for us at that time was we, we prepped the land.
Pastor Greg Fraser (14:09):
So we spent over a million dollars just doing dirt work and prepping the land and building up the land and getting our services in and all that stuff. And then we said, all, we, we were gonna build the foundation. We had a plan for a church and we were gonna, we had enough money to lay the foundation. We thought, no, let’s wait until we have enough. The, the total of the funds that we need little, did we know that the Lord had a, a totally different plan for us and long I’ll jump back for a moment ago. A friend of mine who’s very prophetic in nature came to us when we first moved here and he said, I just see, I see your church. I see the angel of the Lord picking up a church and moving it onto the highway, and that you’re gonna become a regional church.
Pastor Greg Fraser (14:52):
And this was his, every time he’d come, he’d say, I just keep seeing the angel of the Lord picking up a church, moving it to the highway. You’re gonna be a regional church. And we, we thought we, we didn’t understand, God bless those prophets. They always have interesting visions, you know, so we had no concept. We’re like, well, sure. Okay. And then all of a sudden, so we’re, we’re we prepped our land and we were nowhere near having the funds to be able to build the building we were gonna build. And there was a building in a neighboring city about 19 kilometers away. And, and the building was a church building and it had been the congregation sold that building to a developer. And it was just sitting there. My wife, we would drive by it and we go to this community probably twice a week.
Pastor Greg Fraser (15:37):
And my wife would say, you know, we gotta call them. Like, we should do something with that building like, well, I wonder what they’re gonna do with that building. And, you know, the man of faith that I am, I said, well, what are we gonna do? Move it like, you know, but my wife was unrelenting. She just had an unction from the Lord. Like we gotta call them something’s up. And then we were as a church family, we we’ve done multiple. I call them collective fasts where we’ll fast as the entire body for 40 days or 50 days, whatever. So we started a 52 day Nemiah fast. And so they rebuilt the walls in 52 days. So we said, collectively as a church, we’re gonna fast for 52 days as we were fasting. I finally relented to my wife, constantly pushing me as another woman in our church started to say, I really feel the Lord saying something about that building.
Pastor Greg Fraser (16:27):
So we phoned them and said, well, what are you doing with that building? The, and the, the owners at that time was a developer said, well, you can have it. You can have this building for a tax receipt. In Canada, we can do tax receipts on charitable donations. And so I took all of our contractors. So remember, we’re in a 52 day fast, nobody knows we’re doing this. I took the contractors from our church. I said, guys, what would it cost us to deconstruct this church and move it? And would it be worth doing? And so they started the math and they started doing all the processing and all the thing. And we figured we would save well over a million dollars by doing that process. And so that’s what we did at the end of the 52 day fast. We were able to announce to our congregation guys, we have a church.
Pastor Greg Fraser (17:17):
And so we began for the next year, that whole process, we deconstructed this church, cut it into four pieces. They weighed about a, oh, I don’t know it was 135,000 pounds a piece. We ended up moving them down the highway and across 18 farmers fields. We drove in the middle of the winter because the ground had to be frozen. And we drove these four pieces of this building. We put it on a foundation with a, a large basement as well, which then housed our Christian school and our church. And that was two years ago. And God has just done this incredible miracle of in the middle of the greatest downturn in the economy, in the middle of COVID. We built a multimillion dollar facility and God has just done an incredible work. And the church has been growing since
Evangelist Daniel King (18:08):
It’s a huge miracle. And, and we rejoice at what God has done. It. It’s a wonderful, beautiful church building now all over Canada in rural cities and villages, there are church buildings like this church building that used to be vibrant congregations, but now maybe they’re not being used. And God has actually given you a, a plan, an idea for reviving these churches. Tell me about that.
Pastor Greg Fraser (18:40):
Well, one of the things that we, we run a multi-site model and but we’re a little bit different of a multi-site model. I don’t, I don’t telecast to the multi sites. What I do is I train up younger leaders and they go, and they’ll, they’ll speak at those multi sites. And so our dream, my next now, you know, having during COVID nobody had 2020 vision in 2020 to see COVID coming. Really, if we were honest as pastors, but you know, now God is beginning to birth. Another dream, that dream back into getting ready to start planting more churches again. And so for us, it’s always been about discipleship. And so we raise up young leaders, they basically follow a week behind us in our messages, so I’ll preach, and then they’ll take that message and adapt it and go to the multisite and, and speak that.
Pastor Greg Fraser (19:29):
And then anyway, the whole process is quite powerful for us because we had three, two multisite going, and one of our multisite leaders got, had an aortic aneurysm. So we had to cover him for a year. Our other multisite leader was on maternity leave for a year. So we had to cover all three sites simultaneously, but because of our methodology of, I would speak on the main Sunday. And then the following week, the other multi sites would follow behind. We were able to manage it sending younger staff members and really training them to do that. So it’s been a great methodology. And our dream is to see more of these church buildings. We’ve been given completely given a church building already. And that’s, our dream is to go into these communities that have small churches or churches that are lying dormant or congregations that are saying we’re dying. We don’t know how to take the next step. Our desire is to go in and say, Hey, let us come in and partner with you. And let’s put little father’s houses all over Canada, Northern Canada. That’s kind of the dream.
Evangelist Daniel King (20:35):
Amen. Well, the dream shall shortly surely come to pass in Jesus name. Let’s finish by praying for Canada and praying for what God wants to do in this nation.
Pastor Greg Fraser (20:51):
Amen. You want me to pray? Go for it. Okay. So father, God, we just thank you that Lord, I just thank you for our national Anthem Lord that God, we stand on God for the, for Canada, Lord, I thank you that we pray in our national Anthem. God keep our land glorious and free. Holy spirit. I ask you to flood this nation, flood this nation with your presence, flood this nation with your power Lord, God, cause the revelation of Jesus Christ to flood this nation God, in our nation’s capital Lord, you you’ve en engraved that scripture on our parliament building God that the people perish for a lack of vision and Lord, we, we pray for the vision of God, the revelation of God, to flood Canada, that people would know that you are for them and not against them. Lord God that you love them. I pray that you would open the eyes of their heart tear. The veil that has kept it, them blinded to the revelation of Christ and made Jesus Christ have dominion from sea to sea and from the river to the ends of the earth in this nation in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:10):
Amen. Pastor Greg, thank you so much for being a guest on the evangelism podcast.
Pastor Greg Fraser (22:14):
Woohoo. It’s a blast. Thanks for having me, Daniel.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:17):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus. And I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the evangelism podcast on apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with king ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (23:36):
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John Kingma | Church Planting that Works
John Kingma spent time as a missionary in Indonesia. Now he is taking the lessons and techniques he learned on the foreign mission field and using them to plant a church in St. Albert, Alberta. On today’s episode, he will share a church planting method that actually works.
Connect with John Kingma: https://www.facebook.com/john.kingma
Connect with Life Church in St. Albert: https://www.facebook.com/Life-Church-St-Albert-105181072061422
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
John Kingma spent time as a missionary in Indonesia. Now he’s taking the lessons and technique he learned on the foreign mission field and using them to plant a church in St. Albert, Alberta. On today’s episode, he will share a church planting method that actually works.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:28):
Welcome to The Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:51):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast and I’m Daniel King. And I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, John Kema in St. Albert Canada. Thank you for being on the evangelism podcast.
Pastor John Kingma (01:05):
Well, thanks for having me, man.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:07):
Now we first met in Indonesia. That’s right. You were living there at the time and we came and we got to do a gospel festival with you and we had tremendous results and you actually went there as a missionary, right. And you married a beautiful girl. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> tell me about how that all happened.
Pastor John Kingma (01:29):
Wow. That’s a long story, but make it a little bit shorter. I always said to the Lord, you know, I’m just gonna follow you with all my heart and soul, and I’m not gonna be distracted by looking for a mate in life. And if you have someone for me, you know, my address and you know how to get ahold of me. And so a friend of mine in Indonesia asked me to come and do a series of meetings in his church. And after the service, people were just filing out the church and just shaking hands and saying hi. And when my wife passed by and shook hands with me, I felt the hand of God go in, literally go inside of me and pull me towards her. And so prayed about it and felt this is something of the Lord. And then that’s what started it all. And yeah, within a few months we had made the decision to get married. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:22):
Now tell me a little bit about the, the type of ministry that you did when you were in Indonesia.
Pastor John Kingma (02:28):
Wow. That was very varied as well. We would do large crusades. We did that probably some of the largest ones. We had crowds of around 10,000 people in some of the largest events. But we also about once a month, we go into a village somewhere like remote, many of which had no electricity. And so it was a real missionary experience, but I love villages. I grew up on a farm. My wife is from a village. And so we would go into those places be in a church, set up some sort of small crusade type event. And then during the day we would go and knock on people’s doors and just pop in and visit them and pray with them and whatever, and do that. And then later on, my wife had a word from the Lord about feeding the poor, and we started to feed people on the streets, the street, people that were living on the streets. And eventually that led to her starting a home for homeless women that had mental difficulties. So yeah, that kind of, that’s kind of what we did mostly.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:38):
And so now you’ve come back here to Canada and you are currently living in St. Albert and you are planting a church right here in Canada, but you’re really approaching your church planting with a missionary type mindset because you are reaching out to people that that may not be Christians. So talk to me about how you’re doing this church plant.
Pastor John Kingma (04:07):
Yeah, well, it was very important for us to do it that way because I believe God wants to start a church planning movement. And I saw a lot of churches being planted where they would either send a large, you know, group of people from one church to start another, or they would do something over the internet, try to attract as many Christians as possible. And we wanted to be very organic and, and really reach local people. So when we came here we just started with people we had met and and gotten to know. And then a lot of what we do is just go out in the community, try to meet people. We go to things like farmer’s markets, car shows anywhere where people get together and try to make a friend or two. I also have a business card done up with dream interpretation and divine healing.
Pastor John Kingma (05:01):
And we’ve had a lot of people respond to that, you know, wanting to know what their dreams mean. And then we are able to show them how this relates to what the Bible says, cuz God’s very consistent with what he tells people. And so translate it for them out of scripture and show them how God is actually inviting them into a conversation. And that’s born good fruit as well. And just believe in God, words of knowledge, sometimes whatever, you know, you just go out on the street and meet people and make friends and, and let the Lord move in that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:35):
And so you’re not trying to reach other Christians or send people from one church out to start another church. You’re actually going into the community, looking for people who maybe don’t know anything about God and you’re trying to reach them.
Pastor John Kingma (05:50):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, is, you know, if you get a transfer growth comes with its own set of problems, cuz usually disgruntled people stayed disgruntled, no matter who’s in front of them. But the purpose of planting churches is to reach people. I, I personally believe that God wants to do something in this city. That’s gonna result in growth in all churches. And rather than, you know, you always think about as a business person, I’m a business person. You look at where your greatest potential is for growth in your market. And if I’m competing in this space for Christian people, well there’s churches with big budgets, there’s churches with all kinds of stuff, you know? I don’t want to compete in that space, but if I go after people that don’t know Jesus, there’s a lot of less competition and a lot more opportunity. So, and so it’s about identifying who you are, what God’s purpose for you in your community is and connecting with people in that community. And it’s amazing how often God matches you with people that are exactly with what you’re dealing with. It’s just interesting.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:09):
Let’s talk about being by vocational. So you are in ministry, you always have a heart for ministry. You’re always ministering to people. You’re, you’re planting the church. But you also have a business, a carpet cleaning business, which my father ran a carpet cleaning business for, for several years. And so you’re cleaning carpets, but you’re also looking to, to clean hearts. How does that work out? Doing both business and ministry?
Pastor John Kingma (07:37):
Well, it’s hard. I’ll just be honest. It takes a lot of hours. I read a verse the other day in Corinthians where Paul was talking about how the churches were growing because they worked <laugh>. You have to work to get people to come to Jesus. It’s work to get out of the community and meet new people. You know, there’s nights. You don’t feel like it. You feel like sitting at home and watching a movie, but you get off your butt and you go out and you meet someone and you wind up having a great time doing it. And the joy of the Lord shows up in the middle of that thing. But when it comes to work too, you, you know, you need to switch your mindset. I I’m about my father’s business. Now I’m about my father’s business. See, I’m a son of the king.
Pastor John Kingma (08:19):
And so I’m about the kingdom business. So when I come into a home and clean carpets, Jesus wrapped a towel around his waist and he washes disciples feet. And he says, as I’ve served, you, you serve others. So when I’m there, I’m all about serving that person. Cuz that’s what Jesus told me to do. I’m about my father’s business. So the way I do business and the character that I do business with and, and how I’m accountable for what I do and how I’m willing to do whatever it takes to make it right for people and other things that we do in, in the business realm, we’re actually bringing God’s kingdom there. And when the opportunity comes we teach our people in our church. The one question that every Christian needs to be an expert at asking is can I pray for you? And you would be surprised how many times we’re in a home or we’re in a restaurant or we’re in some situation. And there’s an opportunity to say, Hey, can I pray for you? And people respond to that. It’s it’s really amazing. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:17):
So let’s talk about the power of that phrase. Can I pray for you? It’s a very simple phrase, but it really opens up people’s hearts. Do you have any testimonies of what people have asked for prayer for when you’ve been asking them this? Oh
Pastor John Kingma (09:32):
Wow. I have a lot of testimonies. I remember being on at a bus stop in Edmonton guy, sat down with beside me and I just turned to him and said, Hey, you know, I’m a Christian and I’m out here. Can I pray for you? Weirdest response I ever had, he just grabbed my shirt with his two hands and put his head right here and just started a ball. And I found out that he was a backslidden Christian <laugh> and he was on his way and he was gonna go have a bender. And he was just like, you know, God just convicted him. Right there, turned his life around. I remember just the other day we were cleaning a carpet for a guy who owns a restaurant. He was complaining about his back and everything like that. And I just turned to my wife and said, we need to pray for him. So <laugh> we went and we prayed for him and it just he’s like, yeah. Okay. I guess, you know, and he, and then you’re able to pray in those situations. It’s it’s really amazing. Really amazing, you know?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:30):
Yeah. We just did a great outreach in broken arrow, Oklahoma down in the United States at a street fair where we put up a booth and just put up a big sign that said free prayer. And then as people walked by, we gave them a, a drink of water. We had bottles of water and we said, Hey, we, we’re also praying for people it’s free. What do you need prayer for? And we found so many people to be open and it’s over a three day period. We prayed with over 300 people. We had 56 give their lives to Jesus and pray with us for salvation. And so we’re gonna take that same idea to the Tulsa state fair, awesome this year. And they’ve given us permission to have a booth. We’re actually gonna have a little platform with a sound system and then a, a, a prayer tent. And as people come through, we’re going to pray with them last year. 1.1 million people came through the Tulsa state fair. And so I think one of the challenges of evangelism in the church is, is people think people are well, if they want to get saved, they’ll come into the church. But really I think the church needs to go to where the people are. Talk to me about that.
Pastor John Kingma (11:43):
Okay. Well the Lord challenged me in this cuz a lot of churches talk about, you know, how do we get outside the four walls of the church? And the phrase the Lord said to me is forget the walls, just have church outside. And the thing is, is people are not coming to a church unless they have a meaningful relationship with someone. Who’s a believer. I remember doing an evangelistic campaign one summer. I worked in a church as a on staff evangelist. We did an evangelistic campaign. We did follow up, we did all that stuff and I collected data. And what we found out was that 100% of the people that followed through with their decision to follow Jesus and wound up in a church, had a significant relationship with the Christian before they accepted Jesus a savior. So your friendship is everything.
Pastor John Kingma (12:36):
And our, you know, in our church, when we build our church, coffee, pot is one of the most important things. We want to have time for fellowship. We want the, for us, that’s just as important as the service cuz it was in the, in the, in the new Testament. They continued in, in the apostles doctrine and in fellowship in breaking of bread and in prayer. And so those were just as important as prayer. And so that’s vital. That relationship is what brings about discipleship. You think about it. Are you going to go to a complete stranger and say, Hey, what about this in my life? No, but will you go to your friend? Absolutely. So natural discipleship flows along relationship. So we don’t just go out on the street and just randomly talk to people, pray for ’em. Okay. See you later. We always have a point of contact.
Pastor John Kingma (13:30):
So we are continually running an alpha program in our house because we find that’s a very safe place for people from non-church backgrounds to come and discover Jesus. And so we have that constantly running because we can plug people in as we’re meeting them. You know, we’re meeting people, we wanna follow up at Tim Hortons with a coffee, you know, or Starbucks or wherever they like to hang out. And we want to have that relationship beyond going because if you don’t, you’re gonna lose him. You absolutely hard. The relationship is everything. Look what Jesus did. He walked with people for years. He didn’t just randomly call disciples and then take off. He walked with 12 guys for three years and that was a real relationship because they slept in the same place. They went and ate in the same place. You know, they followed him everywhere. That was very important. Concept is the relationship aspect. And to miss that means that you’re not gonna get quality discipleship.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:28):
I really like what you’re saying. That discipleship requires relationship. I think one of the, the challenges of many discipleship programs, a lot of people are, are moving online and they think if I can just put videos together and training materials, then I can disciple thousands and thousands of people. But it’s really hard to disciple someone without that, that face to face connection. It is. So not only are you planning a church, but you also want to train church planters. Yep. Both in the Canadian context and also in the international context you have lots of experience in Africa and Indonesia and other parts of the world. And so we have lots of listeners that have a heart for evangelism. I’m sure many of them would like to plan a church. What advice would you give to someone who has a heart to plan a church?
Pastor John Kingma (15:22):
Just do it, just do it. So in our church and with people that we’re discipling, we always talk about let’s redefine church. Okay. So we’re always talking about it. You know, most modern churches is a building central location. But Jesus said where two or three are gathered in my name I’m right in their midst. And so that means that you have to have people gathering together, not just for the sake of gathering together, but Jesus has to be involved. So just getting together and sharing food is not church, but when you get together share food and talk about Jesus. Now you’re having church. So when you redefine church that way, then it’s about, and the other thing that’s exciting is Jesus never said all three of the people had to be Christians. So if you’re sitting there with two, your unsaved buddies and you’re talking about what Jesus is doing in your life that’s church, Jesus is gonna show up and so go and have church as much as possible.
Pastor John Kingma (16:26):
I mean, use the local coffee shop, use a local restaurant you know, your breaks at work. You’re, you know, wherever it is that God opens a door for you, you can just go and have church and then start to take that and take the relationships that come out of that and start to put it together into a regular ongoing thing where it could be in your home could be a small location. You rent. Usually it’s really good to start in the home because that is what church is about. So our goal is to raise up people that will think like entrepreneurs, because everywhere you go, you’re gonna have different things. Even you go in the same country to a different city, you’re gonna have different things to overcome in that city. There’s gonna be a different mentality in the people. There’s gonna be different strengths and weaknesses as you go in and you’re just gonna have to figure it out.
Pastor John Kingma (17:21):
So as an entrepreneur in the business world, what you do is you try an idea. If it fails, you learn from it. Try another idea until you find an idea that works and you can build a business that makes money well in the Christian world as a church planter, I go and I try something. If it fails, I learn from it and I try something else. And I keep going until I find something that works and that’s gonna work in that community that people are attracted to, or that people connect with. And that we start getting traction and start making disciples of Jesus. So that’s kind of, if you’re a new church planner, just go try it, just try something. How can I have church here? Help me. Holy spirit. Talk to me, show me the opportunities. Ask that little question. Can I pray for you that opens so many doors and yeah, just go for it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:12):
Well, let’s finish with a word of prayer. Would you pray for people who are called by God to be church planners and to build relationships that lead to discipleship?
Pastor John Kingma (18:23):
Awesome. We’ll do so father, we just lift up those who are either watching or listening. And Lord, we just pray for them. Father there’s many people that the fire of evangelism burns strong and in their heart, but they don’t know how to connect that to a local church. And I know Lord Jesus, that church planning is a great way to do that. And for many people who have this thing, they want to see the kingdom advanced. They want to see God’s kingdom move forward. And they’re not sure where to go, father. I just pray for them. Lord Jesus, that you would just somehow through this conversation, that there would be just an idea, a spark in their life that would just take hold and that they would just be able to go for it. I just pray for boldness like you, like it was prayed for an acts of boldness and that when they pray for people, people would be healed. That demons would be cast out when they prayed for people that you give them authority and Jesus’ name and that you would give them wisdom as they talk. And they share about you in Jesus’ name.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:28):
Amen. Amen. Well, thank you for being on the evangelism podcast.
Pastor John Kingma (19:32):
Well, thanks for having me. That’s a lot of fun.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:33):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the evangelism podcast on apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with king ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:53):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
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Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Jocelyn Hansen | Moving into the Heart of a Community
Jocelyn Hansen leads Fusion Canada, a ministry focused on working alongside people of goodwill to transform local communities. She does this by building relationships and doing life with people within a community. Fusion Canada is reaching people with the love of Jesus in a uniquely Canadian way.
Learn more about Fusion Canada: https://fusioncanada.ca/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Jocelyn Hansen leads, fusion, Canada, a ministry focused on working alongside people of Goodwill to transform local communities. She does this by building relationships and doing life with people within a community fusion. Canada is reaching people with the love of Jesus in a uniquely Canadian way.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:33):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:56):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest, miss Jocelyn Hanson. She leads fusion Canada. We are in Warrenville Alberta. And thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (01:16):
Thank you, Daniel. It’s really exciting to be able to share the story with you. So thank you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
So let’s start at the beginning. Tell me what is fusion Canada?
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (01:27):
Well, fusion Canada is a branch of fusion international, which started in Australia 65 years ago by a name man named Mel Garvin, who was a young man at the time, searching for his purpose in life and came across a Bible camp and found Jesus there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
And how did you get connected to fusion international?
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (01:50):
So then interestingly enough, my daughter was working in Canmore, Alberta, right outta high school. And she met the Australians who had come to see bam and Jasper. And they asked her if she had a passion, what her passion was. And she said, oh, she would love to go to Africa someday. And they said, well, come in to fusion inter in Australia. And that’s how it got started.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:17):
And then later you ended up bringing it here to Canada because it had such a tremendous impact on your daughter’s life.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (02:25):
Then there were some people in Edmonton who were already connected and they had brought the internationals to bam. And so we did our first foundations course, I think 2003. And it just struck a chord with my heart to serve the community in the front lines and to find creative ways to care for people in our communities.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:49):
I really love your focus on going into a community and having an impact in the community. Tell me kind of what fusion does. What is the goal of fusion
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (03:02):
We wanna share? The good news of God’s love, and we wanna do it in a way that’s by making relationships and walking with people on their journeys. The gospel comes alive when we’re walking with each other and we’re sharing God’s love. And that looks many, many, many different ways. Whether it’s for young people at risk or seniors who need help or mental illness we let it be creative where it is it isn’t cookie cutter. And that’s what I love about it. You go into a community and you say, God, what are you doing here? And then he invites you into the story that he’s already well on with. And then we get to be a part of that because God is good.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:53):
Now it sounds like there’s many different expressions of how fusion reaches out to the community and gets involved in what God is doing. And I, I know talking to your son-in-law Mattie, he loves doing block parties and, and going into a community and just bringing people together and having a time of fellowship. And so you have block parties. What are some other ways that you, you reach into a community and make a difference?
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (04:20):
Yeah, so the, the festival, the block party came out of wanting churches and community organizations to work together. So we were in west Edmonton for over 10 years and we did breakfast clubs in junior highs and high schools. And we worked with the police, the community leagues, the churches, anybody that wanted to make a difference in their community, believing always that together we’re better. And together there is hope that we all bring something that is essential to the responses of the needs in the community. And that no one of us has all of the answers, but together we can really shine the light of Jesus in a community. So with that, we also have some training foundations is sort of the underpinning knowledge of the gospel living with God, living with others, living with yourself and then community transformation, but always the goal is to inspire a kingdom cell group of people who can then go and see what the Lord’s doing and, and play the part that they’re invited to play.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:29):
Let’s talk more about the foundations course, because it sounds like that’s really the foundation mm-hmm <affirmative> to discipling and, and really turning people from maybe someone who doesn’t have much exposure to God, to really having a living relationship with God. So kind of describe to me, what does the foundation’s course look like? How does someone go through it and, and what are some of the things that they learn as they go through?
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (05:56):
Mm, thanks, Daniel. When I did foundations for the first time I grew up in the church, my dad was a pastor, so I wasn’t really expecting to blow, be blown away. I thought, you know what, you know, and I probably came with some arrogance in, in all of that. And I think what I loved the most was that it was actually tools of how important it is to listen to another human being and why listening is so profound. And then things about our own like body, soul, and spirit. We’ve all got bruises and deficits. We’ve all got things that have gone wrong because we live in a broken world, but then the redemption of Jesus and the forgiveness of Jesus and the glory of God, justice, mercy, and compassion. And so whether you’re a new believer or whether you’ve been believing for 40 years, I found that the course always meets you where you’re at and the group of people that God in brings together for that time that we share is always for the work that he wants to do. So it allows for a large gamut of flexibility for sharing the gospel and going deeper at the same time.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
And so how does <affirmative> and so how does, how do people go through the foundation’s course? How long does it take to go through it?
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (07:18):
So we could, we have a one week foundations course that would be generally residential. So we’d rent a camp and 40 or 50 of us would turn up and we would do life together. And it would be from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. And it was foundations is a really, really jampacked course, most would say, there’s too much for too little time. So now we’ve done a 12 week with two weekend retreats. We’ve done it as small groups in churches, and we’re going to do one starting in September here in Warrenville. It will run till December 14th and we’ll also have pods from other communities. So we’re gonna try something new this time, but the whole idea is that you’re doing it with a group of people that you’re actually doing life with because that’s kind of where the rubber hits the road, isn’t it? The gospel is meant to be lived out it’s meant to be transformational. And so when you wrestle these things with people who are particularly not of the same views as you might be, it even gets more deep and more exciting about finding how much God loves us and how much grace he has for us. And so it has been super profound in my life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:38):
You’ve used this, this term doing life together several times now. So can you give me some examples or some testimonies of how you are doing life together with others and kind of what God has done through those relationships? Mm,
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (08:57):
Yeah, I think for the many people that the Lord has brought that call themselves fusion, Canada has been that small group of friends that wanna do life together, share in the hard stuff cry with each other, laugh with each other, rejoice with each other be on mission with each other, but not as an event or a program, but really where the rubber hits the road doing life together. So I know there’s times when yeah, profound times where I have had crisis in my own family with my children or my grandchildren. And I have been had this group of friends that have been around me that have prayed for me and celebrated me and held me up when I just wanted to fall down. And I think that’s been the biggest thing where, mm, yeah, it, it was very, very deep.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (09:57):
I, I guess that’s the word that I would use people who have your back prayer warriors who are around you and diverse people that I may not have chosen if I had to choose. And I, I think that’s the other thing I celebrate is that who I was 10 years ago is thank God different than who I am now, the refiners fire and my, my diverse group of small group of friends that I do life with that challenge me, ask me the hard questions. So it’s not superficial. And I guess that’s what I love about it. Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:35):
That’s wonderful right now we’re sitting inside a fusion thrift shop is right here in downtown. Morville more is not very big, no like 7,000 people, but this is the, the little town where my wife grew up and you have this, this thrift shop here. But it’s under the, the fusion ministry. And so you’re using it to, to reach out to the community. You’re right here in the middle of the community. The other day, my, my wife was helping my father-in-law to clean out his house. And so we had some stuff and, and brought it over here and we saw that you already put it out for sale <laugh>. And my wife even came and bought some, some books and stuff at, so we’re being part of the community. And, but kind of talk to me about the, the vision for this thrift shop and, and how you use it to, to help people in the community.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (11:25):
Yeah. And that’s a really good segue to what do we mean by community? So I will have my community of people around me, and then there’s the community of Warrenville and the people that we do life with. And so how the Lord birthed this thrift story is always an amazing story to me. Kathy, the assistant manager, and I turned up to do sandwiches for a funeral at our church. And we ended up having this amazing conversation and, and we both had a heart to do this. And honestly, within weeks it was happening and both of us would look back and say, wow, we did not see this exact thing coming. And so the goodness of God he wanted something in the heart of this community where people can come shopping. Yes. Providing reasonably priced clothing in housewares, because there is no clothing store in Morville would be one very upfront need.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (12:25):
But I’ve just found that people will be dancing and singing to Johnny Cash. I’ve been sharing my story with some people who ask questions and, and they say, I gotta get back to church and my son died and I need some support. And so the whole, the whole place has been so holy spirit filled the conversations that we have. Now, we have a partnership with Jesse’s house victim services, social services, the town, the hotel other congregations who have people in need. And really you can’t outgive God Daniel, you can’t outgive God. So as fast as it pours in, as fast as it can go out people are being blessed by the abundance and generosity of people who donate to the store. And we’ve just been able to pour that abundant blessing back out the front door. And I am in awe. I go to tell you, I stand in awe of the goodness of God and yeah, how much he loves Warrenville and how much he loves this community and how much he wants to be revealed to his people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:41):
Well, I so love all the different things that, that fusion Canada is doing. Let’s talk a little bit about vision. What do you hope to see God do in the future and how can this reach other people here in Canada and other parts of the world?
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (13:59):
Yeah, look, that’s that’s a really good question. We walk, we walk by faith, not by sight. We walk day by day and what I see the Lord doing now, moving Maddy and Ashley to Australia here in the next year, it’s going to become very related to fusion in our, in India, Nepal Africa, where we have people who really want to have foundations more accessible. And so using zoom and, and other technology to make the teaching and the training except accessible for the purpose of discipleship, not for the purpose of getting more information in people’s head, but for the purpose of serving remote Indian communities. So that, and in Canada, I would love to fly into Northern remote areas. We’ve always had a dream of flying into Northern remote areas, doing the foundations course, doing festivals, empowering and training teams, so that it isn’t dependent on us, but that you can encourage others who are waiting to share the gospel and give them hope and a way to do that. So across Canada in the Northern remote areas and yeah, Jerusalem Judea, and to the end of the earth,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:22):
What a tremendous vision. Well, we have lots of listeners who are here in Canada and in other parts of the world. And, and so if someone’s listening and they would like to find out more about fusion or, or even support what God is doing through you, what’s your website. What’s a way that they could find more information about you.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (15:41):
Yes, you can go to canadafusion.ca. And everything that we’ve talked about today, there’s snippets of it. All, all the contact information is there as well, Daniel, and we would love to dream with people. We would say, what’s God doing in your community and how can the tools we have help you to grow that and bring life and hope to that. So that would be our offer and we would be happy to come wherever you are.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:14):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.
Jocelyn Hansen – Fusion Canada (16:18):
Thank you, Daniel and blessings to you and your family and king ministries as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:24):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus. And I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the evangelism podcast on apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with king ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more, but please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (17:43):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit kingministries.com. Again, that’s kingministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Filipe Drumond | It’s Time for Revival in Canada
Filipe Drumond is from Brazil but he now lives in Canada. He is the founder of Last Harvest Evangelistic Association. He has a heart to lead people to Jesus in Canada and around the world. On today’s episode we talk about what it will take for revival to break out in Canada.
Website: http://www.lastharvest.ca/
Transcript:
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (00:00):
Filipe Drumond is from Brazil, but he now lives in Canada. He is the founder of last harvest evangelistic association. He has a heart to lead people to Jesus in Canada and around the world. On today’s episode, we talk about what it will take for revival to break out in the nation of Canada.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:33):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (00:57):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I’m with a very special friend, Philip Drummond is a great Canadian evangelist. Welcome to the evangelism podcast.
Filipe Drumond (01:11):
Thank you so much, Daniel. It’s a real privilege and pleasure to be here.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (01:14):
And so right now you’re living in Canada, you’re from Calgary. But where are you from originally?
Filipe Drumond (01:21):
I was born in Brazil.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (01:23):
And tell me about what type of evangelism you’re doing
Filipe Drumond (01:27):
Well, <laugh> it, it really takes shape in, in so many forms. I’m invited to go as a, as a pro proclamation evangelist. I share the gospel with neighbors and friends, and so basically finding of any way possible to communicate the gospel. And there’s a lot of relationship in all of that.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (01:48):
And how did you first become interested in evangelism?
Filipe Drumond (01:51):
That’s a great question. It was really I think it was mostly through my parents’ example. You see the gospel was so practical. The church was so practical in the way I was raised. And my mother knew the power of prayer. My father loved scripture and he was a great storyteller and there were church planters. So we, we saw God saving, transforming lives. And Sunday school also played a huge part cuz even as I was very young, I wanted to see my neighbors, my cousins having an experience with Christ, a relationship with the Lord. And so I started inviting them to come in, to come to Sunday school. I think that was Sunday school was, was, was the foundation of it.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (02:31):
So how did you come from Brazil to Canada?
Filipe Drumond (02:34):
Great question. Well there’s two elements. I think we’ve lived in the us prior to that. And my parents also, my father received an invitation to pastor church in Toronto in Eastern Canada. And so that was those two motivations. I think they wanted to give us as well, another shot in north America, but there was this invitation. So early 2001, we moved from Brazil to Toronto.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (03:02):
And so you have your own ministry. You are a Canadian charity. Yes. And so people in Canada can give to you. And we actually have a Canadian ministry as well, king ministries, Canada, and I found that people in Canada are very generous towards evangelism. What, what’s the name of your ministry?
Filipe Drumond (03:24):
So it’s called last harvest evangelistic association. Our website is last harvest.ca.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (03:33):
And tell me about what you see God doing in the nation at Canada. I know living in Calgary, you have a, a heart for Canada. I always like to say all of Canada for Jesus. What, what do you see God doing in the, the American neighbor to the north
Filipe Drumond (03:52):
<Laugh>? Well, you know, I think there’s so much changing, happening, happening around us in so many levels, our notion of ministry. I think it’s changing the role of a minister. I think it’s changing the role of the church placed in a particular community. I think it’s also being challenged and changing. So to be honest, I think it’s, it’s, it’s hard for, to, to say, well, this is really where things are going, but for me as an event, just it’s really exciting because especially after the pandemic or as we’re still kind of going through this is that, that everything has been put to test. So church goers are asking fundamental questions. Like, what is the church really? What, what is this that I’ve been part of for the last 10, 15, 20 years? Or what does it really mean to follow Christ or what is the gospel message?
Filipe Drumond (04:40):
I, I, I, I went through loss. I saw family members dying through during the pandemic and, and I wasn’t ready to go through all of this. So what does it really mean to follow Christ? So these fundamental questions opens this huge door for discipleship, for inquiry and people to go desiring, to go deeper, to know more and also with, for non-believers. I think there’s a, there’s a greater, let’s say softness and desire to understand more about life purpose, meaning why am I am I in this earth, so to speak? So I am finding amazing opportunities for the gospel.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (05:18):
Now you’re you’re from Canada, but you also travel to other nations. What are some of the things you’ve been seeing God do in other nations?
Filipe Drumond (05:26):
Well, I just came back from the upper belt of Nigeria. And today I think Nigeria, there’s such a systematic massacre really, of, of Christians in Northern Nigeria, especially in the Northwest and Kauna state. And a lot of the students that I’m working with in evangelists that I’m working with there brings, they bring so many stories of what is going on the persecution. However, in the same place, you see a church that is so fervent in prayer. And so many followers of Christ who are really fervent and sold out to the gospel despite persecution. So that’s one thing. Another country that I was recently last March was Ethiopia. And what I sensed as, as I prayed and prepared to go into Ethiopia in my heart, but also confirmed with local leaders in Ethiopia is that leaders in Ethiopia are find they, they realize that they have a window of opportunity to reach the nation, to plant churches, to mobilize believers, to disciple, to equip, identify evangelists.
Filipe Drumond (06:30):
And there is this huge sense of urgency because they don’t know for how long. So these are the most recent places I’ve been. Now. I’m also leaving in a couple of days on July now to Brazil, which is a nation in Alaska. It’s almost like they, we in Brazil, we’ve, we’ve had a a hundred year revival almost considering the rate of, in which the church is growing, but there seems to be most recently this new fire and passion, especially in the hearts of young people, for missions. And and they realize now that they have a global voice to social media and content production and all of that. So there’s so much to say about Brazil, but those are the three recent nations that I’m in touch with
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (07:14):
Years ago, God spoke to me and said, Daniel, the mission field shall become a mission force. Yes. And I think we’re seeing that in many different nations around the world, like Brazil, where they are on fire for God, historically missionaries went to Brazil, they went to south America, they went to Africa. But now what we’re seeing is that the, the global south is where Christianity is on fire. People are excited about serving God. I mean, when you go to a Brazilian church, often they are singing songs, they’re dancing. They are, they, they don’t just do a 45 minute service. The service can go for several hours sometimes just because people are excited about God. And, and I love that passion and excitement in Brazil, but I, I really like what you said about how they’re starting to think about missions in Brazil. And so now God is sending people like you like your family other people from Africa and other parts of the world, back to these nations that have historically been mission sending countries.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (08:25):
And so when you think about Canada over the years, Canada has sent missionaries all over the world. They’ve been a great missionary sending nation, but there’s so many people in Canada right now that need Jesus. Yes, there is a need for revival. And so now and Canada is very welcoming to people coming from other nations people who, who want to come there’s there’s work for them to do. There’s a way for them to come in that in many ways, they’re way more welcoming even than the United States is. And, and, and people want to immigrate to Canada because there is a good life there. But what I think we’re going to see is that, and what I really hope God does is that people that are on fire for God come to Canada and, and will join hands with the churches that are there to now take Jesus yes. To Canada. Absolutely because God loves Canada.
Filipe Drumond (09:21):
Yeah, absolutely. I think, again, I, I think, you know, Canada is, is a very different country, government culture. The, the identity of the church in a certain way is very different from what we see here in, in the United States. And there is this subculture within the Christian world, I would say in Canada, where there are, there are miracles happening in so many people coming to Christ within the Persian community Iranians and African community and Asian community within the Chinese community the, the north north north Indian community people from Gujarat or Punjab. And this is really, really amazing. I think what I think for the, for the for the, the, the main church in Canada we need to catch up when it comes to working with these ethnic groups. And we have a large number of these people in those communities. So it’s very exciting. It’s a mission field. Canada is a mission field. So if you’re planning to plan a church, if you’re an evangelist, if you have a burden to reach the world, you can go to Canada and, and one day you can, you, you can meet you with so many cultures and lead so many people to Christ.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (10:36):
Yeah. God is bringing the mission field here to us. So tell me about Calgary. Are there people from lots of different countries in Calgary now?
Filipe Drumond (10:45):
There is there, there, there certainly is. I think some people say that Calgary is the most Americanized city in in, in Canada, but yet it’s a, it’s a, we have the largest mosque, one of the largest mosques in the in, in the Western hemisphere that certainly the largest in Canada in Calgary, you have over five or six gures, which are the Sikh temples anyways huge Ethiopian community and so on. So there’s people from all over the world in Calgary. And the cool thing about the culture in Calgary, it’s a very entrepreneurial mentality in that city. So what I’m trying to say is someone who wants to go and start something either in the, in, in the marketplace or to plant the church or house church movement evangelism personally, I think the harvest is ripe. The time is now, the Lord is ready. Not only in Calgary, but in Canada and throughout the United States.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (11:43):
Well, I am so thankful that for the heart that the Canadian people have for the world, I actually met my wife when she was working for a Canadian evangelist and, and my wife is Canadian. She grew up in Warrenville right outside Edmonton. It’s just a little tiny suburb there. And, and so she came from this little tiny Canadian town. And from there, she has now traveled around the world. She spent almost 10 years on the mission field. She was two years in India, a year in Nepal, and you’re in Papa, new Guinea a year in Kenya. And then she started working for this Canadian evangelist. And that’s when I met her. And so she we got married and we actually got married in Canada right near Niagara falls and, and St. Catherine’s. And now my wife is Canadian. Both of our kids are Canadian and I’m American, but my kids say it’s okay, dad. No, one’s perfect.
Filipe Drumond (12:48):
<Laugh> Daniel. I’m so excited about, about what you’re doing about your family and also the heart that you have for Canada, for the nation. Not only that, I mean, but you also understand culture. And for me, living in Canada as a Canadian resilient Canadian meeting you in, in these evangelistic events, or as to a, from one evangelist to another evangelist, it brings me so much comfort that I don’t have to explain you too much. You get it, you understand the culture. And I think this is one of the great assets that you give is because again, for those who are for, for perhaps in the us who want to do ministry in Canada, you would know how to navigate those waters. So I thank God for your experience in your life.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (13:30):
Let’s just take a moment right now to, to pray for the nation of Canada and pray that that God would do something new and, and that there would be revival in Canada. Would, would you lead us in prayer?
Filipe Drumond (13:41):
Absolutely. you know, just as we’re, we’re thinking we’re we’re, as you you’re mentioning prayer, it takes me to the book of Ezekiel, where the Lord said, you know, I’ve looked for a man who would stand in the gap before me on behalf of the people. So I pray that this podcast would reach the minds and hearts of people who are listening, that they would feel a call to Canada, your father. We thank you so much for the power of the gospel, for your presence in your, in our lives and father that even though we are made of clay, but yet there is so much power in the gospel and you are present, and the harvest is ripe Lord, that you would open our eyes, that you would give us more faith or father, and that we would come together with greater expectation to work together, but make the use of all opportunities.
Filipe Drumond (14:30):
We can to proclaim the gospel, to announce the good news of Jesus Christ father. I pray for the nation of Canada and for the churches and pastors and the churchgoers Christians in Canada, father, that you would bring revival. We historically, we have never had a nationwide nationwide revival. So father, I pray that you would bring revival father. I pray for this young generation who is longing for you, who is longing for purpose and father. I pray in the name of Jesus that you would give us such a breakthrough in the nation of Canada and father that we would have once again, a fire, a passion to reach our own and to reach the globe with the good news of Jesus Christ father. Our desire is that the name of Jesus would be lifted up that you would receive all the glory and honor, and father, for those who are listening right now, that you would stir up their hearts for the nation of Canada, that they would be moved to pray for Canada, to know more about Canada, to visit Canada, and to find ways to collaborate, cooperate, invest in the proclamation of the gospel in that nation father.
Filipe Drumond (15:42):
We pray, and we are thankful in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (15:47):
Amen. I say yes. And amen to that prayer. Powerful. Well, Philip Felipe Philip, the evangelist in the Bible was the only one in the whole Bible who specifically called an evangelist. So Felipe is a great name for an evangelist, Philip, the evangelist. If someone wants to invite you to come speak at their church in Canada, or they want to support your ministry, or, or maybe from another country, they wanna invite you to come and, and, and minister, how can they find out more information about you? Well,
Filipe Drumond (16:19):
Perhaps one of the ways is through social media. My name Felipe F I L I P E my last name Drummond, D R U M O N D. On Instagram, Felipe underscore Drummond. And you’ll find me on Facebook, but again, you can go to our website last harvest dot CA or contact evangelist, Daniel, and he will direct you.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (16:45):
Awesome. Well, Philly, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast. I love what you’re doing and I, I love your heart for, for Canada and for the rest of the world. God
Filipe Drumond (16:55):
Bless you. Thank you. God bless you and all your listeners. And I hope to be back again sometime soon.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (17:01):
We’ll hang out in Canada, one of these days, so,
Filipe Drumond (17:03):
Oh, let’s do that. You’ll be wonderful in Edmonton or in Calgary.
Daniel King – Evangelism Coach (17:07):
Bless you. Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus. And I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the evangelism podcast on apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with king ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more, but please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (18:27):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast with Evangelist Daniel King on iTunes, Amazon, and your favorite podcast platform.
Travis Holownia | A Resurgence of God in Canada
Travis Holownia is the leader of Resurgence, a powerful ministry that is impacting Canada and nations around the world. On today’s podcast you are going to hear his heart for bringing revival to the nation of Canada.
Connect with Resurgence Today: https://liveresurgence.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Travis Holownia is the leader of Resurgence, a powerful ministry that is impacting Canada and nations around the world. On today’s podcast, you are going to hear about his heart for bringing revival to the nation of Canada. J
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:23):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their power, powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:52):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest, Travis Holownia, my good friend from the Edmonton Canada area. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Travis Holownia (01:07):
Yeah. Good to be here, Daniel, appreciate getting to know you the last few years and excited to just be with you all today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:13):
So let’s talk about Canada. What is God doing in the nation of Canada right now?
Travis Holownia (01:19):
God is moving, you know I think like so many nations, this has not been an easy time. There’s been lockdowns and lots of this unity. I think, you know, we were seeing such unity and the enemy has used COVID to bring this unity, but I, I think God is at work. He is moving. There is redemption happening. People are finding G Jesus submits this, and I think it’s a reshuffling of priorities. And I believe that Canada will be saved that there is a great mission field. And it’s from the far north to the Arctic, from east to the west, to the south. And I’m excited what God is doing. It’s easy to look at what God, the tough stuff. I think we can all look at the tough stuff, but there’s also some really good stories that would go is doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:04):
So the name of your ministry is resurgence. Yeah. Tell me what is resurgence and how did you get started doing this?
Travis Holownia (02:13):
Yeah, so, you know, God just birthed this. The name means a rising again, renewal restoration revival that rising and, you know, in 2008 I was stirred. I was back up a little bit. I was an engineer working for an oil company and I, and I felt God’s voice. I didn’t know if it was God, if it was the pizza eight the night before, if it was the devil, you know, sometimes it’s hard to know what God’s voice sounds like. And I felt his voice saying to quit my job and go full-time in ministry. And so I did that handed in the company, truck, handed that all in, I, I went and served. They say, you know, when you don’t know what God’s doing, go serve someone else’s dream. And so I served a guy’s dream to do the largest youth conference in our nation.
Travis Holownia (02:53):
16,000 kids a year were gathering. I think a YC did that for eight years. We did them internationally. And during that season, God birthed this idea. I was reading books, a revival books of how Charles Price came to my city in 1923. And people were so hungry for God that they would break the window just to get in. And I thought, man, that’s not my city, young adults are leaving the church. The churches are, are dying. People are falling away from God. My friends aren’t having an encounter with holy spirit. They’re, they’re going to church, but they’re not really connecting with that personal encounter. And so I said, what, what could we do something? And I felt, God birthed this name, resurgence never heard of it before. It was just this. Like, what do we call it? And this worder I’m like, what does that mean?
Travis Holownia (03:36):
I had to look it up. And so we gathered, we had three nights of meetings and we said, expect miracles, experience revival expect freedom. And people came, this lady came, she got healed. Leukemia people came. And we, so we did three nights. Again, we weren’t starting a ministry. We were just, it was like a side thing. It was like, Hey, what can we do? Because I believe God wants to move. And we rented this theater. And we did that. And then we start moving it from church to church. And that’s where we saw such momentum and unity with so many denominations Baptist Alliance, Anglican, all these even non charismatic Pentecostal denominations saying, Hey, we’re hungry for more. We want to have an authentic counter. And from that, we started to raise up people to reach souls reach people for Jesus, to, to release leaders.
Travis Holownia (04:22):
And how do we revive the church? We’re not a church. So how do we raise the water level up of many churches to see more people win one for Jesus. And so that’s, that’s the heart of it. And you know, my story actually started years ago and, and I, and I speak to evangelists that are listening today. You never know the, the seeds plant and in 1930, my grandparents immigrated to Canada from Poland. They were new of God, but they didn’t have a personal relationship. They ended up in a small town in Alberta, in Canada, they were farming. They had to pick all the rocks off the land and clear the trees and then they would get the land for free and so hard working sick kids. My grandmother got really ill at age of 40 was sent on a train to Edmonton, was going to die.
Travis Holownia (05:07):
The priest was called for the last rights and said that, you know, it’s over. And my grandfather was outside one day and a neighbor said, you know, there’s an evangelist at the Pentecostal church and he’s praying for people. You should go. My grandfather goes, well, my, my wife can’t go too sick. Well, you go. So he went and the guy prayed for my grandmother. And when he got home, my grandmother was sitting up in her bed, brushing her daughter’s hair, completely healed. And that’s at 40 years old, she lived till she was 97 and died of old age, not of any sickness and because of that, the whole family came to Jesus. And so that’s why I’m here today. Cuz an evangelist came to a small town and that’s why I do what I do because you know, there’s people that have not heard the name of Jesus that need a miracle that need a touch like, like my grandmother that can impact generations.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:55):
Let’s talk about the future. What is your vision for revival in the nation of Canada? I, my wife, Jessica is from Canada. She lived in Morville small city, right outside of Edmonton. And so every summer we go up to Canada and I preach in different church is across Canada. And, and I know there’s so many believers in Canada that are crying out to God for revival that are, that have a hunger and a desire to, to see more of God. And, and when you watch the news, you, you say, yes God is needed in the nation of Canada. What, what do you think will happen in the future? What does God want to do? Bringing revival to Canada?
Travis Holownia (06:39):
I do think unity is key. I think when we have unity, God will give us survival. I think there’s a key of us working together. I think denominational borders and lines and all of that as we’re being in one church is coming together in an incredible way. I believe prayer is rising in our nation in this season of hard. It, that there is such a prayer movement. And I also believe that Canada has such a call. There’s been so many prophetic words that Canada will be healing leaves to the nations. There’s a call for the nations. And I feel like if, if I, as a leader, I, as an evangelist, just have the vision of Canada, I might miss the global impact. And the more I pray for the more I find stirred for the nations, it’s, it’s this interesting thing. And I, and I fight it going well. I need to, you know, Canada will be saved and, and I believe that, but I also believe there’s such a call for Canada to raise up evangelists and people to bring healing to nations. And so I believe that’s part of our future
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:35):
In Canada has a, a rich heritage of having an impact on the nations. As I travel around the world, I, I meet many Canadian missionaries that are, have given their lives for the sake of the gospel. Just last week, you and I both had the opportunity to participate in the launch of the global evangelist Alliance. And so I was in a studio in Orlando, Florida when Nathan Morris and you were in a stadium over in Amsterdam with the team over there. Yeah. And together we launched this worldwide vision for the, the global evangelist Alliance under the ministry of Empowered21. Yeah. Led by Billy Wilson, the, the president of, Oral Roberts University. And really the, the purpose of this organization is to call evangelists together and to raise up a new generation of evangelists. In the past you had great evangelists like, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, TL, Osborn, Reinhard Bonnke and they saw God do tremendous things. But now we’re saying this is a new era of evangelism, a new time where, where God wants to, to raise up the, the evangelistic gift in the church. Do, do you see evangelists and people with a heart for evangelism being raised up in Canada? Yeah.
Travis Holownia (08:58):
I believe that I believe that’s our, you know, there’s so many different movements and things that are, that are stirring to go, how do we raise the harvesters up because there’s gonna be a harvest. And I see churches that are shifting their focus from themselves to their community in a, an incredible away where we’ve seen decline in churches. We’ve seen a revitalization of churches that are going, Hey, we’ve been 80 years here and we’re not reaching anyone. And and so I believe it’s, you know, God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and a friend of mine said it this way. You know, he’s not saying he’s the God of three people. He’s the God of legacy. He’s the God of generation,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:35):
The generational God from, from one generation to the next generation.
Travis Holownia (09:38):
And so how do we raise up? And, and, you know, it’s been an honor to serve on that together with you and what God’s doing. But my heart for is how do we release leaders? Like if our ministries, if Daniel Kingman for surgeons, if it’s just about us at the end of the day, our impact will be short. But if we can raise a generat, our ability to raise up sons and daughters that are gonna reach a generation and I’ll never reach, you’ll never reach in places. And, and that will never even thought were possible. Then I think that’s what God’s called us to do. And so that’s why I put my time in. I know that’s why you put your heart into it because Hey, there’s resources out there. There’s the school that we’ve put out on, on video and all that, because why, because we care about another generation because we can’t reach the harvest of ourselves.
Travis Holownia (10:24):
There’s too many people by 2033 is the vision that everyone had had authentic counter with Jesus. That’s pretty impossible for my ministry. I know that’s impossible for you, but if we have thousands of people that say yes to it, and, and so I think it’s bringing people and saying, Hey, God has a call for you finding those people, calling them forth. And so I want to invest my time. I flew to Amsterdam to be part of you flew to Orlando. Why? Because yeah, we can reach a few, but we need a lot more people to be reaching a few
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:52):
And together we can accomplish something much greater than if we work separate. Totally. I think this is a time where, where God is calling ministries to partner together to work together. Because often if you’re off alone all by yourself you, you get lonely. Yeah. And, and it’s very difficult to have really significant impact. Yeah. But by working together, I think we really can impact the entire world in our generation. Yeah. And, and often God gives ministers like a, a life message or, or a something that, that most burns on their heart that they keep returning to over and over again in your life. What is the message that God has put in your heart that you, you find yourself preaching over and over again?
Travis Holownia (11:40):
I think there’s two. I think there’s a rising again, that idea that God has called. There’s an anointing to rise in everything he’s called us to do to fulfill that purpose. Not by might not by power, but by the spirit of God, but also to do it with knowing our identity. When I know who’s, I am, I can understand who I am. And I think as an evangelist, those, those listening, watching I think it’s so important to have that heart posture, cuz it’s so easy to strive and try to perform. And our identity become what we do, not who we are and we’re human beings, not human doings. And it’s something so key. And sometimes we’re like, we gotta conquer the world. Well, he’s got the whole world in his hands. We believe that he’s gonna build the church, our job’s to go and be good pointers to him, but I can’t save someone.
Travis Holownia (12:25):
I can’t heal someone. I can’t deliver someone he can. And my job’s to point really well. And, but I also have to know that I’m a son that I’m loved. Doesn’t matter if I’ve reached one or I’ve reached the millions. I’m still, it’s still the same place I am with him. And I think that’s so key in what we do because like you said, it can be lonely. And I think that’s why GE that’s why empower 21. That’s why any group that we’re part of is so important to run together and, and be together and be vulnerable with people like can actually call you on things and say, Hey, who’s in your life. And so if you’re an evangelist, you’re watching find, find some people to run with, find some people that can speak in your life, find some people that can actually call you on the stuff that you’re doing. Right. And the stuff that you need to maybe not do right. To do
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:09):
That. If someone wants to invite you to come minister at their church or, or they wanna find out more about out resurgence. Yeah. What’s your website. How can they find you?
Travis Holownia (13:17):
Live resurgence, L I V E R E S U R G E M C e.com. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:23):
I’d encourage you to, to reach out to, to Travis and, and, and hear his heart for the nations. Let’s finish by praying for the nation of Canada. You know I’ve been praying for Canada. My, my wife is Canadian. Both of my kids have Canadian passports, I’m American. And so I feel a little bit left out, but still we are praying for Canada and, and we actually have a ministry in Canada, king ministries, Canada. And because of that, we, we are asking God to, to send revival the churches in, in Canada in that many places that, where the church has gotten weak or, or, or died down, that they would see flames of revival. Yeah. So let’s just pray for God to impact the nation of Canada and to, to raise up a new generation of young people to have an impact. Would, would you lead us in a prayer? Yeah.
Travis Holownia (14:15):
You know, we one of the verses that Canada has founded on is Psalm 72. Well, he shall have dominion from sea to sea, to the rivers, to the ends of the earth. And as you said that, I just think of that. That’s what I’m gonna pray that he shall have dominion. And so God, we thank you today for this opportunity. God, we thank you for the nation of Canada. And we declare today, we decree today, God, a move over your spirit in the nation, from the rivers to the ends of the earth, God, from east to the west, from the south to the north, that you would have dominion as our nation was founded on the word of God, God, we call it back to its vision, without vision, the people perish. And I call my nation back to its vision, that it should have dominion, that he shall have dominion.
Travis Holownia (14:56):
And I thank you for that verse without vision that people parish it’s written on our parliament buildings. I thank you for a shift today in our nation, whether it seems dark and bleak and impossible. I thank you. We serve a God that all things are possible, not by my, not by power, but by the spirit. And we declare a rising again of your spirit in the nation of Canada. I thank you for the ministries, the churches, and we just speak. Lord, would you increase the work? Would you increase the harvester harvesters? Would you, would you call forth more missionaries and more evangelists in our nation? I thank you for what you’re doing worldwide. I thank you for those. Listen and watching today, wherever they are. I pray that you would bless them, that you would equip them, that your holy spirit would come and fall on everyone listening to this podcast today, I pray healing in hearts, healing in bodies, and I pray such a fresh passion for evangelism to arise in every single person in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you such an honor to be with you. Daniel Love what you’re doing. You’re doing keep doing what you’re doing. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and we could not preach the gospel without your help. Over our years of ministry, we found that we’re able to reach one person for Jesus for every dollar that people give us. And so that means that if you would give us $1, we could start a party in heaven. In fact, I’m asking people to join our partnership program and give at least $1 every single month to help us to lead more people to Jesus. This is the greatest investment of your dollar that you can make. It’s the only investment that’s gonna matter 10,000 years from now. So if you would like to help us lead people to Jesus, please visit king ministries.com K I N G king ministries.com and help us lead People to Jesus today. God bless you
Speaker 2 (16:58):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.