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Discipleship

John Wentz | Alpha Groups Impact the World

John Wentz leads Alpha USA. Alpha is in over 150 countries and in the past thirty years about 35 million people have participated in Alpha groups. Last year over two million people went through their program. Alpha works in a prison cell, a refugee camp, a bar, a school, a neighborhood home, or a church. The secret to their evangelism success is asking questions and caring for people. On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast you will hear some amazing testimonies about what God has done through Alpha.

Learn more about Alpha: https://alphausa.org/

Alpha is a global ministry that has reached over 35 million people in 150 countries over the past 30 years. The program creates a safe, non-judgmental space for people to explore the Christian faith through meals, short talks, and open discussion. Alpha has been effective at reaching people outside the church by genuinely listening to their questions and struggles. Testimonies show how the welcoming community and focus on relationship rather than doctrinal correction can lead to life-transforming encounters with Jesus, even among the most resistant participants. Alpha’s approach of empowering ordinary believers to invite friends and create this kind of environment has enabled its rapid global expansion and lasting impact.

Questions we talk about:

  • What is Alpha?
  • What are some of the hard questions that people talk about in Alpha groups?
  • What are some testimonies of how people are being reached through Alpha and perhaps you could share some statistics about the impact Alpha is having?
  • What is your testimony? How did you come to know the Lord? How did you get involved with Alpha?
  • Describe the philosophy behind how Alpha functions.  How did Nicky Gumbel change Alpha from a course for new believers into a course for people outside the church?
  • What is it about our culture today that makes Alpha’s approach so effective?
  • If someone wants to start an Alpha group or support your ministry, what would be the best way for them to get connected with you?

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
John Wentz leads Alpha USA Alpha is in over 150 countries. And in the past 30 years, about 35 million people have participated in alpha groups. Last year, over 2 million people went through their program. Alpha works in a prison cell of refugee camp, a bar, a school, a neighborhood home, or in a church. The secret to their evangelism success is asking questions in genuinely caring for people. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, you’ll hear some amazing testimonies about what God has done through alpha.

Evangelism Podcast Host (01:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:22):
Daniel King. Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus the day I have a very special guest with me, John Wentz from Alpha. Thank you so much for joining me today.

John Wentz (01:38):
Happy to be here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:40):
Hey, it is so wonderful to get to spend some time with you. Alpha is having an amazing impact around the world. Could you tell us a little bit about Alpha and what God has called the ministry to do?

John Wentz (01:55):
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having this podcast too, because I think it’s so important that people feel like they are equipped to share the good news about Jesus. He makes all the difference in the world. Alpha started in London 30 years ago in the heart of London at a small Anglican church. And at the time the church was really struggling and they had a beginner’s course for just how to explore Christianity. And a few people came, they had another course that was called Agnostics Anonymous or something like that. And even fewer people came to that. And at the Alpha, a guy named Nikki Gumbel took over. And the first time that he did it, there was, they had a meal, there would be some short talk on some element of Christianity. And he sat in a small group and noticed that almost all the people in that small group that were invited to come had really no background with faith at all.

(03:00):
And so they just asked some questions, they listened, they were fascinated. And because they were listened to and fed well, I think they came back, they said, this is great. We’ve never had a chance to talk about spirituality before. And almost every single person in that group came to faith. And Nikki had this realization that maybe there was a way to do this Alpha Basics course, repost it and aim it towards people outside the church. And so they began just inviting people from the community to come and have a meal, hear a short talk, and then it was open discussion and anything was fair game and they wouldn’t be corrected, they wouldn’t be judged, they’d just be listened to. And that grew and it exploded. And all over London, the Church of England began running this. People started coming to Faith, and then it went global.

(04:00):
And in the mid nineties, early to mid nineties, alpha began to spread all over the world. It just caught, and I think so many people saw it as a way to equip ordinary people who maybe don’t have a gift of evangelism and give them a simple way to invite their friends to dinner and create a safe place for them to explore faith. That now has spread to where we see alpha in over 150 countries. We estimate about 35 million people have gone through Alpha. And just in this past year and 2024, we had about 2 million people over 2 million people go through Alpha globally. And so it’s something that works in every context all over the globe, from a prison cell to a refugee camp, to a bar, a school, a neighborhood home, a church, wherever it may be. So that’s a brief snapshot of what Alf is.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:03):
That’s absolutely amazing what tremendous fruit God has given you. And I think one of the secrets to the success of Alpha are the questions that people come and ask. What are some samples of some of the hard questions that people are asking these days?

John Wentz (05:24):
Yeah. Well, two nights ago I was in Alpha on the first week of Alpha. So Alpha goes over multiple weeks. And the first week we posed the question, if it turned out there was a God and you could ask anything, what would you ask? And it’s always amazing to hear what people ask. Some people come with really intellectual head focused questions, mind oriented, they want to make sense of certain things and what’s our transition to the afterlife going to be like? And then there’s these heart level questions that you can’t explain for people. I remember this one guy right across the group from me. He’s like, I want to know why God took my 18-year-old cousin who was perfectly healthy and nothing wrong with him. Why did he have to die when he did? He was my closest friend, and he’s tapping into this place of grief and there are deep whole life heart level questions that people bring to these groups.

(06:29):
Another person had had 10 miscarriages and she wanted to know why. Another person was a police officer in that group the other night, and he served for 25 years. He said, I’ve seen the most evil things you can imagine. He’s like, I don’t even know if I have questions. I’m just angry that God would allow stuff like that to happen. Why doesn’t he step in and stop it? And people in this group feel so comfortable on week one, we had a meal, they heard this talk, and then they’re just opening up and really sharing. To me, it’s not the intellectual questions about theology. Those tend to come from Christians. It’s the heart level questions, the real life lived experiences from people that are wanting to know how in the world does faith intersect what I’m going through? Those are the toughest questions. And that’s where an approach like Alpha says, look, you just come back next week. Let’s eat together. I want to hear more. And we go on the journey with them. And in the process we pray like crazy behind the scenes. And God, through his spirit is able to open up their heart. And as he’s able to open up their heart, he moves in and does incredible things and people come to faith left and right when they feel loved and heard and seen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:53):
Those are not easy questions to talk about. What did you say to these people that begin to open up and share these very deep, painful questions that they have?

John Wentz (08:06):
Well, I think the first thing is they just need to be validated. Their question is as important. I mean, everybody carries a question. Everybody carries things that we wonder about. And it’s a really vulnerable thing to reveal what that is. And so when somebody is brave enough to be vulnerable and share something that is on their heart that most people never see, I think you just have to encourage them and say, you have to respond in an emotionally appropriate way. So if somebody is like, I want to know why God took my cousin, you’re not like, okay, great, let’s go on to the next person. You have to feel it. You have to absorb that. You have to sit in that grief for a moment. And on Alpha, we don’t give answers. So we’re off the hook for having to answer their question. They don’t need my answer to their question.

(09:08):
What they need is space to find their answer to their question. And when we can love them and create that safe place, maybe they hear some other people’s perspectives and experiences. It’s like a baby learning to crawl, and then they pull themselves up and then they start to take a few steps on their own and they’re encouraged. Once they’re given space and encouragement to do that, then they’ll walk. And so I think that’s the most important thing is just to hear their question, honor it and say, what do you think? Let’s process that together and help give them the handrails to find their own answers. And what you’re doing is strengthening their ability to walk spiritually. They don’t know that’s happening, but if you do the work for them, they’re never going to learn to walk. And they may never take it anyway, because what they want is they want to walk, they want to know how this works.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:05):
I think often there’s temptation to want to give people the correct answer, but someone said that people don’t care how much until they know how much you care. And so just by listening to people, you show that you care for them, and that has a tremendous impact on their lives. And so you’ve had millions of people go through the course. What are some testimonies of lives that have been impacted?

John Wentz (10:33):
Yeah. Well, I think of the very first course I was on. She’s now a friend of mine, her name’s Victoria. And I remember she was very hesitant to even come to church. She met her husband on a dating website and they fell in love with each other. They got married and she found out her now husband was a Christian and wanted to go to church. And so she’s like, well, I don’t want to be a bad wife, so I’ll at least come along on Sunday mornings. She would hang out in the lobby, didn’t want to have anything to do with the church service. So I struck up a conversation with her and I was like, well, let’s grab lunch after church, you and Marco, I’d love to hear your story. So we went out to lunch and she began to share all the pain full experiences that she’d had with church growing up, just a few experiences, but really deeply marked her.

(11:26):
And I said, well, we’re doing this thing called Alpha where people can explore faith, share their perspectives. You would be really fun to have in a group because you’ve got great experience to share and just really unique perspectives. And she’s like, no thanks. And I was like, all right, well cool. You ever interested? Lemme know. Well, I saw later that night, she had signed up. I got an email notification and I was like, okay, sweet. So Victoria comes week one, and we do a meal from six 30 to 7, 6 30 rolls around. I’m looking down the hallway. She coming? Nope, she’s not there. 6 45, no show. Seven o’clock we’re wrapping up all the food. And she walks in and people are like, oh, you want some food? And she’s like, no, no, no. And she just stands in the back of the room. So we turn on the video, we do all the opening comments, turn on the video.

(12:18):
She just stands back there. And then we usually take a small little break for some dessert before we move into the discussion groups. She doesn’t want to have any of it. But then finally we get into a small group, she comes over, I was like, Hey, it’s great to see you. And she’s like, thanks. And she’s not friendly. She’s clearly agitated, super anxious, which can happen. I mean, it takes a lot of courage to show up to something like this. And anyway, we get through the groups, how and why did you come on Alpha? And she’s like, look, I think this is all BS just so you all know. And she’s like, I’m not eating the food. I know you guys are putting something in the food. You’re trying to brainwash everybody. And everyone’s like, wow, she’s a live wire. And anyway, she was semi offensive that first week and she came back week two and week two she was full on offensive and people were sharing the topic was Who is Jesus?

(13:17):
And people would share. And she was like, that’s stupid. And she was pretty offensive to some of the people in the group, and I had to talk to her afterwards. I’m like, Victoria, this is fine. I’m super excited you’re here, but you got to cool it and be nice to people. Share your perspective. Well, she came back week after week and she was so abrasive. And then we get to week seven, and at week seven there’s this day away experience where we get out of the ordinary routine and we have some time to just relax, play some games. There’s a couple sessions on who’s the Holy Spirit, how can I be filled with the Holy Spirit? There’s a chance to be prayed for actually in a very simple, low key way. And so we get to the end of this talk and it’s like, Hey, Victoria, would you like to be prayed for?

(14:07):
She’s like, Nope. And she just walked out of the room and we’re like, oh my goodness. She is a hard nut to crack. But I knew God was at work. She kept coming back every week. Well, then three hours later, literally she vanished. I thought she had left, didn’t know where she went. We were all playing a game in the little common area. And she opens the door and she starts coming in and just her presence, she was like Godzilla in the room. Everyone had been abused over the last several weeks by her. And she walks up to the group, we stopped playing a game and she’s like, look, I’ve been coming here for the last seven weeks and I every week have tried to make every single one of you not like me. And then all of a sudden, a tear rolled down her cheek.

(14:56):
And she said, but the truth is I don’t have anyone like you in my life, and every week you put up with me. And she started to cry a little bit more. She said, I need this and I need all of you. And then she just started to cry and we’re like, oh my gosh. She’s human, her heart. It has flesh to it. And there was another guy in the group who then Shely said, well, Victoria, can we pray for you now? And she said, yeah, I need Jesus. And we prayed for her, and the dam just broke. I mean, she just opened her heart, opened her life. And I have rarely ever seen a moment where someone physically changes in front of you, like her whole countenance. It was like just this rough exterior was stripped off and she was smiling and joyful and fun loving and just hung out.

(16:03):
And everyone was so relieved. And so she gave her life to Christ that day. And then the next week we prayed for her a bit more. She actually had shared that her and her husband Marco were trying to have kids and they were having some difficulty, and she just really wanted to have a child. And so we prayed for her and we get to the end of the course. I think we had four more weeks to go. So a month later at the end of the course, we were recapping the significance of Alpha. And she said, you guys are never going to believe this, but I’m pregnant. And everyone was like, what? We were all celebrating with her. And through those last four weeks, she was a totally different person. And I was like, Victoria, you got to come back and help us on the next alpha.

(16:53):
And she did. So a few months later, I think it was three, we got through the summer and then the fall came and we’re doing our training. And she came up to me, she said, John, you’re never going to believe this. She said, I’m pregnant with twins. And we’re like, whoa, double bonus. This is awesome. So she wound up coming on this next alpha. She brought a few friends who basically filled an entire small group, 12 people. She came back another alpha after that, she invited and she came to Alpha, came to Faith on Alpha, and then her ex-wife family started. Victoria, just started inviting all kinds of people. Then it was basically three years after that initial Alpha, she started in a group. She was just helping inviting people. Then she was hosting a group. Pretty soon, three years later, she was in charge of Alpha at our church.

(17:56):
And she wound up running Alpha for many years. Good, four or five years, three times a year. She helped so many people discover a relationship with Jesus. It was amazing. And I just go back to that moment where that first week she was so hardhearted and kind of semi offensive. People could have just been like, eh, move on. But we embraced her. We ate with her, we listened, and because of that, it was the sense of community that she needed. Jesus was able to show his love, and she wound up helping so many people was a part of a church plant. I mean, it was incredible story.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:39):
Wow. That is a great story. Actually, the story of how I met you is a cool story. I was at the Uzon Conference in South Korea with Desmond Henry and Greg Steer. They organized a group of evangelists, the real hardcore missionary evangelists that were there to go out witnessing on the street in South Korea around the conference center. So we were out there, and so Greg steer from, he’s got a great ministry, dare to share. We were in the park, and he looked over there and was like, Hey, look at that guy. He looks like he needs Jesus. Let’s go share. And we went over there and it was you and you’re out there preparing. I think you were doing a session that day, and so that was a cool way to meet you. But you’ve been involved in Alpha in Asia for quite a few years, and now God’s promoted you and you’ve taken over leading and serving worldwide. But tell me some about your testimony and what brought you to this place. How did you come to know Jesus and what’s been the process that’s brought you to where you are now?

John Wentz (19:50):
Oh, well, I definitely need Jesus. So maybe he led you to me in that perk for a reason.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:56):
Yeah. Greg was like, man, that’s one of the, look, I got him saved and now he’s leading this huge ministry.

John Wentz (20:03):
Wow. Quick turnaround. I

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:05):
Know it’s grapefruit.

John Wentz (20:07):
Well, my journey began, I grew up in the carnival in central Illinois. My family, we sold food funnel cakes in the carnival, and we traveled around week to week all summer long and did not have a faith background. We never went to church. And my senior year of high school, I was filling out a scholarship application for college, and there was a section for religious activities, and I had no religious activities. And I was wondering, what are we going to do? The closest thing I could ascribe to is Zen Buddhism, because I’d read a few books and meditated and fasted, but I’m like, there’s no zen temples. I lived, so there was a French foreign exchange student in my Spanish class who invited me to go on a Catholic retreat. And I was like, huh, a religious activity, this would be perfect. So I actually went on that Catholic retreat simply because I needed a religious activity to go to college.

(21:09):
They gave me a New Testament. I’d never heard any of the stories of Jesus. I couldn’t have told you five details about Jesus. And at this Catholic retreat center, they listened to me. There was a moment the first night was Confess your sins to a priest night. And I was like, no way. This is ridiculous and it’s brainwashing and I want to have nothing to do with it. So I was getting ready to leave this little chapel, and my small group leader stopped me in the lobby and tiny lobby, 10 by 10, I mean super small. And we sat down and he’s like, Hey, where are you going? And I was like, I think I’m leaving. This is a cult. I don’t want to have anything to do with it. It’s weird. And he’s like, and I just began to gush all these things that I didn’t like about this particular religious experience.

(22:01):
And he just asked me a question that changed the course of my life. He said, I’m just curious. What issues do you have with Jesus? And I was stumped. I had had loads of Christians tell me I was going to hell. And that ticked me off. I didn’t want to have anything to do with them. Nobody had ever asked me a question, and I didn’t know. He gave me space to think about it. He was patient. I very quickly realized I didn’t know Jesus. I didn’t know anything about him. And then he challenged me. He’s like, well, I just you to have an open heart, open mind. And at the end of that retreat, somebody was sharing from upfront and they said, yeah, I know there’s some people here who don’t believe in God, and I just hope that one day if God reveals himself to you, you’d have an open heart and an open mind.

(22:56):
And I looked out the window and central Illinois, there’s these just flat cornfields as far as the eye can see, and the sun was going down, and there was this beautiful sunset. And I remember thinking the light bulb went on. It was literally this epiphany moment where I thought, the thought in my mind was, how do I have the ability to recognize beauty? What is beauty and how is beauty universally recognized by all people? Nobody’s going to look at the sunset and say, oh, that’s ugly. So in my mind, I was like, there has to be a creator to hardwire this idea of beauty into us. And I turned to my small group leader and I said, I think I get it. There has to be a God. And he got all excited. I was like, no, I’m not saying he’s Jesus or anything so cool, but

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:49):
There’s got to be something out there.

John Wentz (23:53):
This created world is too good. There’s too much to it. It has to be created. It can’t just be chance. And they said, well, why don’t you come back on the next retreat we’re going to do? And I’m like, no, you don’t want me. I don’t even believe in this stuff. They’re like, no, come back. So in the preparation for that next retreat, you had to go weekly meetings and stuff, and they taught me how to pray. They shared a rosary with me, and they started reading my Bible, and it was this community that I could explore spiritually. Well, I got to the place where I wanted to go deeper. They had a sign on the wall that said, let go and let God. And I knew one girl who was a born again Christian who I’d met at a carnival. And we were writing letters back and forth to each other.

(24:42):
And I reached out to her and I said, Hey, I’ve been doing some spiritual exploration. I know you’re a Christian. Could you meet me at this park? We walk around, I want to know how to let go and let God. And she’s like, oh my gosh. So she met me at this park. We walked around and I said, yeah, I feel like I want to let go of something, but I don’t even know what it is inside of me. And she said, well, let’s figure it out. And I said, well, one day I hope I can. And she said, one day, why not today? And I said, because I don’t know what it is I would. And I changed the subject. And we kept walking through the park. Well, we got back to the lodge starved rock State Park, and she’s like, I’m going to go use the bathroom.

(25:28):
I said, cool. So she went into the bathroom and I’m sitting on a little bench outside the women’s bathroom, thinking to myself later today, I have to drive into Chicago for work. It’s about an hour drive. If I get in a car accident and I die, literally, this is the thought in my head. If I die, I’m going to be so ticked that I couldn’t figure out what I could let go of and let God, she comes out of the bathroom and I tell her, I’m like, Jackie, today’s the day I’ll do whatever it takes to figure out what I need to let go of. Well, I come to find out she was in the bathroom, not because she had to go to the bathroom. She went in there to pray for me, and she was praying for me when I had this spiritual awakening moment.

(26:14):
So we went to Hardee’s and got some peach cobbler, and she walked me through some verses in Romans, which made absolutely no sense to me. And I remember going home later that night, I bought a brand new Bible. I bought some candles. I lit the candles, and I read through Romans six, seven, and eight, she told me to do. And it was like staring at a wall. The words would bounce off me. It didn’t make any sense. And I just remember crying out to God saying, God, I don’t know what it inside of me that I need to let go of, but I want you to take it. And all I knew at that moment was I needed to feel really emotional, somehow feel guilty for all the things I’d done wrong. I didn’t feel anything. I just yelled at God, went to bed frustrated.

(26:59):
And the next morning I woke up and I went to my community college. And as I was driving there, I drove the speed limit. There was this sense of peace over me. And I came back later that night and I felt different. I called Jackie up and I said, Hey, I feel I can feel something. There’s this peace. And she said, well, you know what happened to you, don’t you? And I said, no, what? She said, you’ve been born again. And I was like, oh, no. I didn’t want to sign up for that. I just wanted to let go and let God. She said, well, welcome to the family. You’re a born in Christian now. And I looked back at that journey and that a year after that, God put on my heart to give my life to helping people come to know him. I was at a cornerstone music festival and talking with some people from YAM, they gave me a little book entitled One Way God’s Way.

(27:59):
And it talked about how people all over the world die with no opportunity to hear about Jesus. And that literally broke my heart. It felt like God was just pinning me down. I could feel the weight of him on my chest saying, you’re going to spend the rest of your life helping people come to know me. And I gave him six weeks to convince me, prayed every hour I bought an Iron Man watch that would beep every hour to remind me to pray. And he made it so clear that this is what my life needed to be oriented around. And then the story. So I went to college, seminary, got a degree in evangelism and church planting and church history, and did campus ministry finally found my way to Alpha in 2015. And it’s been an incredible ride ever since. And now I’ve seen God’s faithfulness to that call that he put on my life to help people all over the world have the opportunity to explore and discover a relationship with Jesus.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:01):
I think the little known witnessing tip there is you got to have candles. If you light the candles while you read Romans, it gives you that extra little bit of peace.

John Wentz (29:14):
I don’t know what happened, man. Nothing seemed to happen that night,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:18):
But maybe. So. What is it about our culture today that makes Alpha’s approach so effective at reaching people?

John Wentz (29:28):
Well, I mean, you said it earlier, people don’t care what you know until they know how much you care. I really do feel that our culture, and we’ve done studies with Barna and others globally, that all the data comes back. Young people, old people, what they want. They do want to explore spiritual things, but they want to do so in a way that doesn’t put them in a corner. They don’t want to be cornered. They don’t want to be judged. They want to be loved. They want to be heard. They want to be seen. And that requires that we take a posture of listening, and it means, I think culture. Think about the pandemic globally. Everyone went through this collective trauma and was so isolated, and there was a sense of an epidemic of loneliness. The rise of TikTok comes about because young people are longing to be seen, right?

(30:36):
And they want to be expressive. And that’s nothing new. I mean, young people have wanted to do that for years, but the cultural shift has taken place where if we could just listen to people, I think we had a real opportunity coming out of the pandemic for churches to really shift our posture, to embrace people, to listen to people still sharing the good news, never, never, ever letting go of that. But it’s the good news in a good way, in a way that feels good to the person who’s exploring. So it’s less about sharing our faith with others. It’s more about how can we create the space for them to come and explore. So it puts the ball in their court, it empowers them, it gives them a sense of agency, as some people would say, and they’re in the driver’s seat. Of course, we can help.

(31:34):
We become guides. We become helpful. And I think what our culture is looking for, I mean, they’re so hungry. I talk to people almost every day. They are open to having spiritual conversations if you’ll listen to them. But if it’s all about you, it’s a very self-centered approach. It can feel very self-centered. And people have grown increasingly intolerant of selfish. They can smell that there’s an agenda they can smell. You’re trying to pin them down or get them in a corner. But if you’re really there to serve them, to love them, to listen to them, they’ll open right up. And I think there’s just a wave of genuineness that is sweeping across culture, and that’s what all the data shows. They’re happy to go on a spiritual journey. The Gen Z labeled the open generation, they’ll totally have the conversation if they feel like you’re willing to listen to them. And that’s where I think, man, what we’re doing on Alpha is perfectly designed to meet people right in that.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:39):
That’s awesome. Well, if someone’s listening and they’re interested in starting an Alpha group, what would be a good way for them to find out more information about what you do and get connected with you?

John Wentz (32:54):
Yeah. Well, alpha usa.org, if you’re in the United States, you can go to alpha.org if you’re international, and I know you’ve got a massive global audience, Daniel, but if you go to our website, alpha USA, we’ve got a whole team of specialists. We’ve got about 70 people on our team here in the US and a whole network of churches and coaches, hundreds of volunteers all over the country. And we serve about 8,000 churches across the country, all denominations. So it doesn’t matter what denominational background you are, if you call yourself a Christ follower, you want to share Jesus, we can help and our team can help you. We’ve got all of our resources for free. So you come to our website, sign up, people have seen the impact that Alpha has. They want to pay that forward and make that available to others. So all of our resources are available at no cost. All the training material is on there. And if you have any questions, just click on the little chat window on our website or reach out to one of our specialists and we will assist you. Our whole mission is to equip you in your mission to help people discover and develop a relationship with Jesus. So we’re happy to help.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:08):
Well, John, thank you so much for what you do. You’re having such a tremendous impact for the Kingdom of God listening to people, one conversation at a time, making a difference for Jesus Christ. So thank you and thank you for what Alpha is doing, and thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast today. I really appreciate it.

John Wentz (34:32):
Absolutely. God bless this podcast. And may we see a movement of people all over the world carrying the good news in a good way.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:41):
Amen. God bless you.

John Wentz (34:43):
Bless you.

Evangelism Podcast Host (34:44):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? In proof, God is real. Daniel King shows you, God is there and he cares for you. Plus, how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:47):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review By giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today, I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.

Evangelism Podcast Host (37:08):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.

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Lewis Alexander | Great Commandment Network

Lewis Alexander is an expert on discipleship with the Great Commandment Network. He has created a discipleship diagnosis. This tool breaks down the discipleship process into forty distinct outcomes that a Spirit-Empowered disciple needs. On today’s podcast we talk about how the evangelist can connect evangelism and discipleship.

The Great Commandment Network: https://www.greatcommandment.net/

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Louis Alexander from the Great Commandment Network. Thank you for being on the podcast with me. Yeah,

Lewis Alexander (00:14):
Absolutely. Daniel, thank you for inviting me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Now, you are a discipleship expert. Expert. let’s start, if you could just tell me what does the Great Commandment Network do?

Lewis Alexander (00:27):
Oh, well, we partner with churches and ministries, denominations around the, the great commandment, loving God and loving others, and then fulfilling the Great Commission, which we think the Great Commandments in the Great Commission where Jesus said, you know, make disciple makers and teach them to observe all that I’ve commanded you. And we think the great commandment is something that was the starting point, you know to love God. And perhaps even the starting point for evangelism is to love God, the heart soul minus strength, and then love our neighbors, or so

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Now sometimes great commission and great commandment have kind of been separated, but I think we really need to include both in, in what we’re thinking about. And, and then sometimes people separate evangelism and discipleship. Like you say you’re an evangelist and they say, well, what are you doing to really disciple people? But you know, every discipleship begins with evangelism. Absolutely. And so we really need both. We need good evangelism, but then we also need to take the people that respond to the gospel message and begin to raise them up Yes. In the things of the Lord. And you have actually done some really deep thinking on the discipleship process. You’re part of the, the e Empowered 21 Discipleship Commission. Yes. And over the last 12 years, you guys have been working to define spirit empowered discipleship and what that looks like. And kind of talk to me about the process and, and how you’ve been developing this.

Lewis Alexander (02:03):
Yeah, yeah. Daniel, thank you for those questions. You know, we started with the Ephesians for 11 and 12 that God gave some as apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the works of service, works of their ministry. And so we kind of started with the premise, Daniel, that saints serve. And so we we took that word serve and we looked at the Greek and Hebrew words throughout the scriptures. And there were a couple of Hebrew words that we drilled down on and the scripture verse in the Old Testament associated with them. And then several New Testament words. And we did a cluster analysis and they clustered around four dimensions that a disciple, cuz we wanted to explore, you know, what would a disciple look like if one showed up?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:54):
And so you’re trying to define Yeah. What good discipleship looks like. Yes. And, and, and how to help people grow. And so by clearly defining this, then you can measure different areas where maybe a church or ministry is being successful in discipling people and then other areas where they need to work on.

Lewis Alexander (03:14):
Yes. Because we were, we were thinking, our former perspectives on discipleship wasn’t really working. We weren’t making disciple makers, you know, who make disciples. And so, you know, a lot of the models, discipleship models were more of a rational behavioral methodology. And we found that not being effective, it wasn’t spirit empowered. So we ended up starting with a premise that these need to be relational. You know, the great commandment is very relational. Love God, love your neighbor. That’s, that’s very relational, that they could only be fulfilled. Part couldn’t only, could only be fulfilled through spirit empowerment. So there, there isn’t any of our outcomes in there of like a disciple memorize the scripture because you could be a lost person and memorize scripture <laugh>. Now we’re gonna imply that it’s memorizing scripture is, is necessary. But these outcomes, we wanted to make sure they were spirit empowered.

(04:17):
And and certainly as we, you know, as we do evangelism, you know, we want to be led by the spirit and empowered by the spirit cuz it’s, it’s a work of the spirit in which people come to Christ. So that was important to us. And so they clustered around these four areas of loving the Lord when we did this cluster analysis of the word for serve loving the Lord or serving the Lord, serving his word, ministering the word men, loving, serving and loving people, ministering to people and serving his mission.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:50):
Okay. So you have these four different areas, Uhhuh, <affirmative>, that you are evaluating. So you’ve got loving the Lord, living his Word, loving people, and living his mission. Yes. And under each one of these different categories, you have 10 outcomes Yes. Of what it would look like to be successful for someone to, to grow in those areas. Yeah. All right. So let’s start with the first one, loving the Lord. Yeah. What are some of the outcomes Yeah. That you’re looking for under loving the Lord?

Lewis Alexander (05:23):
So, for example, we, I’ll get, I’ll talk about L two, which we call loving the Lord and the kin, number two of learning to listen to and hear God. And certainly, you know, in evangelism, I want to be listening to the Lord. I mean, you know, just give you a couple of biblical antidotes, you know, of Jesus when he tells his disciples, we must needs go to Samaria. And Jesus didn’t, Jews didn’t do that. And that word must needs die in, in the Greek delta epsilon iot is means in, in, in the king, in the King James has translated must needs. We, we gotta go. I’m, I’m listening to him. I’m hearing my father and he’s saying, go, go through Samaria. And Jews didn’t do that. But so right off the bat, Jesus is challenging some of the assumptions of his disciples, and they’re going to Samaria and he’s hanging out by a well, as you would know Daniel.

(06:18):
And, and this woman comes. And so he’s waiting on a woman and listening, listening to the Lord waiting on a woman. And she comes and he has this conversation with her. And, you know, the John four passage. And I’m sure it was a shock to disciples because apparent, you know, rabbis don’t really talk to women, but apparently this one does. But listening to and hearing God, you know, and, and the Lord will will guide us. I mean, Jesus was walking through Jericho and, you know, he stops at a tree and looks up and it’s, it’s that kiss. And he welcomes him down. You know, the welcome Matt’s out and arms open. And but I think that came from any said again that use that same Greek word, we must needs go to your house. And so we think that Jesus is listening to and hearing God, and that that’s probably an important outcome that we would. All right. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
All that is under L two listening to and hearing God for direction in discernment. And so yes, you would want people to grow in that as they go through the disciple Yeah. And ship process. So some of the different categories that you would have are outcomes that you’re looking for under loving the Lord would be practicing Thanksgiving and all things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> experiencing God as he really is through deepened intimacy with him. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> rejoicing regularly in my identity as his beloved. And so you’ve got 10 outcomes there. Yes. And then the second area is living the word.

Lewis Alexander (07:43):
Yes.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:44):
What are some of the outcomes that you’re looking for under living the word?

Lewis Alexander (07:47):
Yeah. Let’s, so we, we kind of sometimes talk about I’ll put my glasses on here so I can read <laugh> you know, do the book. So I’ll just talk about w two for a minute there. Which is outcome number two under, under the word living the word, being in a living epistle, you know, so that we’re you know, people are reading our lives, Daniel. So hopefully they’re gonna be filling the vibe from me of this guy is a safe guy. You know, we’re if I’m sitting by you on a plane and, you know we’re having a conversation, you feel safe and you feel like you can trust me and we can have this conversation. And I’ve, I’ve led people to Christ on airplanes just by trying to, to have this vibe of being a living epistle, of wanting to know and care about them, you know, in, in my life.

(08:45):
And I remember can I share a little amdo story with you? So I was, I was on a plane from Charles de Gall Paris flying to Istanbul, and it’s about a four and a half hour flight. And I had done it, you know, several times. And so I know what I’m in for. You gotta sit there and you don’t know who’s gonna sit by you. And so having some of these human interest questions like, you know, tell me one of your your most celebratory days. And so I’m sitting by this guy named Moot Lou, and he’s he’s a Turkish businessman. He’d been selling forklifts in Paris. And you know, I know I’m, I’m sitting by him for four and a half hours, so I wanna show interest in his life, you know, try to bridge to the gospel somehow.

(09:31):
And so I’m just asking him, I said, Hey, you know what, tell me about your, you know, one of your most celebratory moments in your life. And so here again, this is a Muslim guy, he’s from Turkey, and I’m an American Christian, so we’re worlds apart, you know, <laugh> and in terms of worldview. But I ask him, tell me about a time of rejoicing. And he tells me about when he got engaged with his wife, and he, you know, where he met her. He met her in a supermarket. Wow. I mean, all of a sudden this kind of me too moment of man, you know, guys in, in, in the states tried to pick up chicks in the supermarket too, you know, <laugh>. And he got her phone number in the line, and and you know, they went out and they dated for a couple years, you know, he brought her back to that same checkout line and proposed marriage to her.

(10:22):
And so he spends 45 minutes telling me this story, and, you know and I’m, I’m showing interest. I’m giving them my contact, I’m listening, you know, I’m, I have a smile on my face. I’m, I’m rejoicing with him. You know, I’m doing the Bible verse of, you know, Romans 1215, I’m trying to make a human connection. And so I’m trying to be a living epistle of Romans 1215. And and after 45 minutes, he said, well, what do you do? I said, well, I teach people how to love each other. And he was <laugh>. He couldn’t believe he was, he was like, what? And so I was able to just kind of tell him about why I do that and the love that Christ has for me, and I’m the beloved of God. And he had, he, I, you know, he was coming from a, obviously a Muslim background and the Quran, and I told him Jesus stories. I spent, you know, probably a, an hour or so just telling him Jesus stories. And he was so intrigued. He had never heard about Jesus, even Washington, his disciples, feet, things like that. And I seated the gospel, he didn’t pray to receive Christ that day, but he got a heavy dose of, of gospel. And that came from trying to be a living epistle on the plane.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:37):
Wow. That’s a great story. I really like how you’ve broken these 40 discipleship goals down into different outcomes that you’re looking for. So how do you measure Yeah. If someone is growing in these areas? Yeah.

Lewis Alexander (11:54):
Yeah. Thanks for asking. Right now we have a self-assessment of a lacker scale of one to five, you know, where going from, you know, I strongly disagree to, I strongly agree. And you just sort of self-identify where you would score yourself. And

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:14):
And sometimes just asking the question makes people realize like, Hey, I, I could grow. I need to grow in this area. Yeah.

Lewis Alexander (12:21):
Yeah. And then, you know, once you can identify that you know, you, you’re growing your self-awareness of identifying, oh yeah, you know, I, I need to work at learning to and listen learning to listen to and hear God. And maybe I don’t, maybe I need to ask God more. You know, God lead me who, who, who today can I share my faith with? And lead me to opportunities and see, see if the Lord is prompting you. But the more we start, you know, bringing that top mind and I can start moving the needle, you know, from a maybe a, a two mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that I disagree, that I’m listening to and hearing God to, maybe I move it to a four that, you know, I’m, I’m agreeing, I’m, I’m, I’m more consciously aware of that in my life and I’m trying to do that more.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:10):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Absolutely. if someone is interested in finding out more about what you do or more about the Great Commandment Network, what is your website?

Lewis Alexander (13:23):
Yeah, it’s great commandment, great commandment.net, and you’ll find a bunch of resources on there.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
And, and tell me a little bit more about what the Great Commandment Network does. Okay.

Lewis Alexander (13:34):
Yeah. We are a resource training ministry, and we partner with denominations and movements around the Great com, great commandment, great commission. Yeah. and so we provide resources to address freedom adequacy motivation in fulfilling the Great commandment, great commission. You know, sometimes I may want to do that, but I may have freedom issues, I may have my own fears, I may have unresolved pain or sometimes it’s adequacy. And so we create these resources. We have a lot of online resources.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:13):
You have complete courses, courses that people can go through, Uhhuh, <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and, and learn about all this. And also how they can implement discipleship in their life and in their ministries. Yeah. Well, brother Lewis, thank you so much Yes. For being on the the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you

Lewis Alexander (14:29):
For asking

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:30):
Me. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Daniel.

 

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Why Are Both Evangelism and Discipleship Important?

Evangelism and discipleship are related but distinct concepts in Christianity. Evangelism refers to the act of sharing the Gospel message with others and inviting them to follow Jesus. It is focused on reaching out to people who do not yet know Jesus and helping them understand and respond to the Gospel.

Discipleship, on the other hand, refers to the process of helping believers grow in their faith and mature as followers of Jesus. Discipleship involves teaching believers about the Bible, helping them develop their relationship with God, and equipping them to serve and share their faith with others.

In other words, evangelism is focused on reaching out to those who do not yet know Jesus, while discipleship is focused on helping believers grow in their faith and become more like Jesus. 

Both evangelism and discipleship are important for the growth and health of the church, and they often go hand in hand. As believers share the Gospel with others, they can also help new believers grow in their faith through discipleship.

Who is Daniel King? 

Welcome to the ministry of Evangelist Daniel King – international evangelist and dedicated servant of Jesus Christ.

For over 20 years, Daniel has traveled the world sharing the message of Jesus and bringing hope and salvation to people from all walks of life. His passion for sharing the love of Christ is contagious, and his powerful and engaging presentations have inspired thousands to turn towards God and experience the transformative power of his love.

Whether he’s speaking to a large crowd at a conference or ministering to individuals one-on-one, Daniel’s message is always the same: that Jesus is the answer to the deepest needs of the human heart, and that through faith in him, anyone can experience true joy, purpose, and fulfillment.

If you’re looking for a powerful and inspiring evangelist to bring the message of Jesus to your community, look no further than Daniel King. Contact us today to book Daniel for your next event and be prepared to be inspired and transformed by the love and grace of Jesus Christ. Call us today: 877.431.4276 or visit https://kingministries.com.

What’s the Difference Between Evangelism and Discipleship?

Two words that are often used in Christianity are evangelism and discipleship. Some use these two words interchangeably, but they are actually two different things. Let’s take a look at what each of them is and how they are different.

What is Evangelism?

Evangelism is the act of spreading the Gospel. It is telling people about who Jesus is and giving them a chance to respond to the Gospel by speaking with them and communicating God’s love to them.

Evangelism tends to be the start of someone’s journey in their faith. Through evangelism, many will come to hear the Gospel, some even for the first time, and either believe and want to know more, or continue on their way.

Whether we realize it or not, all Christians have been evangelized in some way. Whether it was a friend who told you about Jesus and the Bible, or you heard it on the street, that still is evangelism. It is simply the spreading of the Gospel message.

What is Discipleship?

Discipleship takes evangelism a step further by taking someone who has been evangelized and now teaching them what it means to be a Christian.

The word ‘disciple’ means to be a follower or a student of some kind of philosophy or way of living. Think about the disciples in the Bible. They spent endless time with Jesus, learning from Him, hearing Him teach and adopting His ways in their own lives.

Another word for discipleship could even be mentoring. To disciple someone is to take them under your wing and live life with them, supporting them and building them up to be more mature in their faith.

Discipleship is, in fact, the great commission that all followers of Jesus were given when Jesus ascended into heaven:

“And Jesus came and said to them, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Discipleship was the final command that we were given by Jesus. It is to go and build people up in Christ to be strong believers and followers of Jesus, observing all that Jesus commanded us.

How Do Evangelism and Discipleship Relate to One Another?

You could say that discipleship starts with evangelism. If someone were to come to Christ and then begin to learn what it means to be a Christ-follower from someone else, they would first be evangelized to accept the Gospel, and then begin to be discipled.

The reason why this is important becomes clear when we look at most churches today. Many churches today have nailed what it looks like to evangelize and bring people the Gospel. They’re having events where they preach the Gospel and they’re getting out into the community to witness to people and share their faith with others. However, many are missing out on the discipleship part.

This would be the equivalent of getting someone excited and interested in flying a plane but never teaching them how to fly. When they get behind the controls and get off the ground, when the storms come and they enter a cloud, they’ll, unfortunately, crash and burn.

This is what happens when we evangelize but don’t disciple. We are giving people new life by spreading the Gospel and getting them excited about following Jesus, but we aren’t teaching them how to actually do so. Instead, what often happens is that churches move on to the next evangelism event without discipling and helping those who were evangelized at the previous event.

This often creates a lot of confusion and doubt in many new believers’ minds as to their decision. Some may think that they just had to initially believe and can now go back to living the same way they were living before. Others may have doubt about the validity of the Gospel since they aren’t being helped to understand what to do next. When it comes to evangelism and discipleship, you simply cannot have one without the other.

So, let us get out and share our faith, but let us also disciple those who are learning and build one another up to be mature believers in Christ. Then those disciples can go and evangelize and disciple others, building the Kingdom as it was always meant to happen.

ABOUT DANIEL KING

Evangelist Daniel King, D.Min is on a mission to lead people to Jesus. He has visited over seventy nations preaching good news and he has led over two million people in a salvation prayer. He is often called “The Evangelism Coach.” To support King Ministries in our quest for souls, click here!

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