“Jesse” Leon Rodgers is building City Elders, an organization that is dedicated to protecting life, defending liberty, exalting Christ, and helping families to flourish. Their goal is to guard the gates of the city by developing leaders from the three primary spheres of God ordained authority; the Church, Civil Government and Business. How is praying for those in authority connected to evangelism? We answer that question and more in today’s podcast.

Questions for “Jesse” Leon Rodgers: 

What are the “Gates of the City”?

Who is guarding the Gates of the City?

What are the City Elders? City Elders embodies the Biblical Model of City Governance. The crisis in our government has sounded an alarm. The Kingdom is calling Spiritual Elders from the three primary spheres of God ordained authority; the Church, Civil Government and Business, to govern at the gates of the city.

What does City Elders endeavor to do?

1. Establish righteousness in government; spiritual, civil, and economic systems.

2. Draft civil laws which reflect Biblical values and Judeo-Christian ethics.

3. Protect those vulnerable, innocent, disenfranchised.

4. Promote the principles and protocols of God’s Kingdom.

5. Glorify God through the Lordship of His Son, Jesus Christ.

What are the three primary spheres of God ordained authority? They are the Church, Civil Government and Business. All three of these institutions were designed for the express purpose of protecting and providing for the family.

1. Shepherds: These are God’s servants ordained to feed, lead, protect and nurture the people of God.

2. Servants: These are God’s civil servants, called, anointed and appointed to administer justice, judgment, equity and protection.

3. Stewards: These are God’s kingdom entrepreneurs to create wealth and employment opportunities.

What values do you think Christians need to defend?

During the presidency of Donald Trump, some people accused Christians of compromising their values by voting for a man who has been divorced several times and who has been known to speak crassly. Do you think that Christians are hypocrites for claiming to be “values voters” and then to vote for someone who does not reflect their Christian values?

Joe Biden often emphasizes that he is a “devout Catholic” yet he is for abortion, homosexual marriage, and for transgenderism. What response should Christians have to his presidency?

Atheists have complained about “Christian Nationalism” and they say it is important to keep the church out of the government, what would you say in response to their accusations?

This is an Evangelism Podcast, so our focus is evangelism. What role do you think these gatekeepers in the church, business, and civic realms have in protecting our right to evangelize and to practice our religious beliefs? We need to pray for those in authority that all men might be saved. Key Scripture: 1 Timothy 2:1-4 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Key Quotes: Wherever there is a municipality, there is a principality.

The Lion of Judea should wind up with the lion’s share of the souls.

Website: https://cityelders.com/

This is The Evangelism Podcast Hosted by Daniel King The Evangelism Coach

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:01):
Jesse Leon Rogers is building city elders in organization that is dedicated to protecting life defending Liberty exalting Christ and helping families to flourish. Their goal is to guard the Gates of the city by developing leaders from the three primary spheres of God, ordained authority, the church, civil government, and business. How is praying for those in authority connected to evangelism? We answer that question and more in today’s podcast…

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:30):
Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. We have a special guest. Jesse Rogers is leading city elders and the goal of city elders is to embody the biblical model of city governance. And so brother, Jesse, thank you so much for being with me today, Daniel. My pleasure. Good to be with you. So tell me a little bit about city elders and what city elders is called to do.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (01:37):
Well, city elders is really a restoration of a biblical form of city governance in the old Testament the ancient cities of Israel, those that had walled cities, they were guarded by and protected by elders in the gate. So they had Watchman on the wall. There would be kind of a picture of the prophetic. And then they had elders in the gate and, and they were the first line of defense of the city against intruders or attackers. And so it was, it was a way of protecting the city.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:09):
And so your organization is, is called city elders. And on your website, you say that the crisis and our government has sounded in alarm. The kingdom is calling spiritual elders from the church, the business in civic, arenas of life, to Gover an ad, the Gates of the city. Talk to me about the importance of these three different areas. The church arena, the business arena, and then civic leaders.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (02:40):
Well, there’s, there’s a divine design and a God, God designed culture. He designed government and these are components and actually expressions of his person. God’s a governor, the government rests upon his shoulders. And so God has a, he’s designed a way of protecting, protecting the family, protecting the city. And also it means a protection of the kingdom of God. So those are the three expressions of a divine design. The family is protected by a husband, wife, a covenant blood covenant covering. And so the Bible says in Malakai, God hates divorce because he’s looking for godly seed. And so that godly seed, he is primarily protected and provided by this covenantal covering well, there’s also a divinely designed covenantal covering for the city. And that’s the LOC of the church. The church was designed by God to be a protection. And so we have the civic of the church component and then the civil government, civil government is also ordained of God.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (03:49):
Civil government is a part of the kingdom of God. It’s, it’s a divine design. So a lot of people shy back from civil governments and the last of the devil, you know, that’s dirty, that’s politics, but God’s designed is that we pray for and get godly people into government because if a godly person is like in the old Testament, when a godly King arose, the whole nation could transform. So if you had the King fearing God, and you had the ministry or the priesthood Aaron’s family, if they were fearing God and walking, you have the elements of potential reformation revival could break out. If it was an ungodly King, the nation would quickly turn away from God. So the laws and the spiritual influence of the civil government arena plays a large part and the spiritual atmosphere of, of the nation or the city.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:45):
Talk to me about these, these two arms of God, the church arm, and then the government arm, how are they supposed to work together and interact?

Jesse Leon Rodgers (04:56):
That’s a great question. And, and when you think about the nature of God and him being in government, he is the government, the government rests upon Christ’s shoulders. And so the civil government, I call it the right hand of God. It’s like in the right hand of God, you have a sword and civil government. Paul said to the Roman church, they are the ministers of the Lord ministers of righteousness. They bear the sword, not in vain, there for justice and judgment and equity and public civility. The purpose of civil government is to keep the peace and to keep justice. The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy and joy. Yes, yes. Amen. And so, so if there’s injustice, if there’s ungodly leadership in civil government, Solomon told us the people will groan when the righteous rule, the people rejoice, there’s joy, but when the wicked rule, there’s groaning, there’s moaning because of the injustice and the inequities.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (06:01):
And so God, the right hand is the civil government. And God’s left hand is the church, the, the spirits. We don’t typically think of church in government, but it’s spiritual government. The ekklesia the word that Jesus used it, that was a governmental gathering when the church came or when the sin of the citizens of a Greek city state came out in public and they gathered as a result of the call to gathering. That was the ekklesia. And when they came together, they governed, they could declare war conscript soldiers they could make public policy. The ekklesia was the governing component of a Greek city state. And so Jesus said, I’m going to build my accuracy. It’s going to be a spiritual government. And when they gather they can govern when they gather there’s a, there’s a deposit of God’s governmental authority in the spiritual dimension that allows them to rule. So that’s the two components the right hand and the left hand of God in government.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:04):
So let’s connect these important principles of city elders to evangelism. This is the evangelism podcast. We love talking about evangelism and reaching people for Jesus. And these are actually connected. You you’d be surprised. And so there, there’s a passage that you mentioned a little bit ago in first Timothy one. Could, could you read that passage and show how these connect?

Jesse Leon Rodgers (07:34):
Certainly I was kind of, I was astounded that Paul would tell Timothy, I exhort, therefore, first of all, of utmost importance, supplications prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men, for Kings, for those that are in authority so that we can live a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God, our savior, who will have all men to be saved, to come to the knowledge of the truth. So in that passage, Paul is saying, it’s, it’s critical. It, matter of fact, he said, this is top priority. This is number UNO here, pray for everybody, but especially Kings. And those that are in governmental authority, because God would have all men to be safe. The spiritual climate that is, is largely determined by two elements, civil government, and the church society is, is largely made of there other elements, but largely those two components, the laws, the justice system, the police system how you keep peace. And the other element of course is the church. So you’re, you’re right, Daniel and, and, and I had not made it in those terms. When you spoke earlier, there is a direct connection between the state of the civil government and the effectiveness of evangelism one affects the other.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:03):
Yeah. And we’ve seen this in a lot of the different countries that we’ve gone to. If there is peace in the nation, if there is righteousness and justice in the nation, then it is possible to preach the gospel. And it is possible for revival to happen for people to start being saved. But if the government is, has a lot of corruption, if there are issues with religious freedom where the government cuts off religious freedom, then it becomes very difficult to preach the gospel and for people to be saved. And so if we’re going to go out and minister to people first, we need to pray for our leaders, those who are in the government, those who are in authority, so that we can have peace in the society. And so that we can lift up Christian values what are, what are some of the values that you feel that are important for city elders to defend?

Jesse Leon Rodgers (10:03):
Well, we feel the primary target of, of the adversary is the family. We see this in the, in the wicked influence of those that are attempting to and confound those that have gotten empower in, in the United States government, the, what are they targeting? The family, the identity of children, the sexual orientation, Satan wants to bind people. And one of the easiest ways to target and snare a soul is to confuse and bind them in their sexuality. And so the, the civil government has targeted the family. We know that socialism and the atheism, they, they target children even from first grade and even preschool, they wanna confuse their, their origins, you know, make them think, Hey, I’m the product of an evolutionary process. If they can’t get them at their origins, then they get them in their identity, you know, confuse it, make them think there’s a potential of 52 different sexual modes, you know, that you can be in or you can transition from one to the other and back and forth rather than as God’s design male and female gender.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (11:14):
And so civil government holds such powerful keys legislatively. This is something that the Lord just recently brought to my attention. The reason Paul told Timothy pray, first of all, for these government officials is because civil government holds the key to a law. They can make your life a living. Haiti’s just by making laws, they can tax you into oblivion. They also hold the power of the key of opening and closing spiritual doors. A godly leader can sign one law and stop money’s flowing for aborting children, or he can turn that around and flow all kinds of money and influence and power. So the reason civil government is so critical is, is because they hold the key to legislation. They hold the power of the pin. They open and close spiritual doors, demonic influence when, when an ungodly leader rises to power, they can open up the entire nation to demonic influence, or they can close that door simply by the positions they take legislatively. So yeah, the civil government has a direct bearing. So back to your original question, we want to protect the family. We want to protect life. We want to protect marriage. And it, isn’t an interesting that that ungodly civil government attacks all three of those life marriage, sexual identity and orientation. And so it’s, it’s the adversary can work powerfully either through godly government or ungodly covenant.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:55):
And then I would say also it’s important to protect Liberty. Yes, because without Liberty, we can’t practice our religion without Liberty. We don’t have the ability to, to speak freely. And in our nation, this is, this is an issue right now, especially first amendment issues, where, where there are certain things that are being forbidden to be said, yes, and you can’t say them. And people talk about the first amendment and they say that only applies to the government. But what we’re seeing is on social media, liberal companies that control social media companies are shutting down the voices of Christians and shutting down the voices of people that would uphold righteousness in our nation. I read a article just yesterday about how focus on the family, which is a great organization, was just removed their rights to post on Twitter. Because something they said about transgender that was involved in the government, and this is a serious issue. And if we don’t stand up as a nation and say, we refuse to allow our rights to be taken away from us, then we will lose.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (14:15):
Yes, yes. The the critical component of the gospel is your voice. It is preaching the gospel. And so if the, if the voice and the vote are altered and people are stifled and, and we have canceled culture trying to take the voice of the church awake, closed the church down, isn’t that amazing in America the, the liquor stores open the marijuana stores open, but the church we cannot we cannot allow it to be open. And, and what’s amazing is, and this is how critical spiritual component is in terms of Liberty. Even if you could go to church in California, they said, you cannot sing. You know, you can go to church, but you cannot sing. I mean, this is like Exodus 13 being played out all over again. They said, we’re going to worship. And Pharaoh says, no, you’re not going to worship.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (15:11):
You’re not going to worship in Egypt. You know? And so there’s this battle going on because worship releases the power of the spirit worship creates the spiritual atmosphere needed for evangelism Liberty in voice, Liberty, protecting your Liberty. Protecting our liberties is also protecting the gospel because civil Liberty and religious Liberty are the two, two parallel tracks that freedom run on. If you lose religious Liberty, your civil liberties are soon behind. If you lose civil liberties, your religious liberties are shouldn’t behind. So we’ve got to protect religious Liberty and civil Liberty because there are two pair they’re the right hand and left hand of God,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:55):
Both needed. Yeah. Freedom of speech is so vital right now, especially for the evangelist. The evangelist is one who speaks and, and calls people to Jesus. And the problem is if they can remove the freedom of speech from somebody powerful, like Donald Trump, by taking away his Twitter feed, then they can remove you. They can remove me. They can remove anyone for any reason that they want. And so I think one of the key issues we have to stand up for is freedom of speech in our nation that not just freedom on the sidewalk, but freedom in what has become the public square of our nation, the social media companies, because that’s where our nation goes to fellowship. That’s where we go to debate ideas to talk, to encourage one another. And especially during these times of COVID people, aren’t meeting together face to face as much as they did previously. And so the place for them to interact is on social media. And so we have to stand up for the right of people to be able to say what they want to say and for the Christian, right. To be able to say, this is right, this is wrong. This action is on biblical. This is what we,

Jesse Leon Rodgers (17:17):
Yes, yes. Amen. Yeah. The law of the Lord civil law, God, God intends for there to be peace. And the civil arena, civil government is such a critical component of evangelism. As you know, I know we’ve traveled to many nations in the nations where there’s not religious freedom. There are spiritual and the civil government component plays such a critical role in that. We were talking about earlier, before we came on the program that when Satan tempted Jesus he didn’t offer him the soles of the earth. He offered him the kingdoms, the domains of authority, the spheres of authority. He showed him the kingdoms of the earth in a moment’s time and said, I’ll give you all of these. If you’ll just bow down and worship me. Now, we know that Jesus was coming for souls. He came to seek and to save that, which was lost.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (18:15):
He came for the harvest. That’s the reason he came is to redeem. So why is Satan offering him these spheres of authority? These Basileus is the Greek word, the kingdoms of the earth. And the reason is whoever controls, the kingdoms gets the souls. If you control civil government, you have the, the, the ability to manipulate and to influence and to legislate. And so civil government is isn’t is a fundamental element in releasing the harvest. And that’s what this ministry of, of Daniel King is all about releasing the harvest of the earth, putting the sickle into the souls of the earth. And so we’ve got to engage in civil government to maintain the freedom, to preach the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:03):
I’ll ask you two controversial questions. One is about Donald Trump and one is about Joe Biden. Okay. So during the presidency of Donald Trump, some people accused Christians of compromising their values by voting for a man who had been divorced several times, and who has been known to speak crassly on occasion. Do you think that Christians are hypocrites for claiming to be values voters and then to vote for someone who doesn’t reflect Christian values? What would you say

Jesse Leon Rodgers (19:37):
Optimally? Every Christian would want someone to vote for and to be in office who expressed that not just the values of Christians, but the spirit of nature the testimony, the the lifestyle. And so Donald Trump is an enigma. His past life, you know, the way he lived w large and loose was such a contrast to where he would govern. It shocked everyone, everyone, even the conservative Ted Cruz governor from Arkansas

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:19):
Huckaby, Huckaby,

Jesse Leon Rodgers (20:19):
Governor Huckabee, they are all shocked at how conservatively Donald Trump is governing. So in terms of a president, I want a president who stands from my values, even if he personally doesn’t demonstrate those in his personal life. Now there for us as Christians, that’s a contrast, and there’s a discrepancy there because what we S the truth we stand on, it should be the truth we live, but Donald Trump has governed more conservatively than anyone ever imagined. He’s been the most bold president for life and defending life than any president in our history, even, even stronger than Reagan president Trump’s first act as the new setting president was to sign an executive order to cut off the funding for abortion around the world. He cut that money off. Incidentally. The first thing that Joe Biden did was re-enact and release that money for abortions. Americans are not only going to be paying for abortions here in our nation. Americans are paying for abortions around the world because of our tax man,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:28):
Which is a tragedy. It is okay. Here’s the second controversial question. Joe Biden often emphasizes that he is a devout Catholic yet just in this first little week of his presidency. We’ve seen that he’s for abortion. He’s for homosexual marriage. He’s for transgenderism, that, that people who are born men can turn into women and vice versa. So what response should Christians have to his presidency?

Jesse Leon Rodgers (22:01):
Well, as you know, this is the most chaotic time. One of the most chaotic times in American history probably equal to, you know, the atmosphere before the civil war. There is such a, there is such a polarization in our nation right now. And Joe Biden obviously does not carry the values of the Catholic church. He cares the names. Matter of fact, the New York times said that Joe Biden is the most religious president in history. Well being religious and being a Christian are two as we know, are two different things. And so the majority of the executive orders, which is such a Joe Biden, is trying to govern by Fiat by executive order. It’s almost like attempting to be a King. The most of executive orders in the first two weeks of any presidency, previous to Biden has been five.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (22:56):
Joe Biden’s signed 32 executive orders his first week. And so he’s trying to govern by bypassing the both houses of Congress and trying to govern by, by legislative Fiat, attempting to legislate from the executive branch of the government. And so he’s out of control and, and the old, the anchor that we have right now that will preserve the nation is the fact that we have five conservatives on the court. That’s the only anchor we have because they have basically both houses of Congress, the executive branch. And so they’re going to try to pass every kind of wicked legislation that they could possibly get through. HB. One is ungodly HB five targets, the church and religious freedom will put people in jail for preaching against homosexuality, the way the Scandinavian countries have gone. And Canada has gone and has virtually made it a hate crime to even speak out against homosexuality over the next couple of years, we’re going to find out that this administration, the Biden administration is, is not only targeting churches, but targeting pastors specifically to try to close their mouth and keep them from speaking the truth.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:11):
So this is a time I think we really need to pray for the president, for the members of Congress, for the Senate, for the judicial system. We need prayers right now, because even if they come in with the intention of doing something that’s on biblical, I pray that God would turn their hearts towards God and that they would stand up for righteousness. Even if that wasn’t their first intention you and I have a mutual fan, a friend, Jason Rapport, who is a Senator in Arkansas and a great man of God, and also believes strongly in the importance of, of, of Christians being involved in government. And he’s been attacked a lot by atheists. They’ve sued him for various reasons, and they’ve really been attacking him. And so I’ve been watching what the atheists have been saying about him. And so atheists they’re complaining about Christian nationalism, Christian nationalists, and that’s their term for people like you and me who would think that Christians should have a voice in government. And they say it’s important to keep the church out of government to keep a separation between church and state. And so what response would you have to atheists who would say that you have no place to say anything about government?

Jesse Leon Rodgers (25:39):
Well, the institutional church itself organizationally does, does not have the biblical or constitutional right to enforce its dictates upon civil government, but the, the atheist don’t just want the church out of government. They want God out of government. They want to keep anyone that’s in government from exercising, their rights speaking, their their mind or speaking biblical principle as you and I both know this nation was founded not only on godly principles, many of the founding documents the original documents, even before the constitution or the declaration of independence, the governments that were being established in the colonies were primarily influenced by the pastors. It was the preaching of the pastors. And so our declaration of independence acknowledges God, five times that we have been created. Not that we evolved that, that these rights are civil liberties come from God, not from man.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (26:48):
And so the, the radical atheists, they want to excise God completely out of government. They want to completely sterile government. As a matter of fact, when they call they call it progressive or secular progressives, the word secular means without religion or without God. And so they want a godless government and everyone knows or should know when you take God out of government and government becomes God, you’re looking at tyranny. You’re looking at persecution. So what part of city elders role is to see to it that God does not get excised out of government to put God back into government. And so the, the, the government that does not acknowledge God attempts to become God. And so Jason our, our brother in Arkansas who started the national association of Christian legislators leaders. Yes. that what an incredible organization. And we need to see that organization going across the nation, as well as city elders.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:55):
Let’s, let’s, let’s talk about city elders from a practical viewpoint. Give me your vision for what city elders could become. I know you’ve been meeting with key leaders here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and now you’ve been setting up city elders and various counties across Oklahoma and it’s been growing. So, so tell me what that looks like in, in, in the years to come, what you see elder city elders becoming

Jesse Leon Rodgers (28:25):
What we want the city elders is a component of a civil government leaders, the church or church leaders and business leaders, the three, three components of eldership in a city. And what we do is we go in and try to identify who are some of the key gatekeepers who acknowledged God, who loved the Lord, who do try to govern their life by biblical principles, identify those key people. What we talk about a core for if, if in a County seat, we can identify four leaders who are anointed, who are experienced men that have walked with God for some time and have tenure. If we can identify some key leaders in that County seat, bring them together, have them begin to pray together and then identify people in the civil government component. Is there a civil government leader, a mayor a justice, a an attorney maybe even the someone on the city council who loves God and then bring them together at the table to, to become the spiritual governing council of the city. Not just the church, not just the but there, there is. And you made reference to this while ago, in terms of civil government, there is a spiritual component to civil government.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:51):
Yeah. I heard you say that wherever there’s a municipality, there is a principality. What does that mean?

Jesse Leon Rodgers (29:56):
Well, wherever you’re going to find spirit, a civil government, there’s going to be spiritual influences behind it, trying to control it. So civil government is either going to be controlled by spiritual leaders who acknowledged God will, which will be backed up by the angelic and the spiritual kingdom of light, or they will be civil government will be controlled by the godless. And if their country, if civil governments controlled by the godless, you’re going to have demonic influence. You’re going to have a and liberties taken and freedoms excised. And so, yes, we’re wherever there’s a municipality, there’s going to be a principle. There’s going to be spiritual influences behind that person trying to bring the people into.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:44):
So if someone wants to get involved with city elders and start a group like this in, in their municipality or their County seat, where could they find more information about you? What’s your website

Jesse Leon Rodgers (30:59):
City elders.com. And they can also contact us directly@cityeldersatgmail.com. And so that’s how they can touch base with us.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:10):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today on the evangelism podcast. Thank you, Daniel.

Jesse Leon Rodgers (31:15):
And God bless your efforts around the world.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:18):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And what we found is that as we go to different nations of the world, it takes us an average of about $1 for every person we’re able to reach with the gospel. And so some countries are more expensive. Some countries are a little bit less expensive, but on average, we’ve invested about $1 for every person we’re able to lead to Jesus. So today I’m asking you to go to my website, King ministries.com and give $1, $2, $5, become a monthly partner, help us to lead people to Jesus. Imagine you can start a party in heaven with just $1. Also go to Apple iTunes, leave us a review for the evangelism podcast with Daniel King. So lots of people can find this evangelism podcast. God bless you

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:13):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Rob Welch has developed an innovative method of discipling new believers called T4T also known as Training for Trainers. Today he shares about how he got started in evangelism and about how he follows up on the people who get saved at his festivals.

In 2001, when Rob Welch surrendered to God’s call on his life, he left the business world, sold his home and enrolled in a master’s program at Wheaton College. On completion of his studies, he received his Master’s Degree in Missions and in 2004 was ordained as an evangelist. For the next three years, Rob served as Evangelist-in-Residence at the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College. In 2006 Rob followed God’s leading and established For His Glory. Since its inception the Lord led For His Glory to share the Gospel with over 4 million people with 840,087 committing their lives to the Lord Jesus and 259,421 believers trained to make disciples who make disciples.

What is T4T? Training for Trainers (T4T) disciple-making model. You can find more about it here: https://forhisglorymin.org/training-for-trainers-t4t

Why Disciple Making Matters:

1. This is very important to God. One of the last instructions Jesus gave His disciples was to “go and make disciples of all nations”. This clearly means that the Lord expects us to be disciple makers.
2. Disciple making is very effective. The early followers of Jesus focused on making disciples and evangelized the entire known world in a lifetime!
3. When disciples train others it leads to multiplication. When disciples are trained on “how” to train others to make disciples, their impact on God’s kingdom multiplies.

Website: https://forhisglorymin.org/ 

Daniel King is often called The Evangelism Coach because of all the evangelists he talks to on The Evangelism Podcast.

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Rob Welsh has developed an innovative method for discipling new believers called T for T also known as training for trainers today. He shares about how he got started in evangelism and about how he follows up on the people who get saved.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:16):
His festivals. Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:54):
Evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King and I am super excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest. Rob Welsh is a full-time evangelist back in 2001. He surrendered his, his life to God’s call. He left the business world. He sold his home and he immediately enrolled in a master’s program at Wheaton college. And then he did his master’s degree in missions and was launched out into full-time evangelism. And so, Rob, thank you so much for joining me today.

Rob Welch (01:30):
Great to be here with you, Daniel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:31):
So tell Me a little bit about your history. That sounds pretty intense. You left the business world, sold your home and launched out into ministry. What was that?

Rob Welch (01:41):
Well, it was kind of like a wrestling match and the Lord pin me I had four main idols of why I felt I couldn’t do God’s will. And one by one, he stripped me of them. And in essence, he asked me, is this your daughter? Am I? And one by one, I had to lay down my idols. And finally he brought me to surrender and that was in October of 2001 and never looked back.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:09):
And so after you did your master’s degree in missions, you served as an evangelist in residence at the Billy Graham center at Wheaton college. So, so what was that like? What are some of the things you learned from Wheaton college and learn from being around the Billy Graham center, which of course has got that beautiful library and museum up there, which I’ve gone through several times. Just looking at the history of Billy Graham. It’s always inspiring. Always makes me want to be an evangelist every time I’m there.

Rob Welch (02:39):
Yeah. Glad you are. It was it was interesting because as a fellow of Angelist, you know, we, we were made, I think for the field and it, it was hard for me to it was great and it was really challenging at the same time. And I knew God had me there for a season for, for what he’d call me too. And, and for my, my future wife who, I didn’t know who that would be immediately, but God, God brought my wife to me while I was serving there. And, and so so it was really good and I’ve met some amazing people, learned a lot. And at the same time, I, I just struggled being in an academic environment. Mckenna was trying to keep my head down and I’m not gonna do much trouble. But, but it was a great place, I think for me to have a platform and to be exposed to some wonderful ministries, got to go to Billy Graham’s last crusade in New York city in 2005, that was really special and went to a couple of Franklin Graham’s festivals. And I worked with students in evangelism there, encouraging them in evangelism and mentoring and going out and doing it. So it was a good experience. And then God led me to start for his glory. So, so it was the right transition, I think, from the, from the business world and being in school to eventually leading the ministry, God had called me to, so it worked out well.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:06):
So you launched for his glory back in 2006. And since then you’ve been traveling to a bunch of different nations doing large evangelistic crusades. Has it been mostly in Africa? What are some of the countries that you’ve been to?

Rob Welch (04:23):
Well, I ministered in India seven times, but it’s been a while since I’ve been there with the current conditions there it’s, it’s not as open to get in as it was. When I started 2006 or 2012, I went there a total of seven times, five times in the South and twice in the North. And I’ve also been to Sri Lanka and New Mexico then the Haiti right after the earthquake been to Columbia, South America, a couple of times in Argentina and ministered a lot in Africa. And really, I would say since 2008, almost all of our ministry really has been there. And that’s really where our focus is. We have a regional team there and right now that’s really, everything is poured into Africa. Eastern central Africa is where we’re administering.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:15):
And tell me about some of what you’ve been seeing God do there in Africa.

Rob Welch (05:21):
Well, really, and I know you see this to Daniel, but it’s so much like the book of acts. I know you see this a lot at, at, at your crusades, our festivals, we really see God move. It’s like Peter getting up at Pentecost, preaching the gospel. And we, we usually see most of the people responding. So often, especially in Congo, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, they’re just so hungry and ripe and ready. So we’re seeing an overwhelming response to the gospel, a great spiritual hunger. And we’re also seeing God working. Miraculously are lots of people that are set free from demon possession. We saw a lot of that, our last mission, a couple months back in Tanzania so many people delivered and, and many, many people healed. So it’s really the, the book of acts and we get to be a part of it and see God doing more and more. So it’s exciting stuff.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:19):
Now I saw that recently you were in the city of Goma Congo, which really caught my attention because Goma is the place where I met my lovely wife, Jessica. I was wanting to learn how to do crusade evangelism. And so there was a, a Canadian evangelists, Peter younger, and who I wanted to learn from. So I called him his office up in Canada and said, can I come in and meet you? And he said, I’d love to meet you, but don’t come to Canada. Come meet me in Goma Congo. So I got on the plane, flew all the way to Rwanda and then went through the Hills of Rwanda all the way there. And my wife was the one who was assigned to take care of the VIP guests. And so she met me right there on the border between Rwanda and in Goma and picked me up. And at that time, Goma was a very difficult city. There’s a volcano there that had recently erupted. The entire city was covered in black. Is it still that way?

Rob Welch (07:25):
There’s the, the, the lava is still there. Yeah. And it, you know, that doesn’t go away, you know, so it’s it’s there and it’s still a rough city and that hasn’t changed either.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:38):
I remember when we would take a shower, the lava dust would just pour off of our bodies and you’d have to shower for several minutes before the water stopped being black, going down the drain.

Rob Welch (07:51):
No, we didn’t have that. You know, at least that it’s settled. When, when were you there? What year?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:56):
Well, we’ve been married 13 years. And so it was two years before that it was about 2006, something like that.

Rob Welch (08:06):
Yeah. So we were just there in 2019. So, so you have a lot of dust had settled, but the lava’s still there. So it’s okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:17):
Tell, tell me about the results your, your newsletter said that you had 75,369 people receive Christ during your, your five days there. That’s amazing.

Rob Welch (08:28):
You know, it’s interesting Daniel, there was a not a good thing, but there was the Ebola scare going on. And, and, and we had a couple of cases of Ebola right before we came. So there was a real challenge just getting in the country. And there was a lot of fear, like what’s going on now with COVID for so many people, there was so much fear. We struggled fact crossing the border, the rewind days, a border officer said he wasn’t going to let us back through. And I was like, that’s fine. Just let us get, get across the border because we did the same route you did going up through Wanda. And he said, he wasn’t gonna let us back through. And I thought, well, we’ll reroute getting home and we’ll get our team home and like her team in Africa. And so they just, we got to get across the border if you’re not gonna let us, and we’ll go through consortia, we’re gonna find a way I didn’t say that, but I’m thinking we’re getting there one way or the other, we got to get the gospel to the folks there.

Rob Welch (09:29):
So there was this huge fear. And in fact there was so much hand-washing and, and the taking your temperature and all that, you know, it’s not all that different than what’s going on now. But there was fear in the city. And so many people kept from coming to the festival because of fear of Ebola. And yet as, so the crowd was probably a third of what we were expecting. I’m just being very open here, but yet almost everybody that came responded. So you had really committed believers that came Daniel and, and they, they were all in for Jesus. You, you know, the time you minister, you know, those folks, but they’re in life or death, they’re following Jesus. So they were there and their counseling, they did an amazing job and all that, the people that were lost and hurting and broken that wanted God came.

Rob Welch (10:22):
And these are not the church folks. I can assure you that when almost all of them responded, we had a militia leader come to Christ and his friend had just come to Christ a few weeks before. And it was starting to do a T for T group, which maybe we’ll get to talk about in a bit, but he was started to a discipleship group and his friend who had been in the militia with him he invited him to come. And, and so, so Thomas came and I ended up preaching on Zachias and you know, the story, well, we’re Zed Kia says timing, the Sycamore fig tree to see Jesus as he’s going through Jericho. Nobody’s laughing, man. So I started climbing the speaker tower, you know, you know, the speaker towers and yeah. And me being Mr. Mr. Nimble I’m a little big guys.

Rob Welch (11:09):
I can see that on the screen, but I’m not a small man. So I go up on a speaker tower a little bit and to illustrate Zachias you know, climbing this tree to see Jesus. And, and when I’m preaching from the tower Thomas was converted because he thought that’s me, I’m Zacchaeus. You know, cause he he’s hurting people. He’s robbing him all sorts of bad stuff. And he’s thinking I’m Zach is I’m that man, I need Jesus. And he didn’t wait for a call or anything. He just surrendered right there. And and after that he told the mayor that he had just come to Christ and mayor of course knew who this man was. And the mayor Daniel had dealt with. And think of the environment we, we deal with here in other places, the mayor had the governor and like kind of his, his his cabinet go with him to pressure the mayor to stop the festival.

Rob Welch (12:14):
And the mayor said, no, I gave a promise to the men of God and I’m not going to take the blessings of God away from the city. So he stood up against the governor and all of his staff who are trying to bully him into pulling the plug on the festival. So when Thomas comes to Christ, he tells the mayor and the mayor says, we got to get your story out and tell everybody. So here’s this man who’d been harassing the people and leading an opposition grew up in there over 130 militia groups, just outside of Goma. You know, the, you know, the environment, Daniel, a lot of folks listening don’t, but it’s a rough place. And so this guy then started going around with the mayor to tell what Jesus had done in his life. So that’s the power of the gospel. And he’s one of the 75,000 plus that came to Christ. And now they’ve got like 30,000 people that have been trained to multiply it, discipleship groups in there to the attempt generation. We just got a report today. We get monthly reports on results. So, so God’s launched a movement in that city. It’s bringing transformation. It’s really awesome.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:16):
That’s so wonderful to hear. So you mentioned T4T, which stands for training for trainers, and this is a major component of your ministry and how you follow up on the people who get saved at, at the festivals. So tell me, how does T 4 T work, how do you train trainers?

Rob Welch (13:38):
What really Daniel, it’s going back to the new Testament model. So it’s not actually something new. It’s how the apostles did it and how you see it happening in the book of acts. You look at acts chapter two, you know what well, I’m sure you’ve probably preached on a lot is have I, you got Pentecost. And then you got the, the early church. They devoted themselves to the apostles, teaching the fellowship, the breaking of bread and prayer. You see that new Testament model. This is just getting back to that. And what it does is it’s small group, how’s church, cell group, whatever you want to call it, but it’s small group discipleship multiplication. And it’s just getting back to what we see going on in the new Testament. And second Timothy, two, two, where Paul says to Timothy, what you’ve heard from me in the presence of many witnesses and trust a faithful man who in turn will be able to teach others.

Rob Welch (14:30):
So what we’re doing is we’re equipping every believer to be a multiplying disciple maker and do it in small groups. And people enter into these groups and they’re discipled, but then they, many of them immediately start reaching others, seeing them come to Christ and then discipling them. So let’s say you lead me and let’s say eight or 10 people. So think eight to 12, or at most 15 people or six to 15 people, you led me and a bunch of others to Christ because you’re an evangelist. You start training us. And so I’m in your group. I stay in your group, but I go out immediately evangelize and I reach another eight, 12 people. I started discipling them while you’re discipling me. And then the people that I’m discipling, then they go out and evangelize the disciple others. And once you get to the fourth generation of these groups, a movement’s been launched and that can reach millions of people. And the vision God’s given us is to see a billion souls reached eternally with the gospel and that’s through these disciple-making movements. So T for T or training for trainers is really just going back to the new Testament model we see at work in the book of acts and it’s empowering every believer to be a multiplier, say, God can use you, tell your story, tell what Jesus has done. Invite people to receive Christ and then disciple them as you’re being discipled. So it’s rapid disciple multiplication and small groups. So that’s going on,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:57):
Tell me how it works logistically, because when you go in for the crusade, you’re, you’re just there for a week for a short period of time. Are you doing intensive discipleship training that week and then leaving trainers that are starting those groups out?

Rob Welch (16:15):
No, we’re looking at the way we do it. Daniel, our, our model really is probably seven or eight trips. And I’d encourage you at other evangelists. I think this is a way we need to multiply our ministry. So we’re doing two or three often three training trips beforehand, where you literally end up training thousands of people to multiply and they start doing it. And if you can get to the third generation and by that, I mean, the first groups are first-generation once they start a second generation, when’s the second generation starts third. But if you can get a couple generations down, all of these discipleship groups going at the same time, you pretty much have the net ready for the harvest. And you immediately want to plug in the new believers that come to Christ at the festival, into these groups, because then they’ll start growing and multiplying.

Rob Welch (17:05):
So this is months before the festival that you have two or three, usually three trips. And they select the leaders who will be leading the movement. So they select the leadership team because this has to keep going after the festival. And most of the work is after the festival. The festival is just a launching pad for the movement. The engine is the T for T and those that are the parents that will lead it are the church leaders and those who lead in T for T they’re, the ones that shepherd the movement. And then you have a couple of followup trips after the festival to just ensure, you know, that it’s really been effectively launched. We have monthly tracking reports. So it’s, it’s really about a two year process if we’re doing it right. And, and we have to have a regional team to do it.

Rob Welch (17:55):
That’s why we’re just ministering in Eastern central Africa right now, because for our model to work effectively, there’s a lot of advanced work. There’s a lot of follow-up and there’s a lot of communication. So it’s a little different model than just focused on the events and the training around it. It’s, it’s kind of more of a holistic and more of a longer term approach. But the final point I make is you don’t want to go too long because this is empowering the believers there to lead it. And you don’t want to in any way, create dependence. So there’s wisdom and passing the Baton because it has to be theirs. They have to own it. They have to lead it. They have to know how to do it. And we just are in a support role after the festival to encourage them as it continues. So I hope that made sense, but that’s what it’s about.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:43):
So you are actually forming these groups long before the festival even happens before you, and you have a team. How many people do you have on your team there in Africa who are helping to organize everything?

Rob Welch (18:59):
Well, we have four plus we have a coordinator in the city we’re ministering in. So they’re coordinators working in different cities that we’ve previously administered in that are continuing the work. But we have four on our regional team that I would call full time with us that are working with us in that. And we, we need to add some more and we’re looking to add a second team this year because right now we can do two missions at most three missions a year with the way we’re doing it. We want to double that as soon as possible, because you know, like, you know, we want to reach everybody, our goal, every so we’re with you there, you know, we’ve got a world of rage, so we’re totally with you there, brother. And I appreciate your ministry, but yeah, so we’ve got a multiply and we’re looking to get our second team, hopefully going this year so we can see our impact expand.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:52):
Awesome. You’re you’re, you’re obviously concerned about more than just making converts. You are working to make disciples. Why do you feel that disciple-making is such an important part of the evangelism process?

Rob Welch (20:07):
Well, if we’re doing it right, I think it needs to be central because Daniel has gifted as you are. And I know you’re anointed when you preach. And I know you see, God work a lot of miracles when you pray. I see God working powerfully too. You know, there’s only so much we can do those of us that are called like you or me as proclamation of Angeles. I think we need to seek to activate every believer. And you see that, you know, the scriptures well in Ephesians four, that the office of the evangelist along with a possible prophet pastor and teacher is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. And as evangelists, I don’t think we’re doing our job. If we’re not equipping believers to multiply and make disciples. Now, I’ll be honest. I love preaching. I am not ashamed of that.

Rob Welch (20:57):
I love preaching in front of large crowds, the bigger, the better, the more people that come to Christ, the better I get really excited like you do. I jump up and down. They all think I’m African. My skin color kind of says something else, but in my heart, I think I’m African, but, but you know, I’m there for eight days, nine days, and they’ve got a mission that goes on for the rest of their lives. And if we’re not giving them that, then I think we’re, we’re not fulfilling our calling in the way we’re supposed to. So, so God put that on my heart. In 2004 and 2012, I finally saw the vehicle. And three years later, the 2015, we actually started executing it. So it took like 11 years from, Hey, we need to be watching movements to, okay. Here’s how and then, and doing it. But God’s been gracious in it. We’re staying at it’s really exciting.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:53):
We have a lot of different evangelists and missionaries that are listening to this podcast. What advice would you give to other evangelists, especially young evangelists who are just getting started.

Rob Welch (22:10):
I think you could give this to Dan. You know, we gotta stay the course and you know, it’s a marathon, I’m a talk to you and anybody else listening. That’s great, but you know how hard it is. And you know, the, the trials we go through and for anybody listening, brothers and sisters, this isn’t an easy call, but God who causes is faithful. So realize it’s really dependent on him and you’ve got to keep believing him. You know, I, I love this scripture in due season will reap. If we don’t give up, don’t become weary of doing good produce season. You’ll reap. If you don’t give up the call of an evangelist, we’ve got to persevere through trials, expecting them not to come is very naive. I have all these, I should know, better being close to 20 years in. You probably know better. Cause I think you’re smarter than I am, but I always hope that this mission will be easier than last. Do you ever have that Daniel or are you smarter than I am? Are you, are you not going to be honest and say, I hope, or it looks like things are going better here and I’m always hopeful. Maybe this mission will be easier and it like pretty much never is. Yeah. I know like persevere

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:24):
Sierra Leone this month with my friend Jones and we have to get four COVID tests too, before we get there. And two, before we come back, I mean, it’s doubled in difficulty.

Rob Welch (23:39):
Yeah. We had to do that going out and I got COVID last fall in my family too. So but yeah, it was it’s hard for our team the COVID stuff, but, but it just seems like when you think, Oh, this time it’s going to be easier. I think of the flesh. You want it easier? The Lord never said a BZ, but he promised to be with us. So I would say stay the course persevere and fix your eyes on Jesus. And remember that he’s faithful. It’s really not dependent on you. Your role is being faithful to him. He’ll work it out. I let me, let me end with this because I know our time’s about I had a vision where I was with the Lord. One time, this is going back and that’s not normal for me. Some people regularly have stuff, but I’m with the Lord in the car and I didn’t see him, but I’m with him.

Rob Welch (24:27):
He’s in the driver’s seat, I’m in the passenger seat. And I just told my partner at the time that God gave us the vision so we could do it. So here what I said, God gave us the vision so we could do it. So now here I am. After 20 days of fasting and praying, I just broken the fast and I have this vision of the Lord early in the morning, I’m with him in a car. And I see this little thing. I don’t see it clearly. It’s under the steering wheel, this, this little square. And the Lord speaks to me. He says, I show you the map so you can see where I’m taking you. Not so you can grab the wheel and try to drive there. See, I thought God was giving us the vision so we could do it. And he graciously said, no, it’s all me.

Rob Welch (25:15):
It’s all me here at Pasadena. I ain’t doing it. It’s kind of I’m with you. I’m doing it. I will accomplish my work. Cause I had this idea of me grabbing from the passenger’s seat, you know, grabbing, you know, 10 and two on the wheel from where I’m supposed to be sitting, just enjoying the view. I think we get caught up and I need to be reminded of that. He will do it. He is faithful. He’s never failed me. He never will. He doesn’t fail his people. We go through trials, but God’s faithful. He’s going to do it. We need to believe that. And just rest in him, abide in him. It’s his spirit working through us. It’s his gospel is bringing salvation and it’s just our job to believe him and be faithful and stay in the car. That’s as, I guess my last word for everybody, because it’s not an easy journey, but when the Lord’s driving, you know, he’s going to get there and you just gotta trust him. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:18):
So let Jesus drive the car. Well, if someone that’s listening wants to support your ministry or find out more information about the training for trainers discipleship program that you’ve put together, what’s your website. How could they get in touch with you?

Rob Welch (26:37):
Yeah, thank you. Cause I I’d love to get the materials we’re doing with T for T especially certainly welcome to support too. But boy, where these seeds multiply our website is for his glory, men.org. That’s F O R H I S G L O R Y M I n.org. So for his glory, men.org, and there’s a tab that’ll help on the equipping side. So we’ve got a lot of great material on T for T and anybody that wants to know more about T for T and how you can implement it in your ministry. I would love to talk to you personally, my partner, Mark Laveck, who is providing really our content on that would love to talk with you. So any way we can help you, we want to reach out to us and we’d love to encourage you and help you any way we can to see the kingdom multiply. Thanks for letting me be on today. Daniel, it’s good to see you. And I really appreciate your ministry and your faithfulness and your wife, Jessica, his faithfulness and the gospel and your kids who go with you sometimes. That’s that’s really exciting. Well, thank you

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:46):
So much for being on the evangelism podcast. God bless. Hi, I’m Daniel King. Thank you so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. I love going around the world, telling people about Jesus, but I can’t do it without people like you. See, every time we go to preach the gospel, we buy a plane ticket. We have to do advertising. We have to pay money to rent a sound system. And we’ve found that takes an average of about $1 for every person we’re able to reach for Jesus. And so I’m asking people to go to my website, King ministries.com and give at least $1 a month, just $1 a month. That’s less than the cost of a cup of coffee for $1 a month. You can start a party in heaven every single month. And while you’re at it, go to Apple iTunes and leave the evangelism podcast. A positive review. Your five star review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thanks for listening. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (28:52):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again that’s King ministries.com.

Why is it important for you to have a strategic plan for your ministry? What is a strategic plan? What elements are in a good strategic plan? Today I interview Dave Jones from the Luis Palau Association. He is an expert in strategic planning…

David has served with the Luis Palau Association for 42 years in numerous leadership roles including the Global Network of Evangelists (GNE). David coaches GNE members in evangelism, strategic planning, organizational development, board governance, finance, media relations, and opportunities for ministry collaboration. David is a member of the Christian Leadership Alliance (CLA), Evangelical Press Association (EPA), National Religious Broadcasters (NRB), and the Society of Professional Journalists. He has served on the CLA faculty as well as the NRB’s Television Commission. David has served on the boards of over a dozen international Christian ministries and currently serves on the boards of Need Him Global and SAT 7. He frequently consults with nonprofit organizations. Since 1997 David has served as Executive Director of the Palau Foundation for World Evangelism. He and his wife Gayle are members of Village Church where David has served as an elder. David & Gayle make their home in Beaverton, Oregon. They have two daughters and four grandchildren.

Questions for Dave Jones: 

1. You’ve helped quite a number of ministries with their strategic planning.  What is strategic planning?
2. What happens when we do not plan?
3. How does strategic planning relate to fundraising?
4. What is SWOT planning and why is it important?

Join the Global Network of Evangelists: https://www.evangelist.global 

Evangelism Coaching will help you be a better Evangelist

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Why is it important for you to have a strategic plan for your ministry? What is a strategic plan? What elements are in a good strategic plan today? I interviewed Dave Jones from the Luis Palau association. He’s an expert in strategic planning, and he’s going to answer all your

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:23):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelist

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:59):
As a podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And I’m also excited about coaching other evangelists and helping evangelists to become everything that God has called them to be. And one of the important parts of building a ministry is strategic planning, thinking strategically about your mission, about your goals, about your focus, about your core values, all the elements that go into strategic planning. And today we have an expert in strategic planning with us, Mr. David Jones. Thank you so much for being with me today.

Dave Jones (01:38):
Well, Daniel, it’s good to be with you, my friend, so appreciate you and appreciate these podcasts. So thank you for the privilege of being with you today. Thank you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
So Dave Jones is with the global network of evangelists. It’s a ministry of Luis Palau association. Louis plow of course, is a great evangelist. Originally from Argentina now lives in Portland. He’s done evangelism all over the world and they really have a heart for helping other evangelists. And they’ve had an organization now for quite a few years called the NGA, the next generation Alliance, raising up the next generation of evangelists. And now they’re transitioning the next generation Alliance into the global network of evangelists. And the goal is to, to build a network of networks, people all over the world who are interested in evangelism. And I’m very honored to be a part of the, the council for the global network of evangelists and, and Mr. Dave, you’ve really helped in developing that vision. Thank you for being here.

Dave Jones (02:45):
Well, thank you again, Daniel. Yeah. Good to be with you. And it’s really important topic. Strategic planning. It’s an area where a lot of evangelists and Christ centered organizations do welcome. Some, some help. They rec they, they recognize the importance of it and they want to do a good job.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:03):
So you’ve helped quite a number of ministries with their strategic planning. Let’s start at the beginning. What is strategic planning?

Dave Jones (03:13):
Well, you know, it’s, it’s a disciplined process where we’re an organization determines why it exists, where it’s going and how it’s going to get there. It’s, it’s a written statement. I think that’s one of the things a lot of ministries failed to do. They fail to recognize that a street change plan needs to be, needs to be in writing and it needs to be a living document that helps drive decision-making it’s, it’s, it’s simply a, just a written statement about, you know, why the ministry exists and where it’s going and, and how, how you’re going to get there. It’s I mean, it’s a roadmap prior, prior to these things, they all were, you get asked for directions somewhere, and someone actually talks to you and tells you how to get from point a to B, you know, in the old days they had these crazy, you know, printed maps, your younger viewers will know what I’m talking about.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:18):
You’re, you’re really starting to date yourself. I just ask Siri where I’m supposed to go. So, so what are some of the, the fruit of not planning if people don’t have a strategic plan, what does that do to their organization?

Dave Jones (04:34):
Yeah, I mean, without, without a plan, obviously there’s, there’s a lack of focus evangelist. I like to seize every opportunity without a written plan to run those opportunities. Through some framework, a planning framework, you just, you’ve got a huge lack of focus and direction. I believe it also limits it will place limitations on growth because it makes fundraising difficult when you don’t have a specific plan with quantifiable defined goals and results. It makes fundraising difficult. It creates disorganization too, especially, you know, for the, for the board and the board needs to be engaged in strategic planning, but creates a lot of disorganization because no, one’s too sure where, where the company or the ministry is heading. There’s it also, I mean, without a plan, it’s difficult to make decisions because you’ve got no real framework to make those decisions.

Dave Jones (05:42):
And I mean, I mentioned fundraising with, without, you know, some specific quantifiable goals and without a written plan, it, it hurts it places, limitations on what you’re talking to your about, which, which obviously hurts, hurts, hurts fundraising. I think the other thing too, without constantly working on your strategic plan organizations don’t know when it’s time to reinvent themselves or change maybe the methodology of, of doing things. I mean, the mission doesn’t change methods or methods do change. We certainly have seen that last in recent months as the world pandemic forced a lot of ministries to shift gears and do a lot more with digital evangelism so that, you know, planning a decision like that requires a shift in, in in direction and methodology. And that’s part of, you know, strategic planning know when it’s time to sort of reinvent yourself, but what are some of the benefits of doing strategic planning?

Dave Jones (07:00):
Well, it definitely, it provides focus. And I think it’s easy for, you know, a lot of Christian leaders. They have that entrepreneurial spirit, they’re visionary, they dream big dreams. They want to seize every opportunity and without a plan, you’ve got it just, it’s just difficult to make, make decisions. You’re kind of all over the, all over the map, as they say. I think it also, it definitely helps teamwork both with your, if you have a paid staff, your volunteers, your board, prayer partners, a plan where everybody’s on the same page and knows where you’re going is huge. I mean, imagine like a F well, this magical football game where the quarterback calls a play and, you know, the Senator says, Oh, I don’t like that play. I don’t want to snap it on three. I think I’ll snap it on to where the rider wide receivers is.

Dave Jones (07:54):
I don’t like that pass round. I think I’ll do something different. You know, you got to get everybody on the same, same page and the same, the same play. So I’ve been a written plan. Does give you some context and framework for making decisions, problem solving. I think it also makes it easier to create job descriptions for your board for your volunteers, for your staff. The, the, the orchestra, as they say, the orchestra now has one conductor and everybody is playing off the same song sheet, which is the written strategic plan. It definitely improves fundraising. No question about it. Cause you’re, you’re asking, making specific asks for specific goals and it just, it really facilitates of fundraising. I think the other thing a written plan done, right? It forces you to concentrate on your strengths as an organization, as an evangelist, as a ministry and, and, and reduce the, the weaknesses which is, which is also really important. And then I, I think it also forces you to address those really critical questions, like in light of the times and light of where we’re are right now, where do we want to be in 12 months, 24 months. And how are we going to get there?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:16):
So as you sit down to build a strategic plan for your ministry, there, there comes a hierarchy of planning. So at the top of the pyramid, you would have beliefs and then under that you would have values. Then you would have the mission of the organization. Then you would have some vision and objectives. Then you would set specific goals that you’re trying to accomplish, and then you would have policies and procedures and then specific activities and action plans for bringing it all to happen. So kind of talk us through that, that hierarchy and why each one of those are important. Like, like why is it important to first know the beliefs of your organization,

Dave Jones (10:02):
Lisa, those absolutes those almost like parcels CRE those they’re theological in nature. They’re, they’re in cement. They’re, non-negotiable, you’ve got to agree on what I mean for most organizations that they would call that their statement of faith. And it’s really important to document what are your beliefs? And like I said, once adopted, they should, you might review them from time to time, but with most organizations, the, the statement of faith it’s in cement and, you know, 10, 15, 20, 30, and the case of the organization I worked for 50 years later, we still have the same statement of faith. So, but it’s important that your constituents and prayer partners, I mean, it’s important that to know what, what your beliefs are, values are important to what,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
Well, let’s, let’s talk about beliefs for a second, like in my organization, we’re evangelistic in nature. And so the core foundation of our belief is that Jesus is Lord, and that every person has sinned and needs to cry out to Jesus in order to receive salvation for their sins. And we have been given a task, a mandate to go and to tell people about the salvation that comes through Jesus Christ. So that is our, our core belief. And we evaluate everything that we do based on that, that belief. And, you know, that’s a basic Christian belief, but, but we have adapted that for our organization. Okay. And so then out of that comes values, talk about values next.

Dave Jones (11:50):
Yeah. And values. Most organizations might have six or seven values. I mean, values might be things like excellence, prayer, innovation, integrity. I mean, there’s a lot, there’s probably a hundred different things that could be values, but what are the, what are those five or six really, really key key values. That again are pretty much in some that innovation may be one, a collaboration may be one, but they help again define who you are, that the, the culture of the organization, these, that these are, these are values that are just like non-negotiable it’s really important to have a conversation with the leadership of the the ministry, the board, what, what are our five or six really key values? For a lot of, a lot of ministries, you’ll see things like integrity, accountability excellence. And it’s important that they’re just not a name only

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:00):
It’s easy to say you value, integrity, but you gotta live it.

Dave Jones (13:04):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and the interesting thing is I know of a handful of big companies that had some that failed. They had horrific failures a couple of routes even around a business now. And I, I, I asked myself if they had really adhered to it, they’d really followed their core values. Would they still be in business today? I think for a couple and they probably probably would be. So, yeah, you don’t, you wonder if it was just a PR ploy or yeah. You don’t want to just agree on some values and then stick them in the file cabinet. They really need to be part of the culture. Right.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:45):
And then comes mission. What is the mission or the purpose of the organization?

Dave Jones (13:50):
Yeah, the mission is, you know, you gotta answer the question why you exist. I mean, the simplest way to do a mission statement is just to say, this organization, this ministry exists to, and you need to succinctly and specifically answer that question. I, I, I do find I mean, most today, especially because strategic plan, I mean, when I got into ministry there, wasn’t a lot of conversations about strategic planning. There wasn’t a lot written about it. That was, I got in ministry 42 years ago. I mean the last decade, especially last 15 years, lot of great, great material books, booklets seminars webinars. There’s a been a lot out there on strategic planning. You talked about the, you know, the pyramid, Daniel, the pyramid of, of planning and you’re, I would suspect your audience, people viewing this. They probably have done a pretty good job at the top half of the pyramid.

Dave Jones (14:52):
They can clearly tell you their beliefs, their core values. They can tell you what the mission statement is, why they exist. It’s when you start getting, moving down the pyramid, if things get a little more the planning process towards fall falling apart you guys, you’ve got to come up with, you know, some of those big, those big objectives that you’re pursuing and determine, you know, what, what, what are the outcomes, if you’re successful in accomplishing these objectives? You know, what outcomes, what changes are you bringing about in society? And then you’ve got to, you’ve got to drill down and get to some, those, those goals. I mean, you’ve got to come up with, you know, the common word is the, you know, smart goals and you know, specific, measurable, attainable, relevant time bound, you know, that the caustics smart. You’ve I think a lot of evangelists, they, they’re pretty good at, cause they’re visionary. They’re pretty good at the top part of that pyramid. But when it starts coming up with those smart goals, it gets a little starts getting a little challenging. They they get a little bored with it. And then, you know, then coming up with some action plans to accomplish those goals, then the process really starts with

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:18):
Vangelis. Always said, we’re going to reach the whole world, but you know, w we’re going to like, okay, now how do we bring that down to something specific we’re going to do this week to reach somebody for Jesus.

Dave Jones (16:29):
Yeah, exactly. You know yeah, I mean, taking that vision and evangelists are very visionary, very passionate about winning people to Jesus. But you’ve got to take the time to come up with those very specific goals. And the great thing about that too, Daniel, it enhances your prayer life. It really does. And it gives you a specific story to talk to your donors. I mean, it really helps fundraising. I mean, you know, someone who says, Hey, I’m going to Ethiopia this year, we’re going to do three missions. We’re going to train 5,000 believers in friendship evangelism. We’re trusting God for 50,000 decisions for Christ. We, we plan on, you know, dating 20 water Wells in areas where they got no clean water. I mean, when you start putting specific numbers, specific action plans, specific goals in place, one out of say, it enhances your prayer life.

Dave Jones (17:36):
But to now, you’re now you can, when you’re talking to a donor, you’re giving them a, this is why I need your financial support and help and prayers. Will you help us accomplish these specific goals? So I mean, strategic planning and fundraising do go hand in hand. I mean you know, after that, there’s, there’s, there needs to be at once the action plans are in place, obviously you’ve just, you’ve got to, I mean, day to day, you got to track this thing that you modify it. It’s gotta be when you come up, once you come up with your plan, it’s gotta be a living dynamic document. Now that’s something you do just for the sake of having done the exercise and then you stick it in a file cabinet and you don’t reference it again until 12 months later, we’re at an annual board meeting someone on the board says, Oh, what’s our strategic plan again.

Dave Jones (18:27):
Oh yeah, let me have, let me have someone go to the file cabinet and grab it. One of the questions I get asked a lot to Daniel now, now that there’s, so there’s a wealth of great material on strategic planning available. You know, people realize a little what planning models, the best. And my answer to that, the model is that that’s the best is the one you’re going to, that you’ll use. I mean, it’s the model that makes sense to you that you’re not going to just stick it, you know, the document of file cabinet, but it’s going to be a living dynamic document. So there are a lot of great models out there. Find one that makes sense. And and then implement it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:07):
The models that I really like was from a book called master planning by Bob Beale. I went through this a few years ago and it was really an excellent source of how to do strategic planning. Peter Drucker also has some excellent stuff on managing a nonprofit organization. Basically anything that Peter Drucker wrote is probably good to go through. And like you said, there’s a lot of other resources that are out there.

Dave Jones (19:34):
Yeah. And again, I would hope all of your podcast, viewers and followers, especially if they’re a leader of an organization would slow down, hit the pause button. And if they, if they haven’t done any reading or studying or looking into strategic planning that they would do so fine, find a, find a model or find a book, then just find something makes sense to you. I think one of the mistakes too, I’ve seen, I know I, I can think of organizations that they’ll bring in a, a consultant oftentimes pretty pretty hefty expense. And they’ll impose a model on the organization that just isn’t welcomed it. I mean, it doesn’t make sense to, to the leader and and they go to all the trouble to try to put a plan together based on a model that’s just not a good fit. So models are just models.

Dave Jones (20:38):
They’re just tools. So actually I, I was in a workshop, a few, it’s funny. I teach this stuff I love going to workshops about because you always learn something new. I was in a workshop a few years ago and the the teacher, he had a, he, he said, here’s how you can do a one-page strategic plan. And I thought, wow. And it was brilliant. I mean, it was just absolutely brilliant. I’ve used it with you know, some of the evangelists I work with cause it, it was simple, but it wasn’t simplistic. And I mean, what I liked about it is there on one page at Eden, you know, tape above your laptop or you know, by your desk, there’s the plan. And it just, you know, it enhances your prayer life and, and and it gives you again, like I said, it gives you some specifics to share with, you know, with your prayer partners.

Dave Jones (21:37):
I, I love it. I, I mean, I get a lot of prayer letters, missionary letters. I, I love it when I get a letter from a missionary that spells out some of their quantifiable goals. I know I, I’m a numbers guy and Hey, there’s another wrong numbers. There’s a book in the Bible called numbers. You know, there’s, you see a lot in the Bible belt, quantifiable results. So there’s nothing, nothing wrong about quantifiable results, but I love it when I get a prayer letter and the evangelists or the missionary, you know, are sharing some real specifics, specific, measurable goals that they’d like you to pray about. Maybe consider funding as a book, as opposed to a, I, this you’ll laugh at this. This is a true story. Years ago, I got a missionary letter, right. And I laugh every time I think about it.

Dave Jones (22:27):
It was, it was the saddest thing I ever read in my life. I mean, it just, the whole thing was negative. The children were sick. The dog had worms. They couldn’t afford a veterinary. And I’m thinking what, I’m sorry, your dog has worms, but you’re a missionary. I mean, you did you share Christ this month with anyone? Did you plant any churches into disciple staple? Anyone? Did you do any trainings? You know, so I think one of the real great benefits of Evan, a written plan, it it does facilitate fundraising and enhances your prayer life. No question about it. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:08):
Helps you to keep going. Even when the dog has worms,

Dave Jones (23:14):
[Inaudible]

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:14):
The tools that could be used in strategic planning is doing a SWOT analysis, which looks at strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. Could you tell us a little bit about what a SWOT analysis is and why it is important to do one for you?

Dave Jones (23:32):
I’m a huge fan of SWAT analysis. So like you said, the acronym or the caustic, SWAT SWT strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. So the strengths and weaknesses, an internal examination, you’re, you’re looking at the, your document of the strengths of your ministry and how you’re going to make sure they continue to be strengths and how you’re going to maximize those strengths. And then on the other side, you’re looking at what are the weaknesses, what are those areas that we really need to shore up that we need to make an improvement on? What are those weaknesses that are basically hurting our ability to accomplish our strategic plan? What I’ve worked with organizations on the SWAT analysis. I definitely spend time. Okay. Once there’s agreement, these are the weaknesses. Okay. What’s our plan. How are we going to, if I come back a year from now, how are we going to make sure this weakness isn’t on this list anymore?

Dave Jones (24:32):
What are we going to do to eliminate it? And whatever the situation problem is, what, you know, turn it into a strength rather than a weakness. So that’s the internal analysis, the ex the other side of it opportunities and threats. Yeah. What are, what are the opportunities out there available to the ministry that you need to really seriously look at and seize and take take advantage of the threats. I mean, oftentimes the threats, there’s not a lot you can do about it, but acknowledging that they’re there. I think one of the threats right now for evangelists is universalism. There’s just seems to be a growing this growing view, especially in, in America that because God is a good God which he is that in the end, everyone’s going to go to heaven. So why do we need evangelists? Why didn’t we need to preach the gospel? I mean, you know, in the end, it’s all gonna work out well, that’s, that’s a, that’s a serious failure.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:34):
It’s a stake in the heart of every evangelist. Why are you needed?

Dave Jones (25:38):
Yes. And I’ve had, I mean, I’ve had sincere, especially young people say that to me, my response usually is, do you really believe that? And they say, absolutely, yes, I do. And I said, well, if you really believe that, then God’s not a good God. And then they look at me kind of in shock. And I said, well, why would a good loving father have his son crucified on a cross? If it wasn’t necessary to me that that’s, that’s horrific. That’s terrible. That’s not, what’s good about that. So I mean, people make these people make these statements well being insincere, but you know, sincerely wrong. But I mean, you know, other threats that are out there, the economy could be a threat. There’s all kinds of threats. Sometimes you can minimize that threat. You can deal with it. I mean, you know, sometimes you can’t, but you need to be aware that these threats are out there cause they could have a negative impact on your ability to accomplish the mission.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:37):
Well, what other advice would you have for someone who wants to put together a strategic plan? How long should they sit down and think through it? Is this something that needs to be done yearly or is it something you do every few years?

Dave Jones (26:52):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I do like the idea of putting a two year plan together, but you need to, it needs to be a living dynamic document that you’re constantly tweaking looking at reviewing because I mean, conditions, change things happen. Listen, I mean, when, when COVID hit, I guarantee a lot of strategic plans were, were messed up. I mean, suddenly, especially for evangelist, she couldn’t do live events. You couldn’t travel to certain countries. I mean, you know, just, you know, a lot of strategic plans at that point just went out the window and people had to start all over. I think the, one of the positives of that is churches, missionaries, ministries, evangelists. They really stepped up in the area of digital evangelism, I think had it not been from COVID, we it’d probably be another five years from now, before the church is at where it is today.

Dave Jones (27:46):
And there were in terms of digital evangelism. But yeah, it needs to be a dynamic living document. It needs to be I think, I mean, worst case scenario, it needs to be updated at least annually. But I, I think there’s good reason, you know, three, four times a year, look, look that thing out. It, frankly, you need to be looking at it almost like weekly because you need to track progress against it. Evaluate how are we doing? Especially on those quantifiable goals, you gotta be measuring what, what you do. You just don’t sit down 12 months from now and say, Oh, let’s let’s measure how we’re doing on these things. So yeah, it needs to be a V a real active, active dot document that helps drive your decisions. Awesome. And it enhances your prayer life. That’s the fun thing about it now, you’re, you’re going to the Lord now with some really specific dreams. I mean, you know, you just any, and I think it enhances the prayer life of your donors and your, your prayer partners. Now they’re joining you in praying about some very specific things that you want to accomplish as an evangelist, you know, as opposed to, Oh, pray for us. We, our goal is to win the loss. Oh, okay. Could you be a little more specific? I mean, I get it, you’re an evangelist, you know, which

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:19):
We’re going to this country and we’re doing a two year program to plant 20 churches in this region and we need this amount of money to be able to get it started. Yeah. All of those things really help with the fundraising aspect.

Dave Jones (29:35):
And frankly, I mean, I don’t know if any foundation or major donor that would write a check to an evangelists or a ministry without having seen their strategic plan and they’re made it, there may be someone out there, but I mean, especially, I mean, foundations for sure. I mean, they, they want to know that there’s strategic plan in place. They’ll probably want to see your audit. They’re going to want to make sure there’s some, you know, financial controls. They’re going to know something about your board of directors, the leadership, these are good questions. They’re questions that keep us accountable, right? Yeah. Accountability is a good thing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:20):
That’s wonderful. Well, Mr. Dave, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate you. And if you want more help with developing a strategic plan, go find the global network of evangelists website, and you can get more information on how to be an effective strategic planning as an evangelist there.

Dave Jones (30:42):
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Dan, we’ve got resources on a lot of these topics, we, as a, as an Alliance of evangelist we pull our members. What do you know, where do the critical concerns you have in, in ministry? And based on the answers we get, we try to create resources to help the evangelists, especially evangelists you know, get some help in those areas. And we’ve been doing, I’ve been doing this forever, the list, the list doesn’t change very much year to year. I mean, w what are the concerns? Number one, fundraising fundraising. And we’ll a hundred years from now, there’ll be number one. And every survey we’ve ever done, number one was money fundraising. But then, you know, what’s number two, three, four, five, six, and seven. It varies year to year, but typically it’s board development, strategic planning, organizational development marketing in beginning invitations.

Dave Jones (31:45):
I mean, there’s, there’s a, there’s a, you know, I, well, number one’s fundraising items two to 10, they might change an order year to year, but they’re pretty much the same, you know, same 10 issues pretty much every year that keep evangelist awake at night. But there’s help available and for your Daniel I’m thank you for mentioning a global network of evangelists for, especially the advantages, but anyone who’s viewing the podcast has got a passion or a heart for missions and evangelism. Love to have you connect with us. Joining joined the global network of evangelists. It’s free. Joining is free. We do a lot of collaboration serving together, sharing best practices. We’re, we’re a pretty, pretty close knit relational group of men and women. We’re a family. So anyone who wants to join the family of evangelists as welcomed, I know you’ve got an ally, you’ve got a fantastic Alliance of evangelists you’re working with as well soul-winners Alliance. So I’m giving you a plug, Daniel, anyone out there who isn’t part of the soul winters Alliance they need to, they need to join your Alliance brother.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:02):
Thank you. Well, I think that there’s a variety of different, great organizations out there, and we should try to be friends with everyone and, and draw circles of inclusion and, and be with others who have a passion for leading people to Jesus.

Dave Jones (33:17):
Well said, well said, yeah, I’m, I’m, I, I can tell by the color of my hair, I’ve been around a few years and I’m excited by the amount of collaboration I’m seeing, taking place among ministries. When I, when I got in ministry 42 years ago there was tremendous respect and admiration for different ministries. I mean, I th I do think we spoke well of each other, but we kind of all did our own thing. There wasn’t. I mean, there was some collaboration, but there just, there was a lot of collaboration when I started. And so I’m, I’m just, I’m very excited in recent years to see the amazing amount of collaboration taking place among ministries. It’s, I mean, I, I wholeheartedly believe you can reach more people more effectively when we, when we work together,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:07):
That’s true together. Everyone achieves more T E a M together. Everyone achieves more so well, thank you, Mr. Dave, for being on the evangelism podcast. Yeah. Thanks brother. Hi, I’m Daniel King. Thank you so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. I love going around the world telling people about Jesus, but I can’t do it without people like you. See, every time we go to preach the gospel, we buy a plane ticket. We have to do advertising. We have to pay money to rent a sound system, and we found it takes an average of about $1 for every person we’re able to reach for Jesus. And so I’m asking people to go to my website, King ministries.com and give at least $1 a month, just $1 a month. That’s less than the cost of a cup of coffee for $1 a month. You can start a party in heaven every single month. And while you’re at it, go to Apple iTunes and leave the evangelism podcast. A positive review. Your five star review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thanks for listening. God bless you.

Evangelism Podcast Host (35:20):
If you want to know more about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

When you are starting a new ministry, one of the most important decisions you can make is “Who do you appoint to be on your board?” Today, I interview Dave Jones who has served with Luis Palau for 42 years. He is an expert in board governance and today he explains how your ministry organization can have a healthy board.

David Jones has served with the Luis Palau Association for 42 years in numerous leadership roles including the Global Network of Evangelists (GNE). David coaches GNE members in evangelism, strategic planning, organizational development, board governance, finance, media relations, and opportunities for ministry collaboration. David is a member of the Christian Leadership Alliance (CLA), Evangelical Press Association (EPA), National Religious Broadcasters (NRB), and the Society of Professional Journalists. He has served on the CLA faculty as well as the NRB’s Television Commission. David has served on the boards of over a dozen international Christian ministries and currently serves on the boards of Need Him Global and SAT 7. He frequently consults with nonprofit organizations. Since 1997 David has served as Executive Director of the Palau Foundation for World Evangelism. He and his wife Gayle are members of Village Church where David has served as an elder. David & Gayle make their home in Beaverton, Oregon. They have two daughters and four grandchildren.

Questions for David Jones: 

1. You’ve done a lot of coaching with non-profit boards especially the boards of evangelists. What has surprised you?
2. So what is the role of the board in a Christ-centered ministry?
3. What are some of the major responsibilities of the board?
4. Evangelists, pastors  and leaders listening to this podcast, what should they look for in a board member?
5. How many people should be on a board?

The people you put on your board should brings value in one of three areas:

1. Influence
2. Resources
3. Expertise

Book Mentioned:

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
When you’re starting a new ministry, one of the most important decisions you can make is who do you appoint to be on your board today? I interviewed Dave Jones who has served with Luis Palau for 42 years. He’s an expert in board governance, and today he explains how your organization can have a healthy board.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:24):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest. David Jones is with the global network of evangelists. It’s a ministry of Luis Palau and Dave Jones has actually served with the Louis Palau association for 42 years. And so what a tremendous legacy of faithfulness he has. Dave, thank you so much for joining me today.

Dave Jones (01:32):
Yeah, it’s good to be with you Daniel. So appreciate you and your ministry and the a soul winners Alliance that you lead. Love you guys. Thanks for having me. It’s an honor.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:43):
Thank you, Mr. Dave, I’ve been coaching evangelists in how to set up their ministries. A lot of of young evangelists are coming to me and say, Daniel, I really want to be in ministry. Do you think I should start a five Oh one C3 non-profit organization? And they’re just going through all the steps that are required in order to have a ministry in good standing with the government and doing things the right way. And one of the questions that frequently comes up is about who they should put on the board and how they should put their board together as they’re starting a ministry. And so you happen to be an expert in board development. And so I wanted to ask you some questions about putting together a board for a ministry.

Dave Jones (02:38):
Well, thanks, Dale. Yeah, I’ve I remember golly is probably 20 years ago. I was invited to the Billy Graham center at the Cove and they invited me to lecture on two topics building a high-performance board and strategic planning. And what me in my lecture on building a board is, and this was a room full of pastors, Christian leaders, evangelists, very sharp, very gifted people. They were writing frantically just about everything I said. And I realized I had a hit on a topic that at that time there hadn’t been a lot of teaching on now. It’s a lot different now, but I’ve also in my years of ministry have discovered regretfully. There is in our circle, there is some dysfunction on boards, both in churches and ministries and a big reason for it is the, the board has never paused and asked the question, why are we here?

Dave Jones (03:47):
What’s our role? Where are we going? And, and that really surprised me because most of the boards I have coached or worked with comprised, they’re comprised of very gifted individuals serious Christ followers business people who, who in their own business, they would, they would never hire someone without having some sort of conversation about, Hey, this is why this company exists. This is the mission of this company. This is where we’re going. This is your role. This is your responsibility. This is how you fit into the strategic direction of this company. They, they just, they wouldn’t hire someone without that conversation yet, yet, yet they would join the board of a nonprofit or a church or a Christ centered organization without their ever be in a conversation about why are we here? What, what’s our responsibility?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:42):
Yeah. I’ve seen organizations that have had very unhealthy boards sometimes, especially in charismatic circles. It seems like a lot of boards are just there for the purpose of saying yes to the founder where you only have maybe three people or five people that are very close friends of the founder and whatever the founder says, they say, yes, go for it. And, and I think the reason sometimes they do that is because they’re scared of someone taking over the board or taking the organization in a direction that, that they don’t feel that they’re supposed to go. But if you have a healthy board full of people that believe in the mission of the organization and that are qualified and can bring some influence and some resources to the board, you actually can accomplish a lot more with a board that is healthy. Then you can with a board that is just simply there to say yes to the founder.

Dave Jones (05:44):
Yeah, absolutely. You’re absolutely correct. Daniel, a healthy board that understands its role can really transform a ministry, an organization. It could take it to a, another level, conversely, a weak board or a rubber stamp board. It can be disastrous. Usually it leads to dysfunction and it, it definitely hinders growth. I, again, I don’t think boards set out with the, with the, with the goal of being disruptive. It’s just, again, it’s usually because they don’t understand, they haven’t asked the question, why are we here? What’s our role. And they don’t quite, they don’t get it, that they have a, a really important role in setting policy and strategic direction for the ministry. They have a, obviously a fiduciary, they have certain legal responsibilities, but one of their biggest responsibilities is just to provide oversight for the ministry, not to be a rubber stamp group of individuals, but to provide some serious oversight for the ministry and to make sure they’re working with the leader, the evangelist, the pastor in establishing strategic direction, where they’ve, they’ve actually set out and they’ve determined what the mission of the organization is.

Dave Jones (07:12):
And, and then they’ve, they’ve put together a strategic plan with the evangelists or the founder of the pastor to accomplish, accomplish the mission. I think one of the mistakes some boards make is they don’t understand that they have that governance oversight role. And they start meddling in my new little non-issue daily details. A friend of mine called it a boards to get down into the weeds of ministry rather than stay at that higher.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:45):
Yeah. So talk to me about the difference between governing and managing. So yeah,

Dave Jones (07:52):
Well, there’s a, there’s a big difference. I mean, governing is a higher view. It’s, you’re, you’re providing that. Like I said, that that oversight, you’re making you’re, you’re you’re setting policy you’re building some parameters and offenses to protect the the ministry. You, you recognize there’s you know, some risk assessment there’s you got to give that, that leadership, the oversight, you’re an ambassador for the ministry. You know an example I’m a practical example would be, you know, a board works with the ministry to approve a budget, but the board doesn’t manage the day-to-day details of the budget. That’s a management responsibility boards don’t get down in, you know, the GL numbers and, and asking questions. Well, why did we spend this much on printing? And the board sets the Turmans the, the budget, and then the, the leader and his team has staff, volunteers, whatever, they, they manage that budget.

Dave Jones (09:04):
Obviously the board would get monthly or quarterly financial reports because they have a fiduciary responsibility, but they, but they don’t get down into the nuts and bolts and details of daily administrating that I mean, you’ve got boards are not administrators, they’re not managers. They have that very, very important role of determining mission direction and providing oversight. So there is a huge difference. I think part of the problem in ministry is oftentimes, especially with small organizations, maybe where there’s a founder and maybe only one paid part-time person, or it might be a budget of 200,000 or less. These are very small ministries. Sometimes board members are also volunteers and that gets real messy because when did they have their board governance hat on? And when do they have their, you know, volunteer sort of non-paid staff on it’s it, it can create some confusion.

Dave Jones (10:10):
And I think that is a hurdle that smaller ministries have to jump over and have to deal with when they have board members who were also volunteers and are showing up at the office and getting into the nuts and bolts of the operation. Personally, I think if at all possible should avoid that, let a board member be a board member, let a board member provide the necessary oversight and and leadership, the embeds, and be an ambassador for the organization helped shape the the mission and direction, but not get involved in the nitty-gritty tiny little details of the day-to-day operation. That’s, that’s a management job.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:55):
Let’s talk a little bit about the responsibilities of the board. What are some of the major responsibilities that board members should, should undertake to fulfill?

Dave Jones (11:08):
Yeah, well, well, first and foremost they have a responsibility to in, in case of an evangelist to bless encourage support the evangelists they have, they have in the nonprofit world, the board has a huge responsibility to select the leader. Now, in the case of an evangelist it’s a little different than other nonprofit organizations. So first and foremost, they have a an important role in selecting, encouraging, reviewing a blessing cake, take caring for the leader in his family. And then second boards really need to make sure there’s an effective planning process in place. I mean, boards need to provide strategic direction, so they need to be involved in some sort of strategic planning where they’re helping sh determine the mission where they’re determining values. So they’ve they’ve a role to make sure there’s some sort of written plan for the organization.

Dave Jones (12:17):
Of course they have a boards have a fiduciary responsibility, they have to provide some sort of financial oversight. So they do need to stay abreast of the finances and how the ministry is doing financially, as well as help bring about those resources that are necessary to grow the organization to accomplish the plan. I always tell leaders, avoid board members that have an allergy to fundraising or funny views about money because providing financial oversight and money is a big, is a big part of running a ministry. Boards also have a responsibility to be an ambassador for the ministry. And that means they have to be keep abreast of what’s going on in the ministry. They have to be able to speak and tell them gently about the direction of the ministry. And then obviously boards participate in, you know, decision-making, there are certain decisions that do require board advice and input.

Dave Jones (13:21):
I think one of the things that boards don’t do a very good job of is self-assessment. One of the boards I serve on my, my job description is an annual self-assessment where we pull the board, we survey them board we, we, we evaluated how we’re doing as a board. We actually grade ourselves on 10 really important areas of our responsibility. So self-assessment is a real important role of a board and most boards I’m amazed how few boards do a serious self-assessment. And then of course, in a Christ centered organization, the board has to provide some, you know, some spiritual leadership and oversight. Prayer should be a big part of the board. I mean, I would hope any person serving on a board of a Christ centered organization is a prayer warrior for that board. And boards also need to maintain some standard, a standard of excellence.

Dave Jones (14:24):
I mean, excellence should be the core value of every Christ centered organization. Boards have a also responsibility to keep records, minutes of meetings or certain practical thing board that boards have to do. And then of course boards have to recruit and if, especially if the board terms, it’s their responsibility to recruit new members, we’re a good fit. And then depending on the size of the organization and whether or not they’re part of the evangelical council for financial accountability, or maybe some other group there are standards especially financial standards that a board has to make sure is met. So those are some of the practical things boards should do. And again, I’m just, I’m kind of surprised that there are boards that just never have that conversation about why are we here? And what’s our role.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:26):
So if someone is about ready to start a ministry, or they recognize that they need to find better board members for the ministry that they currently have, what should people look for in a board member?

Dave Jones (15:43):
Yeah, that’s a very good question. I mean, another thing that has surprised me in my many years of ministry is that boards, some boards are not more intentional about who they bring on the board, especially smaller ministries. I think sometimes they’re, they’re more keen on just meat assuring themselves that they’ve met sort of the IRS or some legal requirement. You know, you have to have in a nonprofit, the nonprofit world, you have to have at least three board members. And I think sometimes the founder or the evangelists, the, the missionary ministry leader, they kind of find three friends and say, Hey, will you be, be on my board? And then they sell them a false bill of goods that we only were. We don’t meet that often. It doesn’t take any of your time and there’s nothing for you to do, but I just need that.

Dave Jones (16:37):
I just need to find three people to be on my board. Well, that’s a, that’s a recipe for disaster. That’s, that’s a pretty impotent board. They’re not going to help you grow your organization. So, so yeah, there’s several things I would look for in a board. Especially if it’s a Christ centered organization and evangelists, there are some scriptural qualifications, obviously in the new Testament, there are some qualifications and I think those need to be abided by they’re there in the new Testament for good reason. I, I also like to look for people that just really love the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul and strength, another biblical principle godly people like that. Obviously you’re going to want to look for people that agree with your mission, where you’re going. They agree with your values that, that are love with what you do.

Dave Jones (17:34):
I mean, those are the kind of people you want on your board. People who have proven to you that, wow, this person really loves what we do. I, I look for people of faith, big faith. I, people that, I mean, when you’re an evangelist or any meetings, ministry leader, it’s, it’s, it’s a, you’re a faith based ministry. So you want people with, I would say with faith I would look for prayer warriors, people who passionate about prayer people who have a positive world view you, you want, you definitely want positive people. Not that there’s enough negativity around the, for people who, you know, are encourages, who are positive, who, who believe passionately in you. And one of the things I look for which oftentimes gets overlooked, I I’m a huge believer in chemistry and fit. I mean sometimes boards and leaders, they, they look for a candidate who makes, if he has deep pockets or has a reputation for being successful, but they’ve never asked is, is this person a really a good fit for our organization and for the, the other board members?

Dave Jones (18:57):
It can be really disruptive to a high profile warming board when you bring in a board member where the chemistry and the fit is, is horrific. I remember serving on a board quite a number of years ago, and I was accepted. I was a young man at the time, and I was excited to go on this board because when I looked at the resumes of the other ones, people on the board, I thought, wow, this is an all-star board. I could learn a lot by just sitting at the feet of these these gentlemen while the chemistry and fit was terrible. I was really surprised. There was a lot of egos and deliberations at times were ugly. And I mean, I did not flying service on that board to be the enjoyable experience. I thought that it was going to be, so, yeah, fit is really important.

Dave Jones (19:47):
Look for people, I have a wide network of contacts. You want results oriented people. I, and this is hard to do, but you can, with some interviews and questions you need, you need the board members who can differentiate between issues. And non-issues, I I’ve, I’ve coached some boards and I’ve quickly figured out that the, the particular board, it has a tendency to get down what I call the weeds of ministry. And they start to break things that really are not should abort. I shouldn’t discuss it’s a lot of times it’s staff work or just what I would call it’s a non-issue why are we having an argument or debate over this? It’s just not enough important issue. You want a team players, certainly you want people that don’t have a conflict of interest. You want people with you know, you want on the board, a variety of different experiences boards have responsibility confidentiality as well.

Dave Jones (20:49):
You want people to understand the importance of confidentiality. And then a big one. I mentioned this a little earlier. You, you definitely want board members that don’t have what I call an allergy to fundraising. I don’t, I don’t think a lot of board members realize, Hey, one of the most important roles they have is to make sure the ministry has the financial resources. It needs to accomplish the mission. And you can’t be a, you can’t be an effective ambassador for a ministry that you, you personally don’t support. So I mean, I think every board member should be a donor to the, to the organization on whose board they serve. And, and you want to try to figure out, make sure the person doesn’t have odd notions about money just is really peculiar, really strange views of money. Cause they can be disruptive in a board meeting as well.

Dave Jones (21:47):
And finally, this is one, I don’t think I’ve, I don’t think I’ve seen this up here. I do a lot of reading. I’d go to webinars. One that I feel is really important, but I don’t. I think I’m one of the few peoples ever brought this up. I think it’s important that a board candidate that the person’s spouse is just as equally excited about them serving on the board as they are. I think a disgruntled spouse or a spouse is not real, too excited about their husband or wife joining a board that can be disruptive. It can be, you know, if Thursday night when the individual’s heading off to the board meeting, if the spouse is saying, where are you going? Why are you going there? Why, why are you on this board? You’re gone. You’re away too much. Why you didn’t talk to me about, yeah, I think it’s important.

Dave Jones (22:38):
He can have some buy-in and some enthusiasm from your spouse before you accept an invitation to serve on a board. So, so those, those are the, some of the things I would look for. One that I’m really big on though, is the chemistry and fit. I think that’s so important if you’ve ever for, for your audience and for the leaders, missionaries evangelists, watching this blog. If, if they’ve ever served on a board where the chemistry and fit was bad, they, that I know for a fact, they couldn’t wait for their turn to be upset. They weren’t at all interested in a second term.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:18):
Yeah. Recently someone was asking me who they should put on their board. And I told him that there’s three characteristics that you should look for. Someone should either have influence and help to widen the influence of the organization, or someone should bring resources to the board. So maybe a businessman or, or someone who can bring a significant amount of resources and has friends with resources or someone could bring expertise the board. So having expertise in a particular area. So like on my board, I have people who have influence. So there are pastors that help introduce me to, to other pastors and, and put their, their spiritual endorsement on our ministry. I also have had businessmen on my board who, who helped to support the ministry. And then in the area of expertise right now, we’ve got a a wonderful board member. Who’s a CPA who helps to answer all my, my questions about money and, and in handling money properly. And so if you can find people with influence resources and expertise and, and everything else that you said, I say a Hardy, amen. They need to believe in the mission of the organization. And they need to really love the, the other people on the board and, and come with a Christ-like attitude to have service. So once you have a good board put together, what are, what are some of the questions that the board should be asking to help the organization?

Dave Jones (24:45):
Well, yeah, that’s, that’s good. They definitely I mean the, the whole area of strategy and direction you know, where we’re going as a, as an organization that that’s, that’s I mean, that’s just, that’s, that’s huge and boards, you know, basically I excellent board man a good board member, someone who brings a value to the organization. And part of that, that value is looking at like, what are the, I mean, what are the trends that are impacting this ministry and as a board, how, how are we going to address, address these? Are we missing some policies? I mean, boards are policy setting groups board should ask the, the, the leader, Hey, what are the opportunities out there? I I’m big on SWOT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. I mean, board should, from time to time do a SWAT analysis, especially asking the question, what, what are the opportunities out there?

Dave Jones (25:52):
And, and how are we going to seize them? Another important question is is in the area of risk assessment. I mean, you would think this isn’t a problem, but there, there are ministries out there that have been defrauded and it’s because they just didn’t have good controls in place. So a board has a responsibility in that area as well. One of the questions boards, I think they don’t like to ask cause involves fundraising, but the boards really need to be engaged in, in development and fundraising and, and ask the question, Hey, how, how are we as a board helping to raise and bring about the financial resources that this ministry needs to accomplish its its plans, and to move and move forward. Another, another important question is the board, once the mission is determined from time to time needs to make sure the organization is mission focused.

Dave Jones (27:01):
There’s a great book on the market right now called mission drift. And there are, there are churches and ministries are Christ centered organizations that are wrestling with mission drift. And usually it’s it’s because they’ve, they’ve compromised their mission sometimes for the sake of getting a certain grant from someplace, or they’ve allowed some donor to have undue influence on the direction. And so that they fall into the trap of mission drift just to, so they can secure a, a grant. Instead of just saying to the individual, you know what you’re asking us to do just doesn’t fit the mission. It’s not what we’re about. We’d love to have you as a prayer partner supporter, but if your gift has those kinds of strings attached to it, we just respectfully decline the gift. That’s hard to do. It’s hard to do, but boards have a responsibility to protect the integrity and the mission of the organization.

Dave Jones (28:06):
You know, again, this whole self evaluation ward should ask, Hey, is service on this board satisfying? Is it rewarding? If not, why? Boards, yeah, the boards, there are a lot of questions, but I think the a big question is for the board to ask is how do we define success? And what are our how do we measure what we’re doing to ensure that goals are being met and where we’re being successful? So, yeah, I think measures of achievement or something boards should ask, but again, you don’t want the board to get down in the nuts and bolts and day-to-day details and the grind of, of, of ministry that staff work that’s worked for the volunteers and the staff. That’s not board work.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:05):
Do you have any thoughts on how many people should be on a board relative to the size of the organization?

Dave Jones (29:12):
Yeah, I mean, yeah. Boards can be too big. I, typical guys say a board’s too big when healthy deliberation is almost impossible because there’s just too many people boards can be too small when you you just don’t have enough people to fill committees or get the board and work done. So but I think usually boards are too small when they just, the board work just can’t get accomplished. You don’t have, I mean, on boards, there should be some sort of development fundraising committee. There should be some sort of audit and finance committee there. I mean, there’s certain committees a board should have. So as a subdivide, the work of a board and a board is too small, if you just don’t have enough people to staff those committees. So I don’t think there’s, well, I, I do think a board can be too big.

Dave Jones (30:10):
I, I know of a, an organization who at one time had like a hundred board members. Well, that’s crazy. I mean, they just, they were, I think they just wanted all these people’s names or something. Obviously those people were not engaged or highly involved. And that’s, I mean, that could, that could be a real governance issue. I think in the, in the case of this organization, they put together some sort of executive committee, which they were the real board. I wouldn’t even consider the other people board members because they, they were doing board work, but yeah, boards, while legally you got to have at least three somewhere between three and a hundred, you got to keep it. I wouldn’t go as high as I would say between three and maybe 20 or 15, depending on the size of your organization.

Dave Jones (31:05):
But, and that’s a good question. I mean, yeah, boards can be too small and they can be too big. I interesting story. Daniel, I remember years ago, I was a guys a lot quite a while ago, but I was in a workshop a leadership workshop and the presenter asked the question of the audience and the audiences. These are leaders. I mean, these were serious Christian leaders. The question was, would you have a board if it wasn’t required by law? How many of you would not have a board if it wasn’t required by law? And I was shocked Daniel, most of the hands, just, I mean, I couldn’t believe that most of the people in the room raised their hand and said they would not have a board. Well, that, I mean, I clearly says to me that it wasn’t a hyper there, the board of these individuals wasn’t, wasn’t a high-performing board.

Dave Jones (32:06):
It they didn’t understand the role that the board was probably dysfunctional and creating problems for the leader. Here’s another interesting story. This was, I don’t know, four or five years ago, the president of a seminary, a large seminary in the United States. He wanted to meet with me. I couldn’t figure out why, what a seminary president. I want to meet with me. I was, but I thought, okay, fine. I’ll meet with you. Well, and he we met and I said, I’m glad to meet you, but why, why did you want to meet me? He said, this is the word he used Daniel. He said are within our denomination. And he used the word epidemic. We have an epidemic problem. I thought, wow, you know what, w what do I know about seminaries and epidemic problems and denomination, but he said, we have an epidemic problem.

Dave Jones (33:06):
And here’s the problem you described. You said too many of our pastors are quitting. The ministry are leaving the ministry after only three or four years in ministry. And the reason is dysfunctional boards boards that are just giving them fits to the point. They don’t want to be in ministry anymore. And that saddened me because one, I don’t think men and women join a board with the idea they’re going to give the pastor the advantages or leader fits, or they’re going to my goal. I’m joining this board so I can make this guy’s life. So terribly. He wants to quit ministry. I think it’s, again, it’s just because they don’t understand their role and responsibilities because they’d never had a conversation for, I was, I was doing board training. Oh, probably two years ago for a church. And afterwards, one of the board members, an elder came up to me. He said, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I had no idea why I was on this board and what I was responsible for. Absolutely no idea. Well, that’s, that’s a real weakness. I think in our circles in that there’s no orientation for board members. I mean, no one should join a board with, without some sort of orientation where they’re told, Hey, this is the mission of this organization. This is where we’re going, and this is how you’re going to help us get there.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:35):
Well, thank you so much for helping boards to be healthy boards. Mr. David Jones is with a global network of evangelists, and you can reach out to them for more information on how to have an effective board. Mr. Dave, thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Dave Jones (34:56):
Daniel is a blessing. I love you, brother. Love what you do. Love your soul winners Alliance. Keep up the good work. Persist my friend.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:04):
Thank you, God bless you. Hi, I’m Daniel King. Thank you so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. I love going around the world telling people about Jesus, but I can’t do it without people like you. See, every time we go to preach the gospel, we buy a plane ticket. We have to do advertising. We have to pay money to rent a sound system. And we found that takes an average of about $1 for every person we’re able to reach for Jesus. And so I’m asking people to go to my website, King ministries.com and give at least $1 a month, just $1 a month. That’s less than the cost of a cup of coffee for $1 a month. You can start a party in heaven every single month. And while you’re at it, go to Apple iTunes and leave the evangelism podcast. A positive review. Your five-star review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thanks for listening. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (36:08):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Is Mass Evangelism Effective? Recently I finished earning my Doctorate of Ministry Degree at Oral Roberts University and the focus of my research was mass evangelism. I looked at historical, theological, and academic research into mass evangelism and my research project involved collecting information about an evangelism crusade that we did in Caicó, Brazil. So what did the research show about the effectiveness of doing mass evangelism?

Purchase Daniel King’s Doctoral Research on Mass Evangelism:

The Story is in the Numbers

I recently finished my Doctorate of Ministry degree at Oral Roberts University. I used this Brazil crusade as my research project and I did a survey of a random cross section of people at the crusade. The project was designed to give a snapshot picture of an evangelistic crusade. The goal was to discover who came to the crusade, why they came, and what impact the crusade had on the city.

Here are some of the stats from the crusade. Caicó, Brazil has a population of 66,246 people. The nine evangelical churches in the city have 1,357 believers which equals about 2% of the population.

How Many People Were Saved? 82.6% of the crowd repeated the prayer of salvation with me. 641 people filled out decision cards. This represents a 43% increase in the number of Christians in the city.

Did Miracles Really Occur? 48.7% of the crowd reported that they arrived with pain in their bodies. 78.5% of those who came with pain in their bodies felt better after the healing prayer. Of the 182 people on Saturday night who answered “yes” to the question of whether they arrived with pain in the their bodies and said that they felt better, 176 (96.7%) “strongly agreed” or “agreed” that they had received a miracle.

Was the Crusade Worthwhile? 100% of the pastors agreed that the crusade was worth the time, money, and preparation.

How Many People Did We Impact? Our team ministered to a total of about 7,792 people at the crusade. Our three-day soul winning conference was used to train local believers in how to pray for the sick, cast out demons, and lead people to Jesus. By the third night of the soul winning conference, 485 believers were in attendance. The church where the meeting was held was completely full and we filled the street in front of the church with chairs for the overflow crowd. 792 young people attended the youth concert. 504 children were in attendance at the children’s festival.

Who Came to the Crusade? 39% of the crowd was male and 61% was female. The average age was 38.

How Did People Hear About the Crusade? Of the people who responded to my survey, 163 heard about the meeting from a friend. 79 were invited by a family member. 123 saw a poster. 132 received a flyer. 84 saw an advertisement on Facebook. 41 learned about the meeting on Instagram. 63 responded to a message on WhatsApp. 127 heard about the meeting on the radio. 39.74% of those personally invited to the crusade came which shows how important it is to have local church involvement in the crusade.

Why did People Come to the Crusade? 460 people responded to the question “Why did you come to this meeting?” 107 said, “My friend invited me.” 77 said they were curious about what was happening. 44 wanted to hear the music. 116 said they needed a miracle. 106 said they wanted to see miracles. 61 came because their pastor told them they should come. 112 came because they are curious about God. 6 did not know why they came and the rest gave some other reason why they came. These “other” answers include: Jesus called me, to seek the presence of God, because I am an evangelical, because I wanted to, because my wife invited me, I came to seek God, because I had a need, and because someone asked me.

How did people come to the crusade? 182 respondents came by car (38.6%). 42 came by public transportation (8.9%). 52 came by church bus (11%). 129 came by motorcycle (27.4%). 4 came by bicycle (0.8%). 59 walked (12.5%). 3 came by other means of transportation (0.6%).

Were the crusade attendees people who regularly go to church? 457 people responded to the question, “How often do you attend your church?” 23 said they never attend (5%). 57 said they attend 1-2 times per year (12.5%). 18 said they attend 6-12 times per year (3.9%). 44 said they attend 1-2 times each month (9.6%). 78 said they attend every Sunday (17.1%). 237 said they attend 2 or more times each week (51.9%).

Are those who got saved willing to go to a church for follow up? 80 people “strongly agreed” they would be willing to visit a church (37.2%). 111 “agreed” they would visit a church (51.6%). 14 were not sure if they would visit (6.5%). 9 “disagreed” that they would visit a church (4.2%). 1 “strongly disagreed” that he would be willing to visit a church (0.5%).

I’m sorry if I overwhelmed you with numbers in this episode but the truth is that numbers are important. God even named a whole book in the Bible, “Numbers.” The reality is that every number represents a story. Every statistic stands for a person. At the crusade in Caicó, Brazil many people were touched by God, saved, and healed. You played an important part in making that happen! Thank you for your prayers and your giving.

For Help in Evangelism, please Call the Evangelism Coach Daniel King or listen to The Evangelism Podcast.

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Is mass evangelism effective. Recently I finished earning my doctorate of ministry degree at oral Roberts university. In the focus of my research was mass evangelism. I looked at historical theological and academic research into massive evangelism. And my research project involves collecting information about an evangelistic crusade that we did in Keiko Brazil. So what did the research show about the effectiveness of doing mass evangelism?

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:31):
Well, Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:07):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast on Daniel King. And I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And today I have a special guest Rubens Cunha who has been a very close friend for many years. He’s from the nation of Brazil. Rubins thank you for joining me today. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here. So a few years ago, I decided to get my doctorate of ministry at or Roberts university. And the program is two years of classes. And then one year of doing an applied research project. And since I’m called to be an evangelist, I decided to do my research project on mass evangelism, especially dealing with the question is mass evangelism effective. And so for a year, and even more than a year, I went through the history of mass evangelism, looking at how God has used mass evangelism throughout church history, looking at the theology of mass evangelism, looking at the scholarship involved in mass evangelism with both the critics and the people who are in favor of mass evangelism. And then I had to do a research project concerning mass evangelism, and I was looking all over the world for the right place to go the right city to go do my research. And you invited me to come to Brazil. And I did my research project at one of your crusades. We, we work together at that crusade in Kayako, Brazil, and we had a tremendous time of ministry there. Yes, it was wonderful. I am very glad you decided to come to Brazil.

Rubens Cunha (03:00):
We were able to impact a city for eternity. And now we have this amazing doctoral work that you wrote just showing we scientific evidence, the effectiveness of mass evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:18):
So the purpose of this project was to survey a random cross section of people at the crusade and ask them questions about why they came to the crusade, how involved they were in the church before they came, what response they had to, the message, whether any of the people received a miracle. And kind of the idea was to give a snapshot picture of an evangelist at crusade. And the goal was to discover who came to the crusade, why they came and what impact the crusade had on the city. And so I came back with surveys, filled out. We had boxes full of surveys, just all the people that we interviewed. And I want to go through some of these numbers and feel free to jump in if you have any insight on any of these numbers. So we went to the city of Keiko Brazil. Could you tell people where is Keiko? Brazil

Rubens Cunha (04:19):
[Inaudible] is in the Brazilian state of [inaudible] a city debt faced tremendous social and spiritual challenges with a high rate of suicide at the time, in terms of percentage of population, it was one of the highest in the countries, a place where churches faced tremendous challenge to grow because of, of persecution and opposition that takes place in that CDN. I need you to say something here as well. Our audience, I believe they need to understand that this campaign faced tremendous challenges, unusual challenges. The first of them being a trucker’s strike, we had in Brazil at the time.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:07):
So all the truckers in the whole country went on strike and our sound system, our sound stage was coming from another state and it got stopped on the road. It wasn’t able to make it for the first night of the crusade, which was a big

Rubens Cunha (05:22):
Problem. Yes, we had to improvise and find local stage and local sound equipment to, to continue the campaign. And because of that, trucker’s strike, the city was running out of fuel. The supermarket shelves were becoming empty. You can imagine if all the transportation system in the nation stops, it it’s chaotic and that’s, that’s what the city was facing. So we had tremendous challenges in that area because of this truckers strike preventing even food to reach the city, but that resulted in something else. That also became a challenge for us because of the truckers strike. A lot of people were out of work. They didn’t have a lot to do. And there was a religious holiday in the city. And in that holiday, the Catholic Bishop gathered a large crowd. People were seating their homes. They didn’t have a lot to do before our campaign.

Rubens Cunha (06:25):
And in that event that the Catholic church organized the Bishop specifically told the people not to go to the crusade and he incited the people to oppose and persecute us. And I’m telling you, I’ve been to many Muslim nations, I’ve received death threats. I received all kinds of threats. I have never received as many threats in my life. As in that Kayako campaign, I never received as much hate mail in my life as in that campaign. But despite those challenges we have here, avid dance that the gospel works and evangelists campaigns work to bring growth to the church, to bring salvation to the loss, to build up the body of Christ and to transform entire CDs with the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:20):
Amen. Well, I’m so grateful for all the work that you and your team put into making this crusade happen. I remember you told me Daniel, I hope that we have a very big crusade, so you can have, you know, lots of big numbers for your research. And you’ve done many crusades in Brazil. Many of them have been far more successful numerically than this one particular crusade where I did my research. But I think that even though there was opposition, and even though we did not have the total results that sometimes we wish for that still this research is extremely valuable and in some ways is even more valuable because it was collected at a crusade where there were so many issues. All right. So let’s go through some of the statistics. First of all, let me paint a picture of the city of Keiko. According to their website, they have a population of 66,246 people.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:25):
So it’s not a huge city. There there’s much bigger cities in Brazil, but it’s not a small village either. You’ve got 66,000 people and we surveyed the nine evangelical churches in the city. And we found out that if you added up the total membership of the nine churches, there’s only nine evangelical churches. At that time, they had 1,357 believers in total. So the evangelical believers were only about 2% of the population of the city. So one of the first questions that really concerned me in my research was how many people were saved. So when I give an altar call, I try not to exclude everyone. I try to include everyone in praying the prayer of salvation, because even if someone has, at some point as a child, they said a prayer, or maybe they were baptized. They may not be serving the Lord. And so I try to go for a hundred percent participation in the salvation prayer.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:33):
And in our survey, we found that 82.6% of the crowd repeated the prayer of salvation with me. And they said, yes, I want my sins to be forgiven. And then we sent out ushers into the crowd to talk to the people who gave their lives to Jesus. And over the course of the three day event, 641 people filled out decision cards. So 641, a that’s just a drop in the bucket compared to the millions that we’ve seen between your ministry and my ministry we’ve seen come to Jesus. But for that city 641 represents a 43% increase in the number of Christians in the city, in a three-day period. Isn’t it.

Rubens Cunha (10:25):
That’s amazing. That’s amazing. And I completely agree with your earlier statement that yes, we have had other crusades that have bigger numbers, but I believe God allowed this research to take place in this CD to show everyone without a shadow of a doubt that evangelistic crusades work and have a great impact. If even despite, even in the midst of all the turmoil we had, we still had success. Imagine what happens if everything was ruining Smith.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
Another question that I asked was, did miracles really occur? Now, this is a very difficult question to deal with scientifically. But you can get a sense of what happened by serving the people. And so 48.7% of the crowd reported that they arrived with pain in their bodies. So 48.7% came and said they had pain somewhere in their body when they, they, and they came looking for a miracle. And now here is the amazing statistic of those 48.7% that came with pain in their body. 78.5% of them said that they felt better after the healing prayer.

Rubens Cunha (11:50):
This is amazing. And it shows us how we, despite the Medico advances of our generation, there are still many people out there in need of miracle healing. And when we promote a mass crusade in which there is prayer for miracles, people will come in search of healing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:10):
And so of the hundred and 82 people on the Saturday night who answered yes to the question of whether they arrived with pain in their body and said that they felt better. So this is the people who said they had pain. And then they said that they felt better. 176 of them, or 96.7% strongly agreed or agreed that they had received a miracle. And so of the people that this, this is actually an amazing statistic. You have close to 50% of the crowd that comes with pain of those 50%, 78.5% of them said that they felt better. And of those 90, almost 97% of them said that, yes, I received a miracle from Jesus. Wow. And this is amazing. I mean, in a, in a crusade, sometimes people say, you know why aren’t all healed and I’ve never seen everyone get healed. I’m still praying for that crusade to happen. Where every single sick person who comes gets healed, but by any measure to have almost 80% of the people say that they feel better after the healing, prayer is a phenomenal success in the arena of healing.

Rubens Cunha (13:25):
Absolutely. And let us not forget that behind those numbers are real people. People who are hurting people who are suffering people in pain, and they had the experience with the power of God that will shape their lives. And, Oh, a T.L. Osborn used to say that a miracle we will preach in generations. And those people who received a miracle in that campaign, they will be telling their neighbors, they’ll be telling their family members, their coworkers, their colleagues at school, they’ll be telling their children and grandchildren that one day, somebody prayed for them in the name of Jesus. And they received a miracle from God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:05):
Another question was how many total people did we impact? So our team ministered to a total of 7,792 people at the crusade over the three day, we also did a soul winning conference that was used to train local believers in how to pray for the sick cast out demons and how to lead people to Jesus. And so a total of 485 believers came to the training conference to be trained. The, I remember the church that we were at was completely packed out. There was a balcony. The balcony was completely full and those sessions were so powerful. And then 792 young people attended the youth conference and 504 children came to the festival. And so we had a strategy for reaching every single level of society from the young people, to the children, to the adults, and then training the believers. What are some of the things that you share with the believers in those training sessions?

Rubens Cunha (15:07):
One of them is about Soul Winning. We encourage them to go out and reach people beyond the four walls of their church. We challenged them to get out there in their workplace, in their place where, where people are in their homes, in the Plaza, in the offices and share the gospel with them. We equip them to do that. We also teach them how to pray for healing. We strongly believe that the ministry of healing is not just for some specially anointed people, but for the entire body of Christ. So one of the sessions is teaching on how to pray for healing. And at the end of it, we have the believers praying for one another and miracles happen. And a lot of people get excited. So you have usually people weeping because they received a miracle from God and people weeping because they prayed for somebody and they experienced a miracle through their lives.

Rubens Cunha (16:04):
We also teach about the ministry of deliverance. A lot of people are still under oppression of the devil. We see that a lot in, in nations where people are still involved with witchcraft religions, which is very common in Brazil. So this is a major part of the ministry work we do. And hundreds every night are set free from demonic oppression in those campaigns. But we also teach about the power of the Holy spirit, equipping the believer to preach the gospel, to win souls. And after death, we pray for people. We pray for the baptism and the Holy spirit. We pray that God will give people spiritual gifts. And that’s usually an evening of great revival.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:51):
So who came to the crusade? 39% of the crowd was male. 61% was female. The average age was 38. Actually that’s a little bit skewed because I wasn’t allowed to survey the people under 18. So for people 18 above the average age was 38. I think if you included the young people, the average age would have gone down quite a bit because there’s always lots of young people. How did people hear about the crusade of the people who responded to my survey? 163 heard about the meeting from a friend 79 were invited by a family member 123 of them saw a poster and came because of a poster on the wall or on a light post 132 came because they received a flyer 84 saw an advertisement on Facebook. 41 heard about the meeting on Instagram 63 responded to a message on what’s app 127 of them heard about the meeting on the radio.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:57):
And then 39.7, 4% of those personally invited to the crusade came, which shows how important it is to have local church involvement in the crusade. So you’ve got a variety of different advertising avenues. Here. You have invitations from friends, you’ve got posters, flyers, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, you’ve got the radio advertisements and all of them proved to be somewhat effective. You can’t point to any one that was most effective, except for someone receiving a personal invitation. And so sometimes people ask like, why do, why do crusades cost so much money? Well, the reason is because in order to get people to come, you have to do a variety of, of advertising methods. And the goal is to saturate the entire community so that with the advertising so that people will know about it and come to the crusade.

Rubens Cunha (19:02):
Absolutely. The goal of advertising is that every single person in town, we have an opportunity to come and hear the gospel at the crusade. And it’s amazing to me how your research provided evidence that local church involvement is very important. It’s essential for the success of the campaign. As your research indicated, when believers is step out of their comfort zone, when believers step out of their, just routine of going to church on Sunday to actually go out and invite the lost to an evangelistic event, we have a tremendous harvest of souls. So that’s it’s very important for our evangelist friends out there listening to this podcast, make sure my friend, when you were doing a campaign, make sure you equip the local church to go out and work with you to reach souls. Why

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:03):
People come to the crusades? So 107 people said, my friend invited me 77, said that they were just curious about what was happening. 44 wanted to hear the music 116 people said they came because they needed a miracle, which is very interesting because there there’s several different paradigms of doing mass evangelism, which I studied in my, my research for my doctoral project. So you have the Billy Graham method, which Billy Graham used very effectively here in the United States and other countries for many years, where he gets lots of church involvement. He does a big choir made up of believers from the local churches and all the churches invite people to come and here the, the evangelist and, and so that was Billy Graham’s method. He had great organization and he really adapted that from Billy Sunday, who was in the early 19 hundreds and DL moody, who was in the late 18 hundreds, both very strong at organizing the churches and organizing the crews, the crusade meetings that they had.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:19):
Then you have another paradigm, which is the, the Luis Palau paradigm. He was trained up under Billy Graham’s ministry, but then he had an insight about changing it from a crusade into a festival. And so he started using popular music artists to attract people. He used bikes, doing tricks and face painting bouncy houses to attract the kids and really turns his evangelistic events into festivals that the whole family can come to and attract people with entertainment, which that has worked very well here in the United States, but often in Africa and also in Latin America. One thing that really attracts people to come to crusades is miracles. And people in Africa will walk miles

Rubens Cunha (22:23):
And miles, sometimes days

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:25):
To come and receive a miracle. And so I would call that the T.L. Osborn method of mass evangelism, because T.L. Osborn great evangelists from here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, he pioneered using mass healing prayer in order to attract people to the crusade and relying upon God’s power to heal the sick. And we proved in this crusade, that miracles was one of the big reasons that people came. So 44 people came because they wanted to hear the music, but 116 came because they said that they needed a miracle, another hundred and six said that they came not because they needed a miracle, but because they wanted to see a miracle. Wow. And so miracles was the most popular reason why people came. And so we have that documented proof that miracles draw people to come hear about Jesus.

Rubens Cunha (23:25):
That’s, that’s truly impressive. Then you, I believe that there could be many different methods of evangelism and they may be effective in different ways. You know, as long as the message remains, the same methods may change in average generation for different groups in different society. The method that works best in the United States might be different. As you said, of the maths methods we use in developing countries. However, I favor miracle because that’s the method of Jesus. And the early church used when we read the gospels, when we read the book of acts Jesus and the disciples, they preach to the masses and they ministered healing and deliverance to the crowds. And this method is still valid today. And whenever and wherever in the world, we proclaim the name of Jesus with signs and wonders. The crowds will come and the masses will come to Christ.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:27):
Amen. Well, another 61 people came because their pastor told them they should come. And then 112 people came because they were curious about God. So just being curious about God, I think that’s another real reason why people would come to a crusade and then six people. So they didn’t know why they came. They just showed up. And then what’s interesting. We also asked how did people come to the crusade? So 38% came by car 8% came by public transportation. 11% came by church bus. 27% came by motorcycle. Four people came by bicycle and 12 and a half percent walked to get there. So you have all these different ways that people have of, of getting to the crusade. And we also asked how far they came from, you know and we found that at least in this town people came from fairly close, within five kilometers. Most of the people came. I think if we did the survey at a crusade in Africa, we might get a 50 kilometer radius of people that would come.

Rubens Cunha (25:43):
I think you’ve made a great point there that regarding transportation, it varies with where the crusade is taking place. Some, some areas are more urban, other cities. If they have more of a rural surrounding, then we gonna have different ways. People who get you, they campaign. One thing that is, I believe important, you emphasized always that part of our strategy, we try to help the churches, to bus people from remote areas, especially villages that have very little gospel witness, or that don’t have a church yet. And we use that as a strategy to plant churches as well. Typically we sponsor a bus to bring people from a village that doesn’t have a church. So the people in that bus, they hear the gospel, they see the miracles and as the bus takes them back to their villages somebody from a local church who being site, the buzz is starting to follow-up and inviting to a service usually the next day. And that’s how we had over 400 church birthed out of campaigns in the last 10 years.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:54):
Yeah. So in this crusade, I remember you sent me about four pictures of churches that were actually planted because of this crusade. So there were only nine evangelical churches in the city and out of the crusade were birth for brand new churches. So I mean, what a tremendous testimony.

Rubens Cunha (27:15):
Yeah, absolutely. And some of those were planted in villages that did not have a church before ever. So that’s truly pioneering work being done as well through crusade evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:29):
Another thing we wanted to find out was whether we were preaching to the choir or whether we were preaching to people that were sinners, who genuinely needed Jesus. And so that’s a little bit difficult to pin down with a question, but we decided one way to look at it was how often people attended church. Because if the choir they’re probably in church all the time, but people who are lost, they probably don’t attend church very often. And so 5% of the crowd so that they never attend church, that they never go to church at all 12 and a half percent of the crowd so that they only attend church one to two times a year. So that’s probably someone who’s going on Christmas Eve or on Easter. They, they might consider themselves Christian, but they’re definitely not living a Christian life because they’re, they’re never going to church very often.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:30):
3.9% said that they attend six to 12 times per year. So that might be once a month, 9.6% said that they attended one to two times each month. So that’s getting into someone who’s, who’s more devout. 17% said that they tend to church every Sunday. And then we did have a significant number of Christians that were there. So 51%, almost 52% said that they attend church more than two times per week. And that’s actually good because you want the local churches to be involved in the event. So you want them to come. But I think a really good ratio would be one Christian for every non-Christian or if every Christian could invite two or three of their friends, you could have a ratio of one Christian for every three non-believers what, what do you think would be a good ratio?

Rubens Cunha (29:27):
I agree with you that the more unreached people, the more unsaved we can have in a campaign the best. And again, let us remember. We faced unusual challenges in this city and this, this proportions may vary from campaign to campaign. But I think there is a very interesting point that we must realize here the fact that people that usually would not go to a church, they go to a crusade, people that usually would not be comfortable participating in a regular service for whatever reason they are. Okay. Going to an outdoor event where the gospel is being preached, where prayers offered, where there’s good music, and that’s the people we want to reach. That’s the people, Jesus died for them. God loves them. And because they, they typically wouldn’t attend a regular service. We are able to preach the gospel to them at the crusade. Then

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:26):
We asked the people who filled out decision cards, whether they would be willing to attend a church to, for follow up information. So we’re, we were talking about how do we follow up on these new believers? In what we’ve found is that 37% strongly agreed that they would be willing to go to church to find out more about Jesus. Another 50% agreed that they would visit a church and another 6%, they weren’t sure if they would visit. And then nine people said that they probably wouldn’t visit a church. They disagree. And then one person he strongly disagrees says he definitely would not be willing to go to a charity, even though he had just gotten saved, but almost 80% who filled out decision cards at the crusade said that they were willing to go to a church the next day in order to learn more about Jesus awesome news

Rubens Cunha (31:29):
Some, and don’t forget we have people there 80% of them made a decision that they would go to a church, but most likely all of them will be visited by believers in the days following the campaign, because as they made the decision for Christ, their names are given to the local churches that had teams trained to follow up with them. So I pray that even that, that one person that said would not go to church has changed his mind. So we’ve talked about

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:02):
A lot of different numbers in this episode of the evangelism podcast, but the truth is that numbers are important. God even wrote a whole book of the Bible in named it numbers. And the reality is that every number represents a story. Every statistic stands for a person at this crusade in Keiko, Brazil. Many people were touched by God. They were saved. They were healed by God and the churches saw growth after the crusade. And so overall, this crusade was a tremendous success. And so after looking at the question are mass crusades effective is mass evangelism effective? I would say based on this snapshot picture of this crusade and based on my historical research and theological research and looking academically at the question, I would say the answer is yes, mass evangelism is effective, is not the only way that people can come to Jesus, but it is an effective way to mobilize the church to be focused on evangelism.

Rubens Cunha (33:21):
Amen. What, what pressures information you were able to gather and with scientific evidence and research? Yes. I fully agree with your statement that those are numbers. They are important for us. They helped us to redirect and refine our strategies. If you’re listening to us and you’re an evangelist, I hope you listen to this podcast again, because it has so many, a wonderful, precious piece of information that can help you fine tune your ministry. And I am excited, Daniel, as you say that behind those numbers, we have people, people we are going to meet in heaven. People that made a decision for Christ in the, in, because you decided to go to [inaudible] and do your research and a crusade there.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:11):
Amen. If you’re interested in helping to support mass evangelism, I encourage you go to my website, King ministries.com. You can give a donation there and brother Rubens, what is your website? If someone wants to give a donation to your ministry in Brazil,

Rubens Cunha (34:28):
Thank you. Www.Gga.Global. Now I know I’m being interviewed here, but I have to ask you a question, go for it. If someone is listening to us and they want to get a hold of this wonderful research, how can they do that?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:45):
I took my entire doctoral project and I published it on Amazon. You can find a link to it on my website, King ministries.com. You can look at all the research, all of the historical, all of the theological and the academic research behind this conclusion is mass evangelism effective. And if you’re writing a paper for a master’s degree or a doctorate on the subject of evangelism, you definitely need to go through this material, quote it, footnote it because this material is a powerful study that shows the effectiveness of mass evangelism.

Rubens Cunha (35:30):
Thank you. Thank you. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for being with me on the evangelism podcast. I’ll thank you so much for having me here. It’s been a great pleasure.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:42):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And what we found is that as we go to different nations of the world, it takes us an average of about $1 for every person we’re able to reach with the gospel. And so some countries are more expensive. Some countries are a little bit less expensive, but on average, we’ve invested about $1 for every person we’re able to lead to Jesus. So today I’m asking you to go to my website, King ministries.com and give $1, $2, $5, become a monthly partner, help us to lead people to Jesus. Imagine you can start a party in heaven with just $1. Also go to Apple iTunes, leave us a review for the evangelism podcast with Daniel King. So lots of people can find this evangelism podcast. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (36:37):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Rubens Cunha is a Brazilian born missionary evangelist, author, and international speaker who has led hundreds of thousands to Christ worldwide through massive evangelistic campaigns. Many people have been saved and healed at his events. Today he talks about his strategy for reaching Brazil and the world with the Gospel.

Rubens Cunha’s Strategy: 

Engagement of local churches – An evangelistic campaign only takes place if local pastors unanimously agree to work together to reach every single person in their city.

Training through Conferences and Seminars – Before the evangelistic campaign, local Christians receive training on evangelism, healing, deliverance and follow up strategies.

Evangelistic Campaigns – Large crowds gather to hear the Gospel, receive salvation and miracles. Humanitarian projects and Bible distribution take place.

Follow up – Trained Christians follow up with those that made a decision for Christ. New churches are planted. New leaders are raised.

Website: https://www.gga.global/

For Evangelism Coaching, please call Daniel King, the Host of the Evangelism Podcast. 

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Rubens Cunha is a Brazilian born missionary evangelist author, an international speaker who has led hundreds of thousands of people to Christ worldwide through massive evangelistic campaigns. Many people have been both saved and healed at his events today. He talks about his strategy for reaching Brazil and the world with the gospel.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:24):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism podcast.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:02):
I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have with me a very special guest and a dear friend of mine, Rubens Cunha. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for

Rubens Cunha (01:14):
Having me Daniel. It’s a great honor to be here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:17):
So Rubens you have done many, many crusades, especially in Brazil. You were born in Brazil. Tell me some of what God is doing through your ministry.

Rubens Cunha (01:29):
We have had over a hundred crusades in Brazil, especially in the Northeast part of the nation. We come to see it is we work with the pastors and we have large crusades. Our vision is that every single person in town should have an opportunity to hear the gospel. And we are having a wonderful harvest of souls. Church are being planted. Churches are growing. It has been a wonderful journey.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:57):
You mentioned that a lot of your crusades are focused in the Northeast part of Brazil that would be flying into Fortaleza. Some of the other big cities up there. What, what would they be?

Rubens Cunha (02:10):
Fortaleza receive fee Salvador. Those are some of the major airport hubs.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:14):
So often when people think of Brazil, they think of Rio de Janeiro, which is way down South. But tell me, why are you focusing on this Northeast part of Brazil?

Rubens Cunha (02:26):
Brazil is a very large nation. It’s actually a larger than the continental US. And we have had revival in many parts of Brazil. If you go to some Powell or real to the South Southern and South Eastern part of the nation, you find many large churches, a tremendous move of the Holy spirit. But if you go to the Northeast part of the country, there are still a tremendous need for evangelism, for crusades, for missions. The Northeastern part of Brazil remains a vast mission field in our generation with thousands of villages, without a single Christian witness.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:10):
And you have an entire team that is helping you there in Brazil. And I’ve been down there several times with you. We’ve always had wonderful crusades. So many people saved, so many people healed. And one of the things I love about your ministry is you have your very own gospel truck. Tell me about your truck that’s for doing crusades.

Rubens Cunha (03:35):
This was a great blessing from the Lord. And as a word of encouragement to those listening, that’s a vision. The Lord gave me over 20 years ago, I was in a season of praying a of prayer seeking the Lord. And I just had this vision of a truck that I was going to use to preach the gospel around the nation. While 20 years later of the Lord made this vision come to pass. We have a truck that is a self sufficient evangelism. Unity. You could say that it has its own generator, all the lights, the sound equipment. We drive into a city. It opens up my son, my teenager son likes to call it the Optimus prime of evangelism because it, it, it opens up and we are ready to go.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:23):
The optimist prime of evangelism. That’s awesome. So it folds down and becomes a platform. You have lights, sound system, everything you need to make it

Rubens Cunha (04:34):
Say it happened right there. Exactly. It’s a mobile stage. When we park into an area, we, it folds out becoming a platform. We have hydraulic arm that carries the sound system to preach the gospel to tens of thousands of people. We have our lights, we have the generator. So it is a wonderful tool to preach the gospel. We drive it all over the Northeast part of Brazil to hold massive campaigns.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:08):
Tell me a little bit about your history and how you became a Christian and then how you got involved in doing evangelism.

Rubens Cunha (05:18):
Yes. I was born and raised in Brazil, as you mentioned. And my family was deeply involved with African Brazilian religion, which is resembles voodoo. It was type of witchcraft religion. And as I became a teenager, I was deeply involved in that world. But one day I went to a church and as I was in that church, somebody there shared the gospel with me. And as that person shared the gospel, I realized that there was a different kind of power there that I was not familiar with. And that made me very intrigued. You see, I was so deeply involved in the role of witchcraft that I used to talk to the demonic spirits though, at the time, I did not know that they were demonic spirits. You see a lot of people involved in those type of religions are deceived. I was deceived. And, and so th the NTT is the spirits, the demonic spirits that talk to me, he started to threaten me to say, I should not go to that church anymore, but I was so curious, so hungry to know God that I did went back and I went through some crazy experiences to, to be set free and to make a long story short.

Rubens Cunha (06:42):
In one day, as I was being threatened by those demonic spirits, I had the vision from the Lord and this vision, I saw Jesus and I gave my life to him. He sat me free from all that oppression I was under. And he said, I will send you to the nations to bring revival through signs and wonders. And my life was completely changed from that point. On two weeks later, I did my first crusade in my school. I gathered all the students and preach the gospel to them. You started a little Bible club at the time. And later on, I got a hold of healing, the Sikh by TL Osborn. And when I read that book, I knew that was exactly what God wanted me to do. So about a year after my conversion, I started preaching in local churches, start traveling to a different nations. And now it’s been almost 27 years. And I’ve been to over 40 nations in the world, held campaigns that had up to 50,000 people per night. And the Lord has been faithful to his word.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:57):
You are first starting out. You, you weren’t the evangelist, you were helping to organize crusades for other evangelists. What are some of the things you learned in organizing crusades and how to hold a successful event?

Rubens Cunha (08:14):
Yes, I was very blessed to be part of the team of Mike Francen organizing crusades for him in Latin America. And I learned invaluable lessons during that time. One of them is the need to work with the local church. If you are an evangelist, you need to connect with the local churc hes and make sure they will be keeping the fruit of the harvest. When we come into a city, we, we cannot do events just by ourselves. It’s possible that using marketing, or if you are a good preacher, if there is a miracle anointing in your life, you could gather the crowds by ourself, but we need to work with the body of Christ. So that the fruit

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:03):
From the crusade we remain,

Rubens Cunha (09:05):
That was a very important lesson. I also learned about how to set up a crusade, how to promote a crusade, how to find the, the right human resources to help us get the word out. Those were precious years of training that definitely shaped my life in ministry. And now that

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:27):
You are preaching as an evangelist, you see God do tremendous miracles in many of the crusades that you do. What are some of the miracles that you’ve witnessed?

Rubens Cunha (09:37):
Wow, that’s a wonderful question. I strongly believed that a signs and wonders are vital to the proclamation of the gospel. And at every campaign, God has been giving us the privilege of, of witnessing a tremendous signs and wonders our last campaign. For example, wasn’t the nation of Ethiopia. And in that crowd, there was a man who was insane for several years. The men was tied, we’d ropes in his home, and sometimes he would break out and run to the jungle and roam like a wild animal. His family had to hunt him down, bring him back and tie him again. Well, his wife brought him to the crusade and during the prayer for healing and deliverance, that man said that he felt something coming out of his mind, and he was completely healed. He came to the platform and it started to share how, how he was his mind was clear and he was so speaking so perfectly normal that I even asked the crowd, do you know this man?

Rubens Cunha (10:47):
Is there anybody here that knows him? And several hands in the crowd wind up and his wife came to the platform and she testified how she suffered for many years. And, and she said, I have not had a conversation like this with my husband for a long time and Shu, apt, and hugged him. That was one example. I could tell you many more from all their crusades. We were in Pakistan a few years ago. There was a young man, a Buffalo fell on him while he was working on a farm and broke his back. He was paralyzed, but he heard about a crusade. And just like in the gospel of Luke, his friends carried him to the campaign for several miles. They took turns carrying him on their, on their arms. And I did not know that man was there, but Jesus knew it. They put him on a mat at the back of the, the crowd. And during the time of prayer, as a prayed for miracles, I said in the name of Jesus, if you couldn’t walk, stand up and walk the power of God, touch that young man. He jumped on his feet and he started to run. He came to the platform, ran back and forth. It was just a beautiful miracle from God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:07):
So if a Buffalo falls on you, don’t worry. Jesus can even heal you from Buffalo falls.

Rubens Cunha (12:13):
Yes. And amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:15):
On your website, you explain that you have a four pronged strategy in your ministry. The first part is engagement with local churches. Then you have training through conferences and seminars. Then you have the large evangelistic campaigns, and then you have the follow-up aspect. Can you talk to me about how those four work together in order to have a successful evangelistic event?

Rubens Cunha (12:45):
Absolutely. first we work with the local pastors because we strongly believe as evangelists. We need to serve the local church. We need to help the local church grow. So when we do that, we identify the needs of the church. As far as, as growth, we identify for example villages that do not have a church yet. And we work with them to plant new churches. Then we move. Once we get that connection with the local community, we move to train the people. We, we train every single church to have followup teams so they can take care of the fruit. But also before the campaign, we have a week of intense teaching on how to install. The goal is to wake and the local church should the need of weaning souls. So you, you have been to some of those crusades with me, you’ve done a wonderful job teaching as well.

Rubens Cunha (13:45):
We teach them on how to insource, how to pray for healing. We teach about the ministry of deliverance. We teach about the power of the Holy spirit to help us win souls. And once that happens, those believers that were trained, they participate in a crusade. They see with their own eyes that what was taught is real. And after we leave down, there is a momentum that continues and several ministries have been birthed out of those trainings and crusades, and they are still reaching schools in their seats. They are doing campaigns in villages and a steel weaning sauce. So third, we do have the campaign, which is the main event of our project during the week in which we preach a C preach, a simple gospel message. Pray for salvation for miracles. Thousands are saved. God shows up with tremendous healings and also deliverance.

Rubens Cunha (14:43):
And then we go to the follow-up, which I believe is essential. As I mentioned before, to have fruit that remains and our strategy for, to follow up is number one, we use a prayer card. This prayer card has tan space as four names and agreed in front of it. And the greed is as for the believer to Mark, if they prayed for that person, if they invited them to the crusade, if the person made a decision for Christ and was baptized, every single believer in town receives a prayer card for free, the idea is to communicate to them that they are responsible to win souls and take care of the new believers. And it really works because if you think about this, if a pastor takes this strategy seriously, and every believer is spraying for 10 people, and only one per card comes to Christ, the church will double in size. And at every campaign we see at least one church doubling in size and, and sometimes even tripling quadrupling insight. So this works very well. We also, as I mentioned, train followup teams in the church and our follow-up starts today. After the decision for Christ, let’s say we have a Friday night crusade. People make a decision to follow Jesus. Saturday morning, they are receiving phone calls and visits, chewing, degrade them in the local church.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:14):
What a tremendous system we need to make disciples, not just convert. So that up aspect of doing the crusade is so important. You have big vision for the future. What are some of the things that you see God doing in your ministry in the years to come well, first

Rubens Cunha (16:33):
You want to do more campaigns, right? This is really my heart. Is this my primary calling to hold mass compaigns, proclaiming salvation signs and wonders. But I, also believe God is calling a new generation of evangelists. I believe, I believe there are people then you’re listening to us right now that their hearts are, are on fire. They feel the fire in their hearts. As they listening to two evangelists sharing about their experiences. God is calling a new generation of evangelists and, and we have the responsibility now to mentor, train them. I’m starting for example, a mentorship program for evangelists. First in the nation of Brazil, our program starts in March with a hundred young people with a calling for evangelism. I’m going to be teaching them, mentoring them and preparing them to go and start their own evangelistic ministries. I believe God is raising an army of evangelists for the end time harvest. I believe that with all my heart and we now as more experienced evangelists are going to play a significant role in equipping and training this new.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:50):
So if there’s a young evangelist, who’d like to get connected with you, and maybe there’d be some opportunities for them to do evangelism or if there’s somebody who would like to support your ministry and help you with this tremendous vision, what is your website? How can people get in touch with you?

Rubens Cunha (18:08):
Yes. If you are interested in learning more about how to be an evangelist, or if you want to support our campaigns, please visit our website, www.gga.global www.gga.global. And GGA stands for global gospel action, which is the name of our ministry. Welcome.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:31):
Rubens you are a very close friend. You are also one of the smartest evangelists that I know you are married to a German wife. And so of course you, your mother tongue is Portuguese. You’re fluent in English. You’re fluent in Spanish and you’re fluent in German. And so you are super smart. And it’s just such an honor to, to know you let’s finish today by praying in Portuguese for the world to be saved.

Rubens Cunha (19:02):
Do you do that? Absolutely. And before that, that just finished by saying, thank you for having me here. You are also a great friend. I’m honored to be here. I always learn from you. And I’m glad we had the opportunity to do this this podcast together. So that spray I’ll pray in Portuguese. And even if you don’t understand my prayer, agree with me (Prayer in Portuguese) in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:00):
A man. Well, I think Portuguese is just a little bit more anointed than English because that’s a powerful prayer brother. Rubins thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

Rubens Cunha (20:12):
Thank you so much for having me. God bless you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:15):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And what we found is that as we go to different nations of the world, it takes us an average of about $1 for every person we’re able to reach with the gospel. And so some countries are more expensive. Some countries are a little bit less expensive, but on average, we’ve invested about $1 for every person we’re able to lead to Jesus. So today I’m asking you to go to my website, King ministries.com and give $1, $2, $5, become a monthly partner, help us to lead people to Jesus. Imagine you can start a party in heaven with just $1. Also go to Apple iTunes, leave us a review for the evangelism podcast with Daniel King. So lots of people can find this evangelism podcast. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (21:08):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Alan Greene is from Sioux Falls, South Dakota. His mission is to take the church outside the walls of the church building. To accomplish that, he started the LifeLight Music Festival. Over the twenty years of the LifeLight Music Festival thousands of music lovers have come to the music festival and heard about Jesus.

LifeLight is a non-profit Evangelistic Organization based out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. While on a mission’s trip to Mexico in 1998, God grabbed the hearts of Alan and Vicki Greene with the mission of “Taking the Church outside the walls.” LifeLight exists to bring people together across denominational lines, to reach out to communities and beyond with the message of hope and the love of Jesus Christ.  They are missionaries and base their work on Acts 1:8, “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”  They facilitate events, mission trips, Youth Center and Training Center by partnering with local churches, businesses and other ministries. Their founding principle is to offer all events/Youth Center FREE of admission so that all may come, and all may freely hear the Gospel message of Jesus Christ!

Website: https://lifelight.org 

Questions I ask Alan Greene: 

What is LifeLight Festivals?

How did you start doing LifeLight?

Why did you decide to use music to attract people to come to the LifeLight Festival? If music is the universal language, then it makes sense that LifeLight would use this tool to reach people’s hearts as we proclaim Jesus’ name.

How do you raise money to do LifeLight?

What are you doing for the Global Network of Evangelists?

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:01):
Alan Greene is from Sioux falls, South Dakota. His mission is to take the church outside the walls of the church building to accomplish that. He started the Lifelight music festival. Over the 20 years of Lifelight music festivals thousands of music lovers had come to the music festival and heard about Jesus.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:23):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:59):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. And today I have a very special guest, Alan Green. He is the founder of LifeLight music festival, and they have reached lots of people for Jesus up in their part of the country, brother, Alan, thanks so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

Alan Greene (01:26):
Daniel, I’m so excited. I like speaking with other evangelists and, you know our passion, our [inaudible] for sharing the good news of Christ. You know, we share that together and we want to spread that to as many as possible.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:38):
Now you’re up there in Sioux falls, South Dakota,

Alan Greene (01:43):
South Dakota, North central Middle of nowhere.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
And a few years ago, God put it on your heart to do a music festival as an evangelistic outreach. Can you kind of tell me the origin story of how that came to be?

Alan Greene (02:00):
Yeah. You know, it’s a, it’s a quick you know, long story, but I’ll make it short. You know, I was a guy in business. I was in sales and business, all my own business. And and yet many years earlier, God had reached my wife and I through music and Christian music led us into God’s word it, it got us to reading the word and we were on a missions trip to Mexico and I felt like God said, take the church outside the walls, you know, bring the light into darkness and bring the body of Christ together to reach the loss and the scripture, John eight, 12, which we had had had many years earlier when God reaches through music, he gave us the scripture, John eight, 12, Jesus, Jesus says, I am the light of the world. Whomever follows me, will not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.

Alan Greene (02:48):
So we lost a ministry called LifeLight. We came back to our city and as you know, Sioux falls is a medium to large sized city now. And when I say middle of nowhere, a lot of people think that, but it’s a going on now. But in those days people didn’t really understand a lot about festivals or, you know, Christian music and that whole realm. And we felt like I was saying continue to do mission trips like Mexico, but do something in your own city. So we launched this festival on a church lawn and it grew each year. And about three years, we were too large for the church and had to move it to a fairgrounds. And it, that began the story of the LifeLight festival.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:27):
So how many people came on that first festival? How many people showed up? Do you remember?

Alan Greene (03:32):
Yeah, that first festival, you know, maybe 1500 people and which was a lot because it was a residential neighborhood. And you know, I don’t think anybody expected much to happen with this. It wasn’t like we had big band names or big musicians, you know, we just, the whole idea was to gather the church outdoors and you know, bring the gospel to those that maybe won’t walk inside. The church

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:56):
Just started with what you had just on the front lawn advertising. And lots of people started coming. And then how many people were coming when you decided to move over to the fairgrounds?

Alan Greene (04:07):
Well, after the third year at the church, we were over 5,000 people on the church lawn. And so we moved to the fairgrounds and then that’s when it started to explode. You know, then we we were seeing crowds of a hundred thousand people by the fifth year, fourth year at the fairgrounds third, third year at the fairgrounds that they, the fair had said we had 240,000 people. Now that’s over a three to four day period. Cause we, we held the festival Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and that’s how they count those kinds of crowds for fairs and events.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:39):
And so at these music festivals, you had some of the greatest music artists in Christian contemporary music who are some of the guests that you had over the years,

Alan Greene (04:50):
Mo most of any band that people have heard on Christian radio, we would have had, you know, Newsboys and Toby Mac and Lecrae and casting crowns and those, those bands and the list goes on. But what we did is we felt like we wanted three things that we had as distinct distinctives for doing the festival one. We had to offer it free of admission, a lot of great ticketed events and people go to ticketed concerts. But we said, if we’re really trying to say, take the church outside the walls and reach the unchurched Christian, music’s not relevant to them. And so buying a ticket for a Christian festival is not what, what they’re going to do. So we wanted to sponsor it. So it would be free to unified the church, bring the body of Christ together and three be across all generations. So we ended up having six different stages and all genres of music. So one stage might be more of a coffee house setting, praise and worship. Another stage which we called the sold-out stage was pretty hardcore. I mean, we’d have some people that were traditional church people that would look at that stage and be like, Whoa, that’s not music. But you know, it’s hip hop and hard rock and so forth. And then kind of the main stage would, would, would be more of the mainstream music.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:04):
So you had some places for the older people to go. And then some places where you turned up, the music really loud and the old people stayed away from that because their eardrums couldn’t handle it. What a great way to reach to different levels of society and to have a tremendous impact over the years, do you have an estimation of how many people came and, and how many people gave their lives to Jesus at the festival?

Alan Greene (06:30):
Well, you know God knows all their names. I, there, there are people that we don’t know about that we hear years later you know, they didn’t come into a prayer tent. They didn’t fill out a card, but years later we’ll hear their stories. But in terms of crowds, you know, every year from you know, starting 1998 through 2017, we held it every single year in the soup, Sioux falls, South Dakota. So every labor day weekend starting in about 2004, we would see crowds of, you know, a hundred to a hundred thousand, a hundred, 200,000 people every year that would show up. And so over those years, you know, 20 years of festivals again you know, three and a half to 2 million people easily, that that would have come. And I believe that there were over a million souls reached for Christ through that timeframe because of the cards that were turned in the responses in a festival setting where people are kind of crammed against the stage. It’s not really the same as the old crusades where, you know, Billy Graham or someone would leave an open field for people to come. A lot of times people were just raising their hands and, and prayer responders are just trying to get to them so they can hand them material. So some of them get missed, but we know the Lord Lord works on their hearts.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:51):
Wow. What tremendous fruit that is. And I think that’s amazing that you were able to do that right here in mid America. If you go to Africa, sometimes you can gather a big crowd of people. People will walk for two or three days sometimes to come to the festival and reaching a million people in, in some countries would be easier than doing that here in America, but you’re here and you’re proving that there is a way to reach people here in America. And basically as evangelists, we’re looking for bait where Jesus said we’re fishers of men. And so we’re looking for the right bait to attract people to come and to hear the gospel. And so the bait that you used was music. And so I saw something on your website. You said, if music is the universal language, then it makes sense that LifeLight would use this tool to reach people’s hearts as we procreate claim Jesus’s name. And I think that’s so beautiful, just looking for any possible way to draw people into an atmosphere where they can hear about Jesus. And you said something a little bit ago that I found very interesting. You talked about taking the gospel outside the walls of the church. Talk to me about why that’s important.

Alan Greene (09:09):
Well, Daniel, you know, for many years the statistics are real and that, you know, 70% of people in any given community, aren’t going to church anywhere, you know? So, and you know, and millennials, I heard a statistic last week that 43% of millennials don’t believe that. And these were Christian millennials. They’re not even sure that that another person should be telling them or proclaiming about Jesus. And yet 97% of them said the best thing that could happen to their friends is if they came to know Christ and have a relationship with God. So knowing that a lot of unbelievers aren’t walking in the doors of the church, then we, can’t just, we can’t just hope they’re going to come inside the walls. We have to go to them. And, you know, the model of taking the church outside the walls, it’s not unique.

Alan Greene (09:59):
It’s really the call of the gospel and the Bible. I mean, acts one eight is a pretty clear strategy where Jesus says you will receive power when the Holy spirit comes upon you, you will be my witnesses first in Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. So that really was our model and our prayer. And we felt like if we could make it top quality and relevant to people then people would come. And so that’s kind of what happened over the years. It kind of became the, the media hype secular media gave us a free press because, you know, they would say South Dakota and they will go at Sturgis motorcycle, rally or LifeLight, you know completely opposite kinds of events. But the people came,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:42):
I have a lot of missionaries and evangelists who listen to this evangelism podcast. And one of the questions they frequently ask is, is how do you raise money to do evangelism? And, and, you know, I tell people, if you go to my website, just give a, a dollar a month, you could lead at least one person to Jesus for, for every dollar that you give. Because the Bible says that all of heaven rejoices when one sinner gets saved and over the years of our ministry found, it takes at least a dollar for each person that we’re, we’re able to reach it. So I’ve been telling people, you know, for $1, you could start a party in heaven, but it, it takes a substantial amount to, to do a music festival, like, like you’ve done I’ve hired various music artists to come, and it’s not cheap over the years. How did you raise money to make this happen year after year?

Alan Greene (11:42):
Well that’s you know, and the easy answer is it really was and has been God. I mean, if God, this was a movement of God and he moved upon people’s hearts to give especially Christian business people who said, we can give substantially to this as a sponsorship, but it’s interesting. The business guys, I talked to most all of them, you know, you can say, Hey, there’s a sponsorship benefit. You know, you get advertising benefit and they would say, yeah, that’s great. I appreciate that. But they’re doing it because they saw change lives. And we keep talking about reaching the next generation and they saw that happening. But there’s also a lot of work as, you know, an event of that caliber. The bands do not come for free and, you know, we understand that it’s an industry. And so if you’re getting bands of any high level, there’s going to be quite a cost to that.

Alan Greene (12:34):
There’s quite a cost to production. People see these jumbo screens and, you know, an event that attracts 150,000 people. You have to have everything from porta-potties to the parking lot to security, to just lots of operational logistics, which can get costly. But faithful people in, you mentioned just people that give even a little bit, God, God uses every single gift. And so some people in the church over the years have said, well, mass evangelism doesn’t work. It’s not effective. I can tell you, God works through massive evangelism because it’s, there’s just a, there’s a God awareness in the community when something that big is happening and people get on board. And so people gave even small amounts and large amounts and the church partnered. And so we had a partnership with churches, businesses, and individuals who gave to keep this thing happening for free.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
That’s amazing. You have also had a heart to raise up other evangelists into, to coach evangelists. And so I actually met you through the global network of evangelists, which both of us are on the council for the global network of evangelists, which is a ministry of Luis Palau, who is a great evangelist from Argentina and has a heart for raising up evangelists. But you’re very involved in that. Talk to me about what you’re doing to raise up a new generation of evangelists of evangelists.

Alan Greene (14:05):
Well, first we want to identify who they are. And I think there’s a lot of young evangelists who may not even know that that’s there. I mean, they might have an urge, they might want to do something, but they need someone to affirm them in that calling. And then, you know, we always say identify, affirm, mobilize, and equip them to go. And so I hear a lot of stories around the country. Let’s do this, just take business executives or, or ministry leaders. And they will say, Hey, we wanna, we want to get the next generation involved. And then they never really do all of a sudden they’re 88 years old or 90 and they go, Hey, okay, we can pass it to the next generation. Well I think we need to be involving the younger people in their, their thirties, forties now, you know, and and giving them involving them in all of our events. So we’ve been very conscious about that. One of the things I’ve loved and especially serving with you about global network of evangelists you know, Luis Palau ministry is sponsors that and started that organization, but they’re purposed in and getting younger evangelist involved and finding a way for them to serve. And as you know, is we can mentor younger evangelists. Then that gift comes out and it builds confidence in the new ministries have launched.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:28):
It’s a really a new day for LifeLight. You have transitioned to where you are now doing a lot more international evangelism. And you’ve handed over a bunch of the, the day to day running of LifeLight to, to a team. And they have a youth center. Tell me some about what LifeLight is doing now.

Alan Greene (15:51):
Okay. There’s really four areas. One you just touched on. There’s a youth center. We stopped doing the annual festival. We did it for 20 years in Sioux falls, South Dakota, God moved in incredible ways, but he spoke to us and said, that season is over. We may do another festival in our own city, but it was clear that God said, you need to go and you need to do this festival model in other cities. So and in addition to that, my son-in-law Josh who runs LifeLight now had a heart for the neediest community in Sioux falls, South Dakota. And so they launched a youth center. And just about, I mean, it’s, it’s, multi-racial ethnic it’s kids, it’s young kids who are middle schoolers and high schoolers who gather every week at the LifeLight youth center. And they’re coming to Christ, they’re being discipled.

Alan Greene (16:39):
And it is like a missions field because these young people have zero knowledge of the Bible. I mean, you could talk about Bible stories and there it’s like, they have no idea and yet they’re wide open and once they become Christians they’re very bold about it. I mean, they want to learn more. So it’s a youth center and then we’re still doing festivals. We do them regionally. Some national last year was a festival in Michigan even in a pandemic. And then North Dakota one down in Nebraska of Northwest Iowa rural towns in South Dakota LifeLight is doing kind of the, the smaller festival, but deeper, I would say spiritually with people.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:20):
If someone wants to support lifelike or find out more information about your ministry, what’s your website. How can they find out more about you

Alan Greene (17:30):
Lifelight.Org, just L I F E L I G H t.org. And you’ll see the four different areas. You’d center festivals, Josh and myself speaking as evangelists. And then the internship program where we bring people in and train them not only in evangelism, but how to do events. Thank you so much.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:50):
Let’s finish up by praying for people who have a heart to be evangelists. Would you pray for those young evangelists out there that just are looking for any way they can to share the gospel?

Alan Greene (18:03):
Let’s do that. God, we just come before you in the name of Jesus, Lord. We know that at that name one day, every knee will bow. Every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord and father. I know that you have called, and when those that you call you equipped. So we know you have called up a generation of younger evangelists of younger missionaries who have a passion to just go with the good news of the gospel. So the Lord release them, Lord bring them so we can come together in unity for one purpose to let others know about you. Father, I pray that you would provide all the resources as we know that you can pray that you would go before them. And that in all things, Lord, you would be glorified. I thank you for my brother, Daniel and Lord. Those that might be watching or listening to this podcast we believe your Holy spirit is speaking to them. Lord, if there is anyone that’s listening and that they just, they don’t know what this means to have the relationship with you, to put their faith and trust in Christ and Christ alone. I pray you would move up upon their heart. Thank you father, for allowing us to be involved in your work. We pray it in Jesus name. Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:17):
Amen, brother, Alan. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. I’m Daniel King and I’m always excited about telling people about Jesus and I’m also excited about helping other evangelists. And so if there’s something I can do for you go to my website, King ministries.com and get in touch with me. And also while you’re at it, could you leave me a review on iTunes go and your five star review will help other evangelists to find this program because we want to help everyone

Evangelism Podcast Host (19:54):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Michael Ross runs a construction company but he also has the heart to be an evangelist. Is it possible to support your ministry through your business? Listen to Michael’s testimony today to find out.

Mike Ross received Jesus as Lord and Savior in 1984 in Santa Rosa, California. He received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit later in 1992, in Anchorage, Alaska. Afterwards, the Lord called Michael to evangelism in rescue missions, prisons, on the streets, churches and missionary work to nearly 40 countries. He graduated from San Jacinto School of Biblical Theology in 1997. Starting in 2009, Michael began large healing Crusades and launching International Victory Bible Institute (IVBI) Bible Schools in Africa and India. Presently he resides with his family in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.

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For more information on how to be an effective evangelist, please subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast with the Evangelism Coach, Daniel King

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Michael Ross runs a construction company, but he also has the heart to be an evangelist. Is it possible to support your ministry through your business? Listen to Michael’s testimony today to find out

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:16):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:53):
The evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus. And today I have a special guest. His name is Michael Ross, and he’s been very involved in doing evangelism and planting Bible schools, brother, Michael, thank you so much for joining me today.

Michael Ross (01:11):
Thank you for the invitation Daniel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:13):
Tell me a little bit about how you got started doing evangelism.

Michael Ross (01:19):
Well, what happened was I got saved in 1984 when I was a pot-smoking car racing punk and Northern California. And then I went on this journey of studying the Bible with my dad and we ended up becoming total heretics. And that’s another story. But in 1992, I ended up at a Rodney Howard-Brown conference in Anchorage, Alaska, cause we were living in Alaska at that time. And for the first time I saw the move of the Holy spirit and first I thought, Oh, that’s just being emotional. You know? So but I saw those that really abandoned themselves and surrendered in worship would be the same ones that would be on the floor, laughing uncontrollably a short time later. And so I started worshiping like that. And so I ended up getting filled with the Holy spirit Rican recommitting my life to Christ. And for the first time I got mentors that started to really mentor me and the things of kingdom of God, because like I say, my dad and I, we, we were heretics.

Michael Ross (02:24):
We were like the apostle Paul before he got converted to know we were, we were those kinds of guys, guys, you didn’t want to meet, but so you had an encounter with the Holy spirit I did. And once I had the counter with the Holy spirit, right after that, I cooked up with the evangelist of the church and I the local rescue mission opened up for me. And I started to speaking of the rescue mission and the prison opened up for me. But six months later I started speaking in prisons around Alaska, but actually just to go back a step when I got filled the Holy spirit and I was on the floor, I had this vision and in the vision, I was down a hallway with Jesus. He opened a door to my right and I walked in and there was thousands of people for me to speak to and I thought, wow, that’s, that’s crazy. You know? And so I started doing evangelism and I started going out with the guy’s name was Joe Malkay and we’d go into different parts of Alaska doing revivals in different native villages. And we saw some amazing, amazing things, but that’s how I got started in evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:25):
And then what has God done since then? I know you’ve gone to Africa quite a bit and done a lot of crusades over there. What, what doors and opportunities has got open for you?

Michael Ross (03:37):
Well, I stayed up in Alaska for about eight years doing a lot of different kinds of evangelism. Then I ended up moving down to Southern California and I ended up reading of a book, a Chris magazine where talked about Mike Francine and how he’s doing big crusades and overseas. And I didn’t know anybody that was doing that. I mean, that was that’s a, California is like a lost in space kind of area. You know, it’s not like Tulsa, Oklahoma, where there’s evangelist everywhere, it’s missionaries everywhere. And so I, but I, but I saw that and I said, wow, that’s me. That’s, that’s the vision that I had. And so I didn’t know anybody who was doing it though. So I finally just decided maybe, maybe I just gotta go and do it myself. You know, if I could just find somebody to follow that’s like Mike Francine that’d be great, but I couldn’t find anybody. So I just started doing a class called Saturday soul Wayne, which was a relative to Tommy Barnett’s Saturday soul-winning and we would do a carry the cross outreach in front of a Knottsberry farm and Disneyland. I built these two eight foot crosses and then we would do street dramas and we would do what we call the spiritual interview. We would interview in people in a mall with about 10 questions that ended up, gimme some of those questions

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:48):
That you’d ask people in the spiritual interview,

Michael Ross (04:50):
You know, like do you, who do you consider Buddha and Muhammad and, and Jesus to be spiritual people, you know? And then it, it, it asks you all these questions. Do you consider yourself to be spiritually? And it gets down to the question of, if you die today, do you know where you’d go? And so we called it the spiritual interview. I still have it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:09):
And so you’re, you’re opening up a conversation about spiritual things and that, then that gives you the opportunity to, to share the gospel. Because of course many people in California probably think they’re they’re spiritual, but not religious.

Michael Ross (05:22):
Right. A lot of new agers. Yeah. And then we also did door to door evangelism. We did, I took this, I took the team down to the rescue mission. I took him to home. Depot is now a good moment for a short testimony, go for it. So I’m, I’m I take him down to to the home Depot and I’m going to set up my barbecue with my 15 event growing evangelists disciples, you know, and I got permission from the general manager assistant manager of the week before. So he would come out there and we’re gonna, we’re gonna cook up Carnegie Assata. And there’s like 150 Hispanics that are waiting for work. So this, this, Hey, here we are. This is our outreach. And so we start setting up and this guy from the HR and home home Depot comes out and says, Hey, you can’t do this outreach here.

Michael Ross (06:08):
You’re contributing to these, these illegal aliens, you know? And so I thought, Oh my God, what am I doing here? You know, this is, this is not working out here. But somebody said, Hey, let’s just go to the sidewalk. I mean, it’s public property that can’t kick us off. So we moved, we moved everything to the sidewalk and we started the Carney side of the barbecue and put on our tables, rice and beans and guacamole and so forth. We went up to try and assemble the people or the Hispanics, Hey, we got free food for you. You know? And the, and the police came and I thought, Oh, this is not going, not going good. But they went to the other side of the parking lot. So, okay. So we went on with the, we went on with the outreach and I have the Hispanic pastor from my church stand up and preach Jesus.

Michael Ross (06:53):
And we had about, Oh, I’m on the, we had about 70, 70, 80 Hispanics there, you know, and we, he preached Jesus like a, like a passionate, mad dog, you know, did a great job in Espanol. And then we passed out these new, new Testament, Espanol Bibles and let them to Jesus. And so about that time, you know, and they’d all eaten and everything, it actually went great. Considering the bad start, the, the police came over to me and he says who’s in charge of this. And I said, I am. And he says, Hey, you know, I’ve been stalling on your behalf, but really you can’t do your outreach here. I said, well, thank you so much. So we’re done now. Thank you. But anyway, so that was one of my outrageous acts actually in my book there.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:37):
Wow, you’ve got a great book here. It’s called miracle memories, 42 supernatural stories from my life and ministry. And so I really liked the format of this book. In fact, I liked it so much that I’m going to copy it one of my future books, but you’ve got a story of what God has done in different parts of the world. And then you have a miracle moment with a little application from the story. And so I’m taking this idea and I’m going one of my next books. I’m just going to go through and collect all the stories from, from the 20 years of evangelism that we’ve done. And, and there’s great stories. And I find that when I go preach at churches, people like the stories, they love hearing the stories of what God has done the testimonies. And then I’m just going to do a little teaching from, from each one of them. And so I liked, I liked your book so much. I’m copying it, but I’m not copying your stories. I’m using my own stories, but I love the form. It’s great. So, so tell us some of the, the miracle memories that you have in your book.

Michael Ross (08:38):
Well, I’ll tell you another memory that happened when I was in Anchorage, Alaska. I went to preach and do Advancial the first house with this guy named Joe Malkay, who was a full-time evangelist. And he was training me, discipling me. And then I started to do some of my own stuff. So I went out with this team, my church, and we went out to a place called Bethel Alaska. And this is way back about 1996, you know, and actually what I had been studying the word, you know, and, and really became a heretic. But actually all that Bible study really helped me because now when I stood up to preach, I understood so much of the word of God, you know, from all that years of study, even though we went off into heresy, so I had to make some corrections and so forth.

Michael Ross (09:21):
But so when I stood up to preach, actually the anointing really fell on me and the authority, the presence of Holy spirit flowed through me. And so when, when we were in Bethel, Alaska, it was about, we were doing like a week long of meetings, you know, nightly meetings. And that night it was a blizzard. I mean, it was a horizontal blizzard in Bethel, Alaska. So on the West coast of Alaska. And, but nevertheless about 150 native Alaskans, the village is probably 95% native Alaskans showed up to my meeting, you know? And so I’m sitting on the front row and they’re doing the worship and I’m saying, Lord, what do you want me to preach on? And usually I have time to prepare beforehand to ask the Holy spirit what he would like me to say. But in this case, I was short on time, whatever, whatever the circumstances. And he says, I want you to preach on forgiveness.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
And I said, but Lord,

Michael Ross (10:12):
I talked about forgiveness at least a little bit last night. He said, I want you to pre-con preach on forgiveness. And I was arguing with God, if you can believe that I’m the front row before I’m supposed to speak. And so I said, I tell you what, God I’ll make you a deal. You show up in some powerful words of knowledge and healing, and then I’ll know it’s you. So he says, okay. He says, call people up forward with their problems to the lower back and with their teeth. And so I said, okay. And then it was about my time they, they introduced me. I stood up and I just said, I feel like the Holy spirit says, there’s some people out there that have problems in your lower back and people with problems with your teeth, please come forward. So four people came forward and I walked over the first one, put my hand right behind is just one hand on the lower back and just said, Lord, Jesus, you know, be healed in Jesus’ name and just put my hand there.

Michael Ross (11:06):
And the person literally, boom, when I started praying, flew backwards, like four feet and there was no catcher, you know? And they, the boom like, like almost like an angel hit him with a two by four or something. And I thought, Oh my God, I thought, wow, that’s, that’s amazing. And the people, but, but I kinda liked I’m, I’m cool about this. Like, this happens to me all the time, you know, really it didn’t at all, but anyways, so I went to the next person, I said, be healed in Jesus’ name like that. And they flew back on the ground. The second one did. And then, so I went to two people with teeth, robs, put my hands on their teeth, be healed in Jesus’ name. And the person burst out in tongues. And the last one be healed in Jesus’ name. And then he also flew back on the ground, like four feet backwards with no catcher, you know?

Michael Ross (11:51):
And obviously it was God, otherwise they might’ve been hurt, but wow, that’s, that was good. God, that was you. You’re totally got my attention here. So I preached on forgiveness and in my message, I talked about from my own life testimony about asking God for forgiveness of your sins. And then the importance of forgiving others, very, very powerful. And the third thing, forgiving yourself, which can be the hardest thing for people. So I went to each one of them carefully and told testimonies from my own life. And then afterwards I had the people stand up and I let them do a prayer with those three areas of forgiveness. And about the time I was done with the third prayer, the presence of the Holy spirit fell in that native Alaskan church. And the whole place went wild and I stepped back, Oh my God, this is, this is crazy because people were shaking uncontrollably.

Michael Ross (12:45):
People were going into trances. People fell on the ground. People were crying. People were laughing and not just a few people. I mean the whole place went wild and I’m like, Oh my God. And I looked at my team members and they looked at me, Whoa, this, this is just God, this has nothing to do with us. This is just God. And so as a matter of fact, after that meeting the next day, a girl testified how she’d wanted to heaven and told soul story and people testified of healings and miracles. And I thought to myself, you know, I’m going to get back to the local rescue mission and Anchorage, Alaska, it’s going to be a blowout, but it wasn’t. It was like the same regular meeting, you know, because it was the hunger of the people that was really polling on God. Those people were hungry. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
That’s interesting. There there’s different responses in different places because the ground is different. Sometimes you’re, you’re busy planting seeds. Sometimes you’re wander watering the seed. You’re watering the seed. Sometimes you get to reap the harvest. Sometimes though you got to go out with a plow and dig up big stones out of the hearts of people. So every place you go there, there’s a different response. And that’s one of the things to, to know that that sometimes you can have a great success in one area and then other areas that you’re just working really hard and nothing is happening, but it’s all part of, of bringing in the harvest. One of the things I really like about you is that you are a by vocational evangelist, you love doing evangelism love, going to Africa and preaching the gospel, but you also have your own construction company.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:26):
And you’re doing projects here in the United States. In fact, a lot of the support that you need in order to, to do crusades and do ministries comes from your business. So there’s different paradigms that people have for doing evangelism. And one paradigm is to just fundraise and ask for money, but that’s not the only way of doing evangelism. You can also be a successful evangelist and have a job and earn money in, in some way. So talk to me a little bit about how that works and, and why you decided to do business that way.

Michael Ross (15:11):
Well, I would say Daniel that from the beginning I was a businessman and I’ve grown tremendously in my own faith by running a company. And I’ve been an entrepreneur now for over 30 years. And so when you have to believe God for more jobs and money to make payroll and all that kind of stuff, and you have to be accountable before God to pay your ties and your offerings that, that builds tremendous faith as a, as a human being and as a businessman. So I’ve grown so much through having my own business that I probably couldn’t have learned if I just tried to go into full-time evangelism, you know, under a past pastor or a church or something like that. So I really thank God for how that’s that’s come about. And I would say that now my business is doing far better than ever before my business doubled.

Michael Ross (16:03):
Last year, I bought a siding company two and a half years ago. And my income literally doubled from 2019 to 2020. And so and, and it’s, it’s, it’s good because as a businessman, I can always fall back on my company and not be have to feel like I’m need to beg for money or, or have to do more fundraising. And that puts a certain ease in my heart. And just to say something else about it was which be, God would tell me over, I’ve gone 18 times to East Africa in the last 11 years. And so he would tell me, son, I want you to do a crusade in a city, say like Machakos Kenya. And I said, okay, Lord. And then he would help me set the dates. And then I would call my team on the other side of the ocean and we’d set it up.

Michael Ross (16:51):
And now I might not even have the money to do that, but I’m just, the father says you’re doing a in Machakos, these are the dates. And now I’m just going to believe God for the money. I mean, you have to do the same thing as similar way, but so many times what would happen was like maybe a week or two before I was supposed to go, I still didn’t have the money, but I was still believing in God. And so sure enough, a job would come say a $10,000 paint project or something and sure enough. And I’m like, Oh my goodness, I don’t know how I’m gonna get this done on time, but it would get done on time. I would get the check. I’d put the money in the bag and boom, I had the money to go. That happened so many times, but other times I left and there was one time in particular, I left, I was supposed to do cruise two crusades one in India and one in Africa.

Michael Ross (17:41):
And I was supposed to pay for a Bible school graduation. And when I left, I had $5 in my pocket. So I said, I’m not going to freak out about this. I’m not going to get into fear. I’m just going to speak in tongues and stay in the spirit and just trust God somehow some way, this is all going to get paid for and got on the plane and left. And I had two people coming with me on that trip, and I didn’t want to tell them because I didn’t want them to be discouraged. But nevertheless, I got there and the money started rolling in from my company back in California. And the funds came, some friends found out about it and they helped me. And so in the end I paid for everything. But so thank God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:19):
What a, what a miracle that sometimes it takes a lot of faith to be an evangelist and to step out in faith. And, and we’ve seen God provide time and time again, sometimes from sources that you would never expect and you’re trusting us, Hey, God, I pray for the money in God provides because evangelism is close to his heart. And so what, what percentage of your ministry is supported by your own company and your own efforts? Is it,

Michael Ross (18:48):
Well, I’d say over the last 11 years, when I’ve gone these 18 times to Africa, and some of those times I went four times a year as a short-term evangelist, I would go for typically about two and a half to three weeks. And I would honestly I’d have to trust God to run my company while I was gone and believe God that it’s all gonna work out. And none of my customers are going to get really mad and my employees are going to be able to handle it and so forth. So there, there again was some faith to believe God for that. But I would say about probably 90 to 95% of every, all the crusades I would do. And sometimes I would drop 15,000 per crusade. Sometimes 20,000 would come straight out of my company. And so sometimes I would drop as much as 50, 60, 70, $80,000 a year on these crusades I was doing to reach people for Jesus. And so that was, that’s been an honor and privilege.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:39):
Thank God for providing for you that way. It’s sometimes tough to, to solve a problem for someone in Oklahoma, when you’re on the telephone in the middle of Africa, you got call back and I’m sure you guys still deal with customers and run all the details and make sure people are showing up to do the work that you hired them to do. And yeah, it’s been crazy at times. Wow. And then in addition to doing the crusades, you’ve also been planting Bible schools affiliated with victory Bible Institute. So, so [inaudible] international victory Bible institutes which was the Bible school started by pastor Billy Joe Doherty out of victory, which is my home church. And it’s amazing. They have, I think over 2000 Bible schools now in different parts of the world, how many of those Bible schools have, have you been able to plant?

Michael Ross (20:33):
Well, we have about 12 going right now. And what happened was I went and did this crusade in Katua Kenya. And then we went and did another crusade, a place called Machakos and the spirit of God began to speak to me. Son, these people have tremendous hunger for God, but their depth of understanding is only about an inch deep. It’s a mile wide, but it’s only about an inch deep. And so I realized after a couple of trips to Kenya that nine out of 10 pastors had no Bible training whatsoever. So they would, they would go to a scripture in the Bible and, and read a scripture and then they’d go off in an exhortation because they couldn’t link scripture to scripture, to scripture to make a powerful message. So except for Holy spirit, for example, so they just go off on an exhortation cause they didn’t understand, you know, so the spirit of God’s began to speak to me.

Michael Ross (21:23):
He said, son, I want you to start launch Bible schools here in East Africa. So I went ahead and took a course that Ron Stafford’s wife, Jill Stafford was doing at victory called how to launch an international victory Bible school. I took the course. I probably was not a very good student cause at that time I was flying back and forth to California running my company and missing classes. But anyways, I took the course. And then when I, next time I went to Kenya, I cast the vision with the Bishop I was working with.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:51):
I think what qualifies you as a good student in that course is if you actually plant a Bible, right? So, so I think you get an a plus or now having planted 12 Bible schools. True, true. So you went back to Africa with the Bishop there and cast the vision

Michael Ross (22:09):
Cast division to him and his three overseers that represented about a hundred churches. And they said, great, let’s do it later. He told me, he thought I was crazy, but anyways, so he, we went for it and that was about September. And we were going to start the Bible schools in January. So had a good friend of mine, Russell Abbott, who was a New Zealand or who knows now living in Rwanda, he came and helped me. And we launched the first Bible school. And in the end we had 76 students graduate that year. And it was a smashing success. The students thought this was like the most important, greatest thing they’d done in their life. And you know, we, we made it as free of charge as possible. We wanted to specially reach rural pastors and pastors that didn’t have any means and they would come to class and you know, their callers would be all wore out, you know, cause they don’t really have any good shirts.

Michael Ross (23:00):
They’d have a blue shirt on and red pants. This kind of thing is that really have any money. But nevertheless we’d given the Bible schools 27 courses, 15 hours per course. And it was just, it was just amazing. And these 76 students went off to launch churches, become evangelist, become a missionaries. And the fruit was just there and I’m like, Oh my goodness, this is great Lord. This is, this is a great idea you add. And so since then we’ve had like 3,500 students, you know what you’re doing? Yeah. We’ve had like 3,500 students graduate our Bible.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:30):
Wow. That’s amazing. 3,500.

Michael Ross (23:32):
Yeah. So I usually go every November with a whole box of certificates and we pass out these certificates and because they look so good and I have them printed here. And they’re on American paper, which is a big thing for that. They actually are received by many of the local universities as accreditation schools, even though there it’s not. So anyways, that’s kind of a little blessing because students say, well, when can you accredit the school? And I said, well, it’s quite a, quite a difficult process, but what happens is the paper they, we give them ends up being received anyways as a credit. Wow. That’s awesome. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:11):
Talk to me about being bi-vocational in the, in the faith it takes to do that. What advice would you give to other evangelists who they have a job, but they have a heart for evangelism. How should they get started?

Michael Ross (24:28):
Well, I would say they just first thing is to follow the Holy spirit, you know, and realize that Paul was a tentmaker, he was making money and he was very concerned that people might accuse him of fleecing the flock and taking the people’s money. So that’s one of the reasons he’s he goes into this long argument about it in the book of Corinthians about why he’s, you know, making tents and he didn’t ask anything from their church. So anyway, so I think it’s a, it’s a great star to have your own job or your own business and to start saving money, whatever it may be. And if anything, just accompany evangelists like Daniel and go with him overseas and experience it. And that’s a great place to start is find somebody that’s really doing it successfully and go with them, you know, get discipled, see how it’s done and that that’s only going to cost you.

Michael Ross (25:19):
You can do that for Daniel. Can probably get you somewhere or I could get you somewhere for probably $2,000. You know, I would probably go back to Africa again, you know? So and then a person could get great training skills and do a hands-on ministry. I’ll tell you what Daniel, one of the most greatest things is a little bit diversion from your question, but is when I take people with me and I send them out to the streets, you know, or to prisons, and this has happened, I probably had at least six or seven come with me. They come back weeping and crying. I mean, they lead 50 or a hundred, 200 people to Jesus and it’s like mind blowing for them, you know? And they come back weeping and crying. Like their whole life has been transformed and they see their call and their destiny before them. And now they’re actually doing this stuff, not just hearing about other preachers going out and doing this stuff, but they’re doing this stuff themselves. And so that’s very thrilling. That’s one of the greatest joys I get is releasing other people to help them find their destiny and evangelism and maybe it’s pastoring, you know, but it’s doing the stuff. So, yeah, that’s a great,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:24):
Great place to start. Go, go with someone else. Who’s doing a crusade, learn from them and you’ll find that God will start to open up doors for you to do crusades and into be involved in evangelism. All right. We’re almost finished here, brother, Michael, but give me one more, really good story out of your book, miracle memories. What, what’s something really memorable that God’s done?

Michael Ross (26:47):
I, I had so many great stories, but I think one of the ones that’s really stunning that really rocked my world as well, was my first trip to Kenya, which was, I had gone to Mozambique and hung out with Heidi and Roland Baker with Randy Clark and had a great time there was chosen to be one of the leaders. And that was a great, great rising to a new level spiritual level because the truth is, if you go on mission trips, you’re going to go to the next level. I mean, I, I hear that from people all the time, you know, they, they go on a mission trip, you know, wow. It was so exciting, you know, this, this, this, and this happened to me. And I think to myself, they’ve only gone to one or two mission trips. I’ve gone, you know, to 40 or 50, you know? And so anyways, a little diversion, but anyways, so we, so the second trip was that I had the, with this guy named Chris Walsh and I met Chris Walsh and of course, you know,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:37):
Yeah. We’ve had them on the show before. So if you’re listening and go back and listen to the interview with Chris Walsh on the evangelism podcast, it was a great interview. He has a real heart for the first nations people up in Canada,

Michael Ross (27:49):
Right? So Chris was going to do this crusade with a certain Bishop in Kenya. And and I was all excited cause I just got back from Mozambique and I said, well, I’ll go and I’ll just be here. I’ll just assist you. And he said, great, let’s go. So we set the date and it came to pass that Chris could not come up with any money for the trip or for anything, for a plane ticket or anything. And he, every, every week he was I’m believing God, I’m believing God, but still no money came for him, but I had the money. So finally I was praying. I said, Lord, I don’t think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, Krista’s symphony money, this, this whole thing, Cindy canceled. And he says, yeah. And I felt my spirit something’s going to happen here. So four days before we were supposed to go, Chris calls me up, says, look, Mike, I still don’t have any money and I’m canceling.

Michael Ross (28:35):
But the Bishop has asked me if you’ll come. And because they’ve already promised to these pastors in a place called [inaudible], which was a large witchcraft area that a white man and [inaudible] is coming to preach to them. And so I said, well, let me ask, ask the Lord. And so I prayed after I got off the phone, I said, Lord looked up to heaven and what do you think about this? And he says to me, you’re going to Africa. Wow. So I call up the airline and I said, Hey, you know that ticket, I was talking to you about a couple of weeks ago to Nairobi Kenya. What’s the price on that anyways? And she’s, she looks it up. She says, well, Mr. Ross, it’s still $1,200. And I said, wow, cool. I thought maybe a doubled or tripled with four days, four days notice a sure.

Michael Ross (29:18):
And I, and maybe it was seen three days. I kind of forget. But anyway, so I said book the ticket. And so I, so I went on three days notice and I didn’t know this Bishop from, from a shoe, you know he could have been the, the, the Kenyan mafia for all I knew, you know? So I just, and I talked to him on the phone for about 30 seconds. That was it. And supposedly he was suspicious. So I flew to Nairobi, praying in, you know, trying to stay in the spirit now. I mean, here, I’m going to Nairobi. I don’t know anybody. And and I get off the plane and, and go outside and here’s some guys holding my hold, a sign with my name on it. And I thought, well, that’s a good start. And the Holy spirit spoke to me on the way over there. He said, son, you’re one of my lions. And I said, well, that’s nice of you. That’s cool, Lord. I’m excited about that. So they took me to the hotel and got there Kenya, Kenya’s a good place

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:09):
To be a lion because they’ve got lots of zebras to, for lions to eat.

Michael Ross (30:15):
So I get there, I go to my hotel room and what’s above my bed, a picture of a lion. And so I thought, wow, this is a good start. It’s actually working out some something, you know? So I ended up flying to Eldoret Kenya where the Bishop is, what this Bishop was. And he turned out to be like the Billy Graham of, of Kenya. He liked knew everybody. And he was a nice, really sweet man and full of the love of Jesus. And, and he was an amazing evangelist. And so we went ahead and we did a couple of radio shows and stuff like that. And then we went off to [inaudible]. Now this K2 area of [inaudible] was kind of a semi-arid area. And they hadn’t sinned seen rain in some five years. So we thought, Hey, we’re going to bring the gospel because we know it’s their devotion to witchcraft.

Michael Ross (30:57):
It’s stopping the blessing of rain for Africa, which for them is like life, life, and death. And so we went there and I thought, well, maybe we’re going to have a showdown with a witch doctor, something like that. But we didn’t, we just drove into town and started raining. And so it started raining and we had people doing the Jesus video project at schools, and we were doing street evangelism. The whole team was brought team of about 25 people, you know, Kenyans. And a two is a very poor area. I mean, very sad, but young girls would sell themselves for a bottle of Coke. I mean, that’s, that’s how, how bleak the places, you know, and the cows were skin and bones and they were going through the trash looking for food. And so the rain came though, and that was exciting.

Michael Ross (31:41):
And so the Bishop’s going to do his is meeting that evening and he has me do the pastors conference in the morning. And so it’s raining all day and we say, w so we got together. We said, look, it’s great that it’s raining, but it’s going to rain our crusade. So we prayed this prayer Lord, make the rain stop. And then at the end of the crusade make it poor. And so we prayed this bold prayer and the rain stopped and the Bishop went out there and about 2000 people showed up, you know, small crusade. He preached Jesus, you know, and I gave a short testimony. And as soon as he was done preaching, it started pouring rain and all the Kenyans ran back to their homes. And so it rained all night rained in the morning, did the pastor’s conference. It was raining and then the afternoon it stopped. And so Bishop and I came back there to do the evening crusade, about 4,000 people shows up typical African crusades. They double every night. And so we’ve preached Jesus and all that stuff. And as soon as he was done, started pouring rain and Rained all night long rain.

Michael Ross (32:42):
I did the pastors conference. Rain stopped, came out there the third day, the rain stopped. 8,000 people came, you know, and we did the, we did preaching the Jesus and I got to preach some, you know, for the first time in my, my crusade, first time I ever got to preach in a crusade, actually it was fulfillment of the vision I’d seen as when I first got in the Holy first, got filled the Holy spirit that all these people were there, you know? And so as soon as we were done, it started pouring, raining. I’m telling you the truth. It was weird three nights and three nights in a row, the rain stopped for the crusade. And then otherwise it was pouring rain. All the Kenyans ran back to their home. And by the fourth day I looked on the ground, I could see grass growing and it was incredible. It’s really incredible. And so the, the fourth night we had people bring their items of witchcraft and we burned them on the stage publicly. So it was very powerful first crusade for me. And it gave me kind of a reputation that I was kind of an Elijah or something like that, you know, in Kenya. And then the next crusade, I came back to seam with also witchcraft area Machakos. And I said to Bishop, I said, Hey, Bishop what exactly happened in that Machakos crusade? He said, Brother, Mike, you haven’t heard half of the Story. He said, they had so much rain. They had an overabundance of crops. Wow. And I’m like, wow, that was amazing. So that was, that just really rocked my world, changed my life, gave me a whole new vision, built my faith in everything else.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:09):
Crusade brought physical blessings as well as spiritual blessings.

Michael Ross (34:14):
Absolutely. And I don’t know how many got saved, but we had, we had a great, wow,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:18):
Great. Well, if you’re enjoying listening to Michael’s story, I encourage you to go to Amazon, find miracle memories by Michael Ross, just type in miracle. Memory’s Michael Ross. And you’ll be able to find his book and, and see all the stories from what God has done in his ministry around the world. Brother, Michael, thank you so much for being with me today.

Michael Ross (34:39):
Hey, thanks so much, Daniel. I enjoyed it. God bless you. You too.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:42):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. If you want coaching and how to be a more effective evangelists, get in touch with me@kingministries.com. And could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King on iTunes and leave us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find us. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (35:12):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Tim Sutton was saved in a Salvation Army church when he was a child and they taught him how to witness using his trumpet. Today, he trains churches in witnessing. Recently he went to Sturgis, the largest Biker rally on the planet to tell people about Jesus.

Every year Tim Sutton goes with the Chariots of Light to the motorcycle rally in Sturgis which is called “The Larger Biker Rally on the Planet.” This year they prayed with 8,000 people there. He also goes to witness at the Daytona Beach, Florida.

What are “Impact America” Crusades?

Website: https://www.tsuttonministries.org

William Booth was the founder of the Salvation Army.

Quotes from William Booth, the Founder of the Salvation Army: 

Can we go too fast in saving souls? If anyone still wants a reply, let him ask the lost souls in Hell.

Go for souls, and go for the worst!

“‘Not called!’ did you say? ‘Not heard the call,’ I think you should say. Put your ear down to the Bible, and hear Him bid you go and pull sinners out of the fire of sin. Put your ear down to the burdened, agonized heart of humanity, and listen to its pitiful wail for help. Go stand by the gates of hell, and hear the damned entreat you to go to their father’s house and bid their brothers and sisters and servants and masters not to come there. Then look Christ in the face — whose mercy you have professed to obey — and tell Him whether you will join heart and soul and body and circumstances in the march to publish His mercy to the world.

I’m not waiting for a move of God, I am a move of God.

If you need Evangelism Coaching, Call Dr. Daniel King, the host of the Evangelism Podcast.

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Tim Sutton was saved in the salvation army church when he was a child and they taught him how to go out on the street in witness using his trumpet today, he trains churches in witnessing recently, he went to Sturgis the largest biker rally on the planet to tell people about Jesus. And today we’re going to find out what God did at Easter.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:25):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus. And today I have a very special Guest evangelists, Tim Sutton. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Tim Sutton (01:15):
Hey brother, Daniel. Good to be with you today, sir. All right.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:19):
Knowing each other for a while through ICFM the International Convention of Faith Ministries, and then a couple of years ago, you had the opportunity to come with me down to the nation of Brazil, and we got to do a crusade together and had a wonderful time. And so it’s just so much a delight to get to know you because you are a true evangelist. Tell me a little bit about how you got started in evangelism.

Tim Sutton (01:53):
When it all started back there with the salvation army. That’s where I was born and raised where I got saved as a young man, 10 years old. And then when I was 15, the salvation army Bible college students, they call them cadets were at a revival service as well. You might know them. Most churches might know them in our church, preaching go to all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. And it was so loud. I heard the spirit of God say, you’re going to do that. And that’s where it all started. Man, just go to the world, preach the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:22):
Let’s talk a little bit about the salvation army. It was originally started by William Booth over in England, back in the mid 18 hundreds. And William Booth was quite the evangelist and he would dress up all of his people in bright red uniforms and they would have big brass instruments. They’d go out to the street corner and they would start to play music and it would attract people. And when all the music attracted a big crowd, then he jumped up and begin to preach to them. So, so William Booth was a salvation guy. He, he named it the salvation army because they had ranks in the army. They had lieutenants and captains and, and of course he was known as the general of the salvation army. So, so tell me some about what you learned from the salvation army about witnessing.

Tim Sutton (03:23):
Well, we move it all started at a place called the blind beggar. It was a bar of the day. He would go and preach outside of the blind beggar and what they did. They would take the songs that they were singing inside of the bar. There was one notaria song that the words went here’s the good old whiskey, drink it down. And they changed the words to here to storm the force of darkness, bring them down. And so he would go to the corners and preach the gospel. And one day he went home and he said to his wife, Catherine, when he’d been out preaching darling, I have found my destiny. So it was just born in the street like that. And as far as me, man, when I was 10 years old, they had me out on the corner. I would used to go, my dad played the trumpet. He taught me to play the cornet trumpet. We would go to a place called Clara Cox apartments and preach the gospel. When I was 10 years old, before I even started playing an instrument, they had me beating the bass drum and they would get me up to give my testimony. So that’s where it all started. I’ve had a love of going to the streets ever since brother, the Daniel

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:23):
And you continue to play your trumpet. I remember you, you brought your trumpet down to Brazil and, and played, and it was just a tremendous way to usher people into the presence of God. So

Tim Sutton (04:38):
It gets their attention. Yes, sir.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:40):
So now you train people in evangelism and you also take people out to do various evangelistic outreaches. What are some of the evangelistic outreaches you’ve done?

Tim Sutton (04:56):
I do well, the, the, the Lord spoke to me several years ago in Monks Corner, South Carolina, and said your purpose is to stir the church for the harvest and get them out of the four walls into the street. So that’s what I want to do everywhere. I want the church and it was last year, man, with all that happened last year, the church left the building and I’ve been telling everybody, don’t go back. Amen. Don’t stay in the building. Keep going out. So as far as outreach, there’s a, you know, I worked with the chariots of light. I’m a member of the church of light. And people often ask me, do I own a bike? No I don’t. But I’m a soul-winner that goes and helps them. And we went souls to go to Daytona. We go to Sturgis and we also take people out in the local churches. One thing we’re doing in April is an evangelism school out in Iowa, and we’re going to birth evangelism teams in a church there again, so that I fulfill my purpose there, the church for the harvest, get them out of the four walls to the street. Amen. You know, you don’t catch a fish in the bathtub. You gotta get out there with the fish on the Lake. So that’s what we do. So I’m intrigued go with the

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:58):
Motorcycle riders. And for the last several years, you’ve gone to the big motorcycle rally up in Sturgis, which is called the largest biker rally on the planet. And they have all kinds of bikers from all over America. Come to that. What response have you received have, have you been able to lead any bikers to Jesus?

Tim Sutton (06:20):
Oh Lord have mercy. I don’t do it by myself, but all of us together, I was this morning. I was doing some video work and just last year alone in Sturgis, I don’t have the actual figure in front of me, but it got nylon and close to eight or 10,000 people that receive Christ in streets as Sturgis. Same in Daytona last year, over 6,000 that were saved in the streets. I’m not, I’m talking about one by one. When there’s a, you know, 15, 20, 30 of us a day out there. If we all talk to a hundred people a day, it adds up really quick, really quick.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:56):
Talk to me about those conversations that you have with bikers, because bikers tend to be tough. Burly kind of the, the mental image I have is a guy with a beard and wearing black leather, probably some patches on the back of his, his leather jacket. And he’s not the type of guy that you would want to mess with, but how do you start that conversation? And where does that conversation go? How do you turn the conversation towards Jesus?

Tim Sutton (07:27):
One of the things that the president of the church of light that’s brother, bill horn, many people might know him. What God gave him several years ago was what we call the hand of God. And when we reach our hand out to shake their hand, that gets them to stop and we take their hand, they put their hand in our hand, we believe that the Holy Spirit’s going to touch them. They don’t know what’s happening, but God gets a hold of them. And our simple question is that, you know, for sure, without a doubt, 100% certain, are you on your way to heaven? I used to be like, what you said at first, I’ll be honest with you. I was intimidated. You need to think about bikers or whatever. I found out something. Some of them are just big bears, big Teddy bears. Okay. They may put up a front, they may put up a tough man image, but inside they’re people just like anybody else.

Tim Sutton (08:13):
And Hey, every biker that comes to the rally, they’re not a, in a motorcycle biker club, you got everyday people. That’s what I love about it. You got dentists and lawyers and all kinds of people that love the ride bikes. And they come to this bike rally. And because the loss people don’t come to church, it’s a great opportunity to get a hold of them, where they made, never received the gospel somewhere else. So they’re just like, we are just a matter of sharing. The love of God reminded them how much Jesus loves him. Yes, sir.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:44):
You’re going out of the walls of the church to where people are, where they need Jesus and talk to them about Jesus it’s is tremendous. And then you’ve also been doing impact America crusades. Tell me about that. What’s an impact America crusade.

Tim Sutton (09:00):
Well, it started several years ago. Well, what I called SWAT attack evangelism weekend. And that was when we would go with our ministry just on a Saturday, we’d go into a community. We give out toys, candy hot dogs gift cards, all kinds of things. Because fish comfort bait. We would do this in a community, setting an apartment complex, the section eight housing, somewhere like that started out as a one day event. But about three or four years ago, the Lord began to direct me to take that same template and go to a church where we hand out the five to 10,000 flyers in the days before the impact America crusade, we don’t build it as a church service. It’s built as gospel. I spring Fest or as fall festival or something, a community event. A lot of them may realize or come to church, but many people show up to get the free stuff.

Tim Sutton (09:47):
Gift cards, free cell phones, bicycles, toys, candy, thanks for the kids, whatever. But when they come, we preached the gospel. So now we take it beyond the one day on Saturday and we go for three or four days in the evening and people get saved, touched, healed, delivered, set free. And then we involve the local churches in that when they get saved, we have several pastors that get involved. We have them come up each night, introduce themselves so that those who received Jesus are fed into a local church. We want to be sure. And we’re believing God that when that crusade ends on Friday or Saturday, whatever we do in that particular community, that on Sunday morning, they are in church somewhere. That’s our goal impact America crusades. And with all this going on and has been going on in our country in the last few months, I told my wife a couple of days ago, Lord have mercy. That name that he gave me impact America. Crusade is even more pertinent now than it was when he put it in my heart about three, four years ago. I think.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:44):
Amen. One of the things I’m excited about is training other evangelists and coaching evangelist. And I just loved your attitude when you came down to Brazil, because you told me brother, I just want to learn everything there is to know about doing crusades. And now God’s put it on your heart to start doing some crusades of your own. So what are some of the things that you learned being there in Brazil and in seeing the ministry there and what are some of the things that, that you’re hoping to imitate and start doing in your own ministry?

Tim Sutton (11:21):
Well, I’m believing for the masses years ago, when the Lord spoke to my heart, he said, go to the world and preach the gospel to every creature I had. In fact, when we were there in Brazil, you remember I shared with you that the first time we stood up on that stage and saw that massive of people it’s undescribable, because I know I’ve seen that in my heart and, and even really in a dream before years ago, I saw this that God’s going to do there. I don’t believe I’ve touched what God wants to do. So my heart is to go to the world and I learned down there, it’s just the same template here. If you hand out the flyers, get the word out, blankets with what’s happening. I believe the people will come. And I saw, you know, some things that that, that work here and work there on a massive scale.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:11):
Amen. I remember you showed me a little track that you give away with, with a woman on the front. Tell, tell me about that track and why that the story of that woman is effective.

Tim Sutton (12:24):
Well, God dropped in my heart to write a track from that experience. It was at Sturgis, South Dakota, probably about three, maybe four years ago. It was a young lady who I encountered on the street as we were out during the day that she didn’t say it. But to me, it was evident. She probably worked in one of the strip clubs or one of the clubs of that one. She wasn’t a nice girl. Let’s put it that way. And the way she was dressed. And I just took, began to tell her about the love of Jesus. She looked at me and she said, well, I’m too naughty to be saved. I said, really, this is not about naughty or nice at this Christmas. Hallelujah. I said, here’s the deal. God is a giver. He gave Jesus. And if you received Jesus, you go to heaven. Simple as that.

Tim Sutton (13:07):
Well, she did right there on the streets. Amen. And so I wrote a track from that little testimony, praise God of that young lady there realizing that God will touch anybody. When they hear about the love of God. See what’s happened is people look at Christianity. Sometimes as religious, I’ve got to do a certain thing to live a certain thing, keep a lot of rules. They don’t realize it’s simply receiving a free gift of God. That’s what people got to discover. That’s what the body of Christ has got to discover. They think brother Daniel, that it’s hard to tell somebody about Jesus. No, it’s not. Has God ever done anything for you? Just tell him what Jesus has done for you to share the love of God. And that’s basically what happened with that young lady on the streets. It’s not about religion. It’s just about telling people to receive the free gift.

Tim Sutton (13:55):
In fact, I often use that particular terminology. I just ask people, did you ever get a Christmas present? Well, yeah. I said, what did you pay for it? Well, no, that’s right, because it’s a gift. You just receive a gift. And so that’s how the approach I use in the streets. Hey, receive the free gift of God for by grace. Are you saved through faith? It’s a gift of God, not of works. So that’s what we tell them. That’s what I told that young lady. And I’d say it changed her life. And Hey, it’s changing thousands of people’s lives because I got a good track out of it. Hey man. And I share it all over the world.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:28):
What’s the front of the tract say

Tim Sutton (14:31):
The front of the tract says you’re too naughty to be safe.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:35):
You’re too naughty to be saved. And so people start looking at it, but then they find out that it doesn’t matter how naughty you are. Jesus died for you and you can be set free from all that naughtiness. Amen.

Tim Sutton (14:48):
Exactly. Yes sir. Yes, sir. Tell me some more

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:52):
Testimonies of people that have been impacted as you’ve gone out witnessing and, and training others to witness.

Tim Sutton (14:59):
I was just doing a live video this morning. And one of the things God has shown me is that because my purpose is to serve the church or the harvest and get them out of the four walls in the street several days ago, he just dropped him a heart. I’ve got to begin sharing more and more of these testimonies so people can realize it’s not about you have to be fancy, or you have to know a lot of stuff. It’s about sharing what Jesus Christ has done for you. Amen. And one thing that people need to realize is if they will just listen, if they’ll just be observant, if they’ll just pay attention to what’s going on around about them, you don’t have to get a word from God. They’ll tell you what they need. They’ll tell you how you can minister to them.

Tim Sutton (15:40):
And I’m thinking of a certain situation that I talked about this morning when I was on the way to Sturgis South Dakota, just last August. I stopped at the rest area there to, to stretch my legs and walk around a little bit in South Dakota. And I heard this young man well, he’s younger than I am. And he began talking, I guess you may be in his early fifties. And I heard him say, well, I didn’t think I lived to be 38 years old. And so I’m just listening. I didn’t run up. I said, what do you mean? What are you talking about? You didn’t think you would live. I just listened. He was talking to a stranger and he was having a conversation. So I just ma I was milling around there in the, in the register. He reading the historical markers and the different things that had gone on in that area.

Tim Sutton (16:23):
And when it got off by itself, I just walked up to him and I couldn’t. And I, this morning, I was talking about seizing opportunity. A lot of times people will let opportunities pass by. That can be a soul winning opportunity. And so I simply walked up to him and said, Hey, how you doing today? Good to see you just started a conversation. And then I said, couldn’t help. But over hearing, I heard you say, you didn’t think you’d live, but to be 38 years old, I said, did you ever read what Psalm 91 said with long life, will I satisfy you and show you my salvation? That’s what God wants for you. So we had a little conversation there. Then I went right to my question. What do you know, without a doubt, sir, that you’re on your way to heaven. He didn’t. But before we got done, he did brother.

Tim Sutton (17:05):
Cause I don’t ask them. I don’t say, would you like to pray? I simply say, let’s pray right now. Say this with me. And he prayed and received Jesus right there. The thing I was trying to point out this morning to people, brother Daniel, is that you don’t have to be a rocket scientist or somebody with a PhD or a lot of training in evangelism to grab and seize an opportunity. Every Christian can and should be doing that with the people that they meet. There, there are hundreds of testimonies like that. Just talking with people out there where you are. Amen. So that’s what, what I tried to do. Start people. I get the testimonies in every church that go and every evangelism school, let them know what God did through us and remind them that God will do the same thing through you. Amen. Praise God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:51):
Amen. Let’s circle back around to William Booth, who started the salvation army and I’m working on a book about the history of bass evangelism. And one of the chapters in the book will be about William Booth. And so I’ve been collecting some of his soul winning quotes. And I just love these quotes because every time I hear them, it makes me want to be a soul winner. So here’s, here’s one. He says, can we go too fast and saving souls? If anyone still wants to reply, let him ask the lost souls in hell. And so that, that that’ll fire you up. If you

Tim Sutton (18:37):
Fast, faster, one time he told him about that. He said he said I I’m trying to remember just how it went. But he talked about if I have to hang over a hail and play the tambourine with my toes, come off in order to tell them about Jesus, I’ll do it. And another one I love with William Booth, you probably got this one written after researching him. One of the things he often said was go for souls and go for the worst.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:00):
Yeah. What, what does that mean? Talk about that. And how does the salvation army go after the worst?

Tim Sutton (19:08):
Well, the salvation army, the thing about them is, you know, differently than us. And I’ve often told him, I said, you guys don’t forget because I came out of the salvation army. I said, don’t forget the opportunity you have because they help people. They come to them, they come into their doors. They come in to receive help that, you know, they are a blessing to people. So they’ve got an opportunity that some churches don’t have just because they come there. So go for souls and go for the worst. You know, the drug addict, the homeless person, the prostitute, whoever it is, you know, God can change anybody. I can’t say that I can get into the heart of William Booth or the mind of what he meant when he said that, but I that’s quoted all of the place, go for souls and go for the worst. And it always touched me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:49):
The salvation army has always done that. They’ve always here in Tulsa, that right in downtown Tulsa, they have a mission here where they, every single night, they allow homeless people to come in. They give them beds then. And some of these are very rough individuals that are dealing with addiction and they’re addicted to alcohol, to drugs, you know, have very serious issues in their lives, but they’re there ministering to them and feeding them and giving them a place to sleep. And what a tremendous legacy that William Booth left. Here’s another one of his quotes. He says, not call. Did you say not heard the call? I think you should say, put your ear down to the Bible and hear him. You go and pull sinners out of the fire of sin. Put your ear down to the burden, agonized, heart of humanity, and listened to its pitiful whale for help. Go stand by the Gates of hell in here, the damned and treat you to go to their father’s house and bid their brothers and sisters and servants and masters. Not to come there. Then look Christ in the face whose mercy, you have professed tow Bay and tell him whether you will join heart and soul and body and circumstances in the March to publish his mercy to the world. What a tremendous yeah.

Tim Sutton (21:11):
At Harper. So he had a heart for souls. I mean, that’ll just fire you up. My prayer will be God, do it again. You know, do it again. Do it in every denomination, every church, every body of Christ, every, every believer do it again. He had a heart for the lost, had a heart for the lost

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:27):
Another quote from him. He said, I’m not waiting for a move of God. I am a move of God.

Tim Sutton (21:33):
Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:34):
What a Tremendous legacy to, to think that you’re not waiting for God to move. You’re going out and taking God’s love to people who need them the most.

Tim Sutton (21:46):
Amen. Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:48):
Tell me about the book that you wrote. You just recently read your book and yeah.

Tim Sutton (21:54):
Yes, yes. You, you may not remember it Daniel, but I called you years ago before we really got connected and was asking you about that. And I didn’t know what to do, how to do it or whatever, but in the timing of God, yes, we just released a book last year called warning. Don’t forget what you’ve got. And that is the power of the anointing. And the ability of God is on the inside of you. The body of Christ needs to realize that we are the temple of God he’s in us. And all he’s waiting for us to do is to let him out. People run around and talking about, like you said what are you boosted? I am a move of God. You know, years ago, the Holy spirit spoke to me and he said, many people are wondering, where are the miracles?

Tim Sutton (22:34):
Where are the miracles of Elijah? Where are the miracles of the prophets? Where are the miracles of Peter and John spirit of God spoke to me? He said, the miracles are inside of you. Amen. So this book, the premise of it is that we can release what’s already on the inside of us so that people can come to Jesus. You know, years ago, brother Hagan used to talk about healing being the dinner bell. So when we released the power of God on the inside of us, I believe that they will cry out just like that. Philippian jailer did and say, tell us what must I do to be saved. Yes, sir.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:09):
If someone is interested in finding out more about your ministry or interested in supporting you, what’s your website, what’s the way for them to get in touch with you.

Tim Sutton (23:19):
I can get us in touch with us at T Sutton ministries dot O R G R. We of course, on Facebook, just Tim Sutton, the personal page and Tim Sutton ministries international the ministry page, praise God. So they can get in touch with us like that. If they’d like. Yes, sir.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:37):
That’s awesome. And if a church wants you to come and teach about soul-winning, you’d be willing to come and do that. Absolutely. Let’s go yesterday.

Tim Sutton (23:46):
Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:47):
Amen. Well, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast. It’s always great to

Tim Sutton (23:52):
Talk to you. Yes, sir. God bless you, sir.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:54):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. If you want coaching and how to be a more effective evangelists, get in touch with me@kingministries.com. And could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King on iTunes and leave us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find us. God bless you.

Evangelism Podcast Host (24:23):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again that’s King ministries.com.

The Global Network of Evangelists was started by Luis Palau. Their goal is to identify, affirm, equip, and mobilize younger evangelists by developing a network of evangelistic networks that seeks to celebrate and accelerate evangelism worldwide. Today, we are joined by Desmond Henry, the director of the Global Network of Evangelists.

Questions I ask Desmond Henry 

How did you become passionate about evangelism?

What is the vision of the Global Network of Evangelists?

What’s the origin story of the Global Network of Evangelists?

What are some of the ways the Global Network of Evangelists can help those called to evangelism?

About Desmond Henry: https://btc.academia.edu/DesmondHenry/CurriculumVitae

For resources on evangelism and to join the Global Network of Evangelists, I encourage you to visit the website: https://www.evangelist.global/

For Evangelism Coaching, check out The Evangelism Coach from King Ministries International

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
The global network of evangelists was started by Luis Palau. Their goal is to identify, affirm, equip, and mobilize younger evangelists by developing a network of evangelists networks that seeks to celebrate and accelerate evangelism worldwide. Today, we’re joined by Desmond Henry. The director of the global network of evangelists.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:24):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:00):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest Desmon. Henry is the director of the global network of evangelists, brother Desmond. Thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast today.

Dr. Desmond Henry (01:21):
Thanks Daniel. It’s so great to be with you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:24):
So I’m in Tulsa, Oklahoma, you are in South Africa and you were recently awarded a PhD in mission studies. Tell me a little bit about what you studied, where you studied and what came out of that study about evangelism.

Dr. Desmond Henry (01:45):
Yeah. Thank you for that, Daniel. I graduated with a PhD in the field of misseology from the university of Pretoria in South Africa, actually 2012, if I remember correctly. And so it’s been a little while since the study has been concluded, but I’ve, I’ve done some studies into the, the history, particularly of the Baptist movement in South Africa, its beginnings, how it’s developed and how effective churches are in evangelism and discipleship in the 21st century. And I did that primarily, obviously I taught within the Baptist seminary at that time. And and because I grew up Baptist, one such, you kind of know a little bit more about our history in the country and and, and more recently, of course how we can be effective as ministers within that particular denomination in South Africa and throughout Southern Africa as well. So it was a very interesting research project that took me on a road trip visiting probably about 80 or 85 different back sister congregations in South Africa. And they’re very diverse from like very Calvinistic and reformed on the one hand to very charismatic and spiritful than the other hand as well. And so it’s fascinating studying those different congregations and, and just seeing what God is doing in these movements throughout South Africa. So it was a great learning curve and I’m so glad I did it. I’m pled to, it’s done. Phd studies are not always easy, right? Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:23):
I agree. I graduated a couple of years ago with my doctorate of ministry from oral Roberts university and it was good going through the process, but I am glad it’s done to praise the Lord. So while you were studying and then before and after, you’ve also been very involved in, in planting churches and pastoring churches and in ministry and churches, you’ve always had a passion for evangelism. Where did that passion come from? How did that develop in your life?

Dr. Desmond Henry (03:55):
That’s a, that’s a great question. Daniel. I remember being a kid probably seven years of age, standing on the sidewalk in a city called Florida in Johannesburg. Can you believe it? We have a Florida here and, and this big bus came past and the driver stops right next to me and then asked me, Hey, young man, do you want to come to church? And what was particularly interesting about that experience because I’d never been to church before. And this, this bus driver was was nonwhite in, in South Africa. And those were during the, the, the days of apartheid in South Africa. And so it was very unusual for you know, to have a, in nonwhite best driver. And so I was really curious, like, what, why is this happening? You know, what is this got to do with church? And, and why does the church suddenly look very different to, to what you know, society does in general.

Dr. Desmond Henry (04:51):
And and his name was Willy and incidentally. He actually comes to the church that we pastor and we helped appliance a couple of years ago in Johannesburg now. And it was just such a wonderful experience that just catching up with him a little bit and and just hearing, you know, how he, he kind of served the board in, in ministry, but that was his deal back then in the early nineties or late eighties rather he served as the best driver and he brought a number of children to Sunday school back then as they called it. And I gave my life to the Lord at a young age and really had amazing mentors in my Christian faith. And, and that was probably what led me to become more evangelistically minded, I guess, is because that was the culture that I was brought up into our pasta moments, Schaffer.

Dr. Desmond Henry (05:43):
I was very missionally minded. He loved serving the community. He took me on, on mission trips and, and he really encouraged me in that way. And so I started my first church plant with a former rugby player, a national rugby player called Johnny Bookner. And we planted a church when I was, I think, 16, 17 years of age in a squatter camp, which is an informal settlement or shanty town just across the, the, from where we lived in Florida. And we, we planted a church in a bar and eventually the owner of the bar came to faith and we turned the bar into a meeting hall and eventually the church grew so big that the bar close down and replant the church in its place. And so just so encouraged to see God at work. And that’s really how I became very passionate about serving the Lord in evangelism and mission at a young age.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:42):
Wow. What a great story. The bar becomes a church and hopefully everyone who was in the bar becomes a believer. So that’s wonderful. And so recently you were asked to be the director of the global network of evangelists, and I’m also part of the global network of evangelists. I’m on the council, which I’m very honored to be a part of that. So let’s talk some about the, the vision of the, the global network of evangelist. What’s that all about?

Dr. Desmond Henry (07:15):
I know we certainly are very pleased to have you as part of our, our council there. And the global network of evangelists of course, was was something that was planted the seed that was planted at the 500 celebration of the reformation in Vincent Berg, Germany, where through the Lausanne Movement, they gathered a cup about a hundred leaders from around the world in Wittenberg and Kevin Palau got to sit around the table with a number of different leaders, Rafael Anzenberger from France, Emmanuel, Chris Xera from Kenya and Emma barista from Botswana. And they spoke a little bit about what God was doing around the world. And it was the vision for GE was really spot at that time. Now, of course, the Luis Palau Association have been working collaboratively through what is known as the Next Generation Alliance for about two decades, a ministry that was started by Luis Palau to encourage and equip and mobilize younger evangelists.

Dr. Desmond Henry (08:22):
But of course, this had been primarily a North American movement, and hadn’t really seen a lot of growth around the world. And when Kevin Palau made some of these leaders, of course, the vision was to take this expression and model those around the world, including evangelists from Africa, from all over Europe, Southeast Asia, and all parts of the world to join in those, this global network that would again identify from equip and mobilize evangelists around the world. And so the vision of GNE was born a number of years ago and has gained momentum and keeps growing as we progress forward in this great vision.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:10):
Let’s talk for a moment about Luis Palau. He is a great evangelist. He was born in Argentina and has often been called the Billy Graham of Latin America. He started his ministry doing lots of crusades across central and South America, and is been very well known in Spanish speaking countries for, for many years. And then he came to the United States and started doing large festivals, using a festival model of evangelism here in the United States and, and has done tremendous work. And I’ve had the honor of going to several of Luis Palau festivals. I went to one in New York city a few years ago where he said that when he was very young, God put the dream and vision in his heart to do an evangelistic outreach in New York city. And it took almost 60 years for that dream to come to pass, but we went and he preached the gospel right there in the, the middle of New York city in, in central park and then a new times square.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:25):
It was so awesome because of course, times square has all the big television screens and, and all the advertisements. And for 30 minutes while Luis Palau was preaching the gospel, all the advertisements went away and it was just a presentation of the gospel that the thousands and thousands of people that go through times square every day could hear a clear presentation of the gospel. So, so Luis Palau is a, is a great evangelist. And in about 20 years ago started the next generation Alliance, which was the goal of that was to, to raise up evangelists. And one of the things that I really like about the, the Next Generation Alliance, the NGA was this phrase that they have, there are many expressions, but one message. And so in the, in the next generation Alliance, they have many different types of evangelists. Some of the evangelists are what people typically think of, of evangelists, you know, standing on a platform, preaching the good news, but they also have action sports evangelists that ride bikes and do bicycle tricks, and then preach the gospel as a way of attracting attention that the, the everyone comes to watch the bicycle tricks, especially the young people, but then they take it an opportunity to, to share the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
And then they have musicians that are involved in, in sharing the gospel and a motorcycle trick riders and many different expressions. And, and they’ve been very open in extending their arms to evangelists and making a place for evangelists to build friendships together, and then to collaborate, working together, to do evangelistic events, which I think collaboration is such a great value to have because none of us can accomplish what God has called us to do alone. We need one another. And so I’ve done several large events in different countries where evangelists from the Next Generation Alliance have come and participated and we’ve joined hands together. We’ve linked arms together in the fundraising aspect of it, and then in the preaching in the ministering. And so I’m very grateful for the Next Generation Alliance. And now there’s been this transition from the next generation Alliance to becoming the, the Global Network of Evangelists, which, which the next generation Alliance has 700 some evangelists that are participating many of them from North America. But now the vision is to develop a network of networks that the, all the different groups of evangelists from many different parts of the world can join together, work together, be in relationship with one another, encourage one, another cheer for one another, and start to develop relationships with one another. So, so talk to me some about this, this network of, of networks and, and kind of the vision, the goal of the global network of evangelists for building a worldwide network of evangelism, people who believe in evangelism.

Dr. Desmond Henry (14:05):
Awesome. I just love the way you described this ministry and and I think you’ve captured it so well. You know, we’ve, we’ve really had a heart to see evangelists working together for the sake of the kingdom for so many years. And I think part of that comes from the reality, of course, there, the plows association is headquartered in Portland, Oregon. And so I think in, in many ways, being in Portland has shaped more of a creative mindsets and innovative mindsets around how we can effectively reach secular cities for the more Jesus Christ. And what we’re really excited about as you, as you mentioned, is is in the next three years or so launching about 50 country networks of evangelists around the world where we elevate evangelism at a national level. And, and very often going into a particular country, you will see that there are pockets of things happening in different areas, but really at a national level, will you see leaders coming together and be willing to lay aside what we call their logos and their egos,ufor the sake of pursuing ways of reaching people in their country from a national perspective.

Dr. Desmond Henry (15:25):
And so we see ourselves as coming alongside these national leaders and evangelists and, and really supporting the work that they’re doing in bringing people together. And so we would love to convene leaders around the world and, and speak through what’s happening in their country and their cities and help structure them more of a plan towards evangelistic effectiveness and further in their particular communities. And so ultimately we have to be in 150 countries but we’d really want to do some deep work in these nations, working with leaders. And so for us, it’s not about numbers, it’s about names, people, ministries, countries, bringing people together for the sake of unity and working together with those countries. And so we’ve, we’ve pursued that and continues to do so, but even national level is not probably deep enough. You need to move down into cities.

Dr. Desmond Henry (16:25):
And so we’ve selected about two to three cities in every region, and we have UN nine regions around the world where we going to be focusing in and meeting with city leaders are doing a little bit of research as well to ask them, you know, what is the temperature evangelism in this city? What’s, what’s happening. And often we find that just bringing pastors and leaders together in a particular city can have a profound impact on what happens in their particular city. So asking some key questions around what’s happening, vandalism, what resources are there that what they feel is lacking what’s some of the needs are around this and what they feel God could do that particular city and another wonderful initiative that we, that we are very focused on it right now is what we calling advanced advanced group mentoring. And so this is more on a local basis.

Dr. Desmond Henry (17:23):
We have the national, we have the city, and then we have the grassroots level where evangelists majority world evangelists are bi-vocational generally speaking. There are very few evangelists that have ministry that sustains them financially. And so they serve in business as or have a secular job or they pastor a church. And so there are a lot of pastors to revenge lists too. So we, we like to bring these groups together and we’ve got some great material, great friends at the message trust in the UK has been Ben Jack wonderful mainstream guide that allows leaders to meet once a month for about two hours to pray together, to get sharpened on the word of God, to, to speak about and, and encourage one another about what’s happening in ministry share testimonies of effectiveness and, and even allow each other to share about what projects they have going, which of you to collaborate.

Dr. Desmond Henry (18:35):
And another big part of this, this movement called advance is is accountability, very evangelist you know, develop character alongside competency and skill in, in their particular focus area. Because I think character matters a lot in, in, in, in, in how we serve the purposes of God in our generation. And so asking those deep accountability questions. And so that’s, that’s a strategy that we have, and we’ve got the grassroots level, city level national level. And we’re really excited about what God is doing in exploding. These groups. We have advanced groups meeting now in over 35 nations, we’ve translated the material it’s about nine or 10 different languages with about six or seven store to go. And it’s just wonderful seeing hundreds of these groups meet around the world. And and we’re working in a number of cities around the world

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:35):
I’m involved in, in several different groups of evangelists. I actually have my own group of evangelists called the, the, the soul winners Alliance. And it really came out of a desire to build relationships with other evangelists and to see how I could help other evangelists. And so we’ve had a variety of meetings here in Tulsa of gathering evangelists together. And then I’m also part of the the network of empowered 21, which is a group of Pentecostal, charismatic spirit, empowered evangelists called the Global Evangelists Alliance. But I’m also part of the global network of evangelists. And I think it’s important to paddle your canoe and many different rivers to not limit yourself to just one group of relationships or one group of friends, because what God is calling us to do in these times is bigger than what any one group can do.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:41):
We all need to work together and to have relationships with one another and to, to join hands. And, and I think during this time, it’s important to draw circles of inclusion and not lines of separation for too long members of the body of Christ have, have been separated over sometimes very small theological issues. But I think it’s important to, to open our arms wide and to accept people of many different expressions of the faith. And so I’m just so delighted in, in what the global network of evangelists is doing, building these, these networks of evangelists in these different countries and the advanced groups. This is going to have a significant impact on evangelism around the world, which, which it’s harvest time. People all over the world are ready to come to Jesus. If someone will just go and talk to them about Jesus. And so part of the, the mission of the global network of evangelists is, is to encourage and lift up those who have a gift of evangelism upon their lives, and then to connect them with others so that they don’t feel alone so that they feel like many of us together can, can accomplish something great for God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:03):
So if someone is listening and they have a calling to be an evangelist, what are some of the things that the global network of evangelists can do to help people who have a a calling in evangelism or have that desire in their heart and how can people get connected with the global network of evangelists?

Dr. Desmond Henry (22:25):
Thank you. Thanks, Daniel. That’s great. And I so agree with you. Luis Palau has often been quoted saying you know, one evangelist, one church, one leader can only go so far, but together we can do so much more that you can rapidly capture God’s heart for us in this cultural moment, unity and the coming to all these streams.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:49):
What’s the website of the global network of evangelists.

Dr. Desmond Henry (22:54):
If you go to the evangelists.global, I think you’ll be absolutely blown away by some of the amazing resources available to you. The first one is a resource on collaboration where we’ve got some practical guides that we’ll be able to help you to take your collaborative efforts to the next level of collaboration, manuals, and helpful resources along the way, and advanced groups section, where you can download great curriculum and join advanced groups that are meeting globally and bespoke resources on a number of practical areas that will really bless you as an evangelist.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:32):
So I encourage you if you’re listening, if you’re a, an evangelist, a missionary, a pastor who has a heart for evangelism, if you want to be used by God to lead people to Jesus, go to evangelists.global, find out more about the global network of evangelists and more of the resources that are available to you. And, and so the website is evangelist.global and, and it will be a blessing to you Desmon. Thank you so much for joining me today on the evangelism podcast. I really appreciate you taking the time to share with us about the global network of evangelists.

Dr. Desmond Henry (24:14):
It’s been a great joy and privilege for me, Daniel. Thank you so much for having me. God bless you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:20):
Thank you for listening to the evangelism podcast today. I want to encourage you to go to Apple iTunes, subscribe to the evangelism podcast. And could you do me a favor, please give us a review on Apple iTunes. Your review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. And if you need coaching in evangelism, give me a call, check out my website, King ministries.com

Speaker 4 (24:52):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Ben Jack is advancing the Gospel by forming Advance groups that are designed to equip, encourage, and empower evangelists through monthly mentoring sessions. Advance groups have been wildly successful in Great Britain and now they are spreading to many nations in a variety of different languages.

What is Advance? The Advance Evangelist Movement exists to promote and stir up the gift of the evangelist. Through Evangelist Group Mentoring and the personal witness training offered from Advance Bootcamps, they are committed to equipping and empowering those who have a desire to prioritise the sharing of the gospel, be it from a stage or a one-to-one conversation.

Website: advance2020.org

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Ben Jack is advancing the gospel by forming Advance groups that are designed to equip, encourage and empower evangelists through monthly mentoring sessions, advanced groups have been wildly successful in great Britain. And now they’re spreading to many nations in a variety of different languages.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:20):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited to have a special guest with me today. His name is Ben Jack, and he is from the other side of the pond. He is from great Britain. And so we’re just so delighted to have you on today. Ben, thank you for joining me.

Ben Jack (01:15):
Oh, it’s great to be here, Daniel. Thanks for having me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:17):
So tell me a little bit about your background in evangelism and how you got passionate about serving Jesus.

Ben Jack (01:26):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I became a Christian in my teenage years. I grew up in a Christian home, but it took a while for it to kind of stick in my, in my heart, in my mind that Jesus was going to be Lord and not just the kind of part of my culture, you know, and when it did finally stick, I was thinking about going off to university or college as you call it in the States. And because of this new relationship that I have with Jesus, I felt like, you know, I’m not sure if I should go to college at this time, I feel like I want to go serve the Lord somewhere. So I ended up at youth for Christ here in great Britain. And I did a couple of years with them as an evangelist reaching out particularly to young people in a high schools, we’re very privileged over here to have access to high schools, to be able to share faith religious education as part of the curriculum.

Ben Jack (02:08):
And often Christians will be invited in to teach about Christianity and other subjects as well, which is great. So we would do that, but we would use creative arts to help engage the young people. I was a DJ. And so we’d use music to get them engaged in workshops with them and music classes as well, and then invite them to concerts where they could then have a good time, but crucially hear the gospel. And out of the back of that, I then continued on and I became a DJ in the, in the club scene for a few years and was just reaching out to that challenging environment, a lot of lost and broken and hurting and needed people in that world. And just trying to be light in, in what is often quite a dark environment after doing that for quite a few years, felt like the Lord was calling me then to more specifically turn DJ concerts into you know, evangelism comp concerts is that you can’t preach the gospel while you’re deejaying in a nightclub. You can talk to the, to the bar owners and the staffing be very relational, which is great, but I really felt like I wanted to use the music as a platform for them proclaiming from the stage. So we began to do those concerts over many years, but then for the last six years I’ve been working for an organization in Manchester in the UK called the message trust where we have established this, this project called advanced, which is all about equipping and encouraging the church for evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:20):
Yeah. And you’ve had really tremendous success in great Britain raising up evangelists in, in helping to, to mentor and coach evangelists. And it’s all through the advance group mentoring guide, which I have a copy of it right here, the bright red cover, which is beautiful and I’ve gone through it, great material here. And in fact this next week I’m going to Sierra Leone and we’re going to be training some evangelists there. And so we’re taking this material with us and we’re going to put it in their hands and they’re going to be starting advance mentoring groups in Sierra Leone, which is super exciting. So, so tell me how this got started and what you’ve been doing with it.

Ben Jack (04:07):
So the founder of the organization, the message trust is excuse me, as an evangelist called Andy Hawthorne is, is well known over here in the UK for really pioneering evangelism and evangelistic opportunity, particularly in the city of Manchester, but then around the UK as well. And he, six years ago really felt that as he gets older in years, he wants it to mentor younger preaching evangelists. So he gathered 12 around himself. I was one of those and he began to mentor us once a month for a couple of hours. And it revolved around five basic principles that we would meet regularly. That’s once a month, we would sharpen at each other in what the gospel is to really make sure that we weren’t miscommunicating, that we weren’t starting to preach our own ideas or the culture of the age or anything like that.

Ben Jack (04:51):
But what is the truth of the gospel and let that come through clearly, rather than through any of our clever, you know, communication or anything else. So sharpen each other, what the gospel is, accountability, that would be Holy people who carried a Holy message. Again, not to take away the accountability of the local church or the accountability of within a marriage or something like that. But just to be another layer of accountability that particularly focuses in on things around the task of evangelism and proclaiming living and proclaiming the gospel communication was another principle that between group meetings, we communicate with each other stories of encouragement, prayer requests and things like that. And then number five was that we’d think about multiplying one day that we would also then do what you’re doing by taking this guy to Sierra Leone. And that we would think about taking on a new group of our own or encouraging others to do likewise. And so we started that one group in Manchester six years ago, and now we have a thousand or so groups in 55 countries around the world. And I think it’s simply because the, like God likes it when we prioritize his gospel and his, and his breathed upon it. And the church needs as much resourcing and help as it can get that to be faithful to what God’s called us to do.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:07):
That is absolutely amazing. I think it’s a huge miracle. What you’ve done getting evangelists together. Talk to me about why you feel it’s important for evangelists to be in relationship with one another.

Ben Jack (06:22):
Well, I think evangelists could often be wired a particular way where there’s still quite a lot of diversity within the fraternity of or the sisterhood of evangelists, but there, we can often be wired quite similarly. We can be quite a Maverick in how we approach things and, you know, always wanting to get out and a back out. And sometimes we can come become a little bit disconnected to our local church community. One of the things that advanced really seeks to do is, is create community for the evangelist to grow and thrive, but consistently points back to the local church community and says like, you don’t get detached, don’t become isolated. Isolation will actually harm your ministry rather than help it. And so I think we need to be called in to fellowship. We need to be sometimes we want to champion enthusiasm.

Ben Jack (07:09):
We want to say, yes, keep going, be enthusiastic, keep, keep going and doing what God’s called you to do, but never neglect fellowship, never neglect the preparation. That’s why we have installed in it as as the first principle regular meeting. And we say, you know, you should treat that as a secret thing, even if a good opportunity ministry wise comes up, that you’ve already got your date in the diary. How seriously are you going to take it that God can do more with you in the secret place than he can in the public place. And if you want to go serve in the public place, you need to first prepare in the, in the secret place for want of a better term. So we certainly don’t want people to neglect their responsibilities out there in the world, but we also want to take it very seriously that God wants to prepare his people for his purpose.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:51):
So some of the 12 lessons that you have here in advance are the identity of the evangelist, the message of the evangelist, the task of the evangelist, the power of the evangelist, the devotion of the evangelist. I’m seeing a theme here of everything has to do with the evangelists. So the submission of the evangelist, the character, the opportunity, the commitment, and then the, the inspiration of the evangelists. So talk to me about some of these key principles that you feel it’s important for evangelists to talk about with one another.

Ben Jack (08:27):
Well, we’re actually developing a new version of the guide at the moment that gives you three years worth of group sessions, or what you have at the moment is just the first year. And in that first year, what we really wanted to do is make sure that we were talking about the character of, of the, of the people that are called. And I think we have a lot of evangelism training and equipping that is, that revolves around method. I’m going to give you a particular tracks or a particular way of explaining me, ABC of Greg gospel. And those things are very helpful and important for us. But before we employ a method, we need to make sure that we’re, we’re going to be good messages. And I don’t mean as communicators. I mean that our hearts are right before the Lord. And if we want to do that, then we need to understand the message deeply and richly.

Ben Jack (09:13):
Again, not just intellectually, but we need to know it, it needs to know us as much as we know it. And so are we letting God actually transform us into his ambassadors? That, that we, that we would know what it is to be ministers of reconciliation, because it’s not just a title that we hold. It’s the reality of who we are when we become Jesus followers, where we’re now not going to be ministers of reconciliation into the world, simply because Jesus has told us to, we’re going to be ministers of reconciliation, because this is who we are. Now we have a new identity. It’s just what flows forth from a Jesus person. So the character stuff that we outline in that first year is very much about what if we thought a little bit more about the people that God is calling us to be in light of what his gospel is, how might that affect us for our evangelism into the world. And, you know, as Leonard Ravenhill said, any method of evangelism will work, you’ve got is in it. So how do you make sure that God’s in the mandate? You make sure he’s in the messenger. How do you make sure God’s in the message and you make sure the gospel is in the messenger. Yeah,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:11):
That’s powerful. So what’s going to come in years, two and three.

Ben Jack (10:15):
Is a reflection on the challenges and the fruit of the evangelist. So it flip-flops each month. So one month you’re looking at a challenge that there is for us as evangelism, whether it’s, you know, persecution or, or focus or something like distraction, you know, whatever. And then, and then on the other month, you’ll be looking at a fruit. So what is the fruit that comes the fruit that comes out of you personally, the fruit that comes from your effort, the fruit of relationship with Jesus. And obviously looking at honing that in a little bit on the fruit of the spirit that we read about in Galatians. And it’s kind of like trying to look at the reality that often our walk with Jesus evangelism or otherwise is, is the rough and the smooth, not the Jesus is rough. His burden is light and his yoke is easy, but outworking our faith in this fallen world, that’s, that’s rough, that’s difficult.

Ben Jack (11:01):
And so what we wanted to do in the second year was having established character and who God’s calling us to be, what does that now look like? Well, sometimes it looks very hard. These are the challenges let’s think about those. And sometimes it looks incredibly fruitful. This is what that fruit can look like. And then the third year is actually where we really open it up for more of a bespoke approach for the groups. And instead of providing pre-written sessions to cover the whole year, we provide a whole wealth of different ways that you can approach it. So that by the third year, you know, your group better than we do, you know, their different needs, you know, where everybody’s at, you can take the suite of different ways of thinking about it that we offer and potentially create your own sessions month in, month out to specifically meet needs of your and developing groups.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:49):
So if someone is interested in getting involved in a group or, or starting an advanced group, and they have a passion for evangelism, they know some other people that, that have a calling from God to be an evangelist, how would they go about getting started having one of these advanced groups?

Ben Jack (12:07):
Well, what I would say is, first of all, if you are an evangelist, then, then this absolutely could be really helpful and beneficial. You know, we, we’ve been blessed to impact and work with a variety of different types of Angeles from all over the world and hearing their feedback and of how they use it. And there’s, there’s enough flexibility within how to use the sessions. There’s a level of prescription, but there’s also a level of look, make it your own, make it work for you. We don’t ultimately care if you follow the material. We, we just want you to be helped and to develop that by God’s grace and power in fellowship with one another. So use it to that extent. And, and we seeing real fruitfulness of it, but we’re also seeing more and more men and women who don’t necessarily believe they have the calling the office of the evangelist on their life, but they certainly want to do the work of you and you think they want to be a faithful witness into the world.

Ben Jack (12:53):
And so we actually have a number of people now engaging who wouldn’t say that they’re primarily evangelists, but they do have a passion for advantages. So look, whether you’re an evangelist, whether you just want to be faithful to the witness that God has called you to, you can get connected@advancedgroups.org. And there’s a, the website is available in English, Spanish, Portuguese. There’s also various sub sites for a few different countries. But even if there isn’t a sub-site in your country, just get in touch with us here in the UK, we’ll help you to get started, add, Hey, maybe we could even get a, a new sub site set up in your nation, get a translation of the material we’ve got about 14 translations of the guide currently available. The new guide we’ll be launching in March, which we’re excited about, but there’s everything you need to get started is right there@advancedgroups.org.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:37):
What are some of the languages that are available?

Ben Jack (13:40):
So we’ve got English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, French Arabic Swahili. What else have we got? We’ve got we got a couple South African languages in there. I think Amharic is, is Ethiopia is on the way if it’s not up already. So yeah, various languages, they’re all, they’re all for free. The whole thing’s free by the way as well. It doesn’t cost a penny. You just go and download it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:10):
Wow. What a tremendous resource for evangelists? I think this really answers a big need in the body of Christ for evangelists. Just the, there, there, there is a need among evangelists to, to be together, to work together, to encourage one another. Sometimes other parts of the body don’t always celebrate the evangelist the way that evangelists would like to be celebrated. You know, sometimes I’ll go on a missions trip to another country and lots of people get saved and, and God will do amazing things. I’ll come back. And the number one question I always get is, you know, what kind of food did you eat? I was like, you know, I want to talk about all the people that Jesus saved, you know but evangelists get excited hearing about all the people that were, were saved. And so just being around other evangelists encourages me and helps me to, to be in a better evangelist and to keep the fire in my own heart. And so if you’re listening, I’d encourage you to, to go in and get a copy of the advance group mentoring guide download it, it’s free and start a group of evangelists or start a group of people who have a heart for evangelism. And let’s encourage evangelism in the body of Christ brother. Ben, do you have a one final thought about what Jesus is doing in the world today?

Ben Jack (15:35):
Just to encourage people and say, yeah, just encourage people to say that the, you know, we’re in some very strange days at the moment with, with COVID and all the other challenges that are associated with it. And we have plenty of challenges even before COVID came along. So this world is a complicated and strange place. And yet day by day, God is continuously revealing his glory. And I have seen more opportunity for gospel proclamation and engagement with my neighbors, with those closest to me with strangers than at any other point in my 20 year evangelism journey and my 38 year life journey. This is a moment where people are open. They’re thinking through their foundations. They are scared, they’re concerned. We in no way seek to come in and exploits the chaos. What we seek to do is come in and exalt the one who can bring peace to the chaos and through you right now, any way, shape or form feeling a bit deflated or defeated. Let me encourage you brother or sister. God wants to work in your life powerfully and he will do wonderful things. If you will simply say, here I am, Lord, I’m available. I’m willing and he can take care of the rest.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:41):
That’s awesome. Well, Ben, thank you so much for joining me on the evangelism podcast. I love what you’re doing and I believe it will result in many people getting saved around the world. God bless you.

Ben Jack (16:54):
Bless you, Daniel, take care. Thank you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:56):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today, I’m Daniel King and I’m always excited about telling people about Jesus and I’m also excited about helping other evangelists. And so if there’s something I can do for you go to my website, King ministries.com and get in touch with me. And also while you’re at it, could you leave me a review on iTunes go and your five star review will help other evangelists to find this program because we want to help everyone

Evangelism Podcast Host (17:28):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Kevin & Leslie McNulty have a plan to bring revival to America. Their ministry has raised up over one hundred tent evangelists that are doing outreaches across Europe and Asia. Now they want to build 50 tents and raise up 50 evangelism teams in order to reach all 50 United States.

In 1998, Kevin and Leslie McNulty, together with the partners of Christian Adventures International, launched the Tent100 Project in Belarus with just five evangelists and one tent. Today, with 100 tents, dozens of teams and two tent-making workshops, a movement of Eurasian evangelists that began throughout the former Soviet nations and grew to include Europe has now embarked on yet another strategic mission for Christ – TentNationUSA. In the year 2000, Dr. TL Osborn along with Christian Adventures initiated a vision of reaching 10 Francophone countries of Africa with the inspired purpose of sending African missionaries to Europe.

For the last 32 years in over 65 nations they have conducted evangelistic meetings with tremendous Kingdom results. Since 1998, they conducted BIG TENT EVENTS across Eurasia in Kyrgyzstan, Bashkortostan, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Armenia, Georgia, Latvia, Russia and many other locations. During over 20 years with over 120 tents, well over 1,000 events have been conducted through various outreach teams connected with the Tent100 Project—Tent Nation! Today, that vision is coming to America!

Questions I Ask Kevin & Leslie McNulty 

Tell me the story about how T.L. Osborn came to Russia.

Tell me about the beginning of your vision to have a tent in Russia.

What have been the results of the 100 Tent vision for Eurasia?

What is God telling you to do here in America with the 50 tent vision?

Website: https://www.tentnation.com/

https://mcnultyministries.com/ 

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Kevin and Leslie McNulty have a plan to bring revival to America. Their ministry has raised up over 110 evangelists that are doing outreaches across Europe and Asia. Now they want to build 50 tents and raise up 50 evangelism teams in order to reach all 50 United States.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:23):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:00):
Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have very special guests with me, doctors, Kevin and Leslie McNulty, who are great evangelists and have done evangelism in many, many different parts around the world. Thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

Kevin McNulty (01:20):
Thank you. Thank you, Daniel. We’re very happy to be here and it’s wonderful to reconnect after a lot of years. Now,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:26):
I remember when I first met you, it was at a T.L. Osborn crusade in the nation of Costa Rica. I had wanted to meet TL Osborn for such a long time because I knew that God had called me to be an evangelist. And I grew up looking at T.L. Osborn’s books, looking at all the pictures of the crusade s, which Dr. Osborne had done and in many different parts of the world. And at that time, I was going to Bible school here in Tulsa, Oklahoma at a victory Bible Institute. And it was in T.L. Osborn’s building. He had actually given his building to victory. And so every day I walked by his office and I would talk to his secretary and say, please, could I set up a time to meet with Dr. Osborn? And every day she said, I’m sorry, Dr. Osborn is so busy. He’s traveling all the time.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:20):
We cannot. And I bugged her for like six months, every single day, asking for an appointment and was never able to get an appointment. But finally I heard about Kevin and Leslie McNulty who were arranging crusades. And I knew somebody who knew you. And I think I called you and said, could I come to the next event in Costa Rica? And so I went down there and attended the crusade. And I remember T.L. Osborn was so gracious with his time talking to me, explaining his entire system of doing crusades and how they organized crusades. And I’ve taken that applied that, and now we’ve done over a hundred different crusades in different parts of the world, but do you guys have organized so many great events for him to tell me some of the different places that you went with? T.L. Osborn?

Kevin McNulty (03:12):
Well, I w well, actually I think that well, yeah. Well, it started simple started in Russia and that’s he called us in when we were in Russia. And then I went back to America to meet with him. And we talked about going to the nations. This is what he wanted to do. His wife had just died and he just wanted someone to go with to the nations. And it really helped us because we were learning how to do important meetings around the world with him. And, but it started right there in Russia. And that’s where we learned a lot.

Leslie McNulty (03:58):
So I think you know, Dr. TL, after Daisy had passed Gilbert Lindsey actually headed, requested that he print his books in Russia. So what really happened was we were working in Russia and Gilbert, Dr. Taylor had told Gilbert, we are not, I will not print books in Russia until you can prove that you have a route for distribution. And so that’s how the phone call came into us, that we had done enough work across Eurasia. That us in combination with Calvary had the connections. And Kevin’s right. That was the door opener. We began with 76 meetings, organizing them with T.L. Osborn across the ex Soviet territories. From there, we went into Poland from Poland. We went down into Africa as seven nations of French Africa. We were in Bangkok or Thailand in Khan, kin and Japan and France and Latin America. So 25 nations in all, we organized together with him. And we actually preached with him during those times.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:04):
What a tremendous privilege. Tell me a little bit about how the vision to start planting tents in Russia got started, because now you, you have raised up evangelistic teams across Russia, your Asia and other parts of the world preaching in gospel tents. But how did that come from the vision from that time that you are with T.L. Osborn?

Leslie McNulty (05:35):
Well, during those 76 meetings, and by the way, for those who are listening today, the influence of T.L. Osborn not only in our lives, but the nations and his, his simple approach to the gospel, his simple understanding of miracles, the way in which he was able to connect in the is something that Kevin and I, as missionaries understood that the gospel must be simple. It must be simple. And so as he came into our lives, we went, wow, where’d you were just like that. You know, that’s what we do, that’s who we are. And so I’m grateful for your podcast because you’re pulling together wisdom information that will help other evangelists. We all help each other. And it’s so important that the tent ministry, I got to answer that question. May I finish that question?

Leslie McNulty (06:32):
So when T.L. Osborn came to Russia, he began preaching that, you know, you should get a light bulb, a tent, and a wooden platform. It’s cold, it’s bleak. You know, that he always said, it’s cold. I’m not coming back. It’s bleak. You need protection from the weather. And he was telling the pastors, you ought to buy a tent. Well, we ended up finally, we said, T.L. Osborn, we said, we have a desire to buy a tent when we got some alone time with him. And he looked at us and we were so excited, you know, T.L. Osborn, you have been breaching to the whole nation “Buy a tent.” And we have that in our hearts. And he looked at us and he said, that’s not God. And you sit there like you, you’re thinking you’ve told the whole nation by a tent. And so, but, but he followed with a question upon that statement.

Leslie McNulty (07:25):
How many territories, how many regions are States? Oh, blast are there in the ex Soviet territories. We knew there were a little over a hundred. And so with our lightening quick minds, we didn’t pray about it. We didn’t run into another room. We understood the challenge of God that was being floated our direction. And he said, we said, there’s a little over a hundred. And I think probably in unison, we, we said, looks like we need 100 tents, the word. And then his response to us was now that’s an idea big enough for God to get involved with.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:04):
So one tent was not enough. You needed over a hundred tents. And that is a very difficult assignment to receive from God. That’s not an easy assignment. One tent, you can have faith for that, but a hundred. So tell me what has happened since that moment.

Kevin McNulty (08:22):
Well, we started a factory in the basement of the, the facility where we lived and in Russia, and that’s where the first tents were made. There were, of course the basement kind of restricted how big they could be, but that’s where we all started. And those tents still could hold a hundred,

Leslie McNulty (08:42):
350 350 accurate and details. Daniel, we have over a hundred tents now.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:52):
So now you have planted over hundred tents in the former Soviet union in Russia, in your Asia name, some of those countries,

Leslie McNulty (09:04):
Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Germany, Bulgaria, Albania kurgastan Kazakhstan. There are others

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:17):
Just the last year I was in Mongolia in the ancient capital of Gangas Kahn. And we were teaming up with some of the local pastors to do a crusade there. And they said, we have a tent. And I said, good, let’s use the tent in Mongolia. And so we set up the tent right on the land that all of the horsemen of Gangas Kahn used to ride around on that was their training ground. And that was where the tent was set. And I asked, where did you get this tent? And they said, Oh, it came from Russia. There was this ministry, the McNulty’s that had given tents. I said, the McNulty’s that this is one of the McNulty tent, beautiful canvas, white and yellow. And it attracted the people from the town. We were on the outskirts of town. So people walk because they were so curious and excited to see what was in that tent. And the other cool thing is they had a little tent for the children’s ministry, with a big tent for the adult ministry. They had clowns in the kid’s ministry tent, all the ministry that they were doing. I was looking at it and I said, Oh, that is an idea. I know that came from Kevin and Leslie, that way they have done a good job educating themselves,

Kevin McNulty (10:33):
Whole stream of countries, right at that bottom. I know what you’re talking about. And yeah, they all, we said, let’s put a tent in every one of them. And it was wonderful.

Leslie McNulty (10:42):
So the pastor there Yohanas is the key that got that tent into Mongolia for us. And where’s Yohanas from Yohanis is from Estonia. Wow. And so Yohanis his vision, his, his family’s from the underground church. So Yohanas literally took a bus all the way from the Baltics across Russia, down into the far East and into that region to deliver that tent, to those people.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:06):
It’s a long bus, route, 11 time zones.

Kevin McNulty (11:11):
He has faith. I tell you that was amazing to go that far, what? That truck, you know, bus. Yeah.

Leslie McNulty (11:17):
And so really he is the one that sought that pastor out and found that individual. But that is the model at Yohanas carried that model, that vision of the multiple tents and the, and we trained some of those people. They’d been in Moscow in the meetings over different times.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:31):
And so not only are you putting tents into these areas, but you are also training evangelists, you’re coaching evangelists. So, so talk to me a little bit about that, Mr. Kevin, because you know, a lot of people see the glamor of being an evangelist. They want to be on the platform, but how do you identify and find who truly have an evangelistic calling?

Kevin McNulty (11:56):
Well, the calling of Christian should all be the same. And that is Christ came in you, and it wasn’t difficult. You had to open up your heart and he would come in and we have opened up the hearts of a lot of people. Jesus come into a lot of people and it’s just then they get that excitement about Jesus changed me now. I want to change somebody else. So that, that’s the thing that started. We started preaching just simply about Jesus coming in to give you salvation and to give you a purpose in life. And that was the early beginnings. And then of course, the, to confirm that you have to have miracles and that’s what we had.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:41):
So, so, so I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m really interested in, in the process of training the evangelists, because if you were in Russia and you started announcing that you’re going to give tents to evangelists. And of course that attracts lots of people. Everyone says, Oh, I want a tent, but how do you then take those people who, who think that they want to have a tent and do evangelism? How do you begin to train?

Leslie McNulty (13:08):
So we have about we have essentially we have a three-pronged strategy on that. Of course we, we invite people to join us. They get knowledge of the vision. So we vet them, you know, what is your experience, your resume. We often look for those who already have a little bit of ministry experience in education so that we can place them with tools. And those tools are quite, quite expensive. So you want to place them properly. Second, we do some classroom training. We have a requirement that they come to the annual training conferences. And when we have a tent in their region, we require that they’re a part of that. So then the second part is the classroom training and the boot camp, the boot camp is on the job training, and that’s where they have to show up in the tent. And they’re going to learn how to set it up. Like you said, I heard you say just yesterday, you know, I was the labor for setting up the tent. I think he used the word.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:01):
My mom and dad were missionaries in Mexico. And so we have a tent that we use in Mexico. It’s a, in the United States, it would see about 800, but in Mexico, it seats about 2000. And so we would set up that tent and tear it down and set it up. And I was the labor putting the stakes in the ground from, from like when I was 10 years old, I was already working to set up that tent. And it’s a lot of work doing tent ministry. Now, yesterday, I heard you tell the story about how these evangelists, that you would gather together. They would come in their suit. They would come with their polished shoes with their Bible, and then you would start to put them to work. Yes. Tell me about that.

Kevin McNulty (14:48):
Well, we we started to give them some, the bill, we had to build something in that place. And we had to dig the holes and I said, well, the first thing we do is we have to dig. And so everybody got a, I went to the store, whatever I got, went to the store and got a bunch of shovels that says, let’s start. And that’s how we built something there, right there. Yeah.

Leslie McNulty (15:10):
But your real mission was to convince those men will say that because

Kevin McNulty (15:15):
Yeah, I w I wanted to convince them not to be evangelists.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:19):
They’d show up in a suit and a tie, holding a Bible with, with shined shoes. And you put them to work with a shovel because you were trying to convince them not to be an evangelist. Why were you trying to convince them not to be an evangelist?

Kevin McNulty (15:32):
Because the challenge of being an evangelists, you have, there are things that you’re going to have enemies. You’re going to have other even horses. Of course, there are other, other people that will not want you to be doing what you’re doing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:48):
So you figured that if you could get them to stop being an evangelist, surely the devil would be able to stop them from being an evangelist. But if they went through a month of training, setting up tents, going out, inviting people, doing the work of an evangelist that after all that training and actually hands on that, if you couldn’t convince them to stop being an evangelist, surely the devil would not be able to stop them either. Yeah.

Leslie McNulty (16:16):
You have quoted Kevin identi. That’s exactly what he always said. And you know, every 21 days in an area, and then this is a concept. T.L. Osborn was very clear about evangelists, like to pop in for two or three days and leave. And you, he said, you can see the real transformation of a community if you can root in there for a period of time. And so 21 days, these guys were required to show up to be there. And every morning we would critique everything that happened the day before from the poles were tightened on the tent. The things happened with the bleachers. What transpired at the alter? Why did it transpire that way? We critique every part of the ministry and allow them to ask questions within that context was very, very powerful.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:59):
And so you’re even analyzing the message, how the alter call is, how people are responding in training them, letting them think and say, why does this work? Why does this not work? And so you’re doing more than just giving them a tent. You’re, you’re providing the training to be effective in that type of ministry. Right.

Kevin McNulty (17:19):
That’s absolutely right. You have to know a lot of things because you’re talking to strangers and you could have enemies coming to the tent, which they did have. And you just say, you know, you’ve got to be bigger than the enemies. You’ve got to believe in God to protect yourself.

Leslie McNulty (17:33):
You know, one evangelist we were in, or I was in central Euro mountain region of Russia. And he was one of the most gifted of the preachers. And he had, Kevin was in another part training. And I went to that area with the team and we were being, we had the Russian Orthodox, they had the big bells in the truck and they’re ringing it. They’re carrying the big picket signs walking around the tent, saying the foreign devil is here. And so I had a team with us. And so as I came into the tent, I was talking to the team, which preachers know don’t do that. As I walked up onto the platform, noise bells, noise in the tent noise, outside of the tent. And I stopped. And I said, I looked at my friends and I said, excuse me, I’m about to be the person of the evangelist. And I just turned and I looked out of the crowd and I said, here, listen, I am sent by God. And just this big booming voice, come into the tent, sit down. I have a message from God, et cetera, et cetera. And the tent filled up, the noise stopped the Orthodox, left that evangelist. Cause it was his meeting, but he walked out of that meeting and he said, I’ve now seen a real evangelists.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:47):
I think some of those things are, are more caught than taught. You can teach someone that and say, you need to be from, or, but to actually see someone operate under the anointing of an evangelist. And so much of evangelism is work. Yes. Yes. Paul told Timothy do the work of an evangelist. And I think a lot of people see what happens on the platform and wow, that’s amazing all the people get saved, but really that’s the tip of the iceberg. There’s so much strategic thinking and organization and work that goes in underneath the surface in order to make an evangelistic event happen.

Kevin McNulty (19:27):
I think we, I think we have a hundred pages of of all the detail that goes in because you are a stranger in a strange country with strange people about to hear you. And you’re going to have something happen in that place that no one has seen miracles instantly. And they’re going to say, you know, it’s going to be so different for the people. And you know what though, everybody eventually, because we don’t run, we don’t run in and run out. Was it about 21 days that we stay in the inner city? And so, because we want to build the people and build the next generation that’s going to be in there.

Leslie McNulty (20:02):
So Daniel also to your point in Kevin mentioned, we have, we created a 150 page manual. So to your point in there, we teach them, how do you get your permits? What kind of permits do you need? How do you persistently go after the permits? What’s the wisdom, the way to do these things. And that manual came out of training. A bunch of Russians who had absolutely no idea how to do evangelism. And it was a meeting after every meeting and using the whiteboard, laying out all the things and developing this manual that we could make available to all of the teams.

Kevin McNulty (20:34):
Hmm. We, we created the, the Russian movement because they’ve now learned and now they’re doing it over, right?

Leslie McNulty (20:40):
Wait, we say, you know, like T.L. Osborn used to say, y’all take all of my sermons and you just preach them better than I ever did. And we listened to our evangelists and we’re like, wow, they’re really good preachers.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:53):
What a, what a tremendous blessing. So it’s really amazing what God has done through you. You went from the vision for, for one tent in Russia and T.L. Osborn said, no, that is too small of a vision to then doing a hundred tents in. And now you have completed that goal. There are more than a hundred tents and a hunt more than a hundred evangelists are using those tents, preaching the gospel across that entire region of the world. And now God has, has spoken to you a word about America and you are, you are starting tent nation here in the United States. Tell me, what has God put on your heart for this nation?

Kevin McNulty (21:36):
Well, this is the greatest nation I believe in the world. And it’s great to have a place here that we can call home. And we just felt that, you know what, there’s 50 States in America. Let’s do a tent for every state. Now I tell you the truth that when that tank goes up, you’re going to find probably at least five more, 10 set are going to go up in that state. But we’ve got to put first, let’s get all every one of them all 50 to go up.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:06):
So now you’re, you’ve taken that same vision that you had for Russia doing tents and raising up tent evangelists in Russia. And you’re going to bring that back here to the United States and raise up evangelists who will preach intense. And often tent ministry is not seen these days in America. It was very popular back in the forties and fifties, you had great evangelists like Oral Roberts and an AA Allen and other great evangelists who would preach underneath the tent. But now people don’t do that so much. So, so do you think tent ministry can be effective one more time here in America?

Kevin McNulty (22:48):
Absolutely. There there’s a generation that has never even been in a tent. And so this is going to be exciting to them to go into this place and listen about 10 minutes tree. You go to church. When you sit down, you really can’t get up from that seat. In during the meeting, you know, you go into a tent and you sit down the tents to give you that freedom that you can get up and go out. It gives you that, that space where you can move. And a lot of people liked the hat. They said, well, if I don’t want to stay, I don’t want to say, you know,

Leslie McNulty (23:19):
And it’s not your granddaddy’s style, a tent ministry. What we, we make mistakes in the body of Christ. And that we look so much at history. And we think that what we’ve seen in history is what we will see happening today. And so as we have polled young people, we were in a hotel in North Carolina and we were sharing the vision there. And we just pulled this group of young people standing outside. Non-Christian if we put up a tent out here and we were doing these things, would you come? And they said, well, absolutely. We’ve never seen a tent and we’ve never seen anything like that. We would be very curious, when are you going to do it? That’s the new generation that’s in the USA. This is, this was the moment.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:57):
So you want to at least start with 50 tents for 50 States and raising up 50 evangelists here in America. Talk to me about your training program and the tools that you will put in the evangelists hands in order to prepare for this type of ministry.

Leslie McNulty (24:16):
Do you want me to do that? So we we’ve created the I move training program, motivation opportunity, vision and empowerment. So we’ve created an online platform for that. So there’ll be a certain amount of courses that are actually online that will, we want them to come in, take the online courses from there. We’re going to be holding on-site trainings. We’re anticipating doing one here in Tulsa, various in the very near future. And then from that onsite training, we’ll go right into that. On the job training with the actual tents, our goal is to identify the first 10 evangelist, the first one that we want to trust a kit to it may end up here in the greater Oklahoma area. And then 10 other kits that we want to release. The tent kits. Speaking to the tools will be a tent, a trailer, and the equipment to initiate.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:10):
So everything that’s needed to do a tanker. So it’s not just the tent. You have the chairs, a little platform, the sound system, microphones, a trailer to put it all in. So someone who has an evangelistic cart could take one of these tent kits and they could go to small town, America. They could go somewhere in Oklahoma, they could do a, a tent crusade. They’re set up for a week, two weeks, do a tent crusade, then move to another place. Do a, another tent crusade. I know here in Tulsa, we have a bunch of, of low-income housing projects that would be perfect for going and doing a tech crusade. And if you set up the tent, people will come. They will say, what is this? They will, and they will fill the tent. You could easily put two or 300 people in a tent minister to them. And everyone is attracted because of the big, beautiful tent. And you start playing music. They will, will want to come. And then you also want to do several different sizes of tent. So, so tell me like the different sizes of what you’re hoping to do.

Leslie McNulty (26:17):
Well, we, we have the smaller tip, which we would probably seet about three 50, 300 to three 50. I think it’s about a 60 foot, 61 foot round. Then we have the 77 foot round. I believe legally it’s seven to 800 people. Now we’ve often seen him packed with 1200 overseas that we understand that. And then we’re going to have a couple of larger packages that would be more based on the a hundred foot round. And that’s going to be for the more seasoned well-developed evangelists.

Kevin McNulty (26:46):
And we’re in a situation right now where I was listening on TV and over a hundred thousand people are now crossing the border and they’re doing it because the new president wants some to come. And so youth are figuring there’s going to be a lot of empty souls that are going to be crossing that border. And so this tent ministry could be timed perfectly for the next generation that’s coming in.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:09):
I just got a call a couple of days ago from a pastor in Georgia. And he was telling me that, that because of COVID restrictions there, they’re not allowing some of the churches to be open, but he said, if we could have a tent, it would be outdoors. And it would be covered at the same time. And so he says, we need to have a tent. And so this is the right time to do tents.

Leslie McNulty (27:33):
It is the right time. Thank you. Thank you for that confirmation.

Kevin McNulty (27:38):
I wouldn’t say that the tents would be the, in this generation because we’ve known about tenths past generations, like you said, the forties and the fifties, but we are in a new time and we’ve got new people in this country. We may not know it. We may not in our neighborhood. And maybe now there’s no new people, but they are flooding America,

Leslie McNulty (27:57):
Daniel. You said something very good. And the fact that yellow and we chose yellow and white, because there’s such bright colors. I know they’re blue and white, red and white, but that yellow and white reflects sun in such a happy, positive, glowing way. And so it is you put that up in a lower income area, or even you put it out on a piece of land people, just, what, what is that? Why is that there? And if it’s not at a car dealership or because we always see tents, all of us at car dealerships, but when it standing out alone, somewhere else and in Russia was always is at the circus. And the circus has gone in America. We understand that, but there’s still, there’s still rumors of it. It still rumbles around because that was a part of our classic culture. Well, some may think that Christianity is bringing you the circus to town, but we know that in those circuits tents, there was life. There was creativity. There was beauty, there was experience. And they’re going to find that with God in these big, bright, yellow, and white tents,

Kevin McNulty (29:00):
Amen. And you’re going to find out that people who are singers, that they’re going to find their place in those tenths and talents in a lot of different ways are going to be D being, developing their talent in those tents. And that is going to be the future

Leslie McNulty (29:13):
And teams are so important. We must help their young event. We must help evangelist develop teams. You know, ministry is teamwork. And so we would not be able to do today. What we do had we not had a very, we traveled with 16 people on the road for our large tent. That meant we had to feed them. We had to house them. We had to cover all of their expenses and they came by faith. We didn’t pay them this huge salary. So it was when we up that tent, you know, what were we a cafe operated? Why did a cafe operate? Because it was selling and making money. And we hung boxes on the poles. I woke up one night because you don’t get to take offerings all the time. So we hung boxes on the poles and somebody is like, you’re good. Just going to put a box on a pole.

Leslie McNulty (29:58):
I said, put a padlock on it, put on it donation because everyone would always say, you just did this for us because you wanted to bless us. And we’d say yes. And on those opening nights, as they were coming into those glorious music, kind of like up with people, music programs, and then miracles, we called them festival of music and miracles. And they’d be walking out of there putting their money in those boxes. And then those would cover the expense that would cover expenses of our team onsite. So there are many little nuances that there’s practical ideas that maybe we’ve all had. But when you put the stream, you streamline all those ideas together. You’re able to make that ministry cover itself and pay for itself.

Kevin McNulty (30:43):
People don’t know that Jesus is not just a church and that he loves everybody, everybody and is willing to heal. Everybody willing to, to bless everybody with the finances or with the ideas that would create a future for them. He wants everybody to be, God loves people. And so we have to be the people to reach out to all those people that don’t know what to do, and they can find out.

Leslie McNulty (31:12):
You said, Paul told Timothy to do the work of the evangelist, but isn’t part of the five fold ministry, the responsibility of the evangelists to be both a revivalist and to be an evangelist. The revivalist works within the community of the church. The evangelist works outside the church. And when Jesus walked into Kevin’s dorm room and called him into the ministry, he didn’t understand what it was. He said two things to him. He asked him, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? And Kevin, as he’s reacting to Jesus just walks through the wall, the door, and he’s standing in front of me and asking me, what am I going to do with the rest of my life, Kevin, as he says, I’m going to, he starts to say, well, I’ve got seven job opportunities, head, state, head coach, this head coach of that. And he heard himself say, I’m going to gather and collect.

Kevin McNulty (32:05):
Yeah, he’s in pump on old hearts. And I’m like, who said that? But that was what he had put in me to gather and collect dead bodies and pump on old hearts. And so I said, well, I’ve never thought, never thought that thought. And it’s interesting because I’m a tennis pro and it was making, I had opportunity in met the major places in America. Major schools wanted me to be the coach. And I said, you know, there’s something else I have to do. And I can’t explain it to the guys who wanted to hire me. But I understood by what just, I just started to walk across America, preaching the gospel to find out how is it that I should be preaching. And I didn’t want to just go to a school to learn how to preach out, to know they could preach it. So

Leslie McNulty (32:54):
He was raised Catholic. So this was in a completely different entrance into his world. So Kevin, really, your ministry grew very organically. You went to Spain and started in a tent, but I wanted to draw a point if I may back to revivalism and evangelism, that commission, that call as evangelist, and we teach the evangelists. This, you don’t take revivalism to the tent. You take revivalism to the church. You take evangelism to the tent and the gospel. And in many Western cultures, we don’t always know how to separate the divide, the two. And we don’t know how to operate in the two. And so we find young evangelist, or we find ministers trying to take revivalism to attend out on the corners of the street. And it’s not successful. You have to learn how to take evangelism out in the streets, in the tents. And both roles are very vital. So if we can mobilize the gifts of the evangelist in those two arenas, I believe we truly can change America. Amen.

Kevin McNulty (33:57):
No Americans, they get so comfortable being an American. I everyday I walk, I walk in this place here where we are, I’ll see somebody or I’ll be, you know, next to somebody going somewhere and I’ll start talking to them and seeing, how are you expound you spiritually? Are you, what’s your condition with, with your future? Are you going to have it? No, I don’t know. I said, well, let me, let me help you. And so this is America. These are people that look beautiful and all that, but you know what, in your heart, they’re empty and they’re afraid. And so we as Americans, we really have to consider. What about the other Americans after all life is about the future, not just about the present. And we have to consider that the people around us, if we don’t know it, they don’t know it. And that they’ve never even spoken once about they speak, they speak about religion, but they don’t speak about the impact of Christ on their life. They get the people need and they can know Jesus inside of them. But it’s going to take somebody to put, put that message in front of them. And that’s what the evangelist

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:07):
Amen. Well, if someone feels called to be an evangelist and they say, I want to go and preach in a tent, how can they get in contact with you to receive more training? And even to find out how they can get their own tent to preach the gospel, what’s your website. What’s a way for people to get in touch with you.

Leslie McNulty (35:31):
They can go to tent, nation.com and right there, and tent nation.com. There’s just little form. They can sign up, put their name in there and it’ll go right in is give us your contact information and we will get in touch with you and let you know what’s happening. Let you know that the next event coming up, we’re doing something out here in Tulsa. On April the 16th, we will be having a banquet. We’re looking to invite some young evangelists to that banquet here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And we’re also looking to do an initial training at that time. So they have interests go to tent nation.com. They may also call our office at one eight seven seven tent, T E N T one zero.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:14):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your vision. This is God’s time for America. We need to see a move of God here in America. And I’m so appreciate both of you for the seeds that you planted into my life. Just inspiring me, training me giving me instruction and just watching and being inspired by you. It’s it’s really been significant in my life. So thank you.

Leslie McNulty (36:40):
Thank you, Daniel. And we are so glad to really reconnect with you and then wow. What you’ve done and your wife and your family.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:48):
Thank you. I hope I hope everybody buys your books. Thank you, God bless you. God bless you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:58):
Thanks so much for listening today. If you’re interested in coaching in evangelism, visit my website, King ministries.com. And could you do me a favor, go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King and leave us a review. Your review will help other people who are interested in evangelism to find this show. God bless you for more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministry.com.

Favorite Quotes of Justin Bell 

“You can do three things with your life: Spend it, Waste it, or Seed it”

“The Greatness of your power is in the measure of your surrender.”

“People won’t remember how you died, but how you Lived.”

“A faith that’s not tested is a faith that can’t be trusted.”

“You are only as big as your Prayer Life”

“The Evidence of your belief is in the way you act.”

“You cant lead anybody where you have not been yourself.”

“Jesus died for People not Ministries and Churches.”

“Life doesn’t belong to you but to him who died for it, so give him what he paid for.”

“A woman’s heart should be so close to God that a man should seek him to find her.”

7 Things Evangelism is NOT

What Evangelism is: 

Evangelism is the communication of the gospel message, which includes a warning,
an explanation, and a call.

Evangelism includes warning people about sin and the consequences of sin
(John 16:8; Acts 24:25; Revelation 20:11-15)

It includes an explanation of God’s remedy for sin- the Gospel
(Acts 8:29-35; Romans 3:21-26; 2 Corinthians 5:21)

It includes the clear call to repent (to turn from sin and to turn toward God) and believe the gospel, by faith
(Mark 1:15; Luke 13:1-5; Acts 17:2931; Romans 1:17; Romans 10:9-13).

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
I met Justin Bell in South Africa. When he was a student at Christ for the nations in Dallas, Texas. Now he travels around the world looking for opportunities to evangelize today. We’re going to talk about his list of seven things. Evangelism is not.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:18):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the event.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:56):
So listen podcast, I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest, Justin Bell. He is a missionary evangelist. He has traveled to many countries. Justin, thank you so much for joining me today.

Justin Bell (01:15):
Thank you, Daniel. It’s a pleasure to be on your show. God is good.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:18):
So you and I first met in the country of South Africa. We were there at the invitation of pastors, Billy and Maryanne Allen. They were the pastors of Christ for the nations church and in Dallas, Texas, and they are good friends of mine. And they were doing a crusade with the Zulu people of South Africa. You remember that crusade?

Justin Bell (01:44):
Oh man. Yes. I had a very good time. I’m I’m definitely looking forward to going back to South Africa.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:49):
W what do, what do you remember about the Zulu people?

Justin Bell (01:53):
Oh, man, very interesting. I learned about the King at the time. He had maybe six wives and, you know, they could only come to his palace when they were invited and you know, it was a lot of good highlights as well. The crusade was amazing, of course we saw people get healed and for me, the highlight was eating Impala, kebab. When we did the Sofar, that that was my first time eating Impala. And it was amazing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:22):
The thing I remember was that we, we fed a lot of the people at the crusade. So in the morning they led two cows into the camp where we’re doing their crusade and they started cooking. And by about two o’clock in the afternoon, all the food was ready and everyone ate it. And there was not a single piece of that cow left from head to toe from the nose to the tail, every single part of the, both those cows were consumed. And that was a, that was a crusade. So you went to Christ for The Nations, and then you also went to the the Assembly of God’s school there in the Dallas area. And then you’ve been traveling to different nations. Tell me what you’ve been doing in the nations.

Justin Bell (03:21):
Yeah, absolutely. Graduated Christ for the Nations, went to the SAGU got a degree there and

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:28):
SAGU is Southwestern assemblies of God university, right?

Justin Bell (03:31):
Yeah. Southwestern Assembly of God university. And when I left there well actually crunched some nations, actually birth, just the desire to go to the nations, you know, and to preach the gospel and to see societal transformation through the gospel of Jesus Christ in the hearts of men. And so never really been exposed, but that school just kind of put the seed in my heart and then graduated Saigu then moved to South Korea and lived in Korea for four years. I went there and was an English teacher and then begin to learn how to do ministry really get your hands dirty, involve peoples get involved in people’s lives. And so that was really where my evangelistic muscle was really stretched because some things in Bible school, they don’t teach you. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:21):
What were some of the things that you learned in South Korea that they didn’t teach you in Bible school?

Justin Bell (04:27):
Oh man. So, you know social media technology is a great way to reach out to people. And so when I first when the church first got started, it was, it was, it was sovereign in decline. And you know, it was over 2,400 in the city. And I said, how am I going to reach these foreigners and, you know, begin to pray. And, you know, I started kind of implementing some things in Bible school. You know, you want to get out into the community, you want to reach people. So I was going to the bars, getting, reaching people, getting getting their names and then went on social media, having like nice flyers, you know, come to my church and we’re starting a new thing. And week one, nobody came week two, nobody came. And so I figured out real quick, unless you have a strategy to go get them. And I started getting on Facebook and I started messaging people personally. And I said, Hey, let’s do coffee. And in that time span, I had five to 10 minutes after taking them out to lunch and dinner and building some kind of relational lines to strike their hearts with the gospel. And that’s what I did. And sure enough, that begin to draw people to come because instead of giving people a track, I had to become the track.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:43):
And since you were in South Korea for four years what kind of food that the South Koreans eat? Did you enjoy eating?

Justin Bell (05:54):
Yeah, so Koreans, they eat a lot of kimchi. Kimchi is a fermented cabbage and they eat it every day. Of course I can eat it every day. You know, it’s a very strong smell. They have Kim bop, which is a rice mixed with carrots and vegetables, and it’s kind of like cutting sushi rolls. Bulgogi is like a, it’s like a sweet beef that they have, which is very delicious. And so they have a lot of vegetable-based cuisine and I really enjoyed it as well, you know, cause a lost some way of course, because they eat a lot of fish and

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:29):
You’re making, you’re making me hungry. All right. So, so where else have you been traveling to

Justin Bell (06:37):
Been to England, been to Italy, been to France, been to Chalanco I’ve been to India. I’ve been to Greece. I’ve been to Finland, been to Amsterdam been to Canada been to South Africa, been to Brazil

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:54):
On the wall behind you. There you have a flag from Brazil. I know you’ve spent a lot of time recently in Brazil. Tell me about the ministry that you’ve been doing in Brazil.

Justin Bell (07:06):
Yeah, so a partner with a friend of mine, I went to school with and he’s actually building a Bible school in the city of Rio de Janeiro. And I go down there and he’s has a project called SOS, Brazil kids. And he basically takes kids from the neighborhood whose parents had been either assassinated or put in prison. And he gathers them and teach them life skills and it uses the Bible to teach them life skills. So he wants to transform his neighborhood. He stays in a poor developed for Vela. And so I go down there and check on the project and then kind of provide oversight of the school to see what resources he needs and in the process of doing that, I preach in local churches that allow me to come in and you know, just trying to bring revival to the city and help people come into the kingdom. So it’s a, I go about two or three times a year and it’s like my second home.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:06):
And as long as we’re talking about food, what kind of food do you like in Brazil? Oh man, let me tell you what my wife likes. She loves going to Brazilian restaurants that bring you meat. Speaking of this, my wife is a carnivore and Jessica, she loves eating Brazilian meat.

Justin Bell (08:28):
Yeah, the Brazilians man, they can eat brother. They they’re very big meat-eaters they have a special meat. That’s called a pecan Kanya, but Kanya is one of their, their traditional famous meats that it’s called an in Portuguese. It’s called up to the ASCO. So it’s Brazilian barbecue. So I always love going that. And so when I go to Brazil and I’m preaching and it’s, you know, to do ministry for two weeks I have to actually fast in the daytime and only eat at night or, you know, I’ll blow up because they eat so much and, and their food is it’s it’s very heavy. So it’s a lot of comfort food and, and so I enjoy it. You know, it’s grateful.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:09):
I was looking at your website, which is greater glory, world ministries.com. If, if somebody wants more information about you or about your, your ministry. And I noticed on there that you have a, a S page talk about your, your school of evangelism and you have several things on there about what evangelism is not, and then what evangelism is. And so I thought that would be an interesting thing to discuss. So let me just name these different things. Often you talk to me a little bit about them. So the first thing that evangelism is not evangelism is not inviting people to church or an evangelistic event. Can you, can you explain that statement?

Justin Bell (09:55):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I’m very passionate, passionate about evangelism and, you know, oftentimes if there’s not any teacher or trainer that really comes in and allows people to understand what true evangelism is from the Bible, people tend to create their own, you know, ideology behind evangelism. And so inviting people to church is good. But in my opinion, it creates a lot of problems because I feel like we should not invite people to church. We should invite people to Jesus. And when we meet people for the first time and we just kind of sling them and say, man, come to church with me on Sunday, their spirit hasn’t been regenerated. They have no context of what’s going on. They sit there and they, and you’re praying and hoping, Oh man, you know, I hope the pastor preaches a good message. And oftentimes it creates boredom within them because they don’t understand, you know, all of the church antiques that happened before the message. And so it does more harm than good. And so when you meet people, give them opportunities, share the gospel, plant the seed, and then once they get saved needle, then bring them to church and allow them to be plugged in. Otherwise it can create a lot of problems and people, you know, they will, they will possibly go to church and not even be, be saved or Christian or converted.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:14):
All right, let me hit you with a second one. It says evangelism is not social work, social justice or political involvement. Talk to me about that.

Justin Bell (11:23):
Yeah. social work, social justice feeding the homeless. It does not prepare souls for eternity and those things are good. Works good, works that should lead unto salvation. The Bible says by loving kindness, he has drawn us. You know, there is a, a bridge or path that’s created when we show the love of Christ and kindness of Christ that opens people’s hearts to receive the message, which is the foundation and the motive behind what we’re doing. So, you know, good deeds compliment the gospel. But they do not replace it. So we can’t replace that with actually the proclamation of the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:04):
Yeah. I think that’s a good point because our generation, a younger generation is really big into doing social work. Everyone wants to dig Wells to get fresh water or feed people. And, and then also social justice is really big in our society right now where, where people are fighting for social justice and those things are important. But the most important thing is bringing people to a saving knowledge of the Lord, Jesus Christ, because you can put food in someone’s stomach, but the next day their stomach is going to be empty again. But when eternity comes, they’re either going to be in heaven or hell. And so that’s something we need to think about. And then on, on social justice issues, I think the, the only thing that really can bring justice to society is people getting in relationship with God or there, because there cannot be forgiveness. There, there cannot be a valuing of other people unless your heart is right before God.

Justin Bell (13:18):
That’s right. Yeah. You know the great Billy ground, he said a very powerful saying, he said, a government is only good as those who govern. And so oftentimes it’s, it’s not so much the system or the person that we need. We need a new president, we need new strategies. We need new, you know, it’s the heart of the individual because essentially they’re going to be the ones occupying the space to create the laws and things. So you’re exactly right. You know, I’m in total agreement.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:46):
This next one is, as evangelism is not personal testimony. Talk to me about that.

Justin Bell (13:52):
Yeah. You know, I’m giving you a personal testimony, just like social justice and feeding the homeless should compliment the gospel. It should, it should be an additive to what the gospel is because, you know, Romans talks about this. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. So the gospel is power. You know, when we preach the gospel in his periods form, the power of God will show up the power of God will manifest and it doesn’t need you know, any help in the gospel in regards to his message. And so we should share how the gospel has been played out in our personal lives. But our personal testimony alone doesn’t have the power to convert. It can be used to draw people to respond to the gospel message. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:42):
I think sometimes the problem, a lot of people have in giving their personal testimony is they spend a lot of time talking about bad. They were, they say, I was, I was stuck on drugs. I was an alcoholic. I abused my wife. I raped three girls, like, hold up, wait a second here. And, and, and then they, they, they, they spend all this time talking about how big a center they were. And then they spend like a minute talking about N Jesus set me free, you know? And it’s like, let’s spend more time talking about all the amazing things that Jesus did rather than what a tremendous hold Satan had on your life. And so you, you, you had to tell people a little bit about where you came from, but let’s spend a lot more time talking to people about what the gospel has actually done in any, in your life. All right. Evangelism is not imposing our will or beliefs on another person. Talk about that.

Justin Bell (15:46):
Yeah. we, we make no apologies to, to creatively persuade people into crimes. The message it’s, it’s a mandate from the Lord. But we cannot force someone to put their faith in Christ and confess Christ as their Lord. And, you know, sometimes when people get out on the streets and they evangelize, or they do, you know personally evangelism where they, you know, walk up to people they can, you know, impose themselves on the person to where it, the person they repel against the message. And because we’re trying to get them to do something. And the Bible talks about all the time, unless the spirit of God draws them they will not be saved. And if we want true conversions we have to let the Holy spirit draw the people that we need to share the gospel with them.

Justin Bell (16:38):
And we need to share it with everyone. But everyone you speak to is not going to be a home run per se. It’s not going to be the one. Maybe you’re just the one to plant the seed. Maybe you’re the one to open their hearts. And maybe you’re the one to actually close the deal where they actually, God has been working on them and they’re ready to receive Christ in that moment. So we have that anticipation in mind, but we can’t always force that on people because some people honestly they’re not ready to come into the kingdom because the spirit of God, you know, it hasn’t drawn them. So, you know, I’ve learned that in, in good ways and bad, when I first started evangelizing, I did that. I was like, come on, man. You, you need to give me life to Jesus right now. You need to give your life to Christ. Jesus is here right now. And when they didn’t give their life to Christ, I was disappointed. And I was like, Lord, you know, am I doing something wrong? But the Holy spirit had to teach me how to work with the Holy spirit and to have wisdom. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:36):
Evangelism is not doing apologetics in order to win an argument

Justin Bell (17:43):
About that. I’m on now. Oh man. So you have some people are, they, they know the scriptures, you know, they, they memorize the Romans road of salvation. They’ve memorized, certainly evangelistic passages. And they’re ready to debate with the Muslim, with the Catholic wit you know, and use it kind of as a strong fist to bring them in the spirit of God may lead you in that direction. But that is not the case every time. I’ve learned I remember when I was doing outreach in in a hospital here in Dallas and me and a friend of mine, we were leading the outreach and we went into this hospital and we were praying for sick people. And we were just kind of being led by the spirit. And we got into the lobby of the hospital and we started communicating with, it was a lot of Spanish speakers and a lot of them were Catholics.

Justin Bell (18:41):
And so my friend was translated. And one of the strategies that I learned when you evangelize the people that may be Catholics or this, you don’t necessarily debate with them, unless the Holy spirit is leading you, you let them see the passion and the fire in your eyes of what Christ has done in your life. And I began to do that. I didn’t debate with her. I said, man, let me tell you what Christ has done for my life. And I use it as a springboard to share the gospel. And as I did, I noticed the lady, she kept her head kept going down. She couldn’t look me in the eyes. She would always look away. And I’ve learned because Christ is light. He is the light of the world. Sometimes when you see into people’s lives, the darkness that is in them, they can’t, they can’t look you in your face and because of oppression in their own personal lives.

Justin Bell (19:29):
And this was the case, the police, they kicked us out of the hospital for sharing the gospel. We didn’t have a knife, we didn’t have a gun. We were simply sharing the love of Jesus and a lo and behold, someone that was listening in the four corner when we got kicked out, they actually came over and started communicating to the lady in Spanish finishing our conversation of sharing the gospel with her. So don’t debate. Let them see the fire passion in your eyes and allow the Holy spirit to use that, to open their hearts.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:59):
Yeah, our goal is not to win arguments. Our goal is to win souls. Now I do have some thoughts about apologetics. I just finished publishing a brand new book called proof. God is real and is basically a book about apologetics going through and looking at different reasons why I believe God is real looking at the, the cosmological proof for God’s existence, the tele illogical proof, which is basically design in the universe, looking at some of the, the different evidences that, that Pentecostal charismatics give, which is basically miracles, looking at different reasons. We can believe that the Bible is true. And so I put all this in, in this book, proof, God is real because I noticed on Twitter and, and YouTube that the spirit of atheism is very strong. There’s lots of atheists that, that make points arguing against Christianity. And I really have a heart for reaching atheist here in America.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:01):
And so that’s why I started researching and writing the book proof. God is real, but often I think that apologetics is, is pre evangelism. You bring people to an understanding that there is a God and that the Bible is reliable. And then they are open to hearing more about Jesus. And so I think some people are approached emotionally, but some people are approached intellectually that, that in. And of course the Bible says, love God with all your heart, your soul, your mind, and your strength. And, and, and so using apologetics is part of how we love God with our mind.

Justin Bell (21:44):
And so in

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:45):
My book on apologetics, it is infused with evangelistic fervor. I tried to put as much of my passion in there to save people from hell, because that’s the reason I wrote it. I, I don’t want anyone to go to hell. And if I can demolish some of the arguments that are keeping them from God, then, then that’s what I try to do in my book. But anyways, that, that book proof God is real. You can find it and on Amazon just type in Daniel King proof, God is real and you can order a copy of it. It’s, it’s hot off the press is, is just coming out this week. And so I’m super excited about that, but I, I do agree with you. We’re not trying to win an argument. All right. Here’s another one. What evangelism is not evangelism is not church planting. Talk to me about that.

Justin Bell (22:35):
Yeah. we need Christian churches all over the world. God knows you know, especially here in Dallas, we have a lot of churches, but a church alone does not solve the problem. It is more of you know, more of an opportunity for people to come in to learn more about Christ. You know, the initial conversation it has to happen when we encounter people. One-On-One in my, in my opinion, you know, people can be invited to an evangelistic event. People can be invited into the inside of the church, but a true evangelism is proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ to the hearts of men, allowing them to come into that reality. And then, you know, using the church as a means to help them grow, learn more about Christ, to get involved to continue to share the message of clients. But we can rely on church planning to, you know, see people come to know Jesus.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:33):
And then the final thing, evangelism is not evangelism is not the increase of numbers of people joining the church.

Justin Bell (23:44):
Yeah. some people, and this is bad, you know, they evangelize to say that they got somebody saved, you know, or they have the prime for motive of you know, I want to see 10 people say to them, I wouldn’t see that. And it’s nothing wrong with that, but it has to be rooted in love. It can be rooted in a self-pride of you wanting to make something happen because you know, that’s in the flesh. So, you know, I think it’s just having the right perspective when you reaching out to people and you, we evangelize because we love them because God loves them. Whether they get saved or not you know, it doesn’t determine our love for them. And so when we communicate the gospel, it’s like people there’s a saying that that’s very powerful. It says, people don’t know, people don’t care what you know, until they know that you care.

Justin Bell (24:35):
And so if you communicate from a place of really wanting to see them save, and they feel like it’s you trying to make something happen, they’re going to repel. But when you say, man, you know, I care about you and they sense that people are not dumb. They know when you actually care about them, they know when you actually have a heart for them. And so, you know, when you communicate from that place, then the conversation can continue versus, you know, you want it to strong, or we call it strong on them into the kingdom. So we don’t want to strong arm people in the kingdom because we want them to stay. We don’t want them to leave. So yeah, it’s, it’s the heart of a caring person that just loves them. Like Jesus loves them and shining the gospel message.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:17):
So we’ve talked about seven things that evangelism is not just give me a brief overview of what you think evangelism is as an evangelist. What do you think of anilism is?

Justin Bell (25:31):
Yeah. I think evangelism in a nutshell is it’s, it’s a warning. It’s an explanation. And a So-Cal I think we are first were warning people of the consequences of sin and through scripture, you know, there’s many scriptures John 16 acts 14 X, 24 warning people about the consequences of disobedience to God. And then it’s an explanation. It’s an explanation of the remedy that God has created for all mankind to come into the knowledge of Jesus Christ and allowing them to understand the remedy of the disobedience. Oh, this said, and then it’s a call. It’s a call for people to respond to what Christ has done. He has made awake. He has become the bridge to restore relationship, right. Relationship between man and God. And so yeah, it’s a warning. It’s an explanation. And the call in a nutshell, I think that’s evangelism biblically, and we are called to communicate this message clearly and allow people to become right with the Lord for all eternity.

Justin Bell (26:42):
You know it’s eternity is a real place and a lot of people may not think about it until, you know, they get sick or they get in the eighties or seventies, but people are dying at 15 years. Old, people are dying at 20 years. Old, people are dying at 12 years old. And so, you know, we have the responsibility to communicate the message, and it’s not a, as you have taught me, it’s not the great option. It’s the great commission, you know, so we are to do it because it’s a command from the Lord. And we may not be, everyone may not be sitting in the office of evangelism, but everyone is called to to share that faith in Christ, through the vocation. You know, whether you’re a lawyer, whether you’re a doctor, whether you’re a basketball player, your responsibility is to win that circle of influence that God has entrusted into you. So that we can see many souls coming to the kingdom.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:34):
Wow, that’s really tremendous. I really love your heart and your, your passion, Justin, you are a great evangelist and it’s a honor to know you, and I believe God’s going to continue to do amazing things through you. If some of my listeners want to support your ministry or find out more about you, could you give your, your website again, what’s the best way for them to find out more information about you?

Justin Bell (27:58):
Yeah. the website is a greater glory, a world ministries.com, Gigi dwdm.com. You can go there. We have information there. Our website is there. You can send us an email, a prayer request as well. We have an Instagram greater glory, well, ministries official, it’s official greater glory on Instagram. We have a Facebook page, greater global warming issues on Facebook. And so those are the ways that you can get in contact and, you know, to serve in a way we can serve as well and give there’s instructions on those platforms.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:34):
That’s awesome. Well, thank you, Justin so much for being on the evangelism podcast. You know, one time Marilyn Hickey told me that miracles are the dinner bell that called people to the banqueting table of heaven. And so I would say that that Justin is the bell that can call people to Jesus. You are like the bell out there, lagging in the wilderness, calling people to the banqueting table of heaven. And so God bless you, Justin. And thanks for being on, on the evangelism podcast.

Justin Bell (29:09):
Thank you, Daniel. Pleasure to be here. Thank you

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:11):
So much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. Could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and give us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (29:33):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Michael D. Butler is an evangelist and he owns a publishing company that helps authors write and publish books. On today’s podcast he shares with us on “How to Launch and Market a Book.”

Marketing

What is a book launch and how do I do one?

What are the top three ways to market your book once you have published it?

How can I make my content go viral?

Websites: https://michaeldbutler.com/

https://beyondpublishing.net

https://writebook60days.com  – Take advantage of Michael Butler’s FREE offer to help you write a book in 60 days.

Are you interested in evangelism? Call the Evangelism Coach Daniel King.

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Michael D. Butler is an evangelist and he owns a publishing company that helps authors write and publish books on today’s podcast. We’re going to talk about how to launch and market your new book.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:14):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:52):
Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. And today I have a special guest. His name is Michael D. Butler. He’s an evangelist he’s recently gone to Pakistan and preach the gospel there. He has a heart for evangelism, but he also has a publishing company that helps authors to write and publish their books. Brother, Michael, thank you so much for being with me today. Daniel’s great to be here on the evangelism podcast. Congrats on nearly 100 episodes. So we’ve done two episodes already. The one episode was how to write a book and then we just finished an episode about how to publish a book. And so if you’re interested in writing or publishing a book, I’d encourage you to go listen to those episodes. But in this episode, let’s talk a little bit about something that I think is probably the most important part of the process.

Michael D. Butler (01:48):
It’s how to market your book and how to get people to actually buy it. And, and I’ve found this to be very important because sometimes I get so engrossed in the process of writing the book. By the time I finished the manuscript, I’m like, I’m tired of talking about that, but that’s when you, you, you need to be most excited because that’s when you start marketing the book that that’s exactly right. And you know, one one famous person is noted for saying that an amazing thing happens when no one advertises nothing. And so if we’re not, if we’re as the author, aren’t excited not talking about her, but we can’t expect anyone else to. And the beauty of it is if you want to sell books, you need others talking about your book. So here here’s my formula for that is start. Now when you’re writing, when you’re in the green room, people want to see behind the scenes stuff. I will actually have my authors and coach my authors to go back date. Some of their social media posts, even though they’re books coming out next week, I’m like, okay, your friends and family have no clue. You’re writing this book, go do this post on Facebook that says, Hey, I’m thinking about writing a book and start creating

Michael D. Butler (03:00):
A little buzz. Your dog’s looking at you at the computer saying, aren’t you going to play with me? And you’re working on the computer late into the night. This is the backstory that creates the intrigued. So the, when the book actually comes out, people start getting excited and you start getting that engagement. And I love sharing some of the chapters that are in the book and start tweaking it and why I’m writing the book, but also sharing it on social media is a great way to get feedback on, Hey, I’m doing a chapter on, I’m a mortgage lender. I’m doing a chapter on credit repair during the pandemic. What do you think? Should I tell Sue story or Bob story, you know, and when you get that kind of feedback and engagement, you’ve almost got a guaranteed bookseller.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:40):
So your advice to, to authors is to actually start the marketing before the book is even published. Start talking about it, start building your platform.

Michael D. Butler (03:50):
That’s exactly right. You know, the beauty is with books because it’s intellectual property. We can finalize a cover start pre-sell and the cover start taking you. Number one, and pre-selling it for six months before the book’s even done, that does two things. It puts, it puts the lights, a fire under the author to get done because they know they’ve got a deadline now and all their friends and family know they’ve announced the book launch by a certain date, but it also revs up your fan base saying, Hey, when’s that book gonna come out? I can’t wait to see it. Maybe you’ve teased a few chapters out there. Maybe you have them opting into your website for a free chapter or chapter one. But at the end of the day, they know there’s a book coming. So Instagram to me is number one, YouTube. You want to be doing video.

Michael D. Butler (04:34):
Video marketing is so powerful. Daniel, as you’ve proven and is, as we’ve seen the videos going viral, share, ask the question, make it about the reader. If you’re writing a book on it, if you’re writing a book on credit repair, like I said, or if you’re writing a book on, on better marriages, there are practical takeaway tips where you feature one of your tips from one of the chapters in the book where you’re setting down and giving a behind the scenes sneak peak. And that’s, what’s going to get shared. That’s what’s going to go viral. People are going to find you because your friends are sharing that.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:08):
Now let’s go to several weeks before you actually publish the book. And you want to do a book launch. What are some secrets or tips of doing a successful book launch?

Michael D. Butler (05:21):
Well, there’s a number of factors that go into it because we’re talking about launching the print book. We’re talking about launching the ebook at the same or different times, but regardless, regardless of any pandemic or our COVID or anything like that, you can do a live slash you can do a virtual slash real book launch. You can go to a bookstore. You can go to a friend’s restaurant. You can rent a room pretty much anywhere. You can have an event in your home just anywhere you would meet with people. You want to print some banners, have some, have some actual books there. I have New York times bestselling authors calling me crying after going to a book signing and only five people showed up, you know, because they used to have lines of 300 people waiting, waiting for hours to get the book signed. Things have changed.

Michael D. Butler (06:13):
Now it’s all about the photo op it’s all about the one-on-one personal touch. You might not have 300 people waiting in line at a bookstore anymore, but go ahead and create the virtual event. That’s going to live online forever because you go to a book signing that’s one and done. But the virtual event that you do online, go ahead and set up an event on your social media, set a date, invite people, get RSVPs, remind them. You’re going to have some giveaways, have some virtual gift baskets from some of your sponsors and just have fun with it. That’s the main thing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:48):
And then after you’ve published the book, give me the top three ways to continue marketing your book after you’ve published it. W which, what platforms should people be using to continually market the book?

Michael D. Butler (07:01):
Well, we kind of have a love, hate relationship with Amazon because they’re the elephant in the room and we need them for a little while and they are 55% of the world’s book sales. So we want to go number one on Amazon. And we, we want to get that best seller logo that that’s worth it. That’s worth it. I’ve got videos on that, how to do that. And as you’ve mentioned get that you want to get the print book into people’s hands as quickly as possible. And the ebook is very important. You want the ebook done properly, not you don’t just put up a word document or PDF. It’s not going to look right. It’s gotta be a.mobi. If it’s going to be on Amazon, it’s gotta be a dot EPUB three. If it’s going to look right on other platforms, you want to do all that properly.

Michael D. Butler (07:44):
You invest a little money on the front end, but it really makes you look good on the back end. You want to make your content is shareable as possible and as snackable as possible. And the way you do that is through video promotion. So you say this week, I’m giving away one of my books on great marriages, and I’m going to give it to the third person, that comments or the fifth person that comments or whatever. And then you start seeing those comments go viral, and then you get somebody’s mailing address. And then you do the video and say, Hey, Tom and Patty Jones, and you follow Oklahoma, or the winner of this week’s book. And I’m going to, and you do the video of you packing it up in the mailer and sending it out to them because they were engaged on your page. And that kind of stuff really goes a long way. It doesn’t cost a lot, but people feel like you really care about them. And then, and then have them tweet it, have a develop a hashtag around your book, around your brand. So maybe your hashtag on, on God is real, is hashtag God is real. That’s your book. And I have hashtags around all my books, where I can see when people are talking about it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:45):
So on my healing power book, what I did on that one is I took all the content and I broke it down into small, in recorded a video for each segment. So this book has about 30 videos that are recorded and mostly all the content, just straight from the book. I just stand in front of a camera and teach on it and put a little intro on it, little outgo at the end, talking about the book. And some of those, those videos, they still get several thousand views over the course of a month. That’s exactly what people should be doing. And some of them have like 200 views ever. And then some of them have attracted thousands of views, and I’m not sure what

Michael D. Butler (09:31):
You could be on your local news and not get that kind of, that kind of impressions and views. And so that is so important. I got business people Daniel, that write books with 12 chapters, and then they have a mastermind that they charged $2,000 for. What do they do in the mastermind? They take the book and they just do a deeper dive into those 12 chapters. So they’re using the same content that they already wrote off the $20 book. And they’re diving into a mastermind and they’ve got the script in their hand because they already wrote the book.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:00):
So if you want to achieve a best-selling book, you, you want your, your content to go viral. What are some ways to make your content go viral?

Michael D. Butler (10:13):
Well, you want to start early with a great idea. I’ve got a book coming out on Valentine’s day, depending on when you listen to this, it’s called it’s complicated and it’s a book about love. And it’s, it’s a fiction book. It’s my first stab at fiction. So pick up a copy of it’s complicated

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:28):
And that’s a great title because it is complicated. It’s fun.

Michael D. Butler (10:32):
So start early, have something fun. Hashtag it’s complicated. It’s complicated. Exactly. And have a bigger purpose around it. I say, if you donate some books to kids, I I’m big into kids and literacy. And we work with reading is fundamental, has given away a hundred thousand of our authors books. We have the Harry Moon book series for kids, and it helps kids read. It’s all about literacy and helping kids with, with dyslexia read better because it’s a, the fonts that we use. And so have the bigger picture around. I love the toolbox you’ve got for churches. I love the book you’ve got on how to write a book. I want to have you on the show for that. The ministry toolbox series is great. So have a reason and a purpose around it. The more practical and tactical it is. And the very tart more targeted it is. You can sell more books.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:28):
So if someone needs your help with a book launch or making more sales on their books, how can they find out more information about you?

Michael D. Butler (11:37):
Sure. We help authors all around the world and they can just go to my calendar by going to beyond publishing.net and my personal website. Michael D as in David, Michael D butler.com, jump on my calendar. I’ll give them a three 30 minute book consult and we’ll give

Michael D. Butler (11:54):
Them some options on how they can move forward with us. Well, that’s a no brainer it’s free. So 30 minutes you can talk with the expert, and then you also have developed a program which you very generously offered to give away free to my listeners today in it’s how to write a book in 60 days. How can someone take advantage of your free offer to learn how to write a book? Sure. We’ve, we’ve had PhD doctors and pastors go through this course, it’s it normally sells for $897. We’ve decided to make it free for your listeners for short time. Thank you. That’s very generous. Sure. At right book 60 days.com and go ahead and opt in for it now, and you’ll get the email that will be live by the time this podcast airs or write books, 60 days.com. And you’ll be notified with a link and you can have access to all eight of the videos, which are practical aspects of every part of writing the book and from the cover of the title, the subtitle, the back cover, and then the, even how to promote the book and launch it and properly.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:56):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast, brother, Michael,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:03):
Hey, it’s great to be here and grab, grab Daniel’s books. He’s got some great books and, and I love what you’re doing in the world. Where are you off to next? Sierra Leone is my next trip, and we’re going to go and preach the gospel there and train evangelists, coach evangelists. And that’s what I do. I coach evangelists. So if you need help with evangelism or you’re, you’re wanting to go to nations around the world, give me a call and I will help you out. Thanks for having me on the show. He, that wins souls is wise. Thank you, brother, Michael. God bless you. Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. Could you do me a favor, go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review and make sure you subscribe. So you don’t miss any of our exciting episodes

Evangelism Podcast Host (13:50):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Michael D. Butler is an evangelist and he owns a publishing company that helps authors write and publish books. On today’s podcast he shares with us on “How to Publish a Book.”

Publishing

What is the difference between traditional publishing, self-publishing, and hybrid publishing?

Why is it important to have someone edit your book?

How much does it cost to publish a book?

How long does it take to get a book published?

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Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:01):
Michael D. Butler is an evangelist and he owns a publishing company that helps authors write and publish books on today’s podcast. He’s going to talk about how to publish a book.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:14):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionary, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:51):
The evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I also am excited about writing and books because books are a great way to tell more people about Jesus. Today. I have an expert in writing and publishing a books. Michael Butler. Thank you for being on the evangelism podcast. Hey, it’s great to be here, Daniel. Thanks for having me back. So tell me a little bit about your background in the publishing industry. How many books have you published and help authors publish over the last few years, we’ve published 350 titles in the last three years. And you know, it’s just amazing because a lot of people thought the internet killed publishing, but book readership is up globally and publishing is up globally. And if you’ve got a story in you, now’s the time to get it out to the world, specifically how to, you want to do a, how to book is the, if you’re going to write fiction or nonfiction, there’s really a place in the Christian market for Christian romance.

Michael D. Butler (01:50):
We’ve got we got some screenplays and books being option for movies right now. So I will talk about that. There’s a real demand for, for Christian content, for faith content. And when it comes to writing books, the books that sell the highest in the in the how to, or the nonfiction is, is how to books, how to books and self-help books, you can do your memoir, but that’s the slowest moving category of book. And then on the on the fiction side, if you’re going to do romance, keep it clean. I, Hey, listen, Christians need to read romance books too. Right? And wouldn’t that be great to have some godly Christian romance books that are appropriate, that we could still option for movies and sell to Hollywood. So no naked people on the front of the Christian romance, just, yeah, they have to have a shirt button, some clothes on him. Well, I know my wife really loves that category. She, she reads a lot of, of great stuff in, in Christian romance and there’s definitely a need for it. So let’s talk about publishing a book. How does someone publish book nowadays?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:00):
There there’s a traditional model of, of publishing and then there’s their self publishing. And then there’s some ways of publishing that kind of combined the two. So could you explain those different categories and what the publishing process is like with modern techniques?

Michael D. Butler (03:15):
Sure. In the past, if somebody had a good book idea, they would go pitch it to a New York publisher like assignment and Schuster or a McMillan and hope to hear back. The downside of that is when you publish traditionally, they kept the rights that traditional publisher keeps the rights and only pays the author about 15 to 20%. The upside is your book would get global distribution, but on the downside, it can take two to three years to bring it to market. If they give you a call back. And the way it works now is if you don’t have 2 million followers on social media, have your own TV show, you won’t get that call back. The self publishing route is, is like it’s named you do everything yourself. And the average self-published author, statistically never sells more than 200 books because they never get distribution beyond Amazon.

Michael D. Butler (04:04):
Amazon’s only 55% of the world’s book sales. Now you do keep a hundred percent of the royalty and sin. You do keep the rights, but you’ve got to do everything yourself. So by the time you find a cover designer, find an editor, do all those things, figure out how to do an EPUB conversion. You’re a few thousand dollars in, and you don’t have everything just right on the copyright registration in the library of Congress. That’s where you might want to call a hybrid publisher. That’s the other option. And the hybrid model is, is a really popular model now because it lets the author keep the rights, keep the lion’s share of the royalties, get global distribution and bring it to market fast. So in fact, as a hybrid publisher, that’s what we do. And we get our authors into bookstores and libraries and set them up properly. There’s a one-time author investment on the front side, which is nominal. And it’s about the same as what an author would invest if they were doing it themselves. And we ensure everything’s done properly and done properly the first time.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:59):
And so if someone was interesting in utilizing your services for publishing a book, how could they find out more information about you?

Michael D. Butler (05:07):
Yeah, they can reach out to us on the net at beyondpublishing.net and michaeldbutler.com. We’ve been able to help so many authors, Michael D butler.com and beyond publishing.net. And they can just set up a free 30 minute consult with myself or one of my team members. And we will give them feedback on their book, title, subtitle, marketability of their books, sellability of their book and give them feedback and also look at their, their timeline goals and their book launch goals and see if we might be a fit.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:41):
So what are some of the elements that go into actually publishing a book? Like let’s say someone has written a manuscript, they’ve opened up Microsoft word and they’ve pounded on the keyboard and they have 50,000 words or a hundred thousand words that they’ve, they’ve written. Then what’s the next step. How do they go from having this file to actually having a printed book in their hand?

Michael D. Butler (06:06):
Well, we always like to tell authors is if you’re going to launch a book, launch a movement around it, don’t just launch a book, but launch a workshop or a course around it that really ties into your brand. So if you’re out there doing marriage seminars right now, and you’re writing a book on marriage, that’s a good fit. If you haven’t started your marriage seminars yet tell your reader, Hey, we’re, we’re launching this book because we’ve been doing marriage seminars for people in the past. We’re going to start that up again. And you want to include testimonials of people that have gone through your marriage workshop, that you’ve been able to help. And then you want to have a QR code in that book so that they can go to your landing page to see what workshops you have coming up on the calendar.

Michael D. Butler (06:47):
So let’s really build a movement around the book because let’s face it. Book sales are only about 20% of an author’s revenue. You want to have a back and product. So like Daniel’s got a podcast here, but he’s also got, he’s got a huge ministry. He’s evangelizing the world. And so what is your strategy? Let’s look at your strategy. If you’re a therapist, if you’re a pastor, if you’re a speaker, you do workshops. How can we plug that book into the overall next level? I always say to authors, why are you selling now? What’s your core product? How can we expand it? Can you explore it some more revenue out of one of these verticals, be it a, you know, licensed family therapist and you’re doing marriage workshops. That’s a perfect fit.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:30):
Now I’ve, I’ve met some ministers that, that they have, self-published a book and they hand it to me. It’s got a really ugly cover. It has a grainy photo on the back. It obviously hasn’t been edited because there are spelling mistakes and in different places. And it seems no matter how much the anointing is on that book is never going to do well because it just doesn’t look attractive. And they really haven’t made it look the way a professionally published book would look, even if God is in it, it’s still, they say, don’t judge a book by the cover, but everybody judges a book by the cover. So what are some of the steps that it takes to, to make a book look attractive and look like something that one would want to buy? I think first step would, would maybe be an editor. Talk to me about that. The editing process, what needs to go into that? Well, edit

Michael D. Butler (08:33):
Getting as much like a, a mechanic, you know, you’ve got to have a good mechanic to keep the car running smoothly. That’s what’s on the inside, but we, we pre-sell books and go number one for you before you ever are done writing the manuscript because we finalize the cover. And, and that is through a strategic meeting where we do with you on a zoom car in person that who is the reader of this book. So we can actually, pre-sell the cover of the book with blank pages for six months help you go bestseller because we know what sells. And you know, a lot of people will come up with a subtitle that they think is a title, like how to win friends and influence people. That was a popular book by the way, by Dale Carnegie. But it was more of a subtitle and the subtitle is what’s in it for me.

Michael D. Butler (09:22):
And that really doesn’t need to be the title. That’s the way we used to do titles. But now we want to capture the readers intrigue with one or two words, one or two syllables, and then tell them what’s in it in the subtitle. So there’s a whole science around the science around the book is if somebody sees your book on a shelf or online and the title intrigues them, then they’ll turn it over and read the back. And then the back cover content. The whole goal of the back cover content is to look at the table of contents. And if you intrigued me with one of these chapters that tells me evidence of the Bible, and I opened up to chapter five and I start reading it, I’m 83% likely to go up to the cash register and pay for this book by Daniel King. Even if I don’t know Daniel King, because I want to know that there’s evidence of God in the Bible. So that was the cover back cover table of contents, all very powerful hooks to get me to buy the book.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:17):
What are some elements that should be on the cover, the back cover?

Michael D. Butler (10:22):
Well, I liked, I liked the author picture to be on the front cover. It’s, it’s very important because you’re really selling yourself. Yeah. You’re yeah. You’re, you’re, you’re branding yourself. So when somebody sees you on a Christian program on television, or even just on a podcast or a YouTube channel, they’re like, I know I’ve seen this guy before you want that name brand recognition. You’re young. You’re going to be around a long time. And that’s what you want. There’s a lot of false teachers out there. There’s a lot of false prophets. So you’re, you’re, you’re selling truth. You’re selling the word of God and you’re sharing the word of God with the world and there’s nothing wrong. You know, I, you know, some churches bless their heart. They teach you to be so humble that you don’t know how to market yourself. And there’s a final, I mean, th there’s a balance there and you do, you do want, this is the right thing to do. I’ve got Daniel’s book here, master. So winner, you can become a master. So winner, you do want your picture on the cover of the book nine times out of 10. There’s some people that have a face for radio. And we’ll talk about that when we meet.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:25):
So if someone comes to your, your company in, in and wants your help with publishing a book, typically how much do they invest in into that process?

Michael D. Butler (11:38):
So they’re gonna, they’re gonna make a one-time author investment of about $3,000, which we’re going to help them make back quickly by selling 300 books. And that’s going to be a turnkey thing that we, we do everything them, including

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:54):
That’s that’s editing, cover design, net, quotation, helping them also

Michael D. Butler (12:01):
ISB in library of Congress. EPUB conversion all the set up, loading it to hundreds of sites, Barnes, and noble.com Books-A-Million dot com, amazon.com. That’s the, e-book the audio book, the hardcover and the paperback that includes everything except editing and cover design, because with editing is based on word count. So you could bring us a 30,000 word book, or you could bring us a hundred thousand word book, and it’s going to be based on, based on word count.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:28):
So you have a program to help people put out a book in only 60 days. How, how can they take benefit of that program?

Michael D. Butler (12:37):
Yeah, it’s a proven program. It’s helped 85% of the attendees complete their book 85% of their manuscript within eight weeks. And it’s at right book 60 days.com, right? Wr ITE book six, zero days.com and they can access it for free because we’re on the program here. And yeah, there’s a great testimonials. About how long

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:02):
Does it typically take for a book to be published?

Michael D. Butler (13:06):
Well, once somebody brings us a rough manuscript, we can have it published in four weeks. So while it’s off to edit, we’re working with the author on the cover design, we bring four or five designs to them. Once they pick the one they want, we’ll tweak it. And then we start pre-selling with 3d images launch announcements for their social media. We’re pushing it out on our side as well. We’re incentivized to push the book out everywhere and we take their books and their catalog to all the major book shows of the world.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:34):
That’s outstanding. Well, thank you so much for talking to us about how to publish a book. You are an expert in this, you’ve published over 350 books in the last three years, so, so thank you, Michael Butler for being on the evangelism podcast.

Michael D. Butler (13:50):
Yes, Daniel. Thank you always a pleasure. Thanks so much.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:54):
The evangelism podcast today, could you do me a favor, go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review and make sure you subscribe. So you don’t miss any of our exciting episodes

Evangelism Podcast Host (14:09):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Michael D. Butler is an evangelist and he owns a publishing company that helps authors write and publish books. On today’s podcast he shares with us on “How to Write a Book.”

Do you have a book in you? Have you been STUCK in the manuscript? Do you need help finally getting it written?

Websites: https://michaeldbutler.com/

beyondpublishing.net

writebook60days.com  – Take advantage of Michael Butler’s FREE offer to help you write a book in 60 days.

Writing

What are some reasons why a minister would want to write a book?

What are some ways that a minister can develop content?

What would you tell someone who is wanting to write a book but does not know where to start?

You have a program helping people write a book in 60 days. What are the secrets to writing a book in 60 days?

Seven questions new and existing authors need to ask themselves before launching any new book project are:

1. Is there enough demand for the topic I am writing about?

2. How many books have been written on my chosen topic?

3. How many of those books have hit Best Seller?

4. Do I have an active, Online community that is connected to my topic?

5. Do I have speaking gigs (Online and in person) lined up to speak to people that are passionate about my cause and my project?

6. Do I have a social media presence where I am considered an influencer and thought leader on my topic?

7. Have I interviewed enough experts on my topic and could I feature their content in my book?

Check out The Evangelism Podcast hosted by Daniel King the Evangelism Coach

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:02):
Michael D. Butler is an evangelist and he owns a publishing company that helps authors write and publish books on today’s podcast. He shares with us on how to write

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:12):
A book. Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionary, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the event

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:51):
Angeles and podcast. I’m Daniel King. And I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest Michael D. Butler. He is an expert at writing books, publishing books, and then promoting books and doing launches for books. And he’s got a great company that helps people to write books, but before he’s an author and helping authors, he is an evangelist at heart. So brother Michael, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Michael D. Butler (01:22):
Hey, thank you, Daniel. And congratulations. I know you’re getting close to 100 shows and wow. I listened to Keith Wheeler. That’s a great episode. So thanks for having me on, you know, now more than ever people’s stories, getting out to the world is very important. And guess what readership is up globally? The good news is the internet did not kill readership and book publishing. Thanks for having me on the show.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:44):
So you have a heart for evangelism just recently. You were in the nation of Pakistan. Tell me what you were doing in Pakistan.

Michael D. Butler (01:51):
Well, you know, Pakistan is 98 to 99% Muslim country and it’s the actual, and you’ve you’ve ministered there. So, you know, the country, well, it’s the only country that truly is dedicated to Mohammed, whereas America, you know, as a Christian nation it’s but th there, there are many believers there and they they’re getting born again every day. The church is growing and just a great work of God there. And, you know, people are hungry for the Lord and salvation healings, miracle, spirit field called to preach. I mean, there’s so many amazing young people there. If you have daughters there, you keep them covered up and you keep them locked up. It’s you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s one of those areas of the world. That’s not very safe. There is persecution, but the believers there are very they love Jesus and the missionaries we’re working with on the ground, we’ve been blessed to rescue 75 kids this last year from, from slavery.

Michael D. Butler (02:47):
And right now we’re putting the first three girls through a beautician school and cosmetology school. And then once they get out, they pledged to give 25% back to help their classmates get a professional education. And we’re moving forward with not only teaching them the word of God everyday, teaching them to read and write and become literate. So they don’t have to go back to the brick bond, each slavery life, which is a big part of Pakistan in the third generation debts that their parents and grandparents had. So they’re basically making bricks every day, you know, in the hot sun and for about a dollar or two a day. And so we’re actually helping break that cycle by not only preaching the gospel, but educating them and giving them, you know, teaching them life skills that they can be employed for life.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:29):
Wow. That’s so awesome. And your heart for evangelism goes all the way back to when you were very young. Tell me how that got started.

Michael D. Butler (03:38):
Well, I, you know, I w I was born again at age seven. I remember we went to church every time the doors were open and it was, it was actually a video evangelism, you know, Billy Graham had some great films out back then. There were some other groups, had some great evangelism films back there that as we say, scared the hell out of you as a kid, because you didn’t want to be left behind. And I think that was the name of one of the movies who was left behind and the Modi was right in the heart was right. And I knew, I knew as a child from reading the word, but also hearing in messages and seeing on movies that there’s a heaven to gain and a hell to shun, and Jesus is real and it turned it he’s forever. And God is such a God of love and compassion.

Michael D. Butler (04:19):
I, you know, you look at Noah and how long God kept that door open, because he’s such a, a long suffering kind. It’s the kindness of the Lord that brings us to repentance. But there was a sign at the back of the church that said he, that wins souls is wise. And I saw that every time we left the church, but something very amazing before my dad ever became a pastor. He worked for public service, the local power company. And so before a take, your kid to work day was popular. Like it is now as, as a kid 45, 50 years ago, dad would take me to work sometimes. And on his lunch break, I would see him pray for coworkers. I would see him lead lead men to Jesus, and that just put a, put a heart of fire and compassion in me to, to win souls.

Michael D. Butler (05:05):
He, that wins souls is wise. And, you know, I’ve done the business thing. I’ve done the pastoring and ministry thing. And I don’t think you can separate them. God’s calling so many people that are in the marketplace and to the ministry and giving them a bigger platform even than some pastors. And so I don’t think it’s either, or I think it’s all of the above people in the marketplace need Jesus and people in all over the world need Jesus. So just share open your mouth. And here’s the thing I learned most though, here’s the thing business taught me. And that is this. I used to do a lot of door to door sales in college. And when you’re calling on somebody, you don’t just make the offer. The minute they opened the door, you do, what’s called the warmup. You get to know them, you ask them pre-qualifying questions and you want to get a yes from them.

Michael D. Butler (05:53):
And you really establish that relationship and connection because people don’t, they don’t care how much, you know, until they know how much you care. And we’ve got the greatest thing in the, in the universe. And that’s salvation. That’s Jesus and Jesus, you know, no matter what country you’re in, no matter what your politics is, money won’t fix the problem whoever’s in the white house or in your political realm will not fix the office. It’s Jesus. Jesus is the only one that can bring healing when your kids are depressed on drugs or running from God. That’s Jesus is the one that matters and Jesus is not some woo woo person off in a cloud. But he’s real practical. Jesus is very practical, teach you how to be a better parent, how to be a better manager of money, how to be a better husband and wife. It’s just the journey has been amazing. Daniel

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:43):
And you are also a businessman in your business is helping people write books, promote their books, publish their books. And so I thought it’d be a good idea to not just do one podcast with you, but we’re going to do a series of three podcasts. And so the, this first podcast, let’s talk about how to write a book. First of all, let’s start with a question of why do you think it’s important for a minister to write books and to be a published author?

Michael D. Butler (07:14):
Well, in the first place, Mark 16, 15 says go into all the world and preach. And actually in the amplified, it says, preach and publish the gospel. There’s something so eternal and long lasting about the written word. And, you know, publishing is up. Reading is up ahead of movies. People are reading more than ever, you know, and it’s, it’s the, it’s the printing press Daniel that brought us out of the dark ages because the, the common man wasn’t allowed to read most weren’t literate back in the 15 hundreds. And in the Catholic church, the the word of God was read in Latin and the the parishioners didn’t understand what was being read. So they didn’t understand that they were righteous with God through Christ. That’s what, that’s what Martin Luther, Martin Luther, thank you very much. That’s what it was about.

Michael D. Butler (08:08):
It was about being justified by faith. And so when you can read the word of God in, in your language, it helps you understand it and apply it to your life. So readership is up, is up globally. So how does somebody write a book and decide, Hey, I want to write a book well for a pastor, it goes without saying that your most popular sermons should be a book. And so we worked with a lot of pastors to get their, their sermons into books. We’ve got a special program for pastors to make that happen quickly so that they’ve got something to sell. If the back of the room and their bookstores is they’re out traveling and preaching, it expands their reach, but it also empowers their parishioners and and, and gives people an opportunity globally to learn about them. You’re seeing a lot of people that are pastoring churches now globally, and it’s partly virtual and partly in person, but the written word is so powerful and we do it digitally. We do it print. We do it ebook and audio book.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:03):
So what are some ways that a minister can develop content and then turn their, their spoken content into the written page?

Michael D. Butler (09:14):
Well, that’s great. You know, we’ve got, we’ve got a team of transcriptionists that are very effective, very affordable, very quick. You would be surprised. And we publish authors all over the world. And many times an author will provide us, you know, the transcripts and we’ll have the an edited version back to the author within 72 hours. That’s not, that’s not uncommon.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:38):
What would you say to someone who feels like God wants them to write a book? And they feel like they, they have a book on their heart, but they just don’t know where to start. Where would you tell them to start the process?

Michael D. Butler (09:51):
Well, I’ve been teaching this for years and we’ve published 350 titles and a, with 120 authors. And so I just completed an eight week eight module course that I’m offering for free to your listeners only for a limited time at write book, 60 days.com, where they can actually access all my training videos that I did recently in the TV studio. And it goes into who is your avatar? Why do you want to write a book, how to outline the chapters, how to choose the title and subtitle, what copy needs to go on the back cover? And we, we deal with transitions, memory hooks. How long should the paragraphs be? How long should the chapter be? We go into all the technical aspects of writing the book, formulating the content and laying it out. And 85% of the students that have gone through that course in eight weeks, time are 85% done with their manuscript. And since it’s a modular format, now it’s complete at your own pace. We’ve actually got some students going through that course. And within eight hours, they know exactly they’ve got their book outlined. And then within the next eight days, their book has done.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:58):
Wow. So that’s extremely rapid. So you think it’s possible that someone could actually write a book in 60 days, two months? Yeah.

Michael D. Butler (11:07):
You know, the first two modules we really hone in on who is the audience and what is the goal of the book? Once we actually write the book backwards with you, by deciding beginning with the end in mind, writing the book backwards, deciding who, which market is your target market. For example, you might have one idea in your mind, but it’s too broad. It’s too general. It’s too vague. We help you boil it down and make it specific. For example, my book, my first book, the single dad, survival guide was very niche, very specific to dads who had just gone through a divorce that needed resources to move forward with their life. And so I decided to make that my first book, as a result of going through my own strategic program here,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
I was looking at your YouTube channel and you’ve got some tremendous resources, just videos that you put up on YouTube answering some of the questions that that writers go through. I was just looking at one and you had seven questions that a new and existing author needs to ask before they launch a new book project. And so let’s just go through these really quick. Number one, is there enough demand for the topic that I’m writing about number two, how many books have been written on my chosen topic? Number three, how many of those books I’ve hit bestseller status? Number four, do I have an active online community? That’s connected to my topic? Number five, do I have speaking gigs lined up to speak to people that are passionate about this, this cause, or this project? Number six? Do I have a social media presence where I’m considered an influencer and thought leader on my topic and seven, have I interviewed enough experts on my topic? And could I feature their content in my book? So talk to me why it’s important to ask those types of questions in before you even get started writing your book.

Michael D. Butler (12:49):
Well, if you identify who is already speaking to and writing to your audience, then you don’t have to go create another audience. You know, audience gathering is difficult in a, in a post-internet world. You know, it used to be, you’d go down to the town square and you would meet and mingle with the Baker, the Butler, the butcher, the cobbler, and the other people in the square. And you would trade your wares and buy vegetables and, and that type of thing. Now that everything is online, finding communities, for example, single dads that need resources. We know that men typically don’t read books. So it’s a smaller niche. It’s harder to find. Women are reading 78% of the books in the marketplace. We know that 70, 80% of the books in the marketplace are fiction, fiction consumption. So if you’re writing a nonfiction book, you’ve already got a smaller target to hit it’s about 30 or 40%, but realize that your target market’s there. Who’s speaking to them now, how do you find them on social media? How do you find communities online that you can begin to make relationships with and network with? And so you’re, you’re further ahead. If you want to be picked up by a publisher, you want to sell more books, you identify where they’re at, but you also look at the demographic and the questions that they’re asking, what if you’re, if you’re answering questions that nobody’s asking, then you’re not going to have any book sales. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:12):
So I actually wrote a book on how to write a book. I’ve written over 20 books in my lifetime, and I’m working on another 20 or 30 that are close to being finished. And so people kept asking me, Daniel, how do I write a book? And I would sit down and spend hours with them talking to them, like my process. And finally, I said, I need to write a book on how to write a book. And so I wrote it and it’s on my website, King ministries.com click on the, the resource is button. And you can find my book on, on how to write a book, but here’s some of the reasons that, that I came up with why ministers should, should write books number one, books, help believers to grow spiritually. And, and so if you’re discipling someone, you can hand them a book.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:59):
And that discipleship process can go far faster. Two books continue to preach the gospel long after you returned home. So I’m a international missionary. I go all over the world, preaching the gospel, but I’ve got kids. So after I preach, I want to come home and spend some time with my kids, but I leave my books in that country. And those books are a seed that continue to produce a harvest. Long after I come back, one time I was in the nation of Congo and I was preaching in a little dirt floor church. There were chickens running all over the place. People were packed into that church. They’re even hanging in through the wind, the windows. And I looked over at the pastor and he had his Bible. And then on top of his Bible, he had another book that was covered in duct tape.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:44):
And I said, what’s that, that book that you have there and he handed it to me and I opened it up and it was one of Dr. TL Osborne’s books. TL Osborn was a great missionary evangelist from here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And he sold millions of books into nations all over the world. And he’s the pastor told me, he says, 20 years ago, TL Osborn came to my nation of Congo. And he gave my father this book. And my father became a pastor. He says for 20 years, my father preached from this book. So last year my father died and I became the pastor. Now I’m preaching from this book. And so that showed me the power that one book can have, especially if you’re in ministry, that book can go farther than you can go. It can stay longer than you can stay. It can impact people that you never even speak to.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:30):
In one of our crusades, we did a survey and found out that every book that we gave away was read by an average of 10 people because they take it home to their family. The whole family would read it, they’d loan it to their neighbor. And so people often share the books back and forth and in their treasured when we go overseas and, and give away books people don’t throw them on the ground. They don’t tear them up and throw it into the trashcan. They, they really treasure it. And, and we see people holding it very carefully as, as they go home. Because I just want to say

Michael D. Butler (17:04):
About your book in Urdu for Pakistan, you know, and welcome to the kingdom because I know you’ve preached in Pakistan many times, and we actually have a printing press there in Sahi wall. And they love your book. You know, that’s a, to have a book in Urdu in their language, you’re exactly right. They share it with the entire family and they pass it on and it keeps, it keeps moving forward.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:26):
And so books are more durable than the spoken word. If you’re speaking to an audience, people listen to you, but then after you leave maybe they don’t remember, but if you give them a book, they can put that on their shelf. They can pull it off. They can remember what you’ve said and, and books really help you to spread your, your message. And then a book is also your, your lasting legacy in the years to come. You know, all of us are going to die. We’re going to go to heaven, but we’ll leave our books here after we go. And so I expect the books that I’ve written will continue to impact lives for dozens, hundreds of years to come. Even after I go to heaven, if Jesus tarries,

Michael D. Butler (18:08):
Well, that’s exciting. Dr. Daniel King grabbed the books. I’m sitting here looking at a stack of your books and it’s pretty daunting. I need to have you on, on some of our podcasts. And a lot of our authors are doing their podcasts now, because what they’ve learned during the pandemic is the power of the word, just like you said, and it does live on. But the beautiful thing is in, when we talk about books in English, 76% of books in English are bought and read outside the U S so when you talk about making an impact with your book, especially if it’s a faith-based kingdom book it has that much more potential because of the share-ability and the anointing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:47):
So I think if you, if you want to write a book, what I would encourage you to do is first of all, find one word that expresses what you’re most passionate about. Like when you think of, of Kenneth Hagan, what word do you think of that expresses Kenneth Hagan?

Michael D. Butler (19:01):
Well, I’m going to say the anointing because we just translated understanding the avoidance

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:04):
Wrong answer. It’s the faith. It would be faith.

Michael D. Butler (19:08):
Yeah, definitely faith. Now there’s somebody there that’s written several hundred books translating into like 50, 50 languages, but he was, he was called the,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:17):
Yeah. So, so write down, you know, what are you passionate about? Are you, are you passionate about faith? Are you passionate about having a happy marriage? Are you passionate about God’s healing power? Are you passionate about helping people to be financially successful? What is it that drives you and, and try to narrow it down to one thing and then write down seven facts that you know about that subject just under your

Michael D. Butler (19:44):
That’s so powerful right there. I want to say something as a precursor is a lot of Christian authors are writing their memoirs. Okay. And that’s okay. That’s cathartic, that’s therapeutic. Okay. But maybe you’re not going to publish that, or at least not all of it because people buy how to books. People don’t buy memoirs. And that’s what you got to realize that the top selling category of nonfiction is how to books, which is exactly what you’re describing. So listen to Daniel, give you these how to tips. And if you’ve got a 200 page binder of your memoirs, you can still tell your story, but embedded in a how to book, what are those steps? I I’m liking this.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:20):
So start out with seven facts that you knew about the subject and those seven facts could be your, your first seven chapters, then write down seven experiences in your life that relate to your topic. If you’re writing about healing, have you ever been healed? Who do you know, that’s been healed? Who can you interview? That’s been healed, look for real life examples to illustrate each fact that you knew about it, then go to scripture and write down seven scriptures that relate to your, and so use those seven ideas to write an outline for your book, and then develop a table of contents. There’s a author here in, in Tulsa. His name is Jim Stovall. He’s written a lot of great books and he wants told me that there’s three elements to every book. The first element is information. What do you know? And so those are the facts.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:10):
The second element is story. How do you know what, you know, how did you discover the truth of what it is? You know? And when I read a book, I like the facts. I flipped through it, but I find myself often going in and wanting to read something about the, the individual story and finding out something about how they applied this to real life. And then the third element is humor and emotion. And often that comes from the moment that you discovered what it is that you know, so one day you, you didn’t know it, then you learned it and it totally turned your life around. And sometimes that aha moment is, is humorous. And there’s emotion involved, either emotion that that’s negative. You, you learned it through the hard way, learning a lesson, or suddenly you heard someone express. And so if you’ll take information, combine it with the story and then put humor and emotion. That is a great way to, to write a book. And so

Michael D. Butler (22:13):
Say too, about Jim Stovall, he sold 30 million books. So he definitely knows what he’s talking about there. I love that. And you’ve, I mean, I can look at the sheer volume you’re doing, I don’t know, are you going to do a hundred books, probably

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:25):
Leave where Jesus comes. It’s on my list. You know, years ago, I, I bought some ISB and numbers and don’t let those go away. And I wasn’t, this was when I was 17 years old. I had just written my first book and they, they had an option. You could buy one ISB in number 10, ISB in numbers, or a hundred ISB in numbers. And I said, you know, I’m, I’m young, I’m only 17. I’ve only written one book, but I think in my lifetime I can do a hundred books. So I bought 100 ISB numbers. I’ve used 25, 27 of them, something like that. And I’m continuing to use. And by the time I die, I’m going to have a hundred books. Now that’s an international

Michael D. Butler (23:08):
Well standard book number assigned to each new book. And, and I got to say, that is Epic.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:15):
So if you’re called to be a writer, some other things I’d recommend that you do is develop your, your information system. So I’ve identified a hundred topics that I want to write on in my lifetime. So on my computer, I have files of all the different topics that I want to write on. And as I’m going through life, you know, I listened to a preacher. He makes a good point. I say, Oh, that could fit in this book. And I’ll, I’ll take that idea, drop it into that file. And I may not write that book another five years or 10 years, but by the time I get around to writing that book, I’ve got all these ideas. So, so like one of the books I want to write someday is how to have a happy marriage. Well, when I first got married, you know, I’d only been married like a year or two.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:59):
And when you’re only married a year too, you don’t know anything about marriage, even if you think you do. And so I was like, I better wait until I’m a little bit older until I have a few more years under my belt before I write how to have, there’s nothing worse than someone who’s never been married, writing a book on how to have a happy marriage. And, and so, you know, so that’s one of the books, but as I’m going through life, you know, we have different stories, different things that happen in our marriage, and I’m taking those ideas, dropping them into that file. And so when the time comes to write that book, how to have a happy marriage, I will have lots of content from a lifetime to do you know, another one, how

Michael D. Butler (24:36):
Is your wife able to put content in those folders

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:38):
To she, this is one of the hardest books it is,

Michael D. Butler (24:41):
Right? Because I think that would be great. And just say, honey, I’m gonna give you access to this folder. If you see anything that you could include in here about this day, be sure and timestamp it. Yeah. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:53):
Then, you know, if I’m reading through my Bible and I see a verse that really jumps out at me about miracles or something, well, I’ve never read in a book specifically about miracles, but someday I want to, so I’ll take that, make my notes on it, drop that in into a file. And so some of my books, people ask me, how long did it take you to write a book? Well, some of my books I’ve been working on them for, for 10 or 15 years. I just published this, this new book. It’s called a proof. God is real. And it’s a, it’s a book about apologetics that answers the three greatest questions that are asked today. The first question is, is God there, the second question does God care? And the third question is, do I dare to follow him? And every high schooler needs that book, I think, yeah, absolutely. It’s written for it for high schoolers. People who are about to go to college and, and in their parents want them to be from and knowing what it is that

Michael D. Butler (25:47):
They, why you believe what you believe. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:49):
So this book, I remember the first time I preached on pieces of this book probably was about 15 years ago. And so from start to actually having the book in my hand, I’ve been collecting these ideas, working on it, studying and putting it all together. And now it’s finally a finished manuscript and it’s been published

Michael D. Butler (26:14):
Well, it’s a great book. And I, kids are going off to college by the numbers and getting liberalized and losing their faith because they don’t have these bedrocks of the truth embedded in them. So God is real proof. God is real Dr. Daniel King. I tell you, I wish I would have had this for all my sons. Can I say something about categorizing on the computer? So I had just typed up my second book, bestseller status, becoming a best-selling author in the digital age, and then the computer crashed. Oh no. And I didn’t have it backed up. I had not emailed it to myself now. I have everything quadruple backed up email to myself, refresh, save redundancy. So what I do, I greed for about 15 minutes. I cried my eyes out and then I said, you know, what, if I don’t re type it, now I’m going to forget it. So I, that day I spent like 20 hours at the computer re typed it as much as I could when in that week and rewrote it and probably recaptured it at 98% and actually made it better. But it was going from memory. So always backup, backup, and double, triple backup.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:18):
That is something that if you ever experienced that, you will not forget that lesson. So only once you’ll only do it once. Another thing I do is I carry around a digital voice recorder app. Now on my phone, there’s one right here on my iPhone. I can record something. I can send it off to be transcribed. I get it back within a few minutes and I can drop that into my file. And so you can actually speak three times faster than you can, right? So I can convey more content through speaking than I can. Sometimes people are intimidated sitting at a computer and looking at a blank page. Like, what do I write? But they’re good at talking. So if you can talk, you can write a book,

Michael D. Butler (28:05):
Right? A lot of books that are stopped at a red light,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:08):
Any other advice you’d give to someone who’s writing a book,

Michael D. Butler (28:12):
Getting creative flow state, whatever it takes to get in creative flow, stay out of edit mode when you’re, when you’re in creative mode, leave the editing for the editors, because that kills creating mode. It really throws a kink in your brain, a monkey ranch in your brain, stay creative, go for a walk, get outside, move around. I’m one of these add writers. I can only write for like 15 minutes. I have friends like in Hollywood and the literary world that can literally sit there and write for four to eight hours and just write. And, and most people can’t do that. Most people certainly turn off the distractions, certainly turn off the notifications. If you’ve got kids, you know, get away. If you can’t. What I told people during the pandemic is if you can’t get away, get up early and get in your car and drive to a park or a Lake. Or if you can’t do that, just drive somewhere. But if you’re in your car, to me, that’s the best place. And I re I’m like you, I record audio. That is the number one way I record is I record video and audio and then have my team transcribe it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:08):
And then another thing I would say is make a daily habit of writing, write every single day. And so you don’t have to write for an hour or two hours a day, just set yourself a goal. I’m going to write 500 words a day, or I’m going to read a thousand words today, or just, I’m going to write

Michael D. Butler (29:27):
Paragraphs a muscle. It’s like going to the gym. And what’ll happen is you’ll start getting your ideas. As you walk into your office, they’ll start coming.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:33):
And so that daily discipline will eventually produce results. And so I made it a goal in my life to write every single day. And so some days I just type a few words. Other days I write several thousand words, but every single day I’m opening up my laptop. And for me, my best writing time is like right in the morning when I first wake up. So right before, right when I wake up, or if I take a nap in the middle of the day, I can get up and write really well. And so I set aside that time and try to make sure I get on my computer and do something. Even if it, even if I don’t know what to write on, even if it’s not good, at least once I get started, good stuff starts coming. That’s right.

Evangelism Podcast Host (30:11):
So writing can be hard work, but you take it. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:14):
Get it down on paper. Then you can hire people to help you edit it, to Polish it, to turn it into something beautiful. So I’d encourage you to write a book. Every minister needs to write a book and you probably need to write several. If God’s given you a message to speak, you need to put it in a book. And if you put it in a book, you need to give that book away to thousands of people so that they can hear what God has has. I’ll just say this to give us your best stuff. Don’t hold it back for the next book, because God will give you more fresh manna every day. And don’t fall into the perfection trap where you’re not going to publish it just because it’s not perfect. Listen, you’re always going to see a semi-colon where you should put a comma after it’s gone to print.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:52):
We all have that happen. No matter how many editors read through it, get it out to the world. That’s where it’s going to help people. And you can always do a second or third edition. So one more time. Give me that website about how to write a book, ensure a write book 60 days.com that’s w R I T E right book, the number six, zero days.com and your listeners will get access to it for free. It’s an eight module course taking you from napkin phase to publishing and going bestseller with that book. Well, thank you so much for your generosity to my listeners. Thank you for being on the evangelism podcast today. Thanks Daniel. I’m a big fan.

Evangelism Podcast Host (31:29):
Thanks so much for listening to the

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:30):
Evangelism podcast today. Could you do me a favor?

Evangelism Podcast Host (31:33):
Go find the evangelism

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:35):
Podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review and make sure you subscribe. So you don’t miss any of our exciting episodes

Evangelism Podcast Host (31:45):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

650 Million Christians are part of the Pentecostal-Charismatic-Holy Spirit Empowered Movement around the world. But where did Pentecostalism get started? Today we visit The Topeka Outpouring of 1901 that was led by Charles F. Parham.

On January 1, 1901 a thirty-year-old Bible school student named Agnes Ozman began to speak in tongues for the first time. Her experience was the beginning of the Pentecostal Outpouring at Bethel Bible School led by Holiness preacher Charles Fox Parham.

Websites:

http://www.drlarrymartin.org/ 

http://www.azusastreet.org/

https://www.pentecostalgold.com

Pentecostal Gold features sermons from R.W. Schambach, Aimee Semple McPherson, David Wilkerson, T.L. Osborn, Jimmy Swaggart, George O. Wood, and many others. It contains over 2000 sermons, 200 preachers, 40 topics, and 8 decades of Pentecostal ministry.

Check out The Evangelism Podcast with Evangelism Coach Daniel King

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
650 million Christians are part of the Pentecostal charismatic, Holy spirit empowered movement around the world. But where did Pentecostalism get started? Today we visit the Topeka outpouring of 1901 that was led by Charles F. Parham.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:18):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:57):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus and I also happen to be a Pentecostal preacher. And so I’m all I’m excited about introducing people to the Holy spirit and the origins of Pentecostalism go all the way back to 1901 that Topeka outpouring on January 1st, 1901, a 30 year old Bible student named Agnes Osman began to speak in tongues for the first time. Her experience was the beginning of the Pentecostal outpouring at Bethel Bible school led by holiness, preacher, Charles F. Parham. And today I have a Pentecostal historian with me, Larry Martin, Dr. Larry Martin. Thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

Larry Martin (01:49):
Yeah. Thank you, Daniel. It’s great to be with you today. Tell us

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:53):
A little bit about what happened and how the Holy spirit was poured out on that day. Back in 1901.

Larry Martin (02:02):
Okay. Daniel how much of the story do you want me to share the background?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:07):
Start at the beginning and just go for it. Share as much as you can.

Larry Martin (02:11):
It started with a hunger for God, Charles Parham had a real hunger for the things of the Lord so much so that he had gone on a trip all the way across the United States, visiting hotspots of revival. It had been to Zion, Illinois. He was in Chicago where D.L. Moody school was a visit. A.B. Simpson in New York had been up in Maine to Frank Sanford school. He was just hungry for the Lord and he came back to Topeka to start a ministry there. He had had a healing home and as things kind of fell apart at the healing home and he, he leased an old building on the outskirts of, of a Topeka that had been at one time, a mansion by a man named arrest to stone. And he called together a group of students to study the word of God. When we talk about it as a Bible school, most people have visions like a school like ORU or our Southwestern similar God university, where students are coming 18 and 20 years old, but Charles F. Parham’s students were mostly mature Christians.

Larry Martin (03:20):
They were people that had been in the ministry, some of them and others that were adults with families, and they really just came together to seek God. They spent 24 hours a day praying some people want, how do you pray? 24 hours a day? Well, they prayed in shifts. They had a prayer tower and the, and the top of the old mansion. And they would go up there two or three at a time. And those two or three would probably for a few hours and they would be relieved if someone else would go up there and pry in and continually, they were praying and seeking King. The Lord there are only textbook was the Bible. If you go to Bible college today, you’re going to study English, math history and sociologists psychology. They didn’t study anything, but the scripture, they didn’t even study theology.

Larry Martin (04:05):
They studied the Bible. And so 24 hours a day, all day long, they’re seeking God and looking for more of God and Charles Parham left his students for a season to go to Kansas city and preach. And he told him while he was gone, that they should study the book of acts and see if they could find in the book of acts, if there was some physical evidence to the baptism, the Holy Spirit. Well, I think probably parliament already drawn some conclusions about that. And it probably maybe while he was in Maine. Yeah, yeah. He come back and the students had studied the scripture. And from the scripture, they had concluded that in the book of acts, when people were baptized the Holy spirit, they spoke in tongues. And so they began to pray that God would baptize them in the Holy spirit, the way baptize people in the book of acts.

Larry Martin (04:54):
And this is really important, Daniel. And I think the listeners need to know this. The Pentecostal movement started as a group of people hungry to see a fulfillment of scripture. They were people looking for evidence from scripture today. We have people that seek manifestations and then after they receive a manifestation, they go to the scripture and try to find some place that, that manifestation might be evidence in scripture. The Pentecostal movement didn’t start that way. It started with people looking for the scripture and looking the manifestation and praying that they would receive that. And as you mentioned in the beginning of the podcast to own the, they had a new year’s Eve watch night service, everyone was seeking God and praying. And just after midnight, Agnes Osman asked Charles prom to pray for her, that she might receive the baptism of the Holy spirit. And she began to speak in tongues and she spoken other languages for four days. She couldn’t speak English for four days, four days and four nights. She spoke in tongues and that birth, the revival there in Topeka that eventually grew into the entire Pentecostal movement. I think that was a long explanation, but I hope it covered some of the things you wanted to hear.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:08):
And initially they thought that speaking in other tongues meant that you would speak in a known language and be able to become a missionary to, to China or to Africa. Is that true?

Larry Martin (06:25):
That’s absolutely true. That was Charles F. Parham’s vision that they could be filled with the Spirit and that it could be missionaries to go out. Wouldn’t have to learn the language. And as you know, Daniel, there are instances where that has happened. There are instances where people were in a situation where they didn’t communicate the language and they were able to preach one, one man, a disease. The street was thrown in jail for preaching the gospel. And there are a lot of Hispanics in the jail, Mexicans in the jail. He preached to him in Spanish, even though I didn’t know a word of Spanish, but by and large, we’ve come to realize that speaking in tongues is not a cheapest scape from learning a language to preach overseas. But they did believe that at the time,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
But it’s a, it’s a spiritual language that God can understand

Larry Martin (07:15):
Exactly what we speak to God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:17):
So then after that initial infilling of the Holy spirit on January 1st, 1901, what happened after that? To what, where did PRM go next? What, what happened? What did people say about this experience?

Larry Martin (07:35):
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a real interesting part of the story that a lot of people don’t know immediately there was national coverage to this revival. Reporters came from Cincinnati and Chicago and St. Louis covering the revival. It was a, it was a big, big blast, but that didn’t last par on thought, boy, this is it. The world’s going to turn to this new movement. He called it the apostolic faith, but it almost died out. Charles Parham had a child that was sick and he didn’t believe in doctors and I believed in healing and his child was sick and his child died. And that was a terrible blow to him. I mean, anyone that loses a child, it’s a terrible thing, but to lose a child when you’re trusting God for healing, it was, it was a terrible blow. And they lost the least on the mansion where they had the Bible school as you know, within a year, the old mansion burned down.

Larry Martin (08:34):
So Charles F. Parham was a man that lost his place of ministry. He really went into a time of deep introspection. He wrote a book during that period called a voice crying in the wilderness. And I, I think that’s exactly what he felt like a voice crying in the wilderness. And even Agnes Osman began doubt if it, maybe the experience was real. I mean, she had, she had had such a dynamic experience, but you know, the enemy will do anything. He can distill away the seed that God has planted. Later Agnes seismic became ordained. December’s a God minister. So she kept the faith, but she didn’t have a season of doubts. And as I said, it looked like maybe the movement was going to die. It became weaker and weaker. Charles F. Parham continued to preach. It ended up in Eldorado Springs, Missouri.

Larry Martin (09:24):
And there’s a, there’s a hot water spring. There, a lack, a lot of places in the U S back in the a hundred years ago, people thought these Springs had some kind of healing effect and they would build a hospitals. There are convalescent homes and people would come to those Springs. And a lady was coming to that spring every year, hoping to be healed. She had multiple things wrong with her. She was blind in one eye and half blind in the other. And she had all kinds of internal plumbing issues. She just, her husband thought she was going to die. He made her come back to the Springs, even though she didn’t want to. Her name was Mary Arthur and Mary Arthur heard Charles F. Parham preach. She went to his house. He prayed for I, I don’t understand that what he did, but somehow he put some kind of a compress on our eyes and prayed for her eyes that she could heal to be healed.

Larry Martin (10:16):
And she left that house and she’s had a child, whether I think a grandchild that was leading her home and the child run off in the house, kiddo flipped her off and she was lost there on the street. And she couldn’t see in her eyes were covered up. And she removed that compress from her eyes and she had perfect healing. She was totally healed. And she realized not only was her eyes healed, but her whole body was healed. Everything that was wrong with her was healed. And she went back to her home in Galena, Kansas invited trust prom to preach. And that’s where the Pentecostal revival really exploded people in that little four state area around there and the Oklahoma and Missouri and Kansas and Arkansas that began to come by the droves and hundreds of people came. Hundreds of people were stayed. Hundreds were baptized in the spring river out there. And from there, the movement went down into Texas and into Houston from Houston, went to Los Angeles from Los Angeles to the whole world.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:15):
One time you, you told me a little saying, you, you said that the Pentecostalism was born in Topeka. Tell me that saying, what, what did you say

Larry Martin (11:29):
Pentecostal movement was born into Topeka, crawled around in Kansas and Oklahoma and Missouri, and stood up on its feet in Texas and started walking when it got to Los Angeles, it ran around the world

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:42):
And now Pentecostalism is dynamic. There there’s millions of believers all over the world that speak in other tongues that believe in the empowering of the Holy spirit. And really Pentecostalism is, is one of the most dynamic fastest growing parts of Christianity today. And it all started there at the Topeka outpouring with Charles Parham. And so

Larry Martin (12:12):
One person, one person Daniel on January 1st, 1900, 120 years later, there’s estimated to be over 650 million. And it cost her charismatics around the world. The largest church in the world is a Pentecostal charismatic church. The largest church in Africa is a Pentecostal charismatic church, the largest church in Europe, the largest church in Asia, largest church in South America, largest church in Australia, largest church in the United States is a Pentecostal charismatic church. It is the greatest revival in the history of the Christian Church.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:47):
Amen. Well, I am privileged to be a part of it and just so thankful for the Holy spirit in his daily guidance and, and daily leading talk to me a little bit more about parliament in, in his theology, in his, his teaching, the, the early understandings of param that contributed to the Pentecostalism that we know today.

Larry Martin (13:11):
Well Charles Palm was a man that God used. He used him madly, but he was also a very flawed man. He, he was flawed in, in much of his theology people that look back on some of the poems theology think that maybe the open and cultural movement should be cursed, but it’s a great thing that within five years of the beginning of the movement, we had rided the course in some of that theology, but for example Parlin believed in British Israeli ism. He believed that that Anglo-Saxons were a special race. He, he believed in there was no eternal Hale, had some very strange ideas that had developed because, well, his father-in-law was a Quakers where he got the idea about hail, but he, he, he was a man hungry for God. And he was a man that God could use in spite of some of his falls. That would have been an encouragement, I think, to all of us, because there’s no perfect person among us. And if God could use a man like him to spark a revival that changes the world, maybe God could even use me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:22):
Amen. Well, God has used you Dr. Larry Martin, you’ve written books about param and about the Azusa street revival. You can find all of the information about Dr. Larry Martin at Dr. Larry martin.org. Thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast today and telling us about the Topeka outpouring of 1901, the Pentecostal origin story.

Larry Martin (14:50):
Thank Daniel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:52):
God bless you. Thanks so much for listening to this interview with Dr. Larry Martin. If you’ve enjoyed the evangelism podcast, could you do me a favor, go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review that review will help other people find the podcast and make sure that you subscribe because we’ve got some exciting interviews coming up

Evangelism Podcast Host (15:17):
Information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

In 1906, at 312 Azusa Street in Los Angelos, California an African-American preacher named William J. Seymour led the Azusa Street Revival. Thousands of people came seeking the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and from Azusa Street Pentecostalism and speaking in tongues spread around the world.

Key Quote: What God did on Azusa Street, He wants to do on every street. – Dr. Larry Martin

Websites:

http://www.drlarrymartin.org/ 

http://www.azusastreet.org/

https://www.pentecostalgold.com – Pentecostal Gold features sermons from R.W. Schambach, Aimee Semple McPherson, David Wilkerson, T.L. Osborn, Jimmy Swaggart, George O. Wood, and many others. It contains over 2000 sermons, 200 preachers, 40 topics, and 8 decades of Pentecostal ministry.

The Evangelism Podcast is Hosted by Daniel King, the Evangelism Coach

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
In 1906, revival broke out at Azusa street in Los Angeles, California. The revival was led by an African-American preacher named William J Seymour because of his anointing and his humbleness Pentecostalism. And speaking in tongues spread around the world. Today, we look at the life of William J Seymour, and we talk about how you can be filled with the power of the Holy spirit.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:28):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the event

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
Socialism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And I’m also excited about the Holy spirit and one of the key figures in church history in spreading the Holy spirit around the world was named William J Seymour. He started the Azusa street revival in Los Angeles back in 1906, at three 12 Azusa street. And thousands of people came to that revival seeking the experience of the baptism of the Holy spirit and from Azusa street, Pentecostalism and speaking in tongues spread around the world. And today I have with me a special guests, Dr. Larry Martin, who happens to be one of the world’s leading experts on the Azusa street revival. Dr. Martin, thank you for being with me today.

Larry Martin (02:00):
Thank you, Daniel. So I understand an expert understand the expert is defined as a former drip, but that’s okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:07):
All right. Well, glad, glad you’re here. So tell us the story of, of William J Seymour and how the Azusa street revival happened.

Larry Martin (02:20):
Yes, sir. Be my great pleasure, William. Seymour’s my favorite character from a history. I’ve studied a lot of history and a lot of Christian history, but I don’t know any man that compares to Seymour as far as his commitment to God and the humidity of his life. A man that lived a life without flaw, I think pretty much say Maura had an extremely difficult upbringing. He was born in the reconstruction South just 10 years after the end of the civil war. His parents had both been slaves both born in slavery. His mother was born on a plantation owned by a guy named Adelade Carlin, and it was a large plantation. She was just one of the many slaves there. And his dad had been a a soldier in the civil war. One of the first African American soldiers in the in the United States army.

Larry Martin (03:17):
They called it at that time, the United States colored troops his dad became ill while he was fighting in the war and a died from the illness. And so Seymour was raised in a widow’s home with a number of siblings and they were extremely poor. It’s hard to define poverty like they faced. They, the the government did a record, one time, an affidavit on their property and everything they owned was were 65 cents. It’s just impossible to imagine, but they had one bed and one match Christian, one table and one chair. And that was about the extent of their blown is 65 cents in value. Not only was he raised in extreme poverty, but he was raised in a time when there was a horrible, horrible persecution for African-Americans. The prejudice in the South at that time was so bad. There was a, a group nearby originated 10 miles from where Seymour lived called the knots of the white chameleon.

Larry Martin (04:15):
It was like the KKK, they were white robes and terrorized African-Americans. He had had a very difficult upbringing and childhood and poverty and oppression, and he left the South. As soon as he could. He went up North and to find better opportunities. And he became a waiter, worked in several large hotels in Chicago and St. Louis and in Indianapolis working at a hotel, what a Methodist church and found crashed his, his savior. It’s kinda hard to know is, is his background, spiritual background is re eclectic. His parents were married by a Methodist preacher. They a Christian, all of their children in the Catholic church, and they were buried in a Baptist cemetery. So it’s kind of hard to know what they were. But anyway, Seymour got saved at a Methodist church and soon thereafter, they had moved over to Cincinnati and he got smallpox.

Larry Martin (05:13):
It, there was a outbreak of smallpox across the river and Kentucky, and it spread into Cincinnati. And back then, that was almost a death sentence. And he was extremely ill and he made a commitment to God and said, Lord, if you’ll heal, my body I’ll preach the gospel and God did touch him. And healing men seem more committed to preach the gospel. Well, there are two other physical side effects to his smallpox. And one is, he had one of those POCs, only his app, and it blinded him in one. So he, he was a one ad man and also a scarred his face. And so he grew a beard. Every picture you ever see it, William Seymour wore a beard in this because of the smallpox scars. As far as his his, I, for someone who always likes to point out, if you have a sense of humor that God used a one ad man named Seymour waiting for the drum row.

Larry Martin (06:07):
But he left Cincinnati. He went out on a PIP preaching pilgrimage. We know he went through Jackson, Mississippi and ended up in Houston, Texas, and then Houston, his path crossed at Charles Parham. It was one of those divine moments because On January 1, 1901 a thirty-year-old Bible school student named Agnes Ozman began to speak in tongues for the first time. Charles Parham had established the Pentecostal movement in Topeka, Kansas, and now he’s preaching in Houston and see more hears him preach. And he attends a little Bible school, a little 12 week Bible school. That poems started in Houston and, and they’re preaching together on the streets. Parhem was preaching to white people see more preaching to black people because of the Jim Crow laws. At that time they had to segregate, but a lady heard Seymour preaching. She wanted him to come to Los Angeles and preach where she was from. She went back home and she told her pastor, her name was Julia Hutchinson.

Larry Martin (06:59):
If she could invite Seymour to come preach stun, February of Oh six, Seymour made a trip to California. Parham had raised some money for him on a train and they’d seem a little money. So I got to California, he got to Julia, Hetchins holding his church. And, and it really wasn’t much of a church. It was a tent with a wooden floor and he preached there on the Holy spirit baptism, and they didn’t like it. They locked him out of the church. So he finds himself in Los Angeles thousand miles from home and no money, no place to stay. A gentleman named Edward Lee, brought him into his house, let him stay with him. And see more joined a group of prayer. Warriors said two 14 Bonnie Brae street that we’re having home prayer meetings every night. And they began to pray for revival. And on April the sixth, 1906 this man, Edward Lee you know, you ask a historian what time it is, and they tell you how to build a watch. So if I get into too much detail, you can interrupt me. No,

Speaker 4 (08:01):
This is, this is great. I love the history.

Larry Martin (08:03):
Okay, well, let’s see more staying with Edward Lee and Edward Lee is a janitor at a bank. And he’s down in the basement of the bank, praying, asking God to touch him and baptize him in the Holy spirit. He came home and he said, I’m ready to receive the Holy spirit, because I know what it looks like. It’s hard for us to understand this, but these people had never seen anyone filled with the spirit. They’d never heard anyone speak in terms. They didn’t know what it was like. Even though Seymour was there preaching on the Baptist home spirit, he himself had not received the experience. And Edward Lee had had a vision while he was praying in the bank and saw the day of Pentecost. And he saw Peter and John received the baptism Holy spirit. He said, they started shaking under the power of God, started speaking in tongues and he was ready to receive that.

Larry Martin (08:49):
So they called a fast and they’re going to pray for 10 days and seek God for the Baptist, the Holy spirit, and anybody is listened to ever faster than all that. That’s a pretty difficult thing. I say the, the worst named thing in the English language is a fast, because there’s nothing longer than a faster, a 30 minute fastest is a lifetime. But on the third day, Edward Lee was sick from the fast, and he asked for the Seymour to pray for him. And when will you see more prayed for him? He received the baptism. The Holy spirit starts speaking of the times for those critics out there that say that speaking in tongues is just a learned behavior that they’ve seen someone else speak in tongues. And they copy that. Edward Lee had never seen anyone speak in tongues, excepted that vision William C. Moore, who prayed for them had never spoken in tongues.

Larry Martin (09:37):
But Edward Lee received the baptism, the Holy spirit. They walked over to Bonnie Brae street. They were already having their prayer meeting and they asked Edward Lee to testify as to what had happened. And when he testified, he began to speak in tongues. It was like a bomb bloat up in the house. I mean, the people were filled with the Holy ghost. They were singing, shouting people in the floor, scared to kids to death. The next day, there was a huge crowd in the street to hear what was going on. And brother Seymour preached to them from the street for several days, they had this outpouring at Bonnie Brae, and then they rented a little church on Azusa street. And as I say, the rest is history. The spirit of God came down there. And for years, every day they were touched by the spirit of God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:20):
So talk to me some about what happened there at Azusa street, they started having meetings and it was several times a day. Is that right? And went all week long.

Larry Martin (10:35):
That is correct. Daniel. They, they came in there. They didn’t have anything that we think is necessary for church. They didn’t have any pews. They just brought in mix-matched chairs and put boards across them. Nope.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:46):
Fog machines, no lights, no fog machines or lights, or,

Larry Martin (10:51):
Oh, not even electricity, you know, in the beginning, no lights, they didn’t have floor. So as they didn’t have carpet, they didn’t even have floor. They had a dirt floor in the building. They didn’t have a platform that didn’t have a pulpit. They didn’t have any musical instruments, but they had the spirit of God. And they would meet every day at 10 o’clock, 12 o’clock and seven o’clock met the 10 o’clock surface, never ended before the 12 o’clock service started. And the 12 o’clock service was still going at seven. So they were in church from 10 o’clock in the morning until after midnight, every day they did that seven days a week. They did that week after week, month after month, they could teach that schedule for, I guess, at least three years that they were having service just about all day long, but by the summer of 1906, this is a little built in, this is the street building was only 40 by 60, only 2,400 square feet.

Larry Martin (11:46):
But by the end of summer, 1200 people were attending those meetings and that small building, they would pack 700 people on the inside. And another 500 people be on the outside looking through the windows. They, they had such awesome experiences. Of course, people were saved. People were healed. They had phenomena called the, the the heavenly choir. And one person would start singing a song in the spirit and someone else would start the same melody on the other side of the room until several of them were singing. And they said, you could literally hear the angels singing along with them as they sang the songs of the spirit. It was such a Holy atmosphere. Daniel, it’s impossible to understand this today, but they wouldn’t even shake hands with each other. When they came in the building, they wouldn’t greet one another. They were afraid that would offend God.

Larry Martin (12:40):
They would go to the alter or go to the bench and there they’d kneel and seek the Lord. And it was, it was so, so blessed. And Holy brother Seymour would go upstairs to pray. If something got out of control or somebody was in the flash, the lead on the floor, pound on the floor and let them know they needed to come to order. They, they kept things decent in that order, somebody, I loved this. Somebody you get to testify and they’d get off, you know, you know how some people like to talk a lot to hear their own voice. They ratchet jaw and somebody say, that’s the flash brother. You better sit down, sit down. That’s the flash I’ve always wanted to do due to that, but never had the nerve, but we need that guy

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:23):
In some of our churches today. We need to start doing that.

Larry Martin (13:27):
Hey, Nita, we need a flesh stopper. Yeah, that was awesome.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:32):
So, so people started hearing about this and in visitors came from, from all over the world, and then they took Pentecostalism and this experience of the baptism of the Holy spirit, speaking in tongues back to the, the different nations. And, and that’s how Pentecostalism began to spread. And today over 650 million people claim to be Pentecostal claimed to be filled with the Holy spirit. So from Azusa street, this, this small 40 by 60 room now churches all over the world are being filled with the Holy spirit. So it’s, it’s wonderful to see what, what Jesus has done, what the Holy spirit is doing. What did some of the, the people of that time think about what was happening? There were some people who were excited about it, and then there were also critics w what was happening in the denominational churches and, and, and in the newspapers reporting on what was happening at Azusa street.

Larry Martin (14:42):
Yeah. Daniel and the series of books I published on Azusa street. I wanted to tell the complete is this the street story? So there’s one book that’s, but it’s called skeptics and sculptors, and it’s nothing, but the religious press the, the, the church was a fault Azusa street. So hard. One fella in Los Angeles, a leader of one of the denominations. I won’t say the name, but he said, if you, if you took a pebble and throw it into the ocean, it would have the same impact as the Azusa street revival. Boy, did he ever prophesied wrongly? And some of the, the cartoons and the, the hated statements it’s just it you’d have to read it to understand how vile and vicious it was. And then the newspapers came from the very first week, the newspaper came, the first newspaper article said wild scenes on Azusa street, a wordless gurgle by a sister. And, and so the press I, I got all of the articles from the Los Angeles newspapers for the first two to three years and put them into a book called the wild and weird. They, they came night after night and mostly criticized revival now

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:59):
Published the, the complete Azusa street library. And I have some of the volumes of that here, but how many volumes total it have you clicked 12 volumes and you’ve collected historical accounts, eye witness accounts, contemporary reports, everything that was happening then, and all those books can be found on your website, Azusa street.org, and also on your, your ministry website, Dr. Larry martin.org. And so if you’re interested in learning more about the Azusa street revival and encourage you to go and, and to look at those books and, and, and get them for your library. And there are probably people listening today that have never been filled with the Holy spirit, Dr. Larry, and they’ve never had the experience of, of speaking in tongues. Would you take off your historian hat and put on your revival hat and explain and minister how someone can be filled with the Holy spirit?

Larry Martin (17:08):
Yeah. Yes, sir. I would just love to do that. You know, at the zoo. So street revival, they put published a newspaper and testimonies and people would receive that newspaper. They’d pray over it. They’d receive that newspaper and be baptized in the Holy spirit, just from reading that newspaper. No one to pray for them. No one to lay hands on us. I want to tell people, listening that I don’t have to be there in person, Daniel King doesn’t have to be there in person. There has doesn’t have to be a pastor or a priest. All you have to do is be hungry. And the Lord said he would fill you with his spirit. Jesus said that he would send us another comforter, the spirit of truth that the world couldn’t receive. And if you want to receive the baptism of Holy spirit, all you have to do is open your heart to God, ask God to fill you with the Holy spirit, be sincere and ask God to fill you with the Holy spirit. And even as we’re speaking right now, the Holy spirit can come on you and fill you with his Maddie power. I was baptized in the Holy spirit when I was a youth camp when I was 14 years old. And it is totally changed my entire life. He’s been with me every day of my life. And you need the baptism of Holy spirit and you can receive today.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:20):
How can I receive Dr. Martin?

Larry Martin (18:24):
Well, could you pray? I’d like to pray for those people to receive. I’d like to ask you just to, if you’re wanting to receive, I’d like to ask you just to open your heart. You don’t have to, God knows you’re hungry. You don’t have to beg him. He wants you to receive. It’s a free gift. We’re going to pray that you’ll receive right now, father, I come into agreement with my friend Daniel King right now, and we pray for any person listening to this podcast that has not received the Baptist, the Holy spirit. And we pray that right now, the Holy spirit will settle on them. We pray Lord that they will just yield themselves completely for you, Lord, without fear, they will yield themselves completely to you. And I pray that your Holy spirit will come take possession of their body. Lord, take possession of their tongue, feel them Lord and give them a new language that they can pray with a new language and communicate with you in a more and better powerful way. Lord use them after you fill them with the spirit, use them to be witnesses for you. As you promised us in your name, Lord, we pray. Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:29):
Amen. It’s always so exciting when people are filled with the Holy spirit. Just a couple of years ago, I was in Ethiopia. We had a big crowd of people over 50,000 people, and it was a five day crusade. So on the fourth night it was Holy spirit night. And so we talked about the Holy spirit and we talked about how the Holy spirit can be poured out upon those who are hungry and thirsty for his presence. And we had an assembly of God, pastor from, from ADIs Abba, who, who came and shared his testimony of how he was filled with the Holy spirit. And then we prayed for the Holy spirit to come. And in a moment, the Holy spirit came upon that crowd and 50,000 people. It sounded like almost all of them began to speak in other tongues at the same time.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:24):
And it was like the day of Pentecost. It sounded like a mighty rushing wind, just the, the sound of everyone praying in tongues and in calling out to God. And the miracles that we saw that tonight were just so tremendous what God did there. And it’s amazing how the Holy spirit loves to pour himself out upon people. And he, he, he brings a change and people’s lives that I know in my life. I rely on the Holy spirit when I’m confused or not knowing what to do. I, I spend some time praying in tongues showed up. [inaudible]

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:04):
I just began praying in tongues and, and the Holy spirit begins to, to, to speak to me. I speak to God and my prayer language and the Holy spirit begins to speak to me. And, and God gives me direction, gives me clarity, gives me guidance. And so the Holy spirit is our helper. He’s our comforter, he’s our teacher. He wants to be with you. He wants to be in you. He wants to, to come out of you and help other people. And, and so I, I believe that the Holy spirit is available to every single believer that that wants to be filled with the Holy spirit. If you’ll cry out to God and say, God baptize me in the Holy spirit, fill me with the Holy spirit. He will pour out his spirit upon. You will give you the gift of speaking in tongues and, and the other gifts of the Holy spirit, a word of wisdom, words of knowledge gifts of faith, gifts of healing. And so we need the Holy spirit in the church today. We don’t want a church that is just a boring, old sermons, just teaching. We need an outpouring of the Holy spirit to keep the church alive and awake and witnessing and full of boldness to tell other people about Jesus. So sorry, I jumped into preaching mode there a little bit, but we need the Holy spirit in our churches today. Amen.

Larry Martin (22:33):
Hey man, when you were talking about that episode on that field, you know, Daniel, there’s some people that don’t understand why we do what we do. I mean, the traveling is, eh, there’s just a very short season that it’s, that it’s a exotic, and then it just becomes grueling. And you sat on a plane for hours and hours and you spend months raising money for a crusade and, and people don’t understand, but if they stood with you on that field and felt what you felt when the Holy spirit fell on that crowd of 50,000 people, everyone in the world would want to go. And I want to say, Daniel, thank you for going. I want to stay. Thank you for helping me to, to in influencing my life, to reach other people for Christ. I thank you for the blessing that you’ve been to me and to anyone listening to this podcast, if they’re not helping you supporting you, this is a young man that’s willing to go and preach the gospel to all the world, willing to reach, not the field. He would reach the few, but his vision is to reach the millions for Christ. And I want you to partner with Daniel and helping, and this great work that he’s doing, what God did at Azusa street, God wants to do on every street. God wants to do it on your street. And he’s using men like

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
Daniel King to do that. Well, thank you so much for your kind words, Dr. Martin, it’s a wonderful privilege to have you on the evangelism podcast. Thank you for joining me today. And man, thank you, Daniel. Thanks so much for listening to this interview with Dr. Larry Martin. If you’ve enjoyed the evangelism podcast, could you do me a favor, go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review that review will help other people find the podcast and make sure that you subscribe because we’ve got some exciting interviews coming up

Evangelism Podcast Host (24:25):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Dr. Larry Martin has given 49 years to gospel ministry and has traveled to over sixty nations. He has spent almost twenty-five years pastoring churches in Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, and Tennessee. While still in his teens, Martin launched his ministry career as a traveling evangelist. He returned to evangelism in 1997 and has continued in that work for most of the last 20 years. He is a church historian with expertise in the origins of Pentecostalism with a particular emphasis on the revival at Azusa Street.

Websites:

http://www.drlarrymartin.org/ 

http://www.azusastreet.org/

https://www.pentecostalgold.com – Pentecostal Gold features sermons from R.W. Schambach, Aimee Semple McPherson, David Wilkerson, T.L. Osborn, Jimmy Swaggart, George O. Wood, and many others. It contains over 2000 sermons, 200 preachers, 40 topics, and 8 decades of Pentecostal ministry.

Transcript:  

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Dr. Larry Martin has been in ministry for over 50 years. He’s been a revivalist, a pastor, an evangelist, and he’s a Pentecostal historian. I’m excited to hear what he has to say about the Holy spirit.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:16):
Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:53):
The evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest, Dr. Larry Martin. He has been in ministry over almost 50 years. He’s traveled to over 60 nations. He spent 25 years, pastoring churches and Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, and Tennessee. And while he was still in his teens, he launched out as a traveling evangelist and then he returned to evangelism in 1997. And he’s continued that for the last 20 plus years. Dr. Larry Martin is a church historian with expertise in the origins of Pentecostalism with a particular emphasis on the revival at Azusa street. Dr. Martin, thank you so much for joining me today.

Larry Martin (01:42):
Thank you, Daniel. It’s great to be with you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:44):
Well, let’s start at the point where we met it was in Ethiopia. I was there to do a great gospel crusade with my friend pear Rockfest and you are friends with brother pear as well. And we got to know one another. Do you remember that?

Larry Martin (02:06):
Yes, sir. So very well. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:09):
And, and so we had a wonderful time that week. Thousands of people gave their, their lives to Jesus. And you told me about your, your dream of doing large crusades and you never done large crusades before. And and we had a conversation. Can you kind of tell me about that conversation and, and what came out of it?

Larry Martin (02:35):
Oh, absolutely love to. First of all, it was such a pleasure Daniel to meet you and be part of that great gospel festival that you hosted there. I had came to Ethiopia the previous year to work with pear and teach it his Bible school. And he invited me to come back the next year, I came back and taught in the school for a week and was doing evangelism in local churches. And you guys were coming for the crusade and Perry invited me to kind of tag along and carry the bags. As it ended up, you carried about bags up several flight of stairs one day. And I, I still am grateful for that, but we enjoyed the meeting and there was just something in my heart that I I’d, I’d always thought it dreamed of preaching and, and great meetings like that.

Larry Martin (03:24):
And didn’t know exactly how to get my foot in the door or what was the first step. And so after the meeting, we met in the cafe at the hotel where we were staying in and I asked you how you did it. And, and I said, do you have big sponsors? Do you have someone that’s paying for this? And you said, well, every time we have a meeting, we just trust God and God provides. And that was such an amazing faith statement to me. I thought, well, if, if Daniel King can do that, I’ve been preaching all these years. I believe I could trust God to do that. And you are such a blessing inspiration to me, Daniel. And the next year we scheduled a crusade at that time. It cost us $20,000. That was a huge amount of money for us to raise back.

Larry Martin (04:09):
God provided. And we stepped out by faith and the money came in. We did the crusade and we’ve been doing crusades ever since. And I just wanted to say, thank you to you for being so kind to us and hospitable and generous. And not only did you inspire me to have faith, to trust God for crusades, but at that table, you gave me copies of every book that you had written the digital copies of how to raise money and how to do crusades. And I just appreciate your spirit, man. You’re, you’re a great young man and your followers here need to know what a, what a fine young man Daniel King is and what a great work you’re doing for God. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
Well, thank you so much. I’m just so delighted with, with what God has been doing through your ministry in, in starting to do crusades. Since that time, approximately how many crusades have you been able to do? You, you started out doing just one a year and then you bumped it up and started to doing more than one a year. So how many different crusades have you done so far?

Larry Martin (05:10):
We’ve done. I think eight crusades in Ethiopia and one in Brazil, we were scheduled to do three crusades in 2020, but of course with COVID we did we actually were going to do four, three big crusades in one small, and we ended up, we got to do the Ethiopia crusade in January, and then March. I went to me and Mar for a smaller crusade there in a church. And that’s when COVID stopped everything and kind of grounded us. So we’re looking forward to getting back out there this year.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:40):
It will come and your crusades will be bigger and better than ever before. I believe that even God, for that, the name of your ministry is a river of revival ministries. And so you have a great love for revival and revival preaching and churches all over the United States. And, and you’ve published quite a few books about revival. You’ve published books by Leonard Ravenhill by Winkie Pratney. And about the, the Azusa street revival about William Seymour. Talk to me a little bit about revival and why it’s so important to have revival in the church.

Larry Martin (06:21):
Well you know, if somebody’s walking through the airport and they have a heart attack or their heart stops beating, the first thing that someone’s going to do is look for a defibrillator that they can come and shock that person back to life. And I think that’s kind of the, one of the roles of revival is, and I don’t want to say the church is dead, but the church does go through seasons where they become lax and complacent where they become a spiritually eel and a revivalist is a lack that defibrillator that shocks the church back to life and brings a new vitality and new, new faith that I think there’s nothing more important in the life of the church than periodical seasons of revival when God sends refreshing from Ohio and, and recharges the church, we need a great nationwide revival in America today.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:16):
Yeah. Talk, talk to me a little bit about that because as we record this, we just went through an election and then the, the inauguration of our new president, Joe Biden, and a lot of people are, are concerned about where America is as a nation. What do you do you think God wants to do in our nation, in the church?

Larry Martin (07:41):
Well, I think I know what God wants to do. God always wants to, to revive the church. He always wants the church to have a evangelism focus, reaching the lost and a disciple ship, focus, strengthening believers. God’s part is not hard to define. It’s getting us in, in step with God’s program, getting us in step with what God wants is really the answer. God would love to send a great revival to America, and I pray that he will. And you know, by faith, I believe that a revival is coming, but there’s two elements of revival and the, and God’s part is always wonderful and perfect, and he’s always ready, but man’s part, sometimes it’s weakened and Leonard Ravenhill off and said, the reason we didn’t have revivals, cause we didn’t want it bad enough. And I think when the church really gets a burger to see God move and really gets a burden to pray that we will see that visitation in America. I’m sure believing God for that.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:40):
Yeah. You mentioned Leonard Ravenhill and I have several books, which you’ve given me that you’ve published from Leonard Ravenhill. How, how did you get permission to publish books

Larry Martin (08:56):
At that point? Daniel the books were out of print and the publishing company was not printing those books. And so I wrote them and asked permission to make them available through our ministry. And they granted that to me the, at this time that the publishers actually have given that permission back to brother Raven Hill’s family. And so I’m not able to publish those anymore, but I was very thankful for the opportunity to share those while they were out of print.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:26):
Talk to me more about revival. You’ve been a student or revival you’ve experienced revival. You, you, you go to churches and, and re preach revival. What are some of the elements that that happen when revival comes?

Larry Martin (09:45):
Sure. you know, people will ask the question, what’s the secret to revival and I tell them, God doesn’t deal in secrets. He deals in revelations. It’s just a matter of finding what God has said about it. And when God does sin revival, some of the things that happens, of course, there’s always a disruption. God disrupts evil a disrupts complacency. He disrupts the sleepiness in the church and the devil always gets mad when you have revival. That’s I always tell people that I believe that the initial physical evidence of baptism, the Holy spirit is, is tongues, but the real evidence is troubled because when you get on fire for God, the devil is going to attack you. And a sign of revival is when, when the enemy comes against the church and another sign of revival is maybe the greatest sign of revival.

Larry Martin (10:37):
The church is repentance. If there is no repentance, there will be no revival. If there’s a little repentance, you might have a little revival, but when there’s, when there is great repentance, there is great revival. I, I wrote a little acrostic for revival and the, the lenders in revival R stands for repentance and East stands for everyday repentance. And B stands for very repented and asked stands for immediate repentance and B the second least has for very, very repented and the, the A is for always repentant and the L is for lasting repentance. And that, that is what happens when you have revival, the church repents. And then of course their signs and wonders miracles that take place. When you have revival, people receive the baptism, the Holy spirit, and the greatest of all is people are saved. There’s no real revival until the lost are brought to Christ.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:30):
I, I see a pattern there. And in your acrostic for revival, it seems that repentance is an important part of revival. Talk to me a little bit about repentance. How does someone repent? How does revival bring repentance?

Larry Martin (11:47):
I think in in normal church life, we, we get very careless. I use this example sometime Daniel I had a friend that was remodeling in his bathroom. And when he got ready to paint a wall that he’d been working on and he was going to paint it white because the rest of the bathroom was white. And when he painted the wall wide, he found out the rest of the bathroom, wasn’t white, it was off white. And so it didn’t match, but he thought it was white all the time until he compared it to white. And when the Holy Spirit begins to move and the Holy Spirit begins to deal in people’s heart, he begins to reveal things to them that they thought were okay, you know what I’m I’m okay. You’re okay. Everybody’s okay. But you really get in the presence of God. And your lack Isaiah was when he saw the Lord and said, man, I I’m unclean. And I live in a land of uncleaned people. And when we see ourselves, as God sees us, that brings us to a place of repentance where we, we seek God to purify our hearts and make us more like him.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:47):
You are also a Pentecostal historian, you’ve studied church history. And one of the things I really love about your ministry, you, you have a website called Pentecostal gold.com. And on that website, you have a sermons from some of the greatest Pentecostal preachers from the last 80 years. You’ve got RW, Schambach, Amy simple McPherson, David Wilkerson, TL Osborn, Jimmy Swagget, George O. Wood and many others tell me a little bit about Pentecostal golden and how you started that. The website,

Larry Martin (13:29):
I just got a vision, I guess it’s been seven, eight years ago now that it would be a wonderful thing. I, I had collected these cassette tapes all my life throughout all my ministry had boxes of them. And I thought, well, if we could just share these with people and found a little recorder to digitalize those and started putting one or two up, and now I’ve got almost 2,400 sermons up. I put three sermons up this morning by Dr. Daniel T Schaffer. Did you know Dr. Shaffer from Oklahoma city? Never heard of him. Great pastor pastored, crossroads cathedral in Oklahoma city at church seated about 5,000 people. And I put three of Dr. Dan’s sermons up there today. Yesterday. I put some sermons up by BH Clendenin while I’m pretty well stationed at home because of COVID. I’ve been spending a lot of time building this website and I just pray. It’s a blessing to the body of Christ when I’m, when I’m gone. And you know, I’m, I’m 68 years old when I’m gone. I want this website to continue to minister to the bodily of grass, for generations to come.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:36):
And I think future generations need to hear the Pentecostal fire that came across in the Holy roller generation. Sometimes we don’t hear that type of preaching that much anymore, but we still need that same fire of the Holy spirit. What are some of your, your favorite preachers and your, your favorite sermons on the website? What’s really ministered to you personally?

Larry Martin (15:04):
Every one of them. I, no, that’s not a fair answer. My, my favorite sermon on the website is in 1969. My pastor took me to the general council, the SIM as a God. I was just a teenager and Jimmy Swaggart preached that night. And it was the greatest sermon I ever heard. If you can imagine at a general council, the same as the guy, the power of God came down and people, one guy was running around the building, shouting. It was quite amazing. And that sermon was unavailable for many years. I bought a copy of it on an old reel to reel tape. And I couldn’t get access to that, but I contacted the Springfield Missouri. They didn’t have a copy of the sermon brothers Schrager didn’t have a copy of it, but I finally found that old tape that I bought back in the sixties and digitalize it. And it’s called, there is a remedy. That’s one of my favorites. The other, I guess my second favorite sermon on the website is one that David Wilkerson preached it’s called the gospel of accommodation. And if there was ever a prophetic word preached to the, to the Pentecostal movement, that is a tremendous word, the gospel of accommodation. And you know, of course the brothers sham box messages and AA Allen, I just they’re just wonderful.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:21):
Your ministry has published a lot of historical documents from various revivals in the past. And so one of your books is called the Topeka outpouring of, of 1901. And then you have a whole stack of books about the Azusa street revival that happened in the early 19 hundreds and the spread Pentecostalism around the world. You’ve got books from your own experiences and, and also from the great Welsh revival. If someone wants to get a hold of, of some of your books, what’s the best way for them to order some books.

Larry Martin (17:01):
All, all the books are available on Amazon Daniel, but they’re also available through our websites. I would suggest that Azusa street.org, the bookstore there has all the books available on it. Thank you for mentioning that. Yeah.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:16):
Yeah. And if a pastor wants to invite you to come and have a revival in his church, or if someone wants to support one of your crusades and help send you to the world, how can they find you?

Larry Martin (17:32):
That would be the best way for that. It’s Dr. Larry martin.org. That’s our, our ministry website. Sometimes you get a note from a pastor and he’ll say, what does it take to bring you to our church? And I will answer an invitation and we don’t, we don’t have any requirements. We just love to go preach the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:52):
Well, that’s a wonderful attitude to have. How many years have you been traveling and preaching the gospel?

Larry Martin (18:00):
From the first time that I preached, it’s been 54 years.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:04):
That’s amazing. What, what a tremendous legacy you have what you’ve been doing this a long time and many of our listeners are preachers evangelists who are just getting started in ministry. What advice would you give to a young minister? Who’s just starting out about longevity in ministry.

Larry Martin (18:32):
I think well, that’s a, that’s a tough question. I think the first thing is to be sure of your call. You know, the Lord spoke to me, I would say youth camp and I never dreamed I was going to be a preacher. Never dreamed it. I, I thought maybe I would be an archeologist. You know, I love history and, and dinosaurs and all these things and sitting in a youth camp and God, the, the, the speaker was Dr. George Brazel. You can hear him open it calls to go. But Dr. Braswell said to all of you that are called to the ministry, I want you to come to the front and immediately, God just tapped me on the shoulder and said, that’s you, I want you to preach the gospel. And I went up that night and surrendered to preaching. And that calling was so sure, you know, Daniel and 50 plus years, I’ve been through some stuff.

Larry Martin (19:20):
And now I’ll tell you a lot of it was tough. I’ve had great blessings, wonderful, blessed things, but I’ve been through some tough stuff. And that call is the thing that’s kept me steady. I, I there’s times that I’d like to have quit, but there’s never been a single time that I doubted that God called me to the ministry. And that’s been, the anchor for me is to stay steadfast. And of course, you know, the, the, the everybody should know is the time you spend with the Lord and prayer, and then reading the word of God. Those are the things that carry you through the difficult times.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:56):
Thank you so much, Dr. Larry Martin, it’s wonderful to have you as a guest on, on the evangelism podcast. Love you love your ministry and everything that you are doing for Jesus. Thank you.

Larry Martin (20:11):
We love you, Daniel. Thank you for allowing me to be here today.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:15):
Thanks so much for listening to this interview with Dr. Larry Martin. If you’ve enjoyed the evangelism podcast, could you do me a favor, go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review that review will help other people find the podcast and make sure that you subscribe because we’ve got some exciting interviews coming up

Evangelism Podcast Host (20:39):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Eric Smith was the crusade director for R. W. Schambach and he ran the ministry of Evangelist Steve Hill. Now he helps hundreds of ministries with marketing, fundraising, and media exposure. Today, you will learn what happens behind the scenes to make a ministry successful.

Eric Smith leads Smith Media Group, a marketing company that makes ministry its business. He promotes ministries and helps preachers to massively increase the number of people they are able to reach with their message.

Smith Media Group is proud to support Christian-run organizations globally. They are a one-stop shop for graphic and web design, branding, marketing, media exposure and fundraising. Their clients have included Perry Stone, Christ for All Nations, Oral Roberts University, Daystar, Joyce Myer, Robb Thompson, and many others.

Here are some of the services Smith Media Group Offers: 

Targeted Ad Campaigns

Live Streaming

Direct Mail

Web Design

Speaker Management

Social Media Marketing

Media Buys

Donor Development

Video Production

Ghost Writing and Book Promotion

Website: http://smithmediagroup.com/

Read the Lead Magazine: https://readleadmag.com/

For Evangelism Coaching, listen to The Evangelism Podcast

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Eric Smith was a crusade director for RW Schambach and he ran the ministry of evangelist Steve Hill. Now he helps hundreds of ministries with marketing fundraising and media exposure. Today you’ll learn what happens behind the scenes to make a ministry successful. Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a great guest. His name is Eric Smith and Eric leads the Smith media group, a marketing company that makes ministry its business. And so he helps to promote ministries and helps preachers to massively increase the number of people that they’re able to reach with their message. So brother, Eric, thank you so much for joining me today.

Eric Smith (01:28):
Thank you so much, Daniel. Appreciate the time looking forward to just to get a chance to share about all the main things God can help anybody to do to get the message of the gospel around the world.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:38):
Well, let’s start at the beginning. When you were first starting out, you were the crusade director for the great evangelist, R. W. Schambach. And I remember when I was just a little kid, my dad took me to one of RW, Sean box tent crusades in Detroit, Michigan, right in the inner city. There were so many miracles and signs and wonders. He was such a dynamic preacher. And you were helping RW Schambach to set up his events all over the United States.

Eric Smith (02:05):
Yeah, that was I cut my teeth my full time. First time ministry event with working with a full-time minister was brother R. W. Schambach and I got saved in a small assembly, got church in upstate New York. You know, and our associate pastor it was, it was in December. He got church for, for just a season. We became good close friends, long story short. He eventually starts working for brother R. W. Schambach. I was electrician by trade. Brother R. W. Schambach was starting his first tanker say in many years, because he had suffered from a heart congestive heart failure. And his tent crew had just had dissembled and his crews had dissembled. So he was ready. He was back to, you know, back in 90, 1995, he was ready to start preaching the gospel under that big gospel tent and pull the nets in.

Eric Smith (02:48):
And they had no electrician. They had no sound system. They were launching on the Friday. I got a call on a Monday night from my friend about 10:00 PM saying, Eric, Hey, how you doing? I’m doing great. How are you doing? And we began to talk a little bit, say, listen, I’m calling you because brother R. W. Schambach has need of you, sir. I was like, wow, well, what’s he Anita? He said, well, explain the situation. We’re here in Baltimore. We don’t, we have, our tent is going up. It’s not up yet. We’re behind schedule. We have no electrician. I don’t know what to who to call. I know your electrician, Eric, would you prayerfully consider coming down and helping us out? So I spoke to my wife about this. We listen to brother Schambach on radio. That 15 minute broadcast was powerful every single day.

Eric Smith (03:26):
And I talked to him, I said, look, I want to do it. So went to Baltimore, was on a plane the next day at 6:00 AM got to Baltimore and worked about 48 hours straight. Got the electric put up the generators, put in, got the sound system in. And we did TV live that first night and the very next day unbeknownst to myself. Oh, there’s some, I sat down said, son, thank you so much. I like to hire you. And that’s how I got into full-time ministry. And what an honor and a privilege I worked basically doing anything initially and and within six months, but somebody set me aside, says, son, I seen the way you handle it. Talk to people and pastors, I just love the representation who you are and what you’re about.

Eric Smith (04:06):
I wish to be a crusade director and then chills went down my spine. Oh my goodness. So tell me about brother Schambach like I’ve never done such a thing, you know, what does that entail? You don’t worry. So, and you can handle it. That’s about what I got. And and they said here here’s the schedule. So from that point on Daniel, I was responsible for a multi-million dollar budget, you know, a staff of 40, 50 people. And I was the one responsible filling up arenas, Madison square garden. So think those big tenant Rita’s getting churches on board. So it was baptism by fire, but you know what? It was the greatest experience in my life. Brother R. W. Schambach and his wife, sister soundbite became like a mom and a father to my wife and I, we traveled with them everywhere, everywhere they went. And we just, we constantly planned meetings. And then we drove brother R. W. Schambach many times from, from Texas to California or Florida. Meanwhile, I’m on the phone and, and making phone calls and putting logistics together. But you know, what a privilege it was to serve him tens of thousands would come to Christ in those States. One of the greatest advantages of the tools I have ever seen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:05):
Yeah. I loved hearing RW. Schambach preaching. He’d always say you don’t have any problems. All you need is faith in God. And that that saying has sustained me because sometimes in ministry, you, you face problems or you think you’re facing problems, but if you keep your faith in God, he will work things out. So, so then after you were working with, with Schambach, you also helped Steve Hill, the evangelist from the Brownsville revival who had such a tremendous impact in, in Brownsville, and then in other parts of the world.

Eric Smith (05:40):
Yeah, it was again, what an honor and privilege to get to that. Sometimes I pitched myself the privilege we’ve had to help serve. It’d be the armor bearers, the air and the earth for these, these, these wonderful men of God. Yes, Steve Steve reached out to me when I was working for brother Schambach and of course I was very familiar. The, with revival over 5 million people went through that church in Pensacola, Florida. I think it represented like 162 nations Kings princesses. Senators went through there. There was just, the impact was amazing. And Steve wanted to take that message across America and really around the world. And that’s when he reached out to me. And you know, what a privilege I’ll tell you, Steve was such a pure evangelist for the semi course, great preacher, pull the nets and see miracles, you know, just, you would see miracles, they just make your head spin under brother R. W. Schambach’s tent.

Eric Smith (06:25):
And he services. Steve was just like, it’s all about souls, Eric, let’s go after to associate would just start crying. We start talking about souls and what a pure evangelists. I, I can, I can think of several crusades where, you know, we’d be in Riga. I was whispered Steve film, Riga. And when he gave an altar call, it wasn’t like people would have, you know, scratch your head, make a decision, I’d go down. And sort of Steve was so passionate. I mean, bands be popping. I was Dick. You need to be saved, run down that aisle. And people literally would sprint down the aisle, almost a point where they almost crashed into the platform. They couldn’t stop in time. It was just amazing. And I mean, thousands upon thousands of people would come to Christ in those services and what a privilege it was to serve brother Steve, and for 12 years, and be his crusade director and help him out with just, just all the structure when it comes to a multi-million dollar budget. And of course, facilitating crusades. And his schedule was, you know, brother R. W. Schambach. I travel about 200 days out of the year with him, with Steve. I was traveling about 250 to 275 days out of the year. So it was just a crazy pace, but, you know, he said, Eric, it’s a short season. We’ve got to go after souls. We’ve got to do it. So what a privilege to serve those two powerful men of God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:36):
Yeah. I’m so amazed at both R. W. Schambachand Steve Hill, how their fruit continues to this day, I’ve met so many people whose lives were impacted by them and, and they are passionate about soul-winning because of Steve Hill’s passion. And so it’s just so, so amazing. Who are some of the other ministries that you’ve been able to help over the years?

Eric Smith (07:57):
No, we’ve been privileged to help hundreds of ministries, Daniel. I mean as you’re, you’re very familiar with CFAN brother Bonnke, we’ve had a chance to do several things. Your brother Bonnke you know loved his heart loved Daniel Kolenda, what Daniel is doing right now. I know you’ve done crusades with brother Kolinda as well. You know, we’ve done things with Joyce Meyers, Perry, stone you know, feed the children, just multiple other ministries. We’ve we just, you know, I, I just I thank the Lord because you know, there’s seven and a half billion people on the face of the earth. And I just, sometimes I’m amazed that people contact us, Eric lists, I’ve heard what you guys are doing. We want your help, you know, and you know, to me, it’s all about. So as the Bible says, he who wins souls is wise and what we want to do and God’s helped us is to create some strategies and ways that we can get the message out the door.

Eric Smith (08:41):
We can help facilitate ministry opportunities for literally hundreds of ministries on a weekly basis, typically on a non COVID year on a week of basis, we administer taking place. I’m usually four continents of the earth every single week. And so when I, my head down the pillow each night after working 16 hour days you know, I, I can rest at ease knowing, you know what, today we saw 37,000 people come to Christ and the next day, 24,000. And, you know, I want to take millions upon millions to happen with us. Cause that’s what it’s all about.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:10):
Amen. Let’s talk a little bit about the nuts and bolts of what you do and what you do I think is so valuable for ministries and, and for evangelists. Often people may be gifted in being on the platform, but then the organization, the behind the scenes, they need other people to come alongside them to help. And it sounds like, like you’re the type of person who really helps put people on platforms so that the anointing can, can really begin to flow out of their lives. And so your, your website says that the Smith media group is a one-stop shop for graphic and web design branding, marketing media exposure in fundraising. Can you talk a little bit about why all those things are important for a ministry to have? What, why should someone who’s in ministry care about graphics and web design and marketing? What, why is that important?

Eric Smith (10:10):
Well, it’s important for lots of reasons. You know, obviously you know, as, as an evangelist of yourself or, or other ministries, I have a compelling to go all the world preach the gospel. And I would say, of course, every evangelists has a heart, right? That’s, that’s the idea. We want to get you in churches, in front of lots of people. So you can pull the nets on a nightly basis, but we also have lots of pastors that have that same commission. They say, you know what, Eric, I love my church. That’s why that’s my first loves that. But I also want to go into all the word, preach the gospel, but you know, people don’t want to bring you in, unless they have a little understanding who you’re about. And that’s where graphics come into play. That’s where a website that represents you well comes into play because usually when a church looks to bring a speaker in, they look through several different layers, they go to a website, they want to see does this website talk about this ministry?

Eric Smith (10:54):
Do I have some videos I can watch? You know I, then they’ll go from, from a website oftentimes to social media, let me see what this guy’s posting. You know, let me see, you know, the content there. If you have a live stream or a webinar process or or a promo video, that’s huge because a pastor that brings an evangelist or a minister in, they want to get an idea of what to expect, what the posit will you leave? Well, I bring her to my church, so where that’s, where marketing and branding and these, these, these, these resources and assets that you can create to any ministry can create themselves and should have on their platforms is so important because it answers all the who, what, when and why, and a pastor, you know, they’re busy people again, the bigger the church gets, the more busy they get. They want, they want to know if there’s a minister, I should consider bringing my church. You know, I, I want to be able to look at something quickly to get an understanding what to expect and those, those, those assets, the website, the social media, the promo videos the live stream, the webinars you know, all those kinds of things play a big part in helping those people make decisions. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:56):
So let’s go through some of the things that your, your website says that you guys do, and, and, and I’ll just fire them off in and you tell briefly what it is and why it would help a ministry. So the first thing is like targeted ad campaigns. What’s that?

Eric Smith (12:12):
Yeah. That’s where, you know, nowadays people are very familiar with social media, right? With analytics on Facebook and those kinds of things. Well, you know, w with targeted ad campaigns right now, we’ve created algorithms now where our ministry, it can be so specific. For example everyone’s familiar with terrestrial TV or linear television. That’s if you’re on spectrum Comcast cable, you put commercials, you put a broadcast on. Well, we now have through set top box is the ability to track people’s tendencies. So I can be so specific when a ministry says, listen, I’m coming to Tulsa, Oklahoma. I want to do an event at this, at this convention center. I like to share with Christians I’m coming to town. So we can through 4,000 different keywords. We can now go through algorithms and we can pinpoint where people can be targeted. So they can be a part of event.

Eric Smith (12:59):
They can be part of a crusade. They can be part of a, of a church meeting. And then it’s not just through TV, but it’s also through website. So now, if you go to, for example, Fox news, to get your, your news content, or you go to ESPN, guess what your ads on there. If people now get their content through Netflix and Hulu and sling, you know, OTT devices, well, guess what, that we can create a campaign that your, your ads are there as well. So the beauty of the target ad campaign means that we can be very specific. We can be laser focused on getting your message out to specific people that we believe would resonate to hear your voice.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:33):
Another thing that you do, which I think is so important during these times of COVID, when it’s hard for audiences to get together in one place, you help people with live streaming. How, how do you help churches and ministries do live streaming?

Eric Smith (13:47):
Yeah, we have our own proprietary platform. You know, we, we, we try to keep it reasonable cost $45 a month. But in essence way, it helps ministries get their message outside the four walls of your church. Obviously, if you’ve got 200 people in front of you in the four walls of your church, because a live stream, you can literally have thousands of additional people you’re having effect on. And that’s what we want to do. Right? As, as administrators, we want to be wise stewards of our resources and our time. And if, and if we can put our more audience in front of you because of a livestream platform, obviously it makes logical sense. We have hundreds of ministries tapping into our livestream platform right now. The livestream itself helps ministries to find out. We can show analytics on a monthly basis showing that the city, the state, the County, the countries that are tuning in this gives these ministries opportunity to begin to minister to them.

Eric Smith (14:32):
You know, it encourages people to submit prayer requests in, and that bridge gets built as that bridge gets built. Now you have the ability to, to follow up with people and minister to them and encourage them. And what, what, what a lot of people do Daniel with livestream when it comes to a church it’s also a perfect medium in which if a person’s interested in coming to a they’ll watch your live stream first, they want to get and get an idea of what to, what to expect. And what happens is we find the, watch it a second time, a third time by use of the fifth or sixth time they’re coming to your church. Of course, pastors love that because now they get rooted in become, you know, become a member of the church. And when it comes to an evangelistic ministry, it’s also a great platform for the simple fact that as an evangelist you don’t have a church that supports you.

Eric Smith (15:13):
It’s people that love your heart and your passion and your ministry and the way they thank you when ministry takes place, when you’re, when a miracle takes place in someone’s life, or someone’s soul good, saved where they want to say, Hey, pastor, brother, Daniel, I want to support you because I want more people to be touched. It’s like, you’ve touched my mom, my dad, my brother, and my sister. So there’s a huge opportunity with live stream. And, you know, in a day and age with everyone being on social media, which everybody, the brother is right now, nothing wrong with it. I think there should be on there, you know, but what happens as you’re populating Facebook, you’re populating you Twitter, you’re populating Periscope. You’re propagating YouTube. You know, you want to do is you want to drive traffic back to your website and a live stream platform on your platform, drives people back to your platform, to your website, helps them become aware of your church about your children’s ministry, your youth ministry, all the events going on helps become better from it with you. And it gives an opportunity through archive process to watch the message a second or third time. So if you’re a congregation member, unfortunately, you know, I tell these statistics to pastors all the time and they get disappointed. They get depressed, but you know, they people hear about 50% of what you shared and about a 30 minutes or an hour message. So the beauty vice changes, they can go back and hear 0.2 0.3 0.4, apply underlies, and good things will happen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:23):
Let’s talk about direct mail in years past direct mail was one of the main fundraising tools that a lot of big ministries used to use. And now a lot more fundraising is done on, on digital platforms. Do you think direct mail is still an effective way to connect with people?

Eric Smith (16:42):
It is. It is. And, and, and you know, obviously you, you can see based upon age, what people’s tendencies are, right? So if you’re, if you’re basically 50 and above, people still love getting that piece in the mailbox. And you know, I we’re, we’re helping ministries right now. Honestly, sometimes we’re bringing in hundreds of thousands, some cases, millions of dollars, and it’s coming still through the mail. People love the you know, the ability to open the letter up. They want to touch it. They want to read it. They want to put it down. They want to pray about it. You know, some people are scared of electronic opportunities, right? They’re worried about their, their, their, their stuff being stolen. I mean, you hear those stories as well, but I think it comes to the point where the, the newsletter, the direct mail going to mailboxes is still effective. It’s more, if it’s more cost efficient for administration to do the electronic, cause you’re not paying for postage and those kinds of things, but again, for a lot of ministry, especially ministries who have been branded for quite some time and have a loyal followers for them, in some cases, decades, the traditional mail piece in the mailbox still makes lots of sense.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:44):
Yeah. And in our ministry, we send out a monthly newsletter and still about 80% of our income comes from the newsletter that we send out. And, but I find that younger people are moving more and more to digital platforms and, and being comfortable with, with digital giving. So I think it’s good to have a mix between those two, at least in, in my experience let’s talk about a web design. I’ve gone to some ministry websites, and I know the hearts of the ministers. They have a huge heart for the world. They’ve done really significant things, but sometimes their, their website design is just horrendous. And actually I’ve spent a lot of money this last year, helping our website and, and getting it up to where it needs to be. Talk to me, what are some of the, the elements that should be included in a good ministry web design?

Eric Smith (18:37):
Yeah. Well, again, your website represents you, it’s really your biggest marketing piece. So for the, for an audience that’s becoming familiar with you it should answer all again, the who, what, when and why what’s your purpose is what your mission is, what you’re called to do. And you know, having a, you know, a basically WordPress is pretty much the most popular platform to use for websites right now. Video is a great thing to include on that, but again, a website represents you in a spirit of excellence, and if you have old content on there and you have things on there from three months ago, six months ago, or your blog doesn’t look like it’s been posted for two years, you kinda S you kind of share a message to an audience that you probably don’t want to share. And so it’s important to have a website that again, gives a perspective person, whether it be a pastor, you know, looking for someone to bring in, you want to give them a little taste.

Eric Smith (19:26):
Maybe a promotional video is always a great thing to have, because it gives that pastor an idea of what to expect. When you come to hear your preaching, they see the demonstration to see you’re laying your hands on people, those kinds of things. But it’s also it’s one of those things where it should be, it should be a place that content is constantly is being attitude. So you’re taking old content, all content down new content, because the idea is you want to drive people back to your website on a regular basis. If your content is not changing, why would they come back a second and third time? So there is the importance of really, it’s a, it’s a piece that represents each ministry. And I get a lot of messages just get busy, and I know the situation and what happens is sometimes it seems like the websites are one less thing to think about.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:05):
Let’s talk about speaker management. I have some friends that are in the speaking business, speaking for corporations, and they would often have a speakers Bureau who would represent them. They would call different corporations and, and arrange all the details. And that’s not really common in, in churches most churches and most people who minister in churches, they’ll personally call pastors and, and, and, and set up dates for them to come speak. But what do you do representing Christian speakers?

Eric Smith (20:40):
Sure. Good question. Daniel. What, what, what I did when I was actually still working for brother Schambach, I would get call from ministries and they say, Eric, listen, I feel a component of on the worst preach. We also, but I don’t know the first step. I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to knock on doors. I don’t want to call a pastor friend say, Hey, what’d you have me come and preach. So, you know, what we’ve learned early on was that there was a real valid need out there that probably two thirds of the, of the ministers that I knew what had to do more, they wanted you to, to on a regular basis, get the message out the door. Of course, pull the nets and win souls, pray for people watch God move in services and had lives being impacted.

Eric Smith (21:12):
And goodness decades ago I launched our own speakers Bureau with a handful of people. Now we represent well over a hundred people that are preach the gospel every single week going, you know here, domestically and around the world. And the speaker’s Bureau is, is, is a place in which now traffic comes to us churches and, and, and some corporate entities will come to us and say, look, we’re looking for a minister that preaches on this specific topic. They can get a chance to take a look at our, our, our, our list of, of ministries that we’re assisting. And then they content, Hey, Eric, I love to have this speaker come in. W could you help us facilitate? We’d be happy to, and that’s what we do. It’s just, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a it’s another tool that ministries can tap into that would allow us to tap into our experience.

Eric Smith (22:01):
I’ve been to 52 countries. I’ve been to over a thousand churches personally, here in America out of the 1,665 mega churches in America. Well, that’s 2000 members, or more or more, I think I’ve been to over 40% of those churches personally. So just because relationship and people have confidence, and if we recommend somebody and the Lord course feel putting his blessing on things we see doors open up. And of course the, the beauty of is that every single day we have speakers pulling the nets in and souls are being saved.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:29):
I was looking through some of the pictures on your website, and I saw many of my friends there. Joe Odin is there Donna Schambach Erin Bagwell and other friends that, that I’ve had for for many years. And so that’s wonderful that you’re, you’re able to help them out. I know every preacher wants more places to preach because they’ve got a message burning inside to communicate to a loss world. You also do media buys, donor development, video production. You even help people with their books, with ghost writing in with with book promotion. Would you like to touch on any of those?

Eric Smith (23:09):
Yeah, sure. I mean, I think I talked to probably when it comes to books, I would say one out of two pastors, I speak, we have a book in the heart and spirit, but can they just do it on the first steps? What do I do, Eric? You know, I just don’t know the next step. So we do a couple things. So some pastors are really good writers, and then we assist them with writing the content. We’ve been a company, we become a ghost writer in many ways. So we, we, we take, we take what they’ve written, put chapters together, obviously put content, content and flow, that kind of stuff, type setting. We do the whole thing from start to finish all the design, all the artwork, even do all the marketing, get the message out the door and selling the books as well for these pastors when it comes to TV terrestrial TV is still a popular medium to it to get the gospel out the door.

Eric Smith (23:50):
Everyone’s familiar with TBN and Daystar and word networks and impact networks and CTS and, and all the other ones that are out there. But we’re also helping ministries get on ABC, NBC, CBS, and CW, and my TVs every week again, lives are being impacted by this message that goes out the door. So, you know, it’s, it’s those are, those are very important mediums. And again, if someone’s got a 28 30 produced it also allows me cause we’ve thankfully have built such great relationships with so many different platforms. I can get most ministries on a platform that reaches about 10 million people a month at no cost. All I need are 28 30. So we’re all about just winning souls to help administrators get their message out the door. And I believe as the Holy spirit puts his blessing on things increased comes, so let’s get saved, miracles happen, and most importantly, the lives are changed. So yeah, those, those are all great aspects to order development. You know, every ministry, especially evangelists, right? You don’t have a church that supports you with a tie that offerings you have to go out and, and basically through partnership what comes in helps you to plan what I can do for ministry. It’s a bill.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:56):
Part of being an evangelist is raised.

Eric Smith (24:59):
It’s a lifeline, right? It’s if money’s are coming in, you can’t go around the world and preach the gospel. You just can’t, the gospel is free, but it takes tens of thousands of dollars in some cases, hundreds of thousands of dollars to do these events. And so what the direct mail plan or direct mail is, here’s what I tell people all the time. I’m, I’m a firm believer that money follows ministry. And what I mean by that, you show people, proven ministry, people are going to want to support it, start sharing testimonies, a why being changed and what we do for ministries. Again, because a lot of ministers say, listen, Eric, I could put a message together, but I can’t write. I just can’t. So what we do is we’ll, we’ll assist them. We’ll, we’ll put together a newsletter. That’s ethically based ministry based, not crisis mail.

Eric Smith (25:37):
You know, we’re not going out of business at three days. If this money doesn’t come in, that’s not the God who we serve. We serve a God. That’s more than enough, right? That leads us in victory and triumph, everything that we face. So what we do is we put ministry ahead of them. We share what’s going on with this ministry is the impact that they’re having. And we let them know as Philippians four 17 says, Paul said this to the Philippian church when they were, when they were supporting him, he was, he said, I’m thankful that you’re here supporting them. I’m more thankful that the people are being added to your account because you’re supporting me because every person comes to Christ through what I do is being added to your account in heaven. And that’s what we do with our, with our direct mail and our partnership mail on our donor base. And our thank you letters. And our fundraising leadership ministries is we show people proof of ministry. We, we, we champion what God’s doing in the services. And when people see it, they get behind his ministries.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:26):
You also have a really cool magazine that I love called lead magazine. And you’ve been kind enough to feature some of the articles I’ve written in, in the past whose lead magazine for

Eric Smith (26:40):
Yeah. Lead magazine is really for any pastor leader that wants to just get some nuggets of truth, get, get some ideas or suggestions. And what’s working for one will work for you. You know, Bible says this, that, you know, when you’re faithful little, he gives you more and he’s not a respecter of persons. Right. So what he does for Daniel Kolenda, he’ll do for Daniel King or he’ll do for Donna Schambach. And and so w w what leads all about is giving people, proven ideas, proven strategies ministry opportunities where, you know, you get a chance to pour your heart into someone, encouraged someone, pastors by the thousands and ministers in general, by the thousands leave ministry every single month because of depression and giving up, and then listening to the, to the devil, lie to them that they just can’t do it.

Eric Smith (27:23):
They’re a failure. You know, what we want to do lead magazine is plant seeds or righteousness and encourage people and say, you know what? You can do. You can go forward and just keep your hands in a pole and keep Hom, because God’s going to do great things on your behalf. And, you know, we’re privileged almost a hundred thousand pastors receive lead magazine right now, almost 1.2 million people started 10 years ago with about 4,000 pastors getting it and has grown organically to those numbers. So we’re just, we give God praise for what he’s done.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:47):
Wow. That’s amazing what a tremendous platform. Well, if someone’s interested in, in what you do, or they want to talk to you more and, and, and find out if you can help them, what’s a way that they can get in touch with you.

Eric Smith (28:01):
The best way to reach out to us is going through our website, which is Smith media group.com. Or you can go to, you know, if you want, if you’re more of the traditional guy, you can go to their phone number (419) 224-6010 is our office number. You know, I talked to pastors probably over a hundred pastors a week and give counsel, we’ll give guidance. People wanted to ask questions. I’m here available. My team are here and available to ask questions. You know, to our, our, our heartbeat is to be the errand or for ministry. So again, people like yourself, Daniel could be focused on the prayer and study the word, let us handle logistics on the backside. What are be, you know, we handle lots of social media for, for hundreds of ministries. You know, we handle the newsletters.

Eric Smith (28:41):
We handle the live stream. We handle this scheduling events. We handle interviews on worldwide television, all around the world, which you’ve been on several of those as well. And you know, that way you can just make sure God you’re doing what God’s calling you to do. And our strength is, is, is the behind the scenes stuff. And what I tell pastors all the time is that, listen, if no one ever knows Eric’s misnamed, I am perfectly comfortable with that. I, if I never have to grab a microphone, I am perfectly comfortable that there’s times in which I have to talk to hundreds of thousands of people can put some structure with ushers and all their teams that kind of step in. If I didn’t have to do that, I would, I’d be raising my hands, praising God, that’s just not who I am. I’m forced to do it because it’s one of the positions rolls out to play. But you know, what I wanna do is again you know, for those that have questions one guidance want to have a conversation. I, I do my best and make myself available my team available. So we can just give about counsel and help people any way we possibly can.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:35):
That’s awesome. I love what you do because so many ministries need help in various areas. And I’ve found that ministries have strengths in, in, in one area, but they might be weak in another area. And so that’s where someone like you can come alongside and help make the entire ministry strong. And so the, the marketing, the, the work that goes into making a ministry successful, it is so important. And, and many times people don’t think about it. They don’t really see it, but if it’s missing, it’s really noticeable in a ministry. So thank you for what you do. It’s extremely valuable and a great blessing to the body of Christ.

Eric Smith (30:14):
It’s my pleasure, my honor. It’s what we’re called to do, you know, let her, let her, Ravenhill told Steve Hill one time when Steve was an, a missionary evangelist in Argentina and he was saying, you know he’s watching, you know, Benny hand fill arenas of 18,000 people and said, Leonard, I want to have one on one. I want to preach the gospel for an 80,000 people. And he said, and then he would call it Steve, Stevie. I said, Stevie, listen, draw yourself a circle and stay inside your circle. And what letter meant by that. So, you know what? You have specific gifts and callings, don’t be Benny Hinn, be Stateville. And as you’re faithful and being Steve Hill, God will bring more to you. And then about a decade later, the were viable to golf and Steve, you know, was preaching and some of the biggest arenas around the world.

Eric Smith (30:52):
So I encourage any, any, any minister, right? That’s a follow up, follow up with Leonard. Ravenhill told Steve Hill, draw yourself a circle, understand your gifts and talents. And don’t divert from that. Keep your hands in a blocky Palm, because God is faithful to bring increase. And who’ll be the one that opens doors for you. And, and what we find at Smith media group is that we love being the, the people that Bible says Matthew seven, seven, ask and keep on asking, seek and keep on seeking, knock and keep on knocking. What we’d like to do is we’d like to be the knockers for ministry to say, listen, we have a great ministry. We believe would be a great opportunity for have you come. And that we through our resources and through our contacts, allow them to say, we’d love to have them good things happen when these ministries go out and more importantly, Jesus glorified, everything that they do.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:33):
That’s awesome. Well, brother, Eric, thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast and thank you for coaching ministries and coaching evangelists and helping them to do what God’s called them to do.

Eric Smith (31:45):
Thanks so much for having me, Daniel. God bless you, sir. God bless you. Bye bye. All right.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:50):
And that was one. Well, thank you so much for listening today. This was some tremendous wisdom from Eric Smith on what goes on behind the scenes to make a ministry successful. If you learn something today, could you do me a favor, go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King and leave us a review. And while you’re there, subscribe to the show. So you don’t miss out on any of the interviews with great men and women of God from around the world. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (32:21):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

As an Evangelism Coach, I am frequently asked, “How do I start a ministry?” Today, we are going to talk about how to start a 501c3 non-profit organization in the United States and  we are joined by Wes Carter who is an attorney with Winters King Incorporated.

In order to accept donations in the United States, it is important for ministries to be incorporated as a 501c3 organization. When I started my ministry, the law offices of Winter’s, King, and Associates helped me with the paperwork. Today, Wes Carter who is a lawyer with Winter’s, King and Associates will explain the legal process for starting a non-profit organization.

Questions for Wes Carter:

What is a 501c3 organization?

Why is it important for ministries to be incorporated as a 501c3 organization?

What is the process for starting a 501c3 organization?

What information should be in a ministry’s Articles of Incorporation?

What is the difference between incorporating at the state level and securing a 501c3 designation from the IRS?

How much does it cost to incorporate? For incorporation, Winters King charges a flat fee of $950. Then depending on what form is filed with the IRS, securing 501c3 status costs between $1200-$2500. So the whole process can cost between $2,500-$4,000.

How long does the process take?

Once an organization is incorporated, what are the requirements for the organization to remain in compliance with the law?

What are some of the things a 501c3 organization can do, and what are some of the things they cannot do?

Website: wintersking.com

Contact Number for Winters King Incorporated: 918-4946868

If you need coaching in starting your ministry, please talk to Evangelism Coach Daniel King.

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
As an evangelism coach I’m frequently asked, how do I start a ministry today? We’re going to talk about how to start a 501c3 nonprofit organization in the United States. And we’re talking to West Carter who is an attorney with winters King incorporated, an organization that has set up thousands of 501c3 non-profit organizations.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:27):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelists

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:06):
In podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. One of the questions I’m frequently asked by people who are starting out in ministry is how do I start a 501c3 organization in order to accept donations in the United States? It’s important for ministries to be incorporated as a 501c3 organization. And so when I started my ministry, the lawyer’s office that helped me out with all the paperwork and applying for that status was winters King and associates. And today we have a lawyer West Carter who is with winters King and associates. And he’s going to explain the process of starting a nonprofit organization, Mr. West, thank you for being here today. It was my pleasure. So let’s start out by answering the question. What is a 501c3 organization?

Wes Carter (02:03):
A 501c3 organization is just what the people call the someone who’s tax exempt. So they’re not, we’re talking about a federal income tax exemption, which essentially means that you’re usually a corporation, but on top of that, you also have a special tax status with the IRS that allows you to take tax deductible donations, as well as you can have an exemption from income tax. So you’re not paying income tax at the federal level for, you know, what money you bring in in this case. Usually donations ties offerings. Usually it also means you’re exempt on the state level as well. Although some, some States you have to file a separate income tax exemption with the state.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:46):
Okay. So winters King and associates is a lawyer’s office here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and you guys have helped thousands of organizations file for the 501c3 status. And so you guys are experts at every time I talk to people here in the Oklahoma area about doing fiber ones. They always say, I talked to winners King and they helped me out. And so you guys have been responsible for helping out a lot of people. Do, do you help people in other States as well?

Wes Carter (03:18):
Well, we do. And actually it’s just winters and King ain’t now it was winter’s King associates, I think when we set yours up. But yeah, so we, we, we do a lot of this. We’ve been doing it since the early eighties and we have, you know, we have clients in all 50 States a whole, a whole bunch of different foreign countries. Obviously we don’t set them up and foreign countries, but we have people that go into foreign countries or we have attorneys we work with in other countries to help set those up as well. So it is something that we can talk to people about in all 50 States. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:48):
Why is it important for ministries to be incorporated as a 501c3 organization?

Wes Carter (03:53):
So that’s a great question. So, you know, there’s a lot of specially in the last couple of years, people who would prefer to avoid as much legal formality as they can for various reasons. But the incorporation part is very important because without it, all we have is a group of individuals. So if you and I are running a ministry, we don’t have a corporation, then it’s just you and I, the people out there running a ministry, and if anything goes wrong, nobody’s there to Sue except you and me, the individual. So what one of the best benefits of having a corporation is that you have a separate legal entity there that operates the activities that separate entity then provides some separation and protection so that if the ministry has a debt or get sued, then you’re not responsible for the debts, the liabilities in the ministry, just because you might be the founding minister or on the board or one of those things.

Wes Carter (04:49):
So the, probably the best way it provides a benefit to you as the minister or the missionary or pastor, is that, you know, it protects the people that are involved from a, from a personal standpoint. And also it allows you to keep everything separate. The people I run into that are especially missionaries or itinerant ministers, they’re taking donations or putting in their personal checking account. And then they have to count every penny that comes in as income, and they’re trying to write off expenses. And so it gives you somewhere where you can keep everything separate here. This is the ministry stuff for the churches stuff. This is my stuff. And so that becomes very important too, because the more you mix the two, it just, all kinds of things can go wrong.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:33):
And then another benefit is giving the tax deductible receipts. What, how does that help people?

Wes Carter (05:39):
So, you know, if I make a donation to your ministry, most people expect that they’re going to be able to write that off on their, on their tax returns. You know, they get a deduction on their personal tax return. And so that’s one big benefit because you know, your $5, $10 people may not be that big of a deal, but once you start getting large donors, it becomes a big deal for them or corporate donors. They, you know, they want to do that. Also, if you deal with any kind of private foundations, they’re limited to only giving to 501c3 organizations. And if you start getting where you’re sharing resources or getting support from other churches and ministries, they have to be very careful and almost, you know, never can give to for-profits because we can’t just take our non-profit money and give it to a for-profit. So by having a 501c3, then you’re opening all those doors as well. Also having your 501c3 comes in handy with a variety of vendors. I mean, if you want a nonprofit PayPal account, or if you want nonprofit postage rates, I mean, all those things are kind of based on your 501c3 status. So, you know, it provides benefits in a number of areas.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:48):
So what’s the process for starting at 501c3 organization.

Wes Carter (06:55):
So I like to think of it basically in two phases. Okay. Phase one, we have to set up the corporation itself, phase two, we look at applying to get your 501c3 status with the IRS. Phase one, you’re looking at essentially filing articles of incorporation with your home state to create the entity, get you a taxpayer number. What’s called an employer identification number a lot, bill called an EIN. And then we’re doing bylaws, which are perhaps the, one of the most important governing documents. And you know, your first set of minutes, those kinds of things put together the corporate book. Now you have a, an entity that’s up and running. You can take those documents to the bank, open a bank account, have a separate bank account to deposit the money. And that’s kind of phase one. Now there are other little side issues.

Wes Carter (07:44):
Sometimes you’re dealing with in phase one, like I said, sometimes varied on the state, filing a little income tax exemption with the state, or some States require you to register what they call charitable solicitations registration, where many States exempt religious organizations. But it’s always something to look at. See if you have to register with the attorney and journal that as a charity, the second phase then is applying with the IRS. And there’s a number of nuances there, but generally speaking churches are inherently exempt as a 501c3. If you meet the IRS criteria of a church, the main ones being regular worship services, your services are open to the public. All your, your whole congregation is not all family and it’s not all cousins and aunts and uncles. Then you’re having inherent exemption as a 501c3 without even applying.

Wes Carter (08:36):
Now, again, those other benefits, the, the corporate corporate, well, the other benefits of having 501c3 status, the, you know, the, the, the nonprofit vendors, the, the taxes I’m trying to state level, there’s still reasons why it’s always usually a good idea for a church to go ahead and get 501c3 status by applying and getting in the IRS is, you know, list of [inaudible] ministries. Don’t have that ministries. You’re not a 501c3 until the IRS says you’re a five Oh one C3. So with ministries there are now two applications you can use. One’s the form, 10 23. And then they have a form 10 23 EZ. Now the easy version, the biggest hurdle usually is you have to be able to say that you don’t project to go over $50,000 in revenue in any one of your first three years. So it’s designed for smaller organizations the filing fees, the attorney’s fees, everything’s lower on the easy application. And then they have the regular 10 23, that all that has been updated. It’s been the same form that you’ve used for decades to file for your 501c3 status.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:42):
So a church receives 501c3 status. They, they, they, they meet the criteria for it, but then a ministry that is like a para-church ministry, a ministry that maybe is doing missions, or maybe is, is feeding the poor, something like that. They would need to apply in order to, to, to get the status,

Wes Carter (10:06):
Correct. They have to apply and the church can apply. The IRS has a portal now where you can go online and search exempt organizations, look, people up, which people are starting almost like a Google, a business, you know, to look up the reviews, they’re looking it up to see if you’re really exempt. And again, corporate donors, if you start working with schools and things like that as a church, there’s a variety of reasons why we usually advise clients to go ahead and file for your 501c3.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:29):
What criteria is the IRS looking for to see if an organization should qualify for the status

Wes Carter (10:38):
For just 501c3 status. So they’re looking to make sure you’re organized correctly. There’s some specific language you have to have in the articles of incorporation that talk about, you know, you won’t engage any improper, private benefit was just means, you know, you’re not using non-profit resources to benefit individuals that unless they’re, you know, part of a charitable class that you’re not gonna engage in political activity, that if you dissolve, which is the legal term for killing off a corporation, if you dissolve the corporation, go away, you’re required to donate all of your property to another 501c3. So it stays being used for a charitable religious purpose.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:13):
So it’s a, it’s a public corporation. And usually it would be, or always, it would be governed by a board rather than an individual. Well, what are some of the criteria you should look for in appointing board members?

Wes Carter (11:31):
So it’s a great question. And as I mentioned, your bylaw, your articles of incorporation are typically there’s things that have to go in there. And they’re just, you know, there’s not a whole lot of extra things you add in your bylaws are where all the nuts and bolts are. And one of the most important thing is your, your, your board. So even though it’s run by a board, one of the things we often talk to our ministers is setting it up as a founder, strong or pastor strong setup, which, which I re you know, kind of just my terminology I use, but where we let the minister appoint and remove the board members. And that way the minister can make sure that they don’t lose control of their own organization. So with that being said, you know, my advice usually for how to pick the board members is you want someone who usually has their own thing going on that they’re, you know not necessarily take the risk that they decided they’re going to do this better than you can that is going to support your vision.

Wes Carter (12:33):
But also you don’t want a bunch of us people on there. I mean, you want people who will question, call you out if they think there’s a concern, but then with you as the lead visionary as the lead minister, once the decision’s made, then, you know, they’ll, they’ll get behind you and still support you, but you don’t want people who are just going to say yes to everything, because that’s just not healthy, you know? Yeah, no, one’s perfect. The more, the more ideas, the more, you know, wisdom we can get in the room, usually the better decisions we’re going to make. So those are kind of the, the, the qualifications for the board members. I mean, because they can run the gamut where it’s friends, other ministers on the board, people who are involved in the ministry itself you know, so, but a lot of times it comes down to the individual people, but you do want to be very careful.

Wes Carter (13:22):
And if you end up with an organization where the board appoints and removes itself, by email, by majority vote, then those items become drastically more important because you have the risk of, you know, 10 years down the road after you’ve built this up with your blood, sweat, and tears and prayers that, you know, someone votes one day that they just don’t need you anymore. And they’re going to go on without you. So you know, picking the board members are very important but it’s really people who are going to support you, but not pander to you, I guess, would be one way to put it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:55):
Is there a minimum number of board members you need to have

Wes Carter (13:58):
A minimum of three. The IRS likes to see these days, they’ll strongly encourage us to have at least half not be in the same family. But we need at least three members.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:10):
How much does it cost to incorporate and then apply for the 501c3 designation from the IRS?

Wes Carter (14:18):
Well, what we do since we do so many of these, what we do is we charge a flat fee. So for the incorporation process, we charge a flat fee of nine 50 for the attorney’s fee plus whatever the filing fees are with the state, which vary from state to state.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:31):
So the incorporation happens at a state level, correct. And you incorporate in a state. So my organization King ministries is incorporated here in the state of Oklahoma. Does Oklahoma have filing fees for being a corporation?

Wes Carter (14:49):
Yeah. And so in Oklahoma, we’re usually at about $75 as what, cause they have a filing fee and then they have an online fee. They tack on top of it. But usually we’re looking at about 75. Then they range anywhere from $25 up to $200 is probably the max I’ve. You know, if we got to look at all the States. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:09):
And so it’s at the incorporation level that you are writing the bylaws, explaining the purpose of the organization, establishing what it’s going to do. What are some of the recommendations that you make for the bylaws, what needs to be in there?

Wes Carter (15:27):
So the bylaws are going to have your tenants of faith, which for religious organization, I believe is very important to have that in black and white. Sometimes those tenants of faith will include statement on instance, marriage and sexuality. You know, some of the hot button topics. We mentioned the board, probably one of the most important ones, how the board members are elected or appointed how they’re removed your officers. Usually you have a president, secretary, treasurer, and a corporation. A lot of times, those are the same people as the board, but you just have to understand those two different hats. So, you know, if there’s three of us were three of us were on the board, your president, I’m secretary he’s treasurer, we’re all three of the same people, but we’re serving in two different roles, the board and the officer. So the officers also have provisions on how they’re appointed and removed.

Wes Carter (16:12):
So for instance, if the senior pastor is the president, you’re looking at not only how’s the senior pastor mood as a board member, but how is the senior pastor removed or appointed as an officer as well? Cause you can have a situation where I remove you as president, but you have a lifetime service on the board, but you know, you lose half of your power. All, you know, now you’re just a board. You’re not seeing your pastor anymore. You’re just a board member. Usually we have a, you know, talk about conflict of interest policy so that we’ve got a transaction where one of us have a financial interest in it. How do we work through that process? We have a lot of these things are things that are unique to our bylaws are unique to religious corporations, but for instance, how we’re going to use our facilities in a scriptural way, you know, some, some language about not using our people or our stuff in a way that would contradict our tenants of faith to help guard against, you know, things that, you know, trying to guard against obligations, where we’re going to have to hold a Vince, for instance, at our building that will completely go be, you know, against our, one of our beliefs.

Wes Carter (17:18):
So it’s, it’s, it’s things like that. How the hollow bylaws are amended. If, if it’s a church, many times we’ll address ordination in the bylaws, you know, that we give the church the power to ordain other ministers. But really the things that, you know, when you’re starting it up, if, if you get bylaws you’re reviewing or an attorney or someone gives you bylaws, I would say the first two places to start there, the most important are what the, the board and the officers because I’m guessing that you already have a tenants of faith that you’re comfortable with.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:53):
So to incorporate you guys charge $950 flat fee. And so that’s at the state level, but then after you’ve secured your incorporation at the state level, then you have to apply to the, the IRS, the internal revenue service for the five Oh one C3 designation so that you can give tax deductible receipts. So talk me through that process after you secure that incorporation, then what happens?

Wes Carter (18:22):
So after you get incorporated, then the way we do it is we have a questionnaire that we have you fill out and then we take all that information, review it, reword it, take words, you know, buzzwords in and take buzzwords out that kind of a thing and fill out the application itself. And again, depending on which application you use, the easy version for smaller organizations is only a couple pages long. The regular application can be, you know, dozens and dozens of pages long. So you know, that process looks like essentially you filling out a questionnaire to get us answers. I mean, there’s a lot of questions on the regular 10 23, about how you approve compensation, your budgets are you operating in foreign countries? You know, just the whole gamut of the activities that you can expect every year. They just get a little more complicated with these forms.

Wes Carter (19:17):
And if we use the easy application, what we do is we go ahead and give you our full questionnaire. It’s actually a little bit longer because we have to make sure you qualify for the easy we review all of that information on the front end to look for. Cause what part of what we’re doing is looking for red flags saying, Hey, Daniel, you shouldn’t do it this way before we file. We need to change this, you know, your, your, the way you’re selling your books through your ministry that you own. Personally, we need to tweak this a little bit. And we go ahead and do all of that and review it. We just don’t give any of that information to the IRS. We use the simplified application and use the shorter version. So then we fill out the forms we apply. We send in the application to the IRS, they’re all online.

Wes Carter (19:55):
Now we submit them online beginning of this year. And then we wait. The IRS over the years takes anywhere from 30 days to 18 months. You know, right now probably averaging about four or five months on the regular applications from when we hear back after we file. We’re probably one thing that’s important for your listeners to understand is the way the process works is as long as you file your 10 23 application, your 501c3 application within 27 months. So when you incorporate, you know, that date, we’ll talk about filing with the state. You don’t want to wait that long, but that’s the maximum. If they approve the application, they’ll make your 501c3 status retroactive back to your date of incorporation, which means once we start, your ministry can take anywhere from a couple of days to a week or two at the state level, you can start doing ministry activities, taking donations, having events, things of that nature while we’re waiting on the IRS to process the application. Because as long as they approve the application, it’s going to be, everything’s gonna be retroactively tax deductible to your donors and tax exempt from an income tax standpoint. So you can

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:09):
Start ministering. You don’t have to wait for everything to finish, to start ministering, correct. You get in the process, you can start ministering and once you are approved, then you can go back and give a letter to your donors saying that they get it

Wes Carter (21:25):
Right? So this time of year it’s easier because hopefully we get everything wrapped up. By the end of the year, when we transitioned between two calendar years for tax purposes, then we just have to be a little careful what those receipts look like, because we don’t want to be dishonest with our donors obviously, and say, we are a 501c3 on the receipts for the donations, but rather we explain we’re in the process of applying when it’s approved, it’ll be retroactively deductible. So they still have a contemporaneous document of that. They gave a donation. So things still try to claim it on the taxes. How long does

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:56):
The incorporation at the state level typically take our States faster than the other?

Wes Carter (22:00):
Oh, much faster. Some States are slow, but most States like Oklahoma. If I file articles, I usually have it back by the next day. Most States are a couple of days. The RFU States where you still mail stuff in, so it can take a couple of weeks, but a couple of weeks is still much faster than what you’re looking at with the IRS.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:17):
So the incorporation can take days, but the, the 501c3 from the IRS could take a month, several months up to 18 months, you said so. Yeah. And you just have to be patient

Wes Carter (22:31):
Exactly. Because once you file it, you thought of your hands. There is an expedite process, but the bar bar so high to use it that it’s I’ve only even thought we had a chance to use it once out of the thousand. Okay. I mean, you basically have to be able to show that if they don’t exploit your application, your organization will be dead by the time they get to it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:50):
So once an organization is incorporated, they’ve secured the 501c3 designation. What are some of the requirements for the organization in order to remain in compliance with?

Wes Carter (23:02):
That’s a great question. So most 501c3 is have an annual report. They filed with the IRS called a form nine 90. So that’s it. You don’t have to file a tax return, but you file an annual informational return. Not very important to file. There’s a few versions of that, again, depending on your level of revenue, how much money’s coming in. But if you don’t file that for three years in a row, they will revoke your 501c3 status. You’ll have to go apply again to get it back. Now churches are exempt from that. The common theme hitters churches are special. But churches do not file a 990. So if anyone out there is wondering, look, I’m going to be a church and a ministry, which ones should I be? The is always get church status if you qualify for both, because they also have special audit protections.

Wes Carter (23:51):
The IRS has to jump through some very specific hoops to audit a church. So not filing a nine 90 is something particular to churches in the religious world. Outside of the IRA. Now you also have your taxes. So from a tax side, and if you have employees, you have to follow your employment tax filings and things like that. Or we’re just talking at the corporate level here at the state level you could have an annual report to file at the state level as well, depending on the state we talked about some States have a charitable solicitations registrations where basically the attorney journal once charities to register with it. So he knows, or she knows that they’re around and out there. But many religious organizations are exempt from that as well at the state has an annual report. You know, like with the secretary of state, the corporations, part of the bureaucracy, most of the time nobody’s exempt from that most of the time, you know, everyone’s filing the annual report. If that’s part of the state process,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:49):
Does Oklahoma have a annual report? No.

Wes Carter (24:52):
Nope. Nope. There is a little bit of an annual tax thing where he shows you a fire lines, but Oklahoma, Oklahoma is a very easy place to do business.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:01):
I like Oklahoma. Yeah. Okay. So your organization, winters King incorporated. Does this process, how can people get in touch with you if they’re interested in, in starting their own ministry or

Wes Carter (25:15):
Sure, sure. You can. You can email us. We have a contact form on our website, which is wintersking.com, W I N T E R S K I N G.com. Or you can just give us a call at (918) 494-6868 (918) 494-6868.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:32):
Well, if you are planning on starting a ministry, I’d encourage you to get incorporated to get your five Oh one C3 status so that you can open up bank accounts so that you can give tax deductible receipts. And so everything is proper and legal for your organization. And Winter’s King did a great job with my articles of incorporation and helping me out. And so I recommend them. So thank you Mr. West Carter for being with us today.

Wes Carter (26:01):
I appreciate it. It’s my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:04):
God bless you. If this information about how to start a 501c3 organization is useful for you today, could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this information. Thank you. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (26:28):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Bryan Citrin is a Business Entrepreneur who has a heart for ministry. First he was a campus missionary with Chi Alpha (https://chialpha.com) on the campus of UCLA. Then he started going on mission trips to Haiti and Vietnam. To pay for it all he started a marketing business. He is in the Two Comma Club with an online marketing company called ClickFunnels which means his company has earned more than a million dollars in revenue from online marketing. Now he owns his own company called LeadFlows.com. He is an expert in both marketing and ministry.

Check out Bryan Citrin’s digital marketing company here: leadflows.com

Forbes Articles from Bryan Citrin:

Four Pillars Every Entrepreneur Should Balance to Help Find Purpose: https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2020/10/13/four-pillars-every-entrepreneur-should-balance-to-help-find-purpose/?sh=34c47aeabfc7

Six Ways to Create a Philanthropic Culture in Your Business: https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2019/03/29/six-ways-to-create-a-philanthropic-culture-in-your-business/?sh=48a5894c6e69

Article About Ministry in Vietnam: https://news.ag.org/en/News/Refugee-Becomes-Ministry-Pioneer?D=%7B1363B7E2-EDBD-4DD4-B69C-A160FF74CF6C%7D

In order to receive receive resources that will help you raise money for your ministry text the word “Growth” to 918-265-3050.

If you want coaching in starting your ministry, please talk to Evangelism Coach Daniel King.

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Brian Citron is a minister who has also had articles published by forbes.com. He understands both business and ministry, and he’s an expert in digital marketing. He recently started his own company called lead flows.com. And today he explains why every ministry and church needs to take advantage of the enormous possibilities offered by his amazing software.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:28):
Well, Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelist

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:06):
Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest. His name is Brian Citron, and he is a marketing genius. He is a published author with forbes.com. One of the premier business websites in the world. He has been involved in ministry for many, many years, but he also happens to be a marketing genius. And so his specialty is entrepreneurship and doing online marketing. Brian, thank you so much for being with me today.

Bryan Citrin (01:45):
Thanks so much Daniel excited to be here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
So tell me a little bit about why marketing is important for ministries.

Bryan Citrin (01:53):
Marketing is important for ministries because the gospel’s free, but the ministry cost money. And you have to have a way to let people know about your ministry and you have to let them know in relevant matters, how things are going with your ministry. And so it’s crucial that you leverage the latest strategies and tools to the fundraise. Let your donors know what’s been happening, et cetera. On the same way you see big ministries, fundraising, or you see like political campaigns, fundraising the same way your ministry should leverage those tools to make your stuff known. Because the more resources you have coming in, the bigger impact you can make around the world for the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:29):
Now, fundraising has really changed over the years. I remember hearing my dad tell stories about working for or Roberts and back in the day, or Roberts would send out literally millions of letters and my dad would help to stuff the letters and do direct mail marketing. But now a lot of the funds that ministries are able to raise, have moved from getting a letter in the mail, which people tend to look at it and they throw it in the can to, to now a lot of the marketing is happening online and people are sharing their stories online. They’re, they’re communicating with people online, through their cell phones. Everyone carries a cell phone with them everywhere that they go. And so a lot of the ministries that are really effective at raising money now have moved a lot of their, their fundraising from the physical realm into the digital realm. And so Brian, you’ve been very involved in the digital realm as an entrepreneur, as a businessman. What are some of the things that you’ve done in the digital realm to, to help

Bryan Citrin (03:39):
Build businesses? Hey that’s a great question. I first want to say I’m in a Forbes agency council. So I’m looked at as an expert, not just for ministries, but businesses and business leaders. Look to me as an expert in the marketing agency arena for like online marketing.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:56):
Let’s talk a little bit about your credentials for a second here. Several years ago, I remember you showing me a website called click funnels and with click funnels, if you design a website that people go, they, they put in their information and then they start receiving emails and, and different ways of reaching out to people. And the goal is to, to sell a product and then maybe sell another product. First you sell like maybe a $7 digital download. And then later you say, we also have this hundred dollar video that has some more information. And then you say, and by the way, we have a thousand dollar coaching program that you can get in on. And then if you get in on that, then maybe there’s a $10,000 super-duper conference that you can go to. And so that’s why it’s called a click funnel because it’s this funnel that funnels people through from first impressions, all the way down to becoming a an investor basically in, in, in whatever it is that the person selling. So I remember you, you showing that to me and, and then you actually got in the two comma club with click funnels, which this is a really big deal in the digital marketing world. What’s the two comma club

Bryan Citrin (05:17):
The two comma club means that my company has made two commas or over a million dollars from a single sales funnel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:23):
And you’ve done that helping businesses. This, this was not ministry related. You were doing it more in the business realm. Tell me a little bit about what type of business you were involved in.

Bryan Citrin (05:34):
Sure, sure. So I own chiropractic advertising.com and both my parents and my uncle are chiropractors. So we’ve been focusing in the healthcare niche and we’ve been creating online marketing campaigns for these chiropractors and charging them a lot of money to build out these whole campaigns, where we run their ads online, targeting new patients. We create online websites for them, landing pages. We create online scheduling and a bunch of backend texts, automation, voicemail, automation, email automation, all this stuff, all in the healthcare space.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:03):
Now why do chiropractors pay you a lot of money?

Bryan Citrin (06:08):
Chiropractors paying me a lot of money because I make them a lot of money.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:10):
So they’re, they’re not just paying you because they like you, you are making the money with these systems. You are helping them to, to get more customers, to make more money in their business. And so it’s worthwhile. They give you a dollar, they get back $5 or $10.

Bryan Citrin (06:27):
I remember one chiropractor. He told me that I made him an additional 40 plus thousand dollars in his first, like 40 days over half of that was paid up front. He made me a testimonial video, six months later saying that he made over $175,000. And I know that over a hundred thousand was paid upfront.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:49):
I think this is so valuable because ministries need money and they can use the digital space in order to do fundraising. And you’ve been very successful in helping businesses, but you also have a huge heart for ministry. So you spent a lot of time as a missionary to the campus of UCLA over in California, you’ve also gone a bunch of missing strips to, to Haiti, to, to Vietnam. And so you are very much called to be a minister, and you’ve seen ways that ministries can adapt this technology that you’ve learned about for the ministry. Tell, tell me about some of those ways that people can use the technology.

Bryan Citrin (07:37):
Sure. everybody, you should have a database of your, your donors and your potential donors. Every single ministry needs to have a database. That’s your most valuable asset names, numbers, and emails of people that believe in you that either getting ministry updates, maybe they’re getting devotionals, or maybe they’re your process. You’re reaching out to them for, you know, solicitation for mission trips. So you need to have that database, but you need to be actively engaging that list. So you need to be sending out emails to this list. Of course. And that’s a lot of people are saying emails, but what a lot of people are not doing is they’re not seeing out text messages. And the problem is a lot of emails. They go to spam filters, but there’s actually a way to send out mass text messages at scale. And it makes it look like you’re personally texting them, but really it’s like a VIP ministry line that you can text them. And then when they respond, you can have a go to your cell phone automatically and texts back and forth with this private VIP line through our app or from like the app on the mobile desktop or on the phone. And they’re really, you know, scale out your your ability to cultivate relationships.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:43):
Okay? So this is not just one solution. This is a bunch of different things that ministry should be doing. So in that paragraph that you mentioned there, you mentioned email marketing. You mentioned having a database with all the different names and addresses and, and, and emails and phone numbers of, of the donors. You mentioned texting, and you mentioned apps. Now I know a lot of different resources are available out there. And sometimes you could go to five or six different companies to figure out how to do all this. So one company would, would do funnels and then another company would do an email than another company would do text messages, but you’ve been developing a resource that brings all of these different applications together into one place.

Bryan Citrin (09:45):
Absolutely. So when I first started my digital marketing company, you’d mentioned ClickFunnels. I use ClickFunnels, I use like five or six or seven other programs. I had to have a program for call tracking. I had had a program for automated two-way texting. I had to have a program for making outbound calls. I had to have a program that connected things together. I had to have a program for sending emails. I think I mentioned the funnels already. I had to have a program for sending voicemail drops to people. I had that all these different things connected, and then it was like an another software to be the glue connect, everything together. You had to have another program for online forums. It was crazy and it was just like, everything

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:24):
Is different programs, cost you X number of dollars a month.

Bryan Citrin (10:27):
And I was paying every month and I’m paying for all this software to make it all work together. But now, you know, I have this software and I actually just wrote an article on Forbes about this about how you can leverage all this, all the software and how you can even consolidate software. So like, I, I recently wrote this article in beginning of December, it got published, it says four important habits. Every marketing entrepreneur should implement them in leveraging software. And one of the things we talk about is try to consolidate all your software into one spot. So it’s easy. And so we’ve actually consolidate all the software into one spot and create a simple solution that ministries can use to cultivate and deepen relationships with their donors. So they can not only, you know, get prayer requests out to their donors, but are also able to give them ministry updates, et cetera.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:19):
So tell me what the name of your, your software,

Bryan Citrin (11:23):
Where is the name of the software is lead flows.com.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:26):
So what, what is, what does that mean? What’s a lead flow?

Bryan Citrin (11:28):
Lead flow is a term that I came up with. And I like to say that you don’t need a funnel. You need a lead flow. And I like to say is it’s the entire process a a, somebody goes through as you cultivate and nurture that individual from the time you first meet them to the time whenever they’re purchasing your services to the time when you’re actually con actually cultivating that relationship into like a higher levels of giving higher levels of like engagement with your organization, with your ministry or business. So is this something that the only big ministries could you,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:03):
Or is this something that someone who’s called to go as a missionary to Africa, that they would be able to use to raise money?

Bryan Citrin (12:11):
Every ministry needs to use this. And I think that even smaller ministries need these even more because they have less resources and less staff, the manly do these actions, because what this, what lead flows does is it does a lot of things that once before maybe they had a dedicated staff member doing all these individual tasks, but this can literally automate the whole process that makes it easier for the person who’s over in Africa to engage with their donor base and engage with with their prayer partners, et cetera.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:41):
Like, let’s talk about sending out text messages. Like if you were to be in Africa and I’ve sent out text messages from Africa, it costs me like a dollar, a text or something to send out. But with lead flows, what you could do is you could load up a text. And since it’s in the cloud, you’d be able to access the website from Africa. You set it up to send out a text, and then instead of paying a dollar, a text from Africa, you’d only be paying a few cents per text here in America. And you could send that one texts like, Hey, check out this video from the crusade I did last night. And it would go out to all 150 of your friends, and they’d be able to watch a video of what you did.

Bryan Citrin (13:30):
Absolutely. And what’s so exciting about it is you can utilize something called merge tags, and I’m sure you’ve seen it. If you’re not like familiar with marketing terms, you open up an email. It says, hi, Daniel. You know, I’m so excited that you’re able to join us for whatever it is he’s talking about. And you’re addressing the person by name. So this software has the ability to sound this text and have these merged tags that you can customize a text message for each person that’s getting it. So it could be like, Hey, Daniel, I’m going to Africa right now. And we use this skews crusade check out this video. I just, I fill in for it. And literally they think that you’re sending them the text messages, but really, you know, it says, hi Daniel. Hi Brian. Hi Steve. Hi, Mary I Sally. And you’re personalizing it on a mass scale. Yes. And there’s, and there’s other personalization you can do with that as well. And you can be really micro in terms of how you actually personalize these text messages. What are some

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:20):
Other ways that you think ministries could use lead flows?

Bryan Citrin (14:25):
One thing that’s really valuable, especially if a minister is speaking you can actually have like a Texas subscribe. So for example, if you’re speaking at a church, you could say, Hey texts prior to this, this phone number. And then we’re going to send you this form we can put in your prayer request, or you could say, Hey, I have this free book on X, Y, and Z text this number, and we’re going to send you this out. And so you can use that to generate leads. It can create websites. So like me and I, friend of mine, we created a website that I showed you for this, this online conference we did on teaching entrepreneurship and in kind of entrepreneur entrepreneurship mixed with, with ministry. And we, we built the whole thing on lead flows. So we built the, the, the registration page and lead flows.

Bryan Citrin (15:10):
We built a shopping cart on lead flows and everything. And we got over 300 people. This is the register for this and a weekend using paid advertising. So you could literally use this to create like a registration form for a conference you’re doing online. And then we utilize lead flows to send out text messages, emails, telling people whenever we’re about to actually launch that the zoom. And I think the first let me launched it. We had 85 people on their lives. And so about 25% of the people who registered actually showed up live. And part of the reasons why we got so many people there live was we were able to text them and email them in a real time when we were actually launching the zoom, but the link,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:48):
Okay, I’m a little skeptical, but I want to see if this really works. And so you said you you’ve set up a way to demonstrate this in real time right now. And so if, if you will pull out your phone and text this number, text (918) 265-3050 in text, the word growth. So just write in the word growth and then text it to (918) 265-3050. Brian is going to send you free of charge links to some of the Forbes articles that he’s written that will help you be better at fundraising. And then he’s also going to send you information about lead flows, dot com. And so you’ll get to see how the whole system works and how he, he, he uses it. So right now, (918) 265-3050 texts, the word growth. And Brian will basically put you as one of the leads in his flow in, and you can get in the flow with Brian. Thanks so much, Daniel. Thanks for being on the evangelism podcast. I encourage you to think about digital marketing for your ministry. It’s very important, and it will help you to do what God has called you to do in a greater way. Go ahead.

Bryan Citrin (17:12):
All the major ministries out there are actually running all on advertising to the raise money for their ministry. I mean, they’re doing it at my, at my COO. He actually used to run the online marketing for a very large ministry that you’ve probably heard of. I’m not going to mention names. They had, like you say, he’s managing like a team of like 80 people doing all these crazy aggressive fundraising online managing hundreds of thousand dollars because they’re getting the return, the fund, their ministry. And so you don’t have to have a ton of money to even leverage online marketing. You can start small, start slow, but once you learn different concepts, and once you developed the ability to grow your list and legalize technology like lead flows, you should totally be able to scale up your, your non-profit your ministry that really fulfill a calling that God has for you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:04):
Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Brian. Thanks. Thanks for listening today to this interview with Brian Citron, could you do me a favor, go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King and subscribe, and while you’re there, leave us a great review. So the other people who have a passion for evangelism can find this podcast. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (18:33):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

From UCLA to Haiti to Vietnam with a few detours along the way to become a highly successful entrepreneur and a digital marketing genius, Bryan Citrin talks today about why it is important to combine marketing and ministry.

Merging Marketing and Ministry

Bryan Citrin is a minister who has had articles published by Forbes.com. He understands both business and ministry and he is an expert in digital marketing. He recently started his own company called Leadflows.com and today he explains why every ministry and church need to take advantage of the enormous possibilities offered by his amazing software.

Bryan Citrin is a Business Entrepreneur who has a heart for ministry. First he was a campus missionary with Chi Alpha (https://chialpha.com) on the campus of UCLA. Then he started going on mission trips to Haiti and Vietnam. To pay for it all he started a marketing business. He is in the Two Comma Club with an online marketing company called ClickFunnels which means his company has earned more than a million dollars in revenue from online marketing. Now he owns his own company called LeadFlows.com. He is an expert in both marketing and ministry.

Forbes Articles from Bryan Citrin:

Four Pillars Every Entrepreneur Should Balance to Help Find Purpose: https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2020/10/13/four-pillars-every-entrepreneur-should-balance-to-help-find-purpose/?sh=34c47aeabfc7

Six Ways to Create a Philanthropic Culture in Your Business: https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2019/03/29/six-ways-to-create-a-philanthropic-culture-in-your-business/?sh=48a5894c6e69

Article About Ministry in Vietnam: https://news.ag.org/en/News/Refugee-Becomes-Ministry-Pioneer?D=%7B1363B7E2-EDBD-4DD4-B69C-A160FF74CF6C%7D

In order to receive receive resources that will help you raise money for your ministry text the word “Growth” to 918-265-3050

Are you interested in Evangelism Coaching? Call Daniel King, the Host of the Evangelism Podcast

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
From UCLA to Haiti, to Vietnam, with a few detours along the way to become a highly successful entrepreneur and a digital marketing genius today, Brian Citron talks about why it is important to combine marketing and

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:17):
The ministry Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus all over the world. And today I have a wonderful guest. His name is Brian Citron, and he is a business entrepreneur who also has a heart for ministry. So first he started out as a campus missionary with Chi alpha on the campus of UCLA ministering to students there in California. A lot of them need Jesus. Then he started going on mission trips to Haiti and to Vietnam. And when you go on missions trips, you got to raise a lot of money to do it. And, and so his idea was to start his very own marketing business. And so with this marketing business, he has made a lot of money that he’s been able to put into missions. He actually joined the two comma club on an online marketing company called ClickFunnels, which means that his company has earned more than a million dollars in revenue from online marketing. And so now he started his own company called lead flows.com and he’s an expert in both marketing and ministry. He’s also a good friend of mine. Bryan, thank you for being on the podcast today.

Bryan Citrin (02:10):
Thanks so much, Daniel. I’m so happy to be here.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:12):
So tell me a little bit about how you got started in ministry and how you, you started out ministering on the campus there in UCLA.

Bryan Citrin (02:22):
Sure. Thanks. So my background is business, so I have a bachelor of science in entrepreneurship. And so back in 2009, I graduated from Missouri state university and approaching my graduation date. I was praying about what I should do. I just got done writing a business plan. I was the president of the entrepreneurship association, and I wanted to launch this business and make a much money. You see, I want to actually fund the gospel. I didn’t want to actually have to go and be a missionary, but six months, six months before I graduated the lower start, dealing with me to move out to LA and work with this campus ministry at UCLA. And I didn’t really know much about UCLA and I knew that my brother’s bent toward moved out there to pioneer campus ministry about five years prior. And I had spoken to him briefly in the past and he said, I should pray about moving out to LA and doing an internship with him.

Bryan Citrin (03:11):
And I was praying about what I should do. And when he originally offered me the internship, it went in one ear and out the other ear because I had no interest in going on the mission field. But as I was praying and praying in the spirit and bringing English about what I should do, that thought came back to me. And I remember I was at church praying about the direction where I should go. And I really sensed that. God wanted me to do that. And even throughout my whole college career, I’d somehow met different people that foreshadowed in action with this pastor out in Los Angeles. And so I called my brother and I said, I had a problem. And he said, what was that? And I told him that I felt the Lord wanted me to move out to one of the most expensive cities in the world and essentially work for free.

Bryan Citrin (03:49):
Like this is crazy. You know, I spent years getting in debt and you know, studying to become an awesome entrepreneur. And now God wants to be in a forsake everything and go be a missionary. And so I told that to my brother and he says, if God’s calling me to do that, I need to go ahead and call that pastor and let him know. And so when I hadn’t called him and told him, I felt that the Lord was calling me to go out to LA and internship with them. And later when everything was official, I told him that it was, it was on the bottom of my list for things to do in terms of moving out to LA, moving out to LA missionary. And he looks at me and he says, Brian, you weren’t even on my list. He says, I don’t remember offering an internship. I just did it that be nice probably, but I was driving on the four or five highway, praying for the direction and ministry about to go on a week long, fast. And the spirit of God spoke to me and told me I was about to get an unexpected phone call and a better be able to do it. Me answer pretty much better be yes. And I called him within minutes. And that was my journey into a full-time ministry out at, at UCLA, in Los Angeles.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:51):
So you ministered there on the campus and UCLA had a tremendous impact there. And then you started going on mission strips. First you started going to Haiti and now you’ve been on something like 24 missions trips down to Haiti. Tell me a little bit about what your ministry has been doing in the nation of Haiti. So

Bryan Citrin (05:11):
It was this village that our ministry supports and we’ve been going down there. The pastor I work with has been going down there for over 20 years and this ministry it doesn’t get a bunch of outside support from other individuals. So we’re pretty much the only ongoing support this village gets. And so we go down there, we actually started a library in this village. We put on ministry crusade events down there. We put on shirt services. We had put an evening feeding programs that we invest in economic development to help create jobs because the solution is long-term job development. You have to invest in education, you have to invest in economic development and that’s going to be sustainable. And so we invest in things that are sustainable down there. We hosted the first ever graduation ceremony for this village. Kids are growing up, they’re getting great. They’re having to go to school because of us. They’re going to us because of us. But most importantly, they’re getting to know Jesus because of us and they’re duplicating and they’re making an impact in other people’s lives in the village and throughout Haiti as well. And it’s incredible the impact we’ve been able to make down there for the gospel and just for the practical needs that we’ve been able to meet down there.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:15):
Haiti is the poorest nation in the Western hemisphere. And so job development is so crucial to helping the people there in Haiti. And I love how you’re combining this training in entrepreneurship and in business with ministry, helping the people down there in Haiti become self-sustainable so that they don’t live in poverty so that they can have their needs met. And then God’s also opened the door for you to go to one of the five communist countries in the world, the country of Vietnam. Tell me, what is God doing in Vietnam? So,

Bryan Citrin (06:58):
So we, I took my first trip to Vietnam in 2019 and last year 2020, we would have taken multiple trips down there, but because of COVID-19 we just haven’t been able to go there, but they want us to go and they’ve been praying for us to go there, but that the pastor I work with, he was a born in Vietnam and came over to the United States as a refugee. And there’s actually a pretty powerful article that was just released about this. And so I know that you guys can probably find this article underneath this blog underneath this yeah,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:26):
I’ll provide a link for it on our, on our website, under the evangelism podcast. So you can find it,

Bryan Citrin (07:32):
But that’s the password why I’ve been working with these Vietnamese and he was elected as the head of the Vietnamese fellowship here in the United States for the assemblies of God. So all the Vietnamese churches in in the United States that are affiliated with these numbers of God, they looked to him for leadership. And so the head of the sound has gotten to Vietnam and asked him to come over there. And just so you know, Sam has a, God is a largest spirit filled movement in that nation. And Vietnam is in the 10 40 window. One of the most unreached people, groups in the world is in the 10 40 window. So this is a huge deal. And so they asked us to come over there and we really didn’t even know what to expect. And I remember when he went over there on this first trip, they were having this pastors gathering in a whole Shimon city and the whole place was packed.

Bryan Citrin (08:21):
These pastors actually paid to be there. They had to turn people away. And these are pastors and their staff there in the ocean city area. And they had these salmons, God looks to us and says, you guys are the speakers for this pastor’s conference. And so literally we had to train these pastors for three days in a row for four sessions a day. So I was with three other people, and each of us took a session and we train day after day after day, these pastors and the they told us later that 70% of those pastors that were at that event and their staff had been in prison for their faith. I’m like 70% of them have been in prison for their faith. I’d never been in prison for my faith. I live in America. So compared to way we speak to everything in America is super easy, but

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
Humbling to be in a situation where the people that you’re ministering to have paid such a high price to be Christian, what, what do you say to people that are in that situation

Bryan Citrin (09:17):
That are, are being persecuted for their faith are saying if someone, you know, is being persecuted for the faith, I’d say that just, you know, stay strong, keep pursuing the Lord. And I know there’s a lot of resources online, available to you to help draw you closer to Christ, but, but never forget that there’s power in this gospel. There is power in this gospel. And even as the early shirts, they experienced persecution. This persecution allowed the gospel to the spread, not only in Jerusalem, but throughout Israel and throughout the world, eventually, you know, this gospel can’t be stopped and there’s power in this gospel. And, and the incredible thing about these people in Vietnam is they’re seeing signs and wonders and miracles. They’re seeing God intervene, introduced supernatural. They’re seeing incredible moves of God that I’ve seen lacking in many churches here in the United States. Let’s talk a little bit about

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:09):
Marketing because you have a gift for ministry, but you’re also have a genius that God has given you for entrepreneurship. You’re a true entrepreneur. You take risks, you invest money, you develop different ways of marketing. And a lot of the people who are listening, they have their own ministries. And of course, one of the things that every ministry needs is money in order to complete the vision that that God has given them. And so what advice, or how can you help people who are in ministry? How can you help them with their marketing?

Bryan Citrin (10:47):
Sure. That’s, that’s a great question, Daniel. And so I have actually spent more in online marketing and online like business strategy than I have in my college degree. And so I’m very, very talented, very gifted in this arena. And so what I would say is leveraged tools to help scale Euro your ministry there’s tools out there that you can leverage. And we’re going to even talk about these tools later that are, that can really help you fundraise because there’s technology out there that can help you take time away from ministrative works. So you can be out there advancing the gospel. I know that I recently wrote an article in Forbes that a couple of articles in Forbes, but one of them specifically was created. So you can take this Forbes article and send it to a business leader. Maybe somebody you want to become a anchor donor. You can send on this article. And by saying this article, you can ask the feedback on this article. And the whole purpose is to help bridge an opportunity for them to actually either ask them for money and for them to be an anchor donor. And, and I know that the the name of that article is six ways to create a philanthropic culture in your business.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:57):
And so this article would be something that if someone’s in ministry, they could actually forward this article to someone who is a supporter or a potential supporter to encourage them to be, to give more to people who are in ministry.

Bryan Citrin (12:12):
Yeah. And, and I know that the whole thing is you would send it to somebody and you say, Hey, I just read this article. I want to know your thoughts on how you’re doing that with your business. What are kinds, some kinds of things you’re doing in your business that kind of implement some of these principles. And then either number one, they’re not doing anything. And it gets them thinking and opens up a bridge free to ask them, do it for you, or they are doing it. And then still it was a bridge for you to ask for them to do it for you.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:38):
It’s absolutely amazing that you have been published in Forbes. I mean, Forbes is the premier business magazine business website in the United States that that talks about business. And so the fact that, that you have the credentials as an entrepreneur to be accepted, to write an article for Forbes is, is pretty impressive. And also the other thing I like about the articles you’ve written for Forbes is that you are using these articles to talk to people in the business world about Jesus, because the business world is just as much of a mission field as going to the nation of Haiti or go into the nation of Vietnam. I mean, people in the business world are broken, they’re hurting, they need Jesus. They might be successful in one area of their life, but, but desperately needing help and in other areas. And, and so tell me a L how can someone access these articles that you’ve written on Forbes?

Bryan Citrin (13:44):
Oh, yes. And so I actually made it so you can text in to get access to these articles. And so go ahead and text this number (918) 265-3050. And you’re going to text the word growth once again, that’s (918) 265-3050. And you’re going to text the word growth.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:12):
So text the word growth to (918) 265-3050. And Brian is going to send you these resources that will help you to raise money for your ministry.

Bryan Citrin (14:26):
And another thing that’s going to be really exciting about this is we’re about to release a free fundraising program like some free training on fundraising. And so if you text that number, you’re gonna get added to a list to get early access or access when that launches for this fundraising program that we’re about to release. I’m super excited about that.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:45):
That’s something that every ministry needs is the ability to be efficient at their fundraising and to raise more money. I don’t think I’ve ever met a missionary or an evangelist who says we have too much stop giving. Everyone has bigger vision than they have the resources. And so those are such valuable resources. Thank you, Brian so much for sharing about what you’re doing and the impact you’re having around the world. Thank you for being on the evangelism podcast. Thanks for having me, Daniel. Thanks for listening today to this interview with Brian Citron, could you do me a favor, go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King and subscribe, and while you’re there, leave us a great review so that other people who have a passion for evangelism can find this podcast. Thank you so much. And God bless

Evangelism Podcast Host (15:39):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Jason Woolford was a United States Marine when he found Jesus. In 2010, he became the Executive Director of Mission Cry (Christian Resources International). Their goal is to put Christian books and Bibles on bookshelves around the world. So far, they have sent $350 million in Bibles and Christian teaching tools to over 173 nations.

Questions: 

Jason Woolford came to Christ during his service in the United States Marine Corps.

What is a “book missionary?”

What impact do your books have on new believers around the world?

Jason’s son was miraculously healed of a brain tumor.

Website: https://missioncry.com

To learn about Evangelism Coaching, you can call the Host of the Evangelism Podcast, Daniel King.

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Jason Wilford was a United States Marine. When he found Jesus in 2010, he became the executive director of mission cry. Their goal is to put Christian books and Bibles on bookshelves around the world. And so far they’ve sent over $350 million worth of Bibles and Christian teaching tools to over 173 nations. Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionary, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. We have a very special guest with us, Jason Woolford. He was a United States Marine when he found Jesus in 2010, he peak game the executive director of mission cry, which is also known as Christian resources international. And their goal is to put Christian books and Bibles on bookshelves around the world. And so far they’ve sent over $350 million worth of Bibles and Christian teaching tools to over 173 nations. So brother, Jason, it is so wonderful to have you on the evangelism podcast today.

Jason Woolford (01:46):
Man, and God, so glad to be here today. I appreciate you so much. I’m thankful for just who you are as a brother in the Lord and being an evangelist man you know, being about your father’s business. So glad to be here as well.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:01):
Well, let’s start at the beginning, how you became a Christian. I know your, your testimony is that you came to Christ during your service in the United States Marine Corps. And I see there on the wall behind you, you’ve got some memorabilia from the time when you were in the Marines, how did that happen? How did you become a Christian?

Jason Woolford (02:20):
Yeah, so man, I was in the Marine Corps and you know, I tell people all the time before I was a, a minister, you know, each one of us has a testimony and a lot of times we try to clean that testimony up when we become believers. But my testimony was that I was a fall mile fornicating, United States Marine. And I met these two dark greens as we called them in the Marine Corps back in the day we in the Marine Corps, we were all green, right? Marine Corps green but there were two black guys that were men of men Marines and Marines. And I really liked them and appreciated how they were, but there was something different about them. Soon. I would find out what was different about them was that they were believers in the Lord Jesus.

Jason Woolford (03:03):
And you know, they kept inviting me to come to church with them. And eventually I went and I got saved in a all black church in Oceanside, California. And you know, after about six trips to the alter, the pastor said, you know, brother, you, you only got to come once if you mean it. And I figured I had a lot of meds, so I had to keep coming, but man, that’s how I got saved. And just a couple of weeks later, I met my wife who was a Christian, who was a Marine bad news for her was she had been a Christian since she was 15 and we were both 20. And I had been saved about a minute. So I was a big work in progress for her, but that’s how I came to know the Lord through evangelism.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:44):
And so now you lead this, this absolutely tremendous ministry called mission cry. How did you go from being saved to now actually being in the ministry?

Jason Woolford (03:56):
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, one of the things that my wife and I learned and understood through the word of God was who was living in giving to him. And after our Marine Corps careers of understanding how to live and give to God he had blessed us. We were in SA Southern California. We were both vice-presidents of big companies 20 years ago called to, to Michigan or went to Michigan for a business opportunity. And then that’s when I got called to ministry. And man, you know, it was just how God is. He’s so good. And he’s so faithful. You know, I went to Bible college and I wasn’t tough enough to be a pastor. I said, mama, I’m going to be an evangelist I get in and get out and I don’t have to deal with a church people and I’ll be right.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:41):
I think evangelists are a little bit like Marines. They’re the first ones to go into new territory.

Jason Woolford (04:48):
That’s right, man. We’re first in first to fight were evangelists are a force in readiness, you know, in the Marine Corps. And people always say, Oh man, don’t go in the Marine Corps. They’re the first ones that get sent. Well, we’re the first ones that gets sent because anywhere around the world, we have Marines, ammo, food tanks already on ships. So when something breaks out, that’s why the Marine Corps is there first because we are a force and readiness. And really man, that’s how we’re called to be as, as believers will be a force in readiness. But to answer your question, you know, from, from the business world to just 11 years ago giving up all of that stuff and hearing from the Lord saying, you know, I want you to, even though you’re a full-time evangelist and working full-time, I want you in full-time ministry.

Jason Woolford (05:31):
And so we took a huge step of faith. I quit a job that was, I, you know, I was making about $130,000 a year and on track to be the director of a company. And you know, I just felt like, man, I got to honor God in this because as you know, those that are watching, some of you are called to a marketplace ministry. And then there’s people like my brother and I that are called to full-time ministry, a different different ministry and both are as equally as important. But nevertheless, we, we were called called out. We stepped out in faith and through a whole bunch of crazy events, trusting God, almost losing everything that we had once again God showed up at the last minute and this ministry called and said that the seven board members had heard from the Lord that I was to be the president and the minister of this ministry.

Jason Woolford (06:20):
And, and so man, I was praying and like, God, show me, you know, if this is your will. And, and I found a document that I’d written 10 years prior in Bible school. And and I had forgotten, I re wrote it. And they said, if you were going to be in ministry, write a ministry business plan of what that would look like. And so I’ve, I’ve, I’ve found it. And I, I forgot, I even wrote this thing and it said mission to send the true inspired word of God to every home in every nation around the world, a vision to do this empowered by so long story short, I’d read that. And I was like, man, I bought became a Baptist right on the right on the spot with predestination non-planned. But my point is, is it was so miraculous of how God was speaking. And, and so we said, yes, and that’s how we ended up here at mission cry and you know, men now we just, last year we sent 1.3 million people, a free Bible or Christian book in 24 nations just last year. And so it’s amazing what happens when you, when you honor the Lord.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:22):
Wow. That’s amazing. My first exposure to your ministry was a few years ago when we were doing a nationwide outreach in beliefs, and we had scheduled 10 evangelists to come to do 10 crusades simultaneously in 10 different population centers across the nation of beliefs. And we got connected and you sent an entire shipment, a huge 70 foot container full of books to give away to the people of beliefs. And then after our big event was done, you continue to go back to the nation of beliefs. I believe you sent an even more shipments of books. Kind of tell me about what impact your ministry was able to have in the nation of beliefs.

Jason Woolford (08:15):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, in part of that, that, that motivation came about by two people first John boy, and then you, and I know you guys know one another, but you know, it started with with him saying, Hey, is it possible for me to get a box of books to send to Billy’s? And I was like, man, yeah, I can do that. And then I thought, what w you know, I can do a palette now I can do a container. I can do. And you know, what I’m saying is there’s certain things as believers that we know that we can do. And so I asked the Lord, I said, Lord, what is it besides everything? What is it that you you can do that I can in this country. And I thought, like he said, give a, give a Bible. And the Christian book for single person in the entire country believes. And I said, well, that’s definitely out of my, out of my scope. And but long story short through, through prayer and trusting God we sent enough Bibles and Christian books to reach every single home in the entire country that believes. And so the impact has been phenomenal. The reports that we’ve gotten back you know, from people holding crusades to now being able to have Bibles and Christian books true miraculous.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:23):
I do a lot of traveling to different nations around the world. And I often visit pastors and church leaders and I’ll spend time with them in their homes. And I’m a book guy. I love books. I’ve got a huge library. I probably got about 5,000 books in my library. And so, you know, I studied for my doctorate. I’ve been doing lots of reading, but I’ll, I’ll go to these, these pastors houses in different countries. And sometimes they, they have a Bible and maybe one book or two books on their shelves and all of their preaching, everything they know comes from just that, that the, those one or two books. And there’s really a poverty of training materials in some parts of the world. And so your ministry is attempting to address that situation and, and sending containers of, of Christian literature, Christian books, Christian training material, and, and even Bibles up many of the places that we go. Sometimes the pastor doesn’t even have a Bible, or maybe they have one Bible for the entire church. So, so talk to me a little bit about the mission of your ministry and why you feel it’s so important to send books and, and training materials and Bibles around the world.

Jason Woolford (10:48):
So, yeah, so there’s a statistic that says there’s 122,000 people that are getting saved every day around the world. The alarming statistic is that a majority of those people are attending a, a church where the pastor doesn’t even own a Bible. And so when we look at the wealth and the prosperity that God has given the United States of America, like no other country on the planet we know that the average home in America has six Bibles sitting on its shelf. That’s not even the Christian home. It’s just the average home in America has six Bibles sitting on a shelf. So over the last 60 years, we’ve been encouraging people around the United States to send us those extra Bibles and Christian books that they have. And so that we can repurpose those basically, you know, let the world hear our mission cry with Bibles that were either sitting on someone’s shelf or you know Bibles or Christian books that were, you know, were just dormant where meanwhile people like you were talking about brother they’re some pastors are preaching out of a daily bread and and you know, that sounds nice.

Jason Woolford (11:54):
That’s not the way that God intended it in for us as a ministry. And those that are watching you have the ability to send an extra Bible or a Christian book that you have to this ministry. And it goes through a big sort process and then gets palletized and gets put on sea containers. And then once you get on sea containers and they get supported, then we send those overseas 100% absolutely for free. And so we’re seeing the impact of people’s lives for the 37 year old girl. And in Africa, we got a picture back where she’s literally crying, holding the Bible up because it was a Bible that a used Bible with marks in it crying her eyes out because it’s the first Bible that she ever owned. You know, I mean our, our brother in Nigeria he, he lost his wife and his two daughters burned by Boca rom the his wife nose and breast and other parts of her body chopped off his daughters burnt.

Jason Woolford (12:53):
And you know, he, he didn’t call our ministry. He didn’t write our ministry and ask for food. He didn’t ask for water. He didn’t ask for money. He said, we need the word of God. We need the word of God. For those that have, are still alive, where their family has been martyred for Christ. And they need to be able to read about the God that they were being martyred for. And so those are just some of the stories that we hear where people are in such desperate need of the word of God, and we have it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:24):
Yeah. I think books are such a powerful way to help people, you know, books help new believers grow spiritually. So one of the challenges of every evangelist is to turn converts into disciples. How can a new believer grow from saying a salvation prayer into becoming a strong follower of Jesus? And so one way of doing that is by putting literature in that new believers hand so that they can begin to grow another great thing about books is that they continue to preach the gospel long after we returned home. So we can go on a missions trip and we can share, but the book can go farther than I can go. It can stay longer than I can stay. It can impact lives that I’m never able to reach. And really by, by giving away books, you are imitating God. So our heavenly father sent his son Jesus for a season, but he left his book, the Bible for all of eternity.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:19):
And so you’re giving Bibles to people and that’s a piece of, of, of God that you’re, you’re giving to them. And then another thing we find about books and I love giving away books, we’ve given away in our ministry. We’re not quite up to your level, but we’ve given away almost 600,000 books over the course of our ministry and books are often passed from hand to hand and they’re read by many different family members and neighbors. And so at one of our gospel, I remember we did a survey and we found an amazing fact. We found that every book that we gave away was read by an average of 10 people. And so those books have a, such a tremendous blessing. Now, tell me kind of how, how your ministry works. How do you collect books then? What do you do once you collect them and then how do you get them to a place where they’re needed?

Jason Woolford (15:16):
Yeah, absolutely. So from radio and television interviews that we do, and just by word of mouth people around the United States here, that they have a place that they could pick up Bibles or books from you know, used bookstores or salvation army or their houses or wherever. So we have thousands upon thousands of books that come into the ministry every week. And those come from people that are clearing their bookshelf, sharing their bookshelves, or sharing someone else’s bookshelves. And so when we get those those Bibles and Christian books upon the thousands of bonds, tens of thousands that’s how we get those and then repurpose those and then finding people in other countries that can get a container and clear it, and then use it for evangelism. That the very important thing of that is when we send the container, it has Bibles, it has seminary Christian authored books and Christian education discipleship.

Jason Woolford (16:12):
So within that container, there holds the word of God and teaching tools for those that are not saved brand new, saved those that are pastors are those that want to you know forward their, their, their, their education. And, you know, one of the things that’s real important. And, and this is why reached into that drawer was this Bible had come into the ministry. And as I told you, we get thousands upon thousands every day. And so when my staff came up, they said, Hey, we want to show you this Bible. And I’m thinking, okay, well, there’s a lot of those that come in. And they said, no, you’ve got to look at it. So I looked at it and you know, I was like, man is genuine leather smelled. It was like, yeah, it’s just genuine leather. You know, it’s got golden boss pages.

Jason Woolford (16:56):
And and then I, I began to, to open it up and inside, there was no writing on it. And it was a misprint that was printed. So it was a Bible that looked like a Bible smelled like a Bible, had the golden boss pages, but inside there was no, there was no writing. And this spoke to me in two ways. The first is this reminds me of so many of us that have six Bibles sitting on our shelves and you know, we might look right. We might smell right. But we’re not in the word of God. And therefore we don’t know what God has to say about the rest of the situation, not knowing how to properly fight the battles that we’re in, in the second way that it speaks to me is that there are brothers and sisters around the world.

Jason Woolford (17:44):
Daniel, as you have said that you know, we, we hold crusades. We, we go, we evangelize, we do what we’re supposed to do. They’ve asked Christ in their life. Their eternity might even be set with God, but yet they still have to live a life on this planet on earth until, until they go before our father. And if they don’t have the word of God, they don’t know how to properly fight. As you know, in Ephesians, God says it right to put on the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of rice and spells street, gospel shoes, a beast. But he says above all, taking up the shield of faith and the sword, which is the word of God. And when I read that time and time again, and Ephesians, it just really hit me and made me understand the importance of providing Bibles and Christian books to people, because God says, without faith, it’s impossible to please him. He said that faith is a substance of things, hoped for the evidence of things on scene. And that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. So in other words, we have Christians that are out there saved, limit, truthful peaceful lives, but if they’re not in their word of God, they don’t have the shield of faith and the sword. And so they’re not equipped to, to, to fight against the devil and what they’re up against. And that’s the difference that we’re making with the word of God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:56):
That’s awesome. I’ve got a couple of questions for you, approximately how many shipping containers full of books have you sent overseas and what are some of the recent nations that you’ve sent books to?

Jason Woolford (19:10):
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that well, first off we’ve sent now 300 and update since information that you have $390 million worth of free Bibles and Christian books to 177 nations. Some of the most recent places we as a ministry, we never shut down during COVID. I deemed us essential because I believe the word of God is the most essential thing ever known to man. So we never shut down. And you know, everybody that says, you’ve got to put your big boy and big girl britches on because I’m telling you I was a Marine before I was a minister. And so when this COVID thing hit, you know, I was like wasn’t happy too much about China. And so I was thinking, man, I’d like to Marine Corps drop a bomb, but then I thought, you know what?

Jason Woolford (19:53):
What’s a greater bomb I could drop during this time. And I thought, you know, it’d be awesome if we could send the word of God to China. And so during COVID we sent $3 million worth of free Bibles and Christian books into Hong Kong. That’s already made its way into Shen Zen and to mainland China. And so we’ve sent just recently to Hong Kong, 130,000 people in Nigeria got a free Bible and Christian book just last year. The most recent container just landed yesterday with pictures of distribution Philippines, Burma mean the list goes on 24 different nations last year. Daniel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:30):
That is absolutely amazing. Well, if one of my listeners wants to help you send books and Bibles to the nations, how can they find out more about your ministry? What’s your, what’s your website?

Jason Woolford (20:43):
Yeah. So it’s mission cry.com. And on there, there’s a tab that’s called books and you can give or donate books, a couple of things just in closing brother. We have our mission cry Bible, which is a new Testament NASB Bible. We created that. So when we’re running short on used Bibles we’ve been able to create this beautiful looking Bible. That’s NASB. It has the plan of salvation, a G 300 discipleship program in the back. And people can sponsor this at $2 a Bible, and that all that pays for the Bible and puts it into the hands of someone absolutely free overseas. And so you can visit our website and I want to leave you with this. This is a book that they gave us at eight years old, when our son was diagnosed with a cancerous inoperable brain tumor seven years old, end of story, make a wish recipients said he wasn’t going to live.

Jason Woolford (21:38):
And they gave us this book and this book says a resource guide for parents of children with brain or spinal cord tumors. This book is 18 years old. And I asked people, if you could tell me Daniel, could you tell me what’s on page one of this book? And the answer is no, you can’t because you’ll never read it. And I’m going to tell you that I’ve never read this book. I’ve never opened this book. Never because I was not going to be a parent of a child with a brain tumor. But instead I opened the word of God and I was able to read what God had to say about the rest of the situation. We never allowed the last thing to be spoken over our children, to be something contrary to the word of God. And so I just want to encourage those of your listeners that are listening and watching.

Jason Woolford (22:21):
It doesn’t matter what the little T truth is. The truth was that there was a tumor in the middle of my son’s brain and he was going to die, but that was the little T truth. And the greater T truth was found in the word of God. I want you to know my son that tumor vanished out of the middle of his brain. He’s 26 years old. He just graduated from moody. He starting his master’s program. And the awesome thing is, is God is not a respecter of person. So if he can do it for us, he can do it for you. This is why we believe in sending the word of God. Mission cry.com, call us, write us, partner with us and let the world hear your mission cry. And brother, I am humbled and blessed to be on your program. You are a mighty man of God.

Jason Woolford (23:01):
I’m thankful for your, your, your heart for evangelism. That was the first two things that Jesus, that God was, he was an evangelist and a missionary. And and I hope most people get, get on track with that. And lastly, one thing you talked about the 33 years of the Lord, I want to encourage those of you that are watching that God had given us a full Bible. We got to get off just those 33 years of his timeframe in the flesh on this earth and read about the God of the old Testament and the new Testament and the soon coming King and he’s coming. So you better tell people about Jesus,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:36):
Brother, Jason. I love your passion. Thank you so much for sharing that testimony of how the brain tumor in your son disappeared. That that is the miracle that I can hear how it shaped your desire to spread God’s word around the world is so tremendous. So thank you for being on the evangelism podcast. God bless you, man. Glad to be here. Thank you, buddy. Love you and the Lord, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. Could you do me a favor, go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King, subscribe to the podcast. And also if you could leave a positive review that will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (24:31):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Brad Stine has organized hundreds of banquets to help ministries raise money. In today’s podcast he talks about how to host a successful fundraising banquet.

How to host a banquet: 

We host a yearly banquet for our partners in our hometown. This gives us a chance to connect with our friends, give victory reports, and share our goals for the coming year. We usually hold our banquet at a hotel conference room, in a church fellowship hall, or at our own home.

Keys to hosting a banquet:

* Send invitations to everyone you know in your state. These should include friends from church, people you work with, people you do business with, and anyone to whom you would normally send a Christmas card.

* On the invitation include information about the date, location, and purpose of the banquet. Include an RSVP envelope for people to respond.

* One week before the banquet, call everyone who is attending to remind them of the event. About 10% of those who RSVP will probably not attend, so keep this in mind when ordering food.

* During the banquet, show a video or slideshow, share stories about people whose lives have been impacted by your ministry, and give details about your goals and projects in the coming year. Ask people to partner with your ministry through prayer or monthly support. Also give your guests an opportunity to sow into your ministry by receiving an offering at the banquet.

Website: http://www.harvesthomeland.org

Please Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast with Evangelism Coach Daniel King

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Brad Stein has organized hundreds of banquets to help ministries raise money. In today’s podcast. He talks about how to organize a successful fundraising banquet.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:14):
Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionary, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:51):
Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And I also love coaching evangelists and helping evangelists learn how to be more effective at what God has called them to do. And one of the ways that is effective at raising money is hosting a ministry banquet. And today I have one of the world’s best experts on doing ministry banquets. He has organized over 300 ministry banquets here in Tulsa and helping ministries to raise money for their ministries. Mr. Brad Stein. Thank you so much for being with us today, Mr. Brad, you’ve done a lot of banquets. Tell us why are banquets such an effective way of raising money for a ministry?

Brad Stine (01:45):
Very simple. Most ministries send out monthly newsletters sometimes weekly, sometimes every three months, but they send out newsletters. And a lot of those newsletters never get read. People say, Hey, how are you liking are giving money, They throw it in the trash…

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:12):
Throw the newsletter that you spent good money on in the trash. Yeah, I hope not. I hope no one does that to my newsletter

Brad Stine (02:19):
As Mr. Brad, I’ll tell you how you can tell who does and who doesn’t just say, Hey, did you get my newsletter? And I say, look to the side and say, yeah, I received it. They didn’t read it. Sure. As they look in the eyes say, yep, sure did. And I really liked that second paragraph where I’ve said, yada, yada, yada, then you know, you got a live one.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
All right. So, so a banquet is good because it’s not a newsletter. You’re, you’re actually have an opportunity to talk to people face-to-face and communicate your vision. Your, they can hear how much you care in the sound of your voice. See the facial cues. And when you’re talking about your, your vision, they see just how passionate you are. And, and that gives God a chance for the anointing to come into the room and, and people open up their, their wallets and, and, and get a chance to give. So talk to me some about the, the process of organizing a banquet. Cause it doesn’t just happen by itself. There’s a lot of planning that goes into it. So what are some of the steps you have to take in order to set up a banquet?

Brad Stine (03:33):
Well, first, yes, you need to, the person needs to realize they need a banquet. The banquet is not only just for fundraising. It’s an opportunity to get, to see the people who’ve been giving into your ministry for the last year and look them in the eye and give them a hug on their neck, a handshake, thank them because they are part of the team. They are the provisioners. And many times we ministries have a tendency to receive the money from them or the support, whatever it is that they’re giving us. And we go out and use it in the name of the Lord, but we don’t really come play the loop. And so we tend to be recipient instead of giving back to them. But you have it at least once a year, we get to look them in the face, hug them and thank them.

Brad Stine (04:40):
And that helps to keep the loop going. Chiefs keeps it going because they haven’t seen you for a year. And if they are not reading your newsletter, they know you’re a good guy. They know you’re worthwhile, but they can’t start losing connectivity with you. And so that’s the primary reason. The primary reason for the banquet is not the fund. It’s the fellowship, the connection, that connection and giving back to people who have given. Absolutely, absolutely. Some of those people are hurting. Some of those people got family prompts. Some of those people have financial pumps. Some of those people are trying to decide whether they send you X number of dollars per month or whether they need to make their car payment or whatever. They’re struggling. And by meeting with them once a year, that helps us strengthen that bond and helps them to see the man of God praying for them, because that could be the difference of making or not making it. Yeah. So who you invite

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:58):
To come to a banquet?

Brad Stine (06:00):
Well, let’s say that you have a mailing list of say 500 people and you know that you got 50 people who give every month, they’re consistent, you know, that, that mine’s going to be there. They’re faithful. Yeah. And then you got maybe another 50, who are they? They have just about our month, a little more sporadic, but they, they loved her minister and they, they, they want to help. And then you have some more people who give occasionally very sporadic, but if you will invite those people, many of them will come and it will help to develop a longer, a better relationship. They’ll want to help you. They see a face to that newsletter. They, they see an opportunity that, Hey, this guy really is making a difference. And there’s some people who cannot go or see he’s champ. They may have a family issue or, or they may have a health issue or whatever, and they’re just not going to go, but they can go by first cue of sending you a check and some of them do.

Brad Stine (07:29):
And, and it’s just a way of loving on people once a year, look them in the eye and thank them and say, look, here’s what’s going on. Here’s what I’ve been doing to, to help the ministry. And let’s say, if you’re in the, if you’re in the ministry of doing open air evangelists work and look them in the eye and say, you know, Joe, you have a, a Spanish descent. I want you to know what happened in Honduras. 146,000 people showed up. And approximately we’ll never know for sure, but a pox way, a fourth, them got born again. Yeah. And you were a part of that because I could not have gone if people like you didn’t give into this ministry. And that’s in the most recent newsletter on page six, I showed you a picture that feel full of faces. Some, most people got pointed can’t because of what you did.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:46):
So if you’re organizing a banquet, the first thing you do is find a venue. You at a hotel or a church, maybe you could cater food or, but a hotel’s a great place because

Brad Stine (09:00):
Shell’s better. And here’s why, because it’s a neutral. Then you, the moment you have an extra 10, there’s nothing wrong with having that at church. But when you have it in a church, if it’s a Baptist church, different denominations may not come. Or if they’ve seen a ag church, same thing. But if you’re in a hotel, if say neutral venue and everybody will come,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:31):
So you’d want to send out invitations to friends from church people, you work with people you might do business with basically anyone that you would normally send a Christmas card to anyway, that you would have a relationship with that you think might be interested in, in supporting the ministry, as well as those who, who already support your ministry. Yep. And then on the invitation, you would include information about the date, the location, the purpose of the banquet. And you would probably include an RSVP envelope for people to respond, to be able to let you know whether they come or not. But then people are very busy these days. So it’s also helpful. The week before the banquet to call every single person who’s RSVP and get their verbal commitment again, that they will be there because some people will have forgotten. Some people will have gotten busy and that will help you with your, your final count for the banquet

Brad Stine (10:34):
Call three times you would call it three times. Here’s why first call.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:38):
When would you be calling them? Give me the timeline.

Brad Stine (10:41):
Mail out the invitations about three weeks before the amount. And I would put it in the notation, save the date. It’s to remind them, take you off their counter and make a note on that date. Save the date. And the first call I would make me probably three or four, maybe five days after you mail. Hey Joe, just one check. Make sure you got [inaudible]. That’s very valid question. No, what, what Amity? Oh, well you’ll probably get it tomorrow, then politics. Haven’t got it yet. If you don’t mind, I’ll just holler at you. Your MOS. Make sure you got on because if he didn’t, for some reason by the way, is your address? One, two, three Apple street. Yup. Okay. Zip code? Yep. Okay. Well, I just want to make sure then I just mailed to the right place. I’ll give you a hard day or two.

Brad Stine (11:47):
And the second phone call. You’re confirming that they did receive the invitation and Oh, by the way, say the date. Yeah. The next time we call them, you call them to see, do you think you and Becky are going to be able to come? We’ve sure. Love to see, you know, it’s been about a year since I’ve seen you so faithfully given to this ministry and there’s some things we just want to bring you up to speed off. I’d love to know what’s going on. And I’ve got a little short video. Want to show you and just hug on you and Oh yeah, we’re coming. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Or name time till say, Oh my gosh. I’m so glad you called. I put it down on my table and I forgot to mention to them. Becky, thank you for calling that little phone call. Sounds a little bit like the first phone call, but it’s not, if it’s caring phone call, you’re letting that person know. You’re really looking forward to seeing them.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:00):
So the first phone call you are asking, did you receive the invitation? And then the second phone call you’re saying sure would love to have you there. Yeah. It would be great to see you. We love you guys. We want to see your faces. Can you please?

Brad Stine (13:16):
Yeah. And the third phone call is, Hey Joe, you know what? I’ve worked on the have roasted chicken. And we’re trying to figure out how many chickens to you know, to get yeah. If chick is going to lay down his life for you. So we want to make sure that we’re, you know, POS thing, the right number of chickens, and then you laugh, you laugh and they say, Oh, you know, I’m, I’m really glad you called, you know, something came up and yada yada yada hour or as a matter of fact, yeah, we are coming. Could we bring our, our kid? Well, how old are they? Well, we got ones 14. Yep. That one can come. And we got one that’s three. No, we’ll have babysitting service for that one. Or you can leave them home with their babysitter. Yeah. Just, it’s just that.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:11):
When does that third phone call come? Is that

Brad Stine (14:15):
Probably about three or four days before the event? Yeah. And you would be shocked. I would say probably 25% of people say, Oh my gosh, I am so glad that you call. I forgot all about it happens all the time.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:36):
Now at a banquet. How many teak people typically show up that say that they’re actually going to come

Brad Stine (14:44):
Well, if the weather’s good and everything looks pretty sharp. You can figure probably about 85%. Yes. If, if, if people say, yep, we’ll be there, rain or shine, you can count on us. We’ll be there. Take that number times 85%.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:09):
One of the things that you’ve done really well at some of your banquets, which I’ve attended banquets, that you’ve hosted for a variety of different ministries here in Tulsa. It’s always wonderful. It’s always a great time of fellowship. And I love hearing about people’s visions. You also do table sponsors and so often you’ll invite people to come and say, your, your table has been sponsored. How, how do you do that? And what’s the importance of that?

Brad Stine (15:37):
Well, that’s a good question. I’m glad you asked it what we endeavor to do. And we usually accomplish it. We want everybody who comes to a banquet to be sponsored by somebody. In other words, we want everybody to eat for free because give an issue will be given unto you. Now I’ll come back to that. I just smoke. There’s another point I want to make on that. So let’s say that table has eight positions, eight chairs. And let’s just say for round numbers, and this is going to vary from different parts of the country. Do you ever parse the world? So these numbers may or may not be correct. Let’s just say in round numbers, $50 per person. Yeah. 50 times eight people is 400. So maybe you say, Hey, $500 a table that covers, you know, having brochures. And you know, it covers the various expenses, the video and so forth

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:47):
And the venue, the venue, and then the food. And then you want to tip the waiter.

Brad Stine (16:52):
Yeah. Everything. Yeah. So let’s just say round numbers of $50 or $500 for a table of eight. Well, a lot of businesses, some buys owns a plumbing company say, Hey Joe, you and a plumbing company tell you what, if you would be interested we’ll, we’ll put this table sponsored by Joe’s plumbing company. And we get along now set from the podium, along with all the other sponsors. And that way you can get a tax write off. If we mention it from the podium, you can get a tax, try it off as add per Ty’s front. Or if you do, you have it. And we don’t announce it. You can get a tax write off as a charitable contribution. But if we do both, you can choose how you want to ride it off, even arrive at off a combination, or you can write it off all one way or all the other way. And it gives you the ability to have a good tax write-off and nice advertisement.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:09):
So in advance before the banquet starts, you’re, you’re going around to different businesses, different people that you have relationships with and asking them to sponsor a table. What would you sponsor? One of the tables that are banquet for for $400. And we’ll announce that you are the sponsor for that table and publicly thank you for being a sponsor. Okay. Then let’s talk about the actual banquet. What should you do during the banquet to talk me through from the moment people arrive at the banquet facility until they leave.

Brad Stine (18:49):
What you do is you put a master plan of you, and that’s basically a brief written description of your ministry on every other chair. And you put them on the chair at a slight angle to make it delightful, to look at. It’s not just swung a carious is prom Nour with purpose, and they have to pick the thing up before they sit down. So now it’s in their hands and say, you want to have it to where they can read it as it was

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:25):
Master plan. We talked about this in the last episode, on the podcast about how to develop a master plan. It’s basically a short description explaining the vision and the objectives and the tactics of the ministry, what the ministry is doing, right? So, so they, they pick it up off their table. They’re sitting there and music is going, as people are coming in and they’re, they’re flipping through it before you even get started. They’re looking at all the pictures, right? Finding out what your ministry is all about.

Brad Stine (19:56):
Yep. And what we do is we go ahead and maybe start eating their salad while people are filtering in. And of course they’re talking with each other they’re fellowshipping. And then when the meeting actually officially starts, you start with a prayer and then the food should be starting to be served when they say, amen, that’s a signal to the venue to start delivering the food when they hear that word. Amen. Not before, but when they hear the word, amen, boom, the food shows up. Now this, what I’m about to say is very, very important.

Brad Stine (20:45):
The master ceremonies says, folks, look around you here, got beautiful channeled layers. Got it. Beautiful room, great food, great fellowship. And guess what it’s already paid for whatever you give later tonight, a hundred percent goes to the gospel because all of this was paid for in advance, by the following sponsors. And then you name office sponsors in alphabetical order. So nobody’s feelings get hurt, have malls, sand clap. One time when they’re all standing, don’t clap where you came to visual want, but when they’re all standing and then you clap for them and that gives them their tax write-off. But it also lets the people know that this wonderful banquet is already paid for. And that helps them to realize they can feel comfortable with opening up their wallets and their bill holds. Now along those lines, 90% of the money brought in to the banquet that night is him ladies purses. It’s in ladies persists. It’s not in the wallets. That’s right. It’s in the ladies.

Brad Stine (22:25):
Now this is very, very important. If the minister, the missionary, if he’s married, when he gets up to speak, he has his wife go up there with him and have her speak par I’d say 10, 15 minutes. And then he’ll speak for maybe 30 minutes. Not for an hour short, sweet to the point. But here’s, what’s important. The women. And I’ve seen this hundreds of times. I’m not telling you guys. Yeah, others. Yeah. The women tend to sit there with their arms folded and their purse is on their, on their lap or on the table or their arms are folded and they’re listening. And when the minister’s wife, missionary’s wife gets up there and she’ll say something like this, you know, when I married Ronald, I knew life was going to be different. All the women start

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
Because they experienced the same thing.

Brad Stine (23:48):
Yeah. She’ll say something like, Oh my goodness. Yes, it’s been different, but I want you to know I’m behind my man. We are making a difference in Tanzania. We can see that difference. I’m so glad that we both bayed God and have gone there and had done when he asked us to do. Now, when she says that all around the room, the women go from like this to like

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:34):
Fold their arms and lean forward, lean

Brad Stine (24:36):
Forward. And they think, Oh, she’s behind her man. And then when her husband says, well, honey, how much she thinks we should go tonight? And she says, well, what number do you have in mind? And he says, well, what number do you have in line? She says, you know, I think we should give him a hotter a month. And he says, you know, I was thinking the same thing with one exception. We’re busy people, we’re business people. We write checks all the time. And I really don’t want to write a check for a hundred dollars every month, but it’s just write him a check for 1200.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:31):
Well, those are valuable insights and how to conduct a successful banquet. Yeah. And so it’s also good to maybe show a video or a slide show of pictures.

Brad Stine (25:45):
There’s on the video five minutes now. Here’s why, sorry.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:50):
Yeah, no, Y Y only five minutes or your region. What’s the reason

Brad Stine (25:55):
There’s a reason you bring them in. The guy worked all day and all he really wants to do is eat and fall asleep on the couch.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:09):
His wife’s making him dress up and go to this banquet.

Brad Stine (26:12):
Exactly. Right. And she sees it as a date. Oh, I get, I don’t have to, I don’t have to cook tonight. I can put the kids with a babysitter

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:27):
And I’m laughing because this is so accurate. This is how my wife thinks about it.

Brad Stine (26:31):
Yeah. And all he really is thinking is what am I doing here? But when he sees the beautiful food, the happy wife dressed up to the ninth, what you don’t want to, you feed him and turn off the light because he’ll fall asleep. So you got to keep the video to three to five minutes

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:13):
And maybe put some upbeat music behind it.

Brad Stine (27:18):
Couple of booms, you know, sub whooper booms or something. Something that keep it lively because otherwise you could lose him.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:28):
Other things you can do is share stories about people whose lives have been impacted by the ministry. You can give details about your, your goals and projects for the coming year. Another thing that I’ve seen you do is if you have a ministry that’s working over in Africa, sometimes you’ll have someone from Africa actually call on the phone and do a live phone call talking about the programs that are ongoing in Africa. And so that gives it some, some flavor. It helps to entertain people, but also communicates the vision of what the ministry is going to do. And then you come to the point where you’re making an ask and you present some different projects. What do you think about monthly support versus asking for one-time donations?

Brad Stine (28:23):
Well, I would ask her the one-time donations first and then,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:31):
And maybe give a specific target. We need $30,000 to build this orphanage building or something very specific

Brad Stine (28:39):
Sick tonight. Our basic need is we’ve got an orphanage over there. We got, we’ve got 114 kids and they’re not going to school and they need to be going to school. And after this moment we got 40 of them have no mommies, no daddies. And they need a place to sleep at night where they’re not being afraid of being bitten by an animal or, or, or some kind of a predator or giving them. And so tonight we need to, we need to raise money for, for, for an orphanage. And we’ve checked with the local authorities we’ve checked with you know, the bowlers and so forth. And we can build a whole thing for $46,000. Now we could not build it here for 46,000, but we’re, we’re building it because of the building codes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We can build a whole thing for $46,000. And we’ve got here tonight. Yeah. You know, 104, 140 people. And you know, we’re not talking about a lot of money. And so we would really appreciate if you could just help us out. Cause a world away. We’ve got some people who are really in trouble and they’ll have clean water to drink and they’ll be able to sleep all night without worrying about being molested. We really need to help them.

Brad Stine (30:22):
And then after that money is coming in, then you say also there are some people for whatever the reason may want to budget so many dollars a month, as opposed to one time offering. And we have the different methods for doing that. You can either use your phone and text the money and it’ll automatically come out of your town or you can text the money and it’ll come out as you see fit. And then he go a few of the different methods of faking him three or four different options. And you’d be shocked at how much money comes in.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:07):
Let’s finish with some testimonies in all the banquets that you’ve done. What’s the most money that you’ve seen come in on one night and then all the bankers will you do. And w what’s kind of the average amount that you’ve seen come in per person on a typical banquet. I know there’s a lot of variety, but give me that, give me the high point. What’s the greatest banquet you’ve ever done.

Brad Stine (31:33):
Well, I’ll tell you the worst and the best. Alright. Maybe the best and the worst. I don’t know. I think of them, but I’m going to tell you one particular one. This is a wild one. This is a wild one. We’ve put together a banquet for, Oh, it was around a hundred people. And it was a missionary to the Indian nations here in the United States. And after the bank was over, missionary said to us, he said, well, after we take the expenses, the banquet money leftover just to over a hundred bucks. And then he cussed me out.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:27):
At least you paid for the banquet.

Brad Stine (32:29):
He literally cussed me out. Wow. That doesn’t happen very often. But I’ll tell you what I did. I hope that wasn’t the best one. That, that was the worst one, right? Oh, that was, let me finish. And then you’ll know. Are we having fun yet? Yes. There. Okay. So I’m, we’ll call him Joe. His name was not Joe. Let’s say Joe, it’s obvious that you’re not happy. Quite frankly. I don’t remember him being cussed out by a missionary before, but I can S I can understand if only a hundred dollars came in after he pay your expenses, that you might wonder what happened. So I’m going to give you a little advice. He says what’s that?. I said, “shut up.” He looked at me like, I shot him. I said, you don’t know what kidney ready to happen? You don’t know how this is going to turn out and you should not eat your seed. Oh, shut up. He looked like hyped to shot him, but he shut up Daniel about a little over a week later, he got a check in the mail from one person that was a hundred thousand dollars. Wow. I hope he came and apologized to you. He did.

Brad Stine (34:19):
And they got another check and he got some other check. And overall came to Rob about 200,000 bucks. Well, but see what happened is some people, they, they, they listen to the presentation, but they give a day or two later. Sometimes uncle Joe passes away and losing money. No things happen. Sure. Now I’ve, I’ve seen other cases where one case the ministry here in Tulsa, so probably maybe 30 years ago and about 130 hundred 40 people now understand this is poverty, 30 years, 35 years ago. But on that banquet, the amount of money came in with maybe off slide. Well, I think it’s pretty close around 65,000 bucks. Now, if you put that in today’s money, that would be at least double that, Oh yeah. Oh, popping 150, 160, 170,000, maybe 200. I don’t know. Somewhere in that range.

Brad Stine (35:47):
Kamia that night. So here’s the point. Don’t try to figure it out. Let God be God, you do your part. He will do his part. His arm is not sure. Just go with the flow and realize that the main purpose for the banquet is to have the opportunity to see those people who’ve been with you. Well, I asked you a year, it’s not a one way ticket. You don’t receive, receive, receive, receive, receive, receive you receive. Yeah. You’re giving back to them a report of what you’ve been doing with the money that they so wonderfully put it in your hands. It’s a two-way street.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:44):
That’s a tremendous insight. So a banquet is an opportunity to give back to people who have given to you to connect with them, to let them know that you love them, that you’re praying for them, that you care about them. It’s an opportunity for wives to get dressed up pretty and for husbands to go and get some good food. And it’s an opportunity for you to communicate the vision of the ministry that God has called you to. So, Mr. Brad, thank you so much for sharing information about how to hold a successful banquet. If you’re interested in holding a banquet and you need some help, give Mr. Brad a call, you can find his information at his website, harvest homeland.org. And if you’ll go to that website, you can connect with him. And he helps lots of ministries put together banquets that are really successful. You have one more thing.

Brad Stine (37:44):
One more comment, just thought of it. Audit told you sooner. Yeah. I just thought of it. A lot of missionaries itinerate. They come back from the field. They’ll come back for maybe three months, two months, and they’ll either generate around the United States to raise funds to go back or for maybe here, but keep in mind that banquets you, the missionary decide when and where to have the banquet. When your eyes can aerating typically pastors of churches or organizations, they decide when they want you to come. And so typically missionaries zigzag back and forth across the country. And by the time we’re ready to go back overseas to their mystery field, they’re tired. It’s almost a breath of fresh air to get back on the pill because they can relax.

Brad Stine (38:54):
But when you have a series of banquets, you decided, and so you can make a circle around the country. And then when you’re going to have, for example, in Milwaukee, on on March 14th, you’re going to have a banquet. You pick up the phone and the pastor in that area and say, pastor, you said to me that when I was coming through the area to call you, and then you’d have me speak well, as a matter of fact, I’m going to have a banquet there on substance so day. And so I’m calling you. I had a time to let us know I’m going to be in the area for a banquet. And he said, Oh, great. Well, why don’t we schedule you in a percent day, morning? And now you’re hitting two or three things simultaneously, and you’re making one circle around the country and your efficiency goes through the roof.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:55):
Well, thank you Mr. Brad Stein expert on doing banquets for ministries. Thank you so much for your wisdom and for your advice. Thank you for being a guest on the evangelism podcast. God bless you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to this podcast with Mr. Brad Stein, could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes subscribe and give us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thanks. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (40:31):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Brad Stine has a heart for helping ministries get organized and raise support. One of the first steps he recommends is developing a Masterplan for your ministry. Today, we discuss what a Masterplan looks like and how it can help you as a minister.

A Masterplan needs the following elements. One page of the Masterplan should be devoted to each of these categories:

Here is a sample Masterplan: http://www.harvesthomeland.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/HH-Master-Plan-Short-Form.pdf

Harvest For The Homeland is a non-profit organization that assists visionaries throughout the world in supporting their vision.

Harvest for the Homeland Foundation helps ministries in the following areas:

• Teamwork –
     Includes: Visionary, Pro-Visionary, Connector, Facilitator and Recipient
• Timeline –
     Includes: Initial, Formative, Recognition, Planning and Fulfillment Seasons
• Outcome –
     Includes: Principles, Examples, Comparisons, Operations and Applications
• Planning –
     Includes: Vision, Mission, Objectives, Strategy and Tactics
• Resources –
     Includes: Curriculum, Policies, Reading, Media and Testing

Website: http://www.harvesthomeland.org/ 

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Brad Stein has a heart for helping ministries get organized and to raise support. One of the first steps he recommends is developing a master plan for your ministry. Today, we discuss what a master plan looks like and how it can help you. As a minister,

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:18):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King we’re Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host missionary and evangelist Daniel King

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:55):
To the evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King. And I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I also love coaching other evangelists and missionaries and pastors helping them to develop their ministries. And so today we have a very special guest who happens to be an expert in helping ministries, Brad Stein, thank you for being with me today. So Brad Stein, he really has a heart for helping ministries get organized and raise support. And one of the first steps he recommends is developing a master plan for your ministry. And so this is something that we met together about back when I was first starting in ministry, I was very young. I was still a student at oral Roberts university, and you sat me down and told me, Daniel, you need to develop a master plan for your ministry. And you helped me do that. And it helped me in articulating the vision that God had given me. And we used it later to raise money at a banquet, and I gave it to various businessman to show them what I was doing. And so Mr. Brad, could you tell us a little bit, what is a master plan and why is it important to have one?

Brad Stine (02:21):
Well you in business, they call it a business plan in ministries. They call it a ministry plan, but I use a catchall praise master plan, which is kind of a, it’s a business plan, but it’s also a ministry plan and he has the masters plan,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:49):
The master’s plan. Now there’s plan. You understand how businessmen think because you were a businessman for, for many years, and then once you retired, then you started helping ministries. And now you’ve helped many, many ministries besides my own, maybe up to 300 or even more ministries that, that you have sat down with, help them to develop a master plan. And really the purpose of it is to help relate to two businessmen. The people who have the resources to support a ministry, every ministry would have a visionary, someone that God gives a vision to. But along with the visionary, there needs to be pro visionaries. People who have resources to invest in the plan that that God has. So talk to me a little bit about from your background as a businessman, why is it important to have a business plan or a master plan in order to communicate what God has called you to do?

Brad Stine (03:52):
Well, the majority of the business people realize that if they’re going to expend thousands and sometimes millions of dollars, and sometimes they have investors involved, they have to have a definite plan that they can follow that will help them to earn that kind of money and to help them to stay on schedule with what they planned to do. So they don’t go off on the might say rabbit trails, they stay focused. And I think that’s also true probably with, with ministries. I, over the years, I’ve seen so many ministries who go out on the field and they fail and they come back broken heart, but I’ve also seen some ministries go out on the field and just really do a great job. You know, a lot of people born, again, a lot of, a lot of good things happen. I’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly. And so it occurred to me that maybe I needed to put together a, a master plan that would help these people to stay in focus. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:03):
Well, I hope you would include my ministry in one of those good categories. Ever since we put together the master plan, it was about 20 years ago. I think that we worked on it. And since then, I’ve gone to over 70 nations preaching the gospel. We’ve seen over 2 million people get saved in our services and today, and the goal was to become a sole millionaire to lead a million people to Jesus before I turned 30 years of age. And we completed that goal in, in part because of you helping us to put together this master plan. So today for this podcast, I went and dug in, in my files and pulled out one of the copies of the master plan that we had developed. And I still look very young in this. I I’m surprised anyone would give me money looking that, or you

Brad Stine (05:58):
Still actually look very young. Well it’s relative though

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:03):
Years older now than I was then. But and I remember us going through this. We, we did a vision, a mission statement strategy, and I, I articulated some of what God had called me to do. And in here in my master plan, I had several areas that I really wanted God to, to help us to do. So one was massive miracle crusades. Another area was literature distribution. Another area was leadership training. And in that master plan, we had specific tactics and in different ways of accomplishing that. And so I’m excited to tell you today that 20 years later, all those things that we put in the master plan God has brought to pass, which is just amazing to me that if you will write the vision down, then he who reads it may run with it. They can go and do something great for God. And we’ve been able to raise a lot of money from, from businessmen and different people over the years, just showing them this master plan. And then I’ve, I’ve refurbished it and re used it in different ways, in different ways of articulating the vision. So tell me some stories about some of the other ministries that you’ve been able to help. I see here, you have a variety of, of master plans in front of you. Yeah.

Brad Stine (07:27):
A few with Nate just to, Oh, I’ve got quite a few of them, but I’ve just picked out a few. That might be a Pinterest, you know?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:36):
Yeah, no, I remember that you, you break the master plan down into several segments. And so, yeah, I was looking on, on your, your, your website for the, the heart harvest for the Homeland foundation now, and in, in your master plan, would you have there as a sample, you have several specific areas, you’ve got the vision and then you’ve got the mission. Then you’ve got a page on objectives, a page on strategy, a page on tactics, a page on teamwork, and then a page for connection, how they, people can connect with you. So let’s go through those one by one. And if you could define those for us and then explain why it’s important and maybe how to articulate that,

Brad Stine (08:26):
Okay, I’d be glad to now Daniel every body is called by God to do something. We all have a calling on our life and that calling, we did not come up with that calling that calling took place before we were even conceived. We have no control it. We can choose not to do it, but we, but the calling was put in place before we were even conceived. And that calling, if you would pretend it as a point that point right here, that’s the calling. We have no control over that. Now when God wants us to start achieving that calling, he gives us a vision. Now, if this can, this camera see this, okay? If this is a calling and this is the vision, then that’s the direction we should go.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:44):
So you have a calling and you have your vision and you’re headed in that direction. And it’s

Brad Stine (09:48):
Straight line that’s exactly right now, the calling does not change. That happened before we were even conceived. Now the vision can change, but the calling does not change. So if you, if the calling is, let’s say your elbow, then the vision is out here and it gives you the direction. You have to have two points in our frustrate line to have direction. And so since the coin is doesn’t move, it’s mutable, it stays put then the vision as it modifies and cracks, that gives us the direction that we should go. So the first thing in the master plan is the vision,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:43):
The vision. And you define a vision as an aspirational description of what an organization would Lank to achieve or accomplish in the mid or longterm future. And so the vision is where you’re headed. It’s the destination that you’re headed towards. So, so I think in, in, in my case, my calling ever since I was very young, was to be an evangelist. Like God put that calling on my life. I’m called to be an evangelist. It was spoken over me by, by several profits. It was a desire that God put in my heart. It was confirmed by the books that I read and that the things that made me excited, but within the calling of being an evangelist, there’s a variety of things that I could have done. I could have done local church evangelism. I could’ve done a one-on-one evangelism. I could have done street preaching, but the, the vision, as I articulated, it became to do massive miracle crusades like Billy Graham used to do back in the day. And so that was the vision. So the, the calling to be an evangelist and the vision lined up together.

Brad Stine (11:55):
Now that’s exactly right now, many people, they will follow the vision that they want to follow. And it may be pretty close to what the Lord would have him to follow, but maybe not exactly there, maybe their vision is here, but they’re actually operating over here or they’re operating over here. And we have to be very careful that if we’re following two visions, that is the high vision division. So to protect ourselves from division is we need to inquire the Lord, take her time. Don’t be in a hurry choir, the Lord, and find out what he wants us to fall.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:51):
Yeah. If you aim an arrow at two different targets, you’re going to miss both of them. So you gotta know which target you’re going for. And I like what you say about taking time to, to find the vision. I think it would be a good idea to spend some time in fasting and prayer, really get the Lord’s direction, what the vision of your life is supposed to be. So, so if you were sitting down with someone who wanted to be in ministry, but hadn’t really articulated what they wanted to do, what advice would you give them for, for, for writing down their vision or finding the vision,

Brad Stine (13:28):
Don’t go off half, take your time, pray fast, seek for the Lord. Take your time. Before you jump out here, the vision has to do with what you’re responsible for. And many, many people follow their mission and mission and vision are two totally separate things. Many times I’ve seen vision statements and I’ve seen mission statements and I’ve seen mission and vision savings and vision and mission statements. And there seems to be a lot of folks that don’t understand that difference between the two and the differences real simple. The vision is what’s to responsible for. And the mission is the authorization to proceed and they don’t happen at the same time. First you give to vision, and that’s what God has made you responsible for that lines up with your calling. And then as you train and learn and develop what that vision is that’s, you’re supposed to follow. Then later comes the mission. It’s like in the military, in the military, the vision in [inaudible] the vision in the military is to uphold the constitution. I say, that’s our vision. And our mission comes later. It comes after bootcamp. It comes after other basic training. So far there’s a time lag between vision and mission, mission bang, the authority to proceed.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:26):
So I noticed that in your master plan, you, you actually have the vision and the mission on two separate pages. So, so you first have the vision, which was this aspirational description of what the organization would like to achieve. And then you define a mission as a written declaration of an organization’s core purpose and focus that normally remains on changed over time. So let’s just create a hypothetical hearsay. You have a someone who’s who comes in and says that they, they have a desire to, to feed the poor. So, so give me a vision for a ministry and give me a mission for that ministry. What’s the, what would that look like?

Brad Stine (16:09):
Vision could be that you have a an inner feeling, a gut feeling that there’s a lot of people who are going to bed hungry at night, and a lot of children are that are hungry and they’re not learning properly because they’re hungry and, and, and, and, and stirs you, you realize, you know, I’m needing to do something about that. And, and the vision starts to form in your mind that I need you to do something about that. And, and it very well could be tied to your calling. God may have called you to do that. And as you proceed to explore that area and read up on that area and learn about that area, and it starts to become kind of a part of you, then it’s very possible that that is what you’re responsible for. And that gives you the direction to proceed.

Brad Stine (17:05):
Now, the mission, let’s say this, you know, this, your vision is to, to help people to have food, but to get on the airplane and to go to a foreign land and to actually start developing feeding programs, or even here doing this in the United States, you’d better know what you’re doing. You better learn up on the customs. You better learn up on what’s really causing the, the food shortage to begin with. You better know what you’re doing before you step out here and start literally doing it. I personally have seen several where people went into the ministry too quickly. They try to proceed on their mission before they were ready. And they came home in a box in the bottom of an airplane, their vision and mission totally destroyed.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:09):
So the, the planning process is very important in the Holy spirit is very much involved in the entire planning process. Absolutely. I think it’s interesting that God put the date for the marriage supper of the lamb on his calendar over 6,000 years in advance. So, you know, God’s a planner, he’s thinking ahead, he is a planner and we should be planners too. And spend time doing the research, doing the, the, looking at different organizations that are doing something similar, looking at the demographics of the area that we feel called to, and then articulating how we’re going to actually fulfill the vision that God has given us. All right, the next step is objectives. And so you define objectives as a specific result that a person or system aims to achieve within a timeframe with available resources in general objectives are more specific and easier to measure than goals. And so you define goals as the result or achievement towards which effort is directed, the aim or the end. So, so you, you choose to articulate objectives and how are objectives different than goals? Why, why do you choose to make that distinction?

Brad Stine (19:26):
They are actually quite similar. I have over the years, I have consulted with many perf professors at different universities and military people, sales people accountants I’ve, I’ve really delved into this a lot. And basically goals are the way that [inaudible] people measure success and how sales people measure success. Objectives is more or less how military people measure success. So objectives and goals, they, they’re very, very similar. They’re just used by different types of people, but empirically speaking, they’re, they’re plaques. Why the same thing now, as it relates to the master plan, perse, you have your vision either direction. And then you’ve got your mission. That is a reef. That’s where you develop your authority to proceed and then come to the objectives. And the objectives basically are breaking down that mission into smaller pieces so that you have a way to measure your success. If your objective is to provide a thousand meals a month to poor people, and you hit that thousand, then you accomplished that object. Yah, it’s a way of measuring.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:18):
So an objective can be more specific. It has maybe a timeframe attached to it. So in objective would be, we want to feed a thousand people every month. And then that that’s very specific. That’s something you can measure either. You did it or you didn’t do it. And you can know whether you’re, you’re hitting something specific. Whereas a vision is more aspirational. A vision is, you know, feed the hungry. Yeah. It’s, it’s a big goal, you know, we want to, but then you, you take the, the mission and say, we want to feed the hungry in South Tulsa in these three neighborhoods. And then an objective would be, we want to give away a thousand meals in these neighborhoods each month.

Brad Stine (22:08):
Yep. That’s exactly right. If it’s a further breakdown, your, your vision is, is tied to what you’re called to do. Your mission is your authority to proceed after you’ve gotten specific training and then your objectives is breaking down that re that mission into sections. Yeah, that’s exactly right. It’s measurable.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:36):
Then the next word that you use is strategy, which is a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim or end. So then explain to us what, what strategy is. Okay.

Brad Stine (22:53):
Yeah. Let’s say that. Let’s say the cure vision is to, to feed people that are disadvantaged. Your mission is to feed people and LA in a certain neighborhood, and it’s more narrowed down and the way you’re going to accomplish it is you’re gonna have some of Jack shoes. One of them might be to have a weekly meeting, whether people come and give some groceries or, or whatever it is. And then the next level, the strategy is how you’re going to do it. The objective is what you want to accomplish. The strategy is how you’re going to do it. For example, in the military, if the objective is to take Hill number seven, 14, the strategy might be, we’re going to use tanks and we’re going to use their airplanes, but we’re, we’re not going to use foot soldiers because there’s a cliff and that we can’t get up very easily. So we’re going to use airplanes and we’re going to use tanks and shoot, no, it was what equipment you’re going to use or what method you’re going to use, how you’re going to accomplish the objective.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:34):
And then the next level is tactics, which is done for use in immediate support of a strategy. So a tool plan or procedure to promote a desired in. So, so you have the strategy. We’re going to use tanks and planes to take this Hill. And then what would be the specific tactics we’re going to? Is it the route the tanks are going to take to the top of the

Brad Stine (25:01):
Tanks? Pardon me? Tactics is rolling up your sleeves and doing it. You know, I have run into many, many people over the years. They’ve got great ideas. They’ve got it all planned out. They’ve got it all written out, but they don’t actually wall up their sleeves and do the work they think about it, but they don’t actually do it. And tactics is hands-on getting their hands dirty, getting, you know, getting in there and literally doing the grunt work, making it happen as tactical. So as it relates to the tanks and, and, and, and the aircraft that is who’s going to go in first, does the tanks kind of go in with air support or is the airport air support going to go in and soften things up? So the tank screen getting in the other ones, that’s where you literally figure out every little detail of how you’re going to roll up your sleeves and be there and make it happen. And then the

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:19):
Next page in your master plan is labeled teamwork, which I think is very important, especially for the visionary, because anything that God calls you to do, he doesn’t call you to do alone. If you could do it by yourself, it’s not a big enough vision for God to be involved in. And so he gives visions that are going to require other people, other talents, other resources. And so teamwork is the way to invite other people to be involved. Particularly one of the businessmen that you give the master plan to you’re, you’re inviting him to join the team into participate in the, the vision, the mission, the, and, and, and being involved in, in helping to financially support what you’re trying to do. And I liked the phrase that those who plant and those who water and those that harvest all sharing the same reward. And so whether you’re the one who is planting or you’re watering, or you’re actually out there harvesting, whether you’re the evangelists going out there and preaching on the platform, or you’re the businessman who writes a, a $50,000 check to send the evangelist, you both share in the same reward in heaven. And so team where you want to talk a little bit about teamwork and why it’s,

Brad Stine (27:41):
But I would like to make a comment. Yeah. Just before that we’ve all heard the scripture faith without works is dead being alone, right? Yeah. And we’ve heard faith is the substance of things hoped for, right? Yeah. Let’s try this on for size. Let’s look up the word strategy above the word strategy subject. Yes, I, faith is the substance of things hoped for, or another words. Strategy is to help accomplish your hopes, which are your objectives. You cannot give sure check juice accomplish. If you don’t have a strategy to how you’re going to apply it.

Brad Stine (28:54):
Now, conversely, above below the worst strategy is the word tactics. That’s where you roll up your sleeves and do the work. All right. Faith is faith without works is dead. It’s dead. So I submit to you that faith has a lot to do with strategy. It’s between the two it’s it’s below the objectives, and it’s above the tactics. Now let’s try that on per size. You open the Bible and that Bible a lot along with other things, tells you how to you think it tells you how not to do things. It’s a book of strategy. It’s a book of a lot of things, but it is also a book of strategy. If you do this, this is what’s going to happen. If you do this, this isn’t going to happen. Do this, don’t do that, do this. Don’t do that. It’s a book strategy. And as a result of that, you accomplish your objectives and you are able to achieve through tactics and result. That’s very scriptural. And I have seen over the years, I’ve talked with different people in different walks of life, military people, and college professors so forth. And they go, where did you get? I said, all the Bible is there. And they said, Oh, I like that. That’s right.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:54):
Yeah. I like how you’re attaching these military or business terms to biblical terms. Yeah, because there’s a parallel. And one of the best manuals for business is actually the Bible. You can learn a lot about business, looking at the Bible.

Brad Stine (31:15):
Okay. Now, as it relates to teamwork, which you asked that question and I haven’t forgotten it when everybody does their park, some people, their job is to plan the whole play. Some people’s job is to implement different people, have different functions in the body of Christ. And if we’ll just stay in our lane and concentrate on our part, it’s like when I was in school, I used to be in a relay races. And the structure said, if you’re in a relay race, you put your hand out here, put it back slightly and do not start running until you feel that Baton hit your hand. And when that does, don’t look back. But when he hits your hand, grab it and run and stay in your lane. Don’t be thinking about the guy next to you and hearing his footsteps. Or if you turn and look at him, you may fall and hurt yourself, just concentrated on your part of the job. And if you, as a team, we’ll each do job as a team, go get more accomplished.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:45):
That’s a great insight. I mean, ultimately we are all running for the prize that Jesus has for us. And none of us do it alone. Do, do you think that some people try to be visionaries when really they may be, would be more suited for working at the tactical level? Yes. And how would you coach someone who is in that situation?

Brad Stine (33:16):
If you are already a visionary, you probably know you are a visionary. And I tell people all the time. I said, now, if you’re, if you’re the top dog in your ministry, if you’re the visionary, occasionally someone will come up through the ranks. That’s also a visionary. And if you’re not careful, you will consider them to be threat to your organization and route. And in reality, only a visionary can train a visionary. You cannot relegate that when they come up through the ranks, you need dynamic. Are they there to hurt you? Or are they there to, to learn from you? And if you see that they’re there to, to learn from you, you need to train them. And they may not see things exactly like you do. But if they’re going to learn from you and then go off into their own ministry and you’ve accomplished what God wanted, none.

Brad Stine (34:37):
But if you said, sir, and start button head, you could just draw that new visionary. And they never do go in to the minister, the way that they were supposed to. Now, the visionary has under him, pro visionaries, connectors, facilitators, recipient. Now the team has five types of people. Visionaries. There’s usually one of those at the top. Sometimes there’s a second one, but they’re usually moving on into another thing. Then you’ve got the provisioners are the ones who provide the necessary finances, equipment, et cetera, to the visionary. Then you’ve got your connectors. They’re the people who hook different people together. A lot of them don’t actually do the work. They don’t actually roll up their sleeves, but they’re very valuable because they get the visionary introduced to somebody who can maybe help them financially or, or whatever. Then you got your facilitator chairs. They’re the people who roll up their sleeves and do the grunt work.

Brad Stine (36:02):
You gotta have them. You know, you can set Sharon plan till the cows come home. But if there’s nobody willing to roll up their sleeves and do the grunt work, it’s not going to get done. But the last one is the most important for them. And that’s the recipient. For example, in a family, there’s a mom and a dad sat a couple kit. The kids are the recipient, but the kids don’t remain recipient. They grow up and they are the future generation of visionaries and provisioners and connectors and facilitators. But recipients are the ones who keep growing up. And so in the ministry, if you’re in charge of a ministry, realized it’s a recipient are only temporary. They’re going to become future one of those other four. And so you have a Lavonne change, your diapers. Yeah. Feed him, encourage him, hug them and affirm them. And they will grow to become one of the other poor.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:31):
That’s a great insight. I love it. All right. So if you’re putting together a master plan in your master plan, you have one page devoted to each of these items and is not completely full of texts. You might put pictures that communicate the vision there in the master plan. And so you would have one page for the vision and then one page for the mission. And then one page for specific objectives you’re trying to achieve. Then you’ve got your strategy page. You’ve got your tactics page, you’ve got your teamwork page. And then the connection page. So really a master plan. Isn’t that long you’ve got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, seven, or eight pages. You might need to put one more, one or two more pages in, depending on, on how many objectives you have and how much you want to talk about your team, but you just have it, the short little document. And then you’re going to use that document to, to bring in support for your ministry and play the part of, of a businessman. Who’s looking at this. Why would a master plan be important to give to a businessman that you’re asking for money?

Brad Stine (38:47):
Well, business people in general and nets. There’s lots of women there that are very, very good business people, but business people in, in, in general, they have trained himself or have been trained to concentrate on the goal ahead of them. And to not allow themselves to be distracted by events or issues, that’s going to knock them off of their objective or their goal. And so business people for that reason can usually spot another business person, just like a coach can probably spot the coaches, you know, or the, the instructor or college professor can usually he can pretty well spot those who are in the educational area. Business. People can spot those people. And when they see that you as a ministry or a missionary have a definite plan, they will tend to gravitate toward you because they recognize that you understand that this stuff don’t just happen.

Brad Stine (40:12):
You have to plan. They call that plan, the work and work. The plan sounds oversimplified, but there’s really a lot of truth to that. Perse, you plan your work and then you work your plan because I’ll tell you in the 11th hour, it’s late at night, lights are off, you’re laying there in bed. You haven’t fallen asleep yet. And if you don’t have a plan, you probably are going to have a hard time to fall asleep because you wandering you’re wavering. And, and if you have a plan and you know that it’s of God, you’ve taken the time, he knows. So God, you know, that you can proceed on that plan and that God’s with you, that God’s with you. Nothing can be against you. And if God’s now with you, don’t proceed into it in the first place.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (41:13):
Well, if you’re just starting out in ministry, I’d encourage you to take the time to develop a master plan. If you want more information on how to do that effectively, you can go to Brad steins website, harvest homeland.org, and you’ll see more information there on how to be effective at putting together a master plan, brother, Brad, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. There’s one more little comment. One more comment. We need one more. Okay.

Brad Stine (41:44):
When you go to the website, that master plan is not a normal master plan, that’s got all the elements in it. It’s kind of like a menu. When you go in a restaurant, you don’t order the whole menu. You pick up something that you need. And that master plan on the website has just about everything packed into it. But in actuality, you use only portions of it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (42:14):
Well, thank you Mr. Brad. It’s wonderful to have you on the evangelism podcast and thank you for coaching us through the process of putting together a master plan. God bless you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to this podcast with Mr. Brad Stein, could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes, subscribe and give us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thanks. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (42:49):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Pat Kendall uses Evangelism Explosion, the material written by Dr. James Kennedy, to lead a local church evangelism group. Today we discuss how to ignite an Evangelism Explosion in your church.

Outline of the Gospel from Dr. James Kennedy:

A. Grace

1.  Heaven is a free gift
2. It is not earned or deserved.

B. Man

1. Is a sinner
2. Cannot save himself.

C. God

1. Is merciful – therefore He doesn’t want to punish us.
2. Is just – therefore He must punish sin.

D. Christ

1. Who He is – the infinite God-Man
2. What He did – He died on the cross and rose from the dead to pay the penalty for our sins and to purchase a place for us, which He offers as a gift.

E. Faith

1. What it is not – mere intellectual assent or mere temporal faith.
2. What it is – trusting in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life.

Order a copy of Evangelism Explosion by clicking below: 

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Pat Kendall uses evangelism explosion. The material written by Dr. James Kennedy to lead a local church evangelism group. Today, we discuss how to ignite an evangelism explosion in yours.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:15):
Church. Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be say, welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:52):
Evangelism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest Pat Kendall uses evangelism explosion, the material that was written by Dr. James Kennedy to lead a local church evangelism group. And he’s done that for many years. And so today we’re going to discuss how to ignite an evangelism explosion in your church, brother, Pat, thank you so much for being with me. Well, glad to be here, Daniel. Thank you. Well, let’s start out with how you got saved. What, what happened to lead you to Jesus? Well,

Pat Kendall (01:31):
My life kind of fell apart. Things happened and I was kind of all by myself. I went from a wife, two children and my dog to just me and my dog in a period of about three or four weeks and life just kind of came to a halt. A lady next door took me to church and I sat through a, what it was, was a Pentecostal tent revival. And at the age of 42, I walked forward when the gentlemen, the pastor said, you know, anybody that wants to know Jesus more, more, better come forward. And so I went forward and just gave up. It was very odd that day. I didn’t pray. I just raised my hands with tears, flowing down my cheeks and the tears quit. And just grace came over me. I felt him inner me and my body changed. My physical nature, changed.

Pat Kendall (02:20):
My spirit changed. And when I turned and walked away from that altar, I was a different person. And reflecting back on it shortly after that, I I said, Lord, I said, you know, I didn’t pray when I was up there that day. And I didn’t hear it audibly, but I heard him say with a smile. Well, you know, it’s okay with me, but if you need to pray, why don’t you go to go ahead and that’d be just fine. And so so that was, that was my experience in that tent meeting Jesus. And in the 42 years of my life, I had had visitation at my house. I’d lived in the same house for about 25, 30 years at that time. And many times during that period of time, churches had combined knocked on the door and said, Hey, why don’t you come to church Sunday? It’d be wonderful to see you at church Sunday, but nobody ever shared the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ with me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:11):
So how did you first get exposed to evangelism explosion?

Pat Kendall (03:16):
Well, about a year and a half after that, I a gentleman and I were talking about churches and some things at that church were changing and I was kind of looking and he said, well, Hey, why don’t you come by our church and see what we do? And so I went to his church, which is Bible church here in Tulsa and was there all, probably six, eight months and talk to a gentleman, my mentor and he Bob Nichols and Bob said, well, you know, he said, we do a little deal. He said, I think he might be real interested in. And so he invited me into the evangelism explosion program that they had there at their church. And I was in it all about two and a half years in that church and became a trainer and just did a lot of work with them.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:01):
So evangelism explosion was written by Dr. James Kennedy, great pastor has a great evangelistic heart. And he put together this method for training people to share their faith. Could you share with our listeners how the program works and, and how it’s set up? Well, you know,

Pat Kendall (04:20):
Just a little bit more history on it in the sixties, Dr. Kennedy went to an evangelism conference and was invited there to speak on evangelism. And so he did his presentation and after one of the days of the conference, he and the pastor that church went out, knocking on doors. And when the pastor knocked on the door and he told James Kennedy just step up and you just answer, you know, when the gentleman answers and he said, I didn’t know what to say. He said, I had taught, I had spoken of it, but I didn’t know what to do. And he said to himself, he said, if I don’t know what to do, I know my congregation doesn’t know what, there’s no hope that they know what no, no. If I can’t teach, you know, if I’ve taught it from the pulpit. And so what he did was then he developed evangelism explosion in the mid sixties as a hands-on one-on-one knock on the door ministry well, really not knock on a door, but anywhere you are in life, then you are able to guide a conversation into the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:14):
So you were trained in how to use evangelism explosion, and then you began to be involved in it, but you didn’t stop there. You also trained others. So share with me some of the testimonies of what you’ve seen God do through this program.

Pat Kendall (05:31):
Well, the best testimony, and we really need to get back a little bit more about ESL, but the neatest thing was a lady from another church called me after I had left that previous church I mentioned and was at victory Christian center here in Tulsa and a lady called me and said, I hear you have an evangelism program over there. And I said, yes, we do. And she said, well, would, would you, do you think I would be able to do that? This is a lady I’ve never met. She sounds a little bit shy and timid on the phone. She’s a little reserved. And she said, you know, do you think I could do that? And the answer was one word. The answer is yes. And with the history I knew of it, that anybody when they’re trained and when they get comfortable, they can share the gospel with anybody.

Pat Kendall (06:15):
And so Diane came over and joined the program and she kept track over a period of years with us, how many she had led to the Lord. And one day she said, the Lord told me just to quit keeping numbers. And it was about 225. If I remember right, that she had personally led to the Lord, the power of the program is that is personally led to the Lord. You don’t have to stand in a pulpit. You’re on the street, you’re knocking on doors, wherever you may be. And so then later I asked Diane, I said, Diane, if you had kept counting, this is a couple of years later, how many would you say that you have? She said, Pat, it would be over 400. Can you imagine the power of the church? If everybody in the church had 400 converse, converts walking beside them, behind them going through and coming into the kingdom. And, but yet Dave Kennedy said at the time this was in they, Oh, mid nineties. The percentage of people who had ever personally led somebody to the Lord that is a Christian and those, they should share evangelical Christian that knows they should share the gospel. So people will get saved. They said less than 5% have actually done a personal conversation with somebody and led them to the Lord.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:25):
And that’s what Jesus told us all to do in Mark 16, 15, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. It’s not just a command for pastors and evangelists. It’s words written to every single believer. And so I think everyone has this, this understanding, or this desire to want to be able to share their faith, but often people don’t know how to do it. And so what this does is it, it kind of gives you a roadmap of how to, to share your faith. So, so tell me how it would work. You would take people, you train them in, in a group, then you’d take them out, going door to door. How would you train someone to use evangelism?

Pat Kendall (08:06):
Well, if I may speak to something you just said, the scripture says to go into all the world, and that is what we hear preach so often is go into the world, go into the world, go, go, go. And it’s a go ministry, many people, as you said, they’re not prepared. They don’t understand. They don’t quite know what to say or do when they get there. So evangelism explosion starts with the comm ministry and Jesus said, very simply come. And I will make you fishers of men. That was his first command. I don’t think that was an info in the invitation. I truly believe Daniel, that that was a directive. I think he said, come and I will make you fishers of men. I think it was a directive to the fishermen. And they walked away knowing that they were going to something to learn something, to be able to do something that over the next three years, Jesus taught them to do. And evangelism explosion is a very, is very simply AECOM ministry com and we will be taught how now then remind me of the question you answered, asked me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
So before you go, you have to come and be taught how to be a fisherman. So tell me, how do you train someone to, to share their faiths? Assume you have someone who is shy, never had an opportunity to lead someone to Jesus before, but that they have that desire to, to be able to do that. How would you train that person to, to share their faith?

Pat Kendall (09:27):
Well, you know, that’s the great problem we have is we train everybody exactly the same. Whether they be the shy person, you just mentioned Diane or the bold person that just wants to just tell everybody, but just shakes doors and just rumbles things and just people run from them. And so what we do very simply Daniel is we invite them. We tell them, we give them a little overview of what we do, and if they are interested, we have to get their interests. First. If they’re not interested, you can’t, you can’t bring them into something they don’t really want to do. But those that are interested that really catch the comment. I will teach you message that we bring them in and over a period of Oh, it was 13 weeks. They’ve shortened it now to a lesser program, but we did 13 weeks.

Pat Kendall (10:08):
And over the period of that 13 weeks, we go out in groups of three, we have two men and a woman or two women and a man. We always have a mixed group. We never go out with a man and a woman. And we don’t go out with two men or two women because we don’t have the ability to speak to everybody. But when you have a mixed couple or a mixed group, we can speak to anybody that comes to the door or we happen to cross. And so we invite them in, we group them up. And in the first week, two, three, four, the trainer, the one, the leader of the group is completely in charge and the others are just Watchers. As we go along, they’re learning a presentation of the gospel. We have an outline that we learn. We get to a little bit, but as we go, they start learning the presentation.

Pat Kendall (10:53):
The simplicity of a presentation is it’s somewhat lengthy, but, but not it’s so, so wonderful. And over a period of time in the middle, then they start taking part of the presentation, part of the leadership. And by the end of the time, they are the leader and the leader is now the follower. He’s there just in support and prayer. And we see these people as they certify, so to speak as they are qualified, as they get comfortable like Diane, then they are able not only on IE night or EDA who want to go out as the group, but when they’re out in the world on their own, to be able to share the gospel in a very simple explanation of how they can be saved and know for certain that they have eternal life.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:40):
Since you started doing this, how many people would you say that you’ve trained in, in sharing their faith

Pat Kendall (11:47):
In about, I think 15, 16 years at victory that I was involved in and became the leader of the program with my, we have certified 150 evangelists. And now this is not the five fold ministry evangelists. This is the evangelism that the church, the congregation should be doing a congregational evangelism. That means we can send hundreds, thousands out on the streets every week where an evangelist will drop into a church on occasion and the 150 that we train. They, they have a certificate of completion of the course, but then they also have a certificate in their heart that they’re able to share. And over that period of time, too, and just about an hour and a half a week about, Oh, I’m thinking probably 20 weeks a year, we led over 1500 to the Lord.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:37):
Wow. That’s amazing. And would you say that everyone who goes through the program is able to lead someone to Jesus by the time they finish?

Pat Kendall (12:46):
There’s no problem there. No doubt about that. I mean, that is, that is a fact what you just said by the time we finished the program, we know how to instigate a conversation, lead that conversation to a gospel of where they’ve come from, where they are in their life and just present the gospel to them.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:05):
You mentioned that Dr. Kennedy has a basic outline for sharing the good news. And so let’s just talk a little bit about what that outline would, would look like. And so here in the, the evangelism explosion book, there’s in chapter three, there’s an abbreviated outline of the gospel presentation. You have the, the introduction, you, you would talk about the someones secular life, their church background, and then maybe about your church, you would share your testimony. Then you come to two diagnostic questions. And so talk me through how you would use these, these diagnostic questions. One, the first question is have you come to a place in your spiritual life where, you know, for certain that if you were to die today, you would go to heaven or is that something you would say you’re still working on? And then the second one, suppose that you were to die today and stand before God. And he were to say to you, why should I let you into my heaven? What would you say?

Pat Kendall (14:07):
Well, again, let me back up just a moment from there. You mentioned that enter the introduction when you knock on a door or when you greet somebody for the first time you’ve never met in your life, it would just start a conversation with them about who they are, where they’ve been, what they do in their life, where they work, what their family’s like, where they’re from. You know, you’ve been in this city for a long time. We just talk, we, we become friends. We get a relationship started. If you’re in a home, you’ll see by the pictures on the wall or the trophies or the bowling ball trophy or whatever, or their kids or family pictures, you’ll see who their family and what they believe or mean. What they’re interested in in their life gives you a lot of inclination of what to speak on.

Pat Kendall (14:49):
And then we asked them about church background. And what we do then is we find out just a little bit about what their knowledge is, where they’ve been. If they’ve been in a Christian Church or a, or any church or synagogue or whatever they have been in their life gives you a little bit of information about them. And then we tell them about our church and what we believe. And then the testimony that we give is either a personal testimony. If they’re, if they have a good church background, they’re used to testimonies, they understand testimonies. If they don’t have a church background, then a lot of the things that we will speak of is what our church believes that our church believes that that relationship with the Lord is a good thing. We talk about it, but we try to skirt three or four words. We try to skirt the word, Christian, born again, baptized

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:49):
Because that’s not really what you’re trying to accomplish at that moment. And in like born again, that’s kind of a specialized word. You have to have some, some understanding, well, this situation where you get to talking about born again,

Pat Kendall (16:02):
Exactly Daniel. And the thing is, is Christian is misdefined by so many people. Sure. Born again is misdefined saved.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:09):
Some people think they’re Christian, if they’re, they were baptized as a child or something,

Pat Kendall (16:16):
Or because their parents are Christians, or because they went to church when they were a kid or they go to church now. And so what that does is that leads us from their second life, their church, our church, what we believe a testimony about what we believe. And then the diagnostic questions. What you said is have you come to the place in your spiritual life? We know for certain that if you died today, you’d go to heaven. Or is that something you’re still working on early in? He, he, they didn’t have, or is that something you’re still working on, on there? And it stopped the conversation because they had to give a yes or no answer. And many people didn’t want to say no,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:49):
No. And weren’t sure they just say yes, but if you say, is that something you’re working on, everyone’s working on their spirit. Yeah.

Pat Kendall (16:57):
It’s amazing how many Christians would say, yeah, I guess I’m still working on that. And how many people that aren’t saved yet would say exactly the same thing. Yeah. I guess I’m still, and so it continued a conversation that previously has stopped. And then, you know, men, I mentioned to you Daniel, about how we’re at the door in the first week out that the two people that go with us, they don’t even speak. They just mentioned, you know, they nod their head. They’re in agreement. If there’s something funny, they may laugh with us. And, but the one thing that they do do is at this point in time, is I turn to, let’s say a gentlemen named Fred. And I said, Fred, are you certain that you’re going to have when you die? His simple answer is a one-word testimony and that’s yes, that’s all he gets to say.

Pat Kendall (17:38):
And the neat thing is, is that gives confirmation, not just that the speaker, you know, the one that’s talking to him, but there’s somebody else there that has done the same thing that we’re going to lead them to. They don’t that yet, but we’re in agreement and something within our group. And so that leads us to the second question. That suppose you were to die today and stood before God. And he would to say to you, why should I let you into my heaven? And what I always do is I always put their name in that. If I’m talking to Sally, I said, well, Sally, if God would say, why should I let Sally, Sally, why should I let you into my heaven? What would you say? Or what would you tell him? So in the first question we understand the yes or no are working on it is what they think is going to happen when they die. And the second question is, is what they’re trusting in is if you would die, hoping nothing would come up on you. But if you would and stood before God, and he said, Sally, why should I let you into my heaven? What would you say? So now you’re going to tell him what you’re trusting in to get.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:42):
So what are some of the responses that you’ve heard in response?

Pat Kendall (18:46):
I think the funniest one was this one gentleman thought he was so good. He said, God will let me. And he said, I haven’t even stepped on a bug. He said, I don’t even, I let them live too. I’m just, he said, I’m just that good. A lot of people will say, because I have gone to church because I, I don’t, I’ve never murdered anybody. As far as I know, the 10 commandments. I don’t think I’ve ever broken one of those, you know, they give really not as bad as Hitler. Yeah. Yeah. And, and there’s really only two, two answers that are simple. It’s either I’m good enough to get in. Or he was good enough to let me in, in what he did. It’s either Jesus or me, that’s what we have to trust in.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:24):
So then how would you transition to starting to share the gospel and talking about grace and in the need for goals?

Pat Kendall (19:33):
The one thing I didn’t mention is we always ask permission to proceed. We say, may I ask you a question? If they say no, then if we ask them a question, we’ve offended them. Sure. So we always ask permission to continue. So before the first question is, may I ask you a question and what, before I continue, do you mind if I asked another question and now we’ve gotten their permission to proceed?

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:56):
So, so you, you start by just knocking on someone’s door and, and some people are going to come to the door. Sometimes they’re busy. Do, do you make an appointment to meet them later? If they’re busy, how do you handle that? Or, or do you just go onto the next door

Pat Kendall (20:12):
From victory? We just went out knocking on doors. And when people come to the door, they, they will kind of show you whether they’re in her. You’re not just the way they open the door sometimes. But what we say is, hi, I’m Pat. This is Daniel and Sue and Sally. And we’re out from victory Christian center tonight, just speaking with people in the neighborhood and just seeing how people are doing, if there’s anything we might be able to pray with. And so we just gently open it, but we always say we’re from the church. We’re from what our names are. And a little bit about why we’re out there if they time. And that’s a

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:48):
Very soft opening. I mean, we’re just out here praying for people. Is there anything you need prayer for that gives you a chance to start the conversation.

Pat Kendall (20:55):
And we don’t ask them that at the very first it was there anything we can pray for because the answer is so often no, and those are the ones we need to share the gospel too, for sure. The ones that are asking for prayer, they may know they have a need. They may know they need Jesus and haven’t done. There’s so many, but to ask them to do something initially like that, other than may I ask you a question, it gives them the opportunity, or it gives Satan the opportunity to jump in the middle of the conversation and give you a note it to cut it off. Yeah. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:26):
All right. So then you ask, are you, can I ask you a question? You, and you, you begin to ask these, these diagnostic questions and that kind of lets you know where they are spiritually.

Pat Kendall (21:35):
You said transition. It just came to mind. The transition that we use is I know that I have come to the point in my spiritual life that I know for certain, I’m going to heaven. May I share with you how I’ve come to that knowledge again? May I share with you? If they say no, it pretty well stops the conversation at that point in time, but it stops at gently on their side. And we say, is there anything we can pray about? Is there anything you need anything we can do? And we keep that conversation going, because that way we got the opportunity to knock on the door again the next time. And if they, if they say yes, please do. Then that’s where we share the gospel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:18):
Okay. So let’s talk about the presentation of the gospel, that the outline kind of goes like this. You start with grace and you talk about how heaven is a free gift. It’s not earned or deserved. Then you go to man or humankind that we are sinners, that we can’t save ourselves. Then you talk about God that God is merciful, that he doesn’t want to punish us.

Pat Kendall (22:39):
Let me interject right there. Previously, when the gods section of the presentation came up, they would say, God is just, and therefore must punish sin. That stopped the conversation because we told them that God was going to punish their sin before they, we told them that he was merciful and in the middle of, Oh, over the last 15 years or so, they have done different things. 20, 30 years really. They have changed the outline presentation to where it kept itself going. It didn’t have stop signs in it. And they moved in that particular section. They said, God is merciful first and doesn’t want to punish, but then he is just in must punish. And so they got the softness of the gospel before they got the harsh.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:23):
I think that’s important in this day and age, because in Romans it says that it is the goodness of God that draws men to repentance. And sometimes when people think about the evangelists, they imagine someone out on a street corner with a megaphone yelling and saying, you’re sinners. You’re all going to hell. You’re going to die. And really that is, that is only the, the, just part of the gospel to tell people that they’re sinners and the trouble with telling people that they’re sinners is that it really makes it hard for them to, to accept God as a loving God who wants to forgive them. And they just turn them off before the conversation even gets started. That’s right. And so,uif you, you talk about God’s forgiveness and his, his mercy in the beginning,uI think it creates more and more openness in people.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:21):
So you talk about God, and then you talk about Christ who he is and what he did. He died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. And then the, the finish of the conversation is about faith. What faith is, it’s not just intellectual assent or mayor temporal faith, but what it is, is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life. So let’s, let’s go through each of these five steps. We’ve got grace, man, God Christ and faith. Give me some about each of those different steps and maybe some of the stories that you would use to communicate each of those steps of the gospel.

Pat Kendall (25:02):
Well, and each one of the steps of the gospel, I mean, we said outline and we’ve said presentation, but really it’s a conversation. The points of the outline are to keep the conversation going in the direction. We want it to go and not get on rabbit trails through the middle of it and not know where we were in, in sharing. And it gives us a place to come back to like he’s, like I said, we share with them that I know for certain I’m going to heaven. May I share with you how that is for you? And they say yes. And you start very simply that heaven is a free gift right off the top. They’ve got a smile that everything they’ve been looking for, that they’ve been working for or hoping to get, it’s a free gift

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:42):
Because who doesn’t like a free gift, especially at Christmas time,

Pat Kendall (25:46):
You know? And, and they’re already open. They’re already opening a gift in their mind. There are, they, they give you a smile, just like I got a smile off you just now Daniel. And so the scripture, and in each one of the sections, we have a script, a scripture and an illustration of some type. The scripture on this one is the wages of sin is death. But the gift of God, okay, the wages of sin is, but the gift of God is eternal life. And this is what we use through the presentation is we use eternal life. We speak of heaven and eternal life. We don’t say again, Christian saved or born again. We say eternal life, because those three can be misdefined. But eternal life, life that lasts forever. There is no way to miss define that. And they don’t a person doesn’t question.

Pat Kendall (26:28):
What do you mean? You turn a life, you know, what do you mean, Christian? What do you mean born again? They don’t say, what do you mean? They’ve turned life. Because if they ask what it is you say, well, that’s just life forever. And they say, Oh, okay. And it continues again. It’s a simple answer that continues the conversation that you’re going to finish up here in a little bit, but not yet. Again, it’s not earned deserved. And the scripture there is Ephesians two, eight and nine for by grace. You’re saved through faith that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God. Again, it’s a gift that no man can boast. And so as we go through this, the illustrations, the scriptures all bring people to an overview of everything that Jesus did for us. And in the end, when he, Jamie, you said about faith at the end, that’s when we really bring it to a close, but in each one, man is a sinner and cannot save himself.

Pat Kendall (27:20):
Man is the center all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And then you talk about sin and Oh, an arrow, not hitting the bull’s eye every time. There’s a scripture. I don’t quote us as a scripture, but I say, you know, a lot of times people know that they have good things to do and they don’t do it. You know, sometimes that’s just bad to them. There was a lady that fell in front of them and they just walked by. Well, nobody else saw it. It’s just, you know, it’s just to them. And we have these things that we know overtly our sin and we have the other. And so we simply say with this free gift, it’s not earned deserved. And all of us have made mistakes that are going to keep the gift from being given. And that there’s nothing that we can do to save ourself. The illustration on that one is really kind of humorous. It’s like a person in the middle of a Lake. There’s no boat in sight. They can’t swim to shore. So they say themselves by pulling on their own hair and just lifting themselves out of the water. Well, it’s impossible. It just can’t be done.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:21):
Yeah. That’s a great illustration. All right. So you can’t save yourself, then you would start talking about God. What scriptures do you use in talking about God’s mercy and his, his sense of justice? Well,

Pat Kendall (28:35):
It is a sense of justice. Isn’t it is merciful and doesn’t want to punish sin. And the simplest scripture is that God is love and love does not want to punish love, wants to care for love. Love is an offering. Not it’s not, Oh, I don’t know the word I’m looking for, but love is just from the heart, from the heart of God. God is from his heart love.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:01):
And then how would you transition from talking about love to justice and the fact that God hates sin when that he will punish sin?

Pat Kendall (29:10):
And there’s a simple thing. There is it, God is just not only his merciful, but he’s also just, and must punish sin. We speak of a, a person that goes before a judge and is guilty of a crime. The judge is just in offering to that. The penalty deserved. If he’s a bank robber, it’s big. If he’s a murderer, it’s bigger. You know, if he murders many, it could be bigger again. But if he just stole $25 worth of things, then it’s a very low, but he’s just in, in punishment of what the crime is. And the scripture here that we use is by no means, will the guilty be set free? It’s an Exodus. And so the merciful God that doesn’t wanna punish us is also just, and must punish sin in that statement right there. You may have heard that he doesn’t want to punish us. He doesn’t want to punch at the person. So the person you’re speaking to Daniel, God doesn’t want to punish you, but God must punish sin. At that point in time, I’ve separated the sin and the person. So now the person can understand, even if they don’t realize it, that there’s a difference between them and their sin. And if there’s a difference between those two, we can separate it later and give it to Jesus.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:30):
All right. So you mentioned Jesus. Let’s talk about him. Who is Jesus and what did he do? And, and how would you talk to someone about who Jesus is?

Pat Kendall (30:42):
Sometimes we, we mentioned that Jesus Christ, he’s the infinite God man. He is completely God. He is completely, man. He, Jesus is the one that walked on the earth. You’ve heard about Jesus. And if they along the conversation, they will have asked maybe a question or two, because this is not a dissertation. This is not just a presentation. They don’t get to involve in. They are interactive with us. They’ll have little questions along the way. We’ll have little other anecdotes that we might lay in there. And a lot of times we will ask them, Oh, who, who do you know Jesus to be? That gives us a great definition of the religious background that they’ve got. Because if they come out of a non-Christian understanding of Jesus, then it helps us. It helps us to know that. And, but Jesus being the infinite God, man, it really depends on what they say more of what we say than what we want to say right there.

Pat Kendall (31:37):
Because when they reflect on Jesus a little bit, it gives us the ability to talk about what they’ve said in a gentle way, rather than just saying, Jesus is this. And they say, well, I just thought he was that. And that’s another stop sign. If they tell us a little bit about who they think Jesus is, or that they don’t know anything about him, which has come up, I really don’t. I’ve heard the name, but I don’t know anything about him, man. That’s a wide open field, but when they say, well, Jesus is this and this and this and this. And in the Mormon church where I was at or whatever this church I was at, they’ve told me about this. Now we’ve got a little inclination about where we need to go and that what he did for us. Now, this is one thing that we memorize and we request and require that the people in, he learned evangelism, explosion trainers know this statement that he died on the cross and Rose from the dead to pay the penalty for our sins and to purchase a place in heaven for us, because that is the simplest way to say what he did.

Pat Kendall (32:33):
Okay. Say it again. He died on the cross and Rose from the dead to pay the penalty for our sin and to purchase a place for us in heaven.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:44):
That’s a beautiful statement. It’s worth memorizing.

Pat Kendall (32:47):
And, and it becomes easy if he died on the cross and Rose from the dead to pay the penalty for my sin. And he went to heaven to purchase a place for us. You know, he went there, he did something for us. And then he went there to do something for us because later we’re going to say how we get there. It’s evangelism explosion is laid out in a simple, progressive fashion to where we bring people that have maybe no idea of the gospel of Jesus Christ or a great idea, but just have never made a decision. It gives them a groundwork how’s that it gives them groundwork that take a stand on solid so they can understand it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:22):
I think the outline is actually really great because it gives you something to come back to it. It gives you confidence to know what you’re trying to communicate in and where you’re going with the conversation. And so it takes a lot of the guesswork out of it. If someone asks a question and gets on a rabbit trail, you, you answer their question, but then bring them back to the presentation. Okay. So then the last debt is his faith. And so talk to me a little bit about faith and how you ask someone to come to the point of decision where they put their faith in Christ.

Pat Kendall (33:59):
And there’s, there’s always just kind of a little transition statement coming out of one section of the gospel, the outline, so to speak to another and coming out of Jesus Christ into faith is that he, by his grace freely offers us the gift of heaven, the gift of eternal life, and how do we receive it while we received the gift by faith. And so we’ve told them all about who they are, who God is, who Christ is and now, and we’ve told them about eternal life. And now we’re going to tell them how they can procure that for themselves in their life. And the first thing we tell them is what faith is not because all their life, if they’re not, they’ve trusted in something and temporal knowledge, we say temporal faith. And that is something that’s temporary. Like I prayed for grandmother who was sick and she got, well, I prayed for a great vacation.

Pat Kendall (34:50):
We came back and we had great pictures. I prayed that when the airplane landed, that, that it wouldn’t scare me this time. And I just felt comfortable. And, but it’s all a temporary situation. And so a lot of people feel that since they’ve prayed for temporary temporal things, that, that gives them something more than just an answer to that prayer and what is not, is not, not intellectual ascent is what we talk about, about knowing about Jesus. One of the illustrations we use, and this was a few years ago, but everybody knows who Michael Jordan is. Who would that be today? Daniel? Who would be a sports star today? A good one. A good one.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:30):
I dunno. Everyone knows who tiger woods is still know Michael Jordan. Yeah.

Pat Kendall (35:34):
Yeah. Mike, but anyway, like that, I’m sure if were, if you were to come up after a basketball game and Michael Jordan walked off, you know, and was standing there kind of by himself and you walk up and say, Michael, how’s it going, dude? Yeah. Good to see you. And man, you said this and that. And he said, well, excuse me, but who are you? I don’t know you, but Michael, I know you, you made 16 baskets and you did 86 points and you had triple doubles and doubles triples and all this stuff I know all about about it. And he said, well, that’s very well that you know about me, but he said, I know nothing of you. And see, that’s what people think that they’ve gone to church, that they’ve done things that get them to know about Christ, but what does Christ know about their heart? He knows that he’s not there yet. Possibly.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:17):
So then how would you bring someone to the point of, of making a decision? What would you say? Would you lead them in a prayer? Right? Then if they were interested in, in, in having eternal life. Well, you see, I stopped myself there. I was interested in becoming a Christian. I was about to say

Pat Kendall (36:37):
Interested in having eternal life. It’s so easy to be Christian, you know, and to use the the verbalize of who we are as Christians, because we use it at church all the time. But when we’re talking to a secular mind,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:48):
You got to think what they’re thinking. You’ve got to communicate in a way that they can.

Pat Kendall (36:53):
I understand. And you don’t want to lead them to a stop sign. You want to lead them to a, to a yellow light at worse, but always a green light to go through a yellow light. Sometimes you’ll, you’ll be able to work around a little question. They have a little sidebar they have, but red light is awful tough to rough around, but I just told them what it’s not. But now I’ve got to tell them what it is. And so now they’ve, they’ve heard that eternal life is out there. It’s being given to them. How do I get it? Well, you get it by faith, but not that kind of faith, but this kind of faith and what the Bible says, that the kind of faith that we have to have his faith and trusting in Jesus Christ alone for our eternal life. And he didn’t come just to merely, he came to earth to show us how to live, but he also came to earth to show us how we could live forever with him. And that’s how we receive eternal life being forever with him. And the Bible says very simply, it says, believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ. And you shall be saved, believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ. And you will receive eternal life. And so there we use the scripture, which says saved, but we always qualify it just a little bit back to what we’ve said, because we’ve been using eternal life throughout. So now we’re equating saved with eternal life. So we’re bringing them to a Christian ending.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:11):
And so how would you lead them to Christ? Would you actually pray a prayer with them? Or how do you bring them to that point of decision?

Pat Kendall (38:24):
Okay. Starting back at the first, the person said, no, they don’t know for sure. And they really don’t know what they’re trusting in. One of the answers we give back then one of the statements we give is, so then, and you can say this in the right manner. If you say it wrong, it hurts. But also then Daniel, you really don’t know how to have eternal life. And they say, well, no, I really don’t. And you, so, but if you say, well, you really don’t know how to get it, then do you dude, well, they’re going to say you get out of my door.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:55):
Sure. And now you’ve brought them all the way through this conversation. And you’ve quoted this verse that says everyone who believes in Jesus will be say, will have eternal life. So then you ask them now, do you know how to, okay, we’ve got eternal life

Pat Kendall (39:09):
Again. We’ve got a secular mind. We’re speaking to here that has a little bit of the spark of the faith. And they have seemingly agreed with you all the way through. And the simple question, which I’ve never heard through any other presentation, but evangelism explosion is the simple question that we ask them is, does this make, does this make sense to you? Because we’ve been speaking to their mind and their heart is becoming alive.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:32):
There’s one, the Bible says that faith comes by hearing. So you’re quoting the scriptures and talking to them. So faith is being born in that moment, right?

Pat Kendall (39:39):
And as their mind and their spirit come together as their mind and their heart come together. Does this make sense to you? Would it make sense to you if you needed no groceries for me to say, Hey, let’s go to the store and buy groceries. It doesn’t make sense. Why would you go if you don’t want to see this movie? And I say, Hey, I’m going to move. You want to go with me? Well, no, I don’t want to go there. It doesn’t make sense. So what I need to know is, is what I’ve shared with you. Does that make sense to you? If they say, no, you don’t say what didn’t make sense, because now we’re on a rabbit trail. Why are the people in Africa going to go to hell? And they never heard about Jesus? Why is this? Why is that? Where’s this?

Pat Kendall (40:17):
What is that? We’ve got rabbit trails that Satan is setting up right. Then that will lead us into an hour and a half a conversation that will not end where we want it to. So what we ask them is, does this make sense to you? And they say, well, no, not really. Well, did it make sense that heaven is a free gift that you can earn deserve it? Yeah. Well that, that man is a sinner. Did you understand how man is the center cannot save? Yes. And that Jesus, what he did for us was he died for us and Rose again and you know, and purchase a place in heaven. Yeah. And that God is merciful. Didn’t want to punish us, but must punish sin. No, I didn’t quite, I didn’t quite understand. Okay. Well let me, so now we have found where they didn’t understand and we can explain it to them that God is merciful.

Pat Kendall (41:01):
Doesn’t want to punish the person doesn’t want to punish us, but he must punish sin because he’s just, he’s a judge. He judges justly. And just like, if a person came up with 87 traffic tickets, the judge would have to say, you have to pay these because he’s adjust judge. And so what happens is at that point, we explain what they didn’t understand and say, well, does it make sense now? And they said, well, yeah, the next question is automatic. Would you like to receive the gift of eternal life? Because now it makes sense. Their mind is satisfied. That’s what we, we really have to, a lot of people whose mind is not satisfied. We’ll pray with you to get them out of your, get you out of their face. Sure. They just will. And so the, the generosity that God has put into this program is they understand where they’re going. They know the next step and we’re going to lead them there, but we get their permission. Do you understand, did it make sense? Yes, it did. Then would you like to receive the gift of eternal life? Yes, I would permission to proceed.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (42:08):
So then talk to me about follow up because of course that’s not the end of where God wants to take them. That’s just the beginning. How would you follow up on that person and get them hooked into a church and, and growing as a, as a new believer?

Pat Kendall (42:25):
Well, and before we pray and I’m trying to find it because my mind is slipping right now, we asked them, it’s the four RS. We say that what, what you need to do in order to do this is, do you understand that what you, Oh, excuse me. We asked them if you are ready to receive Christ as your Lord receive Christ as your savior, repent, turning around from where you were going to, where you are going, we ask them the qualifying questions that call them. And if they say yes to all of those, then I, then I asked them, is there a prayer that you have in your heart that you would like to say to Jesus? Many people will say, no, a few will say yes, I have a prayer. And they pray a wonderful prayer because they’ve been in church. They’ve just never had to receive. Or we lead them in a prayer. And at the end of the prayer, I have seen so many people go into prayer. I always close my eyes. I don’t look at them. We hold hands. We put a hand on their shoulder. We talk with them. We pray. And many, many, many times when we come out of that prayer, you look at a different person. You look at a person who is now a born again, Christian saved believer.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (43:44):
That is one of the most exciting moments that you can experience to see that moment when someone’s eternal, destiny is changed. And, and I’ve seen it many times where, where people will, it looks like they’re shining. It’s you suddenly see Jesus in their eyes. There, there is something there’s a tangible change in their lives when they give their life to Jesus. Well, really amazing.

Pat Kendall (44:10):
That flashes me back to the story of really how my story started with my wife was I was in a little little church, a little neighborhood church. I went to for just a little while who didn’t have an evangelism program. And I’d been in another church with an evangelism program. And I heard that victory here in Tulsa was going to have a training, a seminar to certify teachers of the program, because what they have is they have teachers who teach the program, the trainers who help the others go out and then the the learner, so to speak the trainees. And so I went to victory to become a certified teacher, as I walked in the door of vicar Bible Institute, which was at 51st in Peoria at the time in the TL Osborn building. Yeah. Yeah. And I walked in and there’s a lady standing over by the mirrors.

Pat Kendall (45:00):
If you remember the building Daniel and I walked across the, there was a picture of, of the globe on the floor. And I walked across the world so to speak. And I talked to a young lady, a blonde at the door and asked her, you know, what I needed to do. I filled out a check for the seminar, for the, and handed her the check. And she gave me one of those little receipts. It’s about three inches long about an inch tall or so. And it said, I’d given her a, I think it was $295 for the session and she signed it and I just opened them Bible, stuck it in there and said, thank you. And walked on in, in the training, the teaching sessions, they taught us each one of the lessons over the next six days. I took a vacation actually from my job to go to the seminar.

Pat Kendall (45:45):
And on the first day, second day, and then the third day we go out just like you are in evangelism explosion. And the lady that took my money was the lady that happened to be the trainer in my group. I was familiar with he previously, the other gentleman wasn’t and my wife was the trainer. She was going to Victor Bible Institute at the time. And so we went out and we went out to Fairmont terrace here in Tulsa. We’re on the second floor. I’ll never forget where we were. We were on the second floor on the West side, in the middle door of the three apartments are on that floor. And Oh a grandmother named Donna, a short black lady came to the door, open the door and was very congenial. We spoke with her, we started the gospel presentation, talked with her and right in the middle, which happens sometimes she said, Oh, I need to go inside.

Pat Kendall (46:39):
I’ll be back. Well, we hear that before. And they don’t come back to the door or they make an excuse. Hey, I got to go. I’m not able to finish. But Donna went inside and came back, opened the door, back up, shut the door. She went in, opened the door back up and said, thank you so much. I just had to check on my grandson and go to the bathroom. And so she came back out and if I remember, I, the lady knew janitor her name Aster, or asked me or somebody, where were we? And we reminded again, it brings you back to the outline because there was a space in the middle. So we finished the presentation. Don understood the gospel. She was churched in the past, but not saved. And we prayed. Donna was hunched over a little heavy lady, just a little, but she was kind of hunched over from the pressure of raising her grandchildren.

Pat Kendall (47:30):
She had mentioned that her daughter was not in the picture anymore and the pressure of life was on her. And she was just a nice pleasant person, but just had so much pressure and coming out of the prayer, we all held hands. Janet prayed. I guess the other man that was with us was probably there anyway. But when we came out of the prayer, Donna was standing straight to pressure, was gone. The had changed and everything that Satan had laid on her was no longer with her. She smiled, her eyes were bright. She was a changed person, born again, believer. And she knew in her heart that she had changed because she had been, she had been in church all of her life, but she’d never made a decision. She knew she changed and we could physically see the difference of what the Holy spirit does to a person when it is.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (48:25):
And the Bible says that when one sinner comes to repentance, all of heaven rejoices. So that is the moment that a party starts in heaven. And as an evangelist, as someone who, who witnesses to people that brings such tremendous joy to my life, to see someone in that moment where they give their lives to Jesus. Well, I encourage you to go online, get yourself a copy of the book, evangelism explosion by James Kennedy. And you have,

Pat Kendall (48:57):
I got finished. The story finished the story, Donna. Yeah. Donna. So Donna so we leave and we, we meet Don a few more times. And Janet about all a while later, she goes to Dallas, Texas to go through a teaching seminar. Like I had gone through when she was my leader and came back and the first day she’s back. Now that she’s a teacher, I say, well, you just do the lesson tonight. And it’s just like, Whoa. Okay. And so she was just another lady at church. And about two years after that, I was standing in E with Brian Good friend of mine. And the lady I had been dating during that period of time. And I were no longer together. And I said, you know, Brian, I said, you know, I’m better as part of a couple I’m a pair, I’m half a pair and not a single.

Pat Kendall (49:48):
And he said, well, he said any return and pointed to Janet across the room. We’re in, in VBI at the time too. And he pointed across the room and he said, well, what about that? And over there, and I turned and looked at Janet and she changed from Jim’s being a lady at church to she’s pretty lady real nice. I had known her for about two years. We’d been on evangelism together. We’d been walking the same path side by side for a long time before we even met. And about, about 10 months from that day, we got married.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (50:20):
Wow. That’s wonderful. Now, when you started this story, I knew that you were married to Janet. So I just assumed that she was your wife and going out with you. I didn’t get the part that you hadn’t started dating yet, but that’s so wonderful. You know? So if you need to find a husband or wife, you better go get in an evangelism group. It’ll give you an opportunity to talk to a lot of people. And as you’re doing what God has called you to do that, you’ll find the right person to come alongside you.

Pat Kendall (50:51):
Well, the rest of the story on Janet and I, a couple of years later, we had the opportunity to start teaching there. Before you say I do class at victim. And what I always told the folks and what I told the singles was that as you come and you, your paths cross with somebody, well, that’s wonderful. But as they cross and you go your way and they go theirs, you just happened to be around them. But I said, what you look for in a mate is somebody, this walking and God has just kind of preparing you and you’ll walk together. And in one day, you’ll realize, you’ll look over and you see the same person doing the same thing you’re doing. And she’s kind of cute. And she’ll look over and say, Hey, there’s a guy over there just doing about same thing I’m doing. And he’s kind of cute. And you’ll walk these parallel paths for a while and God is preparing you. If you’re single right now and listen to this, he’s preparing someone for you that you’re going to be walking parallel to. And that’s the way of Janet and I were, we walked for about two years, the same path, just knowing each other, and then God put us together as one. Wow.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (51:48):
Awesome. Well, can I finish now or do you have another story, man? I got stories. We don’t have time. Hey, if you’re listening, I encourage you go online. Get yourself a copy of evangelism explosion by James Kennedy. There’s lots of great illustration. He go through the outline and find a church that’s offering training in evangelism explosion. And as you go through the material, we’re really help you to become proficient in sharing your faith. So brother, Pat, I’m so excited about how much enthusiasm you have for sharing your faith. Thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

Pat Kendall (52:30):
Well thank you for the invitation. This has been a great reflection for me.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (52:34):
Thanks so much for listening today. Could you do me a favor? Go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King and leave us a review. Those reviews will help other people who are interested in evangelism. Find this podcast. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (52:54):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

Brad Mayer is a Canadian evangelist who is on Fire for Jesus. Recently he started LIFE – Local & International Fellowship of Evangelists because he believes it is important for evangelists to be in relationship with one another.

Questions we discuss:

1. How Brad Mayer became an evangelist
2. Evangelism in Canada
3. International Evangelism and testimonies from overseas
4. LIFE – Local & International Fellowship of Evangelists

Canadian Fire Missions Website: Canadianfire.org

Join the LIFE Facebook group – Local & International Fellowship of Evangelists: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lifeevangelistsfellowship

LIFE is about networking, collaborating, and connecting with others who share your calling to evangelism. It is about learning from and mentoring others who carry that same fire to share the Gospel that lives in you. It is a fellowship of evangelists, young and old, seasoned veterans alongside those new to the call…. all united with the same heartbeat to impact the world with the life-saving message of Jesus Christ.

City Center Church: https://www.facebook.com/citycentrechurch/

Transcript: 

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Brad Mayer is a Canadian evangelist who is on fire for Jesus. Recently, he started life local and international fellowship of evangelists because he believes that evangelists need to be in relationship with one another.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:18):
Well, Jesus said go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the event,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:56):
Angela ism podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited to tell people about Jesus. I have a special guest today from the snowy North up in Canada, Brad Meyer. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (01:12):
It’s good to be with you, Daniel. Always good to connect with fire, fire, your evangelists like yourself.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:19):
We’ve been friends for a while now. I think originally Dr. Ladonna Osborn introduced us and you came down here to Tulsa, to one of the meetings of the Soul Winners Alliance, a group of evangelists that I have here. And then together, we went to Brazil and got to participate in a great crusade there with my friend Rubens Cunha. And then last year when my wife and I were driving through Canada, we came by and visited your, your church and saw your, your ministry there and Canada. Tell me a little bit about how you got started in evangelism and how you knew you were called to be an evangelist.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (02:03):
Well, I’m here in the smaller Prairie city of Saskatoon in Canada. And I came out of a life of my father, was an alcoholic and my brother became a Christian first and he, he pointed me towards Jesus. And then as soon as I got saved, I just wanted to tell everyone, I just wanted to tell everyone. In fact, one of the first nations indigenous evangelists in this neighbor, he started calling me Sean Buck from my very first few weeks of being saved because I just wanted to tell everybody. And so I I was offered a position in my local church. I was going through university and my church said, we want a campus minister. We want somebody who will reach out to the university that you just spent four years. I got a business degree and I spent four years getting this degree and cared more about winning souls than I cared about getting the business degree, but I did.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (02:57):
Okay. And I got the degree and finished it. And so he gave me this position in my church part-time they sent me to Bible school in the morning and doing outreach in the afternoon. So we just started setting up outreaches from this local church. That was a sort of a bigger suburban church. And we just started setting up outreaches to the streets and to nursing homes and to hospitals and to prisons. And we started a drama company and we start reaching out into educational institutions. And before you knew it, we had 250 outreaches a year coming from this, this local church. And we were just going everywhere, including the campus that we started, you know, that that was the initial goal. And so, so I, yeah, I ended up being coming full time as this outreach director and and just whatever, there was a way to mobilize people into reaching souls and I was all over it.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (03:49):
And so, so we did that for many, many years. We planted an inner city church, which is where I am now. This is this is my office in city center church, which is in the rougher part of our city. And so we planted this inner city church close to 20 years ago now. And and so and we continue, you know, it’s a little tougher in this COVID season to, to, you know, get out into those public places. Our prisons are, are not, you know, not allowing us in right now and, and, and going to the streets is challenging when it’s cold in Canada. But nevertheless, we find ways to reach out. And so out of that context of doing so many outreaches God began to put on a heart, you know, you need to take this into other nations.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (04:35):
And so about 10 years ago, we birthed what we call a Canadian fire missions. And so we started to go in the context of not necessarily going and doing big crusades, but helping local churches with their outreach efforts, because that’s just really what I am. And 30 plus years of doing this and setting up outreaches and churches. And so, so the last 10 years or so been to 35 nations and and just helping churches with their outreach efforts. And then we have done some crusades and I’ve been pleased to join you inner crusade there in, in Brazil a few years back. And so and so we’ll do that when, when, you know, when the opportunity presents itself, but for the most part, my heart is towards evangelism coming out of local churches. And so I believe there are local church evangelists in every local church, just like God puts feet on the body.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (05:31):
I believe he puts feet in local assemblies of believers. And there are always those ones who are fired up. They’re passionate about souls. And my heart is towards those people because I were one of those people on. So just releasing them and mobilizing them and taking them into, you know, the places where God has called them to go, whether it be a prison or a children’s outreach or whatever it may be, you know, just getting behind those people who have that evangelistic call in their life. That’s that’s my passion as an evangelist right now in this season of where I’m at.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:06):
Let’s talk a little bit about doing evangelism in the context of Canada. What are some of the things that, that you’ve seen that have been successful in, in reaching people for Jesus in, in Canada? I know it’s very different going overseas. There’s, there’s certain things you can do when you’re overseas, but what are some of the things that, that you’ve done and you’ve encouraged other people to do in Canada?

Evangelist Brad Mayer (06:32):
You know, people are people and no matter where you go around the world people’s needs are not that much different, regardless of where you go, that we planted a church in the, sort of the toughest part of our city. There’s a lot of people on welfare, social, social assistance, or welfare in the, in the, just the direct vicinity of our church. And so they may get a a government check or some form of assistance, but many cases it’s gone in it’s, it’s gone towards addiction. What I, what I like to do with churches is I like to do almost like a little bit of a neighborhood inventory and just start to see, Hey, what, what, how can you tap into some of the needs that are right there in your neighborhood? And so for my own local church where, where I’m part-time I, in my own local church still has an outreach director in my church.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (07:22):
We saw that some of the biggest needs in our community were like kind of like poverty and addiction and when poverty it really related to food. We found that if we fed people, we’d get people. And so, so we do lots of, lots of food type outreaches, big, big Easter, and Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner, you know, with Turkey, dinner and such. We do barbecues in the warmer part times of the year where we get three and 400 people on the side of our church, in our parking lot, and just giving away free hot dogs and hamburgers, but always with the context of, we’re gonna give you this food, but we’re going to tell you about Jesus. And so, so we would, we would do many sorts of food type outreaches, and then whatever we can do to help people get out of their addictions, see these, these are the two big needs that I saw.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (08:12):
And he might be in another neighborhood where you might see that maybe divorce is a big, you know, a big issue in maybe a suburban neighborhood. I know churches that have addressed that are addressed you know marriage struggles, you know, those kinds of things, maybe financial pressures that maybe a businessman is facing. And so the context of a local churches neighborhood might define, you know, what might be the best outreaches that they could develop, because they need to know their, no, the people that God has called them to reach. And so we stepped into that by, by maybe doing, like I say, a bit of a neighborhood inventory, you know, what are the needs of your neighborhood and how it could you as a church? How could you as reach out and and touch those, those those needs. Because, you know, that’s when people hear, they hear the gospel when we tap into those, those needs in their lives. And and those things that, you know, those emptiness is that we can we can speak to those things.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:14):
And you’ve done a lot of traveling in the last 10 years overseas. You said 35 different nations share with me some of the testimonies of what you’ve seen God do in the lives of people as you’ve gone to these different nations,

Evangelist Brad Mayer (09:31):
You know, because I’m not necessarily a guy who does crusades. And that has often been the context of who an evangelist is. You know, evangelists, loosen evangelists, always the guy who does crusades. And so I get some of my supporters sometimes asking me questions, they’d say like, how many people did you win to the Lord and your crusades over there? And I remember I had just came back from Eastern European nation. And I was in Romania and my heart was really towards evangelists. So I think I spoke in seven or eight local churches. And in every one of those churches, I made a call who are the ones who are the evangelists in this, in this churches who are the ones who have you have this burning passion in your heart. I want to pray with you. I want to connect with you.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (10:14):
And in those seven or eight local churches, there were 10, and that’s not a big number. I know evangelists like to speak about big numbers. And we like to say, we led 10 million people to Jesus. And I came back and this person was pressing me for how many people did you win and your crusades. And, and and I, and God just told me, tell her 10. He says 10, but I said, I found Tammy Vangelis that I can multiply myself into. And one in particular we’ve stayed very close one young evangelist. And to me, one of the most awesome testimonies I think is that he called me a few months later. And I was running on my treadmill, just doing some exercise in my house. And I felt the Lord speak to me and say, go to Romania, take this young evangelist and taking them on an international missions journey.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (11:02):
So together we went and we journeyed into the neighboring nation of Moldova. So we preached together in Moldova. And then about a year later, he called me out of the blue one day and he says, Hey, Brad, guess what? I’m taking a team to Moldova myself. And to me, I have kind of a evangelistic father’s heart, I guess that made me so satisfied and so happy. And since that time we’ve been in two other, we’ve surrounded his nation now, and we’ve been to Slovakia and Ukraine and and eat Hungary together. And so levee, if you’re on he’s in this group. And so levy, if you’re, if you’re listening today, I’m talking about you. And so, and so it’s been, it’s been great to see, you know, us multiply ourselves. And I could tell that kind of story in Tanzania and Nepal, you know, so many different nations where God has just knit my heart together with young evangelists, who, who maybe didn’t have somebody who shared their passion or understood their calling.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (12:03):
And yet they’ve had someone then who could who could, you know, link arms with them and just say, let’s go harvest together. And so I think that’s so important because I had the same thing happened to me. There’s a well-known evangelist in my province, in the Christian and missionary Alliance denomination. And I was the president of the ministerial in my city. And he came to speak to the ministers of my city and I thought, wow, this guy has a passionate evangelistic heart. How come? I don’t know him. And he’s from another city in my province. So I said, let’s go for lunch tomorrow. So we did. And what was supposed to be a one-hour lunch meeting turned into a four hour hanging out together. And I came home. I was on cloud nine and I realized spending time with another evangelist. I got more out of that than going into five conferences. It just was so energizing. And so, so uplifting to me to share stories with him and then hear his stories and share my stories, and we understood each other. And I thought that, and so that’s, that’s something often me that you need to go help other evangelists as much as you can around the world and connect with them and just, you know link arms with them and learn from them, teach them what, you know, learn what they know. It’s been, it’s been an awesome journey is really hard.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:22):
I think that’s a tremendous insight. I think having relationships with other evangelists is one of the, the keys to really stay healthy. As in evangelists, sometimes evangelists, they, they go on a trip overseas and, and they see thousands of people get saved and they come home and, and people in the local church don’t really always understand the, the excitement of seeing all these people getting saved and the miracles and everything. And so it’s really important for evangelists to have relationships with other evangelists to sharpen one another, to spend time one another. And I just feel in this conversation, I’m excited just talking to you, and it makes me want to go do some more evangelism and, and take it through together and do something for Jesus together. You know, and that’s what happens when one person is on fire that fire spreads from, from person to person, and you can put other people on fire. So you, you really have a passion for raising up other evangelists and pouring into other evangelists and helping evangelists to, to develop these relationships. So you, you started a new group called life, which stands for local and international fellowship of evangelists. And so tell me a little bit about the group and who’s invited to be a part of the group and what your vision is for this, this group.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (14:52):
Well, my, my passion is, is as we’ve already been sharing, you know, to just, you know, mobilize and motivate and encourage and, and, you know exhort, those who have that evangelistic calling. But I think one thing that’s unique about this life group is that it recognizes the local evangelists and that Al that Helen LA life, is it a local and international there’s people who are doing some international things, but right in my city, there are 15, 16, 17 people that I connect with that have different forms of an evangelistic call on their life. And I love it. I love connecting with them, and it could be anything from a children’s minister to a prison chaplain and see sometimes people just need that, that confirmation, that someone else comes alongside them and say, you know what? You are an evangelist. And they were like, really me.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (15:43):
Yeah, yeah. You, and then that just sets them on fire to go do what they’re called to do. I remember one time I was preaching in the Philippines and I often will pray over people’s feet. I’ll get down on my knees. And the Bible says, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news? And I just, you know, I’ve always felt, you know, the evangelist, you’re like the feet of the body. And just as a symbolic thing, I’ll get down on my knees and I’ll pray over the feet of people. And so often make a call in a church for people to come and and we’ll pray over their feet. And as I was praying, sometimes you’ll end up prophesied and you’ll say no, saying something. So I’m not even seeing their faces. And there was this skinny girl, and I started to speak over her that you are a nation changer.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (16:24):
You are on a life transforming evangelists. And the whole church started going, Whoa, like, wow. I was like, how does he know this? It turns out this young girl, I love meeting people like this, this young girl, she would go and buy containers of rice and she’d go on a jeepney they the form of transport in the Philippines. And she jumped on a Jeep knee and she preached to the Jeep, me drivers. And she preached, preached to the people who would ride those forms of transport all day. And she just shared Jesus with people day in and day out. And she’s, she seems so meek and mild and almost crying when I was praying for. But when she’d get out there into the world, she was like a bold as a lion. And and she just received affirmation that day that she absolutely needed. And and we’ve stayed connected. I believe she may be on this life group as well. And so and so it’s good to, to make those connections. I remember a cab driver in, in Israel ministering in Israel, a taxi driver who does nothing but share the gospel. He says, I don’t care if it’s Jewish, Muslim Orthodox. He goes, I don’t care. He goes, I preach Jesus all day. Every day.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
I thought it sounds like an evangelist.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (17:38):
Exactly. I said that taxi driver is probably more of an advantage as the minivans in the world, just because he shares Jesus day in and day out every day. And when I meet guys that, I just like, I’m thinking, yeah, I found my people, you know, I’ve found one of my own. And so, so yeah, my heart is towards connecting. We, we set up a Facebook group. We had a more informal group before the Facebook group in terms of people who wanted to sign up and just become like a life member or start a life chapter in their city. And so we, we’ve done a little bit of work towards that. But as far as, you know, an easy way to connect yeah, just local and international fellowship evangelists, or life on Facebook. And, and and someone can find, find out about that or through our website, you know, Canadian fire.org, a person can find out more about connecting with other evangelists and learning from them and growing.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (18:35):
I learned so much from you, Dr. Daniel. I just, I really did. You’re younger than me, but you just had opportunities that I’ve never had. And so I’ve got a good evangelist friend in another part of Canada, and he says this all the time. He says, your mind is like an elastic band. And once it’s been stretched out, you know, and it’s been exposed to new things, it can never return to a state that it was in before. And and that’s what happened when I went to Brazil with you as a, I thought I should be doing more crusades. I should be doing what doctor Dr. Daniel King is doing. You know, I should be doing this. It just here in Canada though, where have I been exposed to that? Nowhere, you know, I haven’t, I haven’t, but you know, you’re in a city where you’ve had TLR born and you’ve had so many great evangelists coming out of Tulsa. That’s, that’s a, that’s an advantage you’ve had that I haven’t had. And so, so I learned everywhere I go, I always want to be a continual student. And if I can be a teacher to others then let’s do that. Let’s, you know, help mobilize young Angela sold evangelists and move around the world and, and bring Jesus.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:39):
Amen. Well, there will be more opportunities to do crusades and do amazing things for Jesus together. And, and I believe that you will see God do great things in the future through your ministry. And so if you’re listening and you want to connect with other evangelists, you want to build relationships with other evangelists find the Facebook page. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll post a link to it. And I’ve actually been posting episodes from the evangelism podcast on the Facebook page, just so people can get to know one another as I interview different evangelists. And I think it is really wonderful for evangelists to share their testimonies with one another, to tell everyone what they’re doing, because that encourages others. I think it also stretches our faith. When we see the testimonies see the pictures, see what God is doing in the lives of others. And, and it sparks ideas. I was like, Hey, I could do that. I want to do that. Let’s go.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (20:42):
Yes. Yes. So, yes, I think, I think it’s awesome when we can steal each other’s or borrow absolutely.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:50):
Any of my ideas you are welcomed to have, and

Evangelist Brad Mayer (20:53):
Yes, exactly. If it brings people to Jesus. Yeah, absolutely. Those are more important than, you know, owning an idea. And so

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:02):
Brother, Brad, thank you so much for joining me on the evangelism podcast. Love your ministry, love what you’re doing in Canada and around the world. God bless you.

Evangelist Brad Mayer (21:12):
You too. Thanks

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:14):
So much for listening today. Could you do me a favor? Go to Apple iTunes, find the evangelism podcast with Daniel King and leave us a review. Those reviews will help other people who are interested in evangelism find this podcast. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (21:35):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.

I can’t tell you his name but today we will call him John. He is working in a restricted access country in the Middle East with a Muslim majority. He works with Muslim background believers.

Questions: 

How did you end up going to this country.

How are you reaching Muslims?

• International Schools
• Monthly Seminars
• Book Translation – Sleeping Teachers
• Coffee Shop
• Church
• Holy Spirit Conference

What are some testimonies of Muslims who you have been able to reach with the love of Jesus?

What are some of the challenges of working in a restricted access country?

Why is Jesus different than everyone else?

How does healing and words of knowledge and other gifts of the Holy Spirit help bring Muslims to Jesus?

Why is it important to be motivated by love?

Quote from Daniel King: Our goal is not to win an argument, but to win a soul.

Transcript:

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
What is God doing in the Muslim world?  Today I interview a missionary in a restricted access nation. And it’s so secret that I can’t even tell you his name.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:15):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:50):
Hey, welcome to the evangelism podcast. This is Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. We have a special guest, but I can’t tell you his name. So we’re just going to call him John. He’s working in a restricted access country in the middle East that has a Muslim majority. He works with Muslim background believers and he leads Muslims to Jesus brother. Thank you so much for being on the evangelism podcast.

John (01:18):
It’s great to be here with you, Daniel.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
So tell me, how did you end up working in this country? We’re not going to tell everyone what country you’re working in, but it’s a country that has a Muslim majority. How did you end up going there?

John (01:34):
Well, I was in some live God Bible school back in 79 in central Florida. And speaker George Verwer https://georgeverwer.com came and was speaking in our chapel service and that whole service, he talked about this particular nation and how that it was the largest unreached nation in the world. And the reason was, was because so few were willing to pay the price to go there. And when he said that something inside me leaped up and I, and I just said, Lord, I’ll go. And that was the beginning.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:05):
And so how long have you been there now?

John (02:09):
Well, over the last 34 years, most of the time we’ve been in this nation live there and have done many things.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:18):
Tell me some of the types of ministry that you are able to do.

John (02:24):
We pastoring an international church and also we are involved with book translations, which we have we believe that this is very, very important and effective. We do seminars in every month in a different city of that country. We also have, have a school it’s online as well. I saw him international school of ministries in the language of the people. And so we use that we have annual Holy spirit conferences where we invite a brethren believers from all over the nation to come. God has done awesome things in those conferences. And so there’s many ways that we’ve been working to reach that nation.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:10):
And so it is a Muslim majority nation. And of course, many of the people there are Muslim. How are you reaching Muslims with the love of it?

John (03:21):
Jesus. Yeah. Yeah,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:25):
‘Cause, it’s, it’s, it’s a challenging in some countries. Like if you were to be working in, in Mexico, you’d be able to put up posters and flyers and invite people to come to a meeting churches aren’t very open, but in the country that you’re working in, which is restricted access you, you can’t be open about it. But you want to show the love of Jesus to people.

John (03:54):
Let me give you a couple quick testimonies. Some years ago, maybe five years ago, the Lord had put it on my heart to get our people to write five names on a card and five names of five people. They felt were the most open to the gospel. And we would begin to pray for the people that they’d come into contact with on a regular basis. And then I would teach them how to pray over those people. And we would continue to pray and target those people, carry them in our wallets or purses, whatever, and pull them out and just pray for them until we seen, we would see change on my card was my neighbor and we’d become friends and I prayed regularly over him. And eventually we became really good friends and I would slip in a testimony now.

John (04:45):
And then he was from a Muslim background Alavi, which says the Shia side of Islam and wasn’t real radical or anything, but he that’s that he and his family, four children, a great wife, they, they followed the Alavi teachings. But when one day in June that year that they had come to the Lord, they were sitting in my living room and I had been praying for families to come work with us in the church because we had no real families. And so one day we were sitting there in the month of June and the whole family is sitting there and the Holy spirit said, you were praying for family here. Here’s your family. And I’m like, no, no, no, I I’m talking about already saved already ready to, to work and labor with us and help us. And the Holy spirit said, no, that’s your job.

John (05:37):
And so I said, okay, we’ll buy by November of that same year, I woke up one morning and I felt the Holy spirit say today’s the day the baby’s coming. And I went into a coffee shop where we, that we have. And he came in and we were talking. And anyway, eventually I was ended up at his house and leading both he and his wife to Jesus and their whole family have now one of the strongest dedicated families in our church today. And soon after that, his partner in business, a cousin of his came to the Lord. And he’s been serving the Lord faithfully since, but can I give you a couple of testimonies? How we reach out how we will.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
So a lot of your advantage

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:24):
[Inaudible] is happening. One-On-One yeah. Building relationships with people over a period of time.

John (06:30):
Yeah. And I would say much, like we see in the new Testament with, with the disciples of Jesus, they were related, they were they worked together, you know they were people that we were in contact with. And so that’s who we’re called to be a witness to, you know one day I was at my barber and a guy I go to often and he’s cutting my hair in the middle of cutting my hair. He says, do you know anyone who could tell me anything about Jesus? And I was like, shocked, you know, he’s Muslim. And that’s it.

Daniel King (06:59):
Good question. I said, I’m ready to answer that question for sure.

John (07:03):
I looked at him. I said, well, as a matter of fact, I can, I teach the Bible, Oh, can you get me a Bible? He said, I said, sure, do you have one in your car now? I said, no, but I can get you one. I promise. And so after, after the haircut where we always sit out front and drink Turkish coffee and watch traffic go by and we’re sitting there and he goes, why do you only love Jesus? I said, I don’t only love Jesus. I love everyone. No, no, no. He says, why do you think Jesus has different? So different than everyone else? I said that I can answer you. So his brother who runs a kebab shop next door, he says to him, come over and listen to this guy. So he jumps over the wall and pulls up a chair. And the two of them are sitting there and they’re saying, tell me why Jesus is different.

John (07:47):
And so I laid out the simple gospel to them. And then at the end, I said, here’s another way you can tell Jesus is different than anyone else bring a sick person here right now. And I said, I’ll lay hands on them and pray for them in the name of, of my name. And I said, I guarantee you nothing will happen. And then I’ll let you lay hands on them and pray for them in the name of Mohammed or Ali or anybody else you want to. And I guarantee you nothing will happen. I said, but then let me lay hands on them in the name of Jesus, because that’s where the life and the power is. And right away, the brother says I’ve been having problems in my stomach. I can’t eat certain foods. And do you think Jesus would heal me? I said, sure.

John (08:30):
I reached over. I put my hand on his stomach, prayed up simple, direct, powerful prayer. And as soon as I said, amen, the barber guy jumps up and grabs his head. He goes, you’re not going to believe this. I said, what? I had a dream. He said two days ago, and you were in my dream and I saw you do what you just did to my brother. I’m like, God, you set me up. And it made me realize, anytime we step out, we’ll find out because of our obedience and our love for people that we’ll find God has already been there, orchestrating and setting things up for us. And so he was healed shortly after that shopping a couple blocks up the road at a supermarket and the owner sees me and he says, Hey, I hear you pray for people and they get better.

John (09:20):
I said, yeah, that’s right. He goes, well, we got a young man here. Who’s got severe back pains. Would you pray for him? I said, sure. So they called him in. He came in and we went to the back stock room and everybody gathered around and I said to him, I said, do you know why Jesus wants to heal you? He said why? I said, because he loves you. And he has a plan for your life. That’s so much better than the plan you have. Do you understand? He said, yes. And then I laid hands on him and prayed for him. And in the Lord touched him and healed him. It was so powerful. W I was out walking one day and went to my barber and he’s, he’s talking with some other Muslim guys in there and he comes to me.

John (10:03):
He says, I’m going to have an operation in five days because I’ve got these really bad back pains from carrying this meat and stuff, you know, he’s a big guy and turned around and walked away. Well, I walked over to him and I said, do you have pain right now? He said, yeah. I said, give me your hand. And he’s like, what? And while he’s looking at me with this curiosity, he gives me his hand. And I said, I pray for people and they get better. Oh, okay. So I just, they’re all staring at me. These four Muslim guys were standing there, all just staring at me. And I just prayed press in the name of Jesus. I command the pain to leave this back. And father, I pray for healing to flow into him right now. Let your Holy presence come all over Samir right now in Jesus name.

John (10:49):
And then I said, amen. I didn’t pray a real long prayer. And I said to him in a very short time, you’re going to see a big change. He said, inshallah. And I said, no, inshallah. I said, you’re going to see a big change. So I walked out two days later, I’m out walking with two of my girls. And I said, let’s check on Samir. We walked over. He standing in the doorway of his, his butcher shop and he sees me and he smiles and he says, Oh man, he goes, five minutes after you left, all the pain was gone. Please come in and sit down and have a tea. So I went and sat down and he’s telling me how he was checked out. And he was completely healed. And drinking this, he brought me a soda water, and then a guy comes in, he’s a truck driver.

John (11:34):
And it was delivering meat to him and stuff. Well, he comes in and they’re talking in Arabic. That’s the language in that particular area. And they come over and they said to me, the butcher says, he’s got pain in his back too. Would you pray for him? I’m like, I looked at the guy and I said it because he said his right arm was numb. He had pain that went all the way down his leg. And it was mainly in his back. And I said, do you want to keep this pain? And he looked at me like I was crazy, but Jesus was that way. You know, what do you want? Well, I want you to pray for me. I said, okay. So I said, give me your hands. So he gave me his hand. I prayed a simple prayer. And before I could finish this guy is like looking up and turning around and twisting around saying, well, who touched me?

John (12:20):
What did you do? And the butcher says, he can’t believe he says all the is gone. There’s healing in his arm. He said that he can feel again. And he was so excited and, and he was saying all of this, all of that. I said, Allah, didn’t do that for you. I said, Jesus did that for you. And so he runs out to his truck. He brings his wife. And this is in the butcher shop. And his wife, he says, she’s had problems with her throat. She can’t swallow many foods. Could you pray for her? I said, sure. As soon as I put my hand on her head, the Holy spirit came all over her. You could. And she started crying and she started to shake. She’s never been in a Benny Hinn meeting or anything. She didn’t know she was supposed to do that. She’s a Muslim background. This was so in the Holy spirit, came all over this woman and completely healed her. And the husband said, do you have a business card or something? And the butcher guy started laughing. He goes, this isn’t a business. He said. And then he kind of said, if you need anything more, you just tell me, I know how to get ahold of him. He’s my friend.

John (13:32):
But I believe in being a witness. And you know, when you, when you’re Jesus to a world that’s suffering, I don’t care what their background is, how deceived and what the darkness is. It’ll draw people in, open the door for you. And it’s love it’s based out of love for people. It’s not going to happen. If you, if you’re just trying to do Hocus Pocus, abracadabra, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about a genuine heart based love for people that starts with the Holy spirit. That’s that love that’s been poured out in our hearts by the Holy spirit

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:11):
Every year you do a Holy spirit conference. And it sounds like really your secret for reaching people is relying on the gifts of the Holy spirit. You’ve mentioned healing, words of knowledge God’s sending dreams and visions to people. Talk to me a little bit about why it’s important to be filled with the Holy spirit when you’re working in a difficult area.

John (14:39):
Yeah, well, he’s called our helper and he was sent to us for a reason. And every year I teach, we have, we’ve done this for 17 years. Now, this Holy spirit conference, we believers from all over the nation to come. You know, the Holy spirit works in two ways. He works in us and he works when he comes upon us. And it’s clear, you know, when the disciples were filled in John, the first ones that were saved and when John 20, when Jesus breathed on them and said, receive the Holy spirit. Well, they did. I mean, obviously if Jesus said, do you receive the whole, you would. And he blew. He breathed on them. They received the Holy spirit, but then he telled the told the same disciples, wait for the Holy spirit, wait for this gift in Jerusalem. Well, that’s another work of the Holy spirit, the Holy spirit work upon us.

John (15:24):
And so the first one is for salvation and it has to do with developing those fruit of the spirit in our lives. But the second work is for empowerment for being a witness in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and to the animals parts. And so we, we want both, you know, it starts with that first work of salvation. We have the Holy spirit, but then we need that empowerment to be witnesses. And that’s our theme every year, the work of the Holy spirit in the life of the believer, the work of the Holy spirit in the life of the church. And I can’t get away from the, the, the need for us to understand that this has to work out of a love for God and a love for people because we, we tend to can things in the church. You know, we, we bottle it up and we sell it or we promoted, but the gifts work always best and more effective and powerfully when love is the motive in, in that love can only come from God.

John (16:21):
And so we, we teach about that. We talk a lot about that. And so, you know, every year we see many people filled with the Holy spirit for the first time. And we were I was just telling a story yesterday about while we were in the nation of Bulgaria and had right after the wall came down and had massive citywide revival. And we had groups come in, we had believers come from nine different nations that were 114 believers sent out in the daytime. We would send them out in small groups. And the rain of the Holy spirit was coming upon that nation at that time. And people were coming back with such wild testimonies of how God touched people, supernaturally, how the mute spoke for the first time. I literally, with my own eyes saw blind eyes opened and a young 10 year old girls seeing for the first time her father was a policeman that it stopped me for speeding the day before. And I invited him to the meeting and he brought his blind daughter and God touched her. This guy wept. I tell you, as he watched his daughter reading signs on buildings for the first time,

Daniel King (17:34):
Unique way to get out of a speeding ticket is like, do you have anyone sick in your family? Bring them, Jesus will heal them,

John (17:45):
Tell you, you know the love of God and the power of God, moving through, manifesting in gifts that bring healing in life. God’s not out to do Hocus Pocus. He loves people. He wants to heal bodies. He wants to heal hearts and in relationships and bring people to wholeness again. And so we have the answer hallelujah. And we, we need to step out more, I believe. You know, I, I just want to say this. We complicated. Well, we, we talk about reaching Muslims. You know, we want to get into all their arguments and try to win them. I don’t do that. I do everything to avoid the arguments. You love them. I love them.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:30):
Our goal is not to win an argument. It’s to win a soul.

John (18:32):
Yeah. And usually I’ll ask a simple question. Cause they say, they believe God sent Jesus as a prophet. I’ll say then why, why did he do that? Why do you think Jesus came? Why did God send him? And they usually say something like, well, he was bringing a special message or whatever, but I said, well, let me tell you why he came. And I opened up my Bible and I show him first Timothy, one 15. It clearly States God sent Jesus into the world to save sinners. And then after I read that to them, I’ll ask them this question. Was he successful? Or did he fail? Well, of course he was successful. How was he successful? How did he save sinners that opens the door to share the gospel? I believe Jesus. If you look at his life, he always controlled the dialogue. He led the dialogue. Even when the woman tried to distract him in some area at the well, he led the dialogue and we, as God’s people need to learn how to lead the dialogue and not get taken down some rabbit trail. And, and that’s the enemy’s tactics, but we’ve, we can love people, but we can be led by the Holy spirit and, and know how to reach people and with a simple gospel. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:49):
Another big part of your ministry is translating books into the local language. And I heard you call books, sleeping teachers. What do you mean by that

John (20:01):
Teachers? Yes. I told our people recently, I was so excited to get these new books into their language. And to know that these books are on their shelves in their homes, the homes of all these believers, I said, but I call them sleeping teachers. I said, these sleeping teachers, even though they’re in your home and on your shelf, won’t help you at all until you wake them up. I said, think about it. We’ve got these great Bible teachers anointed by God to bring revelation and treasures from heaven to us to equip us and help us. But they’re sleeping on our shelves. I said, you have the opportunity now to wake them up. And how do you do that? You just pull the book off the shelf, you open it up and you start reading and you can know, and you can be sure the Holy spirit will be there to help cause those words and that teaching to come alive to you and do equip you and help you to grow spiritually, which is God’s will for your life. And so I encourage our people to wake up the sleeping teachers, those great books, faith building books that we’re having translated into their languages.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:07):
So books are sleeping teachers. We have to wake them up and learn from them. That that’s a great way to spread the gospel is to do literature distribution. You’re working in a restricted access country. What are some of the challenges of working in that type of environment? One challenge is that we can’t share your name with anyone today, right? And also we can’t tell every one to go to your website to give money, because that would be sharing that when it works. All right. So, so what are some of the challenges of, of working in this type of nation?

John (21:45):
Well, you know, every worker like myself missionary has to raise their own support and that’s difficult sometimes because in the age we live in what you do right now, it can be known five seconds later on the other side of the world. And so we have to be very careful and I’m even taking risks now with this broadcast podcast. But many times I’m just trusting the Lord of the Holy spirit to protect me and to cloak us, we’ve seen 150 missionaries kicked out of the country. I’m in, in the last two years. And even out of the city that we’re in, we’ve seen every missionary kicked out. We’re the only ones left. And I tell you I said to people in the God who brought me here will be the same guy who takes me out and I’m trusting him and he’s got me covered.

John (22:37):
And I, I believe that all the more reason we need to provide the materials like these books, the sleeping teachers, so that if an ever I am kicked out or forced to leave, we leave behind things that will help continue to equip and raise up leaders, you know, in those nations, in our nation. And so we’re focused on that. And so it’s challenging because we can’t do open evangelism. We can’t be too open. You know, where, where we’re at, about what we’re doing. We don’t have the word church written outside our church facility where we meet, we just, it’s by word of mouth people know. And we have a coffee house, coffee shop that we use as a front. And it’s a bridge to reach people with. It’s, it’s a way that we build relationships. And we’re, I believe we’re, first-class, we’re as good as Starbucks. And many customers come, we have many people come right in the center of our town and

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
We’re able to, and you know, the people come in and they’ll say, I don’t know what it is about this place, but your atmosphere is wonderful. There’s such peace here. And it’s an opening door for us to walk through and begin to share the gospel with them, to introduce the Prince of peace to the people that come in for a cup of coffee. Yes. Well, for those who are listening, I would encourage you to begin to pray for the nations in the middle East, pray for the Muslim world, pray for those who are working in the Muslim world, they need your prayers, they need God’s protection. And I would encourage you if you know, someone who is working in one of these restricted access countries in the middle East, the Muslim majority world if you could help to support them. Sometimes it’s very difficult for them to ask for money.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:45):
Sometimes it’s very difficult for them to report with what God is actually doing, because even the reporting of it and showing pictures and, and sharing numbers would put their lives at risk. And so if you know, someone who’s is working one of these countries, telling people about Jesus, I encourage you to support them, find them and help them out because this is one of the areas in the world that, that desperately needs a witness of the saving power of Jesus Christ. Yes, brother. Thank you for being with me. Amen. I’m calling you John today. And so brother John, we appreciate you being with us. Thank you for being on the evangelism pod. Thank you for the privilege. God bless you and all those listening. Thank you so much for listening to the evangelism podcast. Could you do me a favor, go to Apple iTunes and leave the evangelism podcast with Daniel King a review and your review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find this podcast. Thank you so much. And God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (25:55):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.