1 877-431-4276Mohammed Seid Ali | Muslim Becomes a Church Planter
Mohammed Seid Ali was born into a Muslim family and he was sent for Islamic training to Oman. Today he shares the amazing story of how God saved him. Now, he is a church planter. On today’s episode, we discuss his role in the church planting strategy of the Joshua Campaign. Their goal is to do frontier evangelism in the hardest to reach village areas of Ethiopia.
Connect with Joshua Campaign on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joshucampaignethiopia/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Mohammed Seid Ali was born into a Muslim family and he was sent for Islamic training Toman today. He shares the amazing story of how God saved him. Now. He is a Christian Church planner. On today’s episode, we discuss his role in the church planting STR of the Joshua campaign. Their goal is to do frontier evangelism in the hardest to reach village areas of Ethiopia.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:41):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I am in the nation of Ethiopia in the city of ambo and I have brother Mohamed with me. He is a church planter working with Joshua campaign brother Mohamed. Thank you so much for being with me today.
Mohammed Seid Ali (01:28):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:33):
So Joshua campaign is led by Per Akvist. He is from the nation of Sweden, but he’s married to an Ethiopia and it was originally founded by Karl Hargestam, who is another missionary from Sweden and they have done massive gospel crusades all over the nation of Ethiopia, but a very important part of following up on new believers is planting churches because in many places there are not churches. And so brother Mohamed is leading the church planting effort. Can you tell me a little bit about the strategy that Joshua campaign is using to plant churches here in the nation of Ethiopia?
Mohammed Seid Ali (02:23):
Thank you so much for asking me this. As, as you know, that, as you said, that Joshua campaign church planting department, as one of the department in Joshua campaign we have strategy and roadmap to reach the unre people nowaday. We are planting a church in third part of Ethiopia. It’s a region that’s totally UN rich area. The nation that’s Muslims nation. So Joshua campaign together, working partner with God love covenant church together. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:06):
So God’s love covenant church is a denomination. It’s a group of churches about how many churches are, are in God’s love covenant church
Mohammed Seid Ali (03:15):
Nowadays about 70 churches,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:19):
70 churches working, and you’re actively working to plant more. Yeah.
Mohammed Seid Ali (03:23):
So now just we are focusing in Eastern part of Ethiopia, just we are planning to plant 120 churches Eastern, just, we are focusing like 30 churches in five years. Next year, maybe we’ll, we’ll have 120 churches.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:44):
Wow. That’s wonderful vision. And so talk to me about how you are planting churches. I know that recently Joshua campaign has purchased some motorcycles. Originally. They wanted to purchase one motorcycle for a church planter and miraculously God provided enough funds to be able to purchase four motorcycles. So what are you doing with those motorcycles?
Mohammed Seid Ali (04:08):
Yeah just we are, we are doing with those motorcycles. We are going to visit the unreached area that not go or reach the car, the vehicles, you know, that’s why we use those bikes to go there and to visit and to serve the people group, especially in a remote area. So those full motor bikes still, they are not enough just we need more motor bike and car because as you know, that CHOP’s very wide country. So especially in Eastern part of Ethiopia, we need more motorbikes and car.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:53):
So you’re using the motorbikes to go into remote regions where a car cannot go. Yeah. Where there’s no other way to get there and you’re going, I’m sure it’s very bumpy. You’re going very far. Yeah. And there are no churches in these areas. Yeah,
Mohammed Seid Ali (05:13):
No churches no can car cannot reach the place. So we use those motorbike like valley. Sometimes it can be valley. It can be like, you know, mountains like that. So we use those bikes to resource people group.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:31):
So how many motor bikes in vehicles do you think are needed for the, the church planters in your vision? What would you like to see?
Mohammed Seid Ali (05:40):
Okay, now we like you, like, as you, as you know that we are, we have only four motorbike for the next five, six years. Maybe we need around 50 motorbike,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:54):
50 motorbikes. Yeah. And, and do you have church planters that are ready to take the motorbikes out and plant churches?
Mohammed Seid Ali (06:01):
Yeah, we already, we are now we have some around maybe 60 or 70 people that ready to train, guess we are, we gonna train them? We just focusing on them to send them out for the mission. So we need those motorbike for those guys for those missionaries.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:23):
And so these are truly unreached areas that they’re going to, how are you training these church planters? I, I know Joshua campaign has a Bible school. And then do you give them specialized training to know how to plant a church in an unreached area?
Mohammed Seid Ali (06:40):
Yes. Yes, we have. We, we just have training center and also we have Bible institution also. We are just building and focusing on that. Just, we also have like based in, adema called the city Adama. Yes. We have training centers there. So we gather them and we train them how to reach a people group, how to, you know, reach the unrich area. Then we will train them how to preach the gospel one to one and how to train and give follow up for the disciples for those who served. That’s our strategy. Sorry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:27):
I know that Joshua campaign has a beautiful piece of land right next to a lake. And the goal is to turn that land into a training training center for church planters and for missionaries, for people who are going out to the nation of Ethiopia. Right now they are putting together a plan to build dormitories and meeting rooms there. And it actually has a hanger for a helicopter. The goal is to have a helicopter there, to even get to the places where the motorcycles I cannot go. And so you’re truly on the front edge of evangelism. This is true frontier evangelism that you are doing now. Your name is Mohamed. What’s your full name?
Mohammed Seid Ali (08:13):
Okay. My name is Mohammed Seid Ali,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:18):
It’s. Now when people hear Mohammed, they immediately, they don’t think of Christian Church planter. They think of someone who is Muslim. Yeah. And, and, and so were you born in a Muslim background?
Mohammed Seid Ali (08:31):
Yeah, my, my family, they’re from Muslim background, my mother, my father they’re Muslim background. I also grew up from a Muslim in background and I started grow and I grew up with my family. Then suddenly I went to Yemen and I start, I had started growing school there in Yemen. So one day, you know, I met a guy and he told me that my friend do you know Moham? There is Christians missionary here. They are working here. So they are preaching gospel here. So I was very jealous. How can be like that? I don’t believe I’m shock. And so I told my IAM, the leader of the mosque and he also, he became more nervous and how it could be like this. Then he told me to go and check and survey if they, so when I go there, the place where the Christians living the place, they were missionary, they were missionary, but they are giving like volunteers, they have a hospital and they give free volunteers service for the people.
Mohammed Seid Ali (09:45):
So, but underground, they preach gospel. That was their mission. So I, then I went there and I met the guy. So the guy I asked him, who are you? Yeah. He also told me that, who are you? Then? I told him that my, my name is Mohamed, but I heard that there is some Christians working here. So he said, he asking me that, do you want any help that, yes, I’m Christian. Do you want any help? I say, I, when I saw him, he’s just young. He looks very good, handsome. So I don’t believe you are a Christian. I felt that Christians are like, you know, demon or something like that. You know, finally he touched my shoulder and something is shocked. My body, maybe demon or some spirit. So I felt deliverers, you know? So he took me somewhere and we said together, invite me coffee, some other things.
Mohammed Seid Ali (10:43):
And he said to tell me about Jesus. So he’s the best missionary he’s trained missionary. He told me about Quran. He took some verse from Quran. He build that word according to the grand. So it was excited. He, he told me that he taught me, oh, I create heaven and earth. You believe that? Yeah. I believe that that’s also written on the ground and create element Ave. How in Adam? Yeah. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah. And finally, he, he, he mentioned a lot of Bibles qu and Bibles, you know, together. Then finally he took something from the Bible about Abraham and his son. God told him to kill his son. So do you know that? Yeah, but he’s not his it’s, like I said, that it’s a smell. Okay, come on. No problem. He said, he told me that. Okay. But you know why, what the purpose that God, you know, told Braham to kill his son.
Mohammed Seid Ali (11:47):
I don’t know that. Then he revealed that the main, the court things, you know, so he said, God also loves us. You know? So he, he send his son, Jesus Christ and he die for us, you know, finally. Oh, that’s why he, God, he send Jesus to die for us. Whoa is excited. Oh, that’s why I regard saying ISA. He told me a lot of things. Also, he, he mentioned from the Quran also about Mary, about mayor Maria, you know? So, so he told me about him also. And also, you know, God, he, the world by his, the world by his word, do you believe that? I say, yeah. Also in the ground, that reason Jesus, he, the word of God Killah, he said, yeah. So God, he create a world by his word. That was, is, that was Jesus. Oh, that’s another revelation I get.
Mohammed Seid Ali (12:53):
Okay. Finally, he took me a lot of things. Then I went to the mosque, but I can to tell that what I, what I heard, what I finally, I decide to fly away from that mosque. Then I went somewhere. Then I got house rent. Then I, I got one, God, he provide another woman that she’s a Christian. Then she’s sure my neighbor one night, you know, I was sleeping. That was the amazing thing. God changed my life. I was sleeping in my room. I felt, I saw the, the dream. You know, that dream was, you know, I was sleeping. Then I, I was going to fish a fish. Then I went to the lake. Then I tried to cut a fish, but it’s not a fish. It’s the Lake’s totally dark. Then I saw a man, a white guy. He’s very nice gentle guy. I say how, how it could be like that. This is, this is, you know, dark leg. It’s not, it’s not, it looks not looks good. So why it happened like that? Then I took that person to somewhere. Then I back again, I got a lot of people there from that dark leg. Then I wake up
Mohammed Seid Ali (14:22):
The next day that woman, the Christian woman she’s fixing coffee. And she invited me to drink there. Some Christians fellowship, they have there. So there was talking about their dreams immediately. The dream that I saw yesterday night, it came in my mind and oh please, can you hear me? I got some dream in my it’s yesterday. Oh, everybody’s quiet because I’m a Muslim. Then they start to hear were my dream. I start to talk to them. Then the woman, she said, hallelujah, that I heard that voice. The first time hallelujah said, she start to pro in my life. Mohammed, I’m telling you now from this day, I’m telling you you’ll be the disciple of Jesus Christ. I’m telling you, like she took some Bible verse, you know about Peter. And he was like fisherman. He told, you know, he start to fish. He went to fish.
Mohammed Seid Ali (15:22):
But God told him that yo, you will be a fisherman. A man. You will then, oh, is there in the Bible? Yes. She took the Bible and she, she, she showed me that. Then I say the dream that I saw and it’s completely the same. Then I say, what can I do? She told me, okay, now you have to bow down. Then stretch your hand and say like this pray. Okay. I saw her and she told me everything. She told me then, okay. I will come back waiting me. Then I went to my room. I bow down there and I stretched my hand. I start to pray. Thank you, Jesus. Now I believe you. Yes, you are. Lord. You are my savior from this. I decide to receive, you take all my life. Then I decided, I don’t know the same nights. I got peace in my life.
Mohammed Seid Ali (16:22):
Then I went back to Ethiopia immediately. So I had a lot of suffering. Of course, after I decided and received, Jesus just rejected me from the fellowship and the Muslim fellowship. They rejected me from the community. And finally they deport me to Ethiopia and I made some friends here and they took, they took me to the church and I, they baptized me. Finally. I made per west, I, her to drive by. And he, he came to my by judge. And he told me about Jesus. Yeah, I’m believer. I said, but he start to, he invite me to in his house. Then he invite me, my wife and me together and his house lunch. Then he start to pro my, you have a calling in your life just, oh, it was, it changed my life. You know? Then I decide. Then he said, now you, you have to work with me. You have to, what, what can I, what, what can I work with you? He, he told me that, okay, now you’ll be my interpreter, my translator. I don’t speak English. I said, okay, no problem. I give you dictionary and Bible that encouraged me. Then I start work with him. And finally just, I became,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:48):
Oh wow. And now God has made you a church planter. Yeah. And because you come from a Muslim background, yeah. You have a great heart for reaching Muslims here in Ethiopia. Are, are there many Muslims in these community where you are planting the churches?
Mohammed Seid Ali (18:04):
Yeah. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of people’s there are Muslim in, in the community. Just, we are now focusing on because we now train a lot of from like, as I told you that we have so churches in west Western part of Ethiopia. So we took some leaders from there and will train them and we will send, send them the Muslim community because the Muslims they need practical and life and love, you know? So just, I, my, my vision and my strategy is to teach them how to reach the Muslims. You know, just, you have, God has a strategy for the Muslim different strategy for the Muslims to reach, you know, so that’s my goal to train and send my, a lot of missionary in the Muslim area.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:55):
Wow. That’s amazing. Well, if you have a heart to help reach unreached areas in Ethiopia, frontier evangelism, if you have a heart for planting churches among Muslim areas in Ethiopia, then I want to encourage you to start to support Joshua campaign on my webpage. I’m going to post a link to where you can get in touch with pair office and with Joshua campaign Ethiopia, and you can help to support the ministry. We need help by buying motorcycles for church planters. We need somebody to give us a car yeah. To help with the church planters. Yeah. We need help to build dormitories for the Bible school and for the, the church planting Institute that is being planted. And, and so if, if you feel like God is speaking to you and you want to help to reach people who need Jesus in the most remote areas, the very front lines of gospel evangelism that I encourage you to support Joshua campaign and be a part of this amazing miracle of what God is doing here in Ethiopia, brother, Mohamed. It is so wonderful to hear your story. You have such a beautiful testimony of what God has done and, and you are now very well educated. You’ve done your, your master’s degree in Christian leadership, and now you’re working on your, your PhD. And so God is using you in such tremendous ways. And, and God has more for you. I believe that you will see many churches planted and you will see a great harvest of souls here in Ethiopia in Jesus name. Thank you. Thank you for being on the evangelism podcast.
Mohammed Seid Ali (20:40):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much that inviting me in this Evangeline Broca B thank you that also to support and stand with, with us, with this ministry, as you say that we need car, we need also you now to reach the Muslims like 500, 600 kilometer from Ababa. So we need Madras. We need a lot of dormitory, a lot of things, you know, to go to reach those area. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:13):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and we could not preach the gospel without your help. Over our years of ministry, we found that we’re able to reach one person for Jesus, for every dollar that people give us. And so that means that if you would give us $1, we could start a party in heaven. In fact, I’m asking people to join our partnership program and give at least $1 every single month to help us to lead more people to Jesus. This is the greatest investment of your dollar that you can make. It’s the only investment that’s gonna matter 10,000 years from now. So if you would like to help us lead people to Jesus, please visit king ministries.com K I N G king ministries.com and help us lead people to Jesus today. God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:14):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Come back for more episodes of The Evangelism Podcast with Evangelist Daniel King.
Oladele Isola | Muslim from Nigeria Becomes a Pastor
Pastor Oladele Isola was born as a Muslim in Kaduna State in Nigeria. But now he believes Jesus is his Savior and Lord. On today’s podcast he tells us about how be became a believer in Jesus.
Please subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast with Evangelism Coach Daniel King.
Transcription:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Oladele Isola was born as a Muslim in Kaduna state in Nigeria, but now he believes Jesus is his savior and Lord on today’s podcast. He tells us about how he became a believer in Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:17):
Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall C. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith. They’re powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:52):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus on today’s podcast. I am joined by pastor deli from not India, but from Nigeria, Pastor Deli. (Oladele Isola) Thank you for joining me today.
Oladele Isola (01:12):
Thank you, Reverend King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:13):
It’s so wonderful to have you with me. And we want to talk about what God is doing in your life. You have come from Nigeria here to the United States and you have been going to Bible school at victory college. That’s right. And then you have been Atma the last few years. Tell me some about how you ended up here in the United States.
Oladele Isola (01:43):
Yeah. very briefly I was serving in the church where God privileged me to start in the Eastern part of my country, Nigeria, which is called a Saba in Delta state. And we started a work there in the year 2013. And after about two years when the church was growing appreciably I got a lead to, to come to the United States and got opened the door for me to attend the Bible school here. And so here we are to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:23):
Day that’s so wonderful. Now in Nigeria, you were actually born in a Muslim fam family’s and you grew up as a Muslim, but now you are Christian that’s right. So tell me, how did that happen? How did you become a believer in Jesus Christ? Oh, well,
Oladele Isola (02:44):
I, that was when I was about 25 years old. I just finished high school. We call it you know, secondary school in my country, Nigeria. And at this time in the family, I had a, a kind of a freedom of choice because in my family, you had no choice other than to follow the religion of your parents and grandparents, you know, especially that my grandfather was in ALA and a very strong and disciplined one. So at that time of my life, I, I put the Quran side by side with my Bible and I discovered some things about Jesus Christ being the way, the truth and the life, which was contrary to what Muhammad said. And at one time I was almost confused, but later on, I got convinced that this is the way I needed to follow. So that’s how I became a Christian. And also because Evan made that decision. I began to encounter people who preached to me often and in the bars, traveling to Lego state at one of my, you know, periods of vacation. I met a brother from the poly technique who preached in the bus and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:05):
He, so there was a guy. Yeah, you were, you were driving in the bus. Yeah. A long trip. That’s right. And a guy stood up on the bus and began to preach to preach. Yeah. And
Oladele Isola (04:14):
He did that a lot in my country. Yeah. And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:16):
And so what did he say about Jesus that, that pricked your
Oladele Isola (04:21):
Heart? Well, like I said, he began to say things that I had known before about Jesus having read, you know, throughout my school, days in the Bible you know, about Jesus being the way, the truth and the life being the savior, the one who can, who has come to save us for my saints and all, all of that. So I, I, I was, I was persuaded in my heart hearing him preaching that boss and with the boldness and confidence that he said, I, I knew that in me, I needed Jesus. So I gave my life to Christ and he began to follow me up because he showed up in my house about two weeks. I, after, when we lighted from the boss, I didn’t see him again. But two weeks after that, he came back, you know, to visit me at home. And from then on, he began to follow me up. So, and then I, I had no choice, but to fully surrender my life to Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:19):
So later you became a pastor and actually planted a church in Abuja, Nigeria, which is the capital of the nation. And in the nation of Nigeria up north, if I understand correctly, there there’s many Muslims. And then down south, there’s more of a, a Christian pop, but Abuja is kind of where the two sides meet. You have both Muslims and Christians there. So tell me, what did your church do to reach out to people and tell them about Jesus in your area? Oh,
Oladele Isola (05:56):
Well, we first off I was under a ministry when I was privileged to plant that church in another area, because there were so many branches being planted at the same time. So the area where I was sent to what we did was that we reached out to people in the neighborhood, like in that area, we had lots of prostitutes, people who were like, you know, and then so homeless people. So I haven’t stayed there for about three months trying to see how do we reach out to these people? So myself and my wife, we came up with some idea after praying that we need to go to
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:36):
Them, where are, because we can’t just stay in church and be giving out flyers, maybe at the entrance, expecting them to come. So we needed to go there into their brother. So we went there to meet with the head of the, you know, the prostitutes. And then we told them our intentions and we bought some gifts, you know, to brushes, we packaged some food items just to reach out to these people. And that, that was like an encouragement to them. And that made us to witness some few tens of handful of people that came to church to following Sunday. So what are some of the ways that you, your church would go outside the walls of the church? I think what you’re saying is absolutely correct. The church. Can’t just wait for people to come in the doors of the church. They have to go to them fish. Don’t usually jump in the boat. You gotta go catch the fish and bring them into the boat. So, so what are some of the ways that your church reached out to people in your neighborhood?
Oladele Isola (07:41):
Yeah, like I was trying to say, we look at the needs in the, in the community, in that neighborhood after starting them, after doing the kind of survey or interview with people on the streets. And once we know that, then we go back to church. We pray together as a team, we, we consider ways of, you know solving and meeting their needs because Jesus also met the needs of the people. And that’s why they were able to follow him. In fact, the hungry people with, with you know, with food and, and they were, they were able to follow him after he had preach of them. So that’s one of the strategies in which we use. We, we talk to the people and then we go out there to, to actually distribute, you know, what they need to them. And of course that’s what people need. And once they hear that, they’re able to hear your gospel. You, you give to them. And then the, I mean their need. And then they also vision, which is the primary need of their lives. They listen to you. So I haven’t met their needs, they’re able to listen. And then they come to church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:52):
You’ve been here in the United States going to Bible school. What are some of the lessons that the holy spirit has been teaching you? What, what is the message that has been burning in your heart?
Oladele Isola (09:07):
It’s it’s just about souls. The world need people who compassionate for the loss, because what I’ve seen here is that people are too how will I put it? They’ve grown like lethargic to the gospel. And it’s like, it’s not reaching them because of comfortability. But I know from what I’ve seen, that many souls are hungry and they’re actually need Jesus. And so we need to, to just not talk about any other thing, but Jesus, as the main thing, that’s what they need here. They don’t need, like I’ve just said earlier on the needs of the people, what they need is not food. Food is not their problem here. It’s not some other, other, other stuff, but they need to present Jesus. There there’s something in the souls of men here that have discovered, you know, once Jesus. And once that is, once you hit that point, you see, most of them brought crying because you have actually touched what they need in their soul, the void in their soul which is Jesus.
Oladele Isola (10:24):
And that’s, that’s only Jesus. That can feel that it’s not what you’re gonna give to them, because they’re not much after what you can give to them. You can’t lay people with money. You can’t, it’s unlike many other African you know countries or other continents where you use you know, meet their, their needs. And then you can easily reach them. But here, the lesson of learned is that you actually need to talk to the souls of man by preaching Jesus. Jesus is the man. He said, the man, Jesus. So once you, he, that, I mean, you see salvation is the result.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
Jesus said, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men onto me. Exactly. And so you were born as a, a Muslim, but you got exposed to Jesus. You, you told me that you actually had gone to some Christian schools as a, a young man and, and they, they taught you praise songs. You, you began to hear about Jesus. What was it about Jesus that really attracted you?
Oladele Isola (11:31):
Wow. You see, like I was saying earlier on, there is something that Jesus feels inside of a man, which is eternal. It’s spiritual. You can’t, you can’t explain it. There is no other teacher, no other religious leader, no other person on earth that ever was that can feel that gap, that longing in any man. So in answering your question, what it was that, that attracted me, that made me kind of is, is part of the teaching. She said, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. I, I be began to, I was exposed to the truth from, from kindergarten. I went to St. Burnett’s private school in Abel. I went to African Joe grammar school in the same Abel. I went to McJob grammar school, all these are Christian schools and they exposed me to the Bible. And in my CRK I was score like almost a hundred, you know a, I was Aing all of this.
Oladele Isola (12:32):
So I grew up with the knowledge of, of, of, of, of, of Christianity and about Jesus, especially Jesus hearing songs about Jesus singing, songs of praise on the devotion, in the assembly about Jesus painting, a picture of him that died on the cross to save my sin, me from my sins and, and me, she in his blood Pictor I could, I could see him there and that was it. And there was no other person that, that could do that. And in my heart, I believe something opened up in me. And then that’s that’s it. I just decided this is the way I must follow him.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:11):
Often when people choose to follow Jesus, us, there is a price to be paid. And when you became a believer in Jesus, your mother was very unhappy that you had started to follow Jesus, very angry. Tell, tell me about that. How did that affect your relationship with your family?
Oladele Isola (13:31):
She was not only unhappy. She was angry. I mean, what did she say to you? She, she disowned us. I mean, when, I mean us, myself and my younger brother, his name is Samsung. I mean, two of us were born again almost at the same time. And we brought that light into the family, every other person, they were, they were Muslims. I tell you of one very, you know, quick account that, that just came to my mind right now. I went for crusade, a meeting at redemption camp along the Legos, IBA expressway. They called it God end time army conference. And after that program, I can’t remember the year vividly. Now I came back and I said, okay, let me pass time at IBA, before going to a BECU you know, back home. So I stayed with my cousin, my cousin, he was living with his dad and his mom.
Oladele Isola (14:23):
They were all Muslims on Friday when I got there. His name is Rashid, but now I think he has changed his name. Rashid went to mosque on that Friday. When I got there from the camp, I bunked in his room, I stayed there. I was doing my thing. I never spoke to him. I never did anything, but they already knew by now that I was a Christian and I was coming from a conference. So I, like I said, I didn’t preach to him. So he came back and he saw me reading my Bible and all that stuff. So I just told him, I said, do you know that whatever it is you are looking for out there, Jesus had much more that Jesus is the one that feels all, you know, is the creator. He knows. He was like, he was looking at, and then I was, I teaching one or two songs that I came with from the conference by Saturday, he went out to the neighboring places and saw, you know, there are all these small, small areas that people, they just read.
Oladele Isola (15:24):
Some wooden stands for crusades. So he went there and he had a little of the gospel by Sunday. Rashid was in church. And when the father came, the man was angry because I was at home, Rashid himself, went to church and came back in the reign, the Bible that I was reading, he did under his shirt. He didn’t want the Bible to get wet. And the dad asked him where you, you coming from? He was angry at this time of the night because the crusade cruise in the night, he said, he’s coming from fellowship. The man said, what is fellowship? Which of your friends name is fellowship? I was almost laughing. And then from there on that boy gave his life to Christ. They called me names. They called the family meeting over me. That’s what I’m saying. It wasn’t easy. My mother has to come from a BECU to sit in that meeting.
Oladele Isola (16:19):
The man said he was going to shoot me. He was going to poison his son and kill himself. If his son does not renounce that Christianity or that Jesus, that that happened from Friday to Sunday. So that’s how it was. So we settle that. I left their home. And when we got back to my place, my mom continued and said, did you see the shame that you have brought us? And then she disowned us, disowned me because my brother will always go with me. She disowned us. And then I was to go for youth service. Then she said, I should go and meet my Jesus to sponsor me. And that’s how I went. So I faced a lot of persecution. It’s not easy being a Muslim, turning a Christian. And in that kind of family setting. So it wasn’t easy. There’s so much, so many other aside to the story, but for time sake, let me just cut it short there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:10):
Well, thank you so much for sharing that. What would you say to someone who is trying to make that decision of whether they should follow Jesus? How, how would you talk to them and tell them that they should follow Jesus?
Oladele Isola (17:27):
Oh, I would tell them that they don’t have to fear that they should just be wrestling. They should follow their heart. If they have a personal belief in Jesus, that he’s their savior because that’s where it starts from. God knows how to protect them from persecution. He did for many before me, he did it for me. He would do it for them. They don’t have to fear persecution. This time around there is no cult, no medicine or jazz. Like they call it no Juju, no caustic power, no power of darkness can overcome them moment. They accept Jesus and believe in him and his power. They should leave the rest to God. God knows how to protect his own. He will shield them. That’s all I will say. I’ll tell them to be resolute, to be confident in their decision.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:24):
That’s wonderful. Well, I know that God is using you to bring men, need people into his kingdom. My brother, my pastor. Thank you. Thank you so much for being a guest on the evangelism podcast. It’s so good to have you here. Thank you king.
Oladele Isola (18:39):
Thank you I’m please. I appreciate it. God bless you. Oh, bless you too.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:44):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, our ministry is support by people like you, who help us go to the nations to preach the gospel? Our goal is every soul. It only costs us an average of about $1 for every person. We’re able to tell about Jesus. And so could you do me a favor, go to my website, king ministries.com and become a part with us for as little as $1 a month, you can start to partner with king ministries and help us lead. At least one person to Jesus every single month. Imagine for $1, you can start a party in heaven every single month. So right now, go to king ministries.com and partner with us and help us to preach the gospel to those who need to hear the gospel. The most, the least reach people in the world. Also, I’d like to ask you to go to apple podcast and give the evangelism podcast a five star re view your positive review will help other people find this podcast who are excited about evangelism. Thank you so much. And God bless you
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:03):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit king ministries com again, that’s king ministries.com.
What Do Muslims Think About Jesus?
What are the differences between Islam and Christianity? What do Muslims believe about Jesus? Where can we agree with one another and where do we disagree? Today I speak to a Muslim from Afghanistan and we talk about the Five Pillars of Islam, the Christmas story in the Koran, and about what Muslims really think about Jesus Christ.
Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today. Our ministry is helping Afghan refugees resettle here in the United States. The Afghans need houses, transportation, education, and many other things in order to succeed in this nation. If you want to help an Afghan refugee you can do so by making a donation here.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
What are the differences between Islam and Christianity? What do Muslims believe about Jesus? Where can we agree with one another? And where do we disagree today? I speak to a Muslim from Afghanistan and we talk about the five pillars of Islam, the Christmas story in the Quran, and about what Muslims really think about Jesus Christ. Jesus
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:28):
Said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls in the name of the Lord shall be say, Welcome to the evangelism podcast, Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:02):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And I go to many different Muslim nations around the world and nations that have many Muslims in them. And I always love meeting Muslims. Muslim love me, and I love Muslims. And so often when we go to a different country, I will have a meal with the local imams. We will invite the, the imams from the local mosques together and have a meal together and I’ll sit down and talk with them and they will talk about what they believe as Muslims. And I will talk about what I believe as a Christian, and it’s always a wonderful time of, of, of fellowship and, and talking together. And so today on this podcast I have with me, a friend who happens to be a Muslim. His name is Tayyab, but he’s known as T. He is from the nation of Afghanistan. And if you want to hear the story of how he arrived here in America, you can listen to the previous podcast that we put out yesterday. But Tyab thank you so much for joining me today. Hello, Mr.
Tayyab (02:22):
Daniel King. It’s been and honor to be on this podcast once again.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:26):
Well thank you for, for being here and you are a Muslim, is that true?
Tayyab (02:31):
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:32):
Am Muslim by faith. You’re a Muslim by faith. And so many of the people who are listening to this podcast maybe they don’t really know that much about Muslims or about Islam. Could you just start at the very beginning and kind of tell us, like, what is Islam, what does it mean to be a Muslim? What does the word Islam mean? So
Tayyab (02:53):
As a quick overview of the Islamic faith, the word Islam means peace and Muslims are followers of prophet Mohammed who we believe is the most important individual in our faith. We believe in one, God, our God is a law and the Muslims are okay. Devout Muslim would be known for following the five pillars, pillars of Islam. The first being Profession of Faith (shahada), which is basically saying there is no God with a law and prophet Muhammad, this messenger, the second being Prayer (salat). So, which is prayer. We pray five times a day, third being Alms (zakat), which is arms as in, we give charity to different individuals, people of need at a specific amount of a person’s income and fourth, Pilgrimage (hajj), which is our pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia, in the city of Mecca. We have a house that we believe is a holy place known as Kaaba and a Muslim is required.
Tayyab (03:49):
This pilgrimage throughout his entire life and fifth. And lastly is Fasting (sawm). We have the holy month of Ramadan. That’s a 30 day fast and Muslims try to be the best version of themselves. And just to remind them what is important about life. And we fast from mourn, from sunrise to sunset, and it’s just a spiritual month where we connect with one another and help try to help people around us. And it’s just being a Muslim is just an individual that to meet the principles of Islam as the five pillar of Islam mentioned, it just tries to be a good human being.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:27):
So explain to me the profession of faith it’s there is no God but Allah…
Tayyab (04:36):
Prophet Mohamed is, is his messenger.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:38):
Okay. So kind of explain that and why saying that is what makes you a Muslim? So
Tayyab (04:46):
A, it’s almost like a acceptance of faith. It’s a statement of faith where you say, which means there is no God, it is your acknowledgement of that. There is only one God, and his name is Allah and Moham. It is prophet Mohamed. That is his messenger. As in he’s the individual, the prophet that gifted us with our holy book, which is the Holyoke Quran. And so we believe that prophet Mohamed was gifted with the Holyoke Quran through a period of think 20 years, believe don’t quote me. I might be wrong <laugh> but he was our messenger and he was gifted. The, the holy words that are divine words of God at Mount HIRA through the angel Gabriel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:33):
So how has being Muslim influenced your personal beliefs? Like what does that mean to you on a personal level?
Tayyab (05:42):
On a personal level? Faith has been a fundamental of who I am as an individual. As an Afghan have lived a very unique life per se. It’s been a very difficult life, but I’m grateful for what I have today. And by having faith and being a person of faith, I found purpose in my life purpose in helping other people purpose in following the path that God ha that God has for me finding my purpose within God. And within this life, it’s made life meaningful, made family meaningful, made each interaction meaningful. It’s given me a purpose in my life, Mr. Daniel, and I’m very grateful for faith. It’s a point where I have been able to always return to, to God, no matter what the circumstances have
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:24):
Been. And so how are you doing at being a Muslim? Would you say that you’re a good Muslim? Would, will you go to heaven when you die? That’s
Tayyab (06:34):
An interesting question. The answer for this question, it is up to God. I believe God is a very graceful, loving being, and he cares for all his creations, including me. I believe that he knows my name. He knows my fate. He knows what I do on a daily basis. He knows who I, who I am, what I stand for. He knows the purpose that he has for my life. And I believe that I am trying my best at being a good Muslim. And the actual determination of this response would be up to God himself. Not me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:08):
Let’s talk a little bit about the differences between Islam in Christianity. I’m a Christian. I believe that that G Jesus is God. And Muslims do not believe that they believe that Jesus is a prophet. Yes, sir. And of course in the, the Muslim religion Jesus is known as the prophet Issa. Yes, sir. And, and so let’s begin by kind of talking about kind of where we agree and then we can look at where maybe we, we disagree. Okay. So I think there’s some facts that both the Quran and the Bible can, can agree on. Okay. And the first one is that Jesus was a prophet. Yes. The, the, the Bible, the holy book of Christians mm-hmm, <affirmative> says that Jesus was a prophet. Okay. And also the Quran, the holy book of the mother. Yes, sir. Says that Jesus was a prophet. So on that we can agree. Yes. Jesus was a
Tayyab (08:04):
Prophet and something I would like to point out is we believe that he was one of the most important prophets, the second most important prophet. If I am not incorrect, prophet Muhammad had mentioned it. If I wasn’t the messenger of God, it would’ve been prophet
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:18):
ESA or Jesus in, in, so Muslims because of that would have deep respect and honor for Jesus. Is
Tayyab (08:24):
That we correct? Yes. As a Muslim, this is a statement that will shock almost every single listener to this podcast, but I am Muslim and I love Jesus. I feel like most people don’t understand this, but prophet Jesus is a big, big part of the, of the Muslim faith. And we do love Jesus. We might not believe that he is God, but we believe he was one of the beautiful creations of God. And that we have deep, deep respect for prophet Jesus. And we also believe that during judgment day he will come back and that he will fight the battle during judgment day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:57):
Another area that we can have agreement is that Jesus was born of a Virgin. Yes. Named Mary. Yes. So we find the story in the Bible and the story is also found in the Quran. Another thing we can agree on is that is Jesus performed miracles. Yes. Actually in the Quran, there’s a story of a miracle that Jesus did. That’s not even found in the Bible. But in the Bible, there are many, many stories of what Jesus did about how Jesus healed the blind, the crippled, the lame, they brought so many sick people to Jesus and Jesus touched them in instantly. Yes, they were healed. And, and so the Quran affirms that that Jesus does miracles. Yes. We also can agree that Jesus is coming again. And will judge the dead. You just mentioned that on the, on
Tayyab (09:48):
The judgment date. Yes. One thing I’d like to point out is about the miracles. We do not believe that Jesus himself does the miracles. We believe that it’s a divine in powers of God, himself. That Jesus was just a a medium through which the divine powers of God were
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:01):
Demonstrated. That’s a really interesting distinction as Christians. You know, we believe that Jesus is God. And so, because he is deity, he has the, the ability mm-hmm <affirmative> to, to do miracles. I and so we believe that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, that Jesus is alive today in that Jesus, the one who did miracles 2000 years ago is still alive. We believe that as well is able to do miracles today.
Tayyab (10:30):
We believe that he was also, he’s still alive. Yes. We do believe that as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:33):
Do, do you believe that Jesus can do miracles today for people
Tayyab (10:37):
That I I could not give a pause, a response on that? I, I’m not
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:41):
Sure. I was. I’ve actually had the experience of, of talking about Jesus with, with many Muslims. So one time I was in Pakistan and we had a, a big event, a big festival thousands of people we’re there. And I was talking about Jesus and all the miracles that, that Jesus did. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so at the, the back of the crowd, there was an Imam who came from the local mosque, and he just wanted to see like, kind of what was happening Uhhuh. And so he was standing back there. And on that night, we, we prayed in the name of Jesus. And there was a, a woman who was crippled. She, she couldn’t walk for many years and suddenly she was healed and she stood up and began to run back and forth. And, and Jesus healed me, Jesus healed. And, and she came up on the, the stage and, and she told everyone in the microphone, Jesus says, I’m Muslim, but tonight I was healed.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:34):
And she says, you preached about Jesus. And, and I was healed. And so the IAM, he heard out it, or, I mean, he was standing in the back of the crowd and he was so excited about what happened. The next day was Friday. He went to the mosque and he at the mosque, he told all the Muslims that were there. He said, go to the festival. He said, and Jesus is healing people there. He says, go, and Jesus will touch you. And so many of them came and many of them were touched by Jesus. It was really amazing.
Tayyab (12:01):
I am not gonna disagree with this, but it’s just a point that I would like to, I’m very hesitant by nature to believe things like this. Yeah. Everyth think is like, I try to keep it as genuine and honest as possible is sure.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:17):
Why are you hesitant to
Tayyab (12:18):
No, no. A good way to say it is things like this can be easily performed and mm-hmm, <affirmative> people are easily deceived. Let’s just keep it at that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:27):
And it’s easy. Are you saying that as a Muslim or from a, a scientific, modern viewpoint, that miracles are
Tayyab (12:34):
Difficult to happen? Not as a scientific viewpoint or as a Muslim, but more of a, the entire occurrence that an individual can get healed through an event and then starts preaching for a specific faith. It just sounds like a as a propaganda sorts, if that makes sense, I’m trying to be respectful about it as well, but it’s just something that human beings are very easily swayed in a direction. And they see something immediately where they cannot understand, or like in the past we could not understand magic, but we understand like the concept of sight of hand today. Sure.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:07):
If, you know, I think that would be kind of approaching it from a scientific viewpoint of demanding evidence of whether it’s
Tayyab (13:13):
True or not, not a scientific viewpoint, more of a, something can be made to look a certain way. If we want to look at a certain way mm-hmm <affirmative> and people are easy to be deceived.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:23):
Okay. Well, thank you for your honesty. The, the fifth and final thing that, that I find in both the, the Bible and the Quran is that Jesus was, was strengthened by the holy spirit. But I think it would actually be interesting to kind of show some of what the Bible says about Jesus, the prophet and what the Quran says about Jesus, the prophet. And so I would actually like to read a story I’ll read it first from the Bible mm-hmm <affirmative> and then let’s find it in the Quran. And if you would like to, to read it from the Quran. Yes. And this is the story of how Jesus was born. It’s a very important story in Christianity. In fact Christmas, which, which just celebrated yes. Is celebrating the miraculous conception and birth of Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:24):
And so at Christmas time, this year, we had a large group of Afghans that came over. Yes. all Muslim and to celebrate the Christmas story. We first read the Christmas story in the Bible, the Christian Bible, and then we read it in the, the Muslim Quran. So the story is found in the book of Luke chapter one, verse 26. It says in the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth a town in Galilee to a Virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The Virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, greetings you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you. Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angels said to her, do not be afraid.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:17):
Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son and you are to give him the name. Jesus. He will be great and will be called the son of the most high the Lord. God will give him the throne of a, his father, David. And he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end. How can this be? Mary asked the angel, since I am a version, the angel answered the holy spirit will come upon you. And the power of the most high will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the son of God, E and Elizabeth. Your relative is going to have a child in her old age. And she, who was said to be barren is in her six month for nothing is impossible with God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:01):
I am the Lord’s servant. Mary answered. May it be to me, as you have said, and then the angel left her. And so there’s several things in that passage that Muslims could agree with. There’s, there’s one important thing in that passage that Muslims would not agree with. Yes. Where the angel says that he will be called the son of the most high. Yes. and so Muslims don’t agree that Jesus is the son of God, but we’ll talk about that in just a second. Let, lets start with at least where there’s agreement understand. And so can you find this in the, the Quran it’s in? Sir, how do you say it, sir, sir.
Tayyab (16:41):
So it ISS number three, number three and is number 42. Okay. And before begin resign the holy Quran, we say, I, it is something we say before reciting the whole, what, what does that mean? I’m beginning in the name of aah, basically, which that what it means behold, the Christians, the angel said, oh, Mary aah has chosen you and purified. You chosen you above the women of all nations. Oh, Mary worship, your Lord divide, prostate yourself and bow down in prayer with those who bow down. This is part of the TIS of the things unseen, which we reveal unto you own messenger by inspiration. You are not with them when they cast lots of arrows as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary or were you with them when they disputed the point behold, the angels set, oh, Mary Allah gives you glad TIS of a word from him.
Tayyab (17:44):
His name will be Christ. Jesus. The son of Mary held in honor in this world and the hereafter and of the company of those nearest to a law. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be of the company of the righteous. She said, oh my Lord, how shall I have a son with no, when no man has touched me. He said, even so a law creates what he wills when he has decreed a plan. He but says to it B and it is, and a law will teach him the book on book and wisdom, the law and the gospel. Something before we move on is a key thing point out is during translation specific words can be interpreted in a specific way or can be added and equal removed depending on the translation of the language. I would say the best version to read the Holyoke Quran is in Arabic itself because,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:46):
And so do you read the Quran in Arabic? I do. Yes. But and, and do you understand Arabic, like, do you speak Arabic? Arabic
Tayyab (18:53):
Is a language that I’m not proficient in personally myself. The holy Quran is lit written in classical Arabic, which is one of the forms of Arabic, very complicated version of Arabic. Most people even Arabs today cannot speak that language. But what I’m mentioning is no matter how much we try to get the best translation of a holy scripture the other language falls short, and we have humans that are able to change or manipulate the language as they will to make it seem a certain way. So it’s best to just read the language in the language that it was, it was presented and try to understand it from the different interpretations from different individuals.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:31):
Yeah. The old Testament was written in Hebrew and the new Testament was written in Greek. And so I actually studied both Greek and Hebrew to be able to read the scriptures in the, the original languages. And I, I heard that that Muslims believe that the, the Arabic of the Quran is the most beautiful sound that has ever yes. Been said, is that true?
Tayyab (19:57):
I would say it is one of the, be most beautiful languages, if not the most beautiful language in the world. Classical Arabic, it gives peace to my heart when I listen to it, something that for example, this is a call to prayer. The haz is when they, the mosques, when they call you to prayer during five times a day, it is a very beautiful song of sorts. It’s a melody calling you to come pray in the house of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:21):
Can you sing it?
Tayyab (20:22):
I will not sing it for you now.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:24):
<Laugh>, I’ve heard it many times in different nations and they always get on a loud speaker and, and sing it sometimes very loud early in the morning. It wakes everyone up.
Tayyab (20:35):
If I sing it, I think most people will just
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:38):
See, this is not so beautiful.
Tayyab (20:41):
<Laugh>, they’ll go deaf on the podcast. You’ll be like, what is this?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:44):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Okay. So let’s, let’s talk about some things that Christianity and Islam do not agree on. So understand the first thing that, that Christians believe really the fundamental thing that we believe in our faith is that that Jesus is God. What do you, as a Muslim think when you hear someone say that this is
Tayyab (21:06):
God. I mean, number one, as Muslims, we’re taught to respect every other religion and not to make fun of it or do things that would be Blas for the other faith. So we, first of all, we respect it and respected individuals. Thank
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:21):
You for your respect. And, and in turn, I respect you and, and your
Tayyab (21:25):
Faith. And like we mentioned earlier as a Muslim, I love Jesus. He was the second most important prophet in our faith. So when you mention that Jesus is a son of God is a point of disagreement. We believe that Jesus was a prophet of God and that he was a very unique creation birth of a Virgin Mary, but he is not the son of God. We believe there’s one, God, he has no re relatives. You guys know sons or daughters. And we view humans as creations of God. Not, not, not sons of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:55):
So when you hear the term, son of God, what do you think of? I, I, I heard I, I spoke to one Muslim and, and he told me that this was actually very offensive to him cuz when he heard son of God, what he was thinking was that God literally came down and had sex with the, the Virgin. Mary is, is that what is people think when they hear the son of God? No, because that’s not really what Christians mean when they say son of God, they’re not thinking that
Tayyab (22:26):
I understand I, that individual that you spoke to was just uninformed. Let’s put it out that way and does not represent the rest of the Muslim community and their view on this topic. But as in the topic of having a son of God is just, you guys still believe Christians believe that the Christ that Jesus was God, and then there’s a Trinity, right? There’s Jesus there’s as far. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:48):
We haven’t gotten to the Trinity yet. That’s gonna be number four. Okay. But yeah, we believe that, that you have God, the father, God, the son, God, the holy spirit. Three in one there’s still one God. Yes sir. Yes sir. You know, in, in the, the Hebrew religion, the Jews, they believe that that God is one. And so Christians also believe God is one. But within that, we, we believe that there are three unique individuals in that called
Tayyab (23:15):
The Trinity. So when you mention the son of God, it just is something that I disagree with because it’s a part of a Trinity. And that is what it goes back to. That is a concept I disagree with.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:27):
Okay. Another foundational belief of Christian entity is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. The Bible says that all have sinned. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> that the price for sin is death. Okay. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. And so the Bible says that for God. So love the world that he gave. His only son mm-hmm <affirmative> that whoever would believe in him would not perish, but would have everlasting life. So we believe that that Jesus died on the cross. He was a perfect sacrifice. He never sin. He died on the cross to pay the price for our sins, but he didn’t stay dead. After three days, Jesus rose from the dead. And today Jesus is alive and everyone who calls on Jesus can be saved. And so when, when you hear someone say that, that Jesus died on the cross, do you agree with that? Or, or you disagree? We disagree with that as well. And so what was your perspective of, of what happened? We
Tayyab (24:20):
Believe that Jesus was rescued by God. Okay. And that he was not crucified on the cross. We
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:26):
Do believe so. It looked like he was crucified, but he didn’t really die.
Tayyab (24:28):
He was not crucified on the cross. Okay. Yes. We believe that he was rescued by God and that he will come back. He’s alive today. He’s in heaven right now. And he’ll come back on. So did
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:37):
Jesus die or not die? He never died. He never died. He just went to heaven. God took him.
Tayyab (24:42):
God. Yes, exactly. God rescued Jesus from
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:45):
He’s alive in heaven. Yes sir.
Tayyab (24:47):
Yes, sir. We believe that Jesus is alive in heaven and during judgment day he will come back and that it, it is a big, big part of our Islamic faith where like, as again, it is a huge honor and it shows how much love that we have for this prophet because God shows him as the individual to, to rescue and then bring back on judgment day to fight for Muslims. Again, we love Jesus. He is a big, big, big part of our faith.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:14):
So another thing that we would disagree on is that that Christians believe that that Jesus should be worshiped since he’s God. We worship him. We pray in the name of Jesus. We pray to Jesus because we believe he’s deity. He’s part of, of the Godhead. What do, what do Muslims believe? Should Jesus be worshiped or not?
Tayyab (25:35):
No, we do not believe that Jesus should be worshiped again. We, we view him as a human being. He was a human being. He was a prophet of God, but in, in his truest essence, we believe he was human. And that’s why prophet Mohammed is a very, very prominent part of prophet of Islam as well during his time when he introduced Islam to the rest of the world. And he did miracles again through the divine powers of God, it wasn’t miracles that he was channeling within himself when he died at the age of 60, roughly around that it proved to humans and to Muslims throughout the world, that it wasn’t prophet Mohamed doing this amazing powers. He wasn’t God. He was a merely human being, a messenger of God. The one only God. And he was a messenger and everyone before him was human and they were just prophets of God, specific individuals that chosen individuals or prophets of God, they’re human by nature.
Tayyab (26:31):
And as per Muhammad, when he died, it showed to us as in humans and Muslims and Muslims throughout the world, it was, Hey, remember that this individual was not your God. He was a human and that he passed away, but he gave the entire world the gift of Islam. And that’s what makes him special for us as human as, as Muslims. That’s why he’s the, the figure of Islam. When you think about Islam, think about prophet Mohammed, because he gifted us with the gift of the Holyoke Quran and that’s the fundamentals of what we follow as Muslims.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:05):
And then the, the final thing we already talked about a little bit is, is the Trinity. We Christians believe God, the father, God, the son, God, the holy spirit. What do Muslims think when they hear a Christian talk about the Trinity
Tayyab (27:21):
Again, in the beginning, we respect that. The fact that is a huge part of their belief. But we do, we disagree on this point because we do not believe that there is a, a father and a son and a holy spirit. We believe there’s one, God, one complete God. I understand that Trinity supports the existence of one God, but there’s, I wanna say parts to this one, God, but like Jesus is God. According to the Christian faith, and then you have father, who’s also God, and then you have the holy spirit. Who’s also God. And together they’re also God, but there’s one God. Right? But that’s right. Yeah. For the Muslim faith, there is just, it’s a simplified version of it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, there’s one God, a lot. We do not have the father, the son or the holy spirit. There is just one God, most complete, most magnificent, most loving most, most would you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:07):
Consider it? Bla for me to talk about there being God, the son, God, the holy spirit
Tayyab (28:14):
I would in my own opinion, again, it would, it would not be bla for me because it is your own faith and you follow your own faith and you, if you found perfect purpose in your own faith, you’ve every right to believe of what you, what you’re believing. That’s a big, big part of understanding. Religion in general is people try to find purpose in their faith. And when they do, we might disagree at certain points. But overall at a fundamental standpoint, religion was to make sure that people of have purpose in life and they’re good human beings. There’s incentive behind it. We might in my, we worship. We all worship the same. God. If you call him Jesus, if you call him father, if you call him a law, if you call him Buddha, whatever you follow in a humanistic level, we all worship the same. God. There is a higher being that gives us purpose in life.
Tayyab (29:01):
You see, we can easily divide ourselves based on different categories, faith cast, social class, but at the end of the day, Mr. Daniel King, we’re humans and we find purpose in different things based on our different situations. And if you’re a good person because of your faith, you’re a good person. Regardless if you’re, if for a Muslim, you’re a good person. If you’re a good person and for a Christian, you’re a good person. You’re a good person. I personally have to, to know you, you asked me what is your opinion on Christians? And I said, my perspective on Christians are people like yourself or your father or your sisters or your family. They represent the Christian faith for me. They represent America for me. And I, and I would say that you are an excellent ambassador of your faith for the rest of the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:53):
Well thank you for saying that. Thank you. I have one final question for you. You know, you talk about good deeds and, and bad deeds in Islam. If you have more good deeds than bad deeds, then you can spend eternity in heaven. Did I express that right?
Tayyab (30:18):
To a certain extent? Yes but no.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:20):
Okay. Explain the, that concept to be
Tayyab (30:23):
In Islam. The, the good deeds are promoted because you want to help the creations of God. And there’s bad deeds that aren’t discouraged. But if you have like God has made us humans, sinful by nature. And the concept of repentance is very, very critical in Islam. See, when you repent, when you repent wholeheartedly to God, God forgives all your sins, all your mistakes. It takes one moment, one pure deed, good deed out of your heart. Or just one moment of just being vulnerable to God. And God is so loving. So merciful. So caring. So forgiving that it is not, it’s not about quantity, Mr. King. It’s not. It’s about quality. See, he cares when you, when you surrender yourself to him, when you care about him, when that one moment of just being vulnerable and honest and asking for forgiveness from God, he forgives all your sins. Again, he’s very loving, very caring, very, very, it’s just an amazing, beautiful God. It’s not about quantity. As long as you’re, you try to be a person of God, you follow his faith, you follow his rules, you love his creations. You love him. And because of that, you love everything else. He, he, he has, he will. He will. I I’m. I’m sure of it that he will take us to heaven.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:49):
See Christians believe that everyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved. And so all of us, no matter how many good deeds that we’ve done, we are imperfect. And since God is perfect, if you have just committed one sin, you are not qualified in to, to be in God’s presence and trying to get to heaven through our own merit or through our own ability of all the, the good deeds that we have is, is impossible. And it’s it. It’s like if you imagine a cliff and you’re going to try to jump from one side of the grand canyon to the other side, and if you are overweight and have lots of body fat and, and you eat a donut and then Huff and puff and, and run and jump, as far as you, can you jump like one foot and then you fall to the bottom and you die.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:49):
Well, an Olympic runner who is really fast and good at jumping and, and is the fastest farthest jumping person in the whole world. And he gets a good running start. He’s at the peak of his condition. He runs as fast. He can jumps off the edge of the cliff. He can jump like 30 feet, you know, 10 meters out from the side of the cliff mm-hmm <affirmative>, but then he falls down to the bottom and he lands in the same place as the, the overweight man, because through our own ability, we can’t do it. Like we, we need help. And, and Christians believe that that help comes from Jesus. And Jesus said, I am the way the truth in the life. No one comes to God, the father except through me, mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so we believe that that at the judgment seat, that Jesus will judge us and Muslims also believe that that the day of judgment is coming and Jesus will judge us. And so I, I guess my final question for you,
Tayyab (33:45):
We do not believe that Jesus will
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:46):
Judge us or that Jesus will.
Tayyab (33:49):
What do you believe? So he will come back on the judgment day. Yes. Okay. And that he will fight a battle for, for against basically he’ll fight a battle for Muslim sets and he’ll come back in a, of fight for what is right. We do not believe that once again, he, we believe that he’s human in the prophet of God. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, he doesn’t have the right to judge us. He’s not God, in, in our beliefs only God can judge us. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:12):
So God will judge us, but Jesus will be there at the day of
Tayyab (34:16):
Judgment. Yes, he will. Yes. And once again, we, we also believe as most that we are sinful by nature. The only weekend we can go to heaven is through the mercy and forgiveness of God. That’s why I mentioned the importance of repentance, because God has to forgive us to make, to allow us to go to heaven. We are sinful. God has made us this way, but because we are sinful, we have free will we, of the ability to, to, to when nothing else is working on, everything seems like it’s out of the world, like out of your re the entire world is out of your reach and all your goals and dreams are beyond you. Like, for example, in my, in my life where I had to go back to God, when nothing else was working out to, to get safety and to pray for myself and my family, I found purpose in God. I found hope God. And I believe personally that I, because, because I love God because I care for him. And because of that, I, I, I, I, because of his amazingness, I believe in him that I, I, I will also in the future. I’m hopeful that I might, if I’m, if I’m good enough, I’ll go to heaven.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:20):
And so what, what response do you think that God will give to you on that day of judgment?
Tayyab (35:30):
That’s a question that I wish I knew the answer to 22 years ago, but today we are still, we’re trying to find out it’s, it’s, it’s a divine question. Like we asked.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:40):
And so you leave it in the hands of
Tayyab (35:42):
ALA. Yes. And like, if we can, at, we can ask a lot of things about life, you know, questions that we not never get the answers to. Like, how does God look like? Or how do we know, okay, okay. Why isn’t God doing this? Or why is this like this? Or what is, is good and what is right. See, these are questions that we might never know the answer to, or how, like how many species are there in the universe. It’s like things that humans don’t know yet, but God knows everything. And just like this question about my life and my future, if I’m gonna heaven or hell, I’ve trusted it upon God, because I love God. And I’m, I’m sure he loves me as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:16):
Well, I believe he does love you. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast with me. I think some of your answers will really help people to understand Islam more. So, so thank you so much for your insight. I
Tayyab (36:31):
Appreciate it. Thank you for having me on this podcast. It’s been an absolute pleasure. And once again out wanna give my greatest of gratitude from Mr. Daniel and the rest of his family for making us feel at home at safe here in the us. And just make sure that you take care of one, another guys, humans. We are social beings and we need each other and we find purpose and faith. And sometimes we’re reminded of the beauty of faith through one another. Just make sure you help one another byebye. Thank
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:58):
You time. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today, our ministry is helping Afghan refugees resettle here in the United States. The Afghans need houses, transportation, education, and many other things in order to succeed in this nation. If you want to help an Afghan refugee, you can do by making a donation@wwwdotkingministries.com. Thank you so much for your generosity and thank you for helping us to help these beautiful Afghan people who have come to our nation
Evangelism Podcast Host (37:33):
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