1 877-431-4276Joseph Wilson | Persecution in India
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.
Connect with Joseph Wilson on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joseph.wilson.92372
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Joseph Wilson pastors in the nation of India. Recently, his church was burnt down by radical Hindus. Today we talk about the persecution the church is facing in the nation of India and about how he is reaching the lost despite the opposition.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:31):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Joseph Wilson from the Nation of India. Thank you for joining me today.
Joseph Wilson (01:08):
Amen. Such a wonderful time that the Lord has given me and I’m so honored, excited to be over here and to be part of this podcast. And I tell you, my life was so much transformed with this man of God and I say one of the reason for me to be where I am today is this man of God has spoken a word over my life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:32):
Amen. Well, how long do you think we’ve known each other? When was the first time that we met? I
Joseph Wilson (01:39):
Have met you in the year 2005.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:45):
Wow. So we’ve been friends for a very long time now. It’s
Joseph Wilson (01:48):
A long
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:48):
Time and at that time we were doing many gospel festivals in the nation of India. My wife and I have such a great love for India. My wife Jessica actually lived in the nation of India for almost two years, and then I’ve been going and talking to people about Jesus and it’s so amazing the nation of India, 1.2 billion people. It’s a huge nation full of people that need Jesus.
Joseph Wilson (02:22):
Absolutely. And now the recent census of our country says we are with 1.4 plus billion people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
And so India continues to grow.
Joseph Wilson (02:33):
It’s continuing to grow, and as it continues to grow, it is giving us a lot of challenges to reach the people where our nation is needed to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:43):
Now, the first missionary who went to India was the Apostle Thomas.
Joseph Wilson (02:50):
Apostle Thomas. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:51):
The same doubting Thomas who doubted that Jesus came back to life, but after he became convinced of the Jesus’s resurrection, history says that he went to India.
Joseph Wilson (03:04):
He went to the India. Yes, you are right. He came to India and to his amazement, there were so many rituals taking place and there were belief and there were system that was not of God. They were in search of God, but in many different ways. But when Apostle Thomas came, he knew the real God. So he made excitement and then he performed the miracles where the people encountered God first. Ever since then, the kingdom of God is getting established in India,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:38):
And there’s actually many different religions in the nation of India. You are multi religion, multi-ethnic groups. So you have Christianity, you have Islam, you have many, many Hindus, many, many Hindus. You have the Sikh religion, Jainism and many other religions,
Joseph Wilson (04:03):
Many other religion. What amazes us is India is such a huge country with such a big religion aspect. Everyone in India are devotees to God, but they have different religious to teach them. And there’s Hinduism, Muslims, Jainism, Sikhism, and I tell you there are very different groups as well in India with hundreds and thousands, to our amazement, 33 millions of and goddesses our nation. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Let’s talk specifically about Christianity because there has been a lot of persecution that has come against religious minorities and in India, Christianity is a minority. Do you know what percentage of India would follow Jesus?
Joseph Wilson (04:55):
The census says that it is closely to 3% out of 1.4 billion people follows Jesus. Now, when I say 3%, I don’t mean that everyone loves Jesus out of this 3%, there are Catholics, there are atheists, there are people who are far away from Jesus, but just a name. Take Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:19):
So some of the 3% are only Christians in name only. But there has come a lot of persecution recently against the Christian churches in India. In fact, I was just sitting down a few days ago with one of my friends who is a pastor from Manipur and he was telling me that many of the churches in Manpo have been burned. Even the houses of some of the Christians have been burned and the Christians have had to flee from the cities up into the hills and they’re in hiding.
Joseph Wilson (05:57):
Yes, they are in hiding. This was happening up in the month of May. This is planned way beforehand for the persecution, being honest with you all. There were so many things that happened. The churches were burned, you were right. Many people left the houses and their houses was burned and to management. There were many women who were raped, paraded, naked, and I tell you, there was no words spoken by the government in behalf of them to ask them to be protected. But these riots have taken place and this is making chaos in our nation. Let me tell you, this is not the first time that has happened in the year 2008. There is a state called Ora where the same thing happened and let me be honest, with the same kind of a government which was running the state at that time. So there is on and off persecutions that are happening up. Evidently what I could say is it started with the little, but now it’s getting bigger. Bigger and the worst.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:06):
That’s very sad. And it’s not just the churches in Manipur that have been affected by this. You pastor and your church actually was burnt. Tell me what happened.
Joseph Wilson (07:20):
Yes, with the vision of God that I moved from my native town to a new city, which is called Miser, which has 1.3 million people and hardly 120 churches in the entire city. And out of that only 2% of them are Christians and out of 2%, when I say Christian, there are only 0.5 people who believe Jesus, not even 0.5. So God with the vision I have been to the city with the family. We planted a church. Our church is three and a half years old and we pray to God, take us to the people where you want me to serve. And we never knew the city. We don’t know anyone in the city. By faith, we moved as a family and we started a church through a plumber who comes to us. His aunt was with the cancer and that was a good opportunity. He said to me, this is what the conversation, who are you?
(08:18):
Then I said, Hey, I’m a pastor, pastor, what do you do? Then I said, I pray for the people. You left everything to pray for the people. Then I said, yeah, why? Then I said, I would love to see happiness in the life of people. I love to see blessings in the families. That’s why I came. He was amazed. We exchanged our numbers. He goes back after two days he calls me, you said you pray for the people. My aunt is with the cancer. She’s diabetic. She’s on the deathbed. Would you come and pray? I said, I would come. We went there. I tell you, we prayed. She’s still alive. The Lord healed and they took us to three new Hindu families and that’s how the church grew in our house. We began our church at house. As we were growing to 28 people, the neighboring people began to complain against us.
(09:14):
They complained to the police and the men in the families were against us and they wanted to put us in a prison. So the police intervention and the group of people intervention, we were forced to stop our church at home. We stopped our church, we began to zero. Then again, we started the church. That’s what our life is. We are called to reach the people. So we began the church at home again after eight months, and then immediately God helped us to rent a building. We went there. We started the church. As we started again, the Lord started to do signs, wonders, healings. Then the church began to grow. Now I tell you, 80 to 85% of the people who come to our church never heard about Jesus before. They were Hindus. Now as the church was growing, we started our church in February, 2020. Then 2021, July the second. People were so angry against us because they tried to stop us, threaten us, but we were not. We went on to do the church. Finally they did. They burned our church because we were not listening to their threats. They burnt our church. We lost the sound. I tell you, we lost everything. Everything but
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:41):
All your musical instruments, the sound system, yes,
Joseph Wilson (10:44):
Chairs,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:46):
Everything was burnt.
Joseph Wilson (10:47):
Everything was burned to the ashes, everything was burnt and the same night the police came. Now that city is new to me. I don’t know anyone. When the police came, I expected them to support me because I was the one who is in loss. But the police, they were more than 20 plus people and they said, who are you? Then I said, I’m Joseph. The response from them were, are you a Christian? Then I said, yes. What are you doing here? Then I said, I have a music class. Then they said, music, no, you are doing something. That’s why people have set fire on you. You have done wrong. That’s why people are upset on you. Now you come to the police, we are going to file a case against you and you need to fight it in the court
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:34):
Or And the police, after your church was burnt, they came and said that you are doing something wrong.
Joseph Wilson (11:41):
Absolutely. I was mistreated by the police. They interrogated me for more than three hours.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:49):
Wow. It’s really sad because according to the constitution of India, you are supposed to have freedom of religion.
Joseph Wilson (11:58):
Absolutely. The constitution of our nation gives us all the rights to speak. We have a freedom of religion, freedom of speech, but yet because of the power and the abuse, you of power and because of to gain some popularity, people are always throwing stones against Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:21):
Wow. So what ended up happening with your church, you had everything burnt, so you had to close down for a little bit, and then what happened?
Joseph Wilson (12:32):
We needed to close down. The police were against us. The people were against us. We lost everything. And the saddest part was they wanted to take me to the prison. But that night I was literally feared, but I saw the invisible hand of God helping and protecting. Then the Lord helped me to come out of that night and the next day the wise thing I did was to leave the city and go to the city where I was born. So I stayed in that city for more than one and a half month away. Then we closed our church after the issue was closed down, I came back. I started to clean the church and began to restore the church. The issue was done, but God intervened in such a way. There was a person whom I came in contact and they spoke to the police officers telling that he’s our guy, so he’s doing good. So because of the political influence and the word that I received, the police were subjective to the command of the authorities, and that is how God led us to come out of that kind of a situation. But they burned the church. It took us five months to restore the church and we closed it. But by God’s grace in December the 2021, we opened the church again, but glory to beat God that we haven’t lost anybody.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:57):
Wow. And how many people are attending your church right now? Right
Joseph Wilson (14:01):
Now our church is three and a half years old. We are with 80 people in the church, and I tell you, 30 people, we baptized them and there are more than 80% of the people were Hindus who never knew Jesus before.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:18):
Wow. What a great miracle. And I have to commend you for continuing on in what God has called you to do even in the midst of persecution. I know it’s not easy, but one of the things in your testimony that you have shared with me was the impact of one message that I preached many years ago and you heard the message and ever since it has been one of the defining messages of your life. Tell me about that.
Joseph Wilson (14:50):
Absolutely. I cannot leave this program without speaking that word. In fact, before I could say that statement, let me tell about a brief testimony. I was going through terrible times in my life. I never had anybody to support me or to strengthen me or to be a friend. I was going through such a deep down life. I was broken, my soul was broken, my future was blinded, and I failed my education and I was the only son to my parents, huge expectations, and I was growing up. There was no future for me. And there was so many things I tell you, nothing was going my way. Neither nothing was happening. What I was planning to do, everything was chaotic. At that moment of time, I decided to die. I decided to commit suicide because I don’t have future. I don’t have vision, I don’t have anything in my life.
(15:56):
So what I did was when I thought to die myself, one word that changed my life was Jeremiah 29 11. One of my friends sent me a text at the time where I was wanting to commit suicide that says, the Lord has plans to prosper you, to give you a future and a hope. When I read that s I felt peace in my heart, and that’s the time I saw new things beginning to happen. Right after that transformation, I come to a crusade in 2007, November the 11th. I still remember November the 11th, and there were more than 500 people in the auditorium. You were speaking in a conference. I was sitting on the tro. You were speaking about obeyed Iam. You were speaking about his origin. It was so great. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:55):
So Obed Edam is an obscure Bible character, but his story will change your story and it’s one of the messages I love to preach. In fact, I wrote a book about it called The Secret of Obed Edem, and he was the guy that was living beside the road, which led to Jerusalem. And one day, king David decided to bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. And so they passed in front of the house of Obed Edam and a tragedy happened. A man fell over dead when he touched the ark. And so King David said, forget about taking the arc to Jerusalem, put it in that house right there. And he pointed to the house of Obed Edam. And so they carried the Ark of the Covenant where the presence of God dwell and they placed it in the living room of Obed Edo. And in first Chronicles 13, it says that the arc of God remained in his house for three months and it says that God blessed his household and everything that he, so when the presence of God came into his house, he was blessed.
(17:54):
And so when you invite the presence of God into your house, you’re going to be blessed. But his story does not end there. It’s mentioned seven more times in scripture and he becomes addicted to the presence of God. Edam follows the Ark to Jerusalem and he starts to serve in the house of God. He starts out as a gatekeeper in the temple, then he becomes a heart player in the temple worship group. Then he becomes a leader. His entire family is serving God. And then the last time he’s mentioned, he’s the keeper of the temple Treasury. So we see this great promotion in his life. His story didn’t end at the beginning. He continued on.
Joseph Wilson (18:38):
Yes. And that’s what when us speaking, that was fascinating. My heart got connected to the word, and I still remember as you were preaching intensely bringing the word, you saw me, and this is the turning point of my life. You saw me in the middle of everything you just said, Joseph, stand up. I was shocked. I stood up. And this is the word that you said. Your story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:09):
Your story is not finished yet. Not
Joseph Wilson (19:11):
Finished yet. I was so thrilled the moment I was thinking my story is over, I don’t have any life. That’s the time you said your story is not finished yet. And you said, the way the Lord has blessed, obeyed I, your life will be blessed. Get ready for the promotions. And I tell you, I began my life from that situation. And from then on, I hold it onto that word to that says to me, my story has not finished yet. This is just the beginning. And I tell you today, I still look around myself and say, my story is not finished yet. And thus the way that the Lord blessed my life and for the past 16 years, I’m holding that word which I wanted to die, but that word gave me a life. That word gave me the vision. That word gave me a family. That word gave me future. That word gave me ministry. That word gave me friends. That word gave me such a confidence. Whatever I am doing today, it’s that word that put a foundation for my great faith in Jesus
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:23):
Christ. And so even when it was difficult to start a church, even when your neighbors were complaining, even when your church was burned and you lost everything, that prophetic word from the Lord, your story is not finished yet has continued to inspire you and motivate you, and you have to seek after the will of God for your life.
Joseph Wilson (20:50):
Absolutely. That word made such a terrible transformation, I tell you as obey was blessed step by step. And you said to me the same way, Joseph, your life God is going take you step by step. I remember sitting down and I became a worship leader. God started to upgrade me, update me to a translator. And I tell you, I was sitting in this man of God’s crusades and God made me to lead worship for his crusades and also to translate the word of God. So I am the example of how a prophetic word when we receive gets true. And I am very honored that I received it through this man of God. And I am the true example of that word. Your story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:39):
Amen. Well, that is a tremendous prophetic word that I believe will continue to work in your life. Amen. Because Joseph, your story is not finished yet. God has more for you. And I believe that God has more for the nation of India. Let’s talk a little bit more about the persecution that has happened in India. The constitution of India guarantees religious freedom. In Article 25 of the Indian Constitution, it says, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess practice and propagate religion. And so that is enshrined in your constitution, constitution. And so India is the largest democracy in the world. They have many elections and they’re supposed to guarantee freedom of religion, but that often has not happened. Often militant Hindus have harassed, they oppress, they attack Christians, and they even make laws restricting the freedom of Christians. They attack churches, they persecute people who would want to convert from one religion to the other. And they even have kicked missionaries out of the country and they have shut the door that anybody who would want to talk about Jesus, they refuse to give them a visa. So in effect, there is not freedom of religion. And so what do you think the church should do in the face of this persecution?
Joseph Wilson (23:29):
This is very much interesting in the face of persecution the churches are really going through. But one observation that I have made as it in the Book of Acts, when such kind of a persecution are going through it is dividing who the real people who are called to serve. There are people who are going back. There are people who are struggling, there are people who are giving up, but there are people who are marching forward to do what God has called to do. Now among all these persecution, definitely every tongue in India are praying for God for miracles to happen. Now, one thing that persecutions are happening up is, I’m sorry to say, because of the government, because they back up the people, the vanity groups, because of their political gain, they use the groups to attack the church and they want to win the elections or be in power in the name of religion. So that’s the biggest optical the church is facing. But among these things, it’s very hard to confine our growth only to one thing. It’s a challenge. We are accepting in reality about the challenge, but still we are commended to preach the gospel and to reach the people. So that’s the thing that we are doing in spite of all the things what’s happening up around.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:06):
And many of the states in India have passed what they call anticon conversion laws. What are those?
Joseph Wilson (25:15):
My state? My state was ruled by the government, which is running the country now. When they were in power, they were so much against the Christians and the churches. They finally brought an anticon conversion bill. Now I need to tell this, this anticon conversion bill is so, so cruel. If I go and share my faith to someone else, if they don’t like it, they can go to the police, file a complaint against me, and I would be put in prison non bailable warrant. I would be in prison for more than seven years.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:00):
Just for talking to someone about your faith in Jesus.
Joseph Wilson (26:04):
Absolutely. Now, not only that, if I preach gospel to someone, if they get saved and they come to church, their whole family has the power to go to the police and say, Hey, somebody spoke to my son or my daughter, and they manipulated them so they can go and write a complaint against a pastor or an evangelist and they would be considered and the pastor or the evangelist or the churches would be put in prison. That’s the severeness of the law. We prayed. We prayed. But I tell you, God is so powerful in this year, in the month of May, 2023, the governments got changed. And the first thing the present government of my state has done is they have revoked the law forever.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:53):
And so in your state, in which state do you live
Joseph Wilson (26:56):
In? I live in the state of Karnataka. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:57):
In Karnataka. Now the Anticon conversion law is not on the books? No,
Joseph Wilson (27:04):
It’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:04):
Not on the books. But in some of the other states continues to, some
Joseph Wilson (27:08):
Of states still continue. I tell you, wherever the government is ruling the states, every state which is ruled by this government has been subjected for the Anticon conversion bill. And I tell you, it’s going to be hard if you run a church in a house, it is considered as illegal because you are getting people to your house and converting them. If you run a church in a rented buildings or the hotels, it’s not going to be considered as a church because that is a social gathering place. Now the government is bringing the law.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:43):
And then if you own the church, sometimes the churches get burned down.
Joseph Wilson (27:46):
Absolutely. If you own a church, they say, why are you getting people now? They are taking even the census of the church, how many people you have. After a year, they come back again and check the census. If they find out there are more number of people, they’re questioning who are they? How do they come to you? And if they come to church, the believers, they are cutting the access of provisions which are from the government for the poor people. That’s the saddest part. What’s happening up?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:20):
Wow. Well, we need to pray for the Church of India. I think even in the midst of persecution, it just makes the church to grow more and more and more because people will turn away from a hopeless religion to turn towards the hope that is found in Jesus Christ.
Joseph Wilson (28:42):
Absolutely, brother Daniel. We need our nation. Our churches need prayers to back us up. We need more prayers than ever before because we are in more danger than ever before. I say this word because from the politicians, the seed against Christians is now spread all across the nation where everybody are so passionate against the church and to see the end of the church or to see the destruction of church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:17):
Amen. Well, let’s finish by praying for the nation of India. You said that now the population is 1.4 billion people, a huge number of people, many who need to find Jesus Christ, the hope of Jesus, and to have the opportunity to be saved. So would you pray for the nation of India?
Joseph Wilson (29:41):
Absolutely. It’s my joy to pray for our country. We need prayer. We need Jesus. We need the kingdom of God to invade. And there is no greater power and strength than prayer. I would love to pray. Let’s pray. Dear Father, we thank you Lord for your unmerited favor and unconditional love towards us. Father, you are the same yesterday, today and forever. You love us the same. And Lord, we are here praying for our beautiful nation, India with 1.4 billion people. They need you, father. They need your kingdom. And we pray today how mercy on our nation, how your grace upon our nation, Jesus, let your kingdom rule and reign. We pray for all the people who needs to be saved because you shed your blood on the cross of calvary for the remissions of sins of every one. Oh God. And we pray that you would have mercy and grant salvation to our nation.
(30:56):
We pray whatever ways are being made hard to preach the gospel, that you will make a way for us to reach the communities, to reach the people. Lord, open the blind eyes to see you. Open the hearts to receive you. Father, let the word of God shine upon people and let people get saved. We pray for more people to serve you. We pray for the freedom of our religion of God. We pray for the freedom of our speech. We pray, father, that you would make roots to reach the people. And we pray for the politicians. We pray for the leaders. We pray for all the groups who are against your church. God, you transformed soul to Paul and that’s your power, and that’s what we pray. Transform the hard-hearted leaders and the politicians who are against your kingdom, who are against your gospel, and may your kingdom establish. Thank you for your saving grace and saving power. In Jesus’ name we pray, father. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:06):
Amen. Well, brother Joseph, I have a word from God for you. Your story is not finished yet. God has more for you.
Joseph Wilson (32:17):
Amen. I receive this word with joy and gladness, and I begin my journey again with a higher altitude of life telling to myself, my story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:31):
And so we are standing with you in India. We are praying for you in India. And I know that God will give us a great harvest of souls across the great nation of India.
Joseph Wilson (32:44):
Amen. I receive that. We believe that. And also I witness the crusades that you ministered thousands of people. What a joy was it for us to see you sacrificing your place in America, coming over there and preaching the gospel and ministering so many villages which never had Jesus before, never had church before because of you were yes to the Lord. Today. I see as a witness, there are hundreds of churches, thousands of people in the kingdom of God. And that’s what enlightens me, challenges me. When a man of God sacrifice and come to my country to speak. What am I doing? What are we doing? So your life is always an encouragement to me. Influence to me. And I tell you, words fail to describe how much impact you have created in me. One of the reason for me to go to the lost places and the lost people is you looking at the crus. That’s what my life has been in transformed. And here I’m as an example, doing what God has called to do. And that’s why again, I say my story has not finished yet.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:01):
Amen. Thank you brother Joseph. Are
Evangelism Podcast Host (34:03):
You called by God to be an evangelist? Do you want to lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and is seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give antar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you want to be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:05):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (36:25):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Mark Swiger | Reaching India with The Gospel
Between 1996 and 2006 Mark Swiger conducted more city-wide crusades in India than any other ministry. He preached face to face to millions of people and saw over half a million people turn to Christ. His television program “Healing for You Today” reached millions throughout Asia. Now God has given him a plan to raise up 300 evangelists who will impact the nation of India for Jesus.
Learn More: https://markswiger.org/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Between 1996 and 2006, mark swagger conducted more citywide crusades in India than any other ministry. He preached face to face to millions of people and saw over half a million Hindus and Muslims turned to Christ his television program “Healing for you today” Reached millions throughout Asia. Now God has given him a plan to raise up 300 evangelists who will impact the nation of India for Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:42):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith. They’re powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:07):
Welcome To the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, mark swagger. Thank you for in joining me today.
Mark Swiger (01:20):
Well, it’s wonderful to be here. My brother, I’m excited about what God is doing in this hour.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:27):
You have been an evangelist for many years, been really involved in helping to disciple people. And I know that you did so many events in the nation of India. How did you first get started as an evangelist?
Mark Swiger (01:48):
Well, I was pastoring a, oh, I guess it was, you’d say it was a medium sized church, a church of about 250 people in rural Maine, which was, it was a big crowd for rural Maine. And it taken us many years. I’d been pastoring for about over 15 years and, and we eventually got into a, a good size church and built it up. And I finally had a nice home and a nice family and swimming pool and the trappings that come with, you know, a little bit of success and right in the midst of that I the Lord gave me a dream, just a one minute dream in the middle of the night. And it changed my whole life in the direction of my ministry, but I saw a vision of a landscape and the Lord said memorize what you’re seeing.
Mark Swiger (02:44):
And so I memorized this landscape and the buildings and different things. And I didn’t know how, but I knew I was looking at the nation of India somewhere in India. And the Lord spoke just these words. He said, these people are among the poorest people on the face of the earth. And I think from that he imparted his heart, his love for the people into my heart. I think he was talking about more spiritual poverty than he was physical poverty. But when I, when I, before I saw the landscape, it was like two big black doors opened up and revealed this landscape. So I didn’t I knew it meant the Lord was gonna go open up doors to go to India, but I didn’t know what that meant. I didn’t know anybody in India. And so I knew that I just kind of put it on the back burner.
Mark Swiger (03:39):
I didn’t wanna try to make something happen. And about six months later, I got up, I was turned on the television. It was about two o’clock in the morning. And at that time, a relatively unknown evangelist was on his name was Reinhard Bonnke. I’d heard of him, but he hadn’t. He had only started doing the, the massive crusades that he was known for later, but I caught his television program. And, and suddenly as I was watching this to my surprise, the spirit of the Lord fell upon me and the Lord spoke, not audibly, but just of that, you know, that reverberating atmosphere of his, of his word, he said, do in India, what Reinhard Bonnke is doing in Africa. And I tell people, I felt like a five year old kid that, that the Lord said graduate from college tomorrow. You know, that’s how I felt.
Mark Swiger (04:37):
It felt like it was so impossible. I’d been pastoring, small churches, and to go into mass evangelism seemed like it was impossible, but I knew it, there must have been a way for that to happen. If God asked me to do it, it couldn’t be totally impossible. So I was going back to bed. Well, I decided to call the the one 800 number at the end of the program. I still remember it one 800. He heals. And that’s a good number. I Lord, if you, if you want me to get on do what Reinhard Bonnke, he’s doing, I gotta find out what he’s doing and how he’s doing it. So I figured next time he would come to the states. I would attend to his meeting. So I, I needed to get on the mailing list. So that’s why I called his ministry.
Mark Swiger (05:28):
The one 800 number and a nice lady, took my name and address. And I was on the mailing list and I was going to bed. It was now three o’clock in the morning. And my phone rang back and I said, who could be calling me at 3:00 AM? Somebody in the church must have died. And I answered the phone and a man said, did you just call Reinhard Bonnke ministries? And I said, yes. And I’m thinking, yeah, me and, you know, hundreds of others or thousands of others. And he said, why did you call? And I said, I didn’t wanna say the Lord just told me to do it’s doing in Africa. He would think I was crazy. So I just said, I called to get on the mailing list. And he said, well, next month, Reinhard Bonnke is going to be in India, doing a crusade in India.
Mark Swiger (06:24):
I said, I didn’t know. He went to India said, yes, he’s just started going to India. I said, well, who are you? He said, I am Reinhard Bonnke’s brother-in-law Dr. Ron Shaw. And he invited me to India and to be part of the team there. And so the, I went and attended the crusade and I thought I would carry bonks bags for about five years, you know, and learn what to do, but they didn’t need anybody. But I got a tremendous impartation at the pastor’s fire meeting. And they put me to work promoting the crusade in churches as part of the team. But long story short the Lord somehow did a work in my heart to where it seemed, where it seemed impossible to do crusades. It somehow seemed easy. And so the following year I began, I did six crusades back to back and over a couple of months period.
Mark Swiger (07:27):
And just the rest is history. I ended up doing 52 crusades, citywide crusades there in India. And I was on television throughout Asia for a couple of years. And by God’s grace, we did a, I don’t, I never did do what bonky was doing in Africa. We didn’t get up to that level, but by God’s grace, we were able to see crowds of a hundred thousand around in that level. But we we’d go to the unreached places and the smaller places, but I know I took a long time there to get that across, but that’s, that’s how I got involved in, in evangelism.
Evangelist Daniel King (08:06):
A 52 crusades in India is an amazing accomplishment. Of course, it’s really just a drop in the bucket. India has 1.2 billion people, and there’s such a huge harvest field there. But one time you shared with me a plan that God had given you for raising up evangelist in India, who would go village to village, and you had an entire plan for that. Yeah. Tell, tell me about that, because I think that that vision comes from God and there will come a day where it will come to pass in Jesus’ name.
Mark Swiger (08:46):
Well, you know, I, I wrote that vision down and sent it out to every major evangelist. It was called. I called it operation Fox fire. It was named after, you know when Sampson caught 300 foxes and the Lord showed me catch a hold of 300 evangelists, you know FY brand evangelists and get 300 and, and make 150 teams out of them and, and outfit them with the mobile crusade vehicles, trucks that turned into, you know, platforms with sound systems. And so I wrote the vision down. I sent it out to different all the different ministries and nobody would partner with me except I did get a letter back from Marilyn Hickey. And I, I mean, everybody was nice. They just were, you know, were busy and they didn’t didn’t feel led to help, but Marilyn Hickey said, write it down, make it plain though.
Mark Swiger (09:48):
The vision Terry is shall surely come to pass. And so I built the first mobile crusade vehicle and a dear brother a major ministry pledged 5 million to build the hundred and 50 crusade, mobile crusade units. And I was just getting, I was recruiting the 300 fire brand evangelists from all over India and in the different languages they speak. And I, I was, I was getting a, a school rented where we could train them, like in a military environment, you know, and I was gonna bring in the biggest names of evangelism to impart into the 150 teams. And all of this was in place. And I had left India for just a short time to go to Singapore. And when I tried to get back in, I was blacklisted and I lost all the equipment and I had vehicles and I had big sound systems and I had everything in place.
Mark Swiger (10:56):
And somehow I think they got word of my plans. <Laugh> the government of India did. And they blacklisted me and I’m still blacklisted. It’s been 16 years, but that one mobile crusade vehicle I built Daniel it’s been active all these years and going from village to village and seeing a harvest of souls, but I it’s still on my heart. I would love to see that happen. And you know, what really has blessed me is that Daniel NDA is doing something similar in Africa. And I know you’ve been involved in that, you know, in raising up those fire brand evangelists there. And so that really excited me to see that, but I, I don’t know at what point the, how long more the vision will tear, but I’m still ready and, and able, I’m still breathing. I’d like to see that happen before, before I go onto my reward. But that’s, that’s what happened to operation Fox fire.
Evangelist Daniel King (11:59):
Yeah. And I believe that that vision is a vision that comes from God and what comes from God cannot be stopped by man or by government. And so the God has given you the vision. And, and I think that that that vision will come to pass. I, I have seen with the evangelism bootcamp that Christ for nations is doing in Orlando, Florida. They’ve been raising up and training up evangelists who are going throughout Africa, and now many other parts of the world preaching the gospel. Amen. And I could see a school for evangelism in the nation of India. And of course it’s so needed. India has blacklisted, not only you some of my other evangelist friends have also been blacklisted. So I, I think it is so important to, to raise up evangelists from within India that can’t be kicked out. They have to sure. Keep them there. And, and you know, now with modern technology with zoom and we, we could have a school of evangelism even from a distance and be training up evangelism for India. And, and so though at Terry, it shall surely come to pass and
Mark Swiger (13:25):
Well, yeah, Daniel, I’m glad that you mentioned that because I’m getting kind of maybe a little bit long in the tooth here, but it just never dawned on me that I didn’t have to be there to conduct this school and training. And neither to you, you know, something we could do. I would just love you to be part of training those 300 fire brand evangels in India through zoom or online. And I think we could really still have an impartation into their lives.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:55):
Mark, you have seen so many miracles in your ministry, blind eyes, open deaf ears, hearing cripples, standing up and walking. What role do you think miracles play in evangelism,
Mark Swiger (14:10):
Miracles and signs and wonders are absolutely mandatory. You cannot possibly preach the gospel with any effect at all, or be effective as far as seeing people saved and, and affecting the multitudes. You cannot do it without signs and wonders and miracles. When Jesus sent them out, he sent them out into every city where he would self would go, and he told them to heal the sick cast out devils, raise the dead if necessary. And in other words, do what he would do if he were there. And that’s what Jesus wants us to do. The same thing. He’s the same yesterday, today and forever. He wants us to do the exact same thing he did. And we need to represent Jesus completely and fully, not a partial Jesus, but, you know, as they say, well, the real Jesus, please stand up. You know, we went, when I first started going to India they had 300 and 300 million gods.
Mark Swiger (15:15):
They, they say over there and I prayed, I cried out God, don’t let me give them 300 million. And one gods that cannot help them. I must represent the Jesus in his fullness, the Jesus, as he really is, and the heart and love and the power of Jesus and our word is not to be in word alone. Our gospel’s not in word alone, but in power and demonstration, it must be. And I tell everybody, don’t leave home without it. Don’t go on the mission field. Don’t attempt to preach the gospel. If you do not have signs following and the Lord working with you in this way in your ministry,
Evangelist Daniel King (16:00):
What comes next? I heard you’re going to Mexico for a crusade soon.
Mark Swiger (16:05):
Yeah. In November, I think it’s fifth, six, seven, and eight. We’re doing a crusade into Mexico, Mexico, which is about an hour south of Mexico city. And in our advanced work I heard it’s going excellent. And we’ve got over 300 churches in cooperation for those meetings so far. And even in the advanced work there’s been tremendous miracles happening in the churches following the man that’s doing the advanced work, promoting the crusade. So that’s what you wanna have. People will say my goodness, if the, if the advanced man does this, what will happen when mark shows up? You know, so <laugh>, you know, the, the, you need even have miracles in your advanced work. So that’s really why all the churches are getting excited already, even before the crusade, crusade and faith is rising. So we’re excited about that.
Evangelist Daniel King (17:06):
Let’s talk a little bit more about the 300 evangelists that God gave you the vision to, to raise up. And I, I, I think a lot about coaching evangelists, training evangelists, what are some of the principles that you think would be important to impart into those evangelists?
Mark Swiger (17:28):
Well, of course they need to have the relationship with Jesus Christ. I would say one thing very important in my own life too. It’s been to to have a prayer life and the importance of speaking in other tongues, this cannot be overemphasized in your devotional life. The apostle Paul said, I, I speak in tons more than you all. And there’s a reason why he need, why he did that. And he needed to, to have an effective ministry and have a worldwide impact as he did. And there’s just so many things that are necessary. So I try to, by God’s grace to speak in tongue of minimum of one hour a day, and that would be the minimum. If you can do more, do more, because it’s a level of prayer that you’re praying what God wants to happen, not just what you want to happen.
Mark Swiger (18:30):
Most of our prayer life, if you examine it, it’s us making a request for God to do this. Please do this, please do this. And we’re, we’re we’re kind of ordering God around. You know, who’s really the servant here. Who’s serving who w from our prayer life. And I began to see in the Bible, it says they serve God with prayers. And I realized, I, I wanna serve God, Lord. I wanna pray what you want me to pray, and I want to serve you in prayer. And I cannot overemphasize give yourself to that and it’ll make a tremendous difference. Be faithful in it. And you’ll have a tremendous difference in your, in your ministry and in your personal life too, is you serve the Lord in prayer, prayer, what he wants you to pray. And then you’re really serving him rather than him just serving you, fulfilling your requests. Amen.
Evangelist Daniel King (19:27):
<Laugh> amen. Well, if someone is listening and they’d like to learn more about your ministry or support your crusades, what is your website? So people can connect with you.
Mark Swiger (19:40):
Well, it’s mark swagger, M a R K, and then swagger like tiger. All one word, S w I G E R, mark, swagger.org or.org. And that’s all they need to know or Google mark swagger. And I usually come up number one in the Googles, cuz there’s not too many mark swaggers around.
Evangelist Daniel King (20:04):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast. I appreciate it.
Mark Swiger (20:11):
Thank you. My dear friend and powerful evangelist, Daniel King honored to be with you.
Evangelist Daniel King (20:18):
Amen.
Evangelist Daniel King (20:19):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the evangelism podcast on apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with king ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (21:38):
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Benny Moses | Evangelism in the Villages of India
Evangelist Benny Moses explains how he reaches people for Jesus in the villages of India.
Transcript:
Benny Moses (00:04):
My name is Benny Moses from Hyderabad, India. I’m an evangelist when I was very young, 20 years old, I, I don’t know anything about emissions. Some of them, my brothers, who came to my church, who was doing evangelism and asked me to join with them a couple of days, I took her off my work and joined with them, and I started to distribute tract and sell literature and share the gospel the way I know. But these brothers are enraged. Me. The Lord has called you for ministry. And I resent my job when I was 20 years old and joined with an, a mission organization and getting a training, how to share the gospel while I’m I’m doing my ministry. I attended a, a, a Koolaid where one brother from Australia sharing about the lost ones. And the Lord started to speak to me from a ation chapter, three words, 27.
Benny Moses (00:58):
And through that word, I confirmed the Lord has called me to be an evangelist. And I’ve been doing that one last 33 years, even though I was working with the different organizations as an administrator or leader, but still my heart was the least the lost one. Therefore I made a programs, not not to people to work to reach the last one in, in India. I I like evangelism in two ways. One is a personal evangelism. Another one is a house to house visa evangelism. Plus we can do open evangelism, some villages in India. I go to different churches and call the villages for two days of training program. And I train them how to share the gospel, how to share the testimony. And I divide them by two by two and send to the villages and they go house to house and share about the faith.
Benny Moses (01:51):
And the method I use is of five points. God man, sin, Jesus, and judgment. And you can explain full gospel using these five points and they will do they’ll go to house to house and share the gospel in this method and share the testimony also how they come to know the law. I went to a church and of course the pastor together, 15 ERs. After that training, I give them a goal for reaching five people for a year, each one, catch five. They went back to their re places. Along with the job. They start to share the gospel with the colleagues using these five points of methods and they want to, they started to come to the church and within three months, 45 people added to the church. And within one year around 75 people came to the church and one man as a pastor cannot bring these 75 people.
Benny Moses (02:50):
But when he trained 15 billers, they brought these billers to the church. A great revival and pastor was extremely happy about it. We have some opposition, some villages, even some houses, they won’t accept us. Some persons, they completely reject. They have a great misunderstanding that Jesus is not a Asian is a Western God. And therefore some places we have a great system. And if I do have full calls for Bible colleges, I cover 15 subjects, church planning, church growth, introduction to the gospel part is a message of gospel. The method of gospel, the qualification of evangelist, the how to get out of the fear and shy of sharing the gospel. Door-To-Door evangelism, personal evangelism, Ary, evangelism, literature, evangelism. And I covered this subject five days in Bible college. But if I do for <inaudible>, I do it for two days, that seminar is just for how to share the gospel.
Benny Moses (03:55):
They only need to know how to start, how to end, how to approach a person, how to begin sharing the gospel. Sometime people share their testimony in the beginning and share the gospel. Sometime after sharing the gospel, they share their testimony and they ask them to come to the church and people just to come to the church to listen the word of God, strain them these five methods points. They know how to share. Therefore, the shy is not there. Fear is not there because they know the methods. The most of them are, did not know the methods. Once they learn the method, they don’t fear. They say you have a life, which is God wants to use for your is glory. And you, now we can do it because boldness, because you know how to start an out end in that way, I encourage them.
Benny Moses (04:42):
And I tell them each believer call to be an evangelist because Bible says, go, Jesus said to his disabled, go and make a discipl. It’s not for only the pastor, but for every believer, everyone who knows Jesus Christ personally, they can share, but did not know how to start, how to end, but the methods help them to get rid of the fear and shine. The main things. The believers has a very negative idea that this share in the gospel is a duty of a pastor. It’s not my duty. Therefore I want to delete that thought from the mind and train them to share the gospel and they can do wherever they are placed. Maybe they’re government office, maybe in a private company, maybe they’re doing daily wages wherever they are. They can share the gospel. In that way, more believers can be trained and more believers can share the gospel.
Benny Moses (05:34):
In that way, the India can be reached train believers for evangelism. I made a program called beep believers, evangelism, equipping program, acute them for the evangelism, a equipping means, train them up. How to start, how to approach a person, how to share your testimony. And when they are, when we train believers, definitely without fear and shy, they’ll be able to win the souls. That is the main method I feel. And this person, because India has a lot of oppositions and lot of problems, we cannot have big, big Cru sets in India, but still we can have it. But I, I believe that more believers need to come for this ministry as not as a full-time ministry, but along with the job they can do it. Evangelism is the only best to work in a Christian work Christian ministry. You can do, you can do anything. There’s nothing wrong on that. But under, unless you see the last world, if you are not having a vision, your ministry has not success.
Benny Moses (06:46):
Success of your ministry is reaching the lost world. The Lord gave me a vision to start a mobile team. Well, team have one automobile vehicle with the Cuban of public’s addressing system, LCD projector for a film show, maybe little vessels for cooking. And they go to we can have a two people on the team. They go to a local church, maybe where there’s a 50 or 60 billers and they can stay in that in the church. Before beginning the ministry, I will go and train the billers, how to share the gospel billers. Evangel. Doesn’t make you in program and billers can join the team and go to different villages, go house to house person, to person and share the gospel evening. They can screen the film man of conversion, which acted by Indians and that through that movie, they can also come communicate the gospel for a day three to five.
Benny Moses (07:48):
Villages can be covered in a short time and per a month around 750 to 800 villages can be covered. If they work 25 days per a month, one year, you may have more than 800 to thousand villages can be covered. I, I, I only need a vehicle. The Lord provided me LCD projector. Maybe I will make it a sponsorship for a public addressing system. I do need a big system, a small system where we can cover a hundred to 200 people. That’s more than enough. Then we can buy some cooking vessels for buds can cook, but most of the churches will provide food for two people. That’s not a big problem. And maybe we need a gas money for a month to run. Then maybe we like to support $7,200 for two brothers who are serving the Lord with us. That’s my vision. If you have a vehicle new brand vehicle, 15 years, we can run without any much problem. I’m guaranteed that 10 years, we don’t need to do any maintenance. Therefore, we, we are safe on spending money with the short money we are reaching millions.