1 877-431-4276Anthony Greco | The Gospel of Jesus…is Jesus
In today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, I am joined by pastor and evangelist Anthony Greco to discuss his journey to becoming an evangelist. Greco shares his powerful testimony of encountering Jesus and feeling called to share the Gospel with others. He talks about how he was inspired by the story of evangelist T.L. Osborn and decided to travel to India to see if miracles really happened. Greco shares how he witnessed miracles at a Peter Youngren festival and how they deepened his faith in God.
Check out Anthony Greco’s Website: https://www.calgarylifechurch.com/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, pastor Anthony Greco. Thank you so much for being with me on the Evangelism Podcast. It’s
Anthony Greco (00:12):
Just an honor to be here with you and been following you for quite a number of years. Heard some amazing things, and we have a lot of mutual friends, and appreciate what you’re doing for the cause of Christ around the world.
Evangelist Daniel King (00:22):
Well, thank you. You are a pastor here in Calgary, Alberta. Yep. And you are also an evangelist. Yes. And so tell me about how you got started as an evangelist.
Anthony Greco (00:35):
<Laugh>. Well, well, you know, I gave my life to Christ in 1982. Born in a very strong, devout Catholic family, and had an encounter with Jesus. When I was 18, I was in a trailer counting my beer money to see how drunk I could get with my drinking buddies. And his roommate came in and opened up his Bible and shared Christ with me. And five minutes later, I was on my knees and I accepted Jesus. And it was it was a powerful moment where I literally felt, you know, something just lift off my life. The lights came on and, and I was experiencing this, this presence of Jesus. And, you know, I had never experienced anything like that. And I, I remember, I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry, but on the inside I was like, this is real. He’s alive. And I heard a voice on the inside of me say, yeah I’m real. And you’re gonna tell your generation, you know, I’m real. Something to that effect. You know how when God speaks to you, you kind of interpret that it wasn’t like an audible voice, but it was so undeniable. And so that’s how it started. And then someone put some Teal Osborne material in my hand, and it just resonated. I couldn’t put it down. And so
Evangelist Daniel King (01:44):
And so, because of Tia Osbourne’s story of going to India, you decided to go to India and test it out to see if it really worked. Yeah. Yeah. I, and so what happened?
Anthony Greco (01:53):
Okay, so I go to India, and so there’s I, I go to New Delhi and I see these posters everywhere. Come see the miracles of Jesus, the Blind Sea, the deaf here, the lame walk, thousands here, the good news, Jesus heals regardless of Casre religion, Canadian evangelist Peter Yare. And I thought, v I mean, my first thought was, are you allowed to advertise? Like that isn’t that presumption. But anyway, I ended up meeting him. And so he, you know, I, I just said, Hey, I’m from Cranbrook, bc and I said, I’ve heard of you and never met you, but I’d like to help. What can I do? And he, he says, well, you got a good camera there. Why don’t you take pictures of the miracles that they happen? And then he looked at my, my, my, my traveling partner, rod Harrison says, and you, you record them as they happen.
(02:37):
I said, yes. So we left that meeting. We went back to our hotel room, and we burst out laughing, like, like he was so matter of fact, and I mean, I believed in the mir, in Mir the miraculous, you know, but I’d never seen a miracle. I mean, maybe a sore knee or a sore elbow, or, but I’d never seen blind eyes open, you know, or deaf ears. And so I thought, all right. So that first night I show up at stadium and big open field, and there’s, you know, couple thousand people that first night. And Peter begins to preach, presenting Jesus, and you could just feel the atmosphere, get charged with faith and possibility. He gives the alter call and, you know, scores of people run forward and dust is coming up. And I’m like, I, I never seen that. And then he began to command miracles to happen.
(03:27):
And this is what I was waiting for. So I got the camera and I’m ready. And you know, he did it in categories, which right away I was disappointed, Daniel, I thought you don’t do in categories. I think I was, I think I was looking for something spectacular and sensational. You know, I I, and I thought once I saw that, that I would be transformed, that it wouldn’t, I would instantly have faith. I was looking for something, some kind of, of a religious experience that would fit into my frame of reference, or not reference, but I, what I would imagined. It starts with the deaf, commanding deaf spirits to come open, come out and blind eyes to open and cripples. And I’m, I’m watching this and I’m, I’ll never forget this little girl who had never walked and beautiful purple plaid dress on. And her father had wonderful Sikh man, you know, beard and turban, and he’s got tears running down his eyes onto his beard, onto his, his vest that he was wearing a sweater vest and big wet spots. And he’s laughing and crying, and his little girl who had never walked is walking back and forth, and he’s holding his big belly and laughing and crying. And he’s like, look what Jesus has done. Look what Jesus has done. And there was so many miracles that night, Daniel. I didn’t believe it.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:44):
I you saw it with your own eyes and you still didn’t believe
Anthony Greco (04:46):
It. I didn’t believe it. It was like water off a duck’s back. So I go back to the Y M C A where I was staying on in, in New Delhi and Dicing Road, and, and I was, that whole night I tossed and turned, I ended up getting on the balcony, and I’m crying out to God. And I said, God, obviously Peter Youngren was in really fine form, and Jesus, you were awesome as always. But what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I believe what I saw? I always said, if I see it, I’ll believe it. And it really comes down to, you know, and, and this is what I understood that night after wrestling, I realized that so much of my Christianity was in the realm of my, in, in was shaped by my, by my worldview. And in the West, it’s such a, a worldview shaped by logic and reason.
(05:29):
Well, it was back then. Now it’s about feelings. But that’s a whole nother, nother story. But back then, it was so much about you know, if I can taste it, if I can measure it, if I can touch it, then I’ll accept it as a reality. And I understood that night that my worldview was very much a natural worldview over in India and different parts of the world, as you well know, there’s a supernatural worldview. And so when I understood that, you know, you know Christ, you know, you know, the natural mind receives not the things of God. I I I will never be able to figure, download God into my brain. He’d literally blow your mind. But yet our spiritual capacity, Christ lives on the inside of us. And I understood that night that my, the spiritual reality of the new creation, that capacity to believe in no God is far beyond my intellect. And so in the West, we’ve elevated reason and logic above the place of simple childlike faith and spiritual realities. And so that night, I repented of my heartness of heart, asked Jesus to help me and begin to really able to appreciate and not be critical and cynical about the miracles that I saw.
Evangelist Daniel King (06:35):
And since you first connected with Pastor Peter Youngren, you helped to organize some of the big gospel festivals mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that he’s done in, in different parts of the world. And, and even till today, you’re, you’re continuing to, to work with him. So, so tell me about some of the adventures. What, what comes to mind of the, these different countries you’ve gone to and what God has done?
Anthony Greco (06:57):
Well in the, in the early days, so I, I’m working in Cranbrook. I’m a manager of a pizza hut. And I would, I would save up my money and then, you know, when I had money, I’d phone Peter and say, where are you going? You know, and then I’d, I’d go in advance and help set up. And so one day, the, we were watching the news, and so he lived in eastern Canada, in Toronto area, and I lived in Bridge Columbia while the Soviets, you know, they invade Afghanistan and, and millions of Afghan refugees begin to pour over the border into Pakistan. So Peter calls me and he says Anthony, you know, did, are you watching the news? I said, yeah. I said, it’s amazing. And he says, wow, the Afghans have never been reached with the gospel. He goes, that’s one of the last strongholds of darkness. We need to go there. And I said, okay, what do you wanna do? And he says, well, let’s go to pva, right by the Kira Pass and let’s, you know. And he says, can you go in advance and set it up for me? I said, sure,
Evangelist Daniel King (07:44):
Sure, no problem. Why not? You didn’t know what was impossible.
Anthony Greco (07:47):
I didn’t know. So I went and so I meet with all the pastors there. Now, when I was there was the same time that Osama Bin Laden was in pva, working on behalf of the cia, getting support from the, from the CIA to buy stingers and mules and weapons. And so the KGB was in the city setting off bombs in the marketplace, trying to force the government to push the Afghan refugees back into the refugee camps. Cause when they were coming into the city, they were getting finances, they were getting arms. And so it was chaos. So I’m there meeting with all the bishops and priests and pastors from every imaginable spectrum of Christianity, telling them what we want to do. And they’re like, you are crazy. There’s bombs going off. You’re gonna get us all killed. You don’t understand what it is to be a minority and a Muslim majority.
(08:32):
And, and so they, they forced me. They said, now you’re gonna call Pastor Peter Youngren and tell ’em to cancel the meetings. Cuz the previous 36 hours, I think it was six or nine bombs had gone off in the marketplace. So I got all the bishops and priests and pastors in a, in a house, and I’m on the, you know, the telephone. We didn’t have, we didn’t have cell phones or internet or fax machines at that day. I called Peter and I explained the situation and he just yells back and he goes, Anthony, tell them I’m coming. And he hung up the phone. I mean, it was like the air Manuel, the air was sucked out of that room. And they were just so despondent when Peter arrived. And we saw, and then, I mean, the first miracles were among, we had a lot of the Afghans experience. We had two interpreters. So we were speaking in [inaudible] and saw amazing miracles predominantly among the Muslims. And I remember going to the Bible Society and buying every piece of scripture they had. And we gave it to all those Muslim that were demanding Bibles and scriptures. It was, it was fantastic to see.
Evangelist Daniel King (09:32):
Let’s talk about power evangelism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, why is it important for people to see the power of God at work?
Anthony Greco (09:40):
I love the old African proverb, which you’ve probably heard. You’re walking down the road and the road splits in two and you don’t know which way to go. One road has a, a man that’s dead, another one has a alive, which one are you gonna ask for directions? And I think our message is the resurrection of Jesus. And I, I think in North America, we focused on Christ died for our sins. The penalty was paid. But we don’t emphasize enough that the keys of death, hell in the grave are in the belt, in the hands of Jesus. He rose from the grave. He’s the only one. And he’s the same yesterday, today and forever and miracles, you know, they attest, they confirm the message. T.L. Osborn said to me, he says, you know, if you abide in my word, then you are my disciples. Indeed, we need to have the deeds to authenticate our message.
(10:27):
Cuz anyone can talk about what their prophet or guru, you know, had said. And so this, and it’s also when you go to areas where they’re held in darkness, and maybe there’s false religions or demonic powers or al, until you demonstrate that your message has greater power than theirs it’s very difficult for them to put their faith in Christ. So we, we must have miracles, Paul put an emphasis on it. And the only time we see that Paul didn’t have a lot of fruits in his ministries when he went to Mars Hill. And he just, he had a great, you know, apologetic discourse with the leaders. And they said, we’ll hear you again on this matter. But everywhere else, you know, in the book of Acts is like the Holy Spirit moves. And then the church plays catch up day of Pentecost boom. And they’re like, Peter’s like, whoa, what?
(11:15):
Oh, I know what this is. This is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel. 3000 people are saved. Acts chapter three, boom, A lay man gets healed. Don’t look at us as if, you know, it was by our, and so you see this pattern in the book of Acts where miracles change the spiritual, their signs and wonders and signs point to something they make you wonder, who is this Jesus? And so I have found that that is absolutely vital and it can quickly, Jesus said, even to Sodom and well to Corine and some of the cities, you know, and he said, if the miracles that were done in you were done in Sodom and Gamo, they would repentant. So miracles have an ability to bring repentance and change of mind and change of attitude in, in, in, in, in different people groups.
Evangelist Daniel King (11:58):
I’ve heard you say the gospel of Jesus is Jesus. Yeah. What do you mean by that?
Anthony Greco (12:04):
<Laugh>? You know, it’s you know, that’s the good news man, is that, you know every, every religion is propagated, usually by the parents. And then it’s affirmed by, you know, maybe a priest or a monk or a guru or a holy man. And through certain ceremonies that are performed in pagodas or temples or mosques or whatnot, right? Only in Christianity is our, in the gospel. What’s unique is that our message is advanced by the participation of the founder himself. You know, the Lord went with them, you know, you know, confirming the word. And when people encounter Jesus, our message is a person. You, you don’t become an adherent to a doctrine or you join a religious movement or take membership in a denomination. You encounter Jesus and you find in him, he’s everything you need, your savior, your healer, the Baptizer and the Holy Spirit, restore, deliverer, you know, he’s everything. He’s the life. And so that’s what I get excited is that the good news about Jesus is I know that when someone says yes, they can encounter, they’re gonna have a, an encounter with the living resurrected savior.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:12):
So you have the heart of an evangelist and now you’re pastoring. And so what’s that like to go from traveling, doing crusades to, to now being a pastor? And, and, and how have you brought those two different giftings and callings together?
Anthony Greco (13:29):
Yeah, I mean that’s a, I mean, that’s a tension that I’m, I’m still trying to learn how to, how to manage. Cuz you go overseas and it’s, it’s, it’s proclamation. You know, north America was a bit more explanation. Now, do I still expect the miraculous to happen in my church setting? Absolutely. And just, I heard a testimony just a few nights ago of a young gal that had a, a, a cyst, you know, on her ovary, and we prayed and she went to the doctrine and a vanished, we’ve seen blind eyes open. But what I recognize in the church is that, you know, as a, you know, a pastor, you know, when I started, someone said to me, Anthony says, you know, well actually I heard John Maxwell say this at a conference. He said, the weakness of the Charismatic Pentecostal Church is you guys overestimate the event and underestimate the process.
(14:11):
And so the shift that I’ve had to make is to think long term, build relationships. Now I’m planted in this community. I’ve been here for 23 years, and I want to, you know, invite people into that relationship over that process of time to come to Christ. The em, I I really believe that, that a great pastor, according to Jesus in Luke 50 leaves, the 99 safe sheep to go after the one lost sheep. And so I think it’s the number one job of every pastor is not to grow deeper disciples, but is to reach lost people. And so when we thought about our church, and so how I look at it, I think it’s the angle scale that about, on a scale of one to 10, the five is where someone gets born again, eight nines and tens are your solid, mature believers that can feed themselves.
(14:58):
Your zero ones and twos are those that are not even interested in spiritual reality. Everything, how we’ve designed our church is with, I’m thinking of the threes and fours, which are the people that are starting to ask questions. Is there more to life than this? What about Jesus? Is the Bible true? What happens when I die? You know? And five of course is born again, six, they’re and seven are new believers. So I prepare my messages for three to six or four to sevens. I figured that, well, the zero ones and twos, they’re not there. Eights, nines, and tens. Come on, you can feed yourself. I’m not getting fed in church. Really. You know, you’re, you’re like,
Evangelist Daniel King (15:35):
I have, you need to be feeding someone else. You need to
Anthony Greco (15:37):
Be feeding someone else. Now take some responsibility. So that’s how I gear my church. And so I had to make big adjustment on, you know, how I speak using layman’s terms, you know eradicating some of the Christian Church and Christianese so that it’s very welcoming. And, and I’ve seen people come in and some of them, you know, especially some of the more educated, affluent people, they may take a year or two before they actually make a decision for Christ. They’re really watching everything. But I still believe job number one, ultimately I think you is, is is reaching that one lost person.
Evangelist Daniel King (16:13):
We’re here together at the Advance Evangelist Summit, and it’s really wonderful to see all these different evangelists from around Canada come together here in Calgary and have a heart for evangelism. And I think one of the things that God wants to do is to raise up more proclamation of evangelists who will go and preach the gospel with strengths and with demonstration and with power, with full. Like
Anthony Greco (16:38):
You do. Like you
Evangelist Daniel King (16:39):
Do. Yeah. And, and so what advice would you give to, to a young person who, who would like to be a, a proclamation of evangelists? Maybe they don’t even know what that is, but they, they wanna tell thousands of people about Jesus.
Anthony Greco (16:50):
You know, I had a, a great, one of the great mentors in my life is a man named Wayne Myers. And he’s done in Mexico City. He just turned a hundred. And one day I asked him, I said, why don’t we have a lot of miracles in North America like we see overseas? And he says, you know, he says, Saul never killed a giant, and he never had giant killers under his ministry or under his tenure. And he says, David killed a giant. And then, you know some of my, his mighty men, you know, killed off the brothers of Goliath. And he says, you can’t give what you, what you don’t have. So I would say this, all that to say who’s doing it? Who’s who, who’s caring and demonstrating what you want. Go, go draw ear, connect with them, people like yourself, you know, and I know there’s a, you we’re talking about the bootcamp with Daniel nda, my friend Peter Youngren.
(17:38):
When there, there are people that are operating in this, I would say go and serve under those ministries, draw clothes, study hunger and thirst after it. It’s that association submission is such a powerful thing because when you’re submitted, what’s the anointing that’s on the mission comes on you. And I would say, I wouldn’t be here today without Peter’s mentorship, him acknowledging a gift that’s in me, giving me opportunity, correcting me, you know, fine tuning. And so that is an absolute important thing. Pastors are gonna produce pastors and teachers are gonna produce teachers evangelists will produce evangelists. Find you, put yourself in those environments and step out on faith and be bold.
Evangelist Daniel King (18:16):
Let’s talk about what God is doing in Canada. For many years, Canada has sent missionaries around the world. So many Canadian churches have a heart for missions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and now what we see is that people from around the world are coming to Canada. And so right here in Calgary, you have people from many different nations, many different cultures. And, and it’s like God is bringing the mission field to you. And I know in your church you have people from many different backgrounds. What would you say to other pastors in Canada about this mission field that God is bringing here?
Anthony Greco (18:52):
I mean, I was just talking to one of the local pastors here and told me that in the northeast quadrant of my city, Calgary now Calgary’s about, I think it’s 1.3, 1.4 million, but in that quadrant there are 440081% of those people. So over 300,000 are new immigrants. They’re new Canadians, there are Muslims are Hindus, they’re in our backyard. And I, I think what the inside of the church must reflect the outside of the church. You know, we’re multicultural church. We have about 50 different nationalities represented. And we you know, it’s the, the challenge is I don’t want to be culturally specific. I need to be culturally sensitive. And so I look what’s on my platform is my platform. All white guys or white women, does it reflect my leadership, everything. And I think that that is so absolutely key. And so one of the best things is, is you gotta start connecting, you know, with people from other nations, other lands.
(19:51):
And I, I’m, I’m, I’m blessed and fortunate that I’ve been able to be in 40 different nations. And so when I meet my Nigerian friends and I say, oh, did you bring any [inaudible] you know, and I asked them about, oh, you got [inaudible] you know, <inaudible>, you know, I talk about the food. We make that connection. I do that with my, with my Muslim friends, with my Hindu friends. And I, I try to learn a little phrase in each language where I go. And so when I meet someone I can just drop a few words and shoot because I know what it’s like. My wife’s an immigrant. English is not her first language. She’s from Sweden. We met in India, got engaged in Nigeria. My mom and dad were immigrants that come to this land. I grew up in a street where every house was built by an Italian.
(20:32):
I always felt like I didn’t belong. I always felt like I was an outcast. And if you’ve never lived in another country, you don’t understand what that’s like. I lived in Sweden for four years. I know it’s like to feel like you’re an outcast. You don’t understand the culture, the jokes, the language I to learn it. And I think as the ch Canadian church, what an incredible opportunity. But we gotta break out of our old Canadian mindset and realize our nation has changed. We are, we per capita. I read yesterday or this week per capita, Canadians have brought in more new immigrants than any other nation on the planet. I am a hundred percent in favor of it. And the opportunities to win them, to befriend them, open up an English as a second language, put on an international day, you know, invite your Muslim friends in.
(21:23):
I invite, I met an Iranian family at the park and I’m teasing with the guy and I said, teach me some Farsi. He says, [inaudible] gum. Which is really rude way of saying get lost. He shows up in my church months later, I look at him and I said, gum show. Gum show. He laughs cuz he knew I remembered him. And so his son comes to our, to our youth. He’s like, I’m a Muslim, but he’s coming to our youth. It’s a long game we’re playing, you know. But I think that’s, that is an awesome opportunity as Canadians and you know, we, we have a, you know America, you have the melting pot. It’s
Evangelist Daniel King (21:57):
A great opportunity. It is. And the church needs to take advantage of it. Yeah.
Anthony Greco (22:00):
And you know what? Those people are open for signs and wonders and even I read a study that nine out of every 10 Canadians has had some kind of supernatural encounter. What a great conversation starter. You ever have a spiritual experience and all of a sudden, so what do you think of spiritual reality? It could be a ghost or a demon or something, you know, something really. But we are, Canada has changed, our mindset has changed. And I think, yeah, it is an opportunity.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:26):
That’s awesome. Well, pastor Anthony, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I appreciate it.
Anthony Greco (22:31):
Oh, well thank you so much
Evangelist Daniel King (22:32):
Daniel. I know we could talk for a long time. You’ve got so many stories. Thank you so much. Another
Anthony Greco (22:36):
Time. Thank you.
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Tyrella Smith | Gospel Fire for All Nations
Tyrella Smith was one of my students at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Since then she has preached to thousands of people in Tanzania and Zambia. Now she is planning a major stadium event in the middle of Canada. She is an on-fire evangelist who is ready to light a Gospel fire all over the world.
Learn more about Tyrella Smith: https://gospelfireforallnations.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Terrell Smith. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It’s such an honor. Dr. King. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
You were one of my students at, that’s correct. The Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Yeah. Led by Evangelist Daniel Kolinda <laugh>. And you were in the first That’s right. Graduating class of the Evangelism Bootcamp. Yes. And so tell me, what has God done in your life since you were there at the bootcamp?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, first of all, I just wanna say it’s such an honor. Dr. King was one of my teachers and one of my favorite teachers. You gave amazing homework that really helped prepare us for where, where we are all working and where we’re all headed. But since being in the bootcamp, I did three Decapolis Crusades, two in Tanzania, and then the last one was in Zambia. And that was amazing. So I actually got to preach on Delos in the city of Kassam and just all of the tools that we, we needed to identify the storytelling proclamation and then actually moving into signs, wonders and miracles. I mean, we learned that at, at the bootcamp and from this amazing teacher. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:24):
Well, thank you. So Deus is mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from the, the region in the New Testament where there were 10 cities. 10 cities. And so the idea is that Christ for All nations goes into a country mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and does multiple events in multiple cities at the same time. Yeah. And so all of the graduates from the Evangelism Bootcamp, they go in and help Yeah. To organize the events. And, and, and then as they become competent in sharing the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, then they get to actually get up on the platform and, and preach hundred percent. So what was that like? You got to stand mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in, in front of a sea of people, see thousands of people. Did you ever imagine that you would do something like that?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, I had had prophetic dreams from the Lord. And in 2018 I was invited by Christ for All nations to go to a crusade in Port Harcourt, Nigeria. And I remember watching this happen and saying to myself, why am I here? And God spoke to me and he said, I need you to see what you’re going to be doing one day. And so that was the first time I ever saw a crusade lie. And the passage that God put on my heart was when when Jacob put his flocks in front of the water, he put stripe, he put speckled, and then they bore fruit according to what they saw. And so as we’re on de capitalist, as we’re at school, as I was at the crusade, God was teaching me to see what I would be able to produce in him through the power of the Holy Spirit, through good training.
(02:56):
And so, you know, we learned how to do just like He the work of an evangelist. So that’s the prep work. And we do 80% of that before we even get to the microphone. And then here we are standing in front of the microphone and we’re standing in front of a sea of people, and every single one of them is a single person on the field. And it’s like Jesus is standing them, standing there with them as if they’re the only one. And so as you’re preaching, you’re preaching at with a point, you’re preaching with a spear and asking God to use those words to pierce the heart and bring a whole multitude to Christ as if they were the only person on the field. And it was, it was incredible. And just to be there in that moment, catching a net of fish with the power of goalie spirit. Absolutely. Epic. There’s nothing like it. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:51):
So let’s talk about the Evangelism Bootcamp. It’s a pretty intense time Oh yeah. Of, of study and learning about God, and then learning about evangelism Yeah. And really sharpening your gospel message. Yeah. What are some of the things that you learned while you were there at boot camp?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh, my favorite. Now this has actually transformed my ministry in Canada, and even when I do personal evangelism. And that is the powerful art of storytelling. And Jesus said he never spoke to anyone. He did not speak to the crowds unless he used a parable. And so it’s, I actually remember one class that Dr. King talked about, and I hope that he says this everywhere he goes, but storytelling is like throwing out rubies, diamonds, gold nuggets. And then they, when you tell a story, they trip on the truth of the story and they pick it up and they own it for their, for their very self. So storytelling and then applying the gospel of Jesus Christ, to it turns a light on inside of them, and they own the understanding of that their sinners, that they need a savior and that they can be and filled with the Holy Spirit. So I would say that was the biggest, one of my biggest takeaways was storytelling <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:08):
And you were in a full week of my classes. Yes. What are some of the things that you learned from the classes that I taught?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah. So one of the classes that you taught, doc you taught was actually how to go through a passage from top to bottom and actually go back and forth from the passage to application. And so that was really great as well as one of my favorite things was applying the story. And like, Zakia, when you as Zakk came to see Jesus, Jesus came to see Zakia. And today you have come and Jesus has come to meet you. So you are a master at I wanna say expounding through a passage, but also on the application. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:59):
It’s so wonderful that you are a Canadian evangelist. <Laugh>, my wife Jessica is con Canadian. Yes. And both my kids are Canadian. So three quarters of our family are Canadian. And so of course we have king Ministries Canada here. Okay. And so, so many Canadians are, are very generous mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with the gospel and, and have helped to support Amen. The Amen festivals and crusades that we do around the world. And, and so I think God’s raising up a new generation of, of Canadian evangelists mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like Amen. Canada has always sent missionaries out Yes. To many different parts of the world. Yes. but there’s, there’s such a huge need here in Canada for, for more real, genuine evangelists who will proclaim the gospel. You, you’re one, now you’re
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Speaking my language,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:43):
<Laugh>. And so talk to to me about that. What, what do you see God doing here in Canada?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay. I’m so like, ugh, such an honor to have that question asked. Because actually after taking the bootcamp, I head off to Tanzania. It is wild. And it’s so busy. And you just need five minutes to yourself with your daughter. You forget who you are. And so I go into my room and I say, Jesus, I just, I just need to hear something from you. And he speaks to me very clearly, and he says, the Great Canadian harvest. And all of a sudden I saw these combines lined up all in a row, whoosh. And they would clear a field, whoosh. They’d clear another field, just absolute unity. And now I’m from the prairies. So, you know, we don’t often see a lot of combines on a field at, at once and certainly not lined up. But I understood what the Lord was saying, and it was this, that the proclamation evangelist has come and is coming back into Canada, and we’re gonna see that renormalize in this season. It’s time to go back to mass salvation within our borders and to renormalize the Canadian evangelist. And we’re starting to see a surgeon’s resurgence of evangelism. Right. We’re seeing everybody’s hungry to talk about Jesus. Right. But there’s a proclamation of the gospel that needs to go out. Like it goes out from the mountains and for people to gather around the sound of God’s words and the power of the Holy Spirit to land on those words. And we’re seeing it now. We’re seeing it now,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:21):
<Laugh>. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and you are friends with Brad Meyer? Yes. He’s going with me next month to Ethiopia. Amazing. And we’re going to be preaching together there on the fields. Yes. A harvest fields of Ethiopia. And he’s a great evangelist. He’s got a powerful group, a Facebook group encouraging evangelists in That’s right. Canada and around the world. Yes. He really has a, a gift for that. What are some of the things you’ve, you’ve learned from your relationship with, with Brother Brad?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Absolutely. Hands down is compassion. When you see Brad think of him as just an evangelist, but behind the scenes, I’ve watched him weep at the joy of a miracle. Now, many evangelists, they’ll be like a miracle. But when Brad sees a miracle, he’ll often cry and he’ll tell the story because he knows that a miracle changes the life. It’s not just a supernatural power of God, it’s the supernatural power of God applied to a broken life. And so that’s one of the things that we see, I think with Brad, is the personality of, of our God with the power of God. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:28):
Yeah. So I’m gonna put a, a link to where people can join the, the life group Yeah. Of evangelists. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because if, if you’re a Canadian evangelist, you really need to get connected with other Canadian evangelists who have a heart mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for the gospel. So what are some of the things that God’s put on your heart coming up? What mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what are some of the outreaches that you’re gonna do here in the next Yes. Few months and, and years.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes. <laugh>, thank you for asking. So one thing that God has really spoken to my heart, and I really wish I had it here right now, but you can see it online is I said to God, I feel like it’s time for the proclamation of the gospel to go out. And I had been thinking about Sastel Center since 2018. And so last spring I said, God, like if this is you, if you wanna see Sast Health Center filled with people hearing the gospel, I said, you put something in my hands today and I’m a hundred percent in, I’ll do it. But if you don’t, I’m a hundred percent out and I will never think of it again for as long as I live. And within an hour a gentleman came up to me and he put two photos in my hands. One was Billy Graham preaching in Sastel Center, and the other was a picture of the promo.
(10:45):
Nobody knew what I’ve prayed. And I said, okay, God, we’re in. So since then we set the date June 2nd through fourth in Saskatoon, at Sastel Center Stadium. Wow. And we have Charity Gale coming. And one of the other things is we had a farmer show up and he said, Terrell, he says, I’ve got a problem. I said, brother, tell me cuz he was the donor. And so we’re gonna pray for him cuz it’s about partnership. Right. And he says, well, I’ve got all this grain and I gotta move my grain. So now I’m thinking, okay, I need to pray into the marketing. Cause you gotta market your grain. I have to pray into the shipping or whatever, and I’m just starting to calculate how I’m gonna pray for this brother. And he says, no, you don’t understand. He says, I need to give you this grain.
(11:29):
I said, bro, what am I gonna do with grain? I grow grass. I’m not a farmer. Right. And he says, no. He says, you’re gonna sell this grain. And so we sell it, and it was enough for the price of the stadium. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then another person another ministry came and I said, you know, I really feel like God’s telling us to get Charity, Yale to come because she’s not a worship entertainer. She is a worshiper worshiper. Right. And I could not get through to save my life. I couldn’t get through. And so now I’m in Zambia and I’m with this incredible evangelist Rachel Smith, which is funny. We Oh,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:08):
Yeah. Rachel Smith is a great woman of God. She’s
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Amazing, she’s wonderful. And so we’re in Zambia together, we’re having a great time. She says, Terrell, tell me about your event. And I said, well, I feel like I’m supposed to get Charity Gale, but I can’t get through it. And she says, well, listen, I got you. That’s my worship leader’s best friend <laugh>. And then this other ministry steps up and says, I’m gonna pay for the whole bill. Wow. So we still need to raise $200,000, but we’re on the go and we’re just gonna keep moving because Jesus is moving. And people want to gather, not for any big logos or egos, but just to calm into the presence of the Lord and bring somebody else to meet ’em. And that’s just where we’re at. This thing is gonna wrap the ca the, the country is gonna just be wrapped with the gospel
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:57):
And fire. Amen. Well, I believe that this will be the first of many amazing outreaches across the nation of
Speaker 2 (13:04):
God’s doing it Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:05):
He’s doing it. And so if someone’s listening and they want to participate, they want to help with some of the cost of this, this great Canadian outreach what is your website? How can they be a part of what God is doing? Or if they want to come and be a part and, and, and thank you, get their church involved or, or get other evangelists involved, how can they contact
Speaker 2 (13:23):
You? Absolutely. So the event is called Come together.day, come together.day. Okay. You can go on there. You can learn all about the event June 2nd through fourth at Sastel Center Stadium in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. On there you’ll see a donate link. All we need is literally 220 people to give a thousand bucks or 2,200 people to give a hundred bucks so that other people can hear the gospel. And it’s done. It’s done. And we’ll see the kingdom come.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:56):
Amen. And what’s your personal website?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
My personal website is Gospel fire for all nations.org. And you can see come together on there as well. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:06):
Well, let’s finish by praying for the Nation of Canada because I know it’s on your heart, <laugh>. And let’s, let’s pray for, for people to be saved across Canada. Amen. And for God to raise up evangelists across Canada. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
All right. Well, first of all, God, I just want to thank you for Dr. King here in this nation, in these borders. And Lord, I want to thank you for the power of his presence in this nation. And I’m asking God that you release his feet with fire upon our own land, and that you anoint him with great power, Lord, to strengthen this nation when he comes back and as he goes into these other places, strengthen him there as well. And God, we wanna thank you right now in the name of Jesus Christ, that Canada right now is being saved, that you have marked out within our borders, those that you have anointed, that you’ve chosen, that the spirit of God is upon them to preach the gospel to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and to set the captives free. And God, I thank you that your eyes are on our nation and that our nation currently right now is being stirred by the power of the Holy Spirit and that you are saving our nation.
(15:14):
Now, God, I thank you even for some of the shakings that we’ve had that has ripened the grain. Help us to mobilize collaboratively, Lord, to see the kingdom of God come in people’s lives. And that heaven would be full in your mighty name, in Jesus’ name, God. People say, come quickly Lord Jesus. And I say, God, wait. Our nation must be saved. Have mercy and bless us, and fill us with fire and with the presence of God and anoint us God, to see every soul saved or hearing the gospel in this season. In Jesus name. Bless us, God bless us and make us a blessing to you. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:55):
Amen. Amen. Canada shall save. Amen. <laugh>, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast and
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Thank you for everything you do. I really respect your work. God bless you.
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Jon “Razz” Laframboise | What is Your Unique Evangelistic Expression?
Jon Laframboise is passionate about bringing Revival Fire to Canada. He serves as a staff evangelist at a local church in Calgary, Alberta. He loves to activate believers to share their faith. On today’s podcast he asks, “What is your Unique Evangelistic Expression?”
Connect with Jon “Razz” Laframboise on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Jon.r.laframboise
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me. I am in Calgary, Alberta, up in Canada. And John is a good friend. He’s been a friend for many years, and you’re gonna have to help me with pronouncing your last name. You’re such a good friend. I don’t even know how to say your name.
Jon Laframboise (00:21):
It’s okay. [inaudible]
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. So you have a calling from God mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from on your life to be an evangelist. That’s right. And you went to Bible school? The same Bible school that my wife went to or that she was associated with the ministry there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it was called WIBI. Do you remember what the initials stand for?
Jon Laframboise (00:46):
WEBI stands for World Impact Bible Institute.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
And so it was the Bible School of Pastor Peter Youngren. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, who is an evangelist here in Canada. And he was doing crusades in many different parts of the world. And I actually wanted to learn from him as a young evangelist. And so I called up his office and said, can I come and meet with you? And he said, I’d love to meet with you, but not here in Canada. Come with me to Africa. And so I went with him to Congo, Africa. And at that time my wife Jessica was working for Pastor Peter as a crusade director. As a festival director. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so she was organized, the festival and everything. And so that’s where me and my wife met. And so you knew my wife ever since the, the webi days.
Jon Laframboise (01:35):
That’s right. Yeah. So she started working for Peter Youngren at the tail end of my time at the Bible School. And then I went to, in Indonesia as a missionary. And that’s, she actually came through Indonesia with Peter Young’s ministry organizing a festival, healing festival. And she stayed with us for a few days in Indonesia.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so tell me a little bit about the ministry that you did while you were there in Indonesia.
Jon Laframboise (01:56):
So a lot of it started off just going from village to village. You know, doing these well house to house stuff, smaller house meetings and whatever else. But then we wanna do something a little bigger, a little bit more impact. So we started going villages. I bought a portable sound system that we just bring with us, you know, portable, you know, but bring it with us to different villages. And started doing healing festivals or crusades and just started preaching the gospel and praying for people, seeing people getting healed. So they just, and from there it just, the reputation just kind of grew and grew and grew and grew. And even before the tsunami that happened in 2005 or four we actually went to Acce where the province where it happened, you know, and then we got kicked out pretty quickly. They weren’t sold under Muslim Sri law, you know, they drove us out. But it just kept on going in as much as you could, trying to just preach Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
So you are a Canadian evangelist. That’s right. And you are here in Canada and evangelism is different in every different part of the world. Kind of talk to me about how evangelists are received here in Canada.
Jon Laframboise (03:02):
Well, it’s so funny as like a city like Calgary, you know, you know, the reception will change from person to person. We are a massively multicultured city, you know, so I always say, like, joke around saying, if your city is predominantly Caucasian, then you’re not reaching our city. You know, we have a lot of Africans, we have a lot of Middle Eastern people, we have a lot of Southeast Asians, we have a lot of, you know, Canadians, if you put it that way. So there’s, it’s a, it’s a wide reach. So it depends on what sector of the city. For example, in our city of Calgary, but even in Canada as well, much like the us, lots of vary cultures. So the, lately now we’re seeing within the church, the evangelistic ministry being more and more accepted, more realizing like, oh, we are needed for years and past.
(03:45):
It was almost the, you know, the outcast son, if you would like, yeah, we know you’re part of us, but let’s hold you at bay because we don’t quite trust you yet. But now there’s been a lot of reconciliation in churches in terms of the different evangelistic ministries, you know, and more of an acceptance of it. But even so, the ministry of it, outside the four walls of the church it’s when done right, if I could put it that way. It’s widely well received, I think, where if we really focus on that Roman two force, the goodness of God, that leads people to repentance. You know, when we share the real, true, genuine, raw love of Jesus and not the preconceived notion of the world thinks Jesus is, it’s pretty well received.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
I think it’s really neat what God has done here in Canada, cuz there are so many different nations and cultures mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that have moved here. Canada has been very welcoming to people from many different nations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And in some ways the mission field has come to Canada. I mean, Canada has always had a heart for missions that the churches of Canada have sent missionaries out mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to many different parts of the world. And now the mission field has come to Canada. And I, I think it would be very valuable for Canadian churches to, to think about it in those terms mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and think how are we going to reach these people that God has brought to our own backyard? Yep. And so right now you are actually serving as a evangelist at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative> here in Calgary. That’s right. And so you used to be a full-time evangelist traveling around and, and ministering at a variety of different churches and bringing revival and activating people for evangelism. But about a year ago, God gave you the opportunity to start on, on staff at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so what does that look like? Being an evangelist, but fitting into the vision of a local church?
Jon Laframboise (05:31):
At first it was, it was difficult tr to define that and piece it. You know, we’re still defining what that looks like. You know, both my pastor and I, you know, I spent 17 years traveling full-time. He spent several years traveling. So we both had the same attitude, the same mindset of, of of an itinerant ministry. But when it comes down to boiling it down to a local church, you know, he’s a senior leader, the episodic leader, you know, and I’m the evangelist. So it’s we’re still forming what that actually looks like, you know, cause it seems like a new concept really in modern day church. But really what I’m tasked with is creating an evangelistic culture within the, the church. Right. Equipping the believers, you know, for the sake of harvest. You know, and, and really what I’m finding a lot of what I need to do is actually redefine what evangelism looks like to the everyday believer. Cuz a lot of us, we have this, this preconceived notion, whether it’s an early childhood experience or or whatever it is, that you think, oh, when I hear the word outreach or evangelism, it means going door to door and it’s relegated to one particular style, technique or method. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:36):
So people, when you say evangelism, they think, oh, if, if I’m gonna do evangelism, I have to be willing to go and cold call someone, talk to them Yeah. Without ever having seen them before. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (06:47):
It, yeah. So really, so it’s, and I see evangelism, it, it breaks outside of the method. You know, I always tell people that I don’t win souls because I’m an evangelist. I win souls because I love Jesus. You know, and evangelism in its most purest form, I would define it this way, that it’s falling so in love with Jesus, that you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together. You know, when you, when you adopt that as a, the, the foundation of evangelism, it takes away the method, the technique or whatever else. And it just opens up for interpretation of how can I share the love of God with someone, you know, however that looks for you compared to someone else. It, it’s wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:24):
So as an evangelist who’s on staff at a church helping to activate the church in evangelism, do you think every church should hire an evangelist to be their staff evangelist?
Jon Laframboise (07:35):
Oh, I would love that. I’d be absolutely wonderful. You know, like it’s, God gave the five fold for the equipping, perfecting and the maturing of the saints. Well, it’s hard for a pastor to equip someone in evangelism the same way. It’s hard for a teacher, you know, to equip people to, you know, in, in prophecy or whatever else. It works better when you have that person called to that area to lead someone and train them in that particular area. You know, like evangelists don’t make good pastors, but pastors make great pastors and pastors don’t make good evangelists, you know, and vice versa, apostles, you know? Yeah. They could.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:08):
And sometimes I think there’s an antagonism between people who have a gift of pastoring and people who have a, a gift of the evangelists. But what we need to really understand is that both gifts are needed in the body of Christ. Well, a hundred percent. And, and so what do you think the evangelist brings to a church? What, what does a church need that an evangelist brings?
Jon Laframboise (08:29):
Yeah. What I think an evangelist really does, it breaks down the walls of separation between the world and the church. Now, there is a separation between the two, obviously. But it breaks down the division between the two in terms of, it puts a zeal in believers. There’s a contagious impartation, a contagious zeal, and a passion for the lost where it breaks outside of the, I’m comfortable in the four walls of the church and allows you to go out into the world to actually reach the loss and show the love of Jesus. It really brings an impartation and a zeal and a passion, but also an activation for spiritual gifts, I believe where, you know, in Acts one, eight, you know, and Jesus says, you know, go into the world and you know, or you know, you’ll be, see power. You’ve been my witnesses.
(09:11):
Right? Well, the power of God is, is meant to be a witness. It’s not meant to put on really cool conferences or revival meetings, which those things are great, but it’s meant to be a witness, right? We’re meant to go out into the world with the power to witness of the resurrection of Jesus. And I really believe that the ministry evangelists brings a drive behind that. It really brings a, a forceful, but yet also with gentle pushing outside the four walls of the church to go be the light, go be the salt, you know, go be that lamp that the world needs you to be.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:42):
So you’ve taken teams down to an area of Vancouver mm-hmm. <Affirmative> where there is huge need. So talk to me about what that area in Vancouver looks like, and then how you were able to, to evangelize there.
Jon Laframboise (09:56):
Yeah. So this area, Vancouver’s called East Tasting. It’s in the downtown’s called the downtown East side. So it’s actually right next to Roger’s place, which is where the Vancouver connects place only three blocks away. So it’s interesting where it’s multimillion dollar real estate all around it. But yet is there, is this really concentrated in a three or four block radius where it’s open intravenous drug use, it’s homelessness to the extreme. It’s massive drug and alcohol abuse. It’s, it’s it’s really a deprived area where it seems that they concentrated all these people suffering with addiction to kind of, they, they pushed them all into one area. So it’s, it’s really almost like the armpit of Canada in terms of just like, what’s, how the devil’s run rampant there. So every couple months we would take teams down there and just love on people, pray for them, you know, display the love of God, and, and just also just bringing value, trying to add an element of value to the individual.
(10:54):
Like as one particular person, I’ll never forget this and I just asked ’em how they’re doing, you know, and, you know, good, you know, very short answers. And then and I just asked him, I was like, Hey, like, what’s your story? Like, how did you end up here? And then he asked me, look at me there in the eyes and says, do you really want to know? I said, I will go. Let’s go. I’ll buy you coffee. Let’s go for lunch and share your story with me. And he starts crying and he says this, but seven years since I’ve been able to share my story with someone, seven years since anyone wanted to talk to me, like really have a meaningful conversation with me. And that’s heartbreaking, right? So we’re going down there, we’re listening to these people’s stories and just sharing and imparting the love of the father. And with them, we will pray for them, you know, and those who we see some love of breakthrough, we’ll try to get ’em connected with a local mission that’s down there, or a local recovery center. And seen some level of success in that as well. It’s been absolutely wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Earlier when we were talking, you had a, a great idea. It, you it the unique
Jon Laframboise (11:54):
Yeah. Finding your unique evangelistic expression.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:57):
So your unique evangelistic expression, and I think you should trademark that. Yeah. <laugh>, your, your u e e, right? That score. And, and, and so talk to me about that concept. When you go into a church and you’re talking to people about evangelism mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what does that mean? That, that each person would have a unique evangelism expression.
Jon Laframboise (12:16):
So I don’t feel like, for me, the way that God uses me, like I, I am bold, brash. I don’t mind walking up to a complete stranger and striking up a conversation, maybe having a word of knowledge for him or a word of encouragement for him. And and just going right into it, into that. But that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people hear that and they think, oh gosh, not in a million years uhuh, I have to have like five angels appear to me. Jesus himself has to hold me by the hand and leave me out to do that with someone. But sometimes when you, when you know, train people in evangel, when you teach ’em, that’s the cold call if you would, some people, it turns off a lot of people to it. But when you approach it with the definition I talked about earlier, you know, falling so in love with Jesus, you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together that opens a door of opportunity for anything.
(13:05):
For example, let’s say that you’re a really good baker. You know, why not ask the Lord what your neighbor’s favorite pie is, or favorite cookie or whatever it is, and bake ’em that particular pie or cook whatever it is that God leads you into. And just knock on the door, Hey, I’m so-and-so, I’m your neighbor. You know, we either you know them, you don’t know them, doesn’t matter. He’s like, I just felt like God wanted me to bake you this pie. Like, do you like apple pie? It’s like, oh, it’s my favorite pie. Like, how do, like, oh, the God told me to bake you this pie. Or you know, or whatever. Maybe you’re really good at hosting parties. You love hosting parties. Invite your neighbors in, you know, just host a really good party and, and get to know them. Be relational with them.
(13:41):
So it’s finding something in a natural that God could put his supernatural dynamic. You know, you look at Moses at the burning bush. God asks Moses, Hey, what’s in your hand? He says, well, God’s his staff. He’s familiar with his staff, you know, shepherds with it. You know, he used as a walking stick, I’m sure probably use it for self-defense. And maybe he has some cool ninja moves he did with it. Who knows, you know, <laugh>. But with this staff that he’s familiar with, God puts a supernatural dynamic behind it. And with it, he delivers an entire nation. So what is it that you’re comfortable with? What is it you’re familiar with that God gca put a supernatural dynamic behind and then use that as an opportunity to preach the gospel or, or bring deliverance to people or healing or whatever else, you know? So it’s finding out how does God use you to preach the gospel?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:28):
One of the unique challenges here in Canada is this concern that has arisen lately about hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so in the, the Charter of Rights in Canada, freedom of speech mm-hmm. <Affirmative> is guaranteed mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but there is concern that you shouldn’t use freedom of speech to, to speak in a hateful manner against someone. And the the hate is a little bit in the ears of the listener. Like if they feel like you’re, you’re saying something like, for example, if, if, if you’re preaching the gospel and they feel condemned by some aspect of, of what you’re saying, they can label that, that hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So this is a problem across Canada. Yeah. And specifically here in Calgary you have people that are, have been fined mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for what they’ve been saying. What balance do you think evangelists should have in being faithful to the, the truth of the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but also not getting fined by the government, you know, banging the laws of the government.
Jon Laframboise (15:31):
Yeah. So a lot of these fines especially here in Calgary, just passes bylaw. Like there’s a hate speech. So it’s, this particular law is just within the confines of Calgary where someone interprets it, something that’s hateful, then it’s, you know, up to a $500 fine. But even as Canada as well, a lot of it is geared towards the l gt Q to I’m, I’m not sure I’ll deal the way you put the, properly put it now. But that community where it’s, there’s an anti conversion therapy bill that’s passed. So if you counsel, if I were as a pastor, were to counsel someone, if even if they come to me saying, Hey, I’m suffering with same sex attraction and I don’t want it anymore. Legally, I can’t counsel that person because, you know, if someone found out that I can get fined and potentially go to jail.
(16:18):
So I think that minister’s, pastor’s, evangelists, absolutely, you gotta stay true to it. But in terms of the out outside the four walls of the church and presenting the gospel, you know, is it says that the holy spirits, the one is gonna convict the world of righteousness, oh, sorry, convicted world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. You know, not us, you know, in Romans two, force the goodness of God at leads, people to repentance. So it’s the gospel needs as be centered around the goodness of who Jesus is. You know? And the whole message of repent. Well, the word repent loses so much in our culture. Cause we don’t know what it means. Right? It’s what change the way you think, go a different direction. Right? It’s a thought process change. But unfortunately we, we preach it as a turner burn type thing, which is really not what it is.
(17:02):
So it’s stay true to the message of the gospel, which is Jesus loves you. You know, John 3 16 17, God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son, you know, God, everyone believes in him, should not condemned, be condemned by however lasting life. And so stay true to that fact that, you know, while we’re so enemies of God, Jesus died for us and reconciled us to the Father. Right. So it seems like before we address a sin issue the individualistic sin issue, there is the overarching sin issue that needs to be addressed, which needs forgiveness. So once someone gets saved, and then Yeah. Move into something a little bit more detailed, refined. But I think that we could stay true to the message and the truth of the gospel without addressing a particular sin, and just address the fact that you need a savior.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:49):
Right. And we all need a savior. We
Jon Laframboise (17:51):
All do. Every
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:52):
Last sinners, we’ve all done things that are wrong, and we all need the forgiveness that can Absolutely.
Jon Laframboise (17:57):
It doesn’t matter what sin we deal with, we need Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:59):
And so you feel that there’s a way to communicate the gospel that doesn’t cross over into being hate speech. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (18:07):
It’s what’s hateful was saying Jesus loves you and he wants to forgive you of your sins. Right. Of course. If someone asks you, well, what’s considered sin, then I think in that, you have to be able to carefully word it where, because what people say, well, is, is homosexuality a sin? What they’re really asking you is am is they’re asking you but their identity. Right. Because people identify with their lifestyle. It’s, it’s who I am. Right? So that’s how it becomes hate speech because you’re now, you’re def you’re speaking against me as an individual. So it’s trying to communicate in a way, let’s separate you from your lifestyle choices, right. And address you as a human being, not your lifestyle. Right. And until you can definitely preach the gospel with, without compromising the message at all, right. And still see, let’s stay true to what sin is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:54):
Well, I absolutely love that you have stayed true to your calling as an evangelist and working in Canada and in other parts of the world, and just bringing revival and bringing evangelism, getting people fired up about sharing their faith with others. And so just very honored to, to have you as a friend. And if someone is listening and they want to reach out to you, maybe invite you to come minister at their church or bring evangelism, maybe a Canadian pastor is listening, they’d like you to, to come sometime. What’s a, a good email that they can reach you at?
Jon Laframboise (19:30):
The best email to reach me at is info i n o harvest culture.com. That’s the best email for me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:38):
Awesome. Well, thank you John so much for being on. Thank the advantage of for Having Me
Jon Laframboise (19:41):
Podcast. Bless you.
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Stephen Strang | Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World
Stephen Strang leads Charisma Media. They publish Charisma Magazine which had reported on the Spirit-Empowered movement for decades. Today we talk about three books on evangelism being published by Charisma House: It’s Our Turn Now by Mario Murillo; Ignite Your Life by Barry Meguiar; & Spirit-Led Living in an Upside-Down World by Steve Strang.
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Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest, Steve Strang from Charisma Media. Thank you so much for joining me today,
Stephen Strang (00:11):
And I’m excited to be with you. You’ve, as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been excited.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
Well, I love telling people about Jesus. Now, a charisma is a legend. When I was a teenager, I remember my mom and dad were subscribed to the Charisma Magazine and we would read all the stories of what God was doing around the world. And you have really been instrumental in helping ministries tell the world about Jesus for so many years. How did you get started in the whole publishing business and, and with the vision that God gave
Stephen Strang (00:47):
You? Well, I had an interest in writing and journalism going back to high school trained to be a journalist. And you know, there’s a lot of media that don’t even touch anything Christian or spiritual. And if they do, it has to have a, a hint of scandal or controversy or something. So when the heyday of the charismatic movement there was a need for what we did, and I’ve been doing it. And, and by God’s grace, we’ve grown into lots of other kinds of media, especially as a digital age came. I like to tell people that when I started charisma, we were still using manual typewriters, literally. And of course, all that has totally changed. Now, now a lot of what we do are books and we’ve sold millions of copies of books and and a lot of them have to do with evangelism. And really evangelism needs to be a part of everything in the spiritual life. It isn’t like some people are like Christians over here, and then we’ve got these few evangelists, and it’s entirely up to them. No, it’s entirely up to all of us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so you have several books here that you are publishing right now. Let’s start by talking about your brand new book. It’s called Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World. That’s right. What is this book all about?
Stephen Strang (02:08):
Well, it’s about the power of the Holy Spirit, but in a way that’s almost like a cliche in, in especially in Pentecostal circles. Why does that exactly mean? A lot of things have been written about the Holy Spirit, everything from theological books to whatever. I try to take the look that we need that power more than ever. And I see a lot of people, even that claim to be spirit filled Christians, they don’t walk in it, they don’t experience, they’re discouraged. They feel like what I call the other side is winning again and again. And I’m saying that we have to have the power of the Holy Spirit to wa to experience the gifts of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit, just to survive. And I used the example that I heard from a preacher one time. He said that when you scuba dive the scuba gear will not keep you from getting wet, but it allows you to live in a hostile environment that would, that would kill a human being to be underwater for more than a minute or two.
(03:07):
But as long as you’ve got the scuba equipment and oxygen, you can stay down there indefinitely until the oxygen runs out. Well, to be in this upside down world. If we have the power of the Holy Spirit, we can have joy, we can have peace, we can have all these things, and we can live in this world regardless of if things are going right or not. And I think that that’s important. And then of course, if we’re gonna win the world at all or have any kind of impact on culture, it’s got to be through the power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, I tell the story that you know, as several decades ago, we got reports as far back as the 1950s that that missionaries, Christian missionaries who went from America from denominations that denied the power of the Holy Spirit when they got into countries where they had to really battled demonic forces, that they found that they couldn’t get along without the power of the Holy Spirit.
(04:05):
And they, they began receiving the baptism of Holy Spirit, you know, often from maybe meeting other missionaries or whatever. Well, they had the power to confront demonic demonic forces that we weren’t accustomed to the United States. Now granted, we have demonic forces. There’s always been sin, but guess what we are now having, we’re seeing spiritual warfare at a level we’ve never seen before. And I talk in here about evangelizing not as a specific topic, but when I talk about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, one of them is the spirit a word of knowledge. And I tell a story about Reinhart Bonky, the great evangelist who got a word of knowledge that his brother, who instead of becoming a gungho Christian, evangels had entirely gone the other way, almost in an agnostic or atheist. And his brother was going through a very difficult time.
(05:10):
His brother lived in Germany, Reinhardt was in Africa at the time, and his brother had just lost his marriage. He was considering taking his own life. He had a dream about being on a bridge. Well, at the same time, the Holy Spirit revealed to Reinhardt, he had a very similar dream, and he felt he should write his brother a letter. His brother was looking for some kind of sign that God was real. He ended up getting powerfully saved. Now, this was before the days of email, and I tell the story much, much better in the book, but it’s an example of where a word of knowledge caused someone to come to Christ. And that’s only one of many ways that the power of the Holy Spirit can help us. To me personally, it’s the boldness, it’s the confidence. It’s the reassurance that God is with you causes you to be bold instead of timid. So I think that for any, any Christian, I, in fact, I believe that the spirit filled life, or as I call it, the Spirit-led life should be normative. It should be the normal Christian life. It was in the early church. Of course, all kinds of things happen and different denominations and doctrines and so on and so forth. But it ought to be the normative Christian life in the same way the sharing Jesus should be normative.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:39):
You have documented many different moves of the Holy Spirit over the years. What sense do you get of what the Holy Spirit is doing right now?
Stephen Strang (06:51):
Well, that’s a good question, and it leads me to my next book. I believe that something, you know, things have been pretty bad, but we’re starting to see a shift. The revival at Asbury University is one example, but Mario Marillo, who people might know from the Victory Channel, and of course he’s been around since the Jesus movement.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
And Mario is a great evangelist. He is full on evangelistic. He gives the greatest altar calls. In fact, I was just at a meeting he did in Tulsa, Oklahoma recently, where they packed out the maybe center and he gave the altar call. And so many people were getting saved. They, they couldn’t even fit them all into the altar.
Stephen Strang (07:33):
Well, I happened to be at the same meeting, and I went specifically because of Mario. I was tremendously touched myself. And you’re right, he is a powerful evangelist. But he started having, during the Covid shutdown in California, where they were almost dracony in the restrictions they put on, he’s, people would flock to his tents. And now of course he’s going other. But his book, his new book, which just came out, I right after New Year’s says, it’s our turn now with the idea that God’s plan to restore America is within our reach. That’s what the subtitle is. And I, I believe, in fact, he and I talked about it, I did a podcast with him that he, he believes what’s happening at Asbury and a lot of other places is an indication that people are spiritually hungry and they’re coming to Jesus you know, even during really difficult times like Covid was and everything else that’s going on. So I think that this would encourage people, it would give them insight. No book is gonna be the answer to everything except the book, which is the Bible. But our books try to encourage people, give them hope, tell stories that they wouldn’t know otherwise. And Mario is a great example.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:53):
I would love to see God raise up a whole new generation that has the same boldness as Mario Marillo to share the gospel. Now we have another book here. It’s by Barry McGuire and it’s called Ignite Your Life. And it, it’s not specifically about evangelism, but he’s very evangelistic in it,
Stephen Strang (09:13):
Right? It really is on evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:15):
Tell, tell me about it.
Stephen Strang (09:16):
Well, Barry McGuire is from McGuire’s Car Wax. It’s a company that his grandfather founded in 1901. He really took it to great heights to where it is the number one car wax brand in the world. And he was raised a Christian, he’s been a spirit led Christian for many, many years. He tells the story of how he has shared his faith every single day for 40 years. And this is the only book he’s ever written. And it tells his story. And we talked about the fact, and I don’t, maybe I shouldn’t say this, but within the publishing world, books written on evangelism, evangelism generally don’t sell very well. Well,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:03):
I’ve got a, a bunch of books I’ve written on evangelism, and that’s probably true. <Laugh> You, you wish they would because we wanna get people fired up, right? But then a book that has the secret to success does much better.
Stephen Strang (10:17):
Well, you know, there, I could talk since I’m a publisher for a long time about that, but people don’t very often read books they ought to read. People aren’t gonna buy a book that says you need to lose weight, you know, but they’ll read a book on how to get healthy, which may include losing weight. So we, this book kind of masquerades, maybe that’s not the best verb to use, but is his story. But his whole life is about leading people to Jesus and sharing his faith and being happy. He says, you’re so happy when you do this. And, and he talks about how, how he has energy, and he’s gone through some terrible ups and downs in businesses where he almost lost his business. At one point, his, his daughter tragically died as an fairly young adult. But the Lord brought him through because he had this passion to share Jesus and passion.
(11:17):
He, he gives a new definition to Romans 8 28, which is a very common scripture. All things work together for good, and Christians like to quote that. But the rest of the verse says, all things work together for good to those who are called according to his purpose. And why does the purpose of God that none should perish so that when you’re doing God’s purpose, which is sharing your faith, getting people to come to Jesus, that that’s when all things work together. And he elaborates on it much more than I am, tells this story in a very winsome way. And he has been enormously successful in lots of different venues. He had a television program on the Discovery Channel for like 18 years now. It was car crazy. It was about all these guys that love cars and they loved to sh and if they got a car, it’s gonna get the best shine with McGuire’s wax.
(12:15):
And, you know, they talk about all these things, but I’ll give you a personal example as I got to know him. As you know, as a professional, as a friend, before we did the book several times we would go out to eat without qu without exception. Some stranger would come up during the meal and say that, you know, he used to watch his car show with his dad, and they used to polish the car together. And, you know, this is the kind of feedback you would get. But, and often Barry would witness to these people right in front of us. And he also told stories that and he would also witness the waitress or the waiter. In fact, he told a story. He was in a restaurant in Springfield, Missouri, of all places. And he, and he asked the waitress, he said, when the food comes, we’re gonna pray.
(13:11):
We’re Christians, is there something we can pray for you about? And she said, yes. She said that a family member was almost in depression, that his daughter had been raped and brutally murdered, and he was just having a horrible problem and was very discouraged, obviously. And so Barry gave her his business card and wrote his cell phone number on it. Well, she called and told him, turns out he’s a car. Crazy guy. Watched him on tv. Couldn’t believe that the Mary McGuire reached out to him. Wow. And so he called Barry, Barry was able to share with him that he lost his daughter. Now she died of a disease, not a brutal murder, and was really able to minister to the guy. And again, he tells the story much better than I am. But that’s an example. And actually, I learned from his example that when I go into a restaurant, I did it twice this week, I will ask the server their name and say, is there anything we can pray for you about?
(14:18):
And it’s very interesting to see the expression on their face just instantly. Usually they have to think a little bit about it. I’ve had waitresses break down in tears. One lady said she was having a really bad day, and we said, well, we’ll pray for you. You’re better. She came back later and said, this morning I was with a friend, as the friend died. Wow. Now they knew the friend was dying. And she went there to comfort the lady, and she said she really appreciated us praying. One time I was with a friend and we prayed or asked the waitresses, we prayed for her. About 10 minutes later, another waitress came back and said my friend was back in the kitchen telling everyone that you’re praying for her. Would you pray for me? Now, we, we don’t always get that response. Sometimes people wanna pray for world peace or the war in the Ukraine or something like that, and we’re fine.
(15:14):
We’re sometimes we just pray a blessing on people. But that is a way to move people a little bit closer to Jesus. And it opens a door instead of just being strangers, you’re someone who care. And very, very often people say, even the ones who say world, pray for world peace, will just say, I really appreciate you reaching out like that. And it’s sort of a non-threatening, socially acceptable way to do it. And you know, there are some people that are just so hostile to God that they’ll practically curse at you. And I’ve, I’ve wondered if I would experience that. And I’ve done this dozens of times and have ne have never had anybody be rude. And, but it’s also touched me that I could tell that a lot of these people has have nobody to pray for them. And there’s been several that I felt led to to pray for on an ongoing basis.
(16:08):
I mean, as the Lord would bring the them to my mind. And you know, this is evangelism at a very low level, but it’s a door opener. And Barry is a good example. And, and when I first got to know him, I said to myself, how in the world do you share the four spiritual laws with somebody every single day? <Laugh>, I found that a lot of times he would speak to someone about the Lord and it would be simple. Something as simple as praying for a waitress. But I believe that that’s valid. And the fact is he does it day in and day out. He has led many, many people to the Lord from this very simple thing. And anyone, well, first of all, is a good story. I mean, it’s an American success story. And you get to know something about his life.
(16:54):
Like you read about the life of a great man or woman of the past. He of course is still with us. But beyond that, I think that people just can catch something of his spirit. That this isn’t something you just sit in a class and you take an exam and on do, do evangelism the right way. You memorize the script, so to speak. And maybe that works for some people, but it, it doesn’t work for most people. And people just think it’s hard. I’m gonna do it wrong. I’m gonna embarrass myself. No, it needs to be an outflow of everything in your life as we’re led by the spirit of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:31):
Even if you’re passionate about cars, God can use you to bring people to Jesus. And especially in the car world, you have people that would be interested in this book who are into cars that would never go to a church. Absolutely. And so God will give him a voice to reach people.
Stephen Strang (17:47):
And he knows all the statistics when you’re with He He’ll wax eloquent about car guys, which they say include women, women can be car guys too. It’s almost like a huge fraternity or something. And, and he, we talked about this, that a lot of people that know him for television or certainly McGuire’s Car Wax, will read the book outta curiosity and they’ll get the Christian message.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:15):
Let’s talk for a moment about Charisma Media. There are a variety of ways that you help a lot of ministries. You, you have articles that go up every day about what God is doing around the world. You also have a podcast network, and I have several friends that are on your podcast network and, and you’ve helped a lot of people start to have a voice in different areas that that wouldn’t have been able to do it without you. And you have this, this, this publishing. How can people find out more about what you do?
Stephen Strang (18:49):
Well, we have many websites. They could go to charismamedia.com, they could go to my own website, which is stevestrangbooks.com. Find out the books I’ve written. I’ve only written a handful of books. I’ve published a lot more. And but, you know, this is not about us. Yes, we’d like for them to subscribe to our charisma news.com website or our website for Charisma Magazine, so on and so forth. But we’re just trying to do what we can to get out the message. And we’re blessed to live in a great country where people can afford to buy books or they can afford to buy magazines. Although a lot of the things like podcasts and other things, and the websites of course, are absolutely free supported by advertising. But but I’d like to, I could tell people that with my book, it can be pre-ordered on amazon.com.
(19:41):
It, it won’t be released until May 15th, which is just a few days before Pentecost Sunday. Actually, the pre-orders help us Amazon holds onto the pre-orders and then they bill your credit card when they ship you the book, the day it comes out. And it helps get a momentum going. The New York Times looks at all those numbers, so it would help me if you wanna help me by ordering it. These other books are available in stores. You know, we like to say wherever Christian Books are sold, that’s not literally true because you always miss some places going, buying it from some of the online book sellers, including our own. It’s called My Charisma shop.com, where you’re buying directly from the publisher, but it’s usually easier for people cuz they have an Amazon account setup, Duane, Amazon, and these, these are great books. I just got the numbers this week.
(20:34):
They’re both doing very well as new books and, and I’m just you know, we do many books and yes, they’re all important, but I, but I believe so strongly in both of these books, these books that I’m wanting to push them. And I will just say that when I was 20 years old, if you can imagine me being 20 years old, I was in impacted by Mario, who’s a few years older than I am. He was already a dynamic fiery evangelist. And I went to a conference, actually, I went, actually after I was so impacted the first time I made it a point to go to some other conferences he was at, and actually went to Resurrection City in Berkeley, which was what they called their ministry back in the day. I was powerfully impacted by him, had no idea that our lives would intertwine like this. And I’m just really honored to be able to publish his book.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:30):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I I’m very thankful for your life. I remember a few years ago charisma did a little article about our ministry and, and since I’d grown up reading Charisma, I was like, wow, now I’ve really made it in ministry. So thank you so much for your,
Stephen Strang (21:46):
It’s not just a one and done. You know, as, as stories happen, as new initiatives are taking place we like reporting that people are tired of just bad news. People are tired thinking that Christians are always losing. No, there’s a lot of good things going on and part of our place in the media ecosphere is to report these kinds of things. So you need to help us by letting us know what God is doing in your ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:18):
Thank you Mr. Strang. Appreciate you being on The Evangelism Podcast.
Stephen Strang (22:21):
Thank you for the honor.
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Lewis Alexander | Great Commandment Network
Lewis Alexander is an expert on discipleship with the Great Commandment Network. He has created a discipleship diagnosis. This tool breaks down the discipleship process into forty distinct outcomes that a Spirit-Empowered disciple needs. On today’s podcast we talk about how the evangelist can connect evangelism and discipleship.
The Great Commandment Network: https://www.greatcommandment.net/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Louis Alexander from the Great Commandment Network. Thank you for being on the podcast with me. Yeah,
Lewis Alexander (00:14):
Absolutely. Daniel, thank you for inviting me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Now, you are a discipleship expert. Expert. let’s start, if you could just tell me what does the Great Commandment Network do?
Lewis Alexander (00:27):
Oh, well, we partner with churches and ministries, denominations around the, the great commandment, loving God and loving others, and then fulfilling the Great Commission, which we think the Great Commandments in the Great Commission where Jesus said, you know, make disciple makers and teach them to observe all that I’ve commanded you. And we think the great commandment is something that was the starting point, you know to love God. And perhaps even the starting point for evangelism is to love God, the heart soul minus strength, and then love our neighbors, or so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Now sometimes great commission and great commandment have kind of been separated, but I think we really need to include both in, in what we’re thinking about. And, and then sometimes people separate evangelism and discipleship. Like you say you’re an evangelist and they say, well, what are you doing to really disciple people? But you know, every discipleship begins with evangelism. Absolutely. And so we really need both. We need good evangelism, but then we also need to take the people that respond to the gospel message and begin to raise them up Yes. In the things of the Lord. And you have actually done some really deep thinking on the discipleship process. You’re part of the, the e Empowered 21 Discipleship Commission. Yes. And over the last 12 years, you guys have been working to define spirit empowered discipleship and what that looks like. And kind of talk to me about the process and, and how you’ve been developing this.
Lewis Alexander (02:03):
Yeah, yeah. Daniel, thank you for those questions. You know, we started with the Ephesians for 11 and 12 that God gave some as apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the works of service, works of their ministry. And so we kind of started with the premise, Daniel, that saints serve. And so we we took that word serve and we looked at the Greek and Hebrew words throughout the scriptures. And there were a couple of Hebrew words that we drilled down on and the scripture verse in the Old Testament associated with them. And then several New Testament words. And we did a cluster analysis and they clustered around four dimensions that a disciple, cuz we wanted to explore, you know, what would a disciple look like if one showed up?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:54):
And so you’re trying to define Yeah. What good discipleship looks like. Yes. And, and, and how to help people grow. And so by clearly defining this, then you can measure different areas where maybe a church or ministry is being successful in discipling people and then other areas where they need to work on.
Lewis Alexander (03:14):
Yes. Because we were, we were thinking, our former perspectives on discipleship wasn’t really working. We weren’t making disciple makers, you know, who make disciples. And so, you know, a lot of the models, discipleship models were more of a rational behavioral methodology. And we found that not being effective, it wasn’t spirit empowered. So we ended up starting with a premise that these need to be relational. You know, the great commandment is very relational. Love God, love your neighbor. That’s, that’s very relational, that they could only be fulfilled. Part couldn’t only, could only be fulfilled through spirit empowerment. So there, there isn’t any of our outcomes in there of like a disciple memorize the scripture because you could be a lost person and memorize scripture <laugh>. Now we’re gonna imply that it’s memorizing scripture is, is necessary. But these outcomes, we wanted to make sure they were spirit empowered.
(04:17):
And and certainly as we, you know, as we do evangelism, you know, we want to be led by the spirit and empowered by the spirit cuz it’s, it’s a work of the spirit in which people come to Christ. So that was important to us. And so they clustered around these four areas of loving the Lord when we did this cluster analysis of the word for serve loving the Lord or serving the Lord, serving his word, ministering the word men, loving, serving and loving people, ministering to people and serving his mission.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:50):
Okay. So you have these four different areas, Uhhuh, <affirmative>, that you are evaluating. So you’ve got loving the Lord, living his Word, loving people, and living his mission. Yes. And under each one of these different categories, you have 10 outcomes Yes. Of what it would look like to be successful for someone to, to grow in those areas. Yeah. All right. So let’s start with the first one, loving the Lord. Yeah. What are some of the outcomes Yeah. That you’re looking for under loving the Lord?
Lewis Alexander (05:23):
So, for example, we, I’ll get, I’ll talk about L two, which we call loving the Lord and the kin, number two of learning to listen to and hear God. And certainly, you know, in evangelism, I want to be listening to the Lord. I mean, you know, just give you a couple of biblical antidotes, you know, of Jesus when he tells his disciples, we must needs go to Samaria. And Jesus didn’t, Jews didn’t do that. And that word must needs die in, in the Greek delta epsilon iot is means in, in, in the king, in the King James has translated must needs. We, we gotta go. I’m, I’m listening to him. I’m hearing my father and he’s saying, go, go through Samaria. And Jews didn’t do that. But so right off the bat, Jesus is challenging some of the assumptions of his disciples, and they’re going to Samaria and he’s hanging out by a well, as you would know Daniel.
(06:18):
And, and this woman comes. And so he’s waiting on a woman and listening, listening to the Lord waiting on a woman. And she comes and he has this conversation with her. And, you know, the John four passage. And I’m sure it was a shock to disciples because apparent, you know, rabbis don’t really talk to women, but apparently this one does. But listening to and hearing God, you know, and, and the Lord will will guide us. I mean, Jesus was walking through Jericho and, you know, he stops at a tree and looks up and it’s, it’s that kiss. And he welcomes him down. You know, the welcome Matt’s out and arms open. And but I think that came from any said again that use that same Greek word, we must needs go to your house. And so we think that Jesus is listening to and hearing God, and that that’s probably an important outcome that we would. All right. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
All that is under L two listening to and hearing God for direction in discernment. And so yes, you would want people to grow in that as they go through the disciple Yeah. And ship process. So some of the different categories that you would have are outcomes that you’re looking for under loving the Lord would be practicing Thanksgiving and all things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> experiencing God as he really is through deepened intimacy with him. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> rejoicing regularly in my identity as his beloved. And so you’ve got 10 outcomes there. Yes. And then the second area is living the word.
Lewis Alexander (07:43):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:44):
What are some of the outcomes that you’re looking for under living the word?
Lewis Alexander (07:47):
Yeah. Let’s, so we, we kind of sometimes talk about I’ll put my glasses on here so I can read <laugh> you know, do the book. So I’ll just talk about w two for a minute there. Which is outcome number two under, under the word living the word, being in a living epistle, you know, so that we’re you know, people are reading our lives, Daniel. So hopefully they’re gonna be filling the vibe from me of this guy is a safe guy. You know, we’re if I’m sitting by you on a plane and, you know we’re having a conversation, you feel safe and you feel like you can trust me and we can have this conversation. And I’ve, I’ve led people to Christ on airplanes just by trying to, to have this vibe of being a living epistle, of wanting to know and care about them, you know, in, in my life.
(08:45):
And I remember can I share a little amdo story with you? So I was, I was on a plane from Charles de Gall Paris flying to Istanbul, and it’s about a four and a half hour flight. And I had done it, you know, several times. And so I know what I’m in for. You gotta sit there and you don’t know who’s gonna sit by you. And so having some of these human interest questions like, you know, tell me one of your your most celebratory days. And so I’m sitting by this guy named Moot Lou, and he’s he’s a Turkish businessman. He’d been selling forklifts in Paris. And you know, I know I’m, I’m sitting by him for four and a half hours, so I wanna show interest in his life, you know, try to bridge to the gospel somehow.
(09:31):
And so I’m just asking him, I said, Hey, you know what, tell me about your, you know, one of your most celebratory moments in your life. And so here again, this is a Muslim guy, he’s from Turkey, and I’m an American Christian, so we’re worlds apart, you know, <laugh> and in terms of worldview. But I ask him, tell me about a time of rejoicing. And he tells me about when he got engaged with his wife, and he, you know, where he met her. He met her in a supermarket. Wow. I mean, all of a sudden this kind of me too moment of man, you know, guys in, in, in the states tried to pick up chicks in the supermarket too, you know, <laugh>. And he got her phone number in the line, and and you know, they went out and they dated for a couple years, you know, he brought her back to that same checkout line and proposed marriage to her.
(10:22):
And so he spends 45 minutes telling me this story, and, you know and I’m, I’m showing interest. I’m giving them my contact, I’m listening, you know, I’m, I have a smile on my face. I’m, I’m rejoicing with him. You know, I’m doing the Bible verse of, you know, Romans 1215, I’m trying to make a human connection. And so I’m trying to be a living epistle of Romans 1215. And and after 45 minutes, he said, well, what do you do? I said, well, I teach people how to love each other. And he was <laugh>. He couldn’t believe he was, he was like, what? And so I was able to just kind of tell him about why I do that and the love that Christ has for me, and I’m the beloved of God. And he had, he, I, you know, he was coming from a, obviously a Muslim background and the Quran, and I told him Jesus stories. I spent, you know, probably a, an hour or so just telling him Jesus stories. And he was so intrigued. He had never heard about Jesus, even Washington, his disciples, feet, things like that. And I seated the gospel, he didn’t pray to receive Christ that day, but he got a heavy dose of, of gospel. And that came from trying to be a living epistle on the plane.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:37):
Wow. That’s a great story. I really like how you’ve broken these 40 discipleship goals down into different outcomes that you’re looking for. So how do you measure Yeah. If someone is growing in these areas? Yeah.
Lewis Alexander (11:54):
Yeah. Thanks for asking. Right now we have a self-assessment of a lacker scale of one to five, you know, where going from, you know, I strongly disagree to, I strongly agree. And you just sort of self-identify where you would score yourself. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:14):
And sometimes just asking the question makes people realize like, Hey, I, I could grow. I need to grow in this area. Yeah.
Lewis Alexander (12:21):
Yeah. And then, you know, once you can identify that you know, you, you’re growing your self-awareness of identifying, oh yeah, you know, I, I need to work at learning to and listen learning to listen to and hear God. And maybe I don’t, maybe I need to ask God more. You know, God lead me who, who, who today can I share my faith with? And lead me to opportunities and see, see if the Lord is prompting you. But the more we start, you know, bringing that top mind and I can start moving the needle, you know, from a maybe a, a two mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that I disagree, that I’m listening to and hearing God to, maybe I move it to a four that, you know, I’m, I’m agreeing, I’m, I’m, I’m more consciously aware of that in my life and I’m trying to do that more.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:10):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Absolutely. if someone is interested in finding out more about what you do or more about the Great Commandment Network, what is your website?
Lewis Alexander (13:23):
Yeah, it’s great commandment, great commandment.net, and you’ll find a bunch of resources on there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
And, and tell me a little bit more about what the Great Commandment Network does. Okay.
Lewis Alexander (13:34):
Yeah. We are a resource training ministry, and we partner with denominations and movements around the Great com, great commandment, great commission. Yeah. and so we provide resources to address freedom adequacy motivation in fulfilling the Great commandment, great commission. You know, sometimes I may want to do that, but I may have freedom issues, I may have my own fears, I may have unresolved pain or sometimes it’s adequacy. And so we create these resources. We have a lot of online resources.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:13):
You have complete courses, courses that people can go through, Uhhuh, <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and, and learn about all this. And also how they can implement discipleship in their life and in their ministries. Yeah. Well, brother Lewis, thank you so much Yes. For being on the the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you
Lewis Alexander (14:29):
For asking
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:30):
Me. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Daniel.
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Ron Luce | Reaching the Next Generation for Jesus
Ron Luce was the legendary leader of Teen Mania. For over thirty years he has done stadium events around the world and taken thousands of teenagers on mission trips. He is driven with a passion to reach the Next Generation for Jesus. Today you will hear about his vision for Project 13 and for Jesus Global Youth Day. He also gives me advice as a parent for how to raise my teenager to love Jesus.
Learn more about Ron Luce: https://generationnext.me/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today we have a very special guest. He is a legend Ron Lu. For over 30 years, you have been passionate about reaching young people for Jesus. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ron Luce (00:19):
Sure. It’s great to be with you, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:21):
Well, let’s start at the beginning. How did you first get this passion from God for reaching the next generation?
Ron Luce (00:29):
Well, there’s nothing I asked for. I just got on fire for Jesus when I was 16. And even in my years right after that, at o u I started reaching out to young people. Cause I figured if God could get to me, I was the worst rascal of the bunch he could get to anybody. So I started in youth ministry while I was a student. And then right after I graduated from oru. My wife and I started in this ministry called Team Mania, which we developed a number of facets. One of them was acquired the fire conferences. And so by the grace of God, he let us stand in front of a lot of young people and, and our whole heart was let’s present the gospel in a fresh way. In maybe a way, even if you’ve been in church your whole life, that you’ve never understood it before.
(01:16):
And if you’ve never been in church a way that you’ve never, it’s never dawned on you. And then invite them to go on the, on a mission trip because we figured if we can get ’em for a weekend at a conference, that’s great, but if we can get ’em for two weeks, for a month on a mission field, we’ll wreck ’em forever in a good way. You know, we’ll wreck ’em for the American Dream and all that. So we took thousands of young people on mission trips over the years, thousands of thousands to some 80 different countries teaching them to share their faith and have quiet time and to, you know, all the, you know, discipleship kinds of things. And then they teach ’em to go back home and go change the world. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:51):
Yeah, team Mania had such a tremendous impact on so many young people. And I remember when I was about 14 or 15 years old, I lived in El Paso, Texas and you were doing acquire the Fire, I think here in Albuquerque. And so I was on a youth bus. We drove up here. There are thousands of people there and you just challenged us to live for God, and you gave an altar call and I was already saved. I grew up in a Christian home and my parents were missionaries, but I wanted to make double sure that I was going to heaven. And so I responded to that. Yeah. even as a, as a young person and just that, that challenge to, to give your whole life for God.
Ron Luce (02:36):
Well, and you know, we were, we’ve ki we kind of got branded as the Oh, you’re the radical guys. Cuz we would challenge people like read through the Bible in a whole year, like the whole Bible in a year kind of a thing. Or break up with your girlfriend or boyfriend and date God for a year. Like radical stuff. And other youth ministries are like, yeah, you don’t need to be that ra we want everybody to go on a mission trip, even if you’re not called full-time, just go one time. And, but think that’s how Jesus was. You know, he didn’t water anything down. He like, like, eat my flesh, drink my blood, or you have no part of me. And then people started leaving, he goes, anybody else wanna leave? Kind of thing. And so there, there is something to, I think the, what we found over the years is the more radical, the more you ask for, the more of their heart and their life they’ll give to Christ.
(03:19):
You know? And so if you ask for less, that’s what you’ll get. And you end up wa wondering why they respect their football coach more than they respect the youth pastor. Well, the football coach demands more out of them, you know, kind of a thing. You’re going to, you’re gonna sweat bullets, you’re gonna sweat blood, you’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you know, in all of this Eat nails. And then the in mu usually in the youth ministry where they’re like begging people to come back. Coach doesn’t beg people to come back. If you don’t come, you’re off the team kind of a thing. So anyways we just, we found that like even the devotionals that we did, you know, to help young people grow in their faith, the tougher they were, the better kids came back and go, this changed my life, this changed my life. But it was like a whole bunch of memory, scripture, memory and things like that. So.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:02):
And so now your ministry is called Generation Next. Yep. And you’re really still focused on reaching the next generation. Right. How have things changed since you started? It seems like in some ways the, the young people today are dealing with even greater challenges than they were 30 years ago.
Ron Luce (04:21):
Well, there’s a lot of challenges and you don’t have to look very far to find them with technology and social media and pornography and all kinds of things. However if you look at data still, most people come to Christ before they’re 20. You know, the, and the closer you can get to 13 years old, the, the, the more likely, you know, we’ve had this, this thought in kind of youth ministry culture that if you get the cool football players saved at 1617, then he’ll influence the youngers. Well, we keep trying, but we don’t reach those guys that are not influencing. And so, but the data shows that the closer you get to 13, the more likely they are to come to Christ. So one thing that’s really beautiful that hasn’t changed is that sort of, that Bar Mitzvah age 12, 13, 14, the openness to the gospel, the openness to Christ.
(05:06):
And so in fact, one of the things we learned as I, I spent several years studying churches around the world, Lord of the most remarkable at reaching and discipling the young generation. And one of the things that I found they have in common is, I found ’em mostly outside of America, was that they really focus on reaching them when they’re 12 to 14, like the, the sweet spot, reach ’em then, and then put ’em on a pathway of growth, of radical growth in their faith for the next seven years. So that they end up at 20, 21 years old. Like they want ’em like you would hope that they would turn out lot, lot like just get ’em saved and hope for the best or get ’em saved and just bring ’em to church. But they actually put them in a rigorous, we call it deep dive disciple making, like they’re really growing intensely and they’re helping other people grow.
(05:53):
So we call it Project 13 and helping churches to adopt these best practices that we found. Because, you know, we, I love big events. I’ve stood in front of millions of kids, but big events are not enough. You have to have a process that the church falls in love with because it’s a life giving process that takes a new follower of Christ in terms of them into a solid believer that’s then multiplying their faith. Most churches kind of would ascent to that. Like yeah, they’ll nod their head, but they don’t know how to, so this is what we learned from these churches, how to, and now we’re just trying to make it simple for churches to adopt it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:27):
Okay. So let me ask you a question as a parent, last week, my son Caleb turned 13 and he’s already been acting congratulations, like a teenager for about six months. Yeah. And now he is a teenager. And so I’ve just been praying, God give me wisdom on how to raise this young man to love God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> what advice would you give me as a parent to, to raise this 13 year old to be close to
Ron Luce (06:56):
Jesus? Well,
(06:58):
First of all, I would encourage you to start right now a, a a a set of like a, a set of practices or a, a habit or almost fo like spiritual folklore where say, Hey, through your teen years, I want to see you become a better follower of Jesus. So at 13 we’re gonna do this, and at 14 we’re gonna do this. At 15 we’re gonna do this. Part of what that can be is taking discipleship tools and going through them together. So you don’t have to sit there, I’m so wise I’ll teach you. But like, hey, let’s go through this book together and then talk about it once a week. What’s the Lord teaching you? What do the Lord speak to your heart? So some of the tools we develop to help churches do this, and parents are using ’em as well, is like there’s a daily quiet time thing.
(07:44):
So they’ll write stuff down, what does this first mean to you? And then at the end of the week, there’s questions that you can discuss some questions. So what that does is it makes it makes first of all use a parent a sign of respect to your young person. Like, Hey, what did the Lord speak to you? What do you think that meant? You know, and you also get ’em in habit, like of having quiet times and talking about it, having quiet times, applying the scripture and talking about it. So if you do it all through their 13 year, and then they’re 14th year and they’re 15, this is part of what we
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:13):
Do. It’s by the time they’re 18, they’re, they’ve love
Ron Luce (08:15):
Jesus. All the fundamentals. They’re don’t just love Jesus, but they’ve developed character in their life and like they’re, they’re hardcore. You’ve memorized scriptures together, you did all, you’ve kind of been on a journey together. So that’s what I really encourage all parents take your kids on a journey with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:30):
That’s awesome. I’ll definitely do that. You also have the Jesus Global Youth Day. Tell me about that.
Ron Luce (08:38):
Well, we did our first one a couple years ago, we had about 50,000 young people come from 30 different nations. And it’s sort of a it was a global event that we signed Mal Casta to like a hundred thousand churches around the world and where they were gathering young people. And it was a kind of a, a stake in the let’s, let’s let a generation stand up for Christ and let the world see. But it also is a way to make the church aware the global church, like we need to, we, the church need to focus on young people and and let them know they’re important. Let them know they’re valued. And help pastors then have tools to go back to their nation, to their city, to their town and reach and disciple the young generation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:21):
What do you see happening in this generation? Are there signs of hope?
Ron Luce (09:28):
Well, of course in the last few weeks we’ve seen this thing at Asbury and some other schools, and I think that can be a sign of hope a beginning of something. I would just encourage people you know, for a long time what we’ve heard is for a strategy reaching the next generation, just pray for another Jesus movement, Jesus revolution. Which is really not a strategy. I mean, it’s, it’s great that it looks like it may be starting to happen, but sometimes people look back at the Jesus movement back in the sixties and seventies and they see it with rose colored glasses. There were a lot of problems too, like a lot of churches didn’t want those young people and a lot of people got saved that didn’t get discipled. So this is the chance for us as a church to go, okay, if this is really the Lord breathing on a generation, let’s lean in and do our part. They’re coming to Christ. Let’s en welcome them in our church. Let’s make sure they’re growing in their faith. They’ve had an encounter with Christ, but an encounter is not enough. They have to have repeated encounters, but they have to grow deep in their faith. And so the discipleship side of this thing, really helping them grow deep in their faith is essential. And so that we don’t have some of the catastrophes that did happen in the Jesus movement in the sixties and seventies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:38):
I have so much respect for you and just honor you for just giving your life for so many years, for, for young people, if someone’s listening and they want to connect with you and take advantage of your, your resource, I know you’ve written a bunch of books, you have a lot of material. What’s the best way for them to find out more about
Ron Luce (10:56):
You think? You just go to GenerationNext.me, me and you can find out all everything you’d want to know about our resources, discipleship Tools, project 13, Global Youth Day, all kinds of things.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:08):
Well, thank you so much.
Ron Luce (11:11):
Keep up the good work takes all of us doing our part
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:13):
Right. Amen. Thank you.
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John Albiston | Coaching Churches for Growth
John Albiston is a church growth expert who works with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. He grew a church from 300 to 1,500 people in a span of five years. The last year he was there he saw seven hundred salvations. Then he was asked to help the one hundred and twenty churches in his district to grow. Today he shares some simple secrets that are guaranteed to lead to church growth.
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Connect with John Albiston: https://albiston.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest with me, John Albertson. And you are with the Pentecostal Assemblies here in Canada, and you are a church coach. And so I love coaching, I especially love coaching evangelists, but you’re going into churches, helping churches to grow, helping them to think strategically about how to reach their community. So how did you get started doing that?
John Albiston (00:32):
Well, my story was my last church our church grew from 300 to 1500 people in the span of five years. And the last we were there, we saw over 700 salvations. That’s when I got a phone call from the Pentecostal Assemblies just saying, John, would you like to show other churches how to do that? And I was like, yes, I would love to show other churches how to do that. And that’s when we got started. I got started doing that in 2017. And when we started here in our district, we’ve got about 120 churches. We ran the numbers and we found that only 18% of our churches were growing. 82% of our churches were either plateaued or in decline. We’re happy to say that within a couple of years, by 2019, we had doubled the number of growing churches and doubled the number of annual reported salvations.
(01:26):
So we, our churches weren’t growing because we were trying to convince Baptists to come to our church instead. But no, we were genuinely reaching unchurched people in our community. Now Covid hit that threw our numbers right out the window. But now that we’re coming out of C O V and started re getting our, our bearings, it’s looking like we’ve got pretty close to 50% of our churches growing. And by the end of the year, we think we might be able to get 60% of our churches are growing, accomplishing real great commission salvation growth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so what are some of the things that you are helping churches with when you are encouraging them to reach out to their community?
John Albiston (02:05):
Well, one of the first things is just to understand their own purpose as a church and what they need to do in order to grow by reaching lost people. Because if you want your church to grow, what you need to do is you need to reach people in your community, bring them in, introduce them to Jesus, and then have them stay and learn how to follow him. Now, when I have conversations with pastors, like, are you doing that? Are you reaching people, introducing them to Jesus and then teaching them to follow him? The answer is, oddly enough, no. You know, we’ve been trained in Bible school and seminary, how to run services. You know, I was trained on how to be an ec eal preacher. I wasn’t taught how to speak to non-Christians. I wasn’t taught how to disciple non-Christians. You know, when when someone accepts Jesus their savior, what’s the first five things I’m supposed to teach ’em? I don’t know that that was never a class. So organizing our Church of War, actually accomplishing our mission is just something that most of us as pastors were never trained to do. And before we were too eager to blame our professors. Nobody trained those guys how to do that either. So if we want our churches to grow, that’s what we need to focus on doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:22):
I think one of the challenges is that everyone who pastors a church has been around churches for a very long time, and so they don’t look through the eyes of a visitor or a first time guest or someone who is seeking spiritual enlightenment, who just wanders into the church. What would you tell a church to help them to make that person feel welcome?
John Albiston (03:52):
Well, I’d tell ’em a few things. One, just the importance of it. As a general rule of thumb, on any given Sunday, 96% of the people in the room are your own people. And it’s so easy and so comfortable just to focus on that. 96%, only 4% of the people in the room are first time visitors. So if I focus on my 96%, I, I know they’re vocabulary, we’re comfortable through vocabulary. When I use churchy vocabulary words, they like it. We all know what
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:23):
The rows of Sharon
John Albiston (04:24):
Is. Oh, that’s right. Like it, it just like home. Feels like home. The problem is 100% of your growth comes from the 4% and just put yourself in in, in their shoes for a second. I mean, it’s a golden rule. Like Jesus teaches us to do this. Say you’re, you know, Larry from across the street you come home from a business trip and your wife is gone. You thought you had a good marriage, but now the house is empty and you realize everything that I’ve believed about the success of my life is falling apart. And all of a sudden God is speaking to them. And if they’re like, you know what? I’m gonna try something crazy. Maybe I can find hope at church. And so I go in my desperation and need for God, I go to the church across the street and what do I hear is a sermon about Calvinism versus Arminianism?
(05:13):
And then I realize, yeah, you know what? It was a really stupid idea to come here. Okay? We we’re not talking to the people who need the gospel the most. We’re not sharing the gospel. Most churches don’t preach the gospel. Yeah, maybe if you’ve been there for a couple years, you’ll pick it up a bit. But we’re just not focusing on our job, on how we reach our community. We’re just focusing on our frozen chosen. And that’s not good for our people either, because quite frankly, they’re gonna be living kind of a weak and limp Christian life. If you’re living the Christian life where I go to a church where people are getting saved all the time, where I can invite my non-Christian friends in and I know they’re gonna have a fantastic time in their encounter. God, that’s very exciting for me. And even if I’m an introvert, it’s easy for me to invite <laugh> somebody, somebody to something I know they’re gonna love. So if I know that you’re a fanatical football fan and I’ve got two tickets to the game, it’s easy for me to invite you cuz I know you’re gonna love it. And when our churches are places where I know when you come, you’re gonna feel welcome. You’re gonna understand what’s gonna go on, and you’re gonna meet Jesus. It’s easy and exciting for me to invite you to that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:35):
And even to create that culture of people inviting their friends, I, I’m amazed as I travel the churches all over North America, every weekend I, I minister in a different place and I walk into a bunch of churches and there’s no signs showing where the children’s ministry is. There’s no sign saying whether the coffee is free or you’re supposed to throw a dollar in the, the cup there, there’s no sign showing where the bathrooms are. Like you can wander around the church for a long time just trying to find the bathroom. And I’m like, this isn’t friendly for visitors. Like, you’re not even thinking about visitors coming to the church.
John Albiston (07:17):
Oh, absolutely. That, that is a major problem. And it’s, again, we’re focusing on the 96%, we’re ignoring the four. And it, it’s such a tragedy of opportunity. So here’s the math of it. 4% of the people in your church on any given Sunday are first time visitors. Next Sunday it’s a different 4%, and next Sunday it’s a different 4% different 4%. And when you add that up over 52 weeks, you get a 200%. So you take the average attendance of your church, say it’s a hundred, over the next 12 months, you’re gonna have 201st time visitors. What would happen to your church if you kept half of them? You know? But we’re losing them because we’re ignoring them. We’re not putting ourself in their shoes. Yeah. That includes signage
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:06):
Or even know where to park. You come into the parking lot and where’s a visitor supposed to park? Or Absolut? Is there even a parking place for them?
John Albiston (08:13):
Absolutely. And when someone comes in, does anybody talk to me? Does anybody engage? Now a lot of our churches will have greeters, you know, who’ll say, hi, welcome. But I’ve, my local Walmart has greeters who say, hi, welcome. When I walk in, and I’ve been going to Walmart for I think 40 years, and in all those years, you know how many Walmart employees have gotten to know my name? Like Zero. Do you know how many friends I’ve ever made at Walmart? Zero. being friendly, whoopie, doof, we can find friendly anywhere. What we can’t find anywhere is friends. And so we need to actually love and care for those people that God are sending us because they’re already coming to our church. They’re coming in droves, people that God is calling them. And it’s hard for them to get here. Like we need to understand their journey.
(09:07):
I’ve, I’ve heard so many stories of people who would tell me that it took them three or four attempts to come to our church because they drive in, they were parked in the parking stall, white knuckling the steering wheel for 20 minutes before driving away in tears because they were too scared to come in the door. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. We don’t know the journey that they’re going through, and when they come in and we just ignore them and we’re blind to them and we don’t care for them. If you come into my church and nobody cares for you, you don’t feel loved. I can be on the stage standing on my head, juggling fire, talking about the love of God, and you will
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:48):
Not believe I’ve tried that before. I’ve tried to juggle fire
John Albiston (09:51):
<Laugh>. You won’t believe me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:53):
Yeah.
John Albiston (09:53):
But if you come in here and you feel welcome and you feel loved and you feel part of the family and like, you’re not getting just like a fake Walmart greeting that No, I feel included. I’ve never been in a place like this. I’ve never met people like, here, what is going on here? And then I talk about the love of God. You are gonna believe me because you’ve already experienced it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:16):
So walk me through the process as you’re coaching a church, what recommendations do you give them for the, for the ushers, for the song service, for the offering time, for the message, for the altar call, for the follow up process. Kinda walk me through what an ideal process would look like for a visitor.
John Albiston (10:40):
So if a church is at that stage that like, hey, they actually wanna reach people, because sometimes I have to deal with stuff like, we don’t care about a lost people <laugh>, so we have to,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
So that’s a theological and a heart issue. That’s
John Albiston (10:50):
Right. So sometimes, you know, when I’m going into coaching church, that’s what we need to do the work. But they’re ought that if they’re at this stage where no, no, we wanna reach our community, what do we do? The fundamental principle is the golden rule. Put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. When I walk in here, do I know what to do when the service starts? Are you speaking in plain English? So just talk about like, choosing lyrics for your songs. There’s a, a song that’s popular in a number of churches called Reckless Love. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or not, but if you look at the lyrics of that song, 95% of that song’s gonna make sense to anybody in your community. Like, there’s one line about he leaves the 99, okay? They’re not gonna get the reference, but most of that song makes perfect sense. They’re gonna understand what we’re talking about. There’s another song that are, that is popular. Our God is the lion. The lion of Judah. Our God is the lamb. The lamb. Who is slain? Who’s Judah? Well, he’s one of the 12 patriarchs. Why are we singing about him? What’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Patriarch? Well, because
John Albiston (11:50):
The messianic lion goes through the lion of Judah. Why are we talking about lions? Oh, that’s symbolic. It refers to the Davidic kingdom. Who’s kingdom, okay. You see? So David was one of the descendants of Judah. Messianic line not only goes through Judah, but also goes through through David. Now Lamb saying you need not understand the sacrificial system and the Old Testament, how that pre prefigures Christ and Leviticus and the Lan of course, and Nasco logical figure, we’ve seen a book of revelation. Okay? That’s what you need to know for the song to make any sense. Okay? Did we have to make the climb that steep like half the time when people come in to our churches and don’t encounter Christ? It’s not that they rejected what we were saying, they just didn’t even understand what we were saying. It was just confusing. Gobbly good.
(12:28):
Our sermons are no better. And for our churches who actually do attempt to preach the gospel, we’re preaching the gospel in Christianese gobbly book, and they just don’t understand the words that are coming out of our mouth. So the first thing you want your church to have an impact on, people preach and sing with clarity, not to water things down. And we’re not trying to avoid offending people. I mean, we’re not gonna poke people in the eye, but okay, that’s not what we’re focusing on, is inoffensive sermons. We’re focusing on clear sermons that anybody coming in is gonna understand what we’re saying. So when it comes to the gospel, for example, I understand theologically that repentance and faith kind of a big deal when it comes to accepting Christ. But I also know that the people I’m trying to reach have never heard those words and don’t know what they mean.
(13:19):
Now, I know from studying Hebrew that the word repent, that the Hebrew route is make a u-turn. It’s how you give directions. Like go down fourth Street in repent <laugh>. So I will be on the stage walking one direction saying, I’ve been going down my own road. I’ve been the master of my fate captain of my destiny living my life the way I want to. Well, that ends here. Jesus talking about making a U-turn and following him, even when it’s scary, even when I don’t understand, I’m putting my whole life in his hands. Everything that I am, my hopes, my dreams, my sorrows, my shame, you know, my anger, my hurts. I’m putting everything I am in his hands and trusting him to make me to someone new as I follow him in a new life, in a new direction. So I explained both repentance and faith without necessarily using those words.
(14:13):
Okay? That’s a skillset we have to develop because I was raised in a church. Christianese is my mother tongue. I speak English as a second language <laugh>. So are we preaching with clarity? Are we singing with clarity? When you preach, you know, when you, for your own people, when you preach clearly in plain English, guess what your people learn in plain English. Because if I preach in gobbly G your congregation learns it in gobbly G. And then when they go out to the workforce, when they go out to the baseball game, when they go out to anything else, the only thing they know is gobbly go. Why would we be surprised that our people in our congregation are so ineffective at reaching their friends? But if we preach in plain English and explain the gospel in plain English, we’re equipping our people in plain English to reach their friends and neighbors in plain English.
(15:08):
So you wanna make the biggest difference in your congregation in being able to reach newcomers and actually seeing your own people be more effective at evangelism and discipleship. Learn how to speak in plain, ordinary English. It’s a discipline. It’s hard. People don’t know what discernment means. You, if you have to use the word, take 10 seconds, explain it to explain it. Don’t make a casual reference. Hey, just like Joseph, you know, okay, who’s Joseph? Okay, take 10 seconds to explain, give people on-ramps to what you’re talking about. And that is probably gonna make the biggest difference.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:47):
What about the follow up process for that 4%? How do we close the back door so they don’t just come in and leave, but we can retain some of the 4% that are visiting every Sunday? Well, I think
John Albiston (15:59):
The key is gonna be developing relationships of friendship. So sometimes you know, I talk about, you know, we, in order to have someone follow Jesus, they need to make f make friends with us. Because if you read your gospels, Jesus discipled the disciples within the context of relationship. So when someone say they, they raised that hand When I made that gospel call, I’ve already trained my ushers, they’re already at the back. Everybody else’s head is bowed, eyes are close, not my ushers <laugh>. They’re already at the back and they see who raised their hands, and they’ve already been trained to come up and approach them after the service. Introduce ’em. Hey, my name’s Tom, da da da, da, how you doing? Da da da da da. You know, how long have you been coming here? Da Hey, I would really like to introduce you to my pastor.
(16:47):
Is that okay now? Because I saw their hands, like when they’re my ushers, bring somebody to me. I know this is a new believer. Well then I can have a conversation with them. I can give them a new believer’s Bible and say, Hey, you know what? We’ve got this small group program called Alpha, it’s a free meal. Why don’t you come out? It’s a fantastic way to, you know, to get started. But we want to get them in relationship as fast as possible. So follow up is crucial, crucial, crucial. And we want to connect with them as soon as we, we possibly can. We don’t wanna let that get cold. And again, it comes down to the, the whole love of God experience. If they don’t f experience the love of God from us, they’re not gonna believe in the love of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:35):
Let’s talk about the, the Canadian context here. Most of the churches that you’re, you’re working with here are in Canada. Is there anything unique to Canada that might be different than say the United States or other? Or are these principles, do they work everywhere?
John Albiston (17:52):
So I’ve used these principles in, in other countries and like, like Canada, the United States are fairly culturally adjacent. So if you’re an American coming to Canada, like the least foreign country you could possibly visit is this one. And vice versa. But I’ve seen this work very effectively in Thailand, which is a completely different culture. And that’s because we’re talking about some basic human principles. People need to be known. People need to experience love, people need to experience acceptance. And none of us feel that way when we’re being ignored. So we wanna be certainly culturally sensitive. So if you’re going to Thailand and you’ve got a habit of touching people’s heads, don’t do that in Thailand. That’s considered very rude. Mind you, seriously, dude, that’s weird here too. <Laugh>, you know, but you know, sometimes our own, we have got
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:49):
Little, let’s bring all the visitors up and I’m gonna pray for you right now.
John Albiston (18:53):
<Laugh>, sometimes in our church we develop weird microcultures. Like I remember my, my last church if you were sick, the only way to heal you was to bring you out to the front of the service in front of everybody. We would hit you in the head to try to make you fall over. And that’s how healing happens. Is there anything in the Bible says we have to do it that way? No. And we kind of realized, you know what? That’s actually kind of weird. And people coming in here are kind of terrified by what we’re doing. Maybe we should find like non terrifying ways of doing things. So there’s ways where we can think about, well, things happen in context. So you look at the Apostle Paul apostle Paul said, I am all things to all people. So by all possible means, some might be saved to the Greeks, unlike a Greek to the Jews unlike a Jew.
(19:42):
Well, that wasn’t just words for Paul. If you look at the book of Acts on how he behaves, when Paul’s in a Jewish setting, man, he turns into super Jew, Hey, I’m a Pharisee and you know, I studied on a gamma meal and he’s quoting the Old Testament left, right and center. Like, I mean, he, he puts it on really thick with the Jewish stuff. But when he is talking to a Gentile lobby audience, he doesn’t talk about any of that. In fact at Mars Hill, he starts quoting their poets and using their cultural references to bring them to Jesus. So he adjusts the way he talks depending on who he’s talking to. And I mean, we understand this when it comes to age group. You know, I’m not gonna talk about substitutionary atonement when I’m talking to preschoolers. Okay? So we, we’ve got some kind of understanding of that. Well, we need to know who we’re talking to and then adjust our vocabulary and how we explain and how we act compared to who we’re talking to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:37):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone has some questions about how their church can be more effective at reaching their community, what’s a good way to get in touch with you? What, what’s, what’s your email?
John Albiston (20:50):
They can reach me@justjohnalbertin.com. My last name is A L B I S T O n.com. And there’s some free resources on there, but yeah, anybody can get in touch with me and I am more than happy to help.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much and I love what you’re doing. I, I love coaching evangelists and people who are excited about reaching the lost, and I think so many churches need to have that heart for their community and, and, and for the lost, and, and not just talk about it, but take tangible steps to make it happen.
John Albiston (21:28):
Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:28):
And so, just so much love what you do and so valuable.
John Albiston (21:32):
Well, thanks for having me on here. Thank you.
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Chris Busch | How to Evangelize Through Media
Chris Busch leads LightQuest Media which specializes in media buying and advertising. Today we talk about how a media agency can help a ministry to reach people for Jesus. As a special bonus, Chris Busch shares some miracle testimonies from the life of Kathryn Kuhlman and insights from the ministry of Oral Roberts.
Check out the Light Quest Media website: https://www.lightquestmedia.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Chris Bush is the leader of light quests media, which specializes in media buying and advertising. Today we talk about how a media agency can help a ministry to reach people for Jesus. As a special bonus, Chris Bush shares some miracle testimonies from the life of Kathryn Kuhlman and insights from the ministry of Oral Roberts.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Chris Bush. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Chris Busch (01:12):
You’re welcome, Daniel. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
And so you are leading a media agency called Light Quests Media. Can you tell me what does a media agency do for ministries? Sure.
Chris Busch (01:30):
A media agency they could do a number of things. What we do is we help people multiply their message through media, and that can be through broadcast television and radio. That can be through print books, magazines, et cetera. Or that can be through the internet, which has opened up a whole new realm of possibilities for, for people to multiply through media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so how did you get started doing all of this work in media?
Chris Busch (01:57):
Oh, man. So I like to think that my start in media was when I was around four or five years old and a guy named Earl Roberts would come on our black and white Zenith television at home. And I would see him on Sunday mornings, and I would just spellbound not only by his preaching, but when he would pray for the sick and people would get healed and you’d see it right there, you know, on, on television. And I had little idea that later I would actually wind up a student at Oral Roberts University, and then after my student years working for Oral Roberts University and being involved in their, their television production to some extent. So that’s kind of how I got my, my start in media was largely through through Oral Roberts who was a, you know, he, he was one of the, the people that was on in the 1950s actually, that back in the day when there were three TV stations, you know, if you had a television, you had nbc, cbs, and abc, you had three choices of channels to watch and or was there on Sunday morning on one of those channels.
(02:58):
And so he became well known and very popular through television in the day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:03):
And or Roberts was very innovative in his use of media. He absolutely, he was one of the first ones to go on television. He was the, the first to have a, a national show. And it’s amazing how many people used to watch, or Roberts
Chris Busch (03:20):
Yeah. Used to be in the millions. And so when I was a student there, he, he, first, he started out on Sunday mornings, but then he started doing primetime specials, four primetime specials a year in in the evenings, which he would syndicate across the country, one hour specials. And he would have special guests stars on to kind of attract an audience, but then he would always give a, a sermon, you know, a 10 to 12 minute sermon that was embedded in the program. And that’s how he reached people. After I graduated from o u I worked at the Evangelistic Association, oral Roberts Evangelistic Association for a while. And it was not uncommon that the, the Monday after one of those specials would air, we would get over 100,000 pieces of mail.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:01):
Wow.
Chris Busch (04:02):
This was in the seventies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:04):
Yeah. That’s amazing.
Chris Busch (04:06):
So it was amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:07):
Now, the media landscape has changed a lot in the last few years. It’s actually a much lower bar for entering media, which, which is actually wonderful. Like even right here, I’ve got a little studio set up right here in my home. And to do this 15, 20 years ago would’ve cost a lot of money. Now you can do it pretty inexpensively and you can use media to reach people. And then you used oral use to have to buy television time to go on television all over the, the United States. But now someone can film a video on TikTok and instantly get millions of views if it goes viral and, and it doesn’t cost anything. Oh, yeah.
Chris Busch (04:56):
The whole landscape has changed. Back when I worked for Oral A, a single camera cost over a hundred thousand dollars. Wow. That was in dollars of those days. So equivalent today would probably be, you know, $300,000 for a camera, a studio quality camera. So today, you know, the cost of production of come down, and then with the internet, and especially now with broadband being as fast as it is where you can transmit video very, very efficiently over the internet, the, the the bar as you say has, has really been lowered for people to be able to get into media. And so it’s, it’s really, it’s the, the shifts in media. We, we like to say that mass media has lost its mass because it used to be media was controlled by a few giant corporations, and they kind of decided what everybody got to see.
(05:42):
And now as, as the bar has been lowered, and more and more people have gotten into it, people can choose what they want to see. And and somebody who has a message and wants to get that message out, the ability to do that now, the, the financial bar to get over is not nearly as steep as it was back in the, in the day. So it’s an exciting time. I mean, media has, everything has changed rapidly with technology. Media has probably changed faster than anything. And I think it’s the most exciting time to be involved in media, in the history of media, perhaps in the history of history. I don’t know.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:16):
Yeah. And, and so what has your organization done to adapt to the change and help ministries to, to reach people for Jew? Because I think ultimately the goal of a very evangelist is to lead more people to Jesus. Yes. Whether it’s through television or TikTok or through doing Facebook posts, I mean, people as evangelists, we want to lead people to, to Jesus. And so what have you done to, to help ministries, and then how have you adapted to the changing times?
Chris Busch (06:47):
No, as you know, as an O R U grad one of oral’s premises was going into every person’s world. And so media just provides us with that ability to really, truly go into every person’s world without having to physically be there and in their presence in, in order to do that. So what we’ve done, we, we really started out more as a traditional media agency broadcast. So tell
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
Us what, what would a traditional media
Chris Busch (07:13):
Yeah, traditional media, legacy media would be more like television, radio you know, broadcasting what we call linear television. Linear television is where you have a set schedule and you had to tune in at that time on that channel, or you missed it. Then DVRs came along in that loud time shifted viewing so people could actually record your show. And we find that, that for a lot of our clients that are on television, as much as 15% of their viewership is, is DVR people that are recording it and watching it their own time. And that’s really what’s shifted is the, the, the power as it were of media has shifted to the viewer as opposed to the broadcaster. The viewer has a lot more control now over what they watch when they wanna watch it. So the legacy media, television, radio is still alive.
(08:05):
It’s still reaching people, but so many other options have come along in the world of media, especially with the internet and the, and the large availability of, of, of broadband now. And I didn’t quite believe that as many people would be watching video on their telephones when smartphones came out, you know, some years back, I thought, that’s a little bit of a stretch that somebody’s gonna go from watching on a big screen like this to this thing. But it’s amazing how people have adapted, and especially the younger generation and, you know, now they can watch what they want when they want, and it’s right there in their hand and they’ve got the earbuds in. And that’s the new face of, of media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:47):
And now people call Generation Z digital natives. They were born with a cell phone in their hand almost. Right. And they, it is part of their life. They watch all kinds of content, and it’s much shorter, where oral, I think did hour long po broadcast. Yeah. And now you bring it down to about 30 seconds, which means, yeah, you have to really shorten your message, but then you can put out a lot of right short, 30 seconds short content
Chris Busch (09:18):
And reels and things like that. Yeah. Short, short content, whether it’s YouTube TikTok, whatever. Those have gotten to be super popular. And what we find is that people who are able to produce some of that, in fact, a lot of times people will take, you know, a pastor will take his sermon and have somebody go through it, and they can find those little, you know, clips of, of 30 to 60 seconds or something that they can put up his shorts and then have links to the full message. And so it gives you a chance to begin to develop a relationship with somebody through those short messages. And then you always want to have the ability for them to go beyond that. You don’t wanna just stop there. You know, you want to have links for them to follow with from that short message. If you like this, there’s more, you know, you can hear more here. And, and you can kind of grow the, the interest and grow the relationship that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:10):
Now you represent a variety of different ministries. Some very large ministries. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, w w what are you advising them to do and and how are you helping them right now?
Chris Busch (10:22):
Well, we’re advi well, Jesus said go into all the world, right? Yeah. And oral said, go into every person’s world. So our thing is that okay, just every available platform that you can be on and afford to be on, try to be on there, you know, with, with your message. So everything from, from the the big tech platforms, you know, like Facebook, YouTube, and that we also are cautioning our clients not to, not to depend on those platforms being there tomorrow. That ultimately you wanna really have your own website, your own app, and you wanna develop a relationship with people where they can get to your content without having to go through an intermediary like, like Facebook or YouTube. Because the reality is, is is that someday Facebook or YouTube could pull the plug on religious programming.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:15):
Very, yeah. And I, I know that some ministries are very curtailed in what they can say on TikTok, for example. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there are some of my friends are on there and they’ll get thousands of views, but then if they talk about a certain subject, suddenly it drops to zero views. They, they can push a button shadow completely turn you off, and basically controlling the message of what can be said, which is very dangerous from a, a free speech viewpoint. Yeah. But as Christians, we have to be wise in how we talk to people, how we communicate, and, and then we can grab people, hook them, and then bring them over to our website where you said we can have, right? Yeah. Bring additional content to help bring them,
Chris Busch (12:02):
Bring them up to your platform, you know, where, where you can, and then, you know, where they can sign up for an email list. Because you really want to, if you have that person’s email, that’s so much more valuable in terms of the relationship than just having that connection through a social media platform. Because like I said, it could, it could disappear. The message could get suppressed. You could get blocked. You know, we, we know all the stories that are coming out now since Elon Musk bought Twitter, you know, all the stories that are coming out. Or
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:32):
Even the FBI was trying to block some of the messages.
Chris Busch (12:34):
Yeah, yeah. And, and so but the thing is, people are there, it’s like the public square in a way, you know, that you know, Paul went up Mars Hill and there were all these people and he just stood up and began to, to preach there. Well, that’s kind of where, where our people now, well, they’re, you know, they’re Facebook, their Twitter, their TikTok their YouTube, you know, all these different platforms. I mean, YouTube is the number two search engine. And people don’t realize that. Cause they think Google Yeah, Google’s number one, well, what’s number two? Well, is it Bing? Is it duck, duck Go? No, it’s YouTube is the number two search engine in the world. So that just massive amounts of people there. So, so what we recommend to clients is, is you’ve gotta be where the people are, and you’ve gotta make, you know, contact there.
(13:18):
And you’ve gotta have it’s gotta be good content. You know, it’s gotta be well done. It’s gotta be, be well produced. People have become more sophisticated about media. So the quality of the video, the quality of the audio needs to be good. Now, it doesn’t need to be perfect especially if you’re shooting something that’s this kind of live type of thing and you’re using a phone or something, people will give you grace for something like that. But if if they, if the audio is bad, or if the video is just, you know, hard to watch, people are sophisticated one or two, three seconds, you know, and they’re gonna to be onto something else. So you’ve gotta be sure that you put the message out there with, with enough quality so that, that the lack of quality won’t drive somebody away.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:04):
So if someone’s listening and they have a, a small to to medium size ministry, and they came to you and, and said, I need some help with my media, what are some of the things that, that light Quests would do to, to help a, a, a ministry like that? What advice would you give them? Or, or how can you help them out? Well, first
Chris Busch (14:26):
Thing we wanna do is understand what they’re calling is and, and what it is they’re trying to do and, and what, what their purpose, what their mission is. And then we try to, to work within that. I mean, we don’t have like a cookie cutter thing where, okay, here’s what everybody else does, and so therefore you should do this. So it’s really important to understand somebody’s mission, who they’re trying to reach. For instance, we have a, we have a number of clients who really focus more on the United States as their mission field. We have other clients who do, who are in the United States that don’t do any media in the United States. They spend all of their media budget in, in certain foreign countries. And, and they may even have a particular country that they feel a calling toward. You know, we’re where things are focused.
(15:11):
So understanding that type of thing, understanding the, the, the mission and the calling is really important. And then it’s just a matter of developing a strategy. And this is where I also see, whether it’s in ministry, business, whatever, a lot of times people can be a little bit helter skelter and, well, let’s try this, let’s try this. You know, it’s really important, I think, to have a strategy. And that strategy can and will change over time. We’ve seen how technology, you know, advancements in technology, you better change your strategy as technology advances. But you still need a strategy. You still need to, to kind of an idea, okay, we’re doing this, we’re doing it for this reason, and be very purposeful and intentional about it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:52):
And so you really help people to develop that strategy Yes. And then to implement it. Right. That’s extremely valuable. So if someone’s listening and they want to find out more about you and, and what you, you do, what’s your website? How’s
Chris Busch (16:06):
They Our, our website is light quest media.com. So L i G H T Q U E S T M E D I a, <laugh> like quest media.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:15):
Yeah. So if you’re interested in finding out more about media and how to be effective at reaching people and encourage you to, to reach out to Chris Bush and like Quest Media and they’ll be able to help you out. And earlier we were talking a little bit about Kathryn Kuhlman. You, you went to her church when you were young. Yes, she was. And you were telling me after growing up a story about how you saw some miracles happen through her ministry. Can you tell us about that?
Chris Busch (16:42):
Well, I had there were a couple of ’em. One, a friend of mine that I grew up with in, in the ministry there, he was born with club feet and his feet were like, just turned almost completely upside down. And my parents were there. They saw his mother bring him to one of Kathryn Kuhlman’s services and they saw his feet and how deformed they were. And then she prayed for him during that service, and his feet became to totally normal. And they saw him afterwards. And I grew up with the guy and, you know, his feet, I’m not saying mine or normal, but his words normal as mine. Anyway, <laugh>. And then another time, my dad had had a really bad back injury from work, and he, we did not think we would be able to even go to church. Cause we drove 40 miles from New Brighton, Pennsylvania to Youngstown, Ohio for Kathryn Kuhlman’s Sunday services.
(17:26):
And so we did, just figured we wouldn’t be going, cuz dad couldn’t. And he wanted to go. He was determined to go. So my, my brother who’s 12 and a half months older than I, we, we helped him get up off the couch and, and get, you know, into the car. And he, he was stubborn German, you know, so he was gonna drive, and he got there and he was standing at the back of the auditorium. And he was one of Katherine Kuhlman’s ushers. And so somebody had told her, you know, that he had been injured. And at one point during the service, she called him to come forward, she says, is Al Busch here? And from the back, my brother and I were sitting down on the first couple of rows with what was called junior ushers. And, and we could hear from the back.
(18:04):
He goes, yes. And she said, come down here. And he came down the aisle right to the side of where we were sitting. And when he got to about the first couple rows, she said, stop. And he stopped and she said bend over and touch your toes. Well, I mean, we knew that he could maybe bend a little bit, you know, maybe 10 or 15 degrees. And that was about it. And he put his two hands up in the air and bent down, touched his toes, and was immediately healed and had no back issues from that day. He went to the doctor the next day, and the doctor, he walked in and the doctor said, what happened to you? And dad told him, you know, and the doctor was kind of skeptical and all of that, but he said, well, he said, you don’t need me anymore.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:48):
Well, what a wonderful story about what God did through Kathryn Kuhlman. What a great woman of God she was. And then you went to Oral Roberts University, and right as you graduated, oral hired you mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And you, you advanced very rapidly by the age of 26, you were a vice president at, at oru, which is pretty amazing. What was it like being around Oral Roberts? What made him effective as an evangelist?
Chris Busch (19:16):
I think what made oral so effective was that he was determined to obey God. And if he believed that God called him to do a certain thing, he was gonna do it. And we were all gonna help him do it. You know, and, and that was the thing there. He would, he was open to hear other people’s opinions and everything, but when the decision got made, then it’s like, okay, we’re all, we’re all pulling the same sled here and we’re all pulling in the same direction. And so he was really a great inspirational leader in that way. He had a great vision you know, for back when he had the healing ministry and the tents, and then to carry that forward into the university and for the Holy Spirit and healing and, and the whole Pentecostal experience as it were, to be a part of a university. You have to remember, oral came out of a, of a Pentecostal background. It was very anti-education. They believed after high school you could go to Bible school and that was okay, but don’t, you know, don’t go to university or a college or something like that because they’ll corrupt you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:24):
Well, he started a college, so I know somehow
Chris Busch (20:27):
He, he was amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:28):
He got over that. He got over. But thank God he did, because O R U is such a huge blessing to so many people.
Chris Busch (20:33):
And he did it, you know, coming out of a background, it would say he, he would be a very unlikely person to do it. And, and actually had to fight the leaders of his denomination, you know, who really wanted him to make it a Bible school. And he said, no, God’s called me to build a university where the students will go into every man’s world. And so yeah, he was an, an amazing visionary. And like I said, if, if once he knew that God had told him to do something, that that was it. You know, and he was, he was gonna do it, and he was gonna fight and, and overcome whatever it took to do that and stand. So we can look back on some of those people like Oral Roberts, like Kathryn Kuhlman and others, and, and look at their examples and, you know, they weren’t perfect people and we’re not perfect. And, but look at the impact that they had because they were obedient to the calling that God put on their lives. And they just said yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:31):
Right toward the end of a Robert’s life, I got to go to his house out in California, and I was very young, and I asked him for his advice for me as a young minister. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And he said, Daniel, obey guy. There you go. And so now anytime someone asks me for advice, I just tell ’em, obey God. Yes. You can’t go wrong doing that. No.
Chris Busch (21:52):
No. And, and I think what, what a great thing to have is your life’s legacy. You know, that he obeyed God. And what else could we, you know, what we’re looking for is that when we stand before Jesus, you know, we get that well done, good and faithful servant. And I am just absolutely convinced Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts people like that, that, that walked a walk, you know, through their whole life of, of being obedient to God in spite of flaws, in spite of mistakes and everything else, that when they arrived, you know, that’s what they were greeted with. Well done. Good and faithful servant.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:30):
Amen. Well, I pray that all of us would Yes. Hear the same thing well done. Good and faithful servant. That’s our goal. Amen. Well, Mr. Chris, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Awesome. I appreciate it.
Chris Busch (22:43):
Be great to be with you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:44):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give anar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (25:07):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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The ABC’s of Salvation
The ABC’s of Salvation are an easy way to remember the Gospel message. This method is a great way to share the Gospel with children who are currently learning the alphabet.
Key Verses: Romans 3:23; 6:23; Acts 3:19; 1 John 1:9, John 3:16; 15:6; Romans 5:8. Romans 10:9-10, 13
Source: Dave Earley and David Wheeler*
What to Say:
A – Admit that you’re a sinner, and that no matter what good deeds you do, you cannot earn God’s love and forgiveness. Key Verses: Luke 18:9-14, Romans 3:23; 6:23; Acts 3:19; 1 John 1:9
Here’s the bad news. We all have a problem. It’s called sin. No one is perfect. No one is living a life the way God intended us to live. The consequence of sin is eternal death.
B – Believe that Jesus is God’s Son and that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. Believe He rose from the dead on the third day and is alive today. Key Verses: John 3:16; 15:6; Romans 5:8.
Here is the good news. God loves us so much that He can forgive any sin, no matter how big or small. God sent His son Jesus to die on the cross to save us from sin. Jesus promises us that if we put our trust in Him, He will save us from our sin.
C – Confess your faith in Christ. Key Verses: Romans 10:9-10, 13
When Jesus rose from the dead, He proved His victory over eternal death. God wants you to confess (that means to “say with your mouth”) that Jesus is Lord. He is your Savior.
D – Do everything Jesus has commanded you. Key Verses: Matthew 7:21, Matthew 28:20.
Now that you have decided to ask Jesus to forgive your sins, it is time to live for Him. The Bible gives us instructions on how to live the God kind of way.
@evangelistdanielking The ABC’s of Salvation #Jesus #Salvation #Believe #Faith ♬ original sound – Daniel King5259
Thoughts About the ABC’s of Salvation
* The ABC’s of Salvation are typically known as Admit, Believe, Confess, and Do. Technically, these four points are not the Gospel, rather they are the Biblical responses a person should have to the Gospel. It is important not to rush the Gospel presentation when the ABC’s are presented. For example, when one is ministering to children the temptation is to rush right to the end in order to get the kids to make a verbal commitment to Christ, but it is important to the complete message of Christ’s redemption including creation, the fall, and how Christ saves us.
* A+B+C = Salvation + D = Sanctification
* After I teach school children about the ABC’s of Salvation, I ask them to repeat after me using numbers to help them remember what Jesus has done for them:
1-2-3 “Repeat after me,” 5-6-7 “Now you go to heaven,” 8-9-10, “You are born-again!”
*Dave Earley and David Wheeler, Evangelism Is… (Nashville, TN: B & H Academic Publishing, 2010), 334.
Roman Nechay | Youth Crusades in Africa & Asia
In the past year, Roman Nechay spoke over 1,000 times to over 300,000 people and prayed with over 200,000 people to receive Christ in seven different nations. On today’s podcast he shares one of the messages that he uses at Youth Crusades to capture the attention of young people, to present the Gospel, and to lead them to Jesus.
Visit Roman Nechay online: https://www.romannechay.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
In the past year, Roman Nache spoke over 1000 times to over 300,000 people and prayed with over 200,000 people to receive Christ in seven different nations. On today’s podcast, he shares one of the messages that he uses at Youth Crusades to capture the attention of young people to present the gospel and to lead them to Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
To the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. Have a very special guest with me, Roman Nche. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Roman Nechay (01:12):
Thank you so much, Daniel. I’m glad to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
So you were a student at Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp, and I was one of the teachers, and then we were together over in Tanzania, and you came to me and said, is there anything that I could do to serve King Ministries? And a few months later you came over here and you spent several days with me just helping me to edit the videos for my School of Apologetics. And you put a lot of work into that. And now thousands and thousands of atheists have watched those videos and many of them have made very negative comments. They have said that this Daniel King guy is an idiot. He doesn’t know what he is talking about, but the amazing thing is that they’re listening to the gospel from those videos that you edited. So thank you for doing that.
Roman Nechay (02:06):
My pleasure. I’m just glad to be that part of that experience. And man, this is amazing that what you’re doing is you’re bringing the light of Jesus Christ to the atheist. Not everybody can do that, and not everybody is able, like, capable of bringing the gospel that way. So thank you so much Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:21):
And so last time that you were here, you were just about ready to go on an adventure to go to different nations around the world and do youth crusades. And now here we are, we’re a year later, and I want to get a report. What has God been doing?
Roman Nechay (02:40):
Amen. So last year around in the beginning of the year, around January 2nd, I left out to Rwanda. And Rwanda. We got to preach there for about two two months, and we saw many amazing things happen. So we mostly focused on youth and teenagers. And I remember just one instance where we were in a church and we got to preach on a Sunday morning to about a thousand youth. And then we started taking testimonies. And one gentleman, he came out and he testified that his shortsightedness was healed and in front of all, all his friends, I wanted to check that if, if it was true or not. So I took my Bible, I flipped it open, and I asked him, if before when you had the shortsightedness, would you be able to see this far out? And he said, no, I wouldn’t. And I said, okay, let’s test out your vision.
(03:32):
Now what does it say? And he read exactly from the Bible at a distance where he couldn’t do it before and the whole crowd exploded. They just started shouting and praising the Lord because they saw what Jesus has done. And his, his life was a miracle. So his eyes were completely restored and Jesus had done that. And of course there’s many other instances, for example, where in Rwanda there’s a gentleman who he was he was of a different religion, but afterwards he experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit so strongly that you can see in her his eyes, he was almost tearing up. He was saying, wow, I felt the power of God. I felt something on the inside of me. And now I’m a different, a different man. I’m a different person today because of what Jesus has done for me. And there was so many other miracles. It was an amazing time, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:21):
Well, Jesus is wonderful, and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever the same Jesus that healed people 2000 years ago can heal people in Rwanda. And so you were part of a Christ for all nations team there in Rwanda doing youth crusades. And I heard phenomenal reports about what God had done. And, and, and so what were some of the results? How many people did the team minister to during the ministry there in Rwanda?
Roman Nechay (04:49):
So collectively in the year 2022, Christ for all nations has seen over 1 million decisions for Christ in the, in the country of Rwanda. We literally hit so many people. I mean, Daniel Rwanda itself has about 12 million population where we hit over a million and a half population and over a million decisions for Christ. We hit one 10th of that country for Jesus Christ. So that was a phenomenal just feat with all the evangelists. And of course, it wasn’t just me on the ground and just people. There was, I think, you know, 20, 30, 40 evangelists that came and went in just that period of three months in the beginning of the year and the last two weeks in December.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:30):
What a great victory. I mean, one outta every 10 to actually pray a prayer of salvation and come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I I pray that we would see revivals like that happen in nations all over the world. Okay, so you were in Rwanda, but you also got to visit some other places. Where where else did you go?
Roman Nechay (05:51):
So total of seven Nations in 2022. So Rwanda, Uganda, Ivory Coast, Ghana, and then I hopped over to Asia in the middle of the year when I got to minister in south country of Bangladesh. So, and then I got to minister in Thailand and Cambodia. So all of those countries I got to visit last year. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:11):
Let’s talk a little bit about Asia versus Africa. The cultures are very different and the people are very different. In Africa, I think you can go and all the kids will run up to you and they will scream and they’re super excited. And then in Asia they might be more reserved and sit very quietly. What, what were some of the, the differences that you saw in administering in Asia versus Africa?
Roman Nechay (06:38):
Man, definitely what you’re saying is the children in Asia are so much more reserved than compared to Africa. I mean, in Africa, let’s say, especially in West Africa, would just walk through, you know, the town and kids are screaming, they’re touch, trying to touch you, they’re trying to, you know, like touch your skin and all these kids are all around you. In Asia, they’re a little bit more shy, so they just wanna first see, okay, who is this foreigner? What are, what are they doing here? And so on. And some of the culture differences, as I told you earlier, you know, in Thailand it’s not good to touch somebody’s head like that’s, that’s wrong, that’s disrespectful. And I remember one of our evangelist friends came from Russia. He’s just laying hands on these kids as in Africa, and he didn’t know this. And so we had to, we had to tell him, Hey, like we can’t lay hands and just, and kids and expect, so that’s kind of rude. So we had to explain that to them and we were learning so much on the way, like in, in Asia, just about the culture and everything. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:36):
So after this, this full year of ministry, I know that you kept careful track of all the people that you ministered to and the people that prayed with you for salvation. Give me the final numbers and statistics from the, the full year of ministry that you got to do.
Roman Nechay (07:50):
Yeah, so I got to preach over 1000 times in the whole year of 2022. I got to see over 300,000 youth face-to-face that I got to speak to about Christ with. And then over 200,000 decisions for Christ in one year of ministry. So praise God for that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:09):
What an amazing victory just to have the opportunity to, to preach a thousand times. I mean, I, if you think about a, a pastor preaching once every Sunday morning, once every Wednesday night, you know, that would be a hundred times in a year. He would have to go 10 years to preach a thousand times. And here you got to go, you preached over a thousand times. So you basically got 10 years of experience stuffed into one year. And then to have the opportunity to speak to so many people and to see so many people give their lives to Jesus. I mean, there’s some ministries that they may see a few hundred people come to Jesus in a year, and you had over 200,000. So I would say this is a, a major victory. What a tremendous opportunity that, that God gave you. And I I really celebrate with you the harvest and thank you. And it’s, it’s neat seeing you this time versus last time we were together because last time you, you had big vision and he, I feel like God’s calling me to do this and I want to do that. Well, now you come back as an experienced, a very mature minister because now you’ve gone and done it. It’s not just talk in rhetoric. You know what it takes to actually lead thousands of people to Jesus.
Roman Nechay (09:33):
Amen. And what’s also wonderful, Daniel, is not that these people just heard the gospel, but they’re actually being discipled in the process. So a few weeks ago I got a report that in Thailand, they’re out there again visiting these same places where we preached the gospel and they’re bringing, they brought the, the Christmas story to the children. So for example, they would show the video of Jesus being born and coming into this earth, dying and raising from the dead. They, they’re talking, you know, they’re preaching to them, they’re showing videos, they’re playing games with them. So, and also same thing in Uganda. There’s many people, or there’s, there’s some pastors and leaders that are visiting these places. They’re doing bible study with them. I got pictures of kids, you know, open with the Bible open studying the word of God. And so this is not just us preaching one time and leaving forever, but there’s people who are following up with these children, that these children get to grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and they get to be mature Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:28):
Wow. What a tremendous blessing that is. And so Roman, let’s imagine that you’re in Rwanda, you are doing a youth crusade, and in front of you it are thousands maybe a a thousand or 1500 young people, and you have the opportunity to present the gospel to them. What does that sound like? Are you there with a suit and a tie? You have your you know you’re starting in Leviticus. What, what, what, what do you tell these kids to capture their attention and, and present the gospel to them?
Roman Nechay (11:04):
Well, first of all we try to have the African attire or wherever we are. If it’s the Asian culture, we try to have the Asian attire. So we try to be very presentable. And you know, we try to match what, what they’re wearing. That’s one thing. And another thing, before I even start preaching, you know there’s different stories or d there’s different ways that we present the gospel depends. The, the instance, it depends on the age, it depends on the, on the place where we’re preaching at. But this is how something would go. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:32):
So, so why are you using stories to communicate to young people?
Roman Nechay (11:38):
Well, I mean, Jesus used parables all the time. Jesus used the parables of the, of the, of the sower, going out to sow the seed. Jesus always communicated with parables because we can imagine these things, and then we connect these stories into the gospel because that’s way Jesus did it. And again, the gospel is an illustration. Jesus, he died on the cross. Jesus rose from the dead. We see that mentally. We can imagine that. And then we communicate that into our own lives. So this is why we use stories. Another reason why we use stories is because that grabs the tension of the children. You know, we don’t want to just rebuke them and say, you must repent and you must believe the gospel. They don’t understand that. So to grasp their attention, we use stories in the beginning. So they, they’re interested, they maybe they laugh a little bit, and then all of a sudden we go into the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:26):
That’s awesome. Alright, well give us a story. How are you presenting the gospel to this group of young people?
Roman Nechay (12:32):
Once upon a time, there’s this one little boy, he’s walking down the street and all of a sudden he gets this idea, he wants to build a small toy wooden boat. And so he goes to the shop and he, all of a sudden he starts building this boat, and he built it, and it was so beautiful, and he decided to go and take it out for a test. So he ran down to the river, he put this boat into the river, and this boat sailed perfectly. The boy’s so happy, he’s so rejoicing, but suddenly there’s this windstorm that just blows in out of nowhere, and it takes his boat far, far away from the boy. And the boat gets lost. And the boy became so sad, he started crying. But the next day, the boy is walking through the town and all of a sudden the boy spots his own boat in the window of a shop.
(13:17):
The boy, he runs into the shop and says to the shopkeeper, shopkeeper, that’s my boat. I made it. But the shop co keeper says, little boy, somebody gave me that boat yesterday. If you want the boat, you must buy back from me. So the boy, he was determined to buy back the boat. The boy ran back home and he worked hard for three days. He helped his parents, he washed windows, he cleaned the toilets, he did everything possible to get enough money to buy that boat back. So the boy ran back to the store, and the boy paid for the boat and ran out with the boat. So happy. Then suddenly the boy lifted the boat behind the air and said, little boat, little boat. You are twice mine. First I made you, and second I bought you back. And this story relates to the gospel.
(14:01):
We are like the boat, and God is like the boy. God created us in his image and likeness. God put us here on this earth for a reason. God made us. But then suddenly we, because of sin, were separated from God. We all disobeyed God. And we fell short of the glory of God, meaning that we were not perfect and we made mistakes in our life. But then God, he liked the boy, purchased us by sending his son Jesus Christ into this world to pay for our sin. Jesus, he died on the cross. Jesus paid with his own blood. Jesus didn’t pay with gold or silver or with money or with dollars. Jesus paid with his blood dying on the cross for us. So he substituted that, that sin in our place. And then Jesus overcame death. Jesus overcame sin, and Jesus rose from the dead. And today is alive. And I have the kids repeat, say, Jesus is alive, and they say, Jesus is alive.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:55):
Jesus is
Roman Nechay (14:56):
Alive. Amen. And Jesus is the only way to God. So what we must do is we must turn from our shameful acts, from our sins, and we must, must turn to the honor and honor of Jesus. We must turn to Christ himself. And we must say no to all our sins if we lie, cheated, stolen, if we dishonor parents or our friends, if we, if we fo if we’re angry, we must turn away from all those things and follow Jesus with our whole heart. And then we’ll be saved. So then I tell all the children, close your eyes. This is a holy moment. Now you get to make a choice. Your parents, your teachers, your siblings, your relatives, they can’t make this choice for you, only. You must make this choice. And so right now, Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart, and only you can open the door to Jesus.
(15:40):
If you want to repent and turn from your sins and turn to Christ, raise your hand. If you want to give all of your life to Jesus right now, raise your hand. And so these kids all over the place, they start raising their hands with their eyes closed. And then we pray the prayer of salvation. Dear Jesus, I give you my life. Jesus, I turn from sin. Jesus, I turn to you, Jesus. Save me from my sin right now and fill me with your joy and fill me with the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. Amen. And afterwards, they, they say, amen. We say, we wanna celebrate and sing a song with you. And so we dance to this song called One Way Jesus. And they’re in Africa and Asia. They love to dance. And so we worship together with them. And afterwards we encourage them by saying this. Now you made a decision to follow Christ. Please read and re read the Bible every single day. Pray and join a local church so you can grow in the things of God and, and you can grow in your relationship with Jesus. So that’s about how it goes. Just a simple message. It’s all about Jesus. And we bring him to that decision where they get to make a decision to follow Christ themselves.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:43):
I love how sharp your message is. It goes right to the heart of the matter. You’re not wasting time in rabbit trails that don’t matter to the gospel, but you’re telling the story, presenting the gospel, and bringing kids to the point of decision. What a tremendous ministry in, in Roman, I’m, I’m so proud of what you’ve done this, this past year. You have been out there giving your life for the sake of the gospel. And God has given you a, a great reward of, of many souls that have come into the kingdom of God. And so it’s just so exciting to see what God is, is doing through you. So thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone wants to get in touch with you or find out more about your ministry, how can they connect with you on, on social media or on the internet?
Roman Nechay (17:37):
So I have a website, roman nache.com, R o m a n n e c h A y.com. Or they can find me on Instagram, evangelist dot roman, or Facebook, also evangelist Roman Nache. Whatever you do, please reach out to me. I’d love to get more in touch with you and just connect with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:55):
And so if you’re listening, I’d encourage you to go to Roman’s website and to help support his ministry. By supporting him, you will be helping to bring people into the kingdom of God. So Roman, thanks so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Roman Nechay (18:11):
Thank you so much, Daniel. God. God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (18:16):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out that Daniel King’s School of Evangelism learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from an observing top evangelist, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start. The Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you, enrolled today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:17):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:38):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Bill Hogg | Advance Evangelists Summit Canada
Bill Hogg is an evangelism catalyst. His goal is to raise up a new generation of evangelists across Canada fuelled with a passion to boldly declare the Gospel. This is done through Advance Groups of evangelists that meet together every month. To find out more on how to start your own evangelism Advance Group, keep listening.
Learn More About Message Canada: https://messagecanada.org/
Start an Advance Group of Evangelists: https://canada.advancegroups.org
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, bill Hogg. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bill Hogg (00:11):
Delight to, to join you. Thanks for the invitation today, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
So we are together at the Advance Evangelist Summit in Calgary, Alberta in Canada, and evangelists from all over the nation of Canada. And even a few other parts of the world have come together to talk about evangelism. And you have helped to organize all this. Kind of tell me the story of, of this summit and, and why God put this on your heart to bring evangelists together.
Bill Hogg (00:43):
So there’s a bit of a backstory if you want that, where God stirred my heart about the fact that in Canada, the evangelist is missing in action. There’s a scarcity of the evangelist. I mean, you might be able to quote this Rice Brooks for his doctoral dissertation scan the United States, what, 10, 15 years ago and thought maybe evangelical, charismatic Bible teaching churches, maybe one in a hundred would be graced with the gift and anointing of the evangelist. So that was part of my covid reading. You know, what do you do when you’re encapsulated in a lockdown? You read stuff and I thought Canada, it’s probably anecdotally it’s maybe one in 200. So I, I was involved in assessing coaching, training and supporting church planters and was disturbed that many church planters could not articulate the gospel with clarity, which I think is basic foundation for any kind of ministry.
(01:40):
And a lot of church planting is not evangelistic. So we used to quote Peter Wagner, who said, the most effective evangelistic methodology under heaven is the planting of new churches. But in response to that, I would quote the music composer, not the theologian called Porter, who would say, it ain’t necessarily so. So that used to disturb me. And I would meet with network leaders and church planting catalysts or denomin national officers and say, who are the evangelists in your tribe? And they would say, that’s a really good question. If I was feeling cheeky, I would say I only ask good questions. But generally, crickets would chirp in the background because they couldn’t identify the evangelists. So that used to disturb me a great deal. And, and a couple of things happened. One is I went to message trust in the UK and spoke at their first ever advanced summit where they had identified 250 evangelists in the uk, invited 170 or 170, came to the summit.
(02:48):
They probably invited all 250. It was 170 in the room. I was the closing speaker. And of course, evangelists never watched the clock, Daniel. So 170 had hemorrhage down to maybe a hundred when I was in the room. And we did a great time in ministry. And as I stepped away from that encounter, I was there with my wife, Morag. I thought, Lord, if you can identify and raise up evangelists in Jo Post-Christian England, why not here in Canada? At the same time, I’m involved in a, an entity called Church, plant Plant in Canada. We bring leaders and church planting catalyzers from across the country. And when the old church planting network, it was part of, I was the only member of our team there. So we had a facilitator. You’ve been in these rooms, they break out, they give you giant post-it notes, kind of what’s your contribution to our conversation?
(03:40):
So I’m a team member of one, a committee of one. So it’s command and control time. So I just drew the Edward Munch screen picture, ah, and then I put prison bars over it, and then I drew a gigantic foot. So I’m the only person that did any kind of cartoon, put it on the wall. People are talking about their aspirations of church planting. And I said, there’s a, I was asked to explain myself. I said, the food reminds us how beautiful on the mountains are the feet of them who bring good news. But in Canada and appointed to in Canada, we’ve imprisoned, incarcerated, sidelined the evangelist. And after we’d been there in the mountains for three days, I was driving back in the rental car, rental car filled with the presence of God. And I had one of those holy moments where it’s just almost like a stillness descends on you.
(04:34):
And I said, Jesus, I think part of the story, maybe the primary reason, the big reason you brought me to Canada is to be part of reclaiming the advance list for the advancement of the gospel. So there’s been that partial as part of the story. I could go into more of the backstory around that, but I was intrigued that what, under Andy Hawthorne’s catalytic leadership, he would be a leading gospel champion in the uk, an apostolic evangelist. And now under Ben Jack’s leadership evangelists were popping up in the uk. And I’m like, why not Canada? So our first play was when I joined message as their national director. The first event we hosted was an advance summit in November, 2019. And we gathered about 85 leaders from across the country, two ends of the spectrum, young adults who were part of a school of evangelism, seasoned statesmen, evangelists like tv, Thomas pastors with a heart for evangelism, street evangelists, proclamation, evangelists, evangelist.
(05:41):
And it was a powerful time of prophetic activation and worship and prayer in networking. We thought, Hey Lord, let’s do that again. And of course, we’ve had to navigate the dynamics of covid where we couldn’t gather. And so this is our first gathering, and part of the gathering is just to identify evangelists. We want to create an association of Canadian evangelists. We want to populate churches and ministries with advanced groups. We want to be a broker of getting the evangelist embedded in the life of the local church as a gospel agitator, as a servant, as an equipper. And see what God would do. So big ideas, Lord, give us grace to find the flames of evangelism in Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:22):
Well, as an evangelist, I’m very thankful for your heart to raise up evangelists. I think it’s so important. And I, I was called as an evangelist at a very young age and always had the heart for evangelism. And you start to, to try to figure out what that means. And so I looked at other great evangelists, looked at the pictures of TL Osborne and Billy Graham and Reinhardt Bonky and, and just dream about doing that someday. And then I did my doctorate ministry at Oral Roberts University and, and read all of Rice Brooks materials Okay. For my, my dissertation, which was on mass evangelism. And you know, so you grow in your understanding of being an evangelist and, and it’s so valuable what you’re doing to help people to understand what it means to be an evangelist. And so let’s talk about the need for evangelism here in Canada. You were sharing some statistics last night. Tell me, tell me about the need for evangelism here in Canada.
Bill Hogg (07:24):
Well, we’re, we’re really a gospel parch country. Daniel those joining us on the Evangelism Podcast might not realize the spiritual demography or landscape in Canada. So there’s Quebec, which is the most unreached piece of real estate in all of the America’s, north America’s, central America, south America. And of course there are Christians beyond evangelicalism, but Quebec has about 0.5% of its population who would self-identify as an evangelical using the classic, albeit reductionist, bebbington quadrilateral. Now that’s less self-identified evangelicals than in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, which is 0.6%. There’s another trend, we talk a lot about the nuns and Dunns, and of course some other social issues have been front and center, and that’s kind of been on the back burner of conversation. But there’s a story of accelerated de Christianization. So in 1961, I think 1% of Canada would identify as having no religious affiliation whatsoever.
(08:35):
Now in 2023, it’s approaching 40%. The Evangelical fellowship of Canada created a composite category of aas sns. Now who are they? They’re atheists, agnostics, spiritual, but not religious and nuns. Those nuns have got no religious affiliation. And that composite category is 50% of Canada. And in the same piece of research, which is about two years old, they say zero as the new normal. Now what are they talking about? Church engagement? Church participation. So the normal Canadian is not remotely interested in engaging with the faith community, no matter how slick the programs are or how vibrant or spiritually hot the environment is. And then the other story which we’ve unearthed is that church planting’s dirty little secret is transfer growth. So generally speaking, church plants that grow are simply recycling Christians from other churches. So where are we seeing missional engagement? Where are we seeing fruitful evangelism?
(09:48):
And frankly, a church like say Auntie Greco’s Church or Dave Coop’s church, or First Alliances Church Calgary, where they’re seeing baptisms on profession of faith is rare, now takes catalytic leadership. So a friend of mine who I didn’t mention there, passes a church in Cologna. And during the pandemic when things were on hold, he said, we are about mission, we’re not about maintenance. So it requires that kind to leadership. So even during the pandemic one year, an Anthony at Calgary Life Church saw a hundred professions of faith and baptized. 62 people during the pandemic, two of them had baptized in secret because there were Muslim converts who showed up at the church and said, is this a church that interprets dreams? And an Anthony said to me, bill, I’ve never interpreted a dream in my life, but I said, sure, we are. What have you got?
(10:40):
And they had a dream where someone in Dalin White appeared to them, and it’s like, duh, it’s Jesus. So he shared Jesus with them. Let me give you the interpretation. You need Jesus, that, that that’s exactly right. So, I mean, there’s beautiful anomalies. I would say they’re outliers, but generally what we’re seeing is a decline. So other stats would be 80 to 85% of Canadian churches have plateaued or declined. And that would include evangelical Bible, believing churches, spirit-filled churches, not simply the mainline churches who we might say, well, of course they’ve lost the gospel, but you can’t say that wholesale. So it’s about 85% of the churches now that’s using the unhelpful metrics of church attendance. Church participation, which is a lousy metric. It’s not a kingdom metric. But what it does tell us, for most churches, their best days are in yester year. And they need to experience profound gospel recalibration, deep spiritual renewal, and actually embrace a journey of change. And of course, Robert Quinn who wrote about deep Change said most organizations and most people would rather choose slow death than deep change. And he said, you’ve got a choice the hell of deep change or the hell of slow death. And so that requires courageous leadership, wise leadership, probably apostolic leadership, to catalyze around the centrality of the gospel and, and create a dream for a new day of missional fruitfulness.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:16):
And that’s why it’s so important to raise up evangelists and to elevate the gift of the evangelist in the church. We desperately need more people who have a heart to, to go out and to to reach the loss. And that’s one of the things you’re, you’re attempting to do is, is to raise up evangelists. And one of the tools that you’re using to do that is the advanced course. And, and so talk to me about how evangelists can get together and to, to commit to meet together on a regular basis and use this curriculum, which the messenger trust makes available free of charge to people all over the world. And how, how can they use this to, to help disciple and mentor evangelists?
Bill Hogg (13:01):
Great, great question. So I think if we’re, if we’re going to learn new skills or, or, or call out latent evangelistic capacity, the best way is to learn in a community and not simply learn cerebral head information. I mean, you’ve, you’ve studied at postgraduate level, and that’s awesome because James Denny said, all our evangelists should be theologians, and all our theologians should be evangelists, but I would include myself in this. Most of us, what we know is not matched by our obedience or the level of our Christ-likeness or the level of our missional engagement. And this creates a learning community where you could be a gifted leader and facilitate a group, but it doesn’t even actually require strong leadership because we’ve created a curriculum. So initially the advanced group was kinda Lucy goosey Andy Hawthorne mentoring 12 others. And for about 18 months, I don’t think it even had a name.
(14:02):
You know, maybe it would be Andy’s disciples or something. And then at one point he said, go down and do likewise. And the 12, we’ve heard this before, the 12 went out to multiply, but what they created, Ben Jack created the advanced group guide. And that is the content which you wrestle with do homework on pray into apply. And, and that’s the centerpiece of the group that meets around a, if you like, a three-legged stool around how clear and pure is your gospel. Because we can’t assume gospel centrality, the Apostle Paul says, we’re all gospel amnesia acts. Let me remind you of that, which is our first importance. So we’re kinda pressing in, how clear is my gospel? Has the gospel really taken root in my heart in life to have a gospel-centered operating system? I’m a Twitter painted with the beauty and truth and infused with the power of the gospel, but then does my life actually commend the gospel?
(15:05):
So there’s questions about our Christ-likeness, our holiness, our purity or transparency or honesty. And so there’s also a third stool, which is around stewardship of gospel opportunity. And this is with the company of a group, could be six, I think it, it’s not as good. If you drop below that small group dynamics or a group of 12, you get beyond that, then maybe the big bold extrovert dominates the conversation and the the quieter person really doesn’t get an opportunity to engage. And there’s whole life accountability questions, not simply the classic financial and sexual purity and integrity questions around the stewardship of energy and, and family life and, and work life and questions like, are you sharpening the saw, which sounds like a Stephen Covey kind of question. But around those three dynamics, the groups meet regularly, Daniel, with the goal of mutual evangelistic sharpening, basically elevated evangelism, intentionality, and intensity would be outcome or more evangelism Mojo. And Ben Jack has now created a three year mentoring guide. So there’s plenty of content. So if you’re a gifted leader, it’s just a grab bag of resources to facilitate a group that doesn’t even have to do evangelism together, but can support and reinforce each other on a journey of going deeper with Jesus and be more intentional about making him known. And Tom Phillips, who’s I think the longest serving member of the Billy Graham Teamy, served under Billy and serves under Franklin said it’s the most gospel centered evangelistic training resource he’s found. And it’s free.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:52):
Yeah. I’ve gone through all of the advanced material and it’s really tremendous. And, and so if there’s an evangelist who’s listening who want to start an advanced group, what’s the website where they can download the advanced guide?
Bill Hogg (17:07):
That’s a good question.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:08):
What’s, what’s the Canadian website? It’s a advanced or no, the messenger trust ca
Bill Hogg (17:14):
If, if you go to, this is the convoluted way cuz you put me on the spot and I’m sorry. Said. Yeah, no, it’s good. I was saying, Hey, I’m usually good at thinking on my feet. But if you go to message canada.org, you’ll see more, more of what we do. And then if you click on what we do, you’ll go down to the advance page, and there you can download PDF of the three year guide or the advanced group taster guide. Now it’s based on commitment. I think it’s the pair of a consecrated idea that you commit, you follow through, but you would meet regularly, which translates to an investment of two hours once a month. You would be committed to evangelistic sharpening. You would be committed to staying in contact maybe through a WhatsApp group and praying for each other.
(18:02):
But the, the resources free is a pdf. If if you go there, if you go to this event, we’ve got an event landing page, advance summit org g you can scroll down there and you’ll see the blue shiny three month taster guide where you can say, okay, we, we gotta be all in. We gotta prioritize this, but let’s journey for three months and see what the fruit is. And I think the fact that you meet a month apart creates a learning loop. Okay, we’ve heard this, do the homework, or we’ve heard this, put it into practice. I actually met with a discipleship pastor and, and at a large church, and they wanted to include it in their kind of Christian education curriculum for the winter. And it put about bill, if we did it six weeks in a row, I said, I’m really not persuaded by that because you, you need to have space and time to put it into practice, you know, and Steve, this fruit. So if you and I are in the group and you say, bill what, what’s the Holy Spirit asking you to do with your five that you’re focused on, your five pre questions? Well, I’m going to take so-and-so out for dinner and I’m praying for a gospel conversation. Then I meet a month later that’s giving me enough time to book the dinner. And you can say, bell, how did it go? I’d say, Daniel, pray for me. It was a complete disaster. Or I screwed up what happened?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:23):
Gives you time to test it and Yeah. Apply it in
Bill Hogg (19:26):
Your life. Exactly. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:27):
Yeah. Now I was talking to some of the, the guys that are here, and they were telling me that they’re part of an Eden group Yeah. Up in Edmonton, where they’re going into the community, living in the community, and evangelizing and discipling people. And so tell me about the Eden Group and, and, and what you’re trying to accomplish with that.
Bill Hogg (19:48):
Great question. So it started in the uk really inspired by a scripture in the book of Ezekiel that says the city that has been laid waste has become like the Garden of Eden. And so there’s a, a vision of community transformation through gospel transformation. And there could be remainers people who live in a broken postal code or a challenging community. There could be returners maybe who grew up there when this girl got a job moved out the city and they could return, or there could be relocate who hear the disruptive call of Jesus who says, as the Father has sent me, so I’m sending you. And they’re really teams of incarnation, missionaries, whooo, roots down deep. Sometimes we engage with the poor, maybe even in a paternalistic fashion where we come in, hand out some food, wander the streets and return to suburbia.
(20:45):
And I happen to live in suburbia. So I’m, I’m pointing at three fingers back at myself there. But you’ve gotta hear a disruptive call from Jesus because it’s, it’s costly. But where it started with predominantly young adults in the United Kingdom here in the call of Jesus to move into some of these challenging postal codes and communities. And there’s, there’s some unique socio-demographics in the uk. So places like Bench Hill or Charleston or, or within Shaw, within Shaw is a sprawl of a hundred thousand people in Greater Manchester. And lots and lots of these people are going backwards financially. And one of the metrics, you could look there, they’re getting free school meals. And you go, okay, is there a partner church? And is there a place of deprivation in poverty? So it’s really the story in Edmonton’s. Beautiful. She, Moses who grew up in Sri Lanka, was traumatized by things in his family.
(21:46):
And being in a war torn country was redeemed by Jesus and has a huge heart for the broken, the poor and the marginalized. So the idea as a team of people would live in gospel community, they would intentionally discern what’s the Holy Spirit doing? How can we join them? They would do community assessments. So we don’t make assumptions about what the needs are, find out what the needs are. Do some community ex Jesus in the agendas to share the love of God, to proclaim the gospel, to bless and elevate the prayer. Now the UK story is across 20 years, there’s been more than 77 0 teams deploying over 700 urban missionaries. So it feels like a movement to me. Wow. And, and they’ve seen measurable community transformation through asset-based community development as the lens. So things like isolation, crime recede, because why the people who are salt and light are living out in front of them loving the neighborhood and loving their neighbors.
(22:51):
And so th this is one of the things we’re, we’re pursuing here in Canada. We’ve got couple leading teams in Prince George, which is a city of about a hundred thousand 12 hour drive or a short hop and a puddle jumper type aircraft from Vancouver. And we’re partnering with a great church there as part of their micro church planting strategy that the Eden teams would be catalyst for micro church. But there are couples who are recruiting teams who’ve moved into low income apartments and finding out what Jesus wants them to do. Coastal Church, which has a great motto or mantra, helping make the city a better place. They’ve got a, an Eden team under the leadership of far and Angela Mcg far is grew up a Muslim in Iran, moved to Denmark, came to Canada, got hijacked by Jesus. And he’s about 15 years into a story of being an urban missionary, I think nine years as a pastor at Coastal Church. And they live in the downtown East side. And we wanna see a proliferation of that. We’re in conversations in other places. And the strange story is during Covid, the Lord’s expanded the Eden teams, you know, here in Canada where we’ve had some very challenging restrictions for what is a high-touch ministry. It’s a community engagement ministry. So, so that’s the heart of Eden. And if people hear the destructive call of Jesus to bring good news to the poor, you can reach out to us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:28):
So you’ve been involved in evangelism for many years in, in church planning and you call yourself evangelism catalyst. So what advice would you give to a young person who might feel called to be an evangelist?
Bill Hogg (24:43):
That’s a great question. I mean, I think they could learn from you, Daniel, cuz you’ve studied the great evangelists and not all the great evangelists are platform evangelists. Like I’ve got a growing friendship with Gordon, who used to be a VP of marketing with Tommy Hilfiger, and he’s having gospel encounters and he texts me all the time photographs of people, he’s led to Christ. And there’s, there’s low hanging fruits. So I think you can learn, I mean, I’ll learn how to give an altar call from Luis Pau. And, and I would consider Luis a source of encouragement, a friend, a mentor. We can be mentored by evangelist that will never actually have a cup of coffee with if we study their life. But I’m thinking as you ask that question. When I was recruited and interviewed to come on board the church planting network as national methodologist, my friend hired me and he became my boss.
(25:42):
Were no longer in that story. That’s for a different podcast. But when I was in South Africa at Cape Town 2010, the Lord spoke to me by direct immediate revelation from the Holy Spirit. He also spoke to me from exposition of scripture and conversations and, and challenged me about the evangelist being missing in action. But the Lord spoke to me and he said, I’m redeploying you as an apostolic evangelist and I want you to work with Gord Fleming. So Gord, my friend, became my boss, but he was a maniac or a lunatic. A lunatic in terms of interviews. I had 10 interviews.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:23):
Wow.
Bill Hogg (26:23):
And some of them were sneaky like guys, says, I’m just one of a cup of coffee with you and find out what’s going on in your soul. I’m like, you stinker. You’re, you’re here to scan man and man and find out what’s going on. But God wanted to make sure we’re on the same page. So there’s great wisdom in that. But one of our meetings, he said, I don’t believe in job descriptions. I said, that’s awesome. My life mission statement is, don’t fence me in. I don’t like job descriptions. Now, I had to have a job description because Revenue Canada insisted on it. But he said, if you did have a job description, it would have three things.
(27:00):
Stay close to Jesus. Ask God to break your heart for the lost and do whatever it takes to fulfill the mission. Now I think if you and I live to be Caleb’s at 85, or you and I have birthday parties when we’re 110, I think that’s our job description. And I think that would be the job description for someone. Stick close to Jesus. Jesus says, abide, abide, abide remain in me. And the primary invitation in call is not to be an evangelist. That’s the secondary or tertiary call. The primary call is to follow Jesus and to enjoy loving union and communion with Jesus. So don’t skimp on that. You know, figure out. And it’s maybe like learning to dance. If you grew up in a legalistic Pentecostal church, how do you dance dancing’s wrong? And, and then you find it’s okay to dance and you stumble around to dance for it.
(27:55):
But stumble into spending time with Jesus, immerse in yourself in the scriptures, learning to hear his voice, and then ask God to do something na supernatural to break your heart for the lost. I mean, John Piper says, it takes a miracle to have a broken heart for the lost. And I think he’s exactly right. When I was a young, obnoxious evangelist like abrasive, I’d love to go on a time machine and sit back and evaluate young belt inaction. I would get up there somewhere, I’d still get my sermons. And there were nightmare sermons. But I would be praying and because I heard Luis Pau say that he used to prep his sermons on his knees. So I would sometimes do my sermons prep on my knees, on my bed with a notebook and a Bible. And sometimes tears would splash on my Bible as I would visualize who would be there because my local church is an act of generosity and stupidity.
(28:54):
Let me loose when I was 16 and then during a pastoral vacancy, had me preach when I was in my late teens and maybe 20. And I was a, an arrogant young punk of an evangelist. But I would be weeping and I would, I would work it as a little manipulator. I would invite the neighbors, Hey, you know, I’d really appreciate your support if you’d come because they’ve asked me to preach at church. And it would mean a lot to me if you came and I’m just getting them in my evangelist crosshairs. But I would find myself weeping in the private place, but on types just weeping. If I keep the altar call and it’s stand there being been overcome and people who were old enough to be my parents would come forward in response to an altar call. Now what does that tell us?
(29:39):
A couple of things. God can use an arrogant self-important guy who hasn’t even found out who he is cuz he’s an adolescent. You don’t know who you are. But there’s a principle. And the principle is this, those that sew with tears shall read with joy. So I don’t always weep buckets for the lost but we need to invite Jesus to, to give us soft hearts. And then the trifecta was, do whatever it takes. Well I think the root of that is just be opening, obedient, and available. Don’t be ambitious for platform. Be opening receptive to opportunity. Give Jesus your yes and get a mentor or figure out how can this gift be stewarded? Cuz there’s not a ton of developmental pathways for evangelism. And one of the things we want to do is we want to find the flames of evangelism broadly. We want to support pastors in create a culture of evangelism, embolden everyday Christians. But the evangelist is uniquely catalytic for the advancement of the gospel. So we want to figure out how can we draw them in and create a heart, create a warm fire where we can hear the stories, pray for them, encourage them, resource them. So those, those are some of the thoughts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:00):
Well, thank you so much. Let’s finish by praying for those who are listening, that God would soften our hearts for the lost. Would you pray?
Bill Hogg (31:12):
Yeah.
(31:16):
Father, your heart is filled with tenderness and compassion for the lost. And we confess that we’re sometimes like Jonah the miserable prophet who has a theology of grace and mercy and salvation who can even make a, a bold declaration. Salvation is from the Lord. But like Jonah, we don’t carry your heart for the lost. When he protested that he didn’t want to come to Ninevah because he had that gut intuition that you wouldn’t judge the nites, you would extend mercy. And we thank you that you are the Lord, the Lord, gracious and compassionate, slow anger, and full of mercy. Jesus, we thank you that when you looped out on the crowds who were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd, your move with compassion. So we pray that you would baptize us with compassion. We pray that you would give us your eyes to see the lost around us and give us your beating heart for the loss. So we invite you to soften our hearts, Lord, break our hearts, give us the gift of tears and disrupt us where we’re just doing same old, same old, with a fresh revelation of your grace in mercy towards us. That we might not be like the older brother, but we would have your heart. Jesus, the faithful and true brother who came on a mission to rescue the lost because we asked this in your name for your glory. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:52):
Amen. Well, brother Bill, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bill Hogg (32:57):
Hey, thanks Daniel. It’s been a delight. Thanks for your hospitality and the opportunity to talk about things of first importance. God bless. Thank you.
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Happy Valentine’s Day | Celebrating God’s Love on Valentine’s Day
St. Valentine is a historical figure who is famously associated with the celebration of Valentine’s Day. Born in the 3rd century, St. Valentine lived in a time of great political and religious turmoil in the Roman Empire. Despite the challenges of his time, St. Valentine is remembered for his acts of kindness, compassion, and love, and is celebrated as a symbol of love and romance around the world.
St. Valentine was a Christian priest who served during the time of the Roman Empire under the reign of Claudius II. The Roman Emperor wanted his soldiers to be highly trained and focused so he declared marriage to be illegal for the young men of the empire.
Despite the ban on marriage and the persecution of Christians, Valentine continued to secretly perform marriages for young couples. For this reason, he was imprisoned and eventually executed on February 14th, which has since become known as St. Valentine’s Day.
Another version of the story tells us that St. Valentine was imprisoned for his Christian beliefs and that he performed miracles and healed the sick while he was in prison. He became known for his kind and gentle spirit, and many people believed that he was a symbol of love and hope.
Now St. Valentine has become an enduring symbol of love and compassion. Today, Valentine’s Day is celebrated on February 14th, and is a day for couples to express their love for each other through gifts, gestures, and affectionate acts.
Despite the challenges of his time, Valentine is remembered for his acts of kindness, compassion, and love, and is honored as a symbol of love and romance around the world. Today, Valentine’s Day is a day for people to express their love for one another, and to celebrate the spirit of love and compassion that St. Valentine represents.
Of course, the greatest love one could ever know is the love of God. Regardless of who we are, where we come from, or what we have done, God loves each and every one of us deeply and passionately.
The Bible tells us that God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins (John 3:16). This incredible act of love demonstrates just how much God values each and every person, and how deeply He desires to have a relationship with you. In fact, God’s love is so great that He wants us to know Him, to understand His love, and to experience His grace and mercy in our lives.
God’s love is not based on our achievements, our status, or our worth. It is not a love that is earned or deserved, but rather a love that is freely given. No matter what we have done or how far we have strayed, God’s love is always there, waiting for us to turn to Him and receive it.
God’s love is not limited to certain individuals or groups of people. It is a love that is extended to all people, regardless of race, ethnicity, or background. This means that every person on this planet is loved by God, and that every person has the opportunity to experience the amazing, life-changing love of God.
Whether we are rich or poor, famous or unknown, good or bad, God loves us all the same, and He desires to have a deep and meaningful relationship with each one of us. Whether you have a Valentine or not on Valentine’s day, know the God loves you more than any human ever could. Let’s celebrate His love on Valentine’s Day.
ABOUT DANIEL KING
Evangelist Daniel King, D.Min is on a mission to lead people to Jesus. He has visited over seventy nations preaching good news and he has led over two million people in a salvation prayer. He is often called “The Evangelism Coach.” To support King Ministries in our quest for souls, click here!
Pentecostal History | Larry Martin
How did the Pentecostal Movement start? What did the early Pentecostals learn about the Holy Spirit as they studied the book of Acts? Who were Charles Parham and William Seymour? What is the Holy Spirit doing in the world today? We talk about all this and more with Dr. Larry Martin today on The Evangelism Podcast.
Buy the book about Charles F. Parham:
Listen to Classical Pentecostal Sermons: https://pentecostalgold.com/
Learn more about the Azusa Street Revival: https://azusastreet.org/
Support the Campaign Ministry of Dr. Larry Martin: https://drlarrymartin.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
How did the Pentecostal movement start? What did the early Pentecostals learn about the Holy Spirit as they studied the Book of Acts? Who were Charles Parham and William Seymour? What is the Holy Spirit doing in the world today? We talk about all this and more with Dr. Larry Martin. Today on the Evangelism Podcast.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:35):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now, here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:59):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Dr. Larry Martin, thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast. Thank
Dr. Larry Martin (01:13):
You, Daniel. It’s great to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
Dr. Larry Martin is one of the premier Pentecostal historians that are alive today. He has published extensively on the roots of Pentecostalism, looking at some of the great figures throughout Pentecostal history. And he’s a great revivalist and a crusader as well. And so not only is he a historian, but he puts the power of the Holy Spirit to work in his life and ministry. And so, brother Larry, let’s talk a little bit about the roots of the Pentecostal movement, and let’s continue all the way through history to where we are today with what the Holy Spirit is doing today. So let’s begin with Charles Parham. You’ve just published a brand new book, and this is the most beautiful book of all the books that you’ve done. I, I love this book. It’s the Unlikely Father of modern Pentecostalism by about Charles Fox Parham, and it’s published by Whitaker House. And so you have done extensive research into his life. Let’s begin at the beginning. Who is Parham and what happened through his ministry?
Dr. Larry Martin (02:37):
Well, I, I believe that Charles Parham is unquestionably the founder of the modern Pentecostal charismatic movement. Some people like to spiritualize, as if, you know, it just came out of thin air. The Holy Spirit showed up, but God uses people and he used this man, Charles Parham, to be the father of the Pentecostal. He was at first he was a Methodist preacher and didn’t fit well in the Episcopal scheme of hierarchy. And so he left the Methodist Church, became more or less a holiness of evangelist, and was seeking hungry for God, looking for more, traveled all across the United States, went to Chicago where Moody School was, and Zion, where John Alexander Dowley was, went to New York, where, where Simpson was, went up to Maines Durham, Maine, and just traveled everywhere, looking for more of God. Came back to Topeka, Kansas and started a little Bible school and an old mansion there. And they were praying 24 hours a day and seeking the face of God, studying the Bible. And that’s where God showed up. And the Pentecostal movement began on January 1st, 1901.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:50):
Talk to me about that date in history and what led up to it, and then what happened on that date.
Dr. Larry Martin (04:01):
Yes, sir. The schools I said they had 24 hour prayer going. They, they studied, only studied the scripture. They didn’t have any textbooks. They didn’t study theology per se, or, or eschatology, or certainly didn’t study science in math. They studied the Bible. So it was a, it was a great environment for God to do something special. And, and Charles Parham had been interested in the idea of speaking in tongues. He had, he had encountered that up in Maine and had actually published something about him, one of his earlier newspapers. And so he had a hunger in him for more of the Lord. And he asked the students, he was going off to Kansas City to preach a, a meeting. He asked the students to study the Book of Acts, and he asked them not to congregate together, but to study separately each go of their own individual private devotional time and study the Book of Acts and find if there was any physical evidence that accompanied the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
(05:01):
And the students studied, as he said, he came back, he called them together in their main meeting room, and he began to question them what was their conclusion? And, and each of the students studying independently had pretty well come to the same conclusion that in the Book of Acts, when people were baptized in the Holy Spirit, it was evidenced by speaking in other tongues. And so they began to pray that God would give them the baptism Holy Spirit as he was given in the Book of Acts, that they would receive the Holy Spirit as the early apostles did with the evidence of speaking of other tongues. A and this sounds pretty common today among Pentecostal charismatic people, but at that time, that was an, an unordinary a very out of the ordinary thing because people had spoken in tongues throughout church history, but they only saw speaking in tongues as being a, a manifestation spirit like falling in the floor or laughing or something, like didn’t sit at anything beyond. And there were even people that called themselves Pentecostal, that, that didn’t have the baptism Holy Spirit. But as far as anyone tying the experience of the baptism Holy Spirit, with the experience of evidentiary tongues, no one had done that to this point. And so this was pretty revolutionary. It was caused a paradigm shift when it happened. And it was on January the first. But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:19):
Before we get there, okay, let, let’s talk a little bit about the Book of Acts. All right, because let’s just go through and, and look at how the Holy Spirit was poured out in the Book of Acts, cuz this is what they were doing on that day. They were just reading. They, they didn’t have textbooks, they’re just reading the Bible. They’re looking at acts correct and looking at how the Holy Spirit was poured out during the early church and believing that God could do the same thing today. So Acts chapter two, you have the day of Pentecost. The 120 disciples are in the upper room, and they’re all waiting for the Holy Spirit. Jesus told them, you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you and you should be buying witnesses. And he told ’em to go to Jerusalem and wait. So they’re there waiting Day of Pentecost, suddenly there’s a mighty rushing wind, there’s tongues of fire, and they all begin to speak in other tongues.
(07:09):
They’re, they’re all filled with the Holy Spirit, then they speak with tongues. Then Peter goes and preaches, and 3000 people are saved that day. Alright? Then you have Acts chapter four, which I like to call the, the Jerusalem refill. So Acts 4 31, it says, when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. Okay? So some of the same people that had been filled on the day of Pentecost, right, were probably there in Acts four getting filled again. Then you have Acts chapter eight when it says that when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard what was happening in Samaria, and that they had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. So when they, Peter and John had come down to Samaria, they prayed for them that they may receive the Holy Spirit because they had been baptized, the, the evangelist Philip had gone, he had baptized them, but they hadn’t been filled with the Holy Spirit yet. And so Peter and John laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. And there must have been some type of physical manifestation because when Simon, the sorcerer saw what was happening, he was amazed, and he actually wanted to pay money in order to receive it. So there must have been something physical that was happening there in Acts eight to catch the attention of Simon, the sorcerer.
Dr. Larry Martin (08:34):
That’s exactly right, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:35):
Then you come to Acts chapter nine, when Saul meets Jesus in the Holy Spirit. So he’s on the road to Damascus and Saul is, is hit with a blinding light. He sees a vision, he’s knocked off his horse, he’s blinded. He, he is Jesus appears to him and tells him to go to Anais. And so Acts nine 17, it says, Ananias went with hi went his way and entered the house and laying his hands on him, he said, brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you can came, he sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. And we know that Paul spoke in tongues because later on he says, I pray in tongues more than all of you. That’s correct. And so he was filled with the Holy Spirit, and he’s spoke in tongues.
(09:28):
Then you have Acts chapter 10 at the House of Cornelius, the Gentile. And so Acts 10 44 and 48 says, while Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, can anyone forbid water that there should not be baptized who had received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay for a few days. And so what’s really interesting, Peter is in the middle of preaching, and as he’s preach, he hasn’t even finished his sermon yet. The Holy Spirit is poured out upon them, and they all begin to speak in tongues.
(10:22):
And these are Gentiles. And it was just like on the day of Pentecost, they began to speak in tongues just like on the day of Pentecost. And it really amazed all of the, the Jews, those who were circumcised, because they thought it was, this was a gift only for the Jews. Now, what’s really interesting is that in Acts eight with the Samaritans, they were baptized in water. Then when they, the Peter and John came in, laid hands with them, then they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, in Acts 10 with Cornelius, they’re baptized in the Holy Spirit first. And then he says, why shouldn’t they be baptized in water? And and so that tells me that God is not concerned with the order so much as he is concerned with getting his spirit into every person, right? And so some people you know, they want to be very analytical and, and, and analyze everything that God does. And so you have like the, the order of salvation. First this happens, and then that happens, and then that, that happens. But it seems like to God the order doesn’t matter so much as just I want everyone to receive everything that I have to give.
Dr. Larry Martin (11:35):
Another important lesson there in, in those verses Daniel, is some people would teach that water baptism is essential to salvation, that there’s some salvation, saving grace in water baptism. But it’s clear here, they receive the Holy Spirit before they receive water baptism. Jesus said that the world receive him. So obviously these people were saved and they were saved apart from water baptism. Although it’s important to obedience the most important thing is that we receive Christ and be baptized in his spirit.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:05):
And then another time the Spirit is poured out is Acts chapter 19 verse one through seven. And then it says, when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And then Paul laid his hands on them. The Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. And there were about 12 men there in Ephesus who received. Now, just recently, you and I were together in Turkey, right? And we got to go to the, the Agia, Sophia, the the church building there built by the Orthodox Church that for a thousand years was the largest building on Earth. Well, while we were there, I flew down to Ephesus and I got to walk the, the streets of Ephesus. And it was so cool being there in that place. And I was thinking about these 12 men that had received the Holy Spirit. And what’s really interesting here in Acts 19 is that they receive the Holy Spirit, they speak in tongues, and then they prophesy. And so along with the, the speaking in tongues, which is a physical manifestation of receiving the gift, you have the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. So you’ve got prophecy gifts of healing you know, words of wisdom, words of knowledge. All these things come when the Holy Spirit comes upon someone.
Dr. Larry Martin (13:25):
Exactly something else, Daniel, about Acts 19, I think it’s really important. And that’s in the, in the, the, the wording, the translation most modern translations to the Bible. I’m certainly not against translations, and I’m not kind of a King James, only guy. But most translations phrase that, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? That’s the N I V. Almost all the new translations say, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? But the actual Greek of that is having believed, did you receive the Holy Spirit? And it is clear in the original that there are two separate incidents. You become a believer, you’re baptized in the Holy Spirit. And a lot of people have taught over the years that when you’re saved, you receive the baptism Holy Spirit. Well, when you are saved, you do receive the Holy Spirit. He’s with you. He, he was active in your salvation. But the baptism, holy Spirit, is a second and distinct work of God’s grace. And that’s proven by the original writing there in Acts 19.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:27):
And so I think these instances of what God did in the Book of Acts is not just something that happened historically. I I think this is not just description, but this is prescription for today. The Holy Spirit is God. The Bible says Jesus Christ is the same. Yesterday, today, and forever in Malachi three, six, God says, I am Jehovah, I change not. And so the Holy Spirit doesn’t change. And so the same Holy Spirit that was poured out in the Book of Acts is available to people today. God does not change. The Holy Spirit doesn’t change. You can’t say that something happened in Acts but is not needed today because God has given us his word so that we can understand the Holy Spirit, so that we can understand who he is, how he operates, what He does. And and so I think that it’s very valuable what these early Pentecostal did.
(15:28):
They went to the Word of God, and they formed their theology based on what they saw in the Book of Acts. They, they were reading God’s word, and they were, were think, okay, if we want to be like the early church, what practice should we have? Right? And and I think sometimes in the modern church, we have our theology and, and then we go and try to impose our theology on God’s word. And that’s where some verses get thrown out. Or we say, that is not for today. But really, I think what we should do is we should let God’s word form our theology rather than trying to force our theology to shape how we read God’s word.
Dr. Larry Martin (16:13):
That’s right, Daniel. What, what I teachwhen I teach this, and I will be doing that in the morning. What I teach is they were not an experience looking for a doctrine. A lot of times today, as you said, we bring our theology and then try to make the word of God comply. But we also do that with our experience. People have some supernatural experience, and then they try to look for a scripture to prove that experience. And these people went to the scripture first, they found the experience in scripture, and then began to seek an experience according to God’s word. And I think that’s the, that’s the most important distinction there, that their, their hunger was to see God do what he had had done in the past. And not just, they weren’t just seeking speaking in tongues or this baptism whole spirit. They, they called themselves the apostolic faith because they wanted a restoration of everything that happened in the Book of Acts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:10):
All right, so let’s get back to the, the historic fact. We, we went to acts. So we went all the way back to first century Holy Spirit. Now let’s go back to 1901 and, and tell us what was happening that morning in January 1st, 1901.
Dr. Larry Martin (17:27):
It, it actually started on December 31st. The, the group that met with Paul that had a church there where they met in the old mansion, the Stones Mansion, and they were having a watch night service. A lot of churches don’t do this today, but even when I was a kid growing up, we always had a watch night service on December the 31st. And we would sing and preach and pray, and tried to at midnight when the new year started, to have a prayer meeting and pray in the New Year, pray the old year out, and the new year in, that’s what Parham’s group was doing. They were having watch night and sometimes around midnight. And you know, I probably researched this as much as anybody possibly could. And I can’t tell you if it was before midnight or after midnight or, or at midnight, I just say around midnight, they were praying.
(18:15):
And a lady at the school named Agnes Osmond she was had done gospel work. She was, by the way, all the students there, they were not like Bible school students out here at ORU that were 18, 20 years old. These were mostly mature adults that had been in the ministry. Most of them had done various kinds of gospel work, pastoring and other things. And Agnes Osmond was a a recognized gospel worker. She had a sister that was a missionary and actually died on the mission field. And so she was a, she was a mature woman of God, and she asked Charles Parum if he would pray for her, that she might receive the baptism of Holy Spirit, as they did in the Book of Acts with the evidence of speaking and other tongues. At first, Charles Parum hesitated.
(19:04):
He himself had not had this experience, but he agreed and decided he would pray for her. And when he laid hands on her, Agnes Osmond began to speak in tongues. And that moment when she had that experience was the birth of the Pentecostal movement. She was so baptized in the Holy Spirit that she spoke in tongues for days. She couldn’t speak in English. They would give her paper, and she couldn’t write in English. She’d write, they called it Riding in Tongues. I’ve seen some copies of it looks some something like chicken scratch. But that’s what they said. She was writing in tongues. And over the next few days, revival broke out there in Topeka, a number of people, Charles Palm, a number of others, received the baptism. Holy Spirit. It was such a, a phenomenal thing that newspapers came from all across America from Chicago and from St. Louis and Kansas City Newspapers came, and this revival was front page news that God was pouring out his spirit in a powerful way. So that, that was how the movement started. That was the first day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:07):
Okay, so then talk to us some about the history of Charles Parum. You’ve written a, a great book on it. Charles Fox Parum by Dr. Larry Martin. And you, you go into some of his history. He, he was flawed as a human being, as all of us are, but God used him. What happened after the Topeka outpouring?
Dr. Larry Martin (20:36):
Several things that are important to note. One is Charles Parham believed that when they received the baptism, holy Spirit speaking in tongues, that they could go anywhere in the world and preach without learning a language that didn’t happen as they expected. It would’ve
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:52):
Been useful as a missionary to have
Dr. Larry Martin (20:54):
That it be great, and it does happen on rare occasions, but it didn’t happen generally as they thought it would. And the other thing is, he thought that this revival was going to be immediate and massive, and it wasn’t. In fact he and his wife went to Kansas City and ended up then going to Lawrence, Kansas, trying to hold meetings, tried to start another school. And almost everything he did failed. He had a child that was sick, and he was a faith healer. They didn’t believe in going to doctors and his child died, and that was a extremely difficult season for them. The, they, they become unpopular. They, his wife says they almost starved to death for a season. It was, it was a very difficult time. The movement was real. The experience was real, but the timing wasn’t what he thought it was.
(21:40):
And they wandered around in that spiritual wilderness for a while, and they ended up in a little town called El Dorado Springs, Missouri. And El Dorado Springs is one of those places in America that has a natural spring that back 125 years ago, people thought these spring waters would bring healing to them if they had whatever, rheumatism or arthritis or whatever, they’d come to those springs. And so here at Parham is a faith, healing, faith leader, praying for the sick, what better place to go than the place where all the sick people are. So he, he sets up meetings in El Dorado Springs and has a, a apartment that he’s rented there, and he’s preaching the gospel at the Springs. There’s a lady there named Mary Arthur. She was from Galena, Kansas. And Mary Arthur was really sick. She had intestinal plumbing problems.
(22:32):
She was blind in one eye, going blind in the other eye, and she didn’t wanna be there that summer. She had been there twice before. It didn’t help her, but she was so sick. Her husband insisted that she go and try to be in the water one more time to be healed. And she heard Charles Palm preach, and faith rose in her heart. She went over to the place where he was living, staying, praying for people. Charles Parham prayed for her. Well, she was so blinded that she had pain in her eyes when she saw the sunshine. So she would cover her eyes up when she was outside, and she left Paul’s home, and she had a grandchild with her that was leading her back to her place. And the grandchild flitted off the way children are doing, she’s there on the street by herself and she can’t see.
(23:16):
And she’s crying out for the child. And in desperation, she takes this cover off of her eyes. And when she did, she was completely healed. Her eyes were like 2020. She could see perfectly. And not only that, but she soon realized that everything else that was wrong with her was, well, every maladies like God had done a complete overhaul in her, and she was so excited. She went home, invited Charles Parham to Galena, Kansas, and he came there, he preached it. Her church was the Methodist church. He preached in her house, then they put up a big tent, and he preached in the tent. And that wasn’t big enough. They rented at a storefront. It was two, two separate buildings separated by a wall, took this wall out, had this massive hall, and hundreds of people came to Christ. Hundreds of people received the baptismal Holy Spirit, miracles and healings.
(24:04):
What he had thought would happen in Topeka three, four years before now begins to evidence itself in Galena, Kansas. And real Pentecostal revival broke out. It spread from Kansas over to Joplin, Missouri. Hundreds were saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit of Joplin, Missouri. And all around that four state area there Kansas and Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, all in that area. God was moving. And, and during this season, he received an invitation to go to Texas, and he went to Texas as a long story. I won’t tell it all, but he went to Texas. He was sick when he went there. God touched his body. Revival broke out in a little town called Orchard, Texas, till almost every person in Orchard was saved. Almost every family in the town was saved. And that’s when Pentecost really began to move. I I say it was born in Topeka, and it crawled around in Kansas and Missouri and Oklahoma. It got to Houston, and it stood on its feet and started walking because from Orchard, they went over to Houston, Texas, had a great meeting in Houston and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:09):
Uhor. And one of the people that was in that Houston meeting yes, was William Seymour. Yes. And so talked to us about how he was received in Houston, and then what happened when Will William Seymour went over to Azusa Street Sure. In California. Sure.
Dr. Larry Martin (25:32):
William Seymour was African American man. His parents had been slaves. He was raised in obscurity and poverty at one time. They did a affidavit. His, his mother was trying to get a pension, and they did an affidavit, and the entire family’s possessions was worth 65 cents. All of their furniture, all their clothes, everything they owned was valued at 65 cents. Poverty, like none of us can imagine. And also in a time of great racial discrimination. He was he was in a, in an area where a group called the Knights of the White Cele were like the KKK terrorized in African Americans. He escaped that. He went up north he got saved in Cincinnati, Ohio. No, in
(26:23):
Indianapolis, Indiana. He’d been in Chicago, went to Cincinnati, ended up then in Houston. And in Houston he met Charles Par. And the way Seymour met Parum is par had a lady that was taking care of her kids and cooking for him and his family. And her name was Lucy Ferrell. And she was the pastor of a Little Holiness church in Houston. She went to Kansas with Par and Seymour pastor at her church for a little while, at least preached in the church. And so he met Charles Parham. Charles Parum had a Bible school going there in Houston. He was, he had these 12 week schools where he had teach the fundamentals of the faith. And, and Seymour went to the school. I think I should mention, there’s a lot of, lot of discussion about whether or not Seymour was in the school or outside the school.
(27:09):
Some people say he only sat in the hallway outside and the door was open. And that might have happened maybe for a season. But there’s a number of eyewitnesses who were there that says, Seymour sat in the classroom. So I think there came a time that they accommodated him in the classes, but he and Charles Par would preach together. But because of the Jim Clo Crow laws at that time, par would preach to white people and Seymour preach to black people had racists separated. And a lady there heard Seymour preach and invited him to come to Los Angeles and preach in their church in Los Angeles. And that again, changed the world. Seymour made his trip to Los Angeles, and when he got there, he preached in this hole in his church and preached on the baptism Holy Spirit, which by the way, he had not received.
(27:54):
And the church rejected the teaching and locked him out of the church. He joined himself with a group of praying people at two 14 Bonnie Bra Street, where they were seeking God every night in cottage prayer meetings, Ruth and Richard Asbury. And on April the ninth, 1906, while they were praying there at Bonnie Bra Street, the Holy Spirit fell first on a man named Edward Lee at his home. And then they went over and it fell out. The Bon Bra Street and Glory of God came down. A revival was birthed on April the 9/19/06. Within a week, they couldn’t hold their services in the little house that was overflowing and people out in the street. So they looked for a building to rent, found a dilapidated o abandoned church that had been converted into a warehouse at 312 Azusa Street. Moved in there. When they moved in, God moved in there with them. It’s probably the most famous address in Pentecostalism. One of the most famous addresses in Christianity, three 12 Azusa Street, where God came down.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:55):
What happened at the Azusa Street Revival?
Dr. Larry Martin (28:59):
It’s, it’s almost beyond description, how God moved there. They, they had services three times a day, 10 o’clock in the morning, and at noon, at seven o’clock at night. But the 12 o’clock service, excuse me, the 10 o’clock service was still going at 12 and 12 o’clock. Service didn’t ever stop before seven. So they were literally in service from 10 o’clock in the morning till after midnight, seven days a week. People came from all over the world. People would come to the train station. They had ambassadors there that would meet ’em and bring them to the mission. People in Los Angeles would be doing their business, that’d hear the singing from Ausa Street. They’d stop and be captured by it. They’d, the Holy Spirit that had stayed there for hours, hundreds were saved, hundreds of people healed and, and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Missionaries began to go out immediately to all the four corners of the earth and all across the US spreading the Pentecostal message when, when it was born in Topeka. And it crawled around in Oklahoma, Texas, and stood up, I mean, Oklahoma and Missouri and Arkansas. It stood up in Texas, and it started running in California and literally ran around the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:11):
And so people from all over came to Ausa Street. They were filled with the Holy Spirit. They began to speak in other tongues. And then many of them launched out as missionaries, going to different parts of the world, spreading this message of the Holy Spirit. Let’s, let’s talk about what God has done since then. Because now if you look at global statistics, the fastest growing part of the church is the Pentecostal Church, the people who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. And Pentecostals originally were called Pentecostals because they believed in the power of Pentecost. And then for a while they were called charismatics, because it comes from the, the Greek ward charisma, which means gift. They believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And, and now places like or Roberts University are using a, a new language to describe the same experience.
(31:16):
They’re, they’re calling a spirit empowered believers, because over the years, the word Pentecostal, the word charismatic, has picked up some baggage. And, and so there’s a lot of people that they can agree with the power of the Holy Spirit. And so we are spirit empowered believers. We believe in the, the move of the, the Holy Spirit. So kind of as a historian, kind of walk me through decade by decade from this, the early 1910s until today, kind of what you feel that the Holy Spirit was doing in each decade as we’ve seen the growth of this Holy Spirit movement.
Dr. Larry Martin (31:56):
Well, as we say, the revival began there at Azusa Street in 1906. It wasn’t long after that, before the end of that decade, some of the Pentecostal denominations begin to form the church of God in Christ, the predominantly Black Pentecostal denomination formed. And the next decade, the Assemblies of God and the Pentecostal Church of God, as the movement really grew exponentially through all that period in the forties and fifties. It was marked by Great Healing Revival. Some of your, your great heroes were outta that time
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:33):
Period. Yeah. So you had the, the Voice of Healing Movement. Yes. Which really started with William. And then Gordon Lindsay, who started Christ for the Nations down in Dallas, Texas worked with with Branham. And Branham was an uneducated prophet, but Gordon Lindsay was a writer. And so he wrote some 200 books and, and really documented what God was doing. Then he started The Voice of Healing Magazine, and they featured articles from people like aa, Allen TL Osborn who, who else were part of the Voice of Healing. I think RW Schmbach was later on, later, later. And, and so, so they were featuring these stories of revivals that were F.F. Bosworth was part of it, and, and featuring the stories of these different people that were doing revivals in different parts of the United States. And that spread what God was doing during the Voice of Healing Revival. Alright, so that’s, that’s the forties and fifties then, then what started happening,
Dr. Larry Martin (33:48):
By the way, let me say that you mentioned Gordon. Lindsay there very important leader in that time period especially. But he was saved in a meeting that Charles Parham was preaching. So ties from the very beginning through Gordon Lindsay’s ministry, and then in the sixties and seventies, the Pentecostal denominations continued to grow. And of course, there’s always been independent fellowships, the associated with the Pentecostal charismatic movement, or the spirit empowered people, as you say. But sixties and seventies, the charismatic renewal began probably most people mark the beginning of it with pastor receiving the baptism Holy Spirit at Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, California. And he, he, he spread the message to denominational churches. And eventually Catholics began to receive the baptismal Holy Spirit. They had great Notre Dame conferences where, where it was celebrated this Pentecostal movement among Catholics. And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:48):
And you had David DuPluse, who was a big part of that. I, I remember hearing one of his sermons, I think it was preached at one of the, the gatherings of people from all over the world, many different churches. And, and he quoted in Acts two, it, the, the same verse that, that Peter quoted from the book of Joel that says that the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon all flesh. And so he said The Holy Spirit being poured out, that’s the charismatic movement upon all flesh. That is the ecumenical movement. And so God does not want to be confined to just one denomination or one group of people. The Holy Spirit is available for people from every different faith tradition anyone who reaches out towards God the Holy Spirit is there to fill them and to give them power to be a witness.
Dr. Larry Martin (35:47):
Absolutely. And those the Charismatic renewal, though it was extremely strong in the sixties and seventies, it continues today. There’s still a lot of those early charismatics tried to stay within their denomination, but a lot of them were rejected by their denomination, and they ended up forming in this independent fellowships or murdering into established denominations that have continued to grow. I think one of the greatest growth today in America is among the Hispanics. And we see so many has immigrants from Latin American countries where they’ve experienced great Pentecostal revival. I know particularly in the Assemblies of God, all of the growth in the Assemblies of God is just about among the ethnic minorities. And you mentioned Africa great missionaries from Jesus and Street went to Africa and started the work there, and it’s continued and it’s just exploded with men like Reinhardt Bunky and others doing campaigns there till today. One estimate and, and different people give you a different number one estimate, 650 million spirit-filled people in the world today the largest block in Protestant Christianity. I think it’s the greatest revival in the history of the Christian Church, what God has done in the last 125 years through the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:03):
Pentecostal. So I’m, I’m working on a book on the history of evangelism and what God has done through evangelists throughout the world. And there’s been a lot of research on people like, like Billy Graham and George Whitfield Jonathan Edwards, some of these early American evangelists, you know, Billy Sunday Great evangelists at the turn of the century. But there hasn’t been that much research done on the Hispanic world. And so I’m, in my book, I’m trying to document what God’s been doing in the Hispanic world, what God’s been doing in Africa, because there are great men of God in Africa that no one in America has heard of, but they’ve been responsible for millions of people coming into the kingdom of God. And so one of the early Hispanic healing evangelists, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this guy Francisco Zaba.
(38:01):
He was a Pentecostal healing evangelist, and he was one of the ones who went to the Azusa Street revival, filled with the Holy Spirit, and he began doing revivals among all of the Hispanics in America. And from his ministry, four different Hispanic Pentecostal denominations were, were formed in the early 19 hundreds. Wow. And, and so it is really neat. And, and, and then you have great Hispanic evangelists throughout history that have taken the power of the Holy Spirit. People like Cash, Luna Carlos Anak from ar, Argentina, cla Frak from Argentina, and just great pastors from all over the, the Hispanic world where God is really moving in a great way.
Dr. Larry Martin (38:47):
A absolutely. And you know, another interesting fact, Daniel, about the success of this movement, the largest church in the world is a Pentecostal charismatic church in so Korea. That being said, of course, the largest church in Asia, which would be that church is charismatic Pentecostal, the largest church in Europe is a spirit empowered church. The largest church in Africa is a spirit empowered church. The largest church in South America, spirit, largest church in the United States is a spirit empowered church. And no one dreamed in these early days of the outpouring that it, that I guess those involved might have dreamed it, but the world certainly did not dream the success of the movement. One, one man who was a denominational leader in one of the holiness denominations observed the Ausa Street Revival. And he said, if you threw a pebble into the ocean, it would make more waves than what this revival will bring to the world. And if any man should ever be recorded as the worst prophet in human history, that would be the man. Cuz
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:51):
There have been waves that continue to this day. All right, now let’s look into the future. What do you see the Holy Spirit doing over the next few years? Well, what can we look for and what should we be praying for?
Dr. Larry Martin (40:05):
Well, obviously we’re praying for revival places, as you mentioned, like Africa are on fire for God, and churches growing by leaps and bounds in many nations in Africa. So many, so many more millions of Pentecostal believers in Africa. And for Brazil, for example, there’s, there’s probably a quote from the Assemblies of God. There’s probably 20 times more similar to God people in Brazil than there are in the United States. And God’s gonna continue to move in Asia and Africa and Central America, south America. We need to pray that that same spirit of revival will sweep across the United States. And I’m just believing God for that. I was praying one time and after the great revival at Brownsville, and it seemed like that well, Dr. Cho prophesied and said the revival was spread from Brownsville to the whole United States, and we didn’t see it happen or hasn’t happened as of yet.
(40:57):
And I was praying one time, and I felt like the Lord spoke to me, that revival was like a hurricane. I lived down on the coast for a while in Pensacola when a hurricane stalls out off the coast. If a if a hurricane is, you know five miles out, 10 miles out, and it stalls, it’s not going away. It’s just gaining strength when it hovers over those warm waters. And I believe that the power of the Holy Spirit is maybe has stalled, but it’s not losing out, it’s gaining strength. And I’m praying that America gets hit by category five revival that’ll sweep millions into the kingdom.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (41:36):
Amen. Well, as you’re listening, if you want to be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, just like on the day of Pentecost, encourage you to, to pray and ask for the Holy Spirit, God will give you and, and fill you with the Holy Spirit. And you will have power to, to be a witness and, and to share the gospel a around the world. Let’s just finish with a word of prayer and, and encourage the people who are listening that the same Holy Spirit that we saw in the day of Pentecost that we saw in the early years of the Pentecostal movement can impact them today.
Dr. Larry Martin (42:14):
Amen. I’ve probably said this a thousand times in meetings, but I wanna say it again today for you. The reason we talk about history is not to live in the past. We don’t wanna live in the past. We’re living today and we’re living for tomorrow. But we talk about history because if God ever did anything, he can do that thing again. And if God ever moved in one place, God can move in any place. And if God ever moved on one person, then God can move on any person that means you where you are. And at this time, God can do for you anything that He’s ever done through any of the great people we studied about in history. And God wants to do that for you. And we’re gonna pray right now that God will use you. Heavenly Father, we thank you today for this podcast, the opportunity to share a little bit of the history of your work.
(43:05):
Lord, it’s not the work of man because everything that man touches becomes just human, but it is divine. And we thank you Lord, that you’ve moved among men, that you’ve used faithful men like Parham and Seymour and Gordon, Lindsay, and all the others we’ve talked about today, that you’ve used these men to bring the message of Christ to a lost and dying world. Lord, I pray for everyone listening this podcast today. I, if there’s anyone that doesn’t know you, I pray that the Holy Spirit will bring them to you. But Lord, those that are believers and are listening today, I pray you give them a new power. I pray that you give them a fresh vision. Lord, show them today that as God used others, God can use them. I pray that the same mantle of the Holy Spirit that was in Topeka and the same mantle of the Holy Spirit that was at a Zeus street, that that mantle will fall across their shoulders right now, I pray for a fresh and a new anointing. Ask your Lord that you would use these listeners to take this gospel to the whole world and change this world for Jesus’ sake. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (44:08):
Amen. Thank you, Dr. Larry Martin. Thank
Dr. Larry Martin (44:11):
You.
Evangelism Podcast Host (44:12):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (45:13):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (46:34):
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Larry Martin | Pentecostal Gold
Dr. Larry Martin hosts a website called Pentecostal Gold. On this website you can find classical Pentecostal sermons from some of the greatest Holy Spriit preachers of the past fifty years. Today we talk about the power of the Holy Spirit and how you can be filled with the Holy Spirit. We also talk about how Dr. Martin started doing crusades and what he has seen God do in various nations like Ethiopia and Brazil.
Listen to Classical Pentecostal Sermons: https://pentecostalgold.com/
Learn more about the Azusa Street Revival: https://azusastreet.org/
Support the Campaign Ministry of Dr. Larry Martin: https://drlarrymartin.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Dr. Larry Martin hosts a website called Pentecostal Gold. On this website, you can find classical Pentecostal sermons with some of the greatest Holy Spirit preachers of the past 50 years. Today we talk about the power of the Holy Spirit and how you can be filled with the Holy Spirit. We also talk about how Dr. Martin started doing crusades and what he has seen God do in various nations like Ethiopia and Brazil.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:39):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Dr. Larry Martin, thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Larry Martin (01:17):
Thank you, Dr. Daniel. It’s good to be with you today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:20):
Well, I am so excited to have you. Uh, you have been doing Crusades around the world, and let’s talk a little bit about the, the Crusades that you’ve been doing. You’re also a Pentecostal historian and you have a website called, uh, Pentecostal Gold. And so that website has sermons that people can listen to from some of the greatest preachers in Pentecostal history. So let’s start out by talking about the Crusades, and then we’ll talk about the website. So let’s just begin at the beginning. How did you start doing Crusades?
Larry Martin (01:59):
That’s a very interesting story, Daniel, and, and you’re very much involved in it. I was, uh, invited to come to Ethiopia. I actually had some sky miles and I could go somewhere, and I contacted the Pentecostal Church of God and asked them if any of their missionaries needed help. And they said they needed help at a Bible school in Ethiopia. So I flew over to Ethiopia and taught at the Bible School, and I preached in a few churches and the man that had hosted me is Per Akvist. Per said, well, we’re having a crusade and we’d like for you to go with us for the crusade. And I was excited for the opportunity. I didn’t know much about the Crusade ministry or who was doing the crusade. I found out it was, uh, our friend here, Daniel King. And so pair drug me along to Daniel’s crusade.
(02:46):
And Daniel invited me to take part in the morning sessions and the teaching sessions and had an opportunity to testify before the great crowd there at the Crusade. And I’m telling you, I got bit by the crusade bug. I had really had dreamed all my life doing what, uh, I started doing with the Crusades. And uh, uh, Daniel was a tremendous blessing to me. We, we came back to Addis Ababa and, and sat down in the restaurant in the hotel, and I said, Daniel, how do you do this? And, and, uh, he began to explain some things to me that, uh, it was mostly just a faith effort that he’d scheduled a crusade and trusted God to provide the finances. And good people like you listening to this podcast were willing to give. And I pray you continue to give and support Daniel’s great ministry.
(03:35):
But, uh, he said, God provided, and he did the Crusades. And so I thought, well, if Daniel could do that, I could do that. And he gave me all kinds of resources and materials, and I went home and printed a brochure and started raising money. And, and within a year, we’d raised the money for the first crusade in Ethiopia. And, uh, we had a tremendous crusade at place called me Kenia. In fact, it was the greatest crusade we’ve had to date. We saw over 40,000 people make a first time decision for Christ. And, uh, well, I said I had been been bitten by the crusade bug before, but after we had that meeting, there was no stopping it. And we’ve been going ever since. And I just wanna publicly say thank you, Daniel. Thank you for your heart for evangelism, and thank you for your generosity and sharing your vision and your resources with me. And, and you’re my hero. So thank you so much,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
<laugh>. Well, thank you. It is an honor to be able to help other ministers of the gospel. And I love coaching people in evangelism, and most of the people I coach are younger than me. Uh, young guys come and ask me questions like, how do I get started doing crusades? How do I raise money for my ministry? How do I book speaking engagements at churches? I mean, all the different aspects of, of trying to start a ministry. How do I do my accounting? How do I, uh, take care of the money once I, I raise it? And so I’ve been answering all these questions and coaching people in evangelism, and then how do I preach the gospel? How do I cast out demons? How do I pray for the sick? And I love helping people to learn in those different areas. And so most of the guys that I talk to are much younger than me. And, uh, you’re, uh, not younger than me. You’re, you’re quite a bit older than me, probably old enough to be my dad. How, how, how
Larry Martin (05:30):
Old? Maybe your grandfather.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:31):
Maybe my grandfather.
Larry Martin (05:32):
I’m 70 years
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:33):
Old Dan. 70, so I just turned 44. So I’m young enough to be your son or grandson. But, uh, it’s neat that the principles work for anyone, whether they’re just starting out in ministry. You, you, you’ve been in ministry longer than I’ve been alive, and so you, you knew a lot about ministry, but it’s amazing when you give a little key, it unlocks a door. And now you have been doing crusades all over the world. So talk to me about some of the places that you’ve gone and done crusades and what you’ve seen God do in in those events.
Larry Martin (06:06):
Primarily, uh, Daniel, we’ve been in Ethiopia. Uh, I, I think we’ve done 10 crusades in Ethiopia and, uh, different cities there. And, uh, as this, uh, give thanks to God, thousands of people have come to Christ. But we’ve seen some tremendous miracles. I I remember, uh, one young boy that was in the prayer tent that was too sick to come to the crusade he was in, as if he was in a coma. Really don’t know what was wrong with him. His mother said he had not moved in three days, and that’s that he hadn’t moved his tongue. He hadn’t blinked his eyes. He, he was really, uh, in very bad shape. And a couple of our team workers went back and prayed for him and didn’t see any visible result. In fact, the, uh, one of the pastors that prayed for him actually thought the boy had died while he was praying.
(06:53):
His, uh, breathing was so shall he thought he was dead. And, uh, he left to come back on the stage. He told his mother, said, uh, we’re gonna be praying for your son today. We believe that, uh, he’ll give a testimony tonight. And boy, by the grace of God, that night, that young boy was on the stage saying that God had completely healed him. And we followed up through Facebook. He’s still doing well. It was a miracle, tremendous miracle. We see, of course, we see things like that. And, uh, it, it doesn’t matter how many times you see it, you still drop your jaw and say, wow, isn’t God a powerful God?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:25):
Amen. Now, you’ve also been to Brazil with my friend Ruben’s Kuya, who has a great Brazilian ministry.
Larry Martin (07:33):
We have, uh, been with, uh, Ruben’s twice, and we’ll be back to Brazil two times this year. And by the way, our friend Rubens greet you, uh, we saw him this week and he said, uh, hello to Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:45):
Well, he is a wonderful friend, and I just love his passion for God. And then you’re also going in the next few months to Bangladesh, into, uh, what,
Larry Martin (07:59):
Uh, Sri Lanka.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:00):
Sri Lanka. And so tell me about what you’re gonna be doing in those places.
Larry Martin (08:03):
In both of those. We’ll have a smaller crusade. Uh, it won’t be quite as large as the ones we have in Ethiopia and Brazil, but in each crusade they’ll plat a church. So it’s exciting to know that even though it might not be preaching to 20,000 people, that when we leave the gospel will continue to be preached there through a local church out of both of those crusades. So that excites us. And, and, uh, we also had a campaign in Pakistan. Daniel, one of the most successful campaigns we had. So God’s been really good to us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:33):
That’s awesome. Well, let’s talk about your website, which I think will be very interesting to people who are listening to the podcast. It’s called Pentecostal Gold, and it is a sermon archive of thousands of classic Pentecostal sermons. And throughout Pentecostal history, people have been on fire full of the Holy Spirit preaching the word. And for many years, these were recorded on cassette tapes, on reel to reel tapes, different things. And you have put the work in to go into collect these sermons. You’re asking permission from either the, the person who gave this sermon or from their family to, to put it up on the website, and now it’s available free of char free of charge on pentecostal gold.com. And so tell me, how did you get started collecting all of these sermons?
Larry Martin (09:36):
Uh, I think it, it started Daniel with the fact that I love preaching. You know, I love preachers and I love preaching. Over the years, I’ve, I’ve kept a lot of cassette tapes. Uh, I’ve never had a tape worm, but I think a alma tape worm. And I kept, uh, lots and lots, dozens, hundreds of cassette tapes. And I was preaching revival out in Western Kansas, and I drove out there, and there’s a long expanse of territory that there’s nothing to see or do. And I was thinking about the opportunity to share these sermons with others and felt like God put it in my heart that I should start a website. And I decided on the name Pentecostal Gold because it’s, uh, golden classics. I I don’t put anyone on the website unless they’re at least 70 years old or they’re in heaven. And that’s what I’ve been doing all the years since I started it.
(10:23):
So it’s, it is Golden Pentecostal preaching. I started asking a few of my friends if, if they had tapes they could share. And well, to be honest, I’m drowning in tapes right now. I’ve, the, the Oklahoma District of the Assemblies of God has just given me hundreds and hundreds of tapes. And, uh, at the moment I’ve got, I think 3000 and, uh, 735 sermons on Pentecostal gold. I put one up day before yesterday, I’ll probably put some up this afternoon, almost every day we work a little bit on Pentecostal Gold and, uh, some of the greatest preachers that ever lived. And, and in addition to that, some preachers that no one has ever heard of, but yet they might have been pastoring a small church in a small place, and God used them, and they have something to say. And so I believe every, every message on there is important.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:10):
Who do you feel are some of the, the greatest preachers that you feature on the site?
Larry Martin (11:16):
Well, I, I’ll start by saying some of the best known preachers on the site are like AA Allen and Jack Cole and Amy Simple McPherson, uh, David Wilkerson, Jimmy Swaggart. Those guys are all on the site. But there’s some tremendous preachers that, uh, besides them, uh, AAN Trotter, old time Pentecostal preacher. And as I said to Amy, simple McPherson’s sermons are on there, a great preacher. Uh, I had a pastor for a while in Wichita Falls, Texas named Carl Alcorn. Brother Alcorn was a great preacher. Uh, put his sermons on there, uh, just, just more than I can say. Uh, Pentecostal scholars, uh, Gordon Fee, some of his sermons are on there, just went to be with the Lord Stanley Horton, the, the, uh, probably the leading scholar of the Assemblies of God. And, uh, by the way, Stanley Horton’s parents, and, uh, his mother and his grandparents were at Ausa Street. His mother was a child at Aus Street, so had a long Pentecostal history.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:15):
Yeah. So just going through the website here, it looks like you have some, uh, Steve Hill sermons, uh, great, uh, uh, revivalist from the Brownsville Revival. And, uh, in the last few years, uh, Ms. Jerry Hill has become a friend of mine. She’s a great woman of God. And so if you want to go and learn how to give a proper altar call, you gotta go listen to Steve Hill sermons. You’ve got RW Shaumbach on here, which, uh, uh, Don uh, Donna Shaumbach has become a friend recently, his daughter. And, uh, she’s a, a great woman of God, but you can go and listen to rw and he was a protege of, of aa Allen, and a great preacher.
Larry Martin (12:55):
You don’t have any problems, brother Shamba says, you just need faith in God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:00):
All you need is faith in God. Yeah. And, and you’ve got some, uh, I I know I’ve seen, uh, Reinhardt Bonky sermons on here before. Uh, and, and actually he is a great Pentecostal preacher. His father was a, a Pentecostal pastor in Germany. And when he was young, Reinhard Bonnke his family was persecuted for being Pentecostals. And they used to make fun of them and said that they were a cult and they didn’t know anything. And, and they were strange and weird cuz they spoke in tongues. And so he went as a missionary to Africa, and now the entire continent of Africa has turned into a Pentecostal continent because of the preaching of Reinhard Bonnke.
Larry Martin (13:46):
That’s exactly right. And, and, uh, one of your greatest heroes, uh, Dan the, uh,T.L. Osborn and his wife Daisy, both of those, I have sermons on Pentecostal Gold.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:57):
Dr. Osborn is my hero. You got John Kilpatrick, it looks like. Oh, you got, uh, brother l uh, Lundstrom, uh, uh, Lowell. Lowell Lundstrom a great, uh, traveling revivalist. Yes. He used to travel all over the United States in a bus with his family. And, uh, his daughter became one of my friends a few years ago. And it is just fascinating hearing about all the revivals they did, just traveling from city to city across the United States and, and preaching the gospel.
Larry Martin (14:31):
Yes, I remember hearing him many years ago, he preached the sermon, Daniel, I don’t think I have it on Pentecostal gold, but he preached the sermon and it illustrated it by tearing up a map and, uh, saying, when you’re young and God’s put a call on your life, it’s like a map. And then he says, you reject God’s call, and he tore the map in half and you reject God’s call. And he tore it again. And he said, and finally, you decide to answer God’s call. And there’s such a small place on the map left. And so the message was to young people, listen to God, listen to the call on your life. And those of you that are listening right now, if God has spoken you to, to do something, if he’s called you to any kind of ministry or service, don’t wait. Don’t put it off until the opportunities and the doors close. Do what God’s asked you to do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:17):
You know, there’s two ways to learn. You can learn from your own experiences in your own mistakes, or you can learn from the experiences and mistakes that that others have made that have have come before. And so it’s way easier to learn from a mentor than it is to learn from your own mistakes. And so when we’re talking about the, the move of the Holy Spirit, I, if you want to be mentored by some of these great men and women of God, I’d encourage you to go to pentecostal gold.com, listen to these sermons, and you will learn about how to preach on the power of the Holy Spirit. You will learn about the moving of the Holy Spirit, how to flow in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I think today’s generation has been weak in some of these areas. We, we have lost some of the fervor that some of the, the earlier Pentecostals had.
(16:17):
And, and I think we need to go back and, and listen to them, dig up these roots of revival and, and learn from the, these great men and women of God. And I think if you’ll do that, you will be more on fire and you can take the same message, communicate it in new terms, new language that today’s generation can understand and relate to. But we need the power of the Holy Spirit in our ministries today. We cannot get away from that. Now, Dr. Larry, this week you are actually preaching a revival at a church, uh, in Bixby right near Tulsa, Oklahoma here. And it’s the first Assemblies of God pastored by Pastor David Dillon. Great man of God. And he’s pastored there, uh, for 28 years, 38, 38 years. He’s pastored there. And, uh, just continued to, to preach about Jesus in Bixby all of these years. And it’s really interesting that you’re doing a six night revival that a lot of churches nowadays don’t do six night revivals anymore. They used to, right. I mean, uh, uh, 50 years ago you would go six nights and then you might go another two or three weeks in revival meetings. But tell, tell me a testimony or something that happened this week as you’ve been preaching there in Bixie. Well,
Larry Martin (17:42):
We, we’ve been enjoying ourselves. I’ve, I’ve preached here in Bixby many times and, and by the way, be before I say that, let me say it’s good to be here with you in your home, in your studio, Daniel. We’ve done this podcast before, but we had to do it from my home in Duncan and yours here. So it’s good to be with you here in Tulsa. But, uh, out at Bixby, uh, Sunday night, we had a couple of young people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And Monday night, a lady received the baptism Holy Spirit. So God is moving God’s alive in Bixby, Oklahoma as he is certainly alive where you are.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:14):
Yeah, I saw on, on Facebook you said a couple people were filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes. And so that is just so wonderful to hear that, that even now people are, are being filled with the Holy Spirit and, and I think we all need the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Uh, we need to, to receive the Holy Spirit and be filled and refilled over and over again. Uh, and, and, uh, we, we we need the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Larry Martin (18:38):
Yes, we do. And and you mentioned earlier the power of the Holy Spirit, and it’s the, the power of preaching. One, one of the reasons that I, I love Pentecostal Gold and I work so hard on it, is because I, I believe in the value of preaching. It seems to me that we’re living in a time in a lot of churches have discounted the value of preaching, and they’ve gone with more ideas, dialogue, and different things. But it is the power of the preaching of the gospel that brings the loss to Christ. And, uh, especially when it’s anointed by the Holy Spirit’s, uh, great power and strength. And so we believe in preaching.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:15):
Amen. Well, tell me one of your favorite sermons. What, what are some of the, the favorite things that you like to talk about?
Larry Martin (19:22):
Uh, you’re talking about on Pentecostal Gold?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:24):
Well, no, uh, of your personal sermons that if you’re preaching a revival and you wanna stir people up, well, what do you say to them? Well, there’s
Larry Martin (19:32):
Better preaching on Pentecostal gold <laugh> than probably my sermons Daniel. But, uh, one, one of the, uh, uh, favorite sermons of mine lately is I’ve been preaching, it is no secret what God can do. The Bible says that the secret things belong to the Lord. So there are some things that we don’t know, but what we do know is that Jesus saves and that Jesus heals and that Jesus delivers. And that is no secret because he does it so that all the world can see. And I love preaching on that. I, I like to preach about the coming of Christ and, and, uh, preach a great deal on the baptism Holy Spirit. And when I used to teach it at, uh, Brownsville Revival School of Ministry, they called me Dr. Holy Ghost because I put such emphasis on him and his power.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:20):
Talk to me a about the Holy Spirit and how you lead people into being filled with the Holy Spirit. Give, gimme a little sermon,
Larry Martin (20:29):
A little sermon on, uh,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:31):
Like if someone’s listening Uhhuh <affirmative> and they’ve never been filled with the Holy Spirit, what would you say to them?
Larry Martin (20:37):
Well, the, the first thing I would say is you have to have a desire. You have to have a hunger. You have to understand that God wants you to have the baptism, holy Spirit. A lot of people think, well, that’s for someone else. I’m not sure it’s for me. But the truth is, God wants every believer to receive the baptism. Holy Spirit, he said in Acts chapter two, it was for everyone. It’s for those that were as far off, for as many as the Lord should call. So you, you understand that God wants you to receive. And when you understand that, then you have a hunger. Really, if you’re a believer of any kind, you want more of God and you have a hunger for God, and then all you have to do is ask and receive. I used to believe growing up in Pentecostal church that people had to Terry for the Holy Ghost, you had to wait.
(21:18):
Well, they only carried in the upper room because the Holy Spirit had not been given yet. But he’s been given to you. And if you wanna receive, if you want the baptism, the Holy Spirit, you can receive right here today. I, I give people, uh, some practical instruction. Not everyone receives the baptism, the Holy Spirit in the same way. Sometimes he’ll come on, people like just a, a river flowing out of your belly. As the Jesus said, sometimes people, uh, their tongue gets thick. It’s hard for ’em to talk, but just practical things on receiving. And, uh, by the grace of God, we’ve seen thousands of people receive the baptism. Holy Spirit over these many years,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:55):
One of my favorite memories was in Ethiopia. We were in a city called Lalo Kele, uh, with, uh, brother Per Aus in Joshua campaign there. And on the, the last night, we had about 55,000 people. And you know, each night it gets bigger. So the first day you might have 10,000, and then it doubles, and then it doubles again. Well, by the, by the ending, we had about 55,000 people. And I had announced to the people that it was Holy Spirit Day and all, it’s on a Sunday. So all the churches, they came dressed up in their beautiful gowns, many different colors. Each church had a different color represented, and everyone was shouting and, and praising God. And we’d invited an Assembly of God, pastor from ATIs Ababa to come out. And I asked him to share his testimony of how he was filled with the Holy Spirit.
(22:49):
And then I shared for a little bit on the Holy Spirit, and then we prayed for everyone to be filled, and then people began speaking in tongues. And it was like a mighty rushing wind. The, the, the, the sound of it was this massive roar. Imagine 55,000 people all receiving their prayer language at the same time and beginning to pray in other tongues. And everyone just began to pray in the Holy Spirit. And it was just one of the, the greatest e experiences that I’ve ever had as a minister to see that many people be filled with the Holy Spirit. And we had so many miracles that day, so many people saved. It was amazing. When you give a place for the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit shows up and he does amazing things.
Larry Martin (23:41):
A a as you described that, Daniel, it’s impossible for people who were not there to know what that feels like. I mean, I’ve been on that field and seen God do a similar thing. And it is, it is just so awesome. It’s unbelievable the power that you feel and the anointing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:58):
It’s like on the day of, of Pentecost. Yes. On the day of Pentecost, is that a, a mighty rushing wind went through the upper room, tongues of fire appeared above their heads. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak in tongues. And, and then Peter goes out and preaches and 3000 people get saved. And, and really ultimately that’s the purpose for the Holy Spirit. That’s right. The Holy Spirit comes to give us power to be witnesses. And, and so if, if you’re an evangelist, you will be a more effective evangelist with the Holy Spirit than you will be without the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit. It’s almost helpless. You. There’s nothing hopeless. You, there’s nothing you are gonna be able to do. You can knock people’s heads over and over again with, with, uh, platitudes and, and, and good preaching points. But really, it’s the Holy Spirit that draws people to God. That’s, and so we need the Holy Spirit
Larry Martin (24:53):
That’s clearly taught in the Word of God. And you know, I’d go further, Daniel, to say, not only as evangelist I would, I wouldn’t wanna be a mechanic without the Holy Spirit. I I wouldn’t wanna be a carpenter without the Holy Spirit. We need him and every believer, every person listen to this podcast needs the baptism, the Holy Spirit, to give them the power that they need to be witnesses for Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:13):
Alright, so if you want to know more about the power of the Holy Spirit, go to pentecostal gold.com and listen to some of the great Pentecostal sermons of great men and women of God who, who have been close to the Holy Spirit. And let’s finish Dr. Larry with a prayer. Could you just pray for everyone listening to have a fresh touch of the Holy Spirit right now?
Larry Martin (25:37):
Hallelujah. Heavenly Father, we thank you today for this podcast, the opportunity to speak to these people who are listening to us. You made a promise in the word Jesus said he would send another comforter that would abide with us forever. He said he was the spirit of truth. Lord, we pray for that spirit now to come on every listener. We pray that anyone that’s not been baptized in the Holy Spirit could just open their heart and receive from you today, even while we’re speaking, Lord, without any human element, just come Holy Spirit and feel these believers, those Lord that are dry and need a refreshing, I pray, holy Spirit, come. Come and anointed and touch, set these people on fire. Lord, those that are in your work and evangelism, pastoral ministry. Anyway, Lord, I pray the Holy Spirit, the helper, the comforter would come along beside them, encourage them in what they’re doing today. We thank you for it all because it’s in Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:37):
Amen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (26:40):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:42):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (29:02):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Mikel French | To Russia With Love
Mikel French is an evangelist who loves going to Russia to preach the Gospel. Russia is the largest country on planet earth expanding over 6.5 million square miles and a population of 141,903,979. There are 158,000 cities, towns and villages and only 4,000 Evangelical churches in the entire nation. On today’s Evangelism Podcast we talk about what God is doing in the great nation of Russia.
Website: https://mikelfrench.com/
Power Points from Mikel French
- You must connect with the heart. If you capture the heart, the mind will follow.
- To connect with the heart preach the power of the cross.
- Use stories to connect to the hearts of the people.
- Everyone wants to know who they are, where they came from, and where they are going. The bible answers all three.
- Be honest with people and see in them what God sees in them.
- Make it your constant challenge to speak uplifting words into everyone you meet.
- Trust the Word, pray the scriptures.
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Mikel French is an evangelist who loves going to Russia to preach the gospel. Russia is the largest country on planet earth, expanding over 6.5 million square miles, and it has a population of over 141 million people. There are 158,000 cities, towns and villages in Russia, and only about 4,000 evangelical churches in the entire nation. On today’s evangelism podcast, we talk about what God is doing in the great nation of Russia.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:38):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:45):
Everyone who calls in the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:50):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:14):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. Have a very special guest with me, Mikel French. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast. Well,
Mikel French (01:26):
It’s great to be here Daniel. Thank you
Evangelist Daniel King (01:28):
Brother Mikel is a tremendous man of God and he has a great love for the nation of Russia. And for many years he has been going to Russia preaching the gospel, telling people about Jesus. Brother Mikel, could you tell me how did you first go to the nation of Russia?
Mikel French (01:50):
Um, I first went because of the invitation of Rob Hoskins. Um, I heard about what God was doing, especially through Billy Joe Doherty and what victory was doing in those days and enjoyed hearing the testimonies. And then, uh, Rob Hoskins invited me to go to Russia and for about 18 months I turned him down. And uh, then one day now
Evangelist Daniel King (02:13):
Rob Hoskins, he is the director of One Hope. Yes. And they have an absolutely tremendous ministry, especially ministering to children and youth all over the world distributing literature. Yes. I just was in a conversation a few days ago Yes. With Rob Hoskins. Was was on the Zoom call and I’m so inspired by his vision and his strategic thinking. Yes. And so it sounds like he was str strategic in inviting you to go to Russia.
Mikel French (02:41):
Yeah, well he was, it’s kind of strange because I met him in California. He was a youth pastor and I had no idea of his family’s influence around the world. His father’s one of the greatest missionaries in history and also his family, uh, from his wife, parents and relatives, extraordinary relationships. And Rob, when he heard me speak in a church, he said, you know, you could do this in stadiums. And I went, well, no, I’m happy being a revivalist. I knew I was an evangelist cuz I led people to Christ. But then when he started inviting me to go to speak in the schools of Russia, and then one day I, he invited me to go to Siberia and I said, um, I’m thank you. I can I pray. And he said, would you give God a chance? And without going through the whole story miraculously commitments that I needed to keep graciously changed. Uh, when I shared with people, they, every one of them said, we we’re in agreement that you need to go to Russia. And it, it transformed my life.
Evangelist Daniel King (03:47):
What year was that, that you first went to Russia? I
Mikel French (03:49):
First went to Russia in March of 1992.
Evangelist Daniel King (03:52):
Wow. So let’s talk a little bit about Russia. I have your website pulled up here, Michael french.com, and it says that Russia is the largest country on planet earth. It expands 6.5 million miles as a population of 141 million people. So a huge population. There’s 158,000 cities, towns and villages and only 1600 evangelical churches in the entire nation. So it sounds like there are a lot of people that need Jesus in Russia.
Mikel French (04:26):
Yes. And and also we need to update that when I started in Russia, there were 61 churches that we were in relationship with. Today we have 4,600 churches. Wow. And, um, and then many others that are closely related to us. But the church crossed Russia over the last few years has been exploding in supernatural growth.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:51):
And so you have some statistics here about Russia and, and these are very dire says someone commits suicide every 10 minutes, every 40 minutes a woman is murdered by her husband. Thousands of children each year are murdered by their own parents. I didn’t, I didn’t know this, but in a land where you had atheism that dominated for so many years, uh, I, I remember, uh, when Russia first opened back up, I was just a young teenager and Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty was doing Crusades Yes. In St. Petersburg, Russia. And every month for 18 months, I think he, he went and did a crusade in the Olympic stadium there in St. Petersburg. Yes. And so I was 14 years old, I got to go and I got to preach the gospel on the steps of what had been the Museum of Atheism there in St. Petersburg.
(05:47):
And I remember the, the phenomenal openness of the people because when Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty gave the altar call, people ran from the back of the stadium to the front in order to give their lives to Jesus. Yes. It was a phenomenal moment in history. Yes. And then after the initial excitement, a lot of people from here in the United States, they stopped going to Russia, but you never stopped. Why did you keep going? Why, why did God put it on your heart so much to continue working with the churches and encouraging the churches in, in the former Soviet Union? I
Mikel French (06:23):
Went through a transformation. By 1995, I was ready to quit. I had wonderful pictures. The altar calls cities of 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 people coming to Christ. It was extraordinary. But the local church was so anemic, so small, so young, uh, and at times would almost fight against these new believers coming to Christ. And in 1995, I met a young man, 26 years of age, Edward Grava Vinco, and he was planting a church. Uh, when I use the word planting, what I’m realizing is a lot of people don’t realize that means starting a church. Um, he was starting a church in perm Russia, but he already had 800. He’d already planted th 30 churches. And out of that, that week of meetings, we saw many people come to Christ, but nearly half of them, 90 days later were in church. And since I came out of a home where my father was a pastor, I was a revivalist.
(07:27):
I’ve always believed that you want a church to help people. You, you can’t be a disciple without that vehicle to accomplish that. And when I began to work with Edward, I began to see the vehicle not only for people to pray a sinner’s prayer and to invite Christ into their lives. And when I began to work with Edward, it changed everything. Now since then, we’ve done other things in other parts of the world, but we keep going back to Russia. And with it we’ve been able to establish pastor schools, young adult conferences because we want people growing in the power of the Lord.
Evangelist Daniel King (08:04):
Tell me some of the miracle stories of what you’ve seen God do in Russia over the years.
Mikel French (08:09):
Let, let, let me tell you the first story, that there are so many things that are extraordinary. But one of the first stories in my life, I I was in the city of your Coots in, in, and anyone who knows anything about the Book of Hope, that means you’re in schools. And so we’re in schools and, uh, we had about 50 Americans there. And that morning I went downstairs and because I was the speaker, I didn’t have to go to the schools. But I went down every day and I would just pick out one of the teams and I would go with them and usually not even speak, just observe and pray for them. And that morning when I got into the, the, the taxi <laugh>, the, these people, they were just so excited, oh, brother Michael, please, we we’re so scared to death, will you, you please do the presentation for us today.
(08:58):
And the other part of it was my interpreter, which I did not know until later, she was the number one star pupil from that school. I was going to 16 year olds, 200 of them gifted children who spoke at least three and four, five languages. Wow. And so I go and I speak and, and when I, when I speak up, they, they’re very receptive. Most of them had never seen an American in nine March of 1992. And um, uh, when I gave the invitation, almost every hand went up. And then over on the right, there were some young men who were not really happy with me. They were heckling and they were telling everyone to put their hands down, sticking their thumbs up in the air. And, and I, I, to be honest, it made me nervous. And I, I turned to the interpreter and I said, ask everyone who wants to receive Christ to stand up. And so she did. And nobody stood up. Have you ever gone from excitement to total like you’ve lost everything? And I, I remember when I was listening and, and watching that day, the crowd, I turned to the interpreter again. And I said, now you have to remember, I did not know that she went to that school. I did not know any of the history. And I said to her, ask one more time, is there anyone here who wants to stand up for Christ? And she looked at me and said, do I have to
Evangelist Daniel King (10:24):
<laugh> <laugh>?
Mikel French (10:26):
You’re all confidence is leaving your body quickly? And uh, I said, yes. She said, they’re embarrassed. Just answer questions about America. And I said, if no one stands up, we’ll do that. And I said, so she turned in, in Russian, invited them to stand in, in the very back row on the aisle there was a young man and he, he was making noises like almost like he was a troublemaker. And he went, and I, I looked and I thought, Lord, get. And all of a sudden he stood up and he stood up almost kind of like slouched. And, and over on the right, they started heckling him. And the louder they heckled, the taller he got,
Evangelist Daniel King (11:09):
He was a troublemaker. He’s like, I’m going to stand up for Jesus whether they like it or not.
Mikel French (11:14):
And I, and I turned to look at this group of people, and she may have been standing the whole time, but she was so short, I didn’t even realize she was standing right in front of the troublemakers was a girl. And she was standing and she was very young and very short. And now she’s tip jumping up and down and on her tip toes because she wants me to realize she’s standing. And then on the front row, two girls stood up and then the entire front row stood up. And the second it was like they were doing the wave till every kid in that place was standing with those, those boys on the right. Wow. And, and I turned and the interpreter was crying. And she says, I’ve never seen such courage. She says, is Jesus real? And she said, I want to accept him also, all because of the courage of one person standing in the back.
(12:09):
Russians. What what you have to learn about Russians is if you argue with them, they won’t ever let you win. Even if you win. I, I was trained in philosophy. I know how to stand in front of a crowd and and present the case for, for God, for the New Testament, for the cross. But what I’ve learned is touch a Russian’s heart and they’ll die for you. They’ll, they’ll do. And and what I learned was this, that day was so profound in the fact that one of the teachers said to me, you keep arguing with the Russian mind and you won’t ever win cuz they won’t admit it. They said, but if you’ll capture the heart, this one of the teachers said, the mind will follow. And that is the miracle that that connected me was a again and again. The thing that has happened to me in Russia is watching the courage of the people. When people there decide they’re gonna stand, they stand.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:10):
How do you connect with people’s hearts? What’s the message? What, what are you saying that helps you to really connect with the heart of people?
Mikel French (13:20):
There there are two things. Number one, you can connect with the heart, but if the substance of content is not there, then what will happen is something emotional. So what I do is that first of all, I preach the power of the cross. I want people to understand what Jesus Christ did upon the cross and that he’s torn down the walls that have divided us and that he holds the keys of death hell in the grave and can forgive us of our sins. Make that very clear. But then secondly, um, uh, one of the stories that happened in my second trip to Russia, um, there was a lot of resistance from the mayor, the schools and everything. And, and God performed a miracle that made the mayor literally had to host us. And we go in the first school and I get up and, and I’m teaching and speaking and, and, uh, when it was over, uh, what I’d asked was, everybody wants to know who they are, where they’ve come from and where they’re going.
(14:20):
And Jesus Christ answers those questions. Oh, when it’s over. I was told that if I had any more American philosophy, I’d be thrown out of the city. <laugh> next class, next, the next, the next cla the next school. Um, one of the ladies on the trip said, um, I have a word from God is all right if I give it at the next school assembly. And I’m going, well, I’m getting this thrown out of the city. And she stood up and she said, you know, I have a little girl and I bet your parents are just like my parents. They want you healthy. I have a garden cuz I want my kids to get the nutrients they need. And then she held up the Book of Hope and she said, in this book, are the nutrients of life, just as your parents want you strong God the Father wants you strong. When I heard her story and then she led her daughter to the Lord, I have told the story of my son and leading him to Christ. Now with that, that’s all within the context of the word and the truth. But what I have found is, as with everyone, stories connect the heart. And and most evangelists, those of you who are listening to me today, for the most part, I would almost preach with no stories. I’m a principle-based person.
Evangelist Daniel King (15:42):
12 steps to success.
Mikel French (15:43):
Yes. 12 steps. This is what the Bible says. Principles are the foundation of relationship and and out of it. I believe that’s how you overcome through the power of the word of God. Do you understand it? But I’ve also learned that people, many are not like me. They, they need a story to connect to something they can see, something they can hold onto.
Evangelist Daniel King (16:07):
So one of the questions I’ve really been wanting to ask you, you’ve been in ministry for for many years and I’m still very young in ministry and a lot of the people listening are just starting out in the ministry that God has for them. Tell me a couple of stories that would help us as young people in ministry. What have you learned over the, these course of, of years of serving the Lord that would really help a young minister?
Mikel French (16:36):
The first thing I want to say, because I want to say it to you, um, the most important thing is understanding the prophet prophetic. Now, when I say that, that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But when I look at what the Bible talks about in the book of Corinthians to exhort, to comfort, to edify, I put it in modern English terms to lift up, to build up, to cheer up. That when you’re able to speak to people out of a heart of love, now I hope you will receive Daniel what I’m getting ready to say. You’re a champion of the most high God. And I don’t say that because I’m trying to make you feel better. It’s because you are. I’ve watched you, I’ve watched what God is doing in you and through you. And one of the most important things to me is be honest with people.
(17:26):
But the second thing is see in them what God sees in them. Every person out there, if you hear me speak, you’re gonna hear this phrase. This is my, uh, tagline if you want to put it that way. I say it every time I speak. You are beautiful. I see Jesus in you. Your actions almost always follow what you see, whether it’s in the natural world or in the unseen world with your words. Can you begin to see how to lift up, how to build up, how to cheer up? What I have found is we live in a world that can tell you you’re nothing. You’re nobody. Daniel. You probably know this better than I do. I no longer have to convince people they’re going to hell. You know, when I started in ministry, I would have these messages and philosophy and, and hell is real.
(18:20):
Uh, almost every person you talk, you can walk up to the street and go, if heaven is real, if hell is real, where are you going? They’ll go, oh, I’m going to hell. It’s reality. But can you speak, it is my constant challenge to speak words into every person I meet. I believe words change the atmosphere. I believe with the power of words, you release the prophetic of the future in people’s lives. I believe the very gifting of God’s ability to speak God’s ability. I don’t even know if that’s the correct way I wanna say it. Uh, God has the ability to speak and instantly things are created. And when he breathed into us the breath of life and those of you who are listening inside of you is the breath, the seed, the ability to transform a person and an an entire grouping of people, a nation.
(19:14):
And we have the ability to shake nations and to take cities for God through the power of our words. And I want every person to learn that, learn that ability to speak without fear and that watching the power of God. And, and, and those of you who are watching, pray for Daniel. He’s an extraordinary man of God. Uh, if I was younger, I would be jealous. How much God, I don’t know of anybody who works harder than this man. And I bless him. I bless him in the name of Jesus. I’m thrilled that I get to be here talking to you with him. I, uh, the association, I’ve watched what you’ve done. Um, I know it’s not good to be proud, but I’m proud of you in a spiritually godly way for what you’re doing. But that’s also what I’d recommend, learn to live a life that exhorts that blesses and opens up people to bless people, will not only shock them in some ways, blessing people creates trouble cuz they don’t know what to do with it.
Evangelist Daniel King (20:18):
Well, thank you so much for your kind words. What other advice would you give to young ministers?
Mikel French (20:25):
Um, trust the word. When you pray, there’s old pictures of old men with the Bible open and you see them praying the word. When you’re praying, pray the word. Uh, make sure you have a list of scriptures that you pray over yourself every day. I can give you advice on, on how to give an al alter call, how to give an invitation. But to be honest with you, what I do and how I do it is almost a, the DNA of what God put inside of me. But I can teach you how to open your Bible and and, and be over it and, and in the word and prayer and watch the power of God begin to lift you up in ways you never thought possible. When, when you understand that, that, that to me as I’ve watched through the years is the difference. Um,
(21:25):
Inspiration is extraordinary, but the discipline and discipleship of your life and the word, your life in prayer, uh, and, and, and welcome God, the Holy Spirit. Uh, uh, the one thing Russia taught me, um, when I went to Russia, um, I woke up early like 4:00 AM every morning. And in those days there was nothing on TV to watch. Although in the early days, somehow Trinity Broadcasting network had like two hours in the morning. But there was Russian over the top of it, <laugh>. And, and there was nothing to do but pray. And this is what would happen in the early days, and it was dysfunctional. A lot has changed in Russia. Moscow is a one of the most beautiful cities in the world. St. Petersburg is one of the most 10 beautiful cities in the world. And we must pray for the believers there because the number one thing they are asking that the gospel not be stopped. And, and you, you’ve, I’ve watched an entire nation change in so many wonderful ways and, and right now the hurt and the pain that we’re observing. But the one thing was seven o’clock every morning there would be a knock on my door. And when the knock on my door came, it would be from an interpreter, a liter. And they would tell me everything that had gone wrong in the night.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:50):
Oh no.
Mikel French (22:51):
Everything, it was like all nightmare. Well,
Evangelist Daniel King (22:53):
Good morning to you two <laugh>.
Mikel French (22:55):
And, and, and yet I’d already been in the word in prayer for three hours.
Evangelist Daniel King (23:00):
Mm.
Mikel French (23:01):
And I never saw it once worth, at the end of the day, everything was accomplished by the power of God’s grace. Overwhelming. And that is the beauty of the power of knowing God.
Evangelist Daniel King (23:14):
Wow. That’s awesome. Well, brother Michael, I wanna say thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If you’re listening and you have a heart for Russia and you want to help the churches of Russia, you want to preach the gospel in Russia, I encourage you to support the ministry of Michael French. Thank you. And to help him with what he’s doing in the nation of Russia. And what is your, your website if someone wants to find out more about you or get in contact with you?
Mikel French (23:43):
The, the key to finding me is this word Mikel. My mother did this to me, and I’m thankful you spell Mikel. M i k e l. Now if you put Mikell French, uh, it’s Mikel french.com. It’s Mikel french.org. It’s MiKel French ministries.com. But the key people will say, oh, I tried to find you. If you spell Michael the normal English way, you won’t find me. But M i k e l will find
Evangelist Daniel King (24:12):
Me for a long time I thought you were Miguel or I I didn’t know who you were. And everyone was talking about MiKel. I said, who, who is this Mikel you’re talking about? I’m like, oh, it’s you <laugh>. So yeah. So I’d encourage you go to Mikel French m i k e l french.com. Yeah. And find out more about the ministry. You have brought revival all over the world, not just Russia. You also preach at churches all over the United States and, and other parts of the world. And, and you re bring revival everywhere you go, you help people get closer to God. Yes. And so I’d encourage you to, to reach out, find out more about this tremendous ministry.
Mikel French (24:49):
Thank you. Thank you. It’s a privilege.
Evangelism Podcast Host (24:51):
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Evangelist Daniel King (25:54):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (27:15):
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