Who Was Samuel Davies? | Pastor John Blanchard

Learn more about Rock Church and Pastor John Blanchard 

Transcript: 

Evangelist Daniel King (00:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Pastor John Blanchard from Rock Church in Virginia Beach. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (00:14):
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Evangelist Daniel King (00:17):
Now we are in Rock Church, historic church here in Virginia Beach. And tell me a little bit about the history of this church and your father-in-law and mother-in-law who founded the church.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (00:34):
The church has an amazing history, founded in 1968 through miracle after miracle. This was a church after it was established, people wondered why is the church growing so fast? Why are so many thousands of people coming to Christ at that church? And they would ask my father-in-law, who’s in heaven now, Bishop John Gimenez, “What was your business plan?” And he said, “Well, there was no business plan. It was just the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit would lead them. They would follow in obedience to what God would say and God would do the rest.” And the amazing part of the story here is that years ago in 1968, when they first came to this area, they had recently been married, Bishop John Gimenez and Anne Gimenez. And first off, that story in itself is remarkable because John Gimenez was an ex-heroin addict in New York City.

(01:20):
And he’d been in all of the different prisons like Hearts Island, the tombs. He’d been just every person you can think of around the New York City area. And he was in his 30s, but he finally had a supernatural miraculous encounter with Jesus Christ. So powerful that he literally became delivered from the addiction to heroin, which is a medical impossibility, but God did it. And so then he met his wife, Bishop Ann Gimenez. Now she was an evangelist, a single female evangelist who traveled from city to city in the United States preaching, which by the way, it’s much more common today, but imagine 58 years, 60 years ago.

Evangelist Daniel King (01:59):
It was

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (01:59):
Very unusual. And so God took those two people, one from Houston, Texas area, one from New York City, brought them together and they began to preach the gospel. And the Lord sent them to Virginia Beach. They were actually not even coming to this area, they were on their way to Florida on a road trip. And then they said, “We have an invitation from Dr. Pat Robertson of the 700 Club.” And they had met him several times in different events around the country. And one time they actually met in London. There was a big event over in London. Pat Robertson happened to be there. Bishop John Gimenez was there. And Dr. Pat Robertson told him, “If you ever come to Portsmouth, Virginia,” because back then the 700 Club wasn’t in Virginia Beach. It was in a close by city called Portsmouth. And he said, “I’d like for you to be on my show, the Christian Broadcasting Network, the 700 Club.” And so they did.

(02:53):
They came down and the story’s really amazing because as they were road tripping it down here, my father-in-law said, “Oh, the Holy Spirit just spoke to me.” The Lord said, “We’ll know where we’re to stop on their journey of destiny, then we’ll know where we’re to stop because there’ll be an empty church building waiting for us.” And so my mother-in-law tells the story, Bishop Anne, when she heard that, she almost laughed at Discorn because she thought there’s not just empty church buildings waiting all over America for you to stop in to start holding services in or to become a pastor in. So they really didn’t know where they were going to go. They’re just following the Lord. Well, as the story unfolds, they had a scheduled appointment to be on the 700 Club when they found the building and the location. They approached the doors and the door sprung open and there was a lady waiting inside who worked with the 700 Club.

(03:45):
She was a part of a local Bible study of some Methodist parishioners who had got baptized in the Holy Ghost. Now you imagine this back in the late ’60s. So they got baptized in the Holy Spirit and they would practice the gifts of glossiladio speaking in other tongues. And so they knew John and Anne Gimenez were powerful revivalists and evangelists. And so the door opens and the lady’s name is Betty Forbes, amazing history of rock church. And Betty Forbes’ first words to Bishop Ann Jimenez, she says, “Oh, welcome. Welcome to the 700 Club.” She said, “I wanted to talk to you because I know where there’s an empty church building where there’s some hungry Methodist that would like to receive from your ministry.” And she said, “What’d you say?” She said, “I know where there’s an empty church building.” He had just said in the car on the way down.

(04:34):
The Lord said, “We know where to stop because there’s going to be an empty church building.” So she says, “Tell him. Tell him.” So she tells him and they were just shocked to hear those confirming words. And that was kind of the beginning. They ended up renting a building in Norfolk, Virginia and it was just packed out. The Jesus movement you hear about on the West Coast, there was a parallel movement that occurred on the East Coast. They didn’t really call it that, but that’s exactly what it was. All the hippies were getting saved. All the people of that generation were coming to Christ and John and Anne Gimenez were a key part. They were pioneers. They were foundational leaders and they had all Ephesians 4:11, five gifts of the Holy Spirit operating, including evangelism and God just blessed it. So the church has been here since 1968.

(05:22):
We’ve had in our membership class, I don’t know the exact amount, it’s over 20,000 have come through in those 58 years. Many of those people are in heaven are all over the world now, but a lot of people have come through this church.

Evangelist Daniel King (05:36):
Now I was exposed to the ministry of John Gimenez in 1988. I was 10 years old and at that time he was helping to host Washington for Jesus 88, which I think was the second big gathering that they did on the mall in Washington DC. And so my father had a gospel tent and he was inspired by Oral Roberts. So he bought a gospel tent and as a family, we were traveling around the United States doing tent crusades. And someone heard that he had one and said, Hey, we need a prayer tent on the mall. And so we went and my dad put up his tent on the mall and we actually lived there right next to the Smithsonian for a week in a RV and we were there on the mall and I remember they put up the big platform and then thousands of people came and everybody, the who’s who of Christianity came and prayed in the prayer tent.

(06:35):
So it was Pat Robinson and Oral Roberts and John Gimenez and all these great and Kenneth Copeland, great men and women of God. And of course I was 10 years old, so I didn’t know who I was hanging out with, but I just though it was fun to be there in the prayer tent and see all these great men and women of God who came through.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (06:53):
So that was your den. You guys were behind the prayer tent. I’ve heard of the prayer tent. I never knew that you guys were the ones connected to it. Well, that was an amazing and a really interesting connection with Bishop John. Interesting because something very special about his ministry and everyone who knew him said he was the greatest connector of people from different denominations. Sometimes unfortunately, as you know, there can be divisions in the body of Christ and Bishop John Gimenez had an uncanny ability to connect people sometimes from opposite sides of viewpoints. And you mentioned all those names and denominations, Church of God in Christ was there, Southern Baptist Convention was there, individually. I mean he had everyone you could think of, Cops for Christ, full gospel businessmen, every network was there. Campus Crusade for Christ, which all these different groups that were really some of the largest ministries in America at the time all gathered.

(07:59):
And they gathered for one thing, Brother Daniel, was to pray for America for revival. The vision was that God would heal the land through corporate repentance and seeking of the Lord. And based on two Chronicles 7:14, “If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray, seek my face, turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven?” God said, “I’ll forgive their sin and I’ll heal the land.” And that’s why they came was to pray that God would heal America.

Evangelist Daniel King (08:24):
I think we need that again today. If America needed prayer in 1988, it really needs prayer today. I know. I agree. And I think that it’s interesting what you said about him being a connector because you operate in that same anointing. You always love connecting people and have an anointing for that. And so you and I actually met on the campus at Or Roberts University and we were in our master divinity classes together. And I remember we had a neumatology class and we had a professor giving us all of the Greek words about pneumatology, which is the study of the Holy Spirit. And we’re talking about praying in tongues. And there was one man in the class who said, “I’ve never prayed in tongues before.” And you said, “Well, on the break, let’s pray for you and make sure you get filled with the Holy Spirit.” And so we took him into…

(09:16):
You remember that?

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (09:17):
I do.

Evangelist Daniel King (09:18):
And we took him into a little room during the break and you laid hands on him and he began to speak in tongues. He was filled with the Holy Spirit and God changed his life.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (09:26):
It was powerful. I’ll never forget it. And what was awesome was the moment he said, “Well, I’ve never spoken tongues before.” He said it’s a matter of factly. I could tell he was that type of personality, maybe more of a scientific approach, but immediately a gift of faith just left in my heart. I though if we pray for him and if we’ll get to him quickly in response to this message is starting to touch his heart, I believe he’ll have the faith and he’ll receive it. Because I learned a long time ago that everything we receive from God is by faith, faith based on his word, based on his promise. It was just amazing. I’ll never forget that class. What a blessing. I was so honored to be in school with you, even though you got a higher GPA than me, that’s okay.

Evangelist Daniel King (10:06):
Yeah. So we both graduated together with the Master Divinity from Oral Roberts University. That’s right. And you have continued your education and I did too. I did my doctorate at ORU.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (10:17):
Dr. King.

Evangelist Daniel King (10:18):
And then you went to Aberdeen University.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (10:21):
That’s right.

Evangelist Daniel King (10:22):
And you’ve now graduated. And so Dr. Blanchard, we’re a paradox now. A pair of docs.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (10:29):
That’s good.

Evangelist Daniel King (10:30):
You continued your education and you did your dissertation at Aberdeen University. And you did your study on a very unique person from the history here in America during the first great awakening. Tell us a little bit about it.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (10:49):
Oh wow. Well, there’s so much to tell. We may have to do other podcasts, but I would like to share this with your audience that I wrote about Samuel Davies. Samuel Davies was the fourth president of Princeton University. He was considered what they called the Apostle of the South during the first great awakening, 18th century. And he was especially known for evangelism, for soul winning. Now he pastored several churches and when he first came to the state of Virginia from New Jersey, at that time the colony was not a state and they were controlled by Anglicans, which is the church of England. Well, the Anglicans in the Church of England during that time, I discovered in my research, they were open to other groups and denominations, but truthfully, behind the scenes, not so much. I mean, I found letters from the governor saying, “You got to watch out for all these different denominations.” And he names the different ones.

(11:41):
But yet back in England, there was a legal document called the Act of Toleration. And what the Act of Toleration allowed for, at least back in England, they would permit these other denominations, certain levels of religious freedom. So everyone wasn’t locked in. You had to be Anglican 100%. And so Samuel Davies’ story is amazing in so many different ways because he goes down to Virginia and he appeals and he applies for a license to preach from Governor Gooch, William Gooch. I’ll never forget the name because it was very unique and different, but he receives it. He receives it and he begins to minister what are known as dissenter churches. So these were churches that wanted to practice their Christian faith, but outside of Anglicanism. And he ended up pastoring five other meetings, almost six churches in Virginia. And his story is so powerful because he passed away very young.

(12:35):
He was only 37 years old when he was the president at Princeton and he passed away. But prior to that, he did so much in his lifetime. And one of the things that was most profound was the system I developed was to create kind of a rubric, a mechanism to understand an analysis of his conversion theology. In other words, what did it mean for Samuel Davies for a person to be saved?

Evangelist Daniel King (13:03):
That’s very interesting. So this is during the great awakening. Jonathan Edwards was one of the key evangelists during that era. And he would stand up and he would read his manuscript, sinners in the hands of an angry God, and people would start to cry. And if you read the manuscript, he talk about how we’re like little spiders hanging by a thread over the pits of hell, and at any moment the thread could be jumped. I always though if I write a book, I’d do it sinners in the hands of a merciful God instead of an angry God. But that’s what was happening in America. But with this great awakening, and then a little bit later, George Whitfield came and started to preach and went all over America. And so it was a wonderful time in our nation that really laid the foundations for what God has done in this nation.

(13:56):
So with Samuel Davies, what were some of his unique theology in the area of conversion? What did it mean to be saved in the ministry of Samuel Davies?

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (14:07):
Well, it’s interesting you should bring up Jonathan Edwards because Jonathan Edwards from New England was a congregationalist and he was influenced a lot by his grandfather. I forget his first name. His last name was Stoddard, and he was also a preacher. And they were influenced by a Puritanism version of conversion theology, which really influenced a lot of the first great awakening. And then you’re right, George Whitfield came all the way down to Virginia to the very area where Samuel Davies ended up pastoring. And so he had great influence. And there’s actually a letter in which Jonathan Edwards talks about Samuel Davies and how he’s impressed by him as a young minister, that they had had a meeting and he mentions him in a letter. And so we could see that they were connected and they were contemporaries at the time. Now, the thing that was unique about Davies that was maybe a little bit different than our modern understanding of conversion theology was Davies had a system that he called an element called the means of grace.

(15:12):
We don’t really use that term today, the means of grace. Now means of grace, by the way, that term can be understood differently by different people. The means of grace, especially by Methodism, means something a little bit different, but similar to what Davies meant it as. But Davies meant as the means of grace was that individuals who heard the gospel, that there were things that they could do to prepare themselves to receive a genuine conversion born again experience. And so they talked about the means of grace. The means of grace simply meant like reading your Bible, praying from God’s mercy, attending church services, avoiding gambling, carousing and the worldly things that were the worldly things back then. And they called this the means of grace. But he explicitly, theologically made this very strong assertion that no matter how many means of grace that you do, none of them are like a ticket to heaven.

(16:03):
They’re not going to bring you salvation or they’re not going to somehow buy the grace of God. Only God himself can do that. And so that was one of the things that was unique. The other thing that to me was unique, and we see this with you and other evangelists, but maybe not with a lot of Christians in general, but he had such a burning urgency for everybody to get saved. So every one of his sermons, he wrote songs. He was a hymn writer. He’s the first published hymn writer in North America. If you read his songs, they’re about salvation and getting saved. If you read his sermons, they’re all about salvation and getting saved. It’s not like an altar call at the end.

Evangelist Daniel King (16:42):
It was the whole service directed towards getting saved.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (16:44):
Right. But he would take a theme and he would bring it to the cross and bring it to the gospel. So he did have different themes, but one of the sermons I read was about convincing the listener that you think that you’re a Christian, but his topic was how does the love of God dwell in you? And then he lists the things that most Christians at the time would practice that proved in reality they didn’t have the love of God in them. And when you read his sermon, it’s so convincing. It’s like a lawyer giving this brilliant case in a closing argument to a judge or to a jury. And in fact, when I read it, I though, man, am I really saved? Because the bar was so high. It just was powerful. In fact, I encourage listeners to look up Samuel Davies online because you can read his sermons for free.

(17:32):
A lot of websites just post his sermons and you can pick them by topic. And they’re kind of lengthy. They’re probably about, I don’t know, 15, 20 pages each, but they’re worth it and you will be changed after reading one of his sermons.

Evangelist Daniel King (17:45):
What are some of the things that you’ve learned by learning from his theology? How has it impacted your life or changed your preaching?

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (17:56):
His sermons, I’ve used some of his ideas in my sermons. So it’s funny you should ask that because I’ve incorporated. But in terms of evangelism, if we go towards evangelism, he preached to a very different audience. So he was in an America that was different than the America today. The America we have today has such a multiplicity and a mixture of different subcultures. And so he wouldn’t have had the types of subcultures that exist today. He would have had kind of a majority Christian friendly, although probably somewhat backslidden culture, but yet everyone still maybe deep down understood that the culture of the 13 colonies were Christian based. But today in modern times, there’s just so much mixture with other religions, atheism, agnosticism, with people who are involved in occultism, all these different voices and messages. And because of that, he could preach a sermon that approached the listener with the objective in mind to convert someone who thinks that they’re Christian.

(19:04):
They grew up Christian, they were born Christian. They might have been baptized as a baby, but were they really born again? That was something very, very different. And so we have different audiences, but I think ultimately Samuel Davies and myself and perhaps you and other ministers, we have the same goal that the listener will come to salvation, to come to grace in Christ to be born again and find repentance and eternal life. And so in that way, I was inspired to make sure that my messages are more salvation focused and salvation centered than they have been. Now I always do an awkward call. I always have because I was an atheist that was born again. So my history is I did not grow up in the church. I didn’t have that background whatsoever. In fact, quite the opposite. And so when I was born again, when Paul got saved, he was looking to convert people that was similar to him before he got saved.

(20:01):
He wanted to go preach to all the Jews. He was one of the Jews. And so I was that way too. I still am. I was an atheist, so I want to go preach to all the atheists and minister the gospel to them. And being a former atheist, I realized sometimes in apologetics we want to kind of win the argument against whatever the atheist view is. But I discovered, and this was true for me too, my argument wasn’t so much an intellectual disagreement as much as it was a heart issue that deep down in my heart of hearts. I knew God was real, but I didn’t want to accept that because then I would have to submit to the reality that I wasn’t God and that there was a higher standard that I had to be subject to a creator and I didn’t want that to be true.

(20:47):
And so I think that issue.

Evangelist Daniel King (20:48):
So how did you come to know Christ?

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (20:51):
I had a supernatural born again experience. The Lord just came. Now I have an older brother who’s a minister and he’s kind of in the Rhema stream of ministry. So he’s in the faith stream, which is what I cut my teeth on too. I read a lot of those books when I was a baby Christian. And so he tried to witness to me and that was a big joke to me because I was an atheist. So I would always –

Evangelist Daniel King (21:14):
You would argue with him.

Pastor John Blanchard – Rock Church (21:15):
Oh, I would attack his conversion story. I would undermine his statements of faith. He thought that when he was converted, that the minister who spoke to him shared some things that only God could have known. And those were the things that I was so skeptical of and ridiculed only because again, I was desperate to hold onto my viewpoint that I was convinced…

Evangelist Daniel King: Thank you for being on The Evangelism Podcast