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Reckless Love | Shane Graham

Today on the Evangelism Podcast, we are honored to welcome a man whose life and ministry were born out of a powerful encounter with the reckless love of God. Over a decade ago, Shane Graham and his wife Susan experienced the transforming grace of Jesus in the middle of brokenness and searching, and that encounter ignited a calling that has taken them into motels, streets, and forgotten corners of their cities to bring hope where it’s needed most. As founders of Reckless Love Outreach, Shane carries a burning passion to be the hands and feet of Jesus, serving with surrendered hearts and demonstrating God’s love in practical, powerful ways. Get ready for a conversation that will stir your faith, challenge your comfort zone, and inspire you to step into the harvest fields right where you are.

Learn more about Shane Graham: https://www.recklessloveoutreach.com/ 

Transcript:

Evangelist Daniel King (00:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Shane Graham from Reckless Love. Thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast.

Shane Graham (00:15):
Oh, thanks for having me, Daniel. It’s an honor.

Evangelist Daniel King (00:17):
All right. Let’s start out with your testimony. The name of your ministry is Reckless Love, and you have encountered God’s love in a powerful way in your life. What did Jesus do for you?

Shane Graham (00:30):
Well, I didn’t really grow up in a Christian home or anything like that. I guess my understanding of Christianity would have been kind of a Christure, Christmas and Easter. And both my brother and my dad at one point got sober in AA, so that was kind of my understanding of God. I grew up in an area that was kind of more of a Baptist understanding of things or culturally Baptist. So I knew that Jesus was out there and that you needed a relationship with him, but I didn’t see too much a reflection of that in my area. So I got into drugs when I was really young, around 12 or so. And it progressed pretty fast into high school. And then I did go into the military for a few years, but whenever I was in towards the end of my career, drugs kind of got ahold of me.

(01:26):
And while I was discharged under honorable conditions, as a result of addictions, I was separated from the military. And then after that, just kind of went downhill. I would go to rehabs and I would go to jail and things like that, got locked up, started getting in trouble for it. And when I would go to jail, they would have preachers come in and I would go down there and I would listen to them. And I liked it, but it never really touched my heart. And a lot of times I just went because it was the only way I could get out of myself. But I read the Bible a bunch because oftentimes it was the only book that was available to read and I liked to read. So I had all of that and I wanted to do different, but each time I’d get out of jail, I’d go back and to the same people, places and things and end up doing that.

(02:17):
During that process, I ended up getting married to somebody that was also in the addictive lifestyle. We both met in that and we started running together, still the same way, lots of addiction and betrayal and in and out of jail. And that all culminated with … I was on my fourth felony drug charge and I violated my parole and went to a place in South Louisiana. And I did much of the same that I’d always done. I would grab spiritual books and would read the Bible. And I wanted it out and I thought that I was missing something maybe and I wasn’t working steps correctly or I couldn’t really, really get it. I didn’t really want to do what I was doing, but I had always done it and I was just kind of a slave to that lifestyle. So I was in this place and I was doing what I’d always done, trying to find to work and things like that, and reading the Bible and doing like ANNA.

(03:26):
And I just couldn’t figure out what it was. I didn’t want to do what I was doing anymore, but I didn’t really know how to change. I knew that God was the answer. They talked about that in various different places. And I knew that I needed God, but I didn’t know how to get there. I thought I had to work a bunch of steps or I had to do these things to reach that. I’d never had a really good … Maybe I’d never really had the gospel presented to me in a way that I can remember that I really understood it. So I began to read the Bible and I was reading into Proverbs and I was reading stuff and I was just … I really wanted something different. Drugs would come through this facility and I would end up doing them, but each time I’d feel a little bit worse than before and just really started thinking, “I really need to change.” And then as I was reading through it, I began to think about God and I was not sure how that worked.

(04:35):
I didn’t know if I needed to … I was asking Jesus in my heart, I was like, “Jesus, forgive me my sins.” I didn’t know if I needed to repeat all of them. And at that point I’d had so many, I had no idea, but I had kind of an understanding and I was trying. And then one day I said, “You know what, God, if you want my life, you take it. ” And in that moment, he met me right where I was. I went out on a pavilion type and I remember looking out and I’d heard a lot of voices in my head because I was on a lot of drugs, so I was crazy and that. And I just remember all those voices stopped and there was just one. And I remember hearing that voice say, “What do you see out there?” And I said, “Well, I see a telephone pole and no, no, no, no, no.

(05:23):
What do you see out there?” I said, “Well, I see a telephone pole. It’s got numbers on it. ” And then it goes, “No, no, no. What do you see out there?” And I looked up at the top of it and I said, “I see a cross. I saw across the top.” And he said, “Yeah, you got it. ” And in that moment, he slammed me with the Holy Spirit. I heard it in my head to speak in tongues. I didn’t do that at that time, but I knew the empowerment was there. And I just began to walk around that facility and just had the most euphoric feeling. I knew I was forgiven and I knew instinctively, because this guy came up and he was like, “Dude, what are you on? ” And I was like, “Nothing.” And I remember that scripture out of Acts where he asked him, “Are these guys drunk?” And he said, “They’re not drunk as you suppose.” And I remember that scripture and knew I was having this kind of encounter that those guys and acts had.

(06:18):
So it was just kind of in all of that, wandering around. Then all of a sudden I had a headset and a MP3 player and I switched it with somebody else and it had a AMFM and I tuned it in and it would only tune to one station. And on that station, I heard a voice and I knew it was God the Father and gave me the gospel from Genesis to Jesus and told me two things. He said, “Come boldly to my throne and ask for your heart’s desire.” And the second one was to help my children trapped in sin.

Evangelist Daniel King (06:52):
What a tremendous testimony. And now you’re taking God’s reckless love to other people and God’s put you in a place where you’re helping to set people free from addiction, many of the same things that you struggled with, now you’re able to help others. Tell me a little bit about that and do you have any testimonies of what God is doing to set people free from addiction?

Shane Graham (07:17):
Sure. Well, professionally, I work in the mental health arena and I do what’s called peer recovery support and case management. So I work with a lot of people that are in sober living. Many of them, well, all of them would have been inaddiction coming out of it. They’re coming out of incarceration or they’re coming from the streets to these places to housing, try to get things together. And in that, whenever I do an introduction with them, the places that I’m employed with are, I’m able to share the gospel, I’m able to share my story and share encouragement and share some of the things or pitfalls that I had along the way, this side of the cross, and help them with resources and things like that. But also, we go to the motels, some of the more rugged rotels, the drug motels in Tulsa in some of the batter areas, and we outreach with food and groceries, and then from that, we present the gospel and pray for people, and then give them opportunity to give the opportunity to follow up with them.

Evangelist Daniel King (08:35):
Yeah. I’ve done some ministry at some of those hotels here in Tulsa, and people can get a hotel room super cheap, and sometimes they knock on the door and they open it, and you can smell all the drugs and everything they’ve been smoking just come out, and they’re just out of it. But you’re going there, you’re ministering to people. So if someone is struggling with addiction to drugs, or alcohol, or some other area in their lives, what are some of the keys to helping people to overcome the addiction? What do you say to them?

Shane Graham (09:11):
Wow. I think that the gospel is the answer. There’s programs that are available, that are good, what I would call good soil or grounds, or a good place where somebody can grow and develop theirself in the faith. And maybe, and even through my own story of addiction of a place that wasn’t even a God place, I found God, but I think that the gospel, that we’re lost without him, that we have to have him. But whenever I was introduced him, I had an understanding. I knew if there was a hell, I was probably going to it, but the encounter that I had, I never had anybody communicate to me just really how much he loves me and how much the contrast was between being eternally separated and being a son or a daughter in Christ. I think that identity is the biggest thing with helping people too, but just presence, just being there and following up with somebody, because these are the most broken and the most lost people, most people don’t want to touch them or be involved with them or do the dirty work of following up with them with resources.

(10:41):
So we have people that we get IDs for, and this is the … And we had people break down in tears going that they have an ID, they have an identity, and they can begin to do this. So speaking life into not necessarily who they are, because they all know that they’re addicted and broken, but they’re talking to them about their potential and their identity in Christ and how much God loves them, that’s transformational. And then the practical stuff is also helpful too, and developing those resources is really what I think.

Evangelist Daniel King (11:22):
Well, God’s given you a tremendous ministry. It’s so important to help people get free from addiction. And I think one of the most powerful aspects of your ministry is your personal testimony. God has taken you from being addicted, being incarcerated, to now you walk in freedom and God’s hand is on you. Now, you’ve also been going to downtown Tulsa and preaching the gospel. You’ve got a little sound system in your car. You go set it up. Tell me what you’ve experienced going downtown.

Shane Graham (11:57):
Well, that’s been a journey for me. I’m not … It’s part of my identity in God, but before that, very, very shy, quiet, very, very much introverted. So going into those settings, whenever God asked me to do it the first time, I was absolutely terrified, but did it anyway. And I found that even down there at the bars and things, some people can be … It’s more, they’re not maybe necessarily ready for change, and some of them can be aggressive, but a lot of people are encouraging as well and helpful. So I just got the little sound system online and stepped out in faith and got off work one day and got on a corner and just palm sweating and just a little message just-

Evangelist Daniel King (13:00):
All right. Let’s pretend that you’re in downtown Tulsa.

Shane Graham (13:04):
Okay.

Evangelist Daniel King (13:05):
You’re standing right out in front of a bar, you’re on a corner, there’s people walking by, you have your sound system, and you’re preaching. They’re walking by, you only have a minute or two minutes for them to hear the message. I want you to pretend like you’re preaching and give us what you’re going to say to those people.

Shane Graham (13:25):
That’s kind of on the spot because I usually … I don’t know. I usually have help with my phone and I have a couple of little short messages prepared off that and I read off of that.

Evangelist Daniel King (13:37):
So you’re just reading your message off your phone?

Shane Graham (13:39):
Yeah. A lot of times.

Evangelist Daniel King (13:40):
And what are some of the contents of the message? What do you say?

Shane Graham (13:44):
Yeah. Most of them would be that … I used to think that maybe I could … There’d always be a later time that maybe that I could get saved or do that or that I would change tomorrow or that tomorrow would be a better day.

Evangelist Daniel King (14:06):
There’s no time like right now, so go ahead. Pull out your phone. Let’s get one of these messages. Let’s queue it up. I didn’t give them any warning. We’re just here. We’re having fun and I want to hear one of these messages that God has given you that you preach out there on the street. And I think it’s really interesting that you’re reading from your phone because sometimes people are nervous. They get out in front of others. They don’t know what to say, but it’s easy enough that if you just have a little script that can give you the boldness to get started and preach the gospel, and God can use anything that you’re willing to give him. And so even by using a little script, reading it off, preaching through the microphone, God can even use that. All right. You got one queued up?

(14:56):
All right. Give it to us. Here we go.

Shane Graham (14:58):
There was a time I thought I was in control, that I could make my own way, live how I wanted, and deal with God later. But later almost never comes. Sin deceives us into thinking we’re fine, while it’s quietly cutting us off from the very God who gives us breath. I learned the hard truth. Sin doesn’t just break your life. It separates you from God forever. That’s what hell really is, eternal separation from the presence and goodness of God. It’s not just fire and torment, it’s the tragic reality of being cut off from the one who loves you most, but God didn’t want that for me or for you. That’s why Jesus came. He took my punishment on the cross so I could receive mercy. He gave me his life so I could have eternal life. When I finally repented, when I turned from my sin and trusted him, the guilt lifted and peace flooded in.

(15:44):
I was no longer running from God. I was walking with him. Repentance isn’t about religion, it’s about relationship restored. Without it, we face eternal loss, but with it, we gain eternal life. That’s the gospel. Truth that warns us, grace that saves us, repentance that brings us back to God, redemption that secures us forever. If you know in your heart that you’re far from God, you don’t have to stay there. He’s reaching for you right now. Whether you are, wherever you are, pray, Jesus, I believe you died for me. I turned for my sin and I turn to you. Forgive me, save me and fill me with your spirit. When you do, he promised to give you a new life, not just here, but for eternity.

Evangelist Daniel King (16:22):
Wow, Shane. That is powerful. Amen. And I know that when you’re out there on the street, some people probably make fun of you, some people might yell at you, but those words are powerful and I know that they have an impact on people’s lives. All right. You have written a book. It’s called Reckless Love and it’s on Amazon. If you’re interested in the book, you can go to Amazon and find out about it. And you also have a website. If someone wants to connect with you, support your ministry, be a part of what you’re doing or pray for you. How can they find more about you? What’s your website?

Shane Graham (16:59):
Yeah, you’d go to www.recklessloveoutreach.com. We’re also on Facebook, Reckless Love Outreach, and we have a YouTube channel at RecklessLove Outreach.

Evangelist Daniel King (17:13):
Awesome. Well, Shane, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.

Shane Graham (17:18):
Thank you so much for having me, Daniel.

Evangelist Daniel King (17:22):
All right.

 

Revolution in World Missions | Bishop Daniel

What does it look like to give your entire life to the Great Commission? In this powerful episode of the Evangelism Podcast, we sit down with Bishop Daniel, a global Christian leader whose heart beats for the unreached and the forgotten. As President of GFA World, Bishop Daniel serves as a vital bridge between thousands of frontline missionaries across Africa and Asia and the global Church. Raised in a family devoted to world missions, his life has been marked by compassion, sacrifice, and an unwavering call to bring the Living Water of Jesus to the most desperate places on earth. His story will stir your faith, awaken your compassion, and challenge you to live fully surrendered to God’s global harvest.

Learn more about Bishop Daniel and receive a free copy of the book, Revolution in World Misssons: https://bishopdaniel.org/

 

Transcript: 

Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
What does it look like to give your entire life to the Great Commission? In this powerful episode of the Evangelism Podcast, we sit down with Bishop Daniel, a global Christian leader whose heart beats for the unreached and the forgotten. As president of GFA World Bishop Daniel serves as a vital bridge between thousands of frontline missionaries across Africa and Asia, and the global church raised in a family devoted to world missions. His life has been marked by compassion sacrifice in an unwavering call to bring the living water of Jesus to the most desperate places on earth. His story will stir your faith, awaken your compassion, and challenge you to live fully surrendered to God’s global harvest.

Evangelism Podcast Host (01:08):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist, Daniel King.

Evangelist Daniel King (01:33):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Bishop Daniel from Gospel for Asia. Thank you, sir for being on the Evangelism Podcast.

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (01:49):
No, it’s my privilege. Thanks for having me.

Evangelist Daniel King (01:51):
Gospel for Asia is one of the largest missions organizations in the world. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do and what drives your organization?

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (02:06):
Yeah, the original name of the organization’s gospel for Asia and transition now to GFA World because we moved out of Asia into expanding into Africa. So we’re still in Asia, but it was kind of a funny thing. We realized our name doesn’t work anymore because the work is getting bigger. So GFA World’s history is really interesting. So both of my parents were involved in missions, my dad from the age of 16. That’s an incredible story that people can read in his book, revolutionary Missions. My mom actually comes from Germany from a small village and she also was involved in missions from a very young age. And after both my parents had spent many, many years on the mission field practically with teams. I mean sometimes their teams were beaten, they were chased out of places, really difficult hands-on experience. God led them to be able to begin what is now GFA world.

(03:05):
But the way they began is they didn’t know exactly what God would want them to do. They knew missions, they knew national missions. And so what they did is they called their friends together every Tuesday and said, can we gather in our living room and pray? So they would put the maps of different countries out the world, maps and maps in Nepal, the India and Africa and different places. And they would just begin to pray. They literally took serious what Jesus said, pray to the Lord of the harvest to send out more labors. And from that small Tuesday night prayer meeting mission’s, prayer meeting GFA world really has expanded into four major areas. One is sending out national missionaries into places that are really difficult and complicated. Second is assisting children to have a future, especially through education. At the height of our child sponsorship program, we were helping over 80,000 kids to be able to have a future.

(03:57):
The third is transforming communities through Christ’s love. And this happens through literacy, water and everything else. But what we want to see is entire communities spiritually and physically uplifted, a church established so people are established in the faith. And then third, fourth is disaster relief. Kind like what we were doing recently in Sri Lanka with the flooding that took place. And so from these kind of focuses that we’ve seen, literally millions and millions of people’s lives have been changed. We’ve seen tens of thousands of water projects put in tens of thousands of people’s lives being transformed. Churches established the goal for us in the passion that drives us, it sounds kind of funny, but it’s two things. One is to know Christ and second is to make him known. And my dad, he went to be with the Lord just about a year and a half ago.

(04:52):
He would emphasize over and over, even though we are one of the largest missions organizations in the entire world, when the history is written about church planting and church history and missions, I mean GFA world will be prominent in that. And yet he said, our greatest concern is not necessarily just missions, but it’s knowing Christ. He said, end of the day, we stand before God and we stand before God alone. And the only question is, did you know me? And so he would talk to our staff and he’s like, look, what’s more important than the work that we do is do we know Christ? Are we knowing God more and more? And so he would constantly emphasize that. And I believe that is one of the unique things about GFA world. While we are so focused on missions and national missions in reaching the most unreached, what’s behind that?

(05:47):
What drives us is our love for God. I mean, Jesus said this in Matthew’s gospel, but John 1415, if you love, you will obey me. If you obey me, you abide in me. And if you abide in me, your life bears fruit. The father’s will that you don’t just bear fruit, but good fruit, lasting fruit, much fruit. And so the driving point behind GFA world is a call to know God more and more. And from that love and passion, we want others to know him also. And I think that’s the passion that runs through all of our staff everywhere, whether it’s here or in Canada or in Australia, New Zealand, everywhere else. And that’s been there for the last 45 years. There’s never been an emphasis on just we need to do more work and more missions, but we need to love God more and more.

(06:42):
That small prayer meeting that my parents had on Tuesday over 45 years ago, we still continue that all around the world. So we still have every week Tuesday prayer, seven o’clock to nine o’clock, we gather all the community together, we put the maps out, we have different prayer quests and stories from the mission field. And then the first Friday of each month we have all night prayer. So it goes from like seven o’clock in the evening till about one o’clock in the morning. We have our watch night prayer, praying for the world, kind of entering into the same thing that Christ said, pray with me. Can you pray with me through the night? And so we take it serious and we have seen God answer prayers and do incredible, incredible things on the mission field.

Evangelist Daniel King (07:23):
I really love that you are second generation in ministry. My parents were also missionaries and a lot of my passion for following Jesus comes from their example and their prayers over the years, and I’m sure it’s the same in your case, what were some of the things that you learned from your father and then what is it like now to step into his shoes and to follow him? It can’t be easy to follow a great man of God like your father.

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (07:57):
Yeah. I almost laugh that both of us have a similar experience in terms of my dad was a pastor and a mission leader. And I don’t know if your dad was a pastor, but being a PK is bad enough and being a pk MK is double whammy. But I think growing up on the mission field, I grew up on the mission field. I grew up here too. So I had this weird east west experience and I’m so grateful for that. I can see the good and the bad both in the east and the west, and I can see things more objectively. And I think that’s something that God has really used now in my leadership, taking responsibility as the president of GFA world. But what I’ve seen is that my dad and my mom ministry and missions was not something that they did, but it was who they were.

(08:57):
It was who they were. It wasn’t something that was just their job or just a calling that they had upon their life, but they lived and breathed that. I mean, my dad would talk in his sleep sometimes my mom would tell us and he would be either sharing the gospel in his sleep or preaching to someone or talking to someone on the mission field. I mean, it was just constantly what was on his mind. And it was something that God did for him when he was a very young person. When my dad was 16, there was a missions team that came into his village. Now my dad’s village in South India is the same village that St. Thomas came to in 80 52. So 80 52, I mean this is just 20 something years after Christ’s resurrection, St. Thomas, doubting Thomas, Hey Thomas, put your hands here. And on my side, that same St. Thomas came to India and brought the faith. So my dad’s village, you can still go visit some of the churches where St. Thomas established the faith. I mean the original building is not there, but the

Evangelist Daniel King (10:03):
Is there. Yeah, I’ve been there actually I think where they say that he was martyred, they stabbed him to death with spears.

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (10:12):
Yeah. So he came to Carala where my dad was born and established the churches along the coast and went to Chennai where you got to visit and he was speared to death. Interesting. Christ was speared on the cross in St. Thomas, got to be speared on also in the same way. But the interesting thing is my dad in his village had 2000 years of Christian history. I mean this is some of the oldest Christian faith history in the entire world. I think St Mark in Egypt might be the one that’s close to that. And so my dad had never heard that there were people in his own country that had never heard about Christ because I mean you got like 2000 years of Christian history in his village. And so there was this missionary team that came to my dad’s village to challenge young people to surrender their life for full-time ministry.

(11:03):
My dad was too shy, so he climbed a tree that hung over the river and he listened to these missionaries, challenging young people and challenging people to go to parts of the country that had never heard about Christ. And there on top of that tree, my dad prayed and said, God, I don’t have any gifts. I don’t have any talents. If you want my life, you can have it. And my dad surrendered his life to God from the age of 16 and he ended up joining a missions team and spending the next eight years doing missions in some of these areas. But myself, I have been to places up in North or in these other countries and you go and ask some of these people, do you know Christ? And the response will be something like this, I lived here my whole life. My friends are here, my family’s here.

(11:53):
Your friend Jesus is not here. Check the next village down this road. And you might find your friend Jesus. I remember traveling in the vehicle with my dad one day. We were up in North India somewhere, I don’t remember which state. And it was Christmas day. I don’t know where we were going. I was little, but I remember my dad saw a farmer plowing the field, the oxen, wooden plow, classic plowing the field. And my dad got out of the vehicle, talked to the farmer and said, why are you working on Christmas? And the man responded and said, what’s a Christmas? I mean, the guy literally had no idea who Jesus is, has no idea what Christmas is all about. And these experiences really impacted my life, impacted my dad’s life, that there’s a world out there that is still waiting to hear about Christ for the very first time.

(12:49):
And we should never be ungrateful for the privilege that we have. I mean, I’m in Texas, you’re in Oklahoma. We’re kind of almost in the buckle of the Bible belt. I mean, we’re just there. You can go to Walmart and you can buy a Bible. The irony is the Bible’s printed in China. I mean we’re smuggling Bibles into China, they’re printing it for us. You can go to In-N-Out Burger and there’s Bible verses on the bottom of the cup. You can turn on the radio and there’s Christian radio stations from one extreme to the other extreme. You can drive down the street and you can walk into a church like all kinds of churches. I’ve seen intersections with four churches on four corners. I mean, it’s amazing. It is crazy. It’s so hard not to hear the gospel in some way here. And I know it does happen.

(13:38):
I’ve met people in America that have never heard the gospel and dunno, Christ, I know that. But when you talk about millions and millions and millions of people in some of these nations in Africa and India, in South Asia that are still waiting to hear about Christ for the very first time, I mean this is what drove my parents. This is what drives me. This is what drives GFA world. And I grew up in that environment, living on the mission field, being in the villages, seeing the reality of the missionaries going door to door, praying for the sick, giving out gospel tracks and sharing about Christ very simply. And people’s hearts are just so ready and open what God has done for them. This is what drives me. This is what drove the passion for my dad. And I’m so grateful that I got to walk with my dad all these years and got to experience what does it mean to see servant leadership take place?

(14:38):
So now when I’m taking responsibility for the ministry, I’m able to look back on those experiences with that same heart and passion and be so grateful that that was instilled in me and my joy and my hope is this, that I can instill that same passion in other people. And I would encourage people, we were talking about my dad’s book earlier, but Revolution World Missions, I would encourage everyone to get a copy of this. It will ruin your life if you read this book. The funny thing about this book is my dad wrote this book talking about national missions, missionaries from their own country and own language. But I know so many people that have picked up this book and read it and they went as missionaries and they’re like, God, use this book to call me. And I’m like, I’m so grateful for that.

(15:28):
If people want to get a copy of that, if they go to bishop daniel.org, you can hit the link and get a free copy of this book. But I would encourage everyone to read this book. And the reason is, if my dad was here and he was talking about missions, and he would say The starting point for all of us is this, pray that God would fill our heart with compassion. It’s not just knowing mission stats for what the greatest needs are in the world or world, A, B, C or the 10 40 window or all these things. He would say, look, when Christ saw the crowds, he was moved with compassion. And unless our hearts break with the things that break God’s heart, it doesn’t matter how many missionary stories or what we see on TV and this famine in that war, our hearts will not be moved unless our hearts are filled with compassion.

(16:21):
So really the starting point is God, would you break my heart with the things that break your heart? My dad faced a crisis in his life when he first came to America. He was studying in Bible college and he slowly kind of got stuck into wanting to live out the American dream. And it ended up being materialism almost killed my dad, wanting to be like the Joneses and wanting to be like your neighbors. And yet he was starting the ministry. He was pastoring. He was going to Bible college and he found that his heart was becoming more and more cold. Materialism was killing him. And my mom had been praying for him for a couple of years just quietly asking God to do a work on my dad’s heart. And one day he borrowed a prayer and God broke his heart. He borrowed prayer and said, Lord, take eternity.

(17:15):
God take eternity and stamp it on my eyes, take eternity stamping on my eyes, break my heart with the things that break your heart. And from that point on, he was never the same. My parents sold everything, gave away everything. They began to support missionaries that they knew on the mission field. But it seems like when we talk about missions, people either intellectually take the information but their hearts are not broken for it. And so the starting point really is every church should be praying. God break our hearts for what’s happening around world. Every family should be praying, God, would you break our hearts? And my dad would say this practically, get a world map. People don’t have world maps. They can write to me. I’ll send ’em a world map. Get a world map. Stick it somewhere in your house that you can see it.

(18:04):
And when you see on the news that there’s this war or there’s this famine or there’s this problem happening, get the family together. Go find that country on the map and just take a few moments, just a minute and just pray. God, would you pour out your mercy on this country? Would you send more missionaries? When we talk about Afghanistan where there’s hardly any Christians there or some of these nations or Somalia or North Korea? I mean we should be desperately praying. I would challenge every church in America every Sunday to take two minutes out of their service. Two minutes. I mean that’s like really short two minutes out of the service and highlight some country and pray for more missionaries to go through that. If people want a resource get Operation world, I’m sure you’re very familiar with it. There’s a big fat book. There’s also an app that goes through every country of the world.

(18:57):
It has prayer requests. Our churches need to be missions minded, but how do we do that? Bring their needs of the world in front of our congregation? I promise you, as people begin to pray for missions and pray for the needs of the world and give towards missions, those churches will be blessed. I’ve seen it happen. Churches that get involved in missions, they see the giving go up. People’s hearts are softer. People are doing incredible things. And I’ve seen my own friends who stopped giving towards missions and they started using the word missional. We’re doing more missional things around our church, which means we’re not doing missions anymore. We’re doing nice things to keep the money close. Their churches started dying and it shrinks and we become more self-centered. Missions is one of the only things that gets our eyes off of ourself and fixes it on the world out there.

(19:53):
And this is what Jesus said to the disciples in John’s gospel, chapter four. You remember Jesus was talking to the Samaritan woman, that whole conversation. She goes back to the village and says, I found the Messiah. The disciples come back and brought food and they’re like, Jesus, please eat. And Jesus says, I have food to eat that you do not know. And they’re like, okay, this doesn’t make sense. We went into the village to buy you food and now you’re saying that you have food to eat and that culture still in the east, unless Jesus eats first, the disciples can’t eat. So they’re hungry. Jesus is saying he already ate. I mean, it’s kind of a big dilemma. And then Jesus says, you say still four months and then comes to harvest. I say to you, now lift up your eyes and see the harvest that’s ready to be brought in.

(20:39):
What Jesus was telling them and telling us and telling me is this, lift up our eyes off of our small petty concerns and our small little life, what we think is so important, lift our eyes above that and see that there’s an entire world out there waiting for the gospel. And then the question is, what are we going to do about it? Like it’s not enough just to know, but we have to be concerned. And so lifting up our eyes off of our own selves, our own plans, our own concerns, our own worries, and realizing that the privilege that we have to know Christ is a great privilege, that half the world wishes that they would know. And this has been the heart of GFA world. This has been the heart of the missionaries, the heart of my dad. And I know it’s your heart also. And one day we will stand before the Lord. And in this very short life, all that matters is did we know Christ and did we live our life in a way that made him known to the rest of the world? That’s it. We’re not taking anything with us. I mean, my dad went to be the Lord a year and a half ago, and he didn’t take his car, he didn’t take his house, he didn’t take anything,

Evangelist Daniel King (22:02):
But he took lived millions of souls with him

(22:06):
Because the only thing you can take into eternity is other people. And I so love hearing your heart cry, your passion for the lost. I think that is the heart of God for the world to be saved. Let’s talk a little bit about strategy for world missions. Your father wrote the book, A Revolution in World Missions, and really I think the revolution he is talking about is empowering national leaders to go and to preach the gospel. And talk to me a little bit about that strategy and why it has been able to produce such great fruit in the ministry that you and your father have led.

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (22:52):
Yeah, I think my father, my father was very, very aware that throughout history from the very beginning, I mean after the resurrection, the gospel has gone forth, proclaiming about Christ and the resurrection, victory over sin, Satan and death had gone all around the world. But the challenge of taking that good news is a continuous effort no matter what happens. And as countries begin to close, and this is what happened, especially in my dad’s book, revolution missions, and he kind of highlights it when you look at the 10 40 window, and for people that maybe don’t know what the 10 40 window is, if you take a map and you look at the latitude lines that go across, there’s like 10 and there’s like 40, of course zero is in the middle, somewhere there. It kind of creates this rectangular block from North Africa all the way to Japan up into Russia, parts of Russia, down past India into Sri Lanka.

(24:02):
And what it’s doing, it’s highlighting some of the most unreached places on earth. And most people groups are there. The least amount of missions, resources go there. I mean, we spend more on dog food than we do on missions. If 1% of our Christmas giving was given towards missions, I mean it would overwhelm everything. We could give a Bible to every person on earth if even a small percentage of our Christmas giving was given. Nothing wrong with Christmas, nothing wrong with dogs and kitties and dog food. That’s not the point. The point is we just don’t know. We really just don’t even are aware of this. And so after World War ii, about 80% of those nations within the 10 40 window were restricted or closed for outsiders or it became very, very difficult. My dad was not saying that people should not go as missionaries if God calls ’em.

(24:51):
But my dad was saying, let’s switch the question. Let’s ask the right question. What’s the best way for those people in those nations to hear the gospel? I mean, if it’s sending hot air balloons over into North Korea with gospel tracks, fine. If it’s doing that, if it’s strapping a Bible onto a chicken and having it across the border, fine, whatever that is, if it’s radio, if it’s podcasts, if it’s smuggling, it doesn’t matter. The right question will give you the right answer. And the right question was what’s the best way for many of these people in these restricted areas to hear the gospel? And the natural answer was, national missionaries, missionaries, people from their own country who know the language, who already know the culture, who live at the level of the people who are accepted already, who know the mannerisms and all they need is a little bit of support and they need our prayers to send them.

(25:52):
These people can reach their own people with the gospel in a greater and faster way. And from a business point, which is not what I like to talk about from Business point, the ROI is so much greater when you have someone who know the language and they live at the level of the people. And this is what Amy Carmichael and even Hudson Taylor and others said, they actually said their righties, unless the nationals take ownership, the ministry efforts will die. Someone has to continue it. They have to own it. We don’t want to just hand out fish. We want to teach people how to fish and let them fish. And so what we’ve seen is through national missions, we’ve seen incredible things happen. I mean, I’ll give you a funny story. One of our missionaries is going door to door as normal, knock on the doors like, Hey, have you heard about Christ?

(26:43):
Or Here’s a gospel traction. Is there anyone I can pray for? And the family was like, yeah, there’s someone sick in our family. Can you please pray? And so our missionary said, sure, I’d be happy to pray. It happens all the time. And so they led the missionary through the house and the backside of the house. There was a sick water buffalo. And they’re like, can you pray for our water buffalo? And I mean, you know this and I know this. They milk the buffalo, sell the milk. And that’s money for food. So sick buffalo means no food. That’s basically what it means. So our missionary latest hands on this water buffalo and say, God, if there’s ever a time to do something, this is the time to do something. And God healed the water, Buffalo, sinky water, buffalo, God healed. And the whole family, they said, we want to commit our lives to God.

(27:34):
The neighbors heard about it because I mean, neighbors are right there. They’re like, we want to know about this. Jesus. So many people in that village gave their lives to Christ that a church was established in the village because of this stinky water buffalo. And in another place, there was one of our missionaries, our national missionaries who was sharing about Christ. A little crowd had gathered, he’s giving out gospel tracks and sharing about Christ. And a little boy was listening to this missionary talk about the stories of Christ healing the blind man or the lame man. And so after everyone was gone, he said, could you please pray for my father? My father’s not well. So the little boy led our missionary outside the village. There was his father tied to a tree. He was demon possessed and so wild, just like what you read in the Bible, so wild and uncontainable.

(28:28):
And he said, can you please pray for my father? He’s not well. And so our missionary prayed for his father. He explained the gospel and God set him free. Now, I mean, think about this now, the boy and his father in his right mind and the missionary come walking back into the village. What do you think everyone wants to know? That’s the crazy guy. For years that was tied up outside the village, so many people gave their hearts to Christ because of this one small little miracle. There’s an extreme story that I’ve only heard about this a few times in my life. It’s actually happened in one of the places on the mission field where one of our missionaries was walking along a sacred water source where people would dip themselves for forgiveness of sins. And there was this woman weeping uncontrollably. And especially in some of these middle Eastern Asian African cultures, when you see someone publicly crying out loud, it means something really bad has happened.

(29:33):
So our missionary went and asked, is everything okay? And she said, my sins are so many. My husband is sick. My kids are sick. I don’t know what to do to find forgiveness as sins, and to find the answer to all these problems, I’ve given the best gift and offering. I know what to do. I’ve taken my three month old baby boy and threw him into the water as a sacrifice. And she went crying and weeping. And my dad got this letter. He’s reading this letter from this missionary of his experience. And my dad is on the floor on his knees weeping while he is reading this letter. And the missionary explained to this woman that Christ went to the cross and he can forgive your sins and he gives you life. And he conquered sins, Satan and death.

(30:26):
And in the letter the missionary said, she wiped her eyes and looked into my eyes and said, where were you half an hour ago? Where were you? She said, it’s too late. It’s too late. And she went back crying, weeping. And my dad was weeping at that time. And that’s an extreme story, but those words of Where were you? Why did it take you so long to get here? This is what drives our national missionaries. They love their people so much. They have a passion for their own people, and they desperately want their people to know about Christ. And for us, our passion that drives us, my dad would always say, he would quote that scripture work while it’s day, because nine is coming when no man couldn’t work. Many of these nations within the 10 40 window in Africa and other places, the doors are slowly closing.

(31:24):
Persecution is up. I mean, I just was talking to our missions leaders on the field, and several of our people were put in prison just last week. They spent, others were spent Christmas in prison. It’s becoming more and more common that the missionaries are getting beaten, they’re being imprisoned, but the courage that they have and the love that they have for their own people drives them. And what we’ve seen is these national missionaries, all they need is a little bit of support. It takes like $45 a month to help support national missionary, but to be able to support a national missionary and then to back them with prayer, this is one of the greatest opportunities. In a little letter of third John, which is basically a postcard, John writes his postcard to Gaas and he says, it’s an interesting verse in there. He says, if you help the traveling missionaries along the way, you become part of their ministry.

(32:26):
You become part of their work. People don’t realize that many, many nations on Earth are closed for outsiders, or we may not have the ability because of where we are or the responsibilities that we have that we may not be able to just pick up and go to some other country. But when we pray, when we support, when we link our arms with those who are doing missions, we become part of their life. We become part of their missions outreach. And so the churches that are being planted, the gospel tracks that are being given, the widows that are being reached, the lepers that are being cleaned, the children that are being helped, the street people that are being covered with blankets in the middle of winter, we in effect, are joining with those missionaries who are doing that. And this is the power of national missions, is they are going to places that we would never be able to go or effectively go.

(33:25):
And yet we get to involve our life in missions fulfilling the Great Commission. The great Commission is not just for missionaries and for weird pastors, it’s for all of us. And yet we get to do that through our prayers and our support. And I believe that GFA world has become one of the greatest bridges to link the church in the West with the church in the East to see missions fulfilled. So we have no excuse now. We literally have no excuse. All of us can participate in missions and all of us can at least pray. And I would encourage, I would challenge again. I would challenge every church in America, take two minutes out of the service every Sunday and pray for missions. I would pray I would challenge every family, pray for our children, that God would use them in some way in missions, whether they go or they do something with their life.

(34:17):
I would challenge every family, take time out of the month to maybe fast and pray as a family for missions. I know some families, they do this. They go one time less out to eat, and they use those resources for missions. I know some families, they’ll take a meal a week and just have rice and beans, and they’ll use those resources that they normally would’ve spent to buy gospel tracks or to support missionaries. I know families that during Christmas they draw names. So everyone gets a present, but then they use some of the resources that would’ve been spent for Christmas to support national missionaries or to buy gifts for someone else across the world. And so it’s very simple. I mean, it could be as simple as twice a week, I make my coffee at home rather than going to Starbucks. People don’t realize 10 cents can mean a hundred gospel tracks, and the average gospel tract is read by 10 people. I mean, I give out gospel tracks to people in the mission field who can’t read and write because I know they’ll find someone to read to them. I mean, it is amazing. But the power of national missions is something that God has gifted to us. It’s there in the Book of Acts. It’s there in the scriptures, but it’s alive and well today. And GFA world has become one of the greatest bridges to see how our life, our prayers can have effect all around the world in Africa and Asia.

Evangelist Daniel King (35:49):
Well, thank you so much for what you do. It’s so valuable and needed in the harvest fields of the world. If someone wants to support the ministry that you’re involved in or find out more information about you, what is a good website that they can go to connect with you?

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (36:09):
Yeah, the best link that people can go to, go to bishop daniel.org, and it has multiple links in there to getting the Revolutionary Missions book for free, learning about supporting national missionaries or links to stories to learn more about the ministry or even how to pray better. So bishop daniel.org is a great resource to share with your friends or others, or even churches.

Evangelist Daniel King (36:34):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it.

Bishop Daniel – GTA World (36:40):
Thank you so much for having me. Really, really appreciate it.

Evangelism Podcast Host (36:45):
Do you ever find it hard to share your faith? What if telling someone about Jesus was as simple as drawing a picture on a napkin in his latest book, the Gospel in Pictures communicating Eternal Truth Visually by Evangelist Daniel King, you’ll discover simple and creative ways to explain the plan of salvation anytime, anywhere. This powerful book will teach you how to be bold in sharing your faith clearly. Communicate the basic gospel message in remembering the plan of salvation. Imagine sitting in a coffee shop. Someone asks, what must I do to be saved with just a pen and a napkin? You’ll be able to draw the way to eternal life in a way they’ll never forget. If you want to be an effective witness for Jesus and confidently lead others to salvation, this is the book for you. To get your copy of the gospel and pictures, go to king ministries.com. Also available on Amazon.

Evangelism Podcast Host (37:45):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.

 

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Avoiding Burnout in the Ministry | Roman Nechay

Roman Nechay is an evangelist who has been traveling around the world telling young people about Jesus. Now he has led over half a million people in a salvation prayer. He has experienced great success but at the same time he has learned the importance of avoiding burnout. On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast, he shares some secrets that will help evangelists to last long term on the mission field.

 

Read Roman Nechay’s Blog Post About Avoiding Burnout: https://www.romannechay.com/blog/avoid-burnout

Transcript:

Evangelist Daniel King (00:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Roman Niche. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (00:13):
It’s my pleasure, Daniel.

Evangelist Daniel King (00:15):
You were one of the students of the Evangelism Bootcamp with Christ for All Nations, and I had the privilege of teaching the students, and then you went out to the mission field and you have been driven by one vision to reach a million people for Jesus. So Roman, tell me, how is it going?

Evangelist Roman Nechay (00:38):
Praise the Lord Daniel. I’m so grateful. First of all, I just want to say thank you. I honor you, what you’re doing for Jesus, winning souls for Christ. And I want to say thank you for Christ for all nations for training me and Daniel Colinda to put their trust in me and Jesus, of course, for allowing me to preach the gospel. When I was 18 years old, 19 years old, I was praying to Jesus on my knees. I said, “Lord, use me to bring one million people to you. ” And little did I know that this is how it’s going to turn out through Christ for all nations. By God’s grace, Daniel, we have seen 503,000 decisions for Christ just three weeks ago. We just hit that number.

Evangelist Daniel King (01:17):
What an amazing accomplishment. Now, you have actually been with me on the evangelism podcast before. And what’s really interesting, that was like three or four years ago. And at that time, you were talking about this great desire to go out and to reach a million people for Jesus. And now you have passed the halfway mark. And so I’m so proud of you. I’m so amazed at what God is doing through you. And you have been going to nation after nation, harvesting in the harvest fields, bringing people to Jesus. Tell me some about some of the nations you’ve been to most recently and what you’ve seen God do there.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (02:00):
Yeah. We’ve been to Asia, Africa. We’ve been to 49 nations so far. I was just on a trip to Madagascar, to Mauritius. I was also in Thailand as you are also preaching the gospel there. Well, we’re seeing that God is moving. We’re seeing that God is moving different nations in the poor regions and the better regions just all over. But one testimony that comes to mind, we were preaching the gospel in Madagascar and there was a 12-year-old boy who came up to me afterwards. He says, “I want to change. I’ve been disobedient to teachers, to my parents. I’ve been disruptive in class. I want to change. How do I do it? ” And I said, “Jesus is a solution. Jesus can help you change. He can change your heart.” And so I asked him, “Do you want Jesus to forgive your sins?” He said, “Yes.” We prayed together with him and I saw his countans change there on the spot.

(02:53):
He went from being depressed to smiling to being happy and joyful. And I said, “Did Jesus forgive your sins?” He says, “Yes, Jesus forgave my sins and he ran off playing with his friends. I saw the transforming power of the Holy Spirit in his life, Daniel.”

Evangelist Daniel King (03:07):
And you’re getting ready to lead a team to the island of Mauritius, which is right off of Madagascar. It’s a small island. And the goal is to reach everyone on the island for Jesus. Tell us what you’re planning to do there and what you hope to see God do.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (03:28):
Yes. By God’s grace, we’re leading a team to Mauritius. It’s a small island by Madagascar. It is mostly Hindu and they really truly need the gospel of Jesus Christ. They have shrines, they have these pagan temples all over the place and they don’t know Jesus. And so we’re taking a team of 30 evangelists who are from Christ for all nations. We are doing a Jesus camp training there with 80 individuals who are believers. We’re training them how to preach the gospel. And then we’re going all over the island to preach the gospel of Jesus. We are planning to do 500 outreaches in five days. We are going to be reaching the whole island and we’re going to go after the youth of Jesus Christ. Why the youth? Because 70% of people who make a decision to follow Jesus are under the age of 18. So we want to target the youth.

(04:17):
I was 16 when I came to Jesus. So we’re doing that and then we’re doing a gospel invasion all around the island inside churches and we’re inviting the loss and the unbelievers to the churches to preach the gospel to them. So we’re going to see a revival happen on a small island of Mauritius, but big things that are happening, Daniel.

Evangelist Daniel King (04:37):
Now I was looking at your website, romaneche.com. And I saw that you have a blog on there that I think is very important for people who are in ministry, who are doing evangelism, a subject that they really need to think about. And this is the title, it’s 10 Proven Ways to Avoid Burnout on the Mission Field. And my understanding is that this came really out of your first year of evangelism where you went really, really hard for an entire year and you were dedicated, you’re focused, but then you came to a point where you said, “I need rest.” Why is it important in ministry to have times of rest?

Evangelist Roman Nechay (05:24):
When I was on the mission field in 2022, I was out there for a whole year. I came back and I thought I was done with ministry forever. I didn’t know if God is going to use me. I was doubting my calling. It was very challenging for me. For a whole month, I just crashed. I burned and I didn’t know what was going to happen next. Well, slowly after about three months or so, I recovered and went into more missions and started to preach the gospel. Well, I’ve seen many people burn out on the mission field. Unfortunately, there’s some evangelists even from Christ for All Nations that said, “Hey, I’m not doing missions because I’m done. I cannot do it anymore.” And I don’t want to see that happen to evangelists. God called us to preach the gospel and he called us to run a mararathon, not just to do a short sprint.

(06:12):
So what- Yeah, I

Evangelist Daniel King (06:13):
Think part of the challenge is some people, they get so enthusiastic and they’re like a firework. They go up in the air, big explosion, and then it just dies out. But I like what you said, we’re in a marathon, not a sprint. We want to remain faithful for many years to come. We don’t want to just have a short bit of success and then no one ever hears of us again. We want to continue to run after the things of God five years from now, 10 years, 20 years, all the way until we go to heaven. And in order to do that, you have to pace yourself a little bit. So in this article, you share some secrets of avoiding burnout. Give us some of the keys that really help people.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (07:03):
Yeah. I want to talk about a couple of key things that help me really on the mission field. Number one, I want to talk about being thankful. We oftentimes miss see this while we think, “Oh yeah, we’re just running.” But we don’t actually sit down and just be thankful to God what he has done in our lives. And it could be something small. It could be, “Hey, one person came to Jesus today.” It could be my team members that I’m serving with. It could be just my family back at home just to jot down three to five things every single day of what we are thankful for. That’s one of the things. Another thing I would just encourage people to do is it’s very basic, but it’s essential get enough sleep. On the mission field, I see some people are getting very small amount of sleep, five hours, four hours, and Daniel, some of them are even bragging about, “Oh, I got five hours of sleep last night.” And their eyes are so heavy and it looks like they’re about to fall down on the ground right there and then.

(07:58):
So I want to-

Evangelist Daniel King (08:00):
You can do that for a while, but it’s not good to do it for long periods of time. It will burn you out. Think about God. He created the whole world in six days and then what’d he do? He took a rest. He went and had a Sabbath day and he told us to have Sabbaths in our life. And so we need to get rest, take the time to just relax and recharge our batteries, both physical and spiritual.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (08:29):
Absolutely. So I try to get at least seven to eight hours of sleep and sometimes even that’s not enough to be recharged and fully to go the following day because we’re doing seven to 10 outreaches per day. So we need to be sharp. We need to be healthy, strong mentally and spiritually, and we need to go after those souls. Another thing I wanted to talk about was just keeping a daily journal. See at the things that God has done, the victories from the day, the fears, the worries to the challenges, the breakthroughs, I write those down just to see what’s happening in my mind to let them off my mind and onto the paper or onto the phone and the notes on the phone that helps to just look through the day and just to be stress free. Other things like exercise. I have a jump rope in my backpack.

(09:17):
I keep that just in case. I’m feeling stressed, I’m feeling under pressure. I don’t feel as sharp and I feel foggy. I just go home, I jump rope. I go home and I just sprint for like a minute, then take a 30 second walk and I do it for 20 minutes a day, 20 minutes in that session. And I try to do that at least at least one time a week, sometimes two or three times.

Evangelist Daniel King (09:41):
So last night you and I went for a bike ride around the park, got some good exercise and relaxed a little bit. We went to the sauna and we’re in the sauna talking about good ways to reach people for Jesus. And it’s in those times of exercise and then rest where God can speak to you and give you creativity. What else?

Evangelist Roman Nechay (10:04):
I would say just sit there and just be still. I know this is really hard for evangelists and if you tell, “Hey, you got to sit down and not do anything,” this is going to disrupt their pattern. And so one thing that I started to do myself is just I would hike or I would maybe go and find just a quiet space and I would just sit there. Just either meditate or not even do anything at all and I would just let my head cool off. And that helps me just to reset and just to again feel strong and healthy mentally, just to sit. And sometimes it looks like I’m sitting on a hill, sometimes just outside on the porch, but that helps again to reset. That’s another thing. And one thing, some people that don’t like to hear this, but limit your screen time.

(10:53):
I’m guilty of this, but limit screen time on Facebook, on Instagram. Sometimes I have to delete the apps, even though I want to post everything that’s happening on the mission field, I delete it unless I need to post something urgently and I keep it for two weeks, one week at a time, and then I redownload it and post whatever I need. So that also helps.

Evangelist Daniel King (11:13):
I think screen time is a real danger in this time that we live in. It’s really easy to pick up the phone and start scrolling and suddenly an hour is gone. You’re not rested, you’re emotionally involved in the politics or the different things that people are talking about, even just funny videos and stuff, you get emotionally invested in it and it doesn’t help you to rest. And so my son Caleb, we just gave him a cell phone for Christmas. He just is about to turn 16 and so he’s been asking for one for a long time, but now we have the challenge of teaching him healthy habits around his screen time. And I think that’s something that all of us need is to limit our screen time because when you’re just scrolling, you are not really accomplishing anything.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (12:09):
I agree with you, Daniel. I just want the evangelists to really hear this. Jesus wants us to be healthy. God wants us to run the race that’s set before us and to complete the task ahead of us. And my heart is really to run a race and to go into my old age and preach the gospel to as many people as possible, but also do it in the right way. So I want to encourage these people to just to make sure that you are resting on the mission field. Another thing that helps is just to preplan. Sometimes I like to be spontaneous, but to pre-plan the activities for the weekend. Weekend is a rest day, Saturday, Sunday. For example, going to a museum or going to a zoo or going to a waterpark, whatever it looks like, or maybe just not even doing any of those things and just, again, just sitting there and resting for some period of time, but just to pre-plan those activities so we are fresh and ready to go to preach the gospel powerfully and strongly.

Evangelist Daniel King (13:12):
Well, Roman, you’re doing such an amazing job leading people to Jesus. Congratulations on going over the 500,000 mark of people that you have personally led in a salvation prayer.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (13:24):
And I want to say that those 500,000 people, it’s not a number. It’s an individual that Jesus knows by name that he cares for and he is so, he’s rejoicing for every soul that comes to him. So it’s not this number, but it’s individuals that are going to be in heaven rejoicing with Jesus together. And we’re going to see them there. Though we may never see them again after the gospel crusade, we’re going to see them one day in heaven with Jesus.

Evangelist Daniel King (13:50):
Amen. And I believe that God will continue to give you great harvest. You’ll get your million and then millions more after that in Jesus’ name. And so I’m so excited about what God is doing through your ministry. If you’re listening and you want to help to support the ministry of Romaneche, you can go to his website, Roman, R-O-M-A-N, Nechay, N-E-C-H-A-Y.com and visit his website and you can find out how to be part of the Mauritius outreach, how to be part of the other outreaches that he has upcoming and support his ministry, be a part of what he’s doing to reach people for Jesus. And Roman, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

Evangelist Roman Nechay (14:35):
It’s a pleasure. Thank you, Daniel.

Evangelist Daniel King (14:37):
Let’s finish with a prayer for all of our evangelist friends that they will be able to avoid burnout and get the rest that they need. Would you go ahead and pray for

Evangelist Roman Nechay (14:48):
Them? Father God, thank you so much for every evangelist and minister and even believer listening to this podcast. Father God, I bless every one of them that they will not burn out, but they will burn for Jesus with fire, with the Holy Spirit passion. Father God, I ask that these evangelists and ministers will lead many people to Christ, but also do it with a good attitude full of joy, full of peace, full of rest, and they will change lives forever through the power of the Holy Spirit. Thank you, Lord, for every person because they’re so precious to you. Thank you, Jesus, for this opportunity to minister to them. Amen.

Evangelist Daniel King (15:26):
Amen. All

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Church Planting in North America | Gary Smith

Gary Smith is a church planter in one of the most difficult mission fields in the world, the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. He is church planting and raising up other church planters. He is the author of From Dying to Dangerous. Today we talk about the secrets of effective church planting.

Buy Gary Smith’s Book: From Dying to Dangerous: https://amzn.to/3N7uZM0

Learn more about Gary Smith and his ministry: http://churchplantingpathway.com/

Summary:

  • Pastor Gary Smith is the church planting director with Alliance New England, and he is working to plant 100 new churches in New England by 2033.
  • Smith is using a five-step church planting pathway to multiply disciples: (1) Follow, (2) Multiply, (3) Team, (4) Scale, and (5) Health.
  • A key part of Smith’s strategy is to “listen, listen, listen” to the Holy Spirit and to the person they are speaking with, rather than just focusing on what to say. This allows them to tailor their message and approach.
  • Smith has seen churches transformed from stagnant to soul-winning by helping them shift to a focus on making disciples and multiplying, rather than just on launching new services.

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:20):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have Pastor Gary Smith with me. He is a church planter and he has recently published a brand new book called From Dying to Dangerous. Pastor Gary, thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast.

Pastor Gary Smith (00:43):
Daniel, so great to be with you today and just thanks for this opportunity.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:48):
Well, tell me a little bit about yourself and what you’re doing for Jesus.

Pastor Gary Smith (00:55):
Thank you, Daniel. I currently serve as the church planting director with Alliance New England, which is with the Christian Missionary Alliance. And the territory that God has given to me are the six states of New England, typically listed as some of the most lost, most unreached states in the United States. And that’s exactly why we ask God to bring us here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:18):
You’re right in the middle of the mission field here in the United States. Absolutely. And it’s amazing going and ministering on the East Coast. It is in many ways a post-Christian area, very secular. And so what response have you been seeing as you minister in that part of the United States?

Pastor Gary Smith (01:39):
So we have been seeing a great response. When I came here, we had seen the district here, Alliance New England dropped from 80 some churches down to 50. And the district superintendent that was new said, “We believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding us into a new vision.” And so he cast a vision that the Alliance of England would double its amount of churches in New England in the next 10 years. And people were like, “That’s kind of crazy.” But I said, “I want to take that on. I believe that the Holy Spirit can do that. He can give us power to witness for him and about Christ.” And so we took this role on and we have seen God’s spirit work. The Lord of the harvest is faithful. And the thing is, Daniel, when people look at New England, they’ll say it’s hard. The people are hard, but God has been working here.

(02:30):
And so the great news is, is the Holy Spirit, when he is powerfully giving you power to witness and share about Christ, you can be anywhere, just anywhere. And so here we are, we’re seeing a harvest. We lead all of our church planters to be in the harvest. And now we have many, many planters here now.

(02:52):
We are going to more than double the amount of our churches here in less than five years, not just 10 years, but five years. And so Lord, the harvest is granting us leaders right and left here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:01):
Yeah. I saw on your website that one of the goals is to plant a hundred new churches before 2033. And so there’s a variety of different ministries around the world that are really focusing on that date, 2033, because it is the 2000 year anniversary of when Jesus rose from the dead, ascended up into heaven, and then the birth of the original church. And so I think it’s really cool that you’ve picked that as one of the dates you’re aiming towards. And tell me what is the strategy that you’re using to plant a hundred new churches?

Pastor Gary Smith (03:43):
So we’re trying to follow Jesus and his strategies because he has the best ones. And so the way we began, Daniel, is we watched Jesus meeting those fishermen and he saw something in their life, of course. And he said, “Follow me and I’ll make you fisher admit.” And so we designed our church planting system here to meet people the way that Jesus met them and to call them out. And what’s so interesting, Daniel, is that the church planting systems across North America for the most part have used these assessment systems that look for qualities and characteristics of church planters, nine to 11 of them typically. And I said, it seemed like Jesus way is that he called people out, he recognized characteristics in these leaders, and then he told them what he wanted them to be about, and then he invested in them. And so in our church planning pathway, what we do here in New England, that’s the only district in the Christian Missionary Alliance that’s doing it this way, by the way, is that we … I’ll meet a guy in a coffee shop and the Holy Spirit will say to me, “You need to call him out.

(04:59):
” And I’ve never met him before. And I’ll call him out and say, “Look, tell me about what you think about Jesus or about you thinking about sharing Jesus.” And they’ll be like, “What?” I’m like, “Yeah, tell me. ” And I had a guy say at a concert the other day, he said, “Well, I’ve led several people to the Lord at my recovery house that I’m now in. ” I said, “Perfect. You have the perfect characteristic of what I’m looking for. ” And so anyway, this is kind of the strategy that we’re walking here in New England and we are seeing God so at work. It’s just myself and my wife part-time. And we are now walking with … By this summer, we’ll have 35 church planners that are going to be in the harvest. We only have 50 churches. And so we are really seeing the move and we’re actually having to slow down our process just a little bit because we’re so advancing.

(05:47):
But it’s pretty exciting what God is doing here with us.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:49):
Wow. I saw in your bio that you’re originally from Canada. My wife is actually Canadian, so we love ministering in Canada and you are working to plant churches in Canada. What are the similarities or differences between what you’ve done in Canada and then New England?

Pastor Gary Smith (06:12):
What’s so interesting is that the United States and Canada are very much alike when you come north to south. So here we are in New England and the northern part of Canada that’s north of us is Quebec. I mean, people don’t realize that one of the most unreached people groups in the world are the Kibekua people. When we went there as a church planter, 0.3% of them were evangelical Christian. Now that number jumped up a bit because there’s been some great harvesting going on there, but Canada is different just like the US is different. When you go with prairie people, you find people that have spiritual backgrounds, religious backgrounds like Mennonites, this kind of groups. When they immigrated and came out, they brought something with them. But the people on the East and West Coast of Canada, just like the people on the East and West Coast of the United States are much greater, there’s a much greater need for the gospel and for harvesting in these places because there’s so few followers of Christ.

(07:06):
Even in the state of Vermont, there are nearly 50 communities still today that have no evangelical church at all in that state. And there’s not that big of a state, not that

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:15):
Many people. My wife is from Alberta, which is very similar to where I live in Tulsa, Oklahohoma. There’s a lot of Christians there, a lot of great churches. And I really, I feel like what God wants to have happen, both in Canada and the United States, is that the middle of the country where you have these great churches, if they could get a missionary vision to send people and to pray for the church planning efforts on both coasts, we could really see a revival in our nations.

Pastor Gary Smith (07:50):
I mean, I fully agree with you. When I was in Canada, if I were going to recruit, I wanted to recruit from the Midwestern states because I find that Midwesterners for the most part are the most flexible. And you have to be flexible when you’re on the mission field. First of all, to follow the Holy Spirit and his lead in what he’s doing, because he wants to do fresh things. He wants to do new things, but you are right. If these churches where their strength would say, “Let’s shift our resources.” I was so encouraged when I was writing my book, I found a church that, hey, they’ve shifted and now 50% of their resources are all going into the harvest now. And for an existing church, that’s a tough call for them to make. That’s going to really change the paradigm in what they’re doing.

(08:35):
But if we have more churches think that way, man, we could see a much greater harvest with the resources flowing in the harvest field.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:41):
Amen. Well, tell me a little bit about your book. It’s called From Dying to Dangerous: A Radical New Pathway for Churches to Reignite Kingdom Culture. And you talk in the book about how 1135 churches close their doors every single week, which is a horrible tragedy. I go down the street sometimes and you’ll see a beautiful building that used to be a church and now it has closed, it’s dead, it’s dying. And that’s not what God wants. God wants the kingdom of God to keep evangelizing and to keep growing and to never step back, but to always be going forward. So tell me a little bit about what revelation God has given you in this book from Dying to Dangerous.

Pastor Gary Smith (09:30):
Yeah. So just like you said, I start out trying to ring a clarion bell and say, “Look, everyone, we have got to realize how fast the church is going away in North America.” Daniels, I talk with people, I talk with pastors, they have no idea how dire it is. And in a sense, we know that God can turn this around. He totally can turn it around. But when I tell people 135 a week and we’re only planting at best, maybe 70 a week, I mean, I think that number’s a little high, but we are not coming close to matching the death that’s happening. Now, there are some great churches, by the way. Canada and the United States, there just are, but there’s very few that are really, really multiplying and advancing. And so in the book, I talk about that at first and then I say, okay, we’ve got to change the way that we go about this.

(10:26):
Organizations that are planting have got to change their strategy and their structure. And so in the book, I call churches, I call organizations, I call church plants to say, “Let me connect with you to help you to rethink how to truly see the United States as a mission field and to be shifting the way we’re going at it because with so many Americans and Canadians dying annually, and the amount of evangelism we’re doing is not even touching half of the death rate.” And so we have got to really rethink and people have got to get pretty uncomfortable, Daniel. So the book, I call people to that, to a level of discomfort to say, “Let’s listen to God together and do something different.” If our little organization of 50 churches is going to double the amount of works that we have here in just a few years, what would happen if other organizations, other denominations, other groups that love the gospel, that love the scripture would say, “What would it look like and what would it take for us to double the amount of churches we have, the amount of gospel sharing we have, the amount of souls we’re seeing saved, the number of people being baptized?” And it is not impossible.

(11:38):
Mark 9:23, Jesus said, “If you can believe all things are possible to him that believeth.” Our Lord can do greater things than we even ask our thought according to the book of Ephesians. And so in the book, I say, let’s connect, let me help you, let me walk with you, or just you walk with the spirit and let him tell you, you don’t need me necessarily, but let’s change the way we’re going about it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:59):
Let’s get down into real life details. Share with us some testimonies of how you have seen churches transformed from being stagnant into soul-winning churches.

Pastor Gary Smith (12:16):
Yeah. So one of the stories that I share in the book is I was pastoring a church in Alberta, you were talking about Alberta in a community that was growing so fast, the fastest growing community in Canada, Cochran and Alberta. And our children’s minister, she asked us this question in a staff meeting. She said, “Would anyone miss our church if it were not here tomorrow?” And we were so gripped by that. And so out of that, I’m going to make a long story short, out of that, we came up with a ministry called Love Cochran. And in that love Cochran ministry, we said, “We want to be the hands and feet of Jesus in this community.” And it was incredible what God did with that. It actually turned in such a way, Daniel, that the community actually started calling our church asking how we were going to help the community.

(13:08):
And so now our church was being seen, but it was also in that time, Daniel, that the church … There was a time when the church first started where it was seeing a pretty good amount of evangelism. There was a great pastor named Mel Blackaby, who was the pastor, and it was some great … But since then, it hadn’t seen the kind of evangelistic efforts that we were seeing, but we were starting to see … There was a year where we had 50 people baptized in that church and they hadn’t seen anything like that in a long time in that year. And we were seeing lots of people come to Christ almost every week. Someone was coming to Christ and it was pretty exciting. And so I’m just saying that was one story. Another story I’d love to take you to is a guy named JJ.

(13:48):
He’s a guy that’s a church planner with us here in New England. I got connected with him and he would not pass the church planning assessment. He sent me a text yesterday and he said, Gary, can you send me some materials? I want to start my first Discovery Bible group. It’s one of the greatest ways we’re doing evangelism, Daniel, is through these DBGs, Discovery Bible groups. And this guy, he said, “Gary, this guy was just sold out everything against God and now he’s so hungry, Gary. Show me what I could do.

(14:16):
” Excuse me. “How can I begin walking with him?” And so he’s so excited to start this Discovery Bible group with him. Man, this guy is going to reach so many people for Christ. It’s just incredible. So we just call people in our first step in our church planning pathway. We say, “Follow Jesus and fish for men.” Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:32):
And

Pastor Gary Smith (14:32):
That’s where we begin. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:34):
And so in your book From Dying to Dangerous, you have a church planting pathway, which is a proven five-step method to multiply disciples. Can you walk us through some of those steps that you go through in order to multiply disciples?

Pastor Gary Smith (14:51):
Absolutely. And so we’ve actually made it our assessment system, just so you know, so the people that know church planting, they know that church planters do assessment. We do it step by step. And so I’m going to lead you through the steps of what the qualifiers were looking for for us to take the planter to the next step. And as we advance them, we resource them even more. And so he was faithful with little will receive more. That’s a big part of our church playing pathway concept. Here’s what we do. We say, all right, I want to make sure that you want to follow Jesus sincerely, that you are saying, I want to be about what he’s asked it to be about. And I test that out by watching them fish, fish for people. And I give them all kinds of tools. I train them in the three Ls of evangelism.

(15:34):
I can tell you about that if you want to hear about that in a minute. And we say, “But I want to make sure they’re willing to follow Jesus and fish.” When they show me that, and there’s a few other things we do with them in that step, but that is the main thing. And every one of these steps is one word and it’s made it easy for us to translate because we now translate it into multiple languages as well. So it fits our North American multicultural context super well. The second thing is we say, okay, now that you are following Jesus and you’re starting to fish for people, you’ve seen some people come to Christ, you baptized someone in the ocean last week, how awesome is that? Now here’s what we want to see. Now we want to see you multiplying disciples. So take them to the great commission.

(16:09):
Jesus said, “Go into all the world and make disciples.” So I’ve asked them to take the people that they’ve led to Christ and invite them, show them how to share the gospel and how to be starting discovery Bible groups. And so we now multiply.That is our next step is multiply. And I’ll tell you, it is exciting to see these new believers sharing their faith, starting Discovery Bible groups, seeing other people come to Christ, and this is how we’re planning churches. So then we move from multiply and we say, okay, in our church planning training day that we use, it’s called Church Planning Essentials from Dynamic Church Planning International, we ask them to begin getting a vision from God. We ask them to take multiple prayer retreats to go away and hear from God. It’s a core thing that’s missing in church planting and pastoring, prayer retreats, hearing from God, what’s his vision?

(17:00):
And in our next step, we help them to build a team to match the vision. So we haven’t even talked about church service yet. Have you noticed that? Most church planting focuses on launch Sunday. Jesus didn’t ask us to focus on launch Sunday. He asked us to focus on multiplying on making disciples.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:18):
Jesus always had launched the boats.

Pastor Gary Smith (17:21):
That’s right. And so, but in this step, we help them build out the team for the vision God has given them, whether it’s to reach multiple apartment complexes in a city, whatever it is. So we help them build out that team. My wife is the best coach for that. And then we say, all right, how do we help you scale this out? Because we’re supposed to be like a city on a hill. You notice I didn’t use the word launch. I’ve actually taken that out of my vocabulary because again, people have thrown so many resources at that, that they’ve forgotten that we are to be making disciples. This is where supposed to be in the harvest. Now, it’s not that I don’t like launch Sundays in church planning. I love worship services. I love preaching. I love worship, but let’s focus on what Christ has for us.

(18:00):
So we scale it out for them. And then the last one is health. We describe health as Acts one: eight. That’s how we see a healthy church. So we’re not talking about large numbers, small numbers. We’re talking about multiplying disciples being made. How do we get more of the gospel into the city? And then how do we start multiplying that beyond? In this process, I’m asking our church planters to be raising up their next church planters that’s either going to take over their church, they’re going to go out and do it again, or they’re going to send them out. I’m asking them to raise up pastors, but I ask them to do it the same way I did it with them. Is I meet you in Panera Bread. I meet you in Dunking Donuts. I meet you wherever you are and I call you out and I say, “You want to follow Jesus and fish for people.

(18:39):
” And sometimes I start into the gospel conversation because sometimes people have no idea what I’m talking about. It’s perfect intro because they’re like, “What are you talking about? ”

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:46):
That’s awesome.

Pastor Gary Smith (18:47):
Anyway, but that’s our step-by-step strategy.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:49):
All right. So give me the five words.

Pastor Gary Smith (18:52):
Follow. Follow. Multiply.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:54):
Multiply.

Pastor Gary Smith (18:56):
Team. Aim. Team. Oh, team. Yeah. Team. And then scale. Scale. And health.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:04):
Health. Health. Wonderful. And you mentioned you have three Ls of evangelism. What are the three Ls of evangelism?

Pastor Gary Smith (19:12):
So I go about it two different ways in the book, but the one I’ll tell you about today was taught to me by a First Nations, a Canadian Indian man. Actually, he didn’t teach him, but the Spirit taught it to me because of him. So I was going up to his village as the white man to go into an Indian village and to meet this gentleman for the very first time. He was the mayor in his town. He was a pastor in his town and he was a government leader in his town amongst First Nation people. So as I’m driving up to this village, the Spirit of God whispers to me Daniel, he says, Gary, don’t talk when you get there. I’m like, “What do you mean don’t talk when I get there?” I’m a preacher, pastor. All I know how to do is talk.

(19:54):
And I said, “Lord, did you just tell me that? ” And I really sensed that the spirit was telling me not to talk. So I got to his community, I found his house and I introduced myself, of course. I mean, I had to say something, and then I just went quiet. I didn’t know about First Nation culture, Daniel, and how that was such an honoring thing to listen rather than speak all the time. But for about two and a half days, I hardly said a word. And I was at his house and he told me, he said, Gary, he said, “I’m going to work with you. ” I’m like, “Well, I’m sorry, what do you mean? We haven’t even hardly talked about working or ministry.” He said, “You’re the first white man who’s ever listened to me. ” And so the spirit put that word in my spirit about listening.

(20:40):
And I realized that in most evangelism training, we teach people what to say, but we don’t teach them how to listen, how to listen to the spirit, how to listen to the heart of the person, how to listen to the culture that they’re in. Those three Ls and listen, listen, listen to the spirit of God. You see, the Lord Jesus had around 60 plus conversations in the gospels, but they’re all unique. Some people addressed hymns, he addressed some other people. They’re all unique, all these conversations. And so I say, “If you don’t listen, how do you know what to say?” And so I love the Romans row, by the way. I love all kinds of evangelism. I love what you talked about on one of your podcasts about using the chosen for introductions to the gospel. I think that’s awesome, Daniel. But I’m just saying, if you can listen, the spirit will give you cues as to where to enter in with the gospel, as to what to share with the person, as to what they need in this moment that’ll be the door that opens their heart.

(21:39):
And so I’ve trained a lot of people in the three hours of evangelism now how to listen. And it gets you so much farther with so many more people down the road when you’re just doing cold evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:52):
I actually agree with you a lot. I think one of the most powerful tools of an evangelist is listening. People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. And so by listening to someone, hearing about their problems, hearing about what they’re going through, hearing about their life, you show that you care. And then once you’ve earned the right to speak into their lives, then they’re much more open to hear what you have to say. So yeah, that’s really powerful. Absolutely. Awesome. Well, if you are listening and you would like to order Gary Smith’s book from Dying to Dangerous, you can find it on amazon.com and just type in from Dying to Dangerous, Gary Smith, and you can find the book. And I think it’s a great book. You should definitely go and get it. And then if someone wants to connect with you or find out more about your ministry, is there a good website that they could go to?

Pastor Gary Smith (22:49):
Yes. It’s thechurchplantingpathway.com.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:53):
The churchplantingpathwayway.com. And so I encourage you to connect with Pastor Gary and learn all you can from him. And just to finish up here, Pastor Gary, what word of encouragement would you give to other people who have a desire to plant a church, they want to be church planters, maybe here in the United States, maybe internationally. What would you say to those who are called to plant churches?

Pastor Gary Smith (23:24):
I would say to you, the spirit of God can empower you to be his witness and you can be his witness anywhere because it’s about what he is doing. And so he can empower you to do it and say, I would say go forth boldly and share the gospel. And I just want to say, Daniel, that I think this means to be one of the main things that we do in church planting today is sharing the gospel because there’s a harvest ready. There’s ripe fruit ready everywhere. I really believe it. And so I would say to you, go forth boldly sharing the gospel. Don’t be afraid. Don’t be timid. And the Lord will show you how to speak. The spirit said, I will give you the words. Open your mouth. I will give you the words to say. So trust him to do that. Let’s plant many, many evangelistically harvest centric churches.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:15):
Let’s just take a moment right now to pray for church planters across North America and around the world. I believe God wants us to plant hundreds and thousands and even millions of churches around the world. God is raising up his church. Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up everyone who is called to be a church planter. Lord, I pray that they would have boldness to go out and to share the gospel, to call people to you, and then to disciple people and begin to help them to get closer and closer to Jesus. Lord, I pray that you would raise up an army of church planters in New England, in North America, up in Quebec, all over the world. Lord, we pray for mighty church planters to be raised up that would have a massive impact for your kingdom in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Pastor Gary Smith (25:18):
Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:18):
One final word, Pastor Gary.

Pastor Gary Smith (25:21):
Well, Daniel, just thank you. Thanks for what you’re doing in the Ministry of Evangelism. And I just pray God will bless your work and your ministry so much, brother. And thanks for letting me be on with you. And again, if someone would like to connect with me, please do. I look forward to helping you in the harvest.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:36):
Awesome. Thank you, Pastor Gary, for being on the evangelism podcast.

 

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