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Pray for Manipur | Developing a Theology of Suffering

Since May of 2023, the Christians in the state of Manipur in the nation of India have experienced persecution. Churches have been burned down, people have been attacked, and the Federal government of India has turned a blind eye to the violence. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast I speak with Khamthianmang Thangsing (Mang) from Manipur about how the church should pray for our brothers and sisters in Manipur and we talk about developing a theology of suffering.

Key Points: 

  • In the state of Manipur, India, Christians have faced severe persecution since May 2023, with over 500 churches burned down and hundreds killed, tortured, or displaced.
  • The conflict is largely between the Christian hill tribes and the Hindu-majority Meitei people, with the federal government of India accused of not protecting the Christian minority.
  • The guest, Hmong from Manipur, describes the suffering of his family and the need for the global church to stand with the persecuted Christians of Manipur through prayer and solidarity.
  • He discusses developing a theology of suffering, emphasizing that suffering for the sake of Christ is good, as it allows one to draw closer to God and that the cross represents both the depths of human evil and the heights of God’s love and forgiveness.
  • The guest encourages praying for the victims, especially the children, and calls the global church to be intentional and consistent in prayer for Manipur.

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Danger on the Mission Field | Daniel King

On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast we hear stories about danger on the mission field. Evangelist Daniel King shares stories of the most dangerous situations he’s ever faced when preaching the Gospel. We read Psalms 91 and as you listen you will learn about God’s plan to protect you even when you are under attack.

Transcript: 

Jace Gustin (00:00):
On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, we hear stories about danger on the mission field. Evangelist Daniel King shares the most dangerous situations he has ever faced while preaching the gospel. We read Psalms 91, and as you listen, you’ll learn about God’s plan to protect you while under attack.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:30):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Jace Guston. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast

Jace Gustin (01:08):
And I’m glad to be here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:10):
Alright, so Jace, you have just started an internship with King Ministries and you have a great heart for missions. Where are a couple of the countries that you’ve been to so far?

Jace Gustin (01:23):
So I’ve really just been to Guatemala and Brazil.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:27):
And you had a great time in both those countries.

Jace Gustin (01:31):
Yes, we’ve seen a lot of people went over for Christ.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:34):
And so you have a heart to go to the mission field to tell lots of people about Jesus.

Jace Gustin (01:40):
Yes.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:40):
And we’ve been talking some about what God has put on your heart. Do you have any questions about the mission field?

Jace Gustin (01:50):
Yeah, so I wanted to ask just one big question and it’s that, what was the most dangerous trip you’ve ever been on?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:00):
The most dangerous thing that we’ve seen on the mission field? That’s a great question. Well, first of all, I don’t think we should be too worried about going to the mission field. In Psalms 91 11, it says that God gives his angels charge over you to keep you in all your ways. And one time there was a missionary who said that there are no closed doors just as long as you don’t care whether you come back. And that’s true, we can go anywhere because we know that if we were to die, we are going to go to heaven. And so we don’t worry that much about the danger. Of course, you don’t want to tempt God. And so we take proper precautions. And over the years we’ve seen a variety of dangerous situations, but God has always protected us. And when I think about danger in the mission field, I really like to remember the example of Reinhard Bonnke, the great missionary evangelist from Germany. And one time he was doing a crusade in the nation of Sudan. And at that time, Osama Bin Laden was living in Sudan. He was the same one who attacked America on nine 11 and knocked down the World Trade Center. And at that time he was in Sudan. And when he heard that this evangelist was coming to Sudan to preach the gospel in cartoon, he actually sent threats by email to the offices of Christ for all nations. And so everyone was wondering, do we shut shut down the big festival?

(03:58):
And his staff, they’re wondering what would happen being threatened by this terrorist. And this is what God said to Reinhard. God said, you are Satan’s prime target for destruction, but you are my prime target for protection. I like that.

(04:19):
And so even when Satan threatens to attack us, even when he tries to come against us, we can know that we are under the protection of God. He wants to take care of us. Alright, so dangerous situations on the mission field. My parents were missionaries in the country of Mexico. And so we grew up working in the streets of Juarez, Mexico right across from El Paso, Texas. And every single week we would go across the border from El Paso into Juarez and we would minister on the streets. And of course in Juarez there’s a lot of different drug wars. At one time, Juarez, Mexico was one of, it was the number one murder capital in the world. So more people were being murdered per a hundred thousand people in Juarez than any other city on earth. And so it was dangerous. And so one time as my father was preaching in a church up on a hill, I wanted to go out in front of the church and invite people to come in. And so I went down the hill and started talking to a group of teenagers that were there and one of the teenagers, he was part of this Mexican gang drug gang, and he was angry that we were there preaching about Jesus. And so he reached in his pants and pulled out a pistol

(06:01):
And pointed it right at my forehead and told me to never come back to the neighborhood. And I didn’t really know what to do. I was just a teenager at the time.

Jace Gustin (06:13):
Not

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:14):
Scary, it was a little scary. But what I did is I went and I handed him a flyer and said, you’re invited to come to the meeting. And then I turned around and went back up the hill. And in wars, Mexico, we always saw God do great results, but sometimes people threw stones at us. I remember one time my father was preaching in the dump area in wars. There was this dump that people would go and they would dig through the trash in order to find tin cans in order to recycle, to make money. And so they’d support their entire family just going through the trash. Well, we would go to the dump and we would preach. And one time we were there preaching, and again there was a group of teenagers and they picked up some stones and they started throwing them at my father.

(07:12):
One of them hit my father on the head and he started to bleed, but he just kept preaching. And so that was kind of the example that I followed. And we’ve had people throw stones at us in different countries. I was in Ethiopia one time and in Ethiopia it’s about 30% Muslim. And so we were in an area that had quite a few Muslims in it. And I remember I was going out, passing out flyers, inviting people to come to the festival and there were a group of teenagers that got in my face and they started yelling at me and one of them knew a little bit of English and he started just getting in my face, why you say three gods? Why you say three gods, which he’s referring to the Trinity. Christians believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, three unique beings together as one Godhead, three and one, one and three. That’s the way it has to be.

(08:19):
But Islam thinks that saying that there’s three gods is a blasphemy against the one true God, which Christians do believe in one God, but one God in three beings. And so they’re really mad at that. And I was quickly surrounded by a group of maybe 20 or 30 of these young Muslim boys and they were all yelling at me. And so I got out there just as quick as I could. Again, I invited them to come and many of them came. Then we were in Lalo, Chile, Ethiopia, and there was a Muslim mosque that was right next to the festival grounds. And so the imam of the mosque, he called people to come and pray five times every day. And his speaker was really loud and he turned it all the way up so that everyone could hear. But we were there for a crusade.

(09:19):
So our speaker was much louder than his speaker. And so as we drove by the mosque on Friday night, which is normally when people would go to the mosque, we noticed that out in front of the mosque, there were only 10 slippers there. So all of the people that would normally be at the mosque, we suspected they were probably at the festival with us. And so on Saturday night, they were really upset that we were there. So as we were driving past the mosque, somebody from inside threw a massive stone, probably about the size of a watermelon

(10:00):
And threw it over the fence and hit the side of our vehicle. And so it made a loud of bang when it hit and we’re like, what was that? And so we looked out and okay, well they were just throwing rocks at us. So we got stoned and we didn’t do anything, but we figured that the devil was mad that so many people were getting saved at the festival. By the way, we sometimes call what we do crusades in some countries it’s a crusade, but for Muslim nations we would call it a festival because of course the word crusade has a bad connotation for Muslims because during the Middle Ages, the people doing the crusades, they came and attacked Jerusalem, the Christians. And so we don’t call it a crusade, we call it a festival. Okay? So we’ve had, let’s see, one of the early events that we participated in was a crusade in Iquitos Peru.

(11:17):
Iquitos is in the jungle of Peru, right on the Amazon River. And so we actually rented a boat one day and went up the Amazon River and stopped at every village. As we passed by, we saw on the bank there was a little village. So we stopped, went and preached to the village and then went to the next village and preach. And so in Iquitos, when we first got there, they said that right now there’s a lot of unrest in the city. We said, well, why is there unrest? And it was the local teachers were rioting. And the reason they were rioting is because they hadn’t been paid in like a year. And so the government owed them lots of money and the government kept promising, oh, we’re going to pay you. We’re going to pay you next month. Don’t worry, we’re definitely even pay you next month.

(12:13):
But they never got the money. And so finally the teacher’s union shut down all the schools and they announced that they were going to hold riots. And so all of these teachers and all of their friends and their whole families, they were going through the city and we were scheduled to have the crusade right in the main plaza in Iquitos. And they warned us, they said, tonight is the big night where they’re planning to riot. And so they said, just be ready to shut down the crusade at any moment if people come. And so I was there preaching in the center plaza in Iquitos, and we heard reports that this riot was on the way and it was like 10 blocks away. And I said, well, is it bad? And I said, well, they’re taking sticks and breaking windows of the shops along the way.

(13:27):
Some of the people are starting fires. And I said, yeah, that’s pretty bad. And so I said, well, keep me informed if it comes close. And so then we got the report, okay, now they’re nine blocks away. Now they’re eight blocks away. And so as they’re coming down the street, all the shops were closing. They had garage door type things out in front of the shop. And so they pull the garage door down and so that their windows wouldn’t be busted. And someone came up behind me and they’re like, preach faster, preach faster. They’re only five blocks away now. And so I got as quick as I could to the altar call, and when they were four blocks away, I told the entire team, get on the bus and head back to the hotel. Just leave one car for me. And so we had a big crowd.

(14:16):
I gave the altar call and lots of people prayed with us for salvation. And I said, amen. And dismissed the crowd and our crowd left the plaza going this direction as the riot of teachers was coming in from the other direction. And so they stayed there all night long. They tore tires off some of the cars and set them on fire and had bonfires. And so we got all that on video. I told my cameraman, I said, go get some video of it. This is good video. We can show people what’s happening. But as the right is coming in one side of the plaza, we said, amen. People got saved and we left and no one was hurt in ketos Peru. Alright, so one of the scriptures that I really like to think about in times of difficulty is Psalms 91, which is a psalm that talks about how God will protect us. So Chase, why don’t you read through Psalms 91, and as you’re listening, I want you to think about how God has plans to protect us even in the most difficult situations. Alright, go ahead.

Jace Gustin (15:44):
Yes. So we have it here. I’m starting from verse one.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:48):
Yeah, it’s starting in verse one of Psalms 91.

Jace Gustin (15:50):
Alright, so it says, he who dwells in the shelter of the most high will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I’ll say of the Lord, he is my refuge and my fortress, my God, and who my trust. Surely he will save you from the Fowler’s snare and from the deadly pestilence, he will cover you with his feathers. And under his wings you’ll find refuge. His faithfulness will be your shield and your rampart. You’ll not fear and terror of the night, nor will the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:31):
Alright, let’s take a break there. I’m thinking of another story. So I was in Goma Congo, and that’s where I met my wife Jessica. So she was a festival director. She was actually helping to organize and set up festivals. And I was a young evangelist, and so God took me all the way over to Goma Congo, right on the board of Rwanda and Congo. And it was at that festival that I met Jessica, but the conditions were really difficult. Goma has an active volcano and it had erupted a few years before we were there. And so lava covered half the city. And as you’re walking through the city, you could see iron bars sticking up out of the ground of windows of the houses that used to be there. And so the lava had come, covered the houses, but the iron bars from the windows were sticking up out of the ground and the lava made everything super dirty.

(17:40):
By the end of the day, you would basically be completely black and you would go back to the hotel and take a shower and it would take maybe five or 10 minutes for the water to wash all of the dirt and the black lava dust off of you. And that part of Congo is very rough. There’s a lot of different groups that are rebelling against the government gorilla groups. And so as the sound truck was coming to that location, it passed through an area where there were gorilla groups that were in control. And so they tried to stop the truck, but we gave instructions just keep going. And so as they passed the truck, they took a shot at the truck and when it arrived, it had two bullet holes in the container of the truck and one of the local leaders who was helping to sponsor the event, he was a colonel in the army of Congo.

(18:57):
And so he says, don’t worry, don’t worry. He says, we will protect you. And I went and preached to this church. He was a colonel, but he also had a church. He was a pastor. And as I was preaching for him, I noticed that in front of his Bible, he had three cell phones, which it’s very poor there in Congo. So to just have one cell phone is a big deal. But he had three of them. And I said, why do you have three cell phones? He’s like, that’s my personal cell phone. He says, that’s the cell phone that the Army uses if they want to call me. And I said, what’s the third one? He says, that cell phone was given to me by the president of Congo. If he wants to reach me, he says, I want you to make sure that you always have this phone so I can reach you anytime I want to call you.

(19:43):
So he had a direct line right to the president of Congo and he had a group of soldiers and he says, I’ll send my soldiers to the festival to protect you. So a lot of his soldiers were very young, like 14, 15 years of age, and they all had full armor with these big guns and everything, AK 40 sevens. And when the evangelists came to the field, they would run along beside his car to get us there to the platform. And then they stood around the platform, the entire service. And I was a little scared because I have a 14-year-old son and he loves swords. And the other day he threw a sword onto a bed and cut up one of the sheets. And my wife was like, don’t you know how to handle a weapon responsibly? I can’t imagine my 14-year-old son with an AK 47. But here you have these 14, 15-year-old teenage boys that are in the Congo military protecting us at the

Jace Gustin (21:04):
Crusade.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
And then they took it upon themselves to make sure that the crowd didn’t get too unruly. And so the evangelist would say, who needs a miracle? Everyone would raise their hand and even some people that were sick would start running forward to the front and these teenage soldiers with their AK 47 would grab a whip and start to whip people to stay back from the platform and say, no, please don’t hit the people. Don’t hit the people. And they’d be whipping them and say, get in line, stop being unruly. But then I noticed that one of these 14 year olds kids, he didn’t have an AK 47, he had a surface to air missile and a big missile on his back. And I was thinking, if any helicopters attack our crusade, we’re going to be okay. We got our surface to air missile and he stood at the back and just looked important there with his service to air missile. And it felt a little dangerous because of these military guys that were there. But this verse, you’re just reading, it says that I whatever slings and arrows, you will not fear the terror of night nor the arrow that flies by day. And so even though we were shot at in Congo, we didn’t worry because of Psalms 91. Alright, keep reading, let’s start there.

Jace Gustin (22:36):
From seven,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:36):
Yeah,

Jace Gustin (22:38):
Eight a thousand may fall at your side, 10,000 at your right hand.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:44):
Alright, let’s talk about this. A thousand may fall at your side, 10,000 by your right hand. I was in Juba Sudan, and this was right after a civil war between what is now North Sudan and South Sudan had just ended. And so we were literally the first Christian organization that went in after the war ended. And lots of people were hungry because they’d been fighting and not much food had been able to get in. And so for the crusade in Juba, we bought 10 huge trucks full of food in Uganda and drove them up to Juba to give away. And so these were huge dump trucks. Each one filled with corn and rice and I think we brought some soap and some cooking oil, just different materials. All in all, it was like 53 tons of food. It’s a lot to give away to people. And the people were hungry. And so we were thinking, okay, if we pull up at the crusade grounds and start giving out this food, there’s going to be a riot. How can we give it away?

(24:20):
And we came up with an idea that we’re going to distribute the food to the churches that participated in the crusade. And then we were going to give away coupons at the crusade. So anyone who came to the crusade could get a coupon. And then on Sunday morning they could go to a Sunday morning service at one of the local churches and if they went, then the local churches would be able to give out the food. And so that kept it from being a big riot at the crusade grounds. But I was one of the team members at this crusade in Juba, and I was assigned to give away the coupons at one of the gates. So we had it in a football stadium or soccer stadium. And so people would come in one of the gates, and it was my job to give everybody who came in the gate a coupon.

(25:20):
And someone asked me, what is the coupon for? And I said, oh, later on you’ll be able to take it to the church and get some food. And so when they heard that there was going to be food, the people started rioting for the coupons. And at first it was like a dozen people yelling and then suddenly it was a hundred people yelling. And then suddenly it was like 2000 people pushing, trying to get a coupon. And people were pushing and yelling and grabbing for them. And I was trying to politely give everyone, I think you already got one. And so finally I had to take the entire batch of coupons I had and I threw it as far away from me as I could way up in the air. And so the coupons went everywhere and I went running in the other direction so that I could save myself. And so even though there are people falling down on the crowd, a thousand at one hand, 10,000 at the other hand, I survived passing out coupons for free food. Alright, keep reading.

Jace Gustin (26:42):
Alright, so yes, but it will not come near you. You’ll only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked. If you make the most high, your dwelling, even the Lord who is my refuge, then no harm will befall you. No disaster will come near your tent for he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:14):
So we actually have angels that are guarding us. I’m thinking about Pakistan. We’ve done quite a few different crusades in Pakistan. And I remember one of the first events that we did there, everybody that came to our event had to pass through a metal detector. They were worried that someone might bring a bomb to attack people. And then the police came and they put sharp shooters on all the houses surrounding where the festival was going to be. And most of these policemen are assigned by the government to protect us as foreigners because the government doesn’t want an incident. But these guys are Muslims. And so one night there was a Muslim policeman, his name was Muhammad Nassim, and he was blind in one eye that night Jesus healed him. And this policeman who had a big gun, he actually came to the platform to testify and says, I was blind in my left eye, but tonight when you prayed to Jesus, Jesus opened my eye and now I can see.

(28:37):
And so I said, what’s your name? He said, my name is Muhammad Nasim. And so of course everyone knew that he was a Muslim and the word spread that Jesus was healing Muslims. Another time I was going to Pakistan Ann, and the week before I went, I ministered at a church in Rockwall, Texas and God spoke to the pastor’s wife there in Rockwall that their church was supposed to be praying for us and God actually gave her a vision. And in the vision she saw that we were in danger and guns were being pointed at us. And so she said, we commit as a church to be praying for you. So we went, we were preaching and saw great results. The local imam came, stood in the back of the festival, saw all the people that were being healed by Jesus, and he went to his moss the next day and told everyone, Jesus is healing the Muslim people.

(29:37):
So if you want to be healed, go and the prophet Jesus will heal you. And so even the imam was encouraging people to go, but there were some that were not happy that we were there. And so on the last night as we were leaving this festival, we were out in the middle of this village, kind of in the middle of nowhere, and we were leaving on this dirt road that passed through some fields. And the bishop that we worked with, he suddenly told our driver drive faster because there was a suspicious car that was following us. And so this bishop, he’s a little elderly, and during the festival he would always kind of fall asleep on the platform when I was preaching, but then he would nod off and I’d get to a good point in my sermon, and then he would suddenly wake up and say amen and pretend like he hadn’t been sleeping.

(30:41):
But anyways, this bishop, he told the drive faster. So we sped up and this car that had five young Muslim guys who looked suspicious, it sped up and was following us. And so up ahead of us, suddenly there was a bicycle motorcycle, not a bicycle, a motorcycle that was parked in the middle of the road. And the guy who had the motorcycle, he had a handkerchief and he was trying to get us to stop. And the bishop told the driver, he says, just drive around him, just keep going. So we swerved into the field, drove around him and kept going. And as we passed him, the guy took a rifle off his shoulder and he shot at us. Bam.

(31:42):
We thought the driver was driving fast before, but now he really stepped on the gas. So he’s doing really fast. And the bishop’s wife, she started to pray in tongues at the top of her voice. She was just praying really loud. And then the bishop’s daughter, she had a baby that had just recently been born. And so she was scared. She thought her baby had been shot. And so she was freaking out and what are we? And so my wife was there with me, my wife was pregnant with Caleb at the time, and I was very proud of my wife. She started to minister to the daughter and saying, it’s okay, your baby’s okay, don’t worry, you weren’t shot. And then I was looking out the back window and trying to figure out what was happening, and this car was still following us with these Muslim young in it.

(32:40):
And so my wife, she was ministering to the daughter and then she kept turning to me and pulling me down and saying, if they shoot someone, they’re going to shoot the white face, so get down. And so she’s ministering to them. And of course I wasn’t listening to my wife, I was pulling, I kept looking out the back window. She kept pulling me down and ministering to the daughter. And then I looked over at the bishop and I didn’t know it, but the bishop had been carrying a pistol the entire time. And so he pulls this pistol out of his pants and he’s waving it around the car. And I don’t know much about guns, but I know you’re not supposed to point it at me. And so I’m like, Bishop, don’t point that thing at me, point it out the window, don’t point it at me.

(33:28):
And he’s waving the pistol all over, yelling at the driver, drive faster, drive faster. And this car is following us. And so we’re all praying and my wife is ministering to the daughter and then pulling me down and I wasn’t listening to her. And so we drove like this for like 20 minutes and then finally we were able to get off the dirt roads onto the main road, make some turns, and after 20 minutes we lost the car that was following us. I knew everything was going to be okay. When I looked over at the bishop and he had put away the pistol and he had fallen back asleep, that’s when I knew everything was going to be okay. But the amazing thing is, is that when we got back to the United States, the church from Rockwell called us and they said, we were in the middle of our Sunday morning service and we felt like we were supposed to pray for you guys.

(34:24):
So we stopped singing our praise and worship songs and we spent 20 minutes praying for you guys. And we figured out the time difference between Texas and Pakistan. And the very time that they were prompted by the Holy Spirit to pray for us was the time that we were in danger in Pakistan. And so the principle here is that if God prompts you to pray for someone, sometimes you’ll think of someone that you haven’t thought of for a long time and suddenly you’re like, why am I thinking about my Aunt Molly? Well, maybe it’s because your Aunt Molly needs prayer right now.

(35:10):
And so when the Holy Spirit prompts you to pray for someone, it’s probably because they’re facing a situation and they might be in danger. And so this church, they prayed for us at the exact time that we were in danger. So sometimes we need to be very sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit because he will bring people to our remembrance. He’ll prompt us to pray for people. And so now sometimes I’ll think of someone, why am I thinking of that person? Well, it’s probably because God wants me to pray for them. I’ll take a moment to just cover them in prayer. Alright, let’s keep reading.

Jace Gustin (35:57):
They will lift you up in their hands so that you’ll not strike your foot against a stone. You’ll tread upon the lion and the cobra. You’ll trample the great lion and the serpent, because he loves me, says the Lord. I’ll rescue him. I’ll protect him for he acknowledged my name. He’ll call upon me and I’ll answer him. I’ll be with him in trouble and I’ll deliver him and honor him with a long life. Will I satisfy him and show him my salvation?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:41):
So one time we were in k Myanmar, Burma, and we were doing a three night festival there. And as we were preaching, there were gang members who got saved. They were addicted to drugs, and they actually came up and threw all their drug paraphernalia up on the stage and we’re crying out. Jesus set me free. And so Jesus was setting them free from being addicted to drugs. And on the last night of the festival, the gang that was selling drugs in that neighborhood, they came and they attacked the brother of my crusade director who was helping me to organize that event. And they threw rocks at him and picked up sticks and beat him. And they hurt him so severely that he went to the hospital. He was in the hospital for several days. He had blood streaming from several cuts on his head, his face and his back was really bruised badly.

(38:04):
And we don’t know if he was attacked because they were Buddhists who were mad that we’re preaching about Jesus or because they were gang members who were mad that we are setting people free from drugs. We’re not quite sure why he was attacked, but he was attacked. And so there is potentially danger when you preach the gospel, but God also has special protection for you. Another time I’m thinking about my mother and father. So after 20 years as missionaries in Mexico and Juarez, which as I said earlier was the murder capital of the world for a period, then I kind of joke around and says it got too dangerous for them in Juarez. So they decided to go somewhere else and the place they decided to go was Kabul, Afghanistan, which probably is even more dangerous. But I was so proud of my parents. They went and they were in Kabbala, Afghanistan, and they taught at a school there.

(39:15):
But they had some friends that they went to their house for prayer meeting. They were very close friends of my family. And they had a son and a daughter who went to the school that my parents taught at and were actually the son and the daughter. They were in classes with my brother who was teaching there. Well, the Taliban attacked this family and it was in the middle of the day. They attacked the house where they lived. They used rifles and machine guns to attack their house, started throwing grenades. And so my mother and father, they lived just a couple of blocks away and you don’t really know what’s going on, but suddenly you hear all the gunshots and the grenade blasts going off. And so my mother and father didn’t have anything to do, but to get under their bed and to pray. And so they stayed there for several hours because the Taliban attacked and then the Afghan military was called and they attacked the Taliban.

(40:35):
And so all day long my parents were hiding under their bed listening to the bomb blasts, grenades, the rifles going off and just praying. And it wasn’t until later that they found out what happened. The Taliban came in and they killed several Afghans there that this man had been working with. They killed the father and they killed the son and the daughter, both teenagers and the mother escaped because she wasn’t there at the time. But she had to come in to the hospital, the morgue, and identify the bodies of the father and her son, her daughter. And as she’s identifying them, the Afghan doctor was really surprised and said, why are you so peaceful? Usually if someone has a family member who dies, they’re freaking out, they’re crazy. And she was able to minister to the Afghan doctor in the morgue say, I can have peace because I love Jesus.

(41:53):
And Jesus. He died to save them from their sins. And because they believed in Jesus, they’re going to go to heaven. And if you will cry out to Jesus, you can go to heaven too. And so even right after this woman was seeing the bodies of her martyred husband and son and daughter, she had tremendous peace because of the prince of peace, Jesus whom she served. And so even in very difficult situations, we can have peace. Another time we were in Jammu, India and we actually had a situation where we set up a tent to do our festival in and a bunch of Hindus came and they rioted and they tore down our tent. And so they had 30 people who came in and they started marching around the place where we’re going to have our festival and basically saying, this is a Hindu nation and you are Christian, you can’t be meeting here. And they were acting very radically. So the pastor that we were working with, he went to the police to report the situation, say We have a permit. We were supposed to do a festival in this place, but they tore down our tent,

Jace Gustin (43:44):
They

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (43:45):
Tore down all the poles. And the policeman who was taking his report, he says, oh, I know what happened. He said, how do you know? He says, well, I was there. I was one of the people protesting. So they’re reporting this to the policemen. And the policemen had been one of the people there who was helping to tear down the tent. So the policemen weren’t able to help, but then a miracle happened. There was a local politician who came, and he was actually the head of one of the political parties that normally would be against Christians, but he heard that they tore down our things. And he came and he says, I don’t think this is right. And this politician, God really softened his heart. And he came to us and he says, the Hindus, they have their festivals and no one stops them. The Sikhs, they have their festivals and no one stops them.

(44:52):
He says, why shouldn’t the Christians be allowed to have a festival? And so he says, I’ll give you a place in town and you can have your festival there. And so we went from the outskirts of the city to he moved us right into the middle of the city, into this big hall that was normally used for weddings and that type of thing. And so we were able to have our festival there because God gave us favor with this Hindu politician. And many people were touched by God in that place. So there’s lots of potentially dangerous situations, but there are also great miracles that God does when we are obedient to him. And so I think it’s important to remember that we don’t need to fear, we are protected. God puts his angels in charge of us. And we read here in Psalms 91, these great promises of God, of what he can do to protect us, to help us. And ultimately we know that God will protect us here on earth. But even if something was to happen to us here on earth, we would go immediately upon death to be with God in heaven for all of eternity. Alright, let’s just finish by praying for protection. Jace, pray for my friend who is listening to this right now is maybe worried about going to the mission field. Just pray that God would protect our friends and that no harm would come to anyone on the mission field.

Jace Gustin (46:43):
Alright, well, father, we just invite you to be in our lives and that Father that in wherever we go, let it be guided and directed by your Holy Spirit so that wherever we are, we know that you are with us, that you are guiding us, and you’re just bringing us into the places that you have prepared to reach people for your name, for your glory. And Lord, just give us just the divine knowledge of where to go and what to say and how to act, and that we know and trust that you’ll carry us through it and protect us. In Jesus’ name I pray, amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (47:29):
Amen. Thanks for listening to the Evangelism podcast.

Evangelism Podcast Host (47:33):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an altar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (48:35):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you. For

Evangelism Podcast Host (49:56):
More information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.

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Joseph Wilson | Persecution in India

Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.

Connect with Joseph Wilson on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joseph.wilson.92372

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently, his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:31):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Joseph Wilson from the Nation of India. Thank you for joining me today.

Joseph Wilson (01:08):
Amen. Such a wonderful time that the Lord has given me and I’m so honored, excited to be over here and to be part of this podcast. And I tell you, my life was so much transformed with this man of God and I say one of the reason for me to be where I am today is this man of God has spoken a word over my life.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:32):
Amen. Well, how long do you think we’ve known each other? When was the first time that we met? I

Joseph Wilson (01:39):
Have met you in the year 2005.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:45):
Wow. So we’ve been friends for a very long time now. It’s

Joseph Wilson (01:48):
A long

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:48):
Time and at that time we were doing many gospel festivals in the nation of India. My wife and I have such a great love for India. My wife Jessica actually lived in the nation of India for almost two years, and then I’ve been going and talking to people about Jesus and it’s so amazing the nation of India, 1.2 billion people. It’s a huge nation full of people that need Jesus.

Joseph Wilson (02:22):
Absolutely. And now the recent census of our country says we are with 1.4 plus billion people.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
And so India continues to grow.

Joseph Wilson (02:33):
It’s continuing to grow, and as it continues to grow, it is giving us a lot of challenges to reach the people where our nation is needed to.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:43):
Now, the first missionary who went to India was the Apostle Thomas.

Joseph Wilson (02:50):
Apostle Thomas. Yes.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:51):
The same doubting Thomas who doubted that Jesus came back to life, but after he became convinced of the Jesus’s resurrection, history says that he went to India.

Joseph Wilson (03:04):
He went to the India. Yes, you are right. He came to India and to his amazement, there were so many rituals taking place and there were belief and there were system that was not of God. They were in search of God, but in many different ways. But when Apostle Thomas came, he knew the real God. So he made excitement and then he performed the miracles where the people encountered God first. Ever since then, the kingdom of God is getting established in India,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:38):
And there’s actually many different religions in the nation of India. You are multi religion, multi-ethnic groups. So you have Christianity, you have Islam, you have many, many Hindus, many, many Hindus. You have the Sikh religion, Jainism and many other religions,

Joseph Wilson (04:03):
Many other religion. What amazes us is India is such a huge country with such a big religion aspect. Everyone in India are devotees to God, but they have different religious to teach them. And there’s Hinduism, Muslims, Jainism, Sikhism, and I tell you there are very different groups as well in India with hundreds and thousands, to our amazement, 33 millions of and goddesses our nation. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Let’s talk specifically about Christianity because there has been a lot of persecution that has come against religious minorities and in India, Christianity is a minority. Do you know what percentage of India would follow Jesus?

Joseph Wilson (04:55):
The census says that it is closely to 3% out of 1.4 billion people follows Jesus. Now, when I say 3%, I don’t mean that everyone loves Jesus out of this 3%, there are Catholics, there are atheists, there are people who are far away from Jesus, but just a name. Take Christians.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:19):
So some of the 3% are only Christians in name only. But there has come a lot of persecution recently against the Christian churches in India. In fact, I was just sitting down a few days ago with one of my friends who is a pastor from Manipur and he was telling me that many of the churches in Manpo have been burned. Even the houses of some of the Christians have been burned and the Christians have had to flee from the cities up into the hills and they’re in hiding.

Joseph Wilson (05:57):
Yes, they are in hiding. This was happening up in the month of May. This is planned way beforehand for the persecution, being honest with you all. There were so many things that happened. The churches were burned, you were right. Many people left the houses and their houses was burned and to management. There were many women who were raped, paraded, naked, and I tell you, there was no words spoken by the government in behalf of them to ask them to be protected. But these riots have taken place and this is making chaos in our nation. Let me tell you, this is not the first time that has happened in the year 2008. There is a state called Ora where the same thing happened and let me be honest, with the same kind of a government which was running the state at that time. So there is on and off persecutions that are happening up. Evidently what I could say is it started with the little, but now it’s getting bigger. Bigger and the worst.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:06):
That’s very sad. And it’s not just the churches in Manipur that have been affected by this. You pastor and your church actually was burnt. Tell me what happened.

Joseph Wilson (07:20):
Yes, with the vision of God that I moved from my native town to a new city, which is called Miser, which has 1.3 million people and hardly 120 churches in the entire city. And out of that only 2% of them are Christians and out of 2%, when I say Christian, there are only 0.5 people who believe Jesus, not even 0.5. So God with the vision I have been to the city with the family. We planted a church. Our church is three and a half years old and we pray to God, take us to the people where you want me to serve. And we never knew the city. We don’t know anyone in the city. By faith, we moved as a family and we started a church through a plumber who comes to us. His aunt was with the cancer and that was a good opportunity. He said to me, this is what the conversation, who are you?

(08:18):
Then I said, Hey, I’m a pastor, pastor, what do you do? Then I said, I pray for the people. You left everything to pray for the people. Then I said, yeah, why? Then I said, I would love to see happiness in the life of people. I love to see blessings in the families. That’s why I came. He was amazed. We exchanged our numbers. He goes back after two days he calls me, you said you pray for the people. My aunt is with the cancer. She’s diabetic. She’s on the deathbed. Would you come and pray? I said, I would come. We went there. I tell you, we prayed. She’s still alive. The Lord healed and they took us to three new Hindu families and that’s how the church grew in our house. We began our church at house. As we were growing to 28 people, the neighboring people began to complain against us.

(09:14):
They complained to the police and the men in the families were against us and they wanted to put us in a prison. So the police intervention and the group of people intervention, we were forced to stop our church at home. We stopped our church, we began to zero. Then again, we started the church. That’s what our life is. We are called to reach the people. So we began the church at home again after eight months, and then immediately God helped us to rent a building. We went there. We started the church. As we started again, the Lord started to do signs, wonders, healings. Then the church began to grow. Now I tell you, 80 to 85% of the people who come to our church never heard about Jesus before. They were Hindus. Now as the church was growing, we started our church in February, 2020. Then 2021, July the second. People were so angry against us because they tried to stop us, threaten us, but we were not. We went on to do the church. Finally they did. They burned our church because we were not listening to their threats. They burnt our church. We lost the sound. I tell you, we lost everything. Everything but

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:41):
All your musical instruments, the sound system, yes,

Joseph Wilson (10:44):
Chairs,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:46):
Everything was burnt.

Joseph Wilson (10:47):
Everything was burned to the ashes, everything was burnt and the same night the police came. Now that city is new to me. I don’t know anyone. When the police came, I expected them to support me because I was the one who is in loss. But the police, they were more than 20 plus people and they said, who are you? Then I said, I’m Joseph. The response from them were, are you a Christian? Then I said, yes. What are you doing here? Then I said, I have a music class. Then they said, music, no, you are doing something. That’s why people have set fire on you. You have done wrong. That’s why people are upset on you. Now you come to the police, we are going to file a case against you and you need to fight it in the court

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:34):
Or And the police, after your church was burnt, they came and said that you are doing something wrong.

Joseph Wilson (11:41):
Absolutely. I was mistreated by the police. They interrogated me for more than three hours.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:49):
Wow. It’s really sad because according to the constitution of India, you are supposed to have freedom of religion.

Joseph Wilson (11:58):
Absolutely. The constitution of our nation gives us all the rights to speak. We have a freedom of religion, freedom of speech, but yet because of the power and the abuse, you of power and because of to gain some popularity, people are always throwing stones against Christians.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:21):
Wow. So what ended up happening with your church, you had everything burnt, so you had to close down for a little bit, and then what happened?

Joseph Wilson (12:32):
We needed to close down. The police were against us. The people were against us. We lost everything. And the saddest part was they wanted to take me to the prison. But that night I was literally feared, but I saw the invisible hand of God helping and protecting. Then the Lord helped me to come out of that night and the next day the wise thing I did was to leave the city and go to the city where I was born. So I stayed in that city for more than one and a half month away. Then we closed our church after the issue was closed down, I came back. I started to clean the church and began to restore the church. The issue was done, but God intervened in such a way. There was a person whom I came in contact and they spoke to the police officers telling that he’s our guy, so he’s doing good. So because of the political influence and the word that I received, the police were subjective to the command of the authorities, and that is how God led us to come out of that kind of a situation. But they burned the church. It took us five months to restore the church and we closed it. But by God’s grace in December the 2021, we opened the church again, but glory to beat God that we haven’t lost anybody.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:57):
Wow. And how many people are attending your church right now? Right

Joseph Wilson (14:01):
Now our church is three and a half years old. We are with 80 people in the church, and I tell you, 30 people, we baptized them and there are more than 80% of the people were Hindus who never knew Jesus before.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:18):
Wow. What a great miracle. And I have to commend you for continuing on in what God has called you to do even in the midst of persecution. I know it’s not easy, but one of the things in your testimony that you have shared with me was the impact of one message that I preached many years ago and you heard the message and ever since it has been one of the defining messages of your life. Tell me about that.

Joseph Wilson (14:50):
Absolutely. I cannot leave this program without speaking that word. In fact, before I could say that statement, let me tell about a brief testimony. I was going through terrible times in my life. I never had anybody to support me or to strengthen me or to be a friend. I was going through such a deep down life. I was broken, my soul was broken, my future was blinded, and I failed my education and I was the only son to my parents, huge expectations, and I was growing up. There was no future for me. And there was so many things I tell you, nothing was going my way. Neither nothing was happening. What I was planning to do, everything was chaotic. At that moment of time, I decided to die. I decided to commit suicide because I don’t have future. I don’t have vision, I don’t have anything in my life.

(15:56):
So what I did was when I thought to die myself, one word that changed my life was Jeremiah 29 11. One of my friends sent me a text at the time where I was wanting to commit suicide that says, the Lord has plans to prosper you, to give you a future and a hope. When I read that s I felt peace in my heart, and that’s the time I saw new things beginning to happen. Right after that transformation, I come to a crusade in 2007, November the 11th. I still remember November the 11th, and there were more than 500 people in the auditorium. You were speaking in a conference. I was sitting on the tro. You were speaking about obeyed Iam. You were speaking about his origin. It was so great. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:55):
So Obed Edam is an obscure Bible character, but his story will change your story and it’s one of the messages I love to preach. In fact, I wrote a book about it called The Secret of Obed Edem, and he was the guy that was living beside the road, which led to Jerusalem. And one day, king David decided to bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. And so they passed in front of the house of Obed Edam and a tragedy happened. A man fell over dead when he touched the ark. And so King David said, forget about taking the arc to Jerusalem, put it in that house right there. And he pointed to the house of Obed Edam. And so they carried the Ark of the Covenant where the presence of God dwell and they placed it in the living room of Obed Edo. And in first Chronicles 13, it says that the arc of God remained in his house for three months and it says that God blessed his household and everything that he, so when the presence of God came into his house, he was blessed.

(17:54):
And so when you invite the presence of God into your house, you’re going to be blessed. But his story does not end there. It’s mentioned seven more times in scripture and he becomes addicted to the presence of God. Edam follows the Ark to Jerusalem and he starts to serve in the house of God. He starts out as a gatekeeper in the temple, then he becomes a heart player in the temple worship group. Then he becomes a leader. His entire family is serving God. And then the last time he’s mentioned, he’s the keeper of the temple Treasury. So we see this great promotion in his life. His story didn’t end at the beginning. He continued on.

Joseph Wilson (18:38):
Yes. And that’s what when us speaking, that was fascinating. My heart got connected to the word, and I still remember as you were preaching intensely bringing the word, you saw me, and this is the turning point of my life. You saw me in the middle of everything you just said, Joseph, stand up. I was shocked. I stood up. And this is the word that you said. Your story has not finished yet.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:09):
Your story is not finished yet. Not

Joseph Wilson (19:11):
Finished yet. I was so thrilled the moment I was thinking my story is over, I don’t have any life. That’s the time you said your story is not finished yet. And you said, the way the Lord has blessed, obeyed I, your life will be blessed. Get ready for the promotions. And I tell you, I began my life from that situation. And from then on, I hold it onto that word to that says to me, my story has not finished yet. This is just the beginning. And I tell you today, I still look around myself and say, my story is not finished yet. And thus the way that the Lord blessed my life and for the past 16 years, I’m holding that word which I wanted to die, but that word gave me a life. That word gave me the vision. That word gave me a family. That word gave me future. That word gave me ministry. That word gave me friends. That word gave me such a confidence. Whatever I am doing today, it’s that word that put a foundation for my great faith in Jesus

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:23):
Christ. And so even when it was difficult to start a church, even when your neighbors were complaining, even when your church was burned and you lost everything, that prophetic word from the Lord, your story is not finished yet has continued to inspire you and motivate you, and you have to seek after the will of God for your life.

Joseph Wilson (20:50):
Absolutely. That word made such a terrible transformation, I tell you as obey was blessed step by step. And you said to me the same way, Joseph, your life God is going take you step by step. I remember sitting down and I became a worship leader. God started to upgrade me, update me to a translator. And I tell you, I was sitting in this man of God’s crusades and God made me to lead worship for his crusades and also to translate the word of God. So I am the example of how a prophetic word when we receive gets true. And I am very honored that I received it through this man of God. And I am the true example of that word. Your story has not finished yet.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:39):
Amen. Well, that is a tremendous prophetic word that I believe will continue to work in your life. Amen. Because Joseph, your story is not finished yet. God has more for you. And I believe that God has more for the nation of India. Let’s talk a little bit more about the persecution that has happened in India. The constitution of India guarantees religious freedom. In Article 25 of the Indian Constitution, it says, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess practice and propagate religion. And so that is enshrined in your constitution, constitution. And so India is the largest democracy in the world. They have many elections and they’re supposed to guarantee freedom of religion, but that often has not happened. Often militant Hindus have harassed, they oppress, they attack Christians, and they even make laws restricting the freedom of Christians. They attack churches, they persecute people who would want to convert from one religion to the other. And they even have kicked missionaries out of the country and they have shut the door that anybody who would want to talk about Jesus, they refuse to give them a visa. So in effect, there is not freedom of religion. And so what do you think the church should do in the face of this persecution?

Joseph Wilson (23:29):
This is very much interesting in the face of persecution the churches are really going through. But one observation that I have made as it in the Book of Acts, when such kind of a persecution are going through it is dividing who the real people who are called to serve. There are people who are going back. There are people who are struggling, there are people who are giving up, but there are people who are marching forward to do what God has called to do. Now among all these persecution, definitely every tongue in India are praying for God for miracles to happen. Now, one thing that persecutions are happening up is, I’m sorry to say, because of the government, because they back up the people, the vanity groups, because of their political gain, they use the groups to attack the church and they want to win the elections or be in power in the name of religion. So that’s the biggest optical the church is facing. But among these things, it’s very hard to confine our growth only to one thing. It’s a challenge. We are accepting in reality about the challenge, but still we are commended to preach the gospel and to reach the people. So that’s the thing that we are doing in spite of all the things what’s happening up around.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:06):
And many of the states in India have passed what they call anticon conversion laws. What are those?

Joseph Wilson (25:15):
My state? My state was ruled by the government, which is running the country now. When they were in power, they were so much against the Christians and the churches. They finally brought an anticon conversion bill. Now I need to tell this, this anticon conversion bill is so, so cruel. If I go and share my faith to someone else, if they don’t like it, they can go to the police, file a complaint against me, and I would be put in prison non bailable warrant. I would be in prison for more than seven years.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:00):
Just for talking to someone about your faith in Jesus.

Joseph Wilson (26:04):
Absolutely. Now, not only that, if I preach gospel to someone, if they get saved and they come to church, their whole family has the power to go to the police and say, Hey, somebody spoke to my son or my daughter, and they manipulated them so they can go and write a complaint against a pastor or an evangelist and they would be considered and the pastor or the evangelist or the churches would be put in prison. That’s the severeness of the law. We prayed. We prayed. But I tell you, God is so powerful in this year, in the month of May, 2023, the governments got changed. And the first thing the present government of my state has done is they have revoked the law forever.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:53):
And so in your state, in which state do you live

Joseph Wilson (26:56):
In? I live in the state of Karnataka. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:57):
In Karnataka. Now the Anticon conversion law is not on the books? No,

Joseph Wilson (27:04):
It’s

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:04):
Not on the books. But in some of the other states continues to, some

Joseph Wilson (27:08):
Of states still continue. I tell you, wherever the government is ruling the states, every state which is ruled by this government has been subjected for the Anticon conversion bill. And I tell you, it’s going to be hard if you run a church in a house, it is considered as illegal because you are getting people to your house and converting them. If you run a church in a rented buildings or the hotels, it’s not going to be considered as a church because that is a social gathering place. Now the government is bringing the law.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:43):
And then if you own the church, sometimes the churches get burned down.

Joseph Wilson (27:46):
Absolutely. If you own a church, they say, why are you getting people now? They are taking even the census of the church, how many people you have. After a year, they come back again and check the census. If they find out there are more number of people, they’re questioning who are they? How do they come to you? And if they come to church, the believers, they are cutting the access of provisions which are from the government for the poor people. That’s the saddest part. What’s happening up?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:20):
Wow. Well, we need to pray for the Church of India. I think even in the midst of persecution, it just makes the church to grow more and more and more because people will turn away from a hopeless religion to turn towards the hope that is found in Jesus Christ.

Joseph Wilson (28:42):
Absolutely, brother Daniel. We need our nation. Our churches need prayers to back us up. We need more prayers than ever before because we are in more danger than ever before. I say this word because from the politicians, the seed against Christians is now spread all across the nation where everybody are so passionate against the church and to see the end of the church or to see the destruction of church.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:17):
Amen. Well, let’s finish by praying for the nation of India. You said that now the population is 1.4 billion people, a huge number of people, many who need to find Jesus Christ, the hope of Jesus, and to have the opportunity to be saved. So would you pray for the nation of India?

Joseph Wilson (29:41):
Absolutely. It’s my joy to pray for our country. We need prayer. We need Jesus. We need the kingdom of God to invade. And there is no greater power and strength than prayer. I would love to pray. Let’s pray. Dear Father, we thank you Lord for your unmerited favor and unconditional love towards us. Father, you are the same yesterday, today and forever. You love us the same. And Lord, we are here praying for our beautiful nation, India with 1.4 billion people. They need you, father. They need your kingdom. And we pray today how mercy on our nation, how your grace upon our nation, Jesus, let your kingdom rule and reign. We pray for all the people who needs to be saved because you shed your blood on the cross of calvary for the remissions of sins of every one. Oh God. And we pray that you would have mercy and grant salvation to our nation.

(30:56):
We pray whatever ways are being made hard to preach the gospel, that you will make a way for us to reach the communities, to reach the people. Lord, open the blind eyes to see you. Open the hearts to receive you. Father, let the word of God shine upon people and let people get saved. We pray for more people to serve you. We pray for the freedom of our religion of God. We pray for the freedom of our speech. We pray, father, that you would make roots to reach the people. And we pray for the politicians. We pray for the leaders. We pray for all the groups who are against your church. God, you transformed soul to Paul and that’s your power, and that’s what we pray. Transform the hard-hearted leaders and the politicians who are against your kingdom, who are against your gospel, and may your kingdom establish. Thank you for your saving grace and saving power. In Jesus’ name we pray, father. Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:06):
Amen. Well, brother Joseph, I have a word from God for you. Your story is not finished yet. God has more for you.

Joseph Wilson (32:17):
Amen. I receive this word with joy and gladness, and I begin my journey again with a higher altitude of life telling to myself, my story has not finished yet.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:31):
And so we are standing with you in India. We are praying for you in India. And I know that God will give us a great harvest of souls across the great nation of India.

Joseph Wilson (32:44):
Amen. I receive that. We believe that. And also I witness the crusades that you ministered thousands of people. What a joy was it for us to see you sacrificing your place in America, coming over there and preaching the gospel and ministering so many villages which never had Jesus before, never had church before because of you were yes to the Lord. Today. I see as a witness, there are hundreds of churches, thousands of people in the kingdom of God. And that’s what enlightens me, challenges me. When a man of God sacrifice and come to my country to speak. What am I doing? What are we doing? So your life is always an encouragement to me. Influence to me. And I tell you, words fail to describe how much impact you have created in me. One of the reason for me to go to the lost places and the lost people is you looking at the crus. That’s what my life has been in transformed. And here I’m as an example, doing what God has called to do. And that’s why again, I say my story has not finished yet.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:01):
Amen. Thank you brother Joseph. Are

Evangelism Podcast Host (34:03):
You called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and is seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give antar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:05):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.

Evangelism Podcast Host (36:25):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.

 

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Mark Swiger | Reaching India with The Gospel

Between 1996 and 2006 Mark Swiger conducted more city-wide crusades in India than any other ministry. He preached face to face to millions of people and saw over half a million people turn to Christ. His television program “Healing for You Today” reached millions throughout Asia. Now God has given him a plan to raise up 300 evangelists who will impact the nation of India for Jesus.

Learn More: https://markswiger.org/

Transcript: 

Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Between 1996 and 2006, mark swagger conducted more citywide crusades in India than any other ministry. He preached face to face to millions of people and saw over half a million Hindus and Muslims turned to Christ his television program “Healing for you today” Reached millions throughout Asia. Now God has given him a plan to raise up 300 evangelists who will impact the nation of India for Jesus.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:42):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith. They’re powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelist Daniel King (01:07):
Welcome To the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, mark swagger. Thank you for in joining me today.

Mark Swiger (01:20):
Well, it’s wonderful to be here. My brother, I’m excited about what God is doing in this hour.

Evangelist Daniel King (01:27):
You have been an evangelist for many years, been really involved in helping to disciple people. And I know that you did so many events in the nation of India. How did you first get started as an evangelist?

Mark Swiger (01:48):
Well, I was pastoring a, oh, I guess it was, you’d say it was a medium sized church, a church of about 250 people in rural Maine, which was, it was a big crowd for rural Maine. And it taken us many years. I’d been pastoring for about over 15 years and, and we eventually got into a, a good size church and built it up. And I finally had a nice home and a nice family and swimming pool and the trappings that come with, you know, a little bit of success and right in the midst of that I the Lord gave me a dream, just a one minute dream in the middle of the night. And it changed my whole life in the direction of my ministry, but I saw a vision of a landscape and the Lord said memorize what you’re seeing.

Mark Swiger (02:44):
And so I memorized this landscape and the buildings and different things. And I didn’t know how, but I knew I was looking at the nation of India somewhere in India. And the Lord spoke just these words. He said, these people are among the poorest people on the face of the earth. And I think from that he imparted his heart, his love for the people into my heart. I think he was talking about more spiritual poverty than he was physical poverty. But when I, when I, before I saw the landscape, it was like two big black doors opened up and revealed this landscape. So I didn’t I knew it meant the Lord was gonna go open up doors to go to India, but I didn’t know what that meant. I didn’t know anybody in India. And so I knew that I just kind of put it on the back burner.

Mark Swiger (03:39):
I didn’t wanna try to make something happen. And about six months later, I got up, I was turned on the television. It was about two o’clock in the morning. And at that time, a relatively unknown evangelist was on his name was Reinhard Bonnke. I’d heard of him, but he hadn’t. He had only started doing the, the massive crusades that he was known for later, but I caught his television program. And, and suddenly as I was watching this to my surprise, the spirit of the Lord fell upon me and the Lord spoke, not audibly, but just of that, you know, that reverberating atmosphere of his, of his word, he said, do in India, what Reinhard Bonnke is doing in Africa. And I tell people, I felt like a five year old kid that, that the Lord said graduate from college tomorrow. You know, that’s how I felt.

Mark Swiger (04:37):
It felt like it was so impossible. I’d been pastoring, small churches, and to go into mass evangelism seemed like it was impossible, but I knew it, there must have been a way for that to happen. If God asked me to do it, it couldn’t be totally impossible. So I was going back to bed. Well, I decided to call the the one 800 number at the end of the program. I still remember it one 800. He heals. And that’s a good number. I Lord, if you, if you want me to get on do what Reinhard Bonnke, he’s doing, I gotta find out what he’s doing and how he’s doing it. So I figured next time he would come to the states. I would attend to his meeting. So I, I needed to get on the mailing list. So that’s why I called his ministry.

Mark Swiger (05:28):
The one 800 number and a nice lady, took my name and address. And I was on the mailing list and I was going to bed. It was now three o’clock in the morning. And my phone rang back and I said, who could be calling me at 3:00 AM? Somebody in the church must have died. And I answered the phone and a man said, did you just call Reinhard Bonnke ministries? And I said, yes. And I’m thinking, yeah, me and, you know, hundreds of others or thousands of others. And he said, why did you call? And I said, I didn’t wanna say the Lord just told me to do it’s doing in Africa. He would think I was crazy. So I just said, I called to get on the mailing list. And he said, well, next month, Reinhard Bonnke is going to be in India, doing a crusade in India.

Mark Swiger (06:24):
I said, I didn’t know. He went to India said, yes, he’s just started going to India. I said, well, who are you? He said, I am Reinhard Bonnke’s brother-in-law Dr. Ron Shaw. And he invited me to India and to be part of the team there. And so the, I went and attended the crusade and I thought I would carry bonks bags for about five years, you know, and learn what to do, but they didn’t need anybody. But I got a tremendous impartation at the pastor’s fire meeting. And they put me to work promoting the crusade in churches as part of the team. But long story short the Lord somehow did a work in my heart to where it seemed, where it seemed impossible to do crusades. It somehow seemed easy. And so the following year I began, I did six crusades back to back and over a couple of months period.

Mark Swiger (07:27):
And just the rest is history. I ended up doing 52 crusades, citywide crusades there in India. And I was on television throughout Asia for a couple of years. And by God’s grace, we did a, I don’t, I never did do what bonky was doing in Africa. We didn’t get up to that level, but by God’s grace, we were able to see crowds of a hundred thousand around in that level. But we we’d go to the unreached places and the smaller places, but I know I took a long time there to get that across, but that’s, that’s how I got involved in, in evangelism.

Evangelist Daniel King (08:06):
A 52 crusades in India is an amazing accomplishment. Of course, it’s really just a drop in the bucket. India has 1.2 billion people, and there’s such a huge harvest field there. But one time you shared with me a plan that God had given you for raising up evangelist in India, who would go village to village, and you had an entire plan for that. Yeah. Tell, tell me about that, because I think that that vision comes from God and there will come a day where it will come to pass in Jesus’ name.

Mark Swiger (08:46):
Well, you know, I, I wrote that vision down and sent it out to every major evangelist. It was called. I called it operation Fox fire. It was named after, you know when Sampson caught 300 foxes and the Lord showed me catch a hold of 300 evangelists, you know FY brand evangelists and get 300 and, and make 150 teams out of them and, and outfit them with the mobile crusade vehicles, trucks that turned into, you know, platforms with sound systems. And so I wrote the vision down. I sent it out to different all the different ministries and nobody would partner with me except I did get a letter back from Marilyn Hickey. And I, I mean, everybody was nice. They just were, you know, were busy and they didn’t didn’t feel led to help, but Marilyn Hickey said, write it down, make it plain though.

Mark Swiger (09:48):
The vision Terry is shall surely come to pass. And so I built the first mobile crusade vehicle and a dear brother a major ministry pledged 5 million to build the hundred and 50 crusade, mobile crusade units. And I was just getting, I was recruiting the 300 fire brand evangelists from all over India and in the different languages they speak. And I, I was, I was getting a, a school rented where we could train them, like in a military environment, you know, and I was gonna bring in the biggest names of evangelism to impart into the 150 teams. And all of this was in place. And I had left India for just a short time to go to Singapore. And when I tried to get back in, I was blacklisted and I lost all the equipment and I had vehicles and I had big sound systems and I had everything in place.

Mark Swiger (10:56):
And somehow I think they got word of my plans. <Laugh> the government of India did. And they blacklisted me and I’m still blacklisted. It’s been 16 years, but that one mobile crusade vehicle I built Daniel it’s been active all these years and going from village to village and seeing a harvest of souls, but I it’s still on my heart. I would love to see that happen. And you know, what really has blessed me is that Daniel NDA is doing something similar in Africa. And I know you’ve been involved in that, you know, in raising up those fire brand evangelists there. And so that really excited me to see that, but I, I don’t know at what point the, how long more the vision will tear, but I’m still ready and, and able, I’m still breathing. I’d like to see that happen before, before I go onto my reward. But that’s, that’s what happened to operation Fox fire.

Evangelist Daniel King (11:59):
Yeah. And I believe that that vision is a vision that comes from God and what comes from God cannot be stopped by man or by government. And so the God has given you the vision. And, and I think that that that vision will come to pass. I, I have seen with the evangelism bootcamp that Christ for nations is doing in Orlando, Florida. They’ve been raising up and training up evangelists who are going throughout Africa, and now many other parts of the world preaching the gospel. Amen. And I could see a school for evangelism in the nation of India. And of course it’s so needed. India has blacklisted, not only you some of my other evangelist friends have also been blacklisted. So I, I think it is so important to, to raise up evangelists from within India that can’t be kicked out. They have to sure. Keep them there. And, and you know, now with modern technology with zoom and we, we could have a school of evangelism even from a distance and be training up evangelism for India. And, and so though at Terry, it shall surely come to pass and

Mark Swiger (13:25):
Well, yeah, Daniel, I’m glad that you mentioned that because I’m getting kind of maybe a little bit long in the tooth here, but it just never dawned on me that I didn’t have to be there to conduct this school and training. And neither to you, you know, something we could do. I would just love you to be part of training those 300 fire brand evangels in India through zoom or online. And I think we could really still have an impartation into their lives.

Evangelist Daniel King (13:55):
Mark, you have seen so many miracles in your ministry, blind eyes, open deaf ears, hearing cripples, standing up and walking. What role do you think miracles play in evangelism,

Mark Swiger (14:10):
Miracles and signs and wonders are absolutely mandatory. You cannot possibly preach the gospel with any effect at all, or be effective as far as seeing people saved and, and affecting the multitudes. You cannot do it without signs and wonders and miracles. When Jesus sent them out, he sent them out into every city where he would self would go, and he told them to heal the sick cast out devils, raise the dead if necessary. And in other words, do what he would do if he were there. And that’s what Jesus wants us to do. The same thing. He’s the same yesterday, today and forever. He wants us to do the exact same thing he did. And we need to represent Jesus completely and fully, not a partial Jesus, but, you know, as they say, well, the real Jesus, please stand up. You know, we went, when I first started going to India they had 300 and 300 million gods.

Mark Swiger (15:15):
They, they say over there and I prayed, I cried out God, don’t let me give them 300 million. And one gods that cannot help them. I must represent the Jesus in his fullness, the Jesus, as he really is, and the heart and love and the power of Jesus and our word is not to be in word alone. Our gospel’s not in word alone, but in power and demonstration, it must be. And I tell everybody, don’t leave home without it. Don’t go on the mission field. Don’t attempt to preach the gospel. If you do not have signs following and the Lord working with you in this way in your ministry,

Evangelist Daniel King (16:00):
What comes next? I heard you’re going to Mexico for a crusade soon.

Mark Swiger (16:05):
Yeah. In November, I think it’s fifth, six, seven, and eight. We’re doing a crusade into Mexico, Mexico, which is about an hour south of Mexico city. And in our advanced work I heard it’s going excellent. And we’ve got over 300 churches in cooperation for those meetings so far. And even in the advanced work there’s been tremendous miracles happening in the churches following the man that’s doing the advanced work, promoting the crusade. So that’s what you wanna have. People will say my goodness, if the, if the advanced man does this, what will happen when mark shows up? You know, so <laugh>, you know, the, the, you need even have miracles in your advanced work. So that’s really why all the churches are getting excited already, even before the crusade, crusade and faith is rising. So we’re excited about that.

Evangelist Daniel King (17:06):
Let’s talk a little bit more about the 300 evangelists that God gave you the vision to, to raise up. And I, I, I think a lot about coaching evangelists, training evangelists, what are some of the principles that you think would be important to impart into those evangelists?

Mark Swiger (17:28):
Well, of course they need to have the relationship with Jesus Christ. I would say one thing very important in my own life too. It’s been to to have a prayer life and the importance of speaking in other tongues, this cannot be overemphasized in your devotional life. The apostle Paul said, I, I speak in tons more than you all. And there’s a reason why he need, why he did that. And he needed to, to have an effective ministry and have a worldwide impact as he did. And there’s just so many things that are necessary. So I try to, by God’s grace to speak in tongue of minimum of one hour a day, and that would be the minimum. If you can do more, do more, because it’s a level of prayer that you’re praying what God wants to happen, not just what you want to happen.

Mark Swiger (18:30):
Most of our prayer life, if you examine it, it’s us making a request for God to do this. Please do this, please do this. And we’re, we’re we’re kind of ordering God around. You know, who’s really the servant here. Who’s serving who w from our prayer life. And I began to see in the Bible, it says they serve God with prayers. And I realized, I, I wanna serve God, Lord. I wanna pray what you want me to pray, and I want to serve you in prayer. And I cannot overemphasize give yourself to that and it’ll make a tremendous difference. Be faithful in it. And you’ll have a tremendous difference in your, in your ministry and in your personal life too, is you serve the Lord in prayer, prayer, what he wants you to pray. And then you’re really serving him rather than him just serving you, fulfilling your requests. Amen.

Evangelist Daniel King (19:27):
<Laugh> amen. Well, if someone is listening and they’d like to learn more about your ministry or support your crusades, what is your website? So people can connect with you.

Mark Swiger (19:40):
Well, it’s mark swagger, M a R K, and then swagger like tiger. All one word, S w I G E R, mark, swagger.org or.org. And that’s all they need to know or Google mark swagger. And I usually come up number one in the Googles, cuz there’s not too many mark swaggers around.

Evangelist Daniel King (20:04):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast. I appreciate it.

Mark Swiger (20:11):
Thank you. My dear friend and powerful evangelist, Daniel King honored to be with you.

Evangelist Daniel King (20:18):
Amen.

Evangelist Daniel King (20:19):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the evangelism podcast on apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with king ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (21:38):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.

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Benny Moses | Evangelism in the Villages of India

Evangelist Benny Moses explains how he reaches people for Jesus in the villages of India.

 

Transcript: 

Benny Moses (00:04):
My name is Benny Moses from Hyderabad, India. I’m an evangelist when I was very young, 20 years old, I, I don’t know anything about emissions. Some of them, my brothers, who came to my church, who was doing evangelism and asked me to join with them a couple of days, I took her off my work and joined with them, and I started to distribute tract and sell literature and share the gospel the way I know. But these brothers are enraged. Me. The Lord has called you for ministry. And I resent my job when I was 20 years old and joined with an, a mission organization and getting a training, how to share the gospel while I’m I’m doing my ministry. I attended a, a, a Koolaid where one brother from Australia sharing about the lost ones. And the Lord started to speak to me from a ation chapter, three words, 27.

Benny Moses (00:58):
And through that word, I confirmed the Lord has called me to be an evangelist. And I’ve been doing that one last 33 years, even though I was working with the different organizations as an administrator or leader, but still my heart was the least the lost one. Therefore I made a programs, not not to people to work to reach the last one in, in India. I I like evangelism in two ways. One is a personal evangelism. Another one is a house to house visa evangelism. Plus we can do open evangelism, some villages in India. I go to different churches and call the villages for two days of training program. And I train them how to share the gospel, how to share the testimony. And I divide them by two by two and send to the villages and they go house to house and share about the faith.

Benny Moses (01:51):
And the method I use is of five points. God man, sin, Jesus, and judgment. And you can explain full gospel using these five points and they will do they’ll go to house to house and share the gospel in this method and share the testimony also how they come to know the law. I went to a church and of course the pastor together, 15 ERs. After that training, I give them a goal for reaching five people for a year, each one, catch five. They went back to their re places. Along with the job. They start to share the gospel with the colleagues using these five points of methods and they want to, they started to come to the church and within three months, 45 people added to the church. And within one year around 75 people came to the church and one man as a pastor cannot bring these 75 people.

Benny Moses (02:50):
But when he trained 15 billers, they brought these billers to the church. A great revival and pastor was extremely happy about it. We have some opposition, some villages, even some houses, they won’t accept us. Some persons, they completely reject. They have a great misunderstanding that Jesus is not a Asian is a Western God. And therefore some places we have a great system. And if I do have full calls for Bible colleges, I cover 15 subjects, church planning, church growth, introduction to the gospel part is a message of gospel. The method of gospel, the qualification of evangelist, the how to get out of the fear and shy of sharing the gospel. Door-To-Door evangelism, personal evangelism, Ary, evangelism, literature, evangelism. And I covered this subject five days in Bible college. But if I do for <inaudible>, I do it for two days, that seminar is just for how to share the gospel.

Benny Moses (03:55):
They only need to know how to start, how to end, how to approach a person, how to begin sharing the gospel. Sometime people share their testimony in the beginning and share the gospel. Sometime after sharing the gospel, they share their testimony and they ask them to come to the church and people just to come to the church to listen the word of God, strain them these five methods points. They know how to share. Therefore, the shy is not there. Fear is not there because they know the methods. The most of them are, did not know the methods. Once they learn the method, they don’t fear. They say you have a life, which is God wants to use for your is glory. And you, now we can do it because boldness, because you know how to start an out end in that way, I encourage them.

Benny Moses (04:42):
And I tell them each believer call to be an evangelist because Bible says, go, Jesus said to his disabled, go and make a discipl. It’s not for only the pastor, but for every believer, everyone who knows Jesus Christ personally, they can share, but did not know how to start, how to end, but the methods help them to get rid of the fear and shine. The main things. The believers has a very negative idea that this share in the gospel is a duty of a pastor. It’s not my duty. Therefore I want to delete that thought from the mind and train them to share the gospel and they can do wherever they are placed. Maybe they’re government office, maybe in a private company, maybe they’re doing daily wages wherever they are. They can share the gospel. In that way, more believers can be trained and more believers can share the gospel.

Benny Moses (05:34):
In that way, the India can be reached train believers for evangelism. I made a program called beep believers, evangelism, equipping program, acute them for the evangelism, a equipping means, train them up. How to start, how to approach a person, how to share your testimony. And when they are, when we train believers, definitely without fear and shy, they’ll be able to win the souls. That is the main method I feel. And this person, because India has a lot of oppositions and lot of problems, we cannot have big, big Cru sets in India, but still we can have it. But I, I believe that more believers need to come for this ministry as not as a full-time ministry, but along with the job they can do it. Evangelism is the only best to work in a Christian work Christian ministry. You can do, you can do anything. There’s nothing wrong on that. But under, unless you see the last world, if you are not having a vision, your ministry has not success.

Benny Moses (06:46):
Success of your ministry is reaching the lost world. The Lord gave me a vision to start a mobile team. Well, team have one automobile vehicle with the Cuban of public’s addressing system, LCD projector for a film show, maybe little vessels for cooking. And they go to we can have a two people on the team. They go to a local church, maybe where there’s a 50 or 60 billers and they can stay in that in the church. Before beginning the ministry, I will go and train the billers, how to share the gospel billers. Evangel. Doesn’t make you in program and billers can join the team and go to different villages, go house to house person, to person and share the gospel evening. They can screen the film man of conversion, which acted by Indians and that through that movie, they can also come communicate the gospel for a day three to five.

Benny Moses (07:48):
Villages can be covered in a short time and per a month around 750 to 800 villages can be covered. If they work 25 days per a month, one year, you may have more than 800 to thousand villages can be covered. I, I, I only need a vehicle. The Lord provided me LCD projector. Maybe I will make it a sponsorship for a public addressing system. I do need a big system, a small system where we can cover a hundred to 200 people. That’s more than enough. Then we can buy some cooking vessels for buds can cook, but most of the churches will provide food for two people. That’s not a big problem. And maybe we need a gas money for a month to run. Then maybe we like to support $7,200 for two brothers who are serving the Lord with us. That’s my vision. If you have a vehicle new brand vehicle, 15 years, we can run without any much problem. I’m guaranteed that 10 years, we don’t need to do any maintenance. Therefore, we, we are safe on spending money with the short money we are reaching millions.

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