1 877-431-4276Kevin Tallaksen | Permeate Evangelism Spreads the Gospel
Kevin Tallaksen is being used by Jesus to reach people in the Northeast of America. He is sharing the Gospel on the streets and training churches to be bold in sharing their faith. Today he shares with us some of the secrets of doing effective street evangelism. As you listen you will learn key questions that help start conversations about God with people from many different religious backgrounds and even those who have no religious background at all.
Learn more about Permeate Evangelism: https://www.permeateevangelism.com/
Summary:
Kevin Tallaksen leads Permeate Evangelism, a ministry focused on creating a culture of evangelism within the church. Tallaksen shares his testimony of how he was radically saved and called to street evangelism, especially in the largely secular Northeast region of the United States. He discusses effective strategies for street evangelism, such as using signs with thought-provoking questions to start conversations and listening to people’s worldviews before sharing the gospel. Tallaksen also describes his approach to training believers to share their faith, focusing on the heart motivation and practical skills for articulating the gospel message. He emphasizes the importance of helping people count the cost of following Christ rather than just pressuring them to pray a quick prayer.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Kevin Tallaksen is being used by Jesus to reach people in the northeast of America. He is sharing the gospel on the streets and training churches to be bold in sharing their faith. Today he shares with us some of the secrets of doing effective street evangelism. As you listen, you will learn key questions that help start conversations about God with people from many different religious backgrounds, and even those who have no religious background at all.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:47):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:09):
Daniel King. Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Kevin Tallakson. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Kevin Tallaksen (01:25):
Yeah, thank you for having me. Super excited. Love evangelism and love what you’re doing of getting the word out.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:31):
Well, you lead a great ministry called Permeate Evangelism. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do at permeate?
Kevin Tallaksen (01:41):
Yeah, so permeate evangelism, our desire is to create a culture of evangelism within the church. And a lot of times in the culture is, oh, just invite ’em to church or the pastor or the evangelist will share the gospel. But we believe in Ephesians four where the evangelist is actually partially to equip the church. And so we’re trying to create every believer to be on mission and to be sharing the gospel in their everyday life. And we do that through three areas. The first is trainings, in-person trainings, how to share the gospel in everyday life. We do that at a lot of churches and groups. We have a training coming up in New Jersey this week with over a hundred people, 16 churches represented. So we’re excited that God’s taking territory in that sense. We also do social media content, different trainings, how to share your faith, examples of street evangelism. And then the last thing that we do is we go and do, we do evangelism together. I believe, and we can go more into this, but street evangelism is not for everyone. I don’t want everyone to be street evangelists, but it’s a great place for people to learn how to share the gospel on the streets. Then they’ll see, wow, this is powerful, this is simple. I’ll go do it at my workplace. So I almost see it as a training ground in addition to the impact that it has to unsaved people as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:05):
That’s amazing. Well, let’s start kind of by talking some about your testimony. Kind of tell me where you came from, how Jesus saved you, and then how you found out that you were called by God to be involved in evangelism.
Kevin Tallaksen (03:21):
Amen. Alright, so I grew up in a church. My dad was an elder, good solid biblical church. Heard the gospel many times. I was turned off by, got into some drugs, drinking, partying in high school, planned to do that in college. But my parents were like, you need to go on this one mission trip. And I was like, I hate God, why would I do that? But the people on that trip impacted me the way they love Jesus. I was like, whatever they have I want. And lo and behold, they told me as Jesus read the Bible, really impactful conversion experience at age 18, God really just completely transformed my life from drunkenness and he freed me from that addiction on the spot. And I went and told my friends. So from the early age, my first time I got, when I got converted, I basically said, look, I got to follow Jesus and I can’t do that stuff anymore.
(04:16):
And I went and told my friends. So it was almost from the first day, go and tell someone. But then about three weeks later I got baptized and I went off to college and I got mentored by a fantastic pastor and also a street evangelist. And I always tell people I got ruined by the street of evangelists. And so I was on the street sharing the gospel within probably two months. But one thing that’s really impactful to me with evangelism, about three months after I got saved, I was playing ping pong with a Chinese student at my college. I love ping pong. And I was like, Hey man, do you know who Jesus is? Because he just radically changed my life. It’s like, who’s that? And he had no idea. And so that really drove me. So many people, not only in America but around the world, don’t know Jesus.
(05:02):
And so that stuck with me with that. So long story short, I went into was continuing to do evangelism, teaching Bible studies, leading youth groups, was an elder at my church, always had a passion for evangelism. But it came to a point about five years after I got saved, I was doing a lot of apologetics and I felt I was convicted. I was not sharing the gospel, I was just trying to win debates. I was like, okay, let’s reel this back. But also I was like, I’m here with one person or two people sharing the gospel. What if I got 10 people to come out with me? And so that’s what stirred me about 10 years ago. I need to get other people sharing the gospel that’s much more effective than just one person. So then I started doing a lot of trainings and God kept increasing the work even though I was just simply doing what the Bible said and just showed that God was in it. And that’s when permeate was born about a year and a half ago where God’s like and people telling like, you got to do this. And so that’s where we’re at today. A little bit of a high level overview.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:05):
Now you’re on the east coast of the United States and it really is a mission field. A lot of people think of the great awakenings that happened over there in New England and that day is long passed. It’s very secular. And so you’re interacting with people that really need Jesus. Tell us some of the experience of your interactions and what you’ve seen God do.
Kevin Tallaksen (06:33):
Yeah, it’s a great clarification because America is obviously huge. It’s almost multiple countries within, and really the northeast, there’s not many believers. My mentor, and we always talk about probably less than five, maybe 10%, but probably less than 5% are believers and following Jesus. And so it gives you an idea that there’s not many what we’ve seen and especially college campuses. I really believe that’s an important time period to look at and it shows where the culture is and also where it’s going. It’s been shocking. I would say about half of the people that I talk to when I ask the question, do you know who Jesus is? And the way we approach it, I do questions rather than just preaching at them. About half the people don’t know who Jesus is, or maybe if they’ve heard of him, which most do, they really can’t tell what he did or really more detail of why he did what he did. And so I really believe it’s an unreached people group in the Northeast in a lot of ways that the urgency needs to be to get there. But I really believe in what permeate is doing is such a small thing of God’s greater work. I’m seeing churches realize we need to get outside these walls and share the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so I am so excited. I think the harvest is truly plentiful in the Northeast.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:59):
Amen. You are right in the middle of the harvest field. So you’ve been doing a lot of street ministry and usually when people have an idea of a street evangelist, they picture someone who has a megaphone and they’re yelling in people’s faces, is that what you’re doing? Or what strategies are you using when you’re going out in the street to do evangelism?
Kevin Tallaksen (08:24):
And as flip one 18, Paul’s like whatever the motive is, as long as they’re preaching the gospel, great. But what I’ve seen in the Northeast, as soon as you have a megaphone and stuff, people usually tune you out. So what we’re trying to be creative, so our most common strategy is to have signs with questions. I really believe in evangelism. We need to use words we need to proclaim, but there’s also scriptures that we need to listen and understand. And so we have questions such as what percentage of people are good? People love judging morality or what is the purpose of life? Or we have this sign where it says two words, two words to describe your life. And God, what I’ve seen is let people share what they believe, what their worldview is. I listen intently caring about what they say, and then when you can listen well, you gain a trust. And then I can proclaim the gospel. I can connect what they are saying to what Jesus in the Bible says. And we’re seeing people come so much further in the walks and their conversations. And if we were just preaching at them, there’s times I street preach, there’s times where it’s effective. But by and large, if we can listen first and communicate to people where they’re at, it’s been so much more effective as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:42):
I really love that in the Constitution we are guaranteed the right to free speech. And so we have the freedom to speak, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that people will listen. And so in order to get someone to listen, you really have to show that you care. Someone said one time that people don’t care how much until they know how much you care. And so really by listening to someone, you can meet them at the point of their need with what they need at this moment from God. And then as you listen, you show that you care and then you can quietly direct them in the way that the Holy Spirit leads you towards God. So as you’re listening to people on the streets there in Northeast America, what are some of the things that people are saying? What are some of the concerns that people are talking about?
Kevin Tallaksen (10:38):
So definitely still in this culture, there’s a culture that a lot of people still go to church when they’ve grown up. So that hasn’t left completely, but there’s definitely a lot of church hurt, if you will, of a misunderstanding and bad experiences. So we talked through that. One of the main questions too is why does God allow suffering, especially in the world environment, we see the starving people. The war is why does God allow it? Where is God? And so we can communicate about that. We have some, I think effective approaches to that as well. A lot of people also don’t believe in absolute truth. And so this is important. If we just went right to Jesus and say, Jesus is true, or Jesus is good and kind and loving and forgiving, they say, well, that’s nice for you but not for me. And so what I have to start with before going to the gospel is, do you believe that there’s one absolute truth or is it up to each person? And so this relativism is very rampant within our society. And I would argue not just in the Northeast, I’ve been to other parts of the country that before we get to Jesus talk about that this truth that I’m communicating to you is not just for me because it changed me. It’s for all people. And so reasoning with them that absolute truth is a thing, and then this Jesus is the way, the truth, the life. So relativism is very rampant.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:09):
And when someone starts asking questions from that type of worldview, what are some of the things that you say to bring them to the truth of Jesus?
Kevin Tallaksen (12:20):
So with the relativism, I just let them repeat after themselves of, and I ask them, how does that make sense if someone else disagrees? What if someone has a different view of morality? And they’re like, we really don’t know. And so a lot of it is not me with a zinger that has this answer, it’s reasoning and asking them why and what leads you to believe that and to show them examples of that. So I think that’s the first thing. And then I tell them, look, the relativist worldview is actually not rational. And most people would disagree because if their best friend was murdered, they would absolutely and objectively say that that was wrong. And so I try not to go that extreme, but sometimes we do. And then I tell them, look, there is an objective standard of morality. There is an objective truth and it is God.
(13:15):
And then I go through the gospel asking them who Jesus is. I ask him about what his repentance and belief mean. And it’s amazing that people that came up and were basically arguing relativism, they don’t even question it because we led them to show that it’s irrational and we led them to the gospel. And I’m seeing people just completely undone after sharing the gospel. So it’s not like I have this perfect worldview like argument. It’s I just presented the gospel in Romans one 16. The gospel is the power of God. And so my thing is show them the holes in their worldview that it doesn’t make sense, and then bring them to the gospel that transforms their minds and ultimately their heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:02):
Another component of what you do is training believers to share their faith with others. And you mentioned that you’re about to do a training at a church in New Jersey. Walk us through that. What would you tell members of a church that would help them encourage them to share their faith and then help them to get over any fears or hindrances and then giving them what they should say? Kind of walk us through the whole
Kevin Tallaksen (14:33):
Process. Yeah, absolutely. The first thing, first and foremost, we talk about the heart because I really believe evangelism is an overflow of the heart. It shouldn’t be just because we have to or whatever. So we talk about openly, why do we not share the gospel? Most times it’s fears of different things, but I have people talk about it within tables and we take polls so everyone sees, oh wait, we’re all scared. And I think that lessens it of it’s not just me, it’s all of us. And then we talk about the whys, the commandments and all that. But one of my favorite passages that I love to go through, two Corinthians five, that we share about the fear of God, and I don’t believe we should just not fear. We should redirect our fear of others and of even our pride and all these things redirect.
(15:23):
And if we fear God, like Isaiah and Isaiah six where he fell down his feet, what did Jesus respond with? He touched his lips and said, go and I’ll give you words. And so fearing I don’t tell people, don’t be scared, just man up or whatever. I say, look, fear God. And then second Corinthians five, it says, the love of Christ compels us. And so this is not a fear that drives us away, but drives us towards God. And then the two Corinthians five, it also says that we are ambassadors. We have no power in and of ourselves to save people, but we are the sending party, the sending entity being God has all the power that we would ever want or need. And so similar to an ambassador from us going to another country, they’re just usually a business guy, but because they have the sending entity power, that’s where it is.
(16:14):
So we start with the heart issue, that process, then we go through the practical of how to articulate the gospel. I’m convinced most Christians don’t know how to articulate the gospel, the true gospel. And I’ve asked many, many Christians, most don’t know. And then we go to how to start conversations, answering the common tough questions. So equipping them. We do different breakouts on different world religions as well. Really what my mindset is with training is yes, there’s place for deep apologetics. I love talking through that. But the majority of Christians, they just need to be taught the basics of the gospel, the heart of it, and the next steps. They don’t need to be taught mind stuff. They need to be empowered and encouraged by the Holy Spirit and the gospel. So that’s a little bit of how we approach it. Of course, it looks different at every church and training, but that’s a little bit of how we approach.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:11):
You mentioned that often people have trouble articulating the gospel. Could you share the gospel with us? How do you present the gospel?
Kevin Tallaksen (17:22):
Sure, yeah. And there’s not one transcript or way you approach it, but I like to start from the beginning, the creation that God created us, and it was good that he created us for relationship with God. Adam and Eve then rebelled, sinned against God, and so do we. We’ve all lied, stolen, and the result of that is the fall and death and ultimately hell, that we are separated from God as Isaiah 59, 2 says, but God in his love and sent Jesus, who is fully God, fully man, lived the perfect life preaching good news, he came ultimately to die in our place for our sins. Not only dying for our sins, but rising from the dead, proving that he is God, proving that he is conquered our sins and conquered and satisfied the judgment of God. He calls all men and women to repent change of heart and mind towards believing in Christ alone for forgiveness. That is not by works, that we are saved, but by grace through faith. Then not only that, he adopts us as his sons and daughters, and one day will be glorified in heaven forever and we’ll inherit eternal life. And so that’s in a nutshell, a couple of the key features of the gospel that I believe are important.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:36):
That’s wonderful. And it’s beautiful. It’s always wonderful to hear the gospel presented. Okay. What are some of the different hesitancy that people would have about witnessing and how do you help them to overcome those fear?
Kevin Tallaksen (18:54):
Yeah, would you say specifically about street evangelism or just witnessing in general?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:59):
Let’s do both. I mean, street evangelism probably people are intimidated about going out in a wild arena just to talk about many different faiths.
Kevin Tallaksen (19:11):
So with street evangelism, what I’ve seen is I just tell people, you don’t have to say one word, just come. The only thing I ask is sit behind me and pray I need it. What I’ve seen from that is incredible. Not everyone jumps in and starts talking. I just remember one engineer guy, not a street evangelist guy, he just sat behind and listened. He was like, that was incredible. And he went back to his workplace and he shared the gospel with 10 of his coworkers in two weeks, multiple went to Bible studies all because he heard just some evangelism taking place in the simplicity and power of it. So street evangelism, the way I get people to come out is listen first and let the Lord do the rest with every day evangelism. I really believe teaching that heart of evangelism and redirecting our fear to God helps, but also giving testimony examples.
(20:06):
I am even working with some pastors of sharing at church services, examples of church members sharing the gospel just to encourage, wait, that person did it. I can do it too. So that encouragement, but also very helpful tools. So I have this business card even of starting spiritual conversations that people seem to really like that it’s just like 10 questions front and back with some explanation of simple questions like, what’s your spiritual background? You can ask that to anyone. And so giving some tools to help people start conversations. I’ve seen help people to share the gospel in everyday life, but it’s not like if you go to a training, it’ll be great. It takes time. We do a training at churches every year like refreshers and stuff. And so changing a culture and a mindset, it takes time, but it’s worth the lift. It’s worth the time because this is the great commission.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
So you mentioned your card with 10 questions. What are some of the other questions that are good for opening up spiritual conversations?
Kevin Tallaksen (21:13):
Yeah, so what’s your spiritual background’s, Greg? Because no one’s going to be offended at that. Have you ever thought about eternity? And so again, the questions are designed to be open-ended so they can share their view or also like, Hey, I really believe in prayer. Can I pray for you in any way? So again, that simple. But then some of the indirect ones, those are spiritually direct. I’ve actually found the simple question of what did you do? This weekend is not spiritual at all. I was in corporate America for 10 years, and I would just ask that for people and I would share, Hey, yeah, I hung out with friends, watched some sports, and I went to church on Sunday. It was awesome. It’s amazing when you just mentioned about your faith that it’s important to you. People are perked and you can tell without asking a spiritual question that they want to learn more.
(22:07):
And they’ll ask maybe, oh, what church do you go to? Or, oh, I used to go to church. And then it’s a total open door. So we try to ask questions that are open-ended, listening to them, getting to know them genuinely, and then bridging that to the gospel and spiritual conversations. One of the biggest things with evangelism in everyday life is you have to be intentional about praying for it, about being aware of your surroundings, listening well, and God is so good at giving us doors to walk through. We just need to be bold and looking at the door to walk through it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:45):
How do you feel about bringing people to a point of decision where you’re asking them to pray with you for salvation or to make a commitment to follow God?
Kevin Tallaksen (22:57):
Yeah, there’s a lot of different views on that, and I think there’s grace in it for us personally, especially with street evangelism. I’ve seen it done where a lot of people just, just repeat after me pray. Not that that’s bad and it doesn’t invalidate a salvation because it can do that. What I’ve seen is a lot of people say yes because they want to end the conversation, and there’s sometimes a wrong motivation from the evangelist that, oh, I got another number. So what we try to do is challenge them to count the cost, read the Bible, plug them into Bible studies. And we’ve seen that effective in real converts, not only converts, but disciples. The great commission doesn’t say to make converts to disciples, but at the same time, we have to be careful to not make it hard to enter the kingdom of God.
(23:43):
So we do have seen people saved even on the streets, but one guy, I remember last year at the boardwalk in New Jersey, we shared the gospel. He was literally just crying as we were talking about Jesus. So I was like, something’s up with this guy in a good way. And he was saying, I’ve heard people that were Christians, but I never knew the message. And he’s like, this is what I’ve been looking for. And so what I did, I said, look man, I’m going to pray for you, and I would challenge you to pray to God yourself based on what you heard. I prayed over him, prayed that the Lord would fill with his Holy Spirit. He then prayed and it was the most simple non-Christian East prayer, but it was so genuine. And I really believe that if we’ve been faithful in preaching the gospel effectively, they will know what to say to God. And so giving them space to pray, but without forcing them or kind of putting this unneeded pressure on them, and again, there’s grace and other methods, but that’s our view on that is, yes, God can save immediately, but let’s share counting the costs and let them in their own heart and mind and words call out, cry out to Jesus because he hears them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:53):
Amen. That’s wonderful. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for sharing on the Evangelism podcast today. If someone wants to find out more about you or to invite permeate evangelism to come to their church, how can they get in touch with you? What’s your website?
Kevin Tallaksen (25:14):
Yeah, so our website is permeate evangelism.com. So simple with that. And then my email is kevin@permeateevangelism.com. We’re also on YouTube X, Instagram, Facebook. So anywhere permeate evangelism is, and like you said, we travel. We’re actually, we are in India. We are going to North Africa to do some training and work. I’m training some African, so we pretty much are global now, and of course in the us. So anything we can do to help spread a culture of evangelism within the church, we want to be there to support the church. We believe in the local church. So glad to talk with anyone that’s interested.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:52):
That’s awesome. Well, I so love your heart, Kevin, and thank you so much for sharing about reaching people.
Kevin Tallaksen (26:01):
Amen. And thank you for your heart and your work in the kingdom of God. And we pray that more people will come to know Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:08):
Amen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (26:09):
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Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:13):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review By giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (28:33):
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Ray Comfort | So Many Lions, So Few Daniels
Ray Comfort is a Christian evangelist and author who is known for his efforts to evangelize and defend the Christian faith. He is the founder and CEO of Living Waters, a ministry that focuses on evangelism and apologetics, and he is the co-host of the television program “The Way of the Master,” which teaches believers how to share the gospel with others.
Comfort was born in New Zealand in 1949 and became a Christian at the age of 18. He has written numerous books on the Christian faith, including “God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists,” “Hell’s Best Kept Secret,” and “Evolution: The Fairy Tale for Grownups.”
Comfort is known for his controversial and confrontational approach to evangelism and he is a significant figure in the world of Christian evangelism and apologetics. He often uses the Ten Commandments to share the Gospel. His YouTube channel has over 200,000,000 views.
On today’s Evangelism Podcast I Ray Comfort him some difficult questions about his theology, let’s hear how he answers them…
Learn more about Ray Comfort and the Living Waters Ministry: https://livingwaters.com/
Questions for Ray Comfort:
You have written over 100 books. What is unique about “So Many Lions, So Few Daniels”?
Let’s talk through a couple of scenarios of how you present the Gospel to people:
- You meet a guy on the street who loves to party. He is drinking and cussing. What do you say to him?
- You are affectionately known by atheists as “Banana Man” because of an illustration you once gave using a banana. You meet a girl who says she is an atheist. What do you say to her about her belief in evolution?
Why do you focus so much on the Ten Commandments in your witnessing?
I have two big questions about how you witness. The first big question is in how you begin your conversation and the second big question is in how you end your conversations.
- When you start witnessing, you usually emphasize the sinfulness of humanity instead of talking about the love of God. Bill Bright, who founded Campus Crusade for Christ, taught people to witness using the Four Spiritual Laws which starts with the idea that “God Loves You and He has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life.” Romans 2:4 says “The goodness of God leads you to repentance.” So why do you emphasize the law of God instead of the goodness of God?
- After you present the Gospel, I never see you ask people to pray a prayer of salvation. Why don’t you close the deal? Why don’t you pray a prayer of salvation with people or give altar calls? What is a false conversion?
The name of your TV program is “The Way of the Master.” When Jesus walked the earth, He healed lots of sick people so if you really want to follow the way of the Master, what role should miracles play in the ministry of the evangelist? When Philip the Evangelist preached in Samaria, many people were healed. Do you believe that God can use physical healing in order to draw people to Jesus?
Your first book is “Hell’s Best Kept Secret.” You are quite critical of large evangelistic meetings led by evangelists like Billy Graham and Luis Palau. You emphasize that with modern evangelistic methods, 80% of the people who are reported to be saved end up backsliding. What do you think is the solution to this problem?
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
His YouTube channel has over 200 million views. Ray Comfort is a Christian evangelist and author who is known for his efforts to evangelize and defend the Christian faith. He’s the founder and c e o of Living Waters, a ministry that focuses on evangelism and apologetics. And he’s the co-host of the television program, the Way of the Master, which teaches believers how to share the gospel with others. He was originally born in New Zealand. He became a Christian at the age of 18, and he’s written over a hundred books, including God Doesn’t Believe In Atheist, hell’s Best Kept Secret and Evolution, the Fairytale for Growing Up. Today we talk about his new book called So Many Lions, so Few Daniels Comfort is known for his controversial and confrontational approach to evangelism. He often uses the 10 Commandments to share the gospel. On today’s evangelism podcast, I ask Ray Comfort some difficult questions about his theology. Let’s hear how he answers my questions.
Evangelism Podcast Host (01:22):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
Welcome to The Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Ray Comfort. He is a phenomenal YouTube evangelist, over 200 million views on his YouTube channel. He goes out on the streets and tells people about Jesus. Brother, comfort, thank you so much for being with me today.
Ray Comfort (02:13):
It’s an honor to be with you, Daniel. Thanks to having me on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:16):
Man, I have learned so much from your ministry over the years. I’ve watched many of your YouTube videos. I’ve been watching you go out on the street and talking to, to people, uh, about the, the 10 Commandments. And, uh, you have just, uh, published a new book. It’s called So Many Lions, so Few Daniels. Now, you’ve published over a hundred books. What is unique about this one?
Ray Comfort (02:47):
Well, it’s, I think it’s a book for our time. We are living in very, very dark times. Let me tell you what inspired me to write the book besides God, A Hope. Um, it was a poster or a t-shirt put out by atheists. It was, uh, too many Christians, not enough lions. And I thought, how sick is that? That’s like saying too many blacks, not enough lynching ropes, too many Jews, not enough Nazis, uh, too many Christians, not enough lions. And that made me really mad. So an atheist inspired the book So Many Lions, so few Daniels, which is what we’ve got. We’re living in a dark time, a time of tremendous godliness, or godlessness, should I say, tremendous darkness. I was just reading this morning, we’ve had something like 37 mass shootings in the us, just this sheriffs, not even the end of the first month of the share.
(03:40):
Um, over 1300 people died through being shot in mass shootings. And it traces it back to traces itself, back to lawlessness. Uh, Jesus said, inequity shall unbound, which means lawlessness. There’s a forsaking of the 10 Commandments. And when you do that, forsake the fear of God. And if you don’t fear God, you can cover what you want, lie to whom you want, steal from whom you want. You can commit adultery, you can blaspheme God’s name, and you can kill people without qualms of conscience because your understanding of God is erroneous. So we need Daniels, uh, men and women of God who will step up to the plate, who will not who’ll be fearless and faithful. You think of what Daniel was. He was a man that didn’t care what the world thought. He wasn’t a man pleaser. Uh, they said, don’t praise flung as windows open, the Bible tells us and said, I don’t care what you think.
(04:30):
I only care what God thinks. And that’s the attitude that we must have as Christians. We don’t care what this world thinks in the sense we don’t want their praise. We want the smile of God. And if you look at what Daniel had, he had faith. That’s all he had. And I take great consolation on the fact that I am not tall. I can’t sing. I can’t dance. Um, there’s a lot of stuff that I was behind the door when the talent was given out, but I can have faith. Anyone can have faith. Doesn’t matter how tall or short you are at gifted, you are how you can jump, how much you can sing. You can have faith, and that’s what Daniel had. And that’s all it takes for God to use. You just trust him with all your heart. And that’s what we need Daniels to step up and be counted.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:11):
Well, since my first name is Daniel, I must say I give a hardy endorsement to this book. I think we do need more Daniels. And, uh, of course, growing up as a little boy, Daniel was always my hero, uh, being thrown into the lion’s den. And often when you go out and talk to people about Jesus, it feels like you are being thrown into a lion’s den because the people start to yell at you, cuss you out. They they have all these questions, and that’s something that you do on a regular basis. And so I was wondering if we could walk through a few scenarios of what you say to people when you’re out witnessing. And you have lots of these in the book, different interviews you have with people. But uh, let’s say you’re, you go out on the street in Huntington Beach and you meet a guy who, he’s got tattoos all over. He having a party, he wants to party, he’s got a, a beer in one hand, and he is cussing people out. What do you say to him about God?
Ray Comfort (06:16):
You know, I’m gonna share something with you. I’ve never shared with anyone because it just happened this morning. This morning. My daughter and a husband, Emils Wayne Ey, the president of our ministry were woken at 5:00 AM by a guy ringing the doorbell. He wearing a hoodie, was dark, then he came round to the window of their bedroom and just stood there. And my daughter was terrified. Her daughter was terrified, easy flung up in the window and says, what do you want? And you know what, it was a guy who had smelt smoke coming from their house. Their wiring had got something wrong with it, and he came and put that fire out. And so if, if someone wakes you at five o’clock in the morning, you’re gonna be kind of annoyed with them and till you smell the smoke, and suddenly that annoyance turns to absolute gratitude.
(07:04):
This guy became a hero. And so this morning, when I go around the local college, which I do twice a day, take my dog on a bike, I’m gonna say to someone, how would you feel if someone woke you up at five o’clock in the morning banging on your doorbell? You’d say, what, what? What does this guy want? He’s really annoying me. But when you smell the smoke, your annoyance will change to gratitude. So I’m gonna take you through the commandments and what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna be annoyed with me banging on your door. But as we go through, you’re gonna smell some smoke and it’s gonna change your attitude. And so when I meet someone with tattoos or somebody who’s a little scary, my agenda is to show him he’s in great danger. It’s not to convince him to give his heart to Jesus because he’s got something missing in his life. The fact is he is in danger of death seizing upon him and his sins dragging him to hell. And that horrifies me. And I want to alert him to his danger. And once he sees his danger, once that makes sense, that he’s in big trouble with the Lord, then the gospel will make sense. So that’s my agenda, and that’s why I’m not fearful because the lions have no teeth. They’re just gums,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:07):
<laugh>. And, and so you would often go straight to the 10 Commandments and, and take people through some of the 10 Commandments. Could could we, uh, role play and, and and, and talk through the, the way that you would
Ray Comfort (08:20):
Offer it? Sure. I’ve done this before with some other guy I used to do a television program with, so I can handle it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:26):
<laugh>. Okay. So, so come up and, and, and pretend like you’re talking to me and, and, uh, let’s, let’s go through what you often say about the 10 Commandments.
Ray Comfort (08:36):
Yeah, sure. Well, let’s do, uh, what I’ll do, what I’m, uh, what I do when I go to the, the local college, say, uh, Hey, would you like to go on YouTube?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:43):
Sure, let’s do it.
Ray Comfort (08:45):
Boy, that’s unusual. Most people say, what’s it about? What’s it about? So I say, it’s a channel over 200 million views. And, uh, I wanna ask you if you think there’s an afterlife, do you think there’s an afterlife?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:55):
Maybe? I don’t know. Who knows? I, I believe there’s an afterlife, but I I wanna play the part of the person that you’re witnessing.
Ray Comfort (09:02):
Yeah. You play the part of a nasty skeptic.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
Yeah. So
Ray Comfort (09:05):
Do you think about it much? What, what, so let me ask you, what’s your name?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:08):
Uh, my name’s Daniel.
Ray Comfort (09:10):
Daniel. Do you think about death?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:12):
Well, I think everyone thinks about death.
Ray Comfort (09:15):
Are you afraid of dying?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:16):
Sure. I think everyone is.
Ray Comfort (09:19):
Yeah, that’s true. The bible actually says that, that every human being is haunted by the fear of death all their lifetime. And that, that, that’s a terrifying thing to think that death is gonna take you and take your loved ones, take a dog, take your grandma, and eventually take you. And it could even come today or tonight. Did you know the Bible tells us that God destroyed death? Did you know that?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:39):
Well, what, what if I don’t believe in the Bible?
Ray Comfort (09:43):
Well, that doesn’t matter. The Bible’s the worst world’s big, biggest selling book of all time. And it’s popular because it answers the great questions that humanity has. It tells us why we are alive, why we die, and what we can do about our biggest problem, death itself. Do you know what death is caused by? I don’t mean hit by a truck, but you dunno what the Bible says. Death actually is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:04):
What? What is death?
Ray Comfort (10:05):
Death is wages. God is paying you in death for your sins. The Bible says the wages of sinners death. Like a judge looks at a criminal that’s murdered multiple people. He says, you’ve earned the death sentence. This is your wages. This is what’s due to you. And Daniel’s sin is so serious in the eyes of a holy God, it’s not in our eyes, but in God’s eyes, it’s so serious. He’s given you the death sentence. The wages of sinner’s death. And your death will be, the ev will be evidence to you that God is deadly serious about sin. I got a question for you. For you, Daniel, do you think God is justified in giving you a death sentence? Are you that evil or do you think you’re a good person? Well,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:40):
You know, I don’t really sin that much. I mean, I’m a pretty good person. I I do what’s good. I, I’d like to, you,
Ray Comfort (10:47):
You said sin that much. What are you talking about? What, what much? You’re talking about you’re lusting after woman looking at pornography. Is that what you mean?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:54):
Well, um, I don’t wanna answer that question.
Ray Comfort (10:57):
<laugh>. So you’re gonna play the fifth. What does that say?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
<laugh> Uhhuh. <affirmative>.
Ray Comfort (11:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Jesus said if you look at a woman in lust for who you commit adultery with her in your hearts. So obviously you’ve got red blood and your veins, and you do what every guy does and look at woman inappropriately. Well, the Bible says you committed adultery when you do that. Yeah. And so we’re beginning to smell the smoke. You know, I’m knocking on your door, making you feel uncomfortable, but the smoke is appearing. Have you lied and stolen?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:23):
Well, I, I mean, maybe a little white lie from time to time.
Ray Comfort (11:27):
What color was it?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:28):
Uh, oh. You know, a white lie. Not, not a serious lie. Just, just a little lie.
Ray Comfort (11:33):
That’s a little lie. Have you ever stolen something, something a little and white?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:36):
Uh, sure. I mean, you know, uh, I stole a pen at, at school one time from, from one of my friends.
Ray Comfort (11:43):
Yeah. The value of that which is steal is irrelevant. If you open my wallet and take $1 out, you’re as much a thief as if you took $15 out. And so, Daniel, oh, have you ever used God’s name in vain?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:55):
Well, beepity beep beep beep. <laugh> <laugh>.
Ray Comfort (12:00):
Do you know, you just confirmed the truth of the Bible when it says you’re an enemy of God in your mind, through wicked works, there’s no greater contempt you can show of someone than to use their name as a cuss word. And that’s what you’ve done on the name of God, the one that gave you life in a family and eyesight and hearing and all the blessings of this life. So here’s a summation. Let’s ever again smell the smoke. Daniel, you have told me you’re relying thieving blas, adult at heart, and you have to face God on judgment day. Are you gonna be innocent or guilty when he judges you by the commandments?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:31):
Well, I guess anyone who is judged by the commandments would say that they’re guilty,
Ray Comfort (12:38):
Are you going to heaven or hell?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:41):
Well, if you’re guilty, I guess God would send you to hell.
Ray Comfort (12:44):
Yeah. So we can smell the smoke. So I’m not your adversary banging on your door. I’m someone that cares about you and wants to see you save. The Bible actually likens what I’m doing to saving someone from fire. It says in the book of Jo, uh, Jude, others save with fear, pulling them, pulling them from the fire. You are so close to death in hell. And I’m trying to pull you to safety now. And then I preach the cross that Christ died for our sins, took the punishment for us, rose again on the third day. And I say, Daniel, you need to repent. Trust Christ cuz you can die tonight. And so often people say, yeah man, this is making me think.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:22):
Yeah, it’s, it’s so powerful. And especially I love appreciate the cross. Uh, that’s the, the, the core of the gospel message. Let let’s do a, a another scenario. Um, what would you say to atheists if you meet a a a girl who, uh, says that she’s an atheist, she doesn’t believe in God. And, uh, atheists actually have a nickname for you. They affectionately call you the, the banana man because of a, I don’t know
Ray Comfort (13:48):
If it’s affectionately <laugh>, they mockingly
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:51):
Mockingly and uh, you know, from an illustration that you gave, uh, about a banana. And so they’ve, uh, made fun of you for that. But it’s opened the door for you to share the gospel with many atheists. And, and so what are some of the things that you say to atheists to make them think about heaven and hell and about whether there really is a God?
Ray Comfort (14:13):
Well, there’s a very, very simple way to make atheist s backslide. You just have to ask this one question, and you have to be very clear what you mean by it. I say, so Frieda, you’re an atheist. She says, yeah. So tell me this, Frieda, do you really believe the, the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything, because that’s what an atheist defaults to it. Either God created everything or nothing, created everything. I’m not saying you believe there was nothing in the beginning. I’m saying you believe that nothing was the force that created flowers and birds and trees and puppies and kittens and seasons and fruits and all these things that we see around us were all created nothing, which is scientifically ludicrous. Is that what you believe? And she’ll say, well, well, I I really, I I don’t believe that nothing created things. So I’ll say, you’re not an atheist.
(15:02):
You’re an agnostic. You think something created everything just wasn’t the God of the Bible. She says, yeah, that’s what I believe. Something did create everything, but it just wasn’t the God of the Bible. So I said, let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be the God of the Bible. And you find out that she’s living in fornication and lying and stealing and blaspheming. And it’s not an intellectual issue, it’s the moral issue. But it’s so important Daniel not to be condescending and, uh, to have a tone where, where your love is evident for this person. And your concern is evident because many years ago I was woken by a friend. The building that, that our ministry was in was, uh, on fire. And he called me at 6:00 AM woke me and said, Ray, the Regent Theater building’s on fire. And I believed because of his tone, because of the, the, the way he told me that it was on fire. And if we want sinners to believe us, we must have a caring tone. We mustn’t be cond or accusatory, but just say, Hey, I love you. I don’t want you to end up and help. Please think about what we’re talking about.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:05):
How do you show love to people as you’re, as you’re talking to them about God? Because sometimes there’s this perception of an evangelist being out there on the street corner with a megaphone just yelling at people and saying, you’re all going to hell. And it tends to turn people off. They, they stand, they mock it. And and I know if you’ve been mocked many times and confronted every different situation, but how do you turn that from, uh, machi to people understanding you’re really concerned for their eternal destiny?
Ray Comfort (16:41):
Yeah. Uh, I, i amate Jesus, uh, when he spoke to the Rich Un ruler, he used the moral law, the 10 Commandments. 10 commandments called the Moral Law. He used the 10 Commandments bring the knowledge of sin. When you do that, it makes hell reasonable. Remember, Paul preached to Felix and the Bible says he reasoned with him of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come. And Felix trembled, he trembled. Why? Because judgment made sense. So if you just yell at people from a distance and just say, you’re gonna hell, it doesn’t make sense. It’s just horrible. But if you open up those commandments and show sin is exceedingly sinful in the eyes of God, suddenly hell becomes reasonable. But that makes them tremble. That’s when they see your motives as motive is one of deep concern. You’re knocking on the door because the house is on fire.
(17:32):
And then that’s when they see that you really do care about them. And that’s when the gospel makes sense. So often, I, well not often, every time I witnesses someone, I give them a couple of $5, uh, gift cards. That is, that gives me great joy. Um, today I’ll go around and probably I’ll find five or I’m gonna sneeze. Please forgive me. No, I’m not. Five or six people will turn me down. Um, when I ask if they’ll come on camera and say, I’ll give you a couple of, uh, $5 in and out cards, which is the, the neatest, uh, burger place in Southern California. And they say, no, I still wanna do it. So that’s when I say, here’s the cards anyway. And they go, what? I didn’t do the interview. I said, no problem. I just really care about you. And I give ’em a little card with the channel and people just yell out, I’m gonna check your channel. I really am. Thank you so much for the cards. It changes everything. And the scripture says, so is the will of God that by your well, well-doing, you put the silence, the ignorance of foolish men. So it’s really good to have gift cards or something you can give to someone just to show that you are not caring about them just with lip surface. You really do care about them from your heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:41):
And your ministry has a lot of resources that people are able to, to give away. Uh, yesterday my son was enamored with your $1 million bill. And, uh, I was going to hold it up, but he took it to school this morning to go show some other boys the million dollar bill. And so your ministry, uh, living Waters has some, some great resources for people to, to give away to people different, uh, uh, ways to catch their attention and illusions and, and, and different little ways to, to present the gospel. They all bring people, uh, to the 10 Commandments. Um, I I have a couple of of tough questions about how you witnessed w would it be okay if I ask these these questions to you?
Ray Comfort (19:24):
Please do
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:25):
So, I’m an evangelist. I felt ever since I was very young that I was called to be an an evangelist. And so I’ve, I’ve, uh, spent my life telling as many people about Jesus as I can and studying evangelism and trying to become a, a, a better evangelist. And, and I have some challenges with the way that you start and some challenges with the way that you finish your conversations, right? And so, like the way that you, you start, you really emphasize the sinfulness of humanity instead of talking about the love of God. Bill Bright, who founded Campus Crusade for Christ, he often taught people to witness using the four spiritual laws. And he would start out by saying, “God loves you and he has a wonderful plan for your life.” And Romans 2:4 says, “it’s the goodness of God that draws men to repentance.” And just talked about the power of, of giving something to someone. And, and so, uh, you know, I I think it it in my theology, I I think in some ways it’s better to start with the goodness of God, the love of God, God’s the love the world that He gave his only son in, instead of focusing on the convincing people that they are sinners. And, and so what I I what what’s your response to, to those challenges?
Ray Comfort (20:52):
Okay, don’t let me forget Roman’s chapter two. Are these your convictions or are they just what you’ve heard?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:58):
Usually when I talk to people about Jesus, I start with, “Jesus is so good. He came to give us life and life more abundantly. He’s got a wonderful plan for your life. I I think people inherently believe that they’re sinners.
Ray Comfort (21:18):
Okay, let’s stop there so I can pick up what you’re saying cuz it’s so good. Yeah. Firstly, the Bible says there is none that understands. There’s none that sticks after God. It’s very important to imitate Jesus and do what Jesus did. And so whenever you see Jesus witnessing to someone who’s proud, arrogant, self-righteous, he always used the moral law to bring the knowledge of sin. And if it was someone who was humble of heart, like Nicodemus, who was a Jew that knew the law, it would give them grace. It’s very similar to a man who’s got a disease that’s gonna kill him, but he thinks he’s healthy. I would be an unwise doctor to give him the cure first because he’s not gonna appreciate and appropriate the the cure. He’s gonna say, I’m healthy. I don’t need your stupid cure. A wise doctor will show him x-rays. He’ll say, look at these x-rays, this poisonous seeping through your body. He wants to make the patient sweat to be concerned that his life is in danger. And when he says, well, what should I do? That’s when he gives him the cure. If he gives him the cure first, he is not gonna appreciate it nor appropriate it. And let’s go to the wonderful plan.
(22:27):
If you really think being a Christian is a wonderful plan, lean down to Stephen as he’s being stoned to death and say, part of God’s wonderful plan, or James, as his head is cut off with a sword, or Paul as he was beaten in stoned for his faith or the 12 apostles, 11 of which were murdered for their faith. Or read Fox’s book of martyrs and see that the wonderful plan isn’t things go better with Jesus. Jesus doesn’t give happiness, he gives righteousness. That’s what sinners need. If you really think God is a wonderful plan, I’m gonna give you a scenario. You’re on the thousandth, sorry, the hundredth story of the World Trade Center, September the 10th, 2001, the night before the World Trade Center. And as you look at the vasia faces before you, you know that every one of them is gonna die horrific and horrific deaths.
(23:24):
Some are gonna be burned alive with jet fuel. Others are gonna jump a hundred stories onto the unforgiving sidewalks of New York. Others will follow the building and their bodies will be so crushed they won’t find evidence of them. What are you gonna say to these people? Folks, God has a wonderful plan for your wife. You can’t say that to people who are about to die. No. Instead you’d say, please listen to me. The Bible says this appointed man wants to die. And after this, the judgment. And if you die in your sins, God’s gonna judge you by the perfect law. The Bible says that in Romans two, verse 12 and James two verse 12. That means if you’ve lusted after a woman, you’ve committed adultery in your heart. If you’ve lied all lies of their part in the lake of fire, no thief, no bless fe no adult woman here at God’s kingdom, you’re in terrible trouble.
(24:18):
You’ll end up in Helen at agrees my heart. But God provided a savior rose again on the third day, repent and trust in him. And the Bible promises you’ll pass from death to life. So that’s what I would say to someone if I, that’s what I’d say to a group at the World Trade Center and all around us are people who could die today, 150,000 people die every 24 hours. They die in their sins. They’re going to hell. They could die in just a horrific circumstances of the World Trade Center burned alive in a car when they’re driving home or crushed under a truck or diet of a terrible terminal disease like cancer. And so I can’t talk to him of a wonderful wife, a wonderful plan that God has in fact, bill bright repented of that false gospel. And his manager wrote a forward to my book, called God is a Wonderful Plan for Your Life.
(25:08):
Which, so Stephen, being stoned to death. Yeah, that’s, I’ve got a copy of it right here. Okay. And, uh, so Romans chapter two, the goodness of God leads us to repentance. If Paul was saying in Romans two, the goodness of God leads to repentance of just talk about God’s goodness, he wasn’t practicing what he preached. Because if you read that in context, that verse is wrapped in terrible wraths. If you read in context where he says, God, if you, you know, if you continue and with an impenitent heart, God will give you tribulation and anguish upon every soul you are storing. Um, you know, you are storing up wrath that is gonna be revealed on the day of wrath. And so it’s very important that we don’t have our own way of witnessing, but we go and see what did Jesus do? Rich unruly came to him and says, what can I do to inherit eternal wife?
(26:01):
Jesus didn’t talk about a wonderful plan. He instead says, why do you call me good? And he reproved his understanding of the word good. And then he said, you know, the commandments. And then he went through the commandments with him. Why? To bring the knowledge of sin. He talked before about people know they’re sinners. The apostle Paul didn’t know he was a sinner. This is what he said, I had not known sin, but by the law. It’s not within man’s heart to understand how sinful is, how sinful sin is until the law brings the knowledge of sin. And so for 10 years, I preached God as a wonderful plan for your wife. And I filled the church with false converts. 90% under that erroneous message fall away from the faith 90%. If you were selling a parachute and you said, this parachute works only 10% of the time you need to get outta the parachute business.
(26:58):
You don’t want 90% of those jumped who jump, uh, die wearing your parachute. So it’s very important we say, what does scripture say? Let’s not have modern evangelism’s traditions. But let’s see what the Bible says about how to bring people to the cross. We’re not out to get decisions. We’re out to see men have a knowledge of sin and understand the gospel because that’s what a good soil under good soil here understands the true convert and the parable of the, so someone who’s hears and understands. And what the law does is the school master helps sinner understand the gospel. Is that making any sense or am I just raving on?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:33):
Well, in 2 Corinthians 3:7, Paul calls the 10 Commandments a ministry of death and condemnation. And I s right, actually, I, I wrote a book about, uh, the grace of God and, and I, I like looking at God, uh, through the eyes of grace. I think the, the Bible reveals a, a God that that is full of grace. And, and it, I usually emphasize, um, pointing people to Jesus. You know, uh, John 12:32, Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men onto me.” And so I think the more
Ray Comfort (28:07):
People, what’s the next verse about Jesus? What’s the next verse?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:10):
Tell me
Ray Comfort (28:12):
This. He said, speaking of what death he should die. So when he says, if I be lifted up, he wasn’t giving us an evangelist principle. He was saying what death? He was gonna die. He was gonna die by the cross. That’s the context. The other thing, the administration of the law is under death. That’s its function. That’s why Jesus used it. That’s why Paul used it. It shows us we have no hope in our attempt to attain righteousness. That only hope we have is the gospel. And then it says, we’re sin bound much more to grace abound. If you want make a light shine, put it in darkness. If you want calvary to shine, put it against Sinai. Show what sinner is and say, look what God did for us. Christ died for us, but while we yet sin us. So again, no one’s gonna appreciate a cure unless he understands he’s got the disease.
(29:01):
And if you circumnavigate talking about the disease, you’ll create false converts that’ll join the church and fall away at which 90% do. So it’s very important, Daniel, you go back to scripture and say, what does scripture say? The law brings death. That’s what Paul said. The law, which I thought was unto life, brought know the commandment, which I thought was the Dana unto life brought death to me. That’s his function. It shuts us up with no hope. But to look up to the cross, it’s like those biting serpents that have spoken off in the book of numbers that Jesus referred to in John chapter three. He said, as Moses lifted up the serpent on the wilderness, so must the son a man be lifted up. Go back. What happened? There were biting serpents that caused them to look up to that, that cross or that poll was being held up. And as the biting ser serpents of the law that bring death to us, that cause us to look to Jesus on the cross, cause us to have hope in him. So please think about this. Have you ever heard teaching called Hell’s Best Kept Secret?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:02):
Uh, yes, I’ve I’ve heard you teach on it. Um, live actually. And then I’ve got your, was this your first book that you wrote?
Ray Comfort (30:10):
No. No, it wasn’t. No, but it was one of the most important books. The first book was published in the us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:16):
I mean, I think it’s one of your, your most significant messages that you’re well known for.
Ray Comfort (30:20):
Yeah. And have you read God as a wonderful plan for your life as yet?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:24):
Yes, sir. I’ve, I’ve read it.
Ray Comfort (30:26):
Okay. Really good. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:27):
And, and, and, uh, you know, I I I think that it’s easier to draw people to God by talking about the goodness of God. Instead of talking, it’s unbiblical about the, the sinfulness of, of humanity. It’s not
Ray Comfort (30:39):
Biblical. It’s not biblical.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:41):
What, what, what do you,
Ray Comfort (30:41):
That’s what you need to look at. Is it biblical
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:43):
John 10:10 where Jesus said, I’ve come to give life and life more abundantly.
Ray Comfort (30:48):
Okay, let me address that, Paul, when he said, I’ve come to give life and life more abundantly, that word just means full. It doesn’t mean happy, it means full if possible. Paul had an abundant life. It was filled with beatings, stoning, shipwreck, imprisonment, and martyrdom. So that’s what he was saying. You read the book of Acts, they had a full abundant life. They were thrown in prison, they were tortured and 11 them died. So to say to people, God has a wonderful, happy life for you, it’s just gonna be a bed of roses without the thorns, is to create a wrong motive for people coming to Christ. And it, it’s filling the church with false converts. It’s not looking at what the scriptures say and what Jesus did and what Paul did. In Romans chapter two, Paul says, you who say you shall not steal, do you steal?
(31:36):
You say, you shall not commit adultery. Do you commit adultery? When Nathan stood before David, who had committed adultery and murder, he had violated the commandments. He didn’t talk about a wonderful plan. He said, why have you despised the commandment of the Lord? And so we need to, as I say, imitate scripture. Say, what did Jesus do? Cuz we don’t wanna be false witnesses. Say something that’s not true and fill the church with false converts because we are doing the work of the enemy rather than the work of God. And this is what I’ve been saying for 40 years, and people who have put into practice what Jesus did in, uh, mark 10 verse 17, and used the law to bring the knowledge of sin and forsaken the traditional way of evangelism, have found it to be biblical and and to be true, to open up sinner’s minds as to what we should do when it comes to challenging people to come to Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:25):
I also wanted to talk to you a little bit about bringing people to a, a decision. Like when you were running through your scenario a little bit earlier, you, you said, why don’t you think about that? And you, you often finish by saying, why don’t you think about that? Instead of asking people to, to pray, uh, a a prayer of, of salvation, um, why don’t you ever close the deal? I mean, if, if I give you a scenario where, uh, somebody comes into a car lot and Ray the car salesman and is there and says, oh, you have such an ugly car, your windows won’t roll down, your air conditioner doesn’t work. And look, you’ve got a big scrape on the side of your car. If the salesman doesn’t ever actually help them get into a new car, the salesman wouldn’t be a a very good salesman.
(33:16):
He would just leave them going around feeling very bad that they have an ugly car. But a good salesman will put them into a brand new car, upgraded all the features and options and everything. And so it, it seems to me that in some ways that, uh, you don’t close the deal. Why don’t you bring people to a point of decision? And, and I think it is very biblical to bring people to a point of decision in, in Deuteronomy, you know, uh, Moses says, I set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life. He’s encouraging them to choose to follow God, to choose a way of life. And so in your, in your witness, then why don’t you bring people to a point of, of choosing whether they’ll, they’ll follow Jesus.
Ray Comfort (34:06):
That’s what I do. But I don’t choose for them. I know you see, your, your methodology will be dictated by your theology. If you have a wrong theology about God and salvation, you’ll think that you bring people to salvation. When the Bible says salvation of the Lord, there’s nothing in the Bible that condones the modern sinner’s prayer where I say to someone, pray after me. Uh, dear God, I’m a sinner. That’s like saying to someone who’s committed, adultry, honor’s wife. Let’s go back to your wife. Knock on the door, door opens and say, okay, I want you to apologize to your wife. Repeat an apology after me. Dear wife, I’m really sorry. Dear wife, I’m really sorry I committed adultery. Please forgive me. That’s crazy. The sorrow should come from his heart and it should not be his words, it should come from his heart.
(34:54):
I see no evidence anywhere in scripture of anyone praying a sinner’s prayer, a prayer like that. And so I don’t imitate it. I say, Lord, you save sinners. I don’t save sinners. I share the gospel with them and I’ll leave it between them and God. And I’m not gonna manipulate them through any psychological manipulation or clever wording. I’m not a car salesman. I’m not selling cars. I wanna be a true and faithful witness and see people soundly saved and not produced false converts like I used to do when I ran around praying the sinner’s prayer of my surfing buddies. Does that make sense?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:30):
Absolutely. I I I very much appreciate your time. Um, if you’re listening, I really encourage you to get a of the new book, so Many Lions, so Few Daniels, it’s a great book, um, brother Comfort. If someone wants to know more about your ministry, uh, how can they find out more about you? What’s your website?
Ray Comfort (35:50):
Living waters.com. And they can go to YouTube and watch, um, uh, YouTube videos. And, uh, it’s, uh, um, a lot of stuff on Living waters.com free. We’re giving away 5 million of this gospel track, free of charge and, uh, no shipping charge. We’re, we’re paying for the shipping and giving away the tracks free. And they can see about that on our Living waters.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:13):
Well, thank you so much. You know, despite some of maybe our theological differences, I have tremendous respect for your ministry. I
Ray Comfort (36:23):
Don’t know why, because you think I’m doing it wrong. You shouldn’t have respect for me. You shouldn’t promote my books or the website because I’m doing it unbiblically.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:32):
I’m, I am for anybody that goes out there and talks to people about Jesus. And, and so I very much honor you and the many people that, that you have, uh, got to think about the the things of God. Um, I I do have one more question. The name of your TV show is The Way of the Master. When Jesus walked on the Earth, his way was to heal lots of sick people. And so I come from a, a spirit empowered background. Often in our services, we’ll pray for sick people to be healed. And, and often people’s, many people say that they, they receive healing. If you really want to follow the way of the master do you think that God will heal people as a way to bring people to Jesus?
Ray Comfort (37:24):
Of course, I pray for people that are sick, <laugh>, obviously. Um, but the way of the master is called the way of the master because it’s what Jesus did with the rich young ruler. He used the commandments to bring the knowledge of sin. He didn’t pray for his sickness or bring up sickness. He brought a knowledge of sin using those 10 commandments so that he would understand his sinfulness, that he had violated God’s law. So that’s what I do. Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Paul says in Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God to salvation. And so you can pray for sick people, that’s great, but they must hear the gospel because without the knowledge of sin, there’s no understanding of the cross, there’s no understanding of the cross, there’s no salvation. So make sure that you don’t just pray for someone so saw wrist or whatever, or a headache or whatever, that you give them the gospel and the biblical gospel, not the erroneous gospel of God as a wonderful plan for your life, cuz that has done great damage to the cause of the gospel and filled the church with false converts.
(38:29):
So anyway, I’ve gotta go. I’ve got a gospel to preach. It’s close to 11, and I’m gonna go around to the school and a local college and witness to people who are going to hell. And that grieves my heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:41):
That’s wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I really appreciate it.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:47):
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Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:50):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (41:10):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.