Is the Gospel worth dying for? Today on the Evangelism Podcast I interview David Ursin from Making Jesus Known. He shares why he continues to preach the Gospel…even when it is dangerous!
Learn more about David Ursin: https://makingjesusknown.org/
Transcript
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Is the gospel worth dying for? Today I discuss this vital question with David Urson from Making Jesus Knowing. He has gone to countries all over the world preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and sometimes he has encountered dangerous situations and today we discuss whether we should be willing to give our life for the sake of the gospel.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:43):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist, Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:08):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, David Urson from Making Jesus Known. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
David Ursin (01:20):
Thank you for having me on. I appreciate you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
All right, David. Sometimes when you go to the mission field, it is extremely dangerous.
David Ursin (01:27):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:28):
And you have been traveling to different places around the world and you have encountered danger in some of your trips. Tell me about it.
David Ursin (01:38):
Yes. I mean, every time I get on an airplane, I have to contemplate is the gospel worth dying for? Because the truth is I don’t know what I’m getting myself into. Sometimes I know I’m going into danger. Other times I don’t know what’s going to happen. I might be feel safe, but you just never know what’s going to happen. One thing with- I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:55):
Wonder if Jesus asked that question. Is the gospel worth dying for? Yeah. And his answer was yes.
David Ursin (02:00):
Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:01):
He died on the cross. He gave his life. Absolutely. And thank God that he gave his life and then he came back to life. Yeah.
David Ursin (02:07):
Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:08):
But you’re right. As evangelists, we have to ask that question. Is the gospel worth dying for?
David Ursin (02:12):
Yeah. The whole situation with Charlie Kirk, it makes you think it just takes one bad person with a bad motive to come in and do something horrific. And so I always think to myself, is it worth dying for? And of course I say yes, but when we go, there’s a couple stories that I have. One of them, this was in India actually. I think there was two or three radical Hindus who came and burned down numerous churches who were working with us and they were hoping that we would be scared and cancel the crusade and not come. So that was the hope, but that didn’t happen actually. What happened was these terrorists actually got captured. They were arrested. They were put into jail and we still came and did the gospel crusade. But what’s really interesting … Now, I don’t know how this happens in India because this would not happen in the United States like this, but as the gospel crusade was going on, the Holy Spirit began to work on one of these radical Hindu terrorists in jail.
(03:08):
And he talked to the jailer and he said, “Mr. Jailer, I want to go to the gospel crusade to attend.” And so the jailer contacted my main crusade director and said, “Hey, remember this radical Hindu who burned down all those churches? Yeah, he wants to come to the crusade.” And my director said, “He can come but he has to be right by my side because I don’t want him wandering around because I still don’t fully trust him.” And so this radical Hindu got out of jail, came to the gospel crusade and he was right next to my main crusade director. Now to be honest, my director did not tell me about the situation until after it happened. And so I thought that this guy was a pastor because all of the pastors, as you know, usually they sit behind you as you speak on stage.
(03:58):
And so there’s probably about 20 different pastors on stage and one of them this guy was sitting right next to my main director and I’m there, man. I’m preaching the gospel like I always do and then I do the altar call and this guy behind me is here surrendering his whole life over to Jesus and I’m like, “Pastor, what’s going on pastor?” And this guy ended up being one of the terrorists who burned down the churches and then afterwards he paid out of his own pocket for some of the churches to be rebuilt. It was kind of like it’s the keyest moment. It was really a cool story.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:30):
Wow. So the radical Hindu terrorist came to the crusade and gave his life to Jesus and got his life right and then started building churches. That’s what I like to hear. And then you’ve also been in Pakistan. What have you seen happen in Pakistan?
David Ursin (04:47):
Man, my biggest crowds have been in Pakistan. It seems like real revival is happening because really I got a lot of evangelist friends like you have who whenever they go to Pakistan, they see 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 people come to Jesus. So it’s nothing about my ministry or your ministry. I think the Lord is just really moving powerfully in Pakistan. But there was one time that I was working with one of the most well-known pastors in Pakistan and because he’s the most well-known pastor in Pakistan, he has a lot of radical Muslims who don’t like him too much. And two days before our crusade, he showed me a news article on his phone and this article said that they had just captured two terrorists, that the government of Pakistan captured two terrorists and these terrorists had a list of people that they were planning to assassinate.
(05:34):
And this pastor friend of mine, the guy who’s organizing this event for me was at the top of the list. Now one thing that I know you understand, but for your viewers, whenever I go to these countries, I usually don’t put my name or picture on advertisements because it’s just for safety risks. But what we do is we put the native pastors on the flyers. And so on all of the TV advertisement and the posters and the banners and the flyers, this pastor, his face was on the advertisement, name, the date and the location of this event. And I remember walking up on stage and I really was praying. I said, Lord Jesus, just because I’m like, I pray that they captured all of the terrorists involved with this terrorist plot because I’m like, just because they captured two terrorists doesn’t mean that there’s not six or eight or 10 people involved with this plot and it’s still going to go forward.
(06:24):
So I’m walking on stage and I’m thinking like, Lord, I really hope and pray that they captured all of the terrorists because I was going to be sitting right next to this pastor who they were planning to assassinate and Lord willing, nothing happened, but we just didn’t know. And so we could have easily canceled the event and said, “You know what? There’s just too much risk. I could be killed.” But I’m like, “You know what? No, the gospel is worth dying for. ” And people ask them all the time, David, why? Why are you willing to put your life at risk? And I think it’s very simple. If I was to die today and if you were to die today, we would be in heaven with Jesus. Hallelujah. But if these Muslims or Hindus or atheists or whoever it is we’re speaking to, if they were to die today, they’d be in hell for eternity, man.
(07:09):
I don’t want that to happen. And so I’m willing to put my life at risk so they can have everlasting life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:14):
Amen. Let’s talk some about your history. How did you get started doing evangelism?
David Ursin (07:22):
Yeah. So really when I was a little boy, I always loved Jesus and I would always be asking people, “Hey, do you want to go to church with me? Hey, come to church, please come to church.” And my hope was that they would come to church and fall on their knees and surrender their life to Jesus, which actually never happened, but my hope was that they would surrender their life to Jesus. But then someone taught me how to articulate the gospel, how to just go up to someone and start sharing a one-on-one. And then I was taught how to lay hands on the sick and how to pray and how to prophesy and how to use the power evangelism on my one-on-one presentation. And then I did a one year apprenticeship program with Evangelist Daniel Colinda where he mentored me and trained me how to speak in front of large mass crowds.
(08:05):
And for those of you who don’t know who Evangelist Daniel Kolenda is, the way that I describe him, I call him the Michael Jordan of evangelism. He’s the best of the best in my personal view of evangelism and I was trained by him. And so I think about, man, if I was playing basketball and I was trained by Michael Jordan, how much of an impact that make on someone’s life and basketball career. And he really jump started my career and he really taught me how to have an evangelistic ministry. So I was with him for about his ministry for about two years and then since 2015, I’ve been on my own preaching the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:39):
And so since you’ve been on your own, what are some of the different places that you’ve been going to?
David Ursin (08:45):
Yeah. So my main three countries that I like to focus on are India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, but I’m actually doing a gospel crusade in Egypt in about 12 days. And so that would be really, really fun. I’ve been to Guyana, South America, been to Trinidad, I’ve been in Nigeria, so I’ve been a little bit all over, but India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, that’s really the area that I really want to focus on the most.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:08):
Yeah. I love that section of the world. There are so many people and so many people that don’t know Jesus. And so if we’re going to reach the world for Jesus, we need to have those nations on our heart.
David Ursin (09:23):
Yeah. I want to reach the unreached, for sure.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:25):
Amen. Tell me a little bit about your testimony and your family. How did you meet your wife?
David Ursin (09:31):
Yeah. So my wife, she lives in Orlando, Florida and so do I. And so I have a nonprofit, a 501c3 as you do as well, and we have to raise our own money, and that’s always a interesting fun task. And so I was doing a fundraising event for making Jesus known.That’s the name of my evangelistic ministry. And my wife has actually the number … I’m sorry, she has a catering company in Orlando, Florida, and it’s the number one rated catering company in all of Orlando, Florida. And so I hired her company to actually cater my fundraising event, but I had no idea who she was. I thought she was a 50 year old woman. I knew nothing about her, but then I sat down with her and we just went over what I want for the catering event and I’m like, “Man, I needed to cater for me every single day of my life.” So she
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:25):
Must have done a good
David Ursin (10:26):
Job, great service
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:28):
At the catering event.
David Ursin (10:29):
Yes, definitely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:30):
Definitely. Wow. And you told me a little story about your wife and you have twins, but they’re not yours. So tell me a little bit about her history.
David Ursin (10:42):
Yeah, my wife has got a very unique story and so my wife was actually married before. Her husband was murdered about eight years ago. Oh wow. It happened in Louisville, Kentucky and it’s a long, crazy dragged out story that I could talk another 30 minutes about honestly. But one week after the murder, two of her lady friends came up and shared the gospel with her and it was at that time that she completely surrendered her entire life over to Jesus and those same two women actually led her through forgiveness of the murderer. So on week after the murder, she gets born again and she completely forgives the murderer. I mean, I get mad sometimes and when people cut me off in traffic and I still think about that situation sometimes a few days afterwards, but to have an individual whose spouse just got murdered and for her to be completely free … Again, I’ve been married for about three and a half years and there’s no anger or bitterness towards the murderer.
(11:41):
Now sometimes there’s pain about the whole situation, but I’ve never once heard her badmouth or just be angry at the murderer. She’s free from that, which is incredible. I always say, before I got married, I thought to myself, I’m like, “Man, if this woman can forgive a murderer, she can forgive me for all the stupid stuff I say and all the dumb stuff I do, which is sometimes a pretty long list.” So she’s got a very forgiving heart and that’s one thing I really appreciate about her.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:06):
Well, thank God that he forgave us. Jesus died on the cross so that our sins could be forgiven and because we’re forgiven now we can forgive others. All right you mentioned that you were an apprentice with Daniel Klinda with Christ for All Nations for a couple of years. What were some of the things that you learned during your time with Christ for All Nations?
David Ursin (12:34):
Yeah. So my time was so valuable because the program that I did, it was actually the first and only time that he did a one year apprenticeship program. Now fast forward to today, he’s doing like different schools and three month internships and six month internships with like a hundred people and those are great, but us, it was so small that he could spend a lot more time with us on everything. And so as you know, CFAN, Christ for All Nations has about seven or so different departments and we got trained by every single department head on how to do what it is that they do. So for the publication department, we got trained by the head of the publication department of what they do for the web department on how to have your own website, on how to have send out emails and then also for the donor development, how to raise your own money.
(13:18):
And so we got trained by every single person who again, I believe is the best of the best in the business.That’s not what I mean by business. It’s a bad term, but just the phrase- In the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
Ministry.
David Ursin (13:30):
In the ministry, right? But it is like how to do what they do. And then also how to even have just the relationship with financial partners and how to just be with them. And so every day we got to have personal training, whether it was by Evangelist Reinharbanki or Evangelistanta or Todd White, Michael Culianos. And then after the actual ministry, we got to have the training by the department heads. And so it was very valuable because again, no one else has been able to do this one year program other than six individuals.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:10):
Wow. And one of my friends, Paul Mauer went through with you and-
David Ursin (14:14):
We are roommates actually. You
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:15):
Are roommates. And so I always love getting Paul’s emails because he’s over in Europe a lot. I think I just got one from him in Bulgaria and just ministering to small groups of people, I mean, Europe sometimes is more unreached than if you go to Africa and so he is right on the front lines telling people about Jesus. I’m always so inspired seeing his emails. And so it’s neat to see how God has developed your ministry. But like when I think about CFAN, it is a big ministry. Reinhard Bonke has toiled in the harvest fields of Africa for 40 years and then Daniel Kalinda took it and has been going above and beyond. And so when you learn from a big ministry, it’s easy to see what you could do with a lot of resources, but then you went and you started on your own and probably started relatively small and so what have you been able to adapt as you’re small that has helped you in evangelism from the big to the small, like to help other evangelists who may be like, “I don’t have millions of dollars.
(15:39):
I’m just starting with nothing.” What would you say to them?
David Ursin (15:43):
I truly believe, well, first of all, if you’re not willing to preach the gospel to the homeless person on the street corner or the mall or the gas station, there’s no reason for you to have a microphone and preaching on stage. And if the Lord has really called you to be a full-time gospel crusade evangelist, you can really do a crusade for 5,000 or $10,000, you just scale it. See fan, of course they’re again, I think the biggest evangelistic ministry, but it’s all scalable. One of their flagship gospel crusades costs on average about $1 million just for one event and my yearly budget is not even a million dollars. But I think if you go to India or Pakistan or Bangladesh, the dollar goes so far in these countries. You can truly do a good gospel crusade I think for even less than $10,000. You could probably even do it for $5,000.
(16:38):
I’ve never tried that for 5,000, but I’ve done some for $10,000 and those are multiple nights long. So you really don’t need a lot of money to go and preach the gospel. But again, if your heart is not even willing to go preach to the one person, I don’t think you have a place for a platform, but yeah, use what the Lord has given you and it’s kind of like the boy with the fish, the two fish and the loaves. I think the Lord will multiply it if you’re faithful with what you have in the small beginnings.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:09):
Now you’re preaching the gospel to Muslims, to Hindus, to people that have never heard the gospel before. What do you consider to be the core elements of the gospel? If you’re preaching, you got 30 minutes and then people will start to wander away. So what is it that you really want to impart that people need to know about
David Ursin (17:32):
God? Yeah, there’s something that I call the two minute gospel, which I’ll sum up in 60 seconds, but that Jesus is God. For Muslims, that’s huge. So I think that Jesus is God, that he lived a perfect sinless life and that he on the cross … I’m sorry, but before that is that he lived a perfect life, but we are sinners. We are not perfect, right? And then he hung on the cross and he became our sin, the sin that my sin and your sin, and he died the death that we all deserve to die to have. And then after three days, Jesus rose up from the grave and he conquered sin, hell and death and that if we repent and we believe that we too can conquer sin, hell and the grave. And one thing that I say a lot is, I mean the word repent, it literally means to change your mind and it simply means you now accept Jesus as your Lord and savior.
(18:25):
And he’s now number one in your life, not Allah and not any millions of gods in the Hindu deal. When you say yes to Jesus, you say no to all the other gods. And that’s just the simple gospel, that he became a man and died the death that we should have died, he rose from the dead and we need to repent and believe.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:44):
Amen. So give me a testimony of something that you’ve seen God do through your ministry.
David Ursin (18:53):
So one thing about miracles, because we always pray for the sick and we’ve seen so many different blind eyes open and cripples walk and deaf ears open. And so there’s not one specific testimony that I can think of that really, really exalts itself. But here’s a question that I get a lot is, David, how do you know that all these miracles are real and how do you know? And the truth is I don’t know. I don’t know because I’m just trusting that this person, that this blind person is telling me the truth and I’m trusting that this deaf person is telling me the truth. But what I tell these people is I’ve heard and seen thousands of miracles. They can’t all be lying, right? Not every single blind person is lying. Not every single cripple is lying. Not every single deaf ear person is lying.
(19:41):
They’re not lying. They have nothing to gain. And so I believe that the power of the gospel is relevant and also the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That’s one of my favorite things to pray for over a crowd is to see people truly get baptized in the Holy Spirit and start speaking in tongues and there’s a lot of just … And then see the demons manifest when that happens, to see demons leave because when the Holy Spirit comes, the demons have to leave.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:08):
Amen. Yeah. I remember one time I was ministering at a crusade in India and we were working with a group of churches that didn’t believe that tongues are for today and that’s what they were all taught in seminary, in their training and that’s what they thought. And so on the fourth night of our crusade, we had Holy Spirit night and I taught on the three greatest miracles in the Bible, creation, Calvary and Pentecost. God created you, Go saves you and God empowers you. And I opened up my Bible to Acts chapter two and read through what happened on the first day of Pentecost. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit. They had tongues of fire that appeared above their heads and they all spoke in tongues as the spirit enabled them. And I said the same power that came on the day of Pentecost is available to you today.
(21:11):
And one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues and I share the testimony of how I began praying in tongues when I was only four years old.
(21:21):
My father was praying for someone. He heard someone beside him praying in tongues and he opened his eyes and I was there beside him praying right along with him at the age of four. And so I shared this testimony and how I pray in tongues every single day and Paul said, “I pray in tongues more than all of you and how praying in tongues builds up your spirit and you can become strong in the spirit when you pray in your heavenly language.” And afterwards some of the pastors came to me and they said, “Now we see that tongues is for today. No one has ever explained this to us before, but you went through all the scriptures and now we want this gift too.” Wow. And so we prayed for them and God gave them the gift of praying in tongues and it radically transformed their ministries because the Holy Spirit is available in power for anybody who asks for the gift of the Holy
David Ursin (22:21):
Spirit. It’s really sad when I hear people who they’re like the cessationist, the gifts have died. And of course I believe that these people are born again believers, but they’re missing multiple tools that the Holy Spirit gives us for the empowerment because when the Holy Spirit- You’re leaving
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:38):
The gifts wrapped up under the Christmas tree
David Ursin (22:40):
Instead of opening them up. Yeah, exactly. And I feel bad for them. And sometimes I’ve tried to explain to different people about this and they’re like, “You know what? I just don’t want that. ” You don’t want a gift that the Holy Spirit gives you and they just say, “No.” And that’s sad, man, because it’s available for everyone.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:57):
Yeah, amen. Well, if someone wants to find out more about your ministry or they want to donate to help you with your next gospel crusade, what’s a website where they can find out more about you?
David Ursin (23:11):
Yeah. So go to makingjesusknown.org and make sure you do. Org. If you do. Com, you got a whole different website, but making jesus known.org and you can just hit the donate button. And also I got a lot of pictures and videos and the About Us page and contact us. If you want to contact me, you can go to that website as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:27):
Let’s finish with a word of encouragement to people who want to be evangelists, but maybe they’re a little hesitant. They’re not sure if they’re willing to risk their lives for the sake of the gospel. What would you say to encourage them?
David Ursin (23:45):
My life verse is Romans 1:16, “For I am unashamed of the gospel of Christ.” What I would encourage you is first of all, just praise. Lord, give me the boldness to go and talk to someone at Walmart or the gas station or the grocery store. And that’s a big step. If you’ve never actually done that, you can be very nervous doing that, but I believe when you take that step and you see the impact of your yes, it’s addicting. It really can be addicting when you see the people, whether they come to Jesus or they get physically healed, but just take a leap of faith and do it. And the more you do it, again, it can be very addicting. But I would just say first pray, Lord, give me the boldness and then go and do it and just step out.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:32):
Awesome. Well, David, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast. It’s good to have you here today.
David Ursin (24:38):
God bless you. Thank you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (24:40):
Do you feel called to preach the gospel? Do you dream of standing before a crowd and leading people to Jesus, but wonder how to do it effectively? Preaching to the lost is an art and few know it better than evangelist Daniel King. In his powerful book, How to Preach the Gospel, you’ll discover step-by-step guidance by preparing messages that move hearts and transform lives. Learn how to preach evangelistically. Open a crusade sermon and work with a translator. You’ll also find out how to share your testimony, tell stories that connect and even preach to people with different religious backgrounds. Whether you’re speaking to 100 or 100,000, this book is your roadmap to becoming an effective preacher of the gospel. To get your copy of how to preach the gospel, go to kingministries.com. Also available on Amazon.
(25:32):
Do you ever find it hard to share your faith? What if telling someone about Jesus was as simple as drawing a picture on a napkin? In his latest book, The Gospel and Pictures, communicating Eternal Truth Visually by Evangelist Daniel King, you’ll discover simple and creative ways to explain the plan of salvation anytime, anywhere. This powerful book will teach you how to be bold in sharing your faith. Clearly communicate the basic gospel message and remembering the plan of salvation. Imagine sitting at a coffee shop. Someone asks, “What must I do to be saved?” With just a pen and a napkin, you’ll be able to draw the way to eternal life in a way they’ll never forget. If you want to be an effective witness for Jesus and confidently lead others to salvation, this is the book for you. To get your copy of the gospel and pictures, go to kingministries.com.
(26:26):
Also available on Amazon.
Evangelism Podcast Host (26:32):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit kingministries.com. Again, that’s kingministries.com.
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