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Michael Duseau | What can an Evangelist Learn from Clinical Psychology?

Michael Duseau is eighty-four years young. He has a Doctorate of Clinical Psychology and he ran a successful real estate business. But at the age of forty-nine, he launched out into ministry and has now done amazing things for God in Nigeria, Russia, Sierra Leon, Libera, and many other places.

Michael Duseau leads Word of Power Ministries. You can reach him at: mjduseau1@msn.com

Questions I ask Michael Duseau: 

What did you learn from T.L. Osborn?

Why did you leave a successful business to go to Bible school?

What should the evangelist know about psychology?

Do you want to be a better evangelist? Call Daniel King, the Evangelism Coach.


Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Michael Duseau is 84 years young. He has a doctorate of clinical psychology and he ran a successful real estate business. But at the age of 49, he launched out into ministry. And now he’s done amazing things for God. In Nigeria, Russia, Sierra, Leone, Liberia, and many other places. Today, we listened to his story of what God has done through him.

Evangelism Podcast Host (00:25):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be welcome to the evangelism podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews, full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome to the evangelism podcast.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:03):
I’m Daniel King. And today I have a very special guest, Michael Duseau . He is from Word of power ministries, and he has been serving God in ministry for many, many years. He is now 84 years old brother Duseau thank you so much for joining me today.

Michael Duseau (01:24):
Yeah, well, I’m thrilled to have the opportunity to meet you. Number one, and to be able to send out the word to someone who’s listening to this, that it will affect their life forever for good. So,

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:37):
So tell me a little bit about how you got started in ministry, because you were very successful in business in real estate and in construction, you also have a doctorate in clinical psychology, so you were very successful, but when you were 49 years old, you decided to sell everything and go to Bible school and go into ministry. How did you come to make that decision?

Michael Duseau (02:04):
Well, very shortly, I honored my contract that I had with God that my brand new son who was born wearing eight pound, six ounces could not eat anything. And he was dying. And miraculously I surgeon came and I was up in Vermont and operated on my son. But while he was operating, I made a deal with God and I don’t, don’t get mad at me. Then a lot of places where people make deals with God long as their heart is true. So I said Lord I don’t deserve to live, but my son does. So if you let him live, I will honor what I said I would do and become a priest, a Catholic, because I was raised Catholic until I learn more and go back and become a minister and serve you and serve Jesus and do what I promised I would do. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:02):
You, you made a deal with God because your, your son did not die. He lived,

Michael Duseau (03:07):
He’s healthy as a horse. He’s an athlete. He teaches tennis and soccer. He’s brilliant. He’s got, and he’s, he’s just a good, very good man. He has only one son. Okay. But he’s he’s good.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:21):
So you came here to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and you decided to attend a victory Bible Institute with pastor Billy Joe and Sharon Doherty. And your ministry was, was influenced by them by graduating there. And then also you had an association with Dr. TL Osborn, the great missionary evangelist from here in Tulsa. What, what did you learn from T.L. Osborn?

Michael Duseau (03:50):
From T.L. Osborn I learned that you have to live outside the box while you are being a man of God and you are following the Bible. You have to be free enough and loose enough to be able to explore other possibilities than what you have been taught. Keeping yourself honest and straight with a word of God and what it says and what we call the good book. His soul was the most obviously open minded person I’ve ever seen in the ministry. And he’s the one who started an open air evangelism wing in Africa. And when I went to Africa, all they had to say was, I studied with T. L. Was born and they say, come on, mate, what do you want to teach? What do you want to preach? Uyou just go right ahead. They,uBenson Idahosa, Archbishop Benson, you know, Benson Idahosa,and in Africa sat down his Bible school. So my wife, Janice and I could teach because we are from TL. Osborn.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:56):
Benson Idahosa was there in Nigeria and had a tremendous ministry in Beneen. And I’ve actually had the chance to go over there and stay in his house. This was after he died, but to meet Mrs. Margaret, his, his wife, and to this day, they still have over 5,000 churches across Nigeria and other parts of Africa that are under their ministry. Benson Idahosa was an amazing man of faith. Great faith. What are some of the memories you have of Benson Idahosa.

Michael Duseau (05:31):
Benson Idahosa was a man who did not take no for an answer. When he walked, I told an airplane and it was full. He just said who wants to give up their seat for Jesus? And 12 people were to get up and walk off the plane. I mean, that’s power, that’s love that’s commitment. That’s being know what is to dominate in, in the secular world. But mostly I remember that he, hadn’t no thoughts about his background. The fact that he was picked up out of a dump by a teenage girl, as an infant and God saved his life that way. And then he never looked back and I never once heard him say about how he came out of the dump or how he came out of things were so bad and terrible and everything else. He just looked forward. Look at that. I’ve been in that, that could, the jewel, he built, I’ve lived in his home over there, like you did. He just kept looking forward and, and no one dared, okay. Question what he was saying. Cause he always connected it to the word of God. That’s what I learned from him. Don’t try to teach something. You don’t, you have not lived, he would say you have to live it. And boy, he sure did live it.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:49):
So your first mission experience was there in Nigeria or right after finishing Bible school. But since then you’ve traveled to many different countries and you’ve been establishing churches, building churches. You’ve been to Russia Sierra Leone, Liberia, and many other places. Tell me about some of the, the churches that you’ve established.

Michael Duseau (07:15):
Well, if I was the first church I establish it was in a Bo town, which is the second largest city in Sierra Leone, right after Freetown town. That’s right. Thank you. And I went there, I got there cause I was invited there. Someone I, someone heard about what I did in Nigeria and said, we wanted you to come here. And it was this young man who had a small Bible study and you know, Stephen FOYA who, by the way, has pastored the church. I’d built there for the last 10 or 11 years, very successfully. So I went there to just have a crusade, right. And we did when we did, we had a tremendous miraculous events. And then I decided that we took over that, that a little Bible study he had and started looking for a leader to plant a church because I am a church planter and a Bible school planner and an orphanage builder. So I’m always looking for who is the leader that God has put in my path that I can pass on what I have gotten from Billy Joe Doherty, tell Osborne, Kenneth Hagan at all these people that I’ve studied thoroughly. Okay. I want to pass it on. Okay.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:35):
Yeah. So you’re have a background in construction. Oh yes. And so you don’t just establish churches. You also work to, to build them tell me about some of the, the building projects you’ve done over the years.

Michael Duseau (08:52):
Well, the first one we built was in Botox. Okay. In Sierra Leone. All right. And of course they didn’t, they didn’t happen there. They were meeting under a tree. He has little Bible study under a tree. All right. And when I got there, I went to the Bible study and I said I watched what he was doing. And he gave him a free hand to teach what he wanted to teach. And then would credit take critique what he was doing. But then I said, we need to build a church here. Okay. Because I was told by the Holy spirit that this is the man that you’re going to, that you should be building up. Okay. So what we did was we actually built a bamboo church, but it was a hundred feet long and 40 feet wide. And it lasted almost three years until the wind blew it down.

Michael Duseau (09:39):
Well, but then when I came back, I saw that the church was just about gone. I said, well, it’s time to build an American church. Let’s get some sand and cement. And land was given us by the mayor of Sierra Leone, which was his uncle. So we got the land. We love with it. All we poured, made the concrete pad then started making our own concrete blocks with boys five and six year old carrying blocks on their head, the women mixing the cement and concrete and we built a beautiful 120 foot, 45 foot wide beautiful church concrete. Okay. And with iron black iron wood tresses Trestles up, up in the roof. So that thing will be there when Jesus comes back. So we been in an American church that it was going to last and that would be attract people. Okay. Well with windows fans and everything that we needed, because in that building is the church, the Bible school and the orphanage.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:40):
I like your, your strategy. I’m always interested in the strategies that people use to, to reach people. So it sounds like you, you started out with some, some crusades and then he was already having a little Bible study and then you build the church, starting with bamboo, then turn it into concrete blocks, but then also including a orphanage and then a Bible school. And so you’ve established several Bible schools in different parts of the world. Why do you feel that it’s important to start Bible schools?

Michael Duseau (11:14):
Well, it’s the old saying about, you better teach a man to fish than just give him manifestation because he’s, he’s gonna have his hand out, like he’s on welfare and want to just keep being fed. Well, that’s not where I’m on an author. We’re on this earth to give okay. To acquire, but to give, okay. And the civil war that they have between Liberia and Sierra Leone killed 240,000 people.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:41):
What years was that war being fought?

Michael Duseau (11:45):
Whoa is it’s tough when I have to go back and see, when was I aware? This was after Nigeria. So Nigeria was 80, let’s say 87, 88, 89. This was in 89.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:03):
And, and were you there in Sierra Leone and Liberia working during that time when the civil war was being fired?

Michael Duseau (12:11):
We were in Liberia at the time, rather than Sierra Leone. And we were held up in a Baptist retreat house. And at night you could hear right at the Tet budget at the Tet. Well, those are not mice running around the room. Those were people with automatic machine guns, firing and war was still going on. Yeah. We were there during that time and there was a 50 caliber machine gun right out front of that, of that wall. See, I’m, I’m an ex U S army man. Also, I can tell you what, what weapon is firing. So, and so in any case, we were there during that time and you don’t go out, you know, after dark unless you’ve got some very important thing to do. So that was in, and that led to our first church in in Liberia. Wow.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:57):
I mean, I remember some of those reports from the war in Sierra Leone, where people were having their arms chopped off their legs were being chopped off. I mean really horrible things. But now it’s, it’s more peaceful, which I’m happy about because I’m actually about to go to Sierra Leone and we’re going to be doing a crusade and, and then training up some evangelists and we have a strategy for planting some churches in an area that doesn’t have any churches. So I’m very excited about that, but this will be my first time to Sierra Leone to tell me some about the culture and that the people there in Sierra Leone,

Michael Duseau (13:37):
Well, the culture is still tribal. There is no national culture in these West African nations. And that’s what caused the civil war that killed all these 240,000 people. But the, I was after they got the war done in Liberia the, a woman became president of Liberia between and she, we worked with her and my wife has spent almost 30 years teaching blind. That was her profession. So we, we made contacts and brought a container of equipment over for the school for the blind over there. All right. So that’s, and we, we do other things and just have, have crusades, but sure. We, we have our crusades, but then we look for like there was no school for the blind in, in this country. Well, there was the beginning of one, but we filled a giant container, got a sent over free by Firestone rubber is a I’m syllabus. And this man, if I can get something for free for the Lord, I’m going to get it okay. In a week we sent a container to Russia containers through Africa and we, we are able to get everything done by just using the word of God.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:58):
Yeah. Another part of your, your ministry that I’m really interested in is the fact that you have a doctorate in clinical psychology. You don’t run into many ministers that are also trained in clinical psychology. And I think it’s something that people would benefit from knowing a little bit more about psychology. What are some of the things that from your, your background, as in clinical psychology, that, that you think evangelists should know about psychology,

Michael Duseau (15:33):
Number one, learn to identify the problem. And you, you can only learn that by learning the symptoms by learning the Cutler cultural background. Okay. And when you first you identify the problem for residents, are we talking about psychotherapy say psychosis from a a bad upbringing? Are we talking about a deep depression? From there, the, the situation they’re in right now I broken a marriage self mutilation. All these things are caused by someone else affecting that person, the person showing the symptoms is the person who was being used and abused by another person. Who’s not showing the symptoms of, of any psychological problem. It’s like they’re being scapegoated okay. In their family. And there’s usually if you have three or four or five children in one family and they’re born pretty close together sooner, it happens very often that one of them is going to be the scapegoat that gets all the blame for things.

Michael Duseau (16:44):
So you have to, which is on healthy. Yeah. You have to go through the family history, but you all do that. Once you identify it, then you go to the Bible. And I, I, as I said earlier, in our private conversation, I can trace every form of cycle, like that little says back to the words of the Bible, the words of Jesus, the apostles. Okay. And the profits, a and R man, and in, in a proverb, in Psalms the solution is there, the solution is there for broken marriages, a solution is there for a psychosis demon, ology we’re living in a most demonic time in really pretty much in history. I have any that’s going on now. It’s not political. It’s not psychological. It’s deemed monic. Okay. And because the spirits are running havoc in this country and, but they’re using psychology as a neuro excuse that’s that’s, that’s not what, what does, what does it, yeah. We wrestle

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:50):
Not against flesh and blood, but against every principality in the powers of darkness. And so I think that’s really important to remember. I think it’s really key. What you said is that all of the different psychological cures, and in ways of, of helping people, you can trace that back to the Bible. And the Bible actually speaks to every different kind of problem that humans can have. There’s nothing.

Michael Duseau (18:19):
I learned that firsthand when I went to a victory, a victory Bible Institute at the time, and I tried using my, my, my carnal psychological means of counseling with the same meager of success of three to 4%. That’s like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Okay. so then when I asked the Holy sprit, I said, what’s going on here? I’ve sold everything I own. We’re here at the Bible school. We’re committed to the rest of our life to serving why can I get some success, some real success here. Okay. And in my heart and my mind, the Lord said, what are you using to counsel? I said, what? I’ve been taught? I’m in the field of psychology. Yeah. But then, then I’m taking. Yeah. But I am in Bible school. So the Holy spirit said counsel from the Bible.

Michael Duseau (19:12):
And I said, you mean to tell me everything that I’ve been taught is in the Bible. He told me himself counsel from the Bible, it’s in the Bible. So naturally I got, you know, I I’d love to do research. Well, I got on it. I mean, like fleas on a dog. I was on it. All right. And then I started using, how do we count? What did Paul say about my riches? What does it say? What in Judaism? What parts of Judaism can you use? All right. And I started using those 5%, 10%, 20%, one in five, two and five. Pretty soon if I was missing one, it was a one out of 10 that it was missing. Wow. Once I got them on believing that the solution is not psychology, but I understood what we had here was either a male dominant situation or a female dominant situation, or a family that has a witchcraft in, in, in the past.

Michael Duseau (20:14):
And now it’s coming out as a, as a psychological problem. But it really is a difference of seances and, and all this kind of terrible stuff. And that, that brings in a family curses. And they can run on for generation after generation with nothing done about it. And they think it’s psychology. I mean, psychiatry gets a bad rap sometimes. Yes, the percentage of cure C, but the curing in psychology is that you get rid of this problem and you never have the problem again. Well, we can, we can help to function socially, which they were not functioning, but not at the, you know, cure. It’s gotta be divine. It’s gotta be the word of God. It’s gotta be the Holy spirit, because that way it’s done once. And for all, and all they have to do, should they feel they’re starting to slipping back is go to what you were taught by your Christian counselor. Go back to the word. He taught you, go back to what you changed in your life. Okay. And bang. They come right back. They get strength and strong again. So

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:18):
Jesus has an excellent track record of helping people to be cured. It’s not 4% is what is way better than that. And I’ve seen many people whose lives have been completely turned around and changed by the power of God’s word. And when I, when I preach, I often do focus on the, the, the emotional aspect of healing. Like one of my favorite sermons is Matthew nine. The, the paralyzed man who was let down through the roof, Jesus says three things to him. He says, take heart, which means be encouraged. And he says, son, your sins are forgiven. And then he says, get up and walk. And so I think it’s very interesting. Matthew is the only one of the three synoptic gospels that, that has the words of Jesus saying, be encouraged or take heart. But I think that’s very interesting because Jesus encouraged the man before he forgave the man sins. And before he healed his physical body, but Jesus encouraged them because Jesus cares about what’s going on in our, in our mind. And the psychology of, you know, that man probably was depressed and sad and lonely. He’s laying there all day paralyzed, but Jesus healed him mentally and emotionally before he started dealing with the sin and the, in the physical problem of the man

Michael Duseau (22:39):
And EV every time I would counsel someone Christian Wise, I would always be sure they understood, listen, you are forgiven. All you have, and God has buried that sin in the deepest ocean of the world. And he said, he’s never going to remember it. So I don’t want you to remember it and just get out of that mess because God has taken you out of that mess. You are a healed sealed for a given son or daughter of God, and don’t let anybody put you back in that box. Amen.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:13):
While your latest project is to go to the land where Jesus walked to Israel in the city of Jerusalem, then they’re three and two to you have in your heart to start a Bible school there to tell me, tell me about that project.

Michael Duseau (23:27):
Well, actually we have started the Bible school there, but the point is that there is a particular political organization, which purposely seeks out ministers who are trying to initiate Bible schools or Protestant churches and expelled him from the country. Now that is a fact which I’m, I’m sure of. So we have to, you have to progress, but help or ask of a good couple of rabbis who can tell you where the pitfalls are. All right. So yeah, we went there, my wife and I went there twice. I’ve been there three times where I got, I got things started a man from India tool who was taking care of the situation. We had six or seven students at one point. And then because unfortunate, my wife became ill ill enough that I had to take her and bring her back to the States.

Michael Duseau (24:27):
So a tool is still kind of a holding the Fort, but our six or seven, a two until down to three because number one, the teacher’s not there. Number two, they can’t get firsthand answers to their questions. You know, yes, we’re sending them a lot of CDs and information from TL, from Billy Jo, Charles cabs, Kenneth Hagan and Canada Copeland. They’re getting all that stuff, fed to them. Okay. But without ask, answering their questions, after they get the presentation, they lose the benefit of it. They lose the belief in what they just heard, because they have questions like that. This group, we have a with the seniors the, the, the group I have right now is about the hard sayings of Jesus, the hard sayings of Paul alleged discrepancies in the Bible. And when I walk in everyone who comes is going to get one of these books by Josh McDowell.

Michael Duseau (25:24):
Cause cause just take their first page. And it talks about, well, what is it? Okay, what’s the problem. And there 65 different questions here that cynicals have, but the answer is there, but we don’t use that, that we use their personal experiences. Well, right. But I have, I have over 300, 400 books in personal library about, this is one that I’ve used consistently, along with the hard sayings of Jesus, heart sayings of Paul and alleged discrepancies in the Bible. But most people won’t ask the question because I’m sorry to say most people who are teaching have done enough research to perhaps teach the class, but not to answer the hard questions. Why does bad things happen to good people? How can of all loving God allow an infant to be killed in a car accident. People have those questions, but they don’t have the courage to ask the question because if they ever broached that question at some other place or they either got laughed at, or it’s near that or said the well, well, just, you’re just supposed to believe. Just, just know don’t ask questions, just believe again. And I say, no American people, they’re not stupid. They’re not going to just believe they want an answer. That makes sense.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:46):
You’ve been in ministry for a long time, 33 years, 33 years. What type of advice would you give to young people who are just starting out in ministry?

Michael Duseau (26:58):
Two things. If you really think that you have a calling of God, first of all, you asked the Holy spirit. Okay. Zariah. I want to be sure I have the calling of God. And you can should say I understand that fasting is very good to be in contact with the whole spirit of God. Should I fast? And the Holy spirit will just held them in their heart. Yes or no. Like when I had to find out where I was going, when I graduated, I knew I wasn’t evangelist, but I didn’t know where I should go. What country? What, what? So I, and I asked the Holy spirit and I said, should I fast? He said, yes. I said, how long? He said three days. I said on what? Just water. So I passed the three days and just water that at two 30 in the morning, on the fourth day, I said, okay, Holy spirit.

Michael Duseau (27:40):
Now we made a deal. You will say that you, you would tell me where I was going. I said, no, tell me, how do I get started? Where am I going? Okay. And then I listen. Well, I do have learned to listen anyway. And he said, three words, go to Nigeria. Now my best friend in Bible school was Ambrose Atoka who was from Nigeria, but I had no desire to go to Nigeria. I grew up in a, in an all white neighborhood city with one African family. And I knew nothing about that culture. So I said Holy spirit. Yeah, sure. I’ll will. But how do I get started? Who do I contact? How do I get into a country? I said, could you tell me a little more than just go to Nigeria? Okay. And then of course I showed up and listen, which is most important thing you can do when you’re praying. Yeah. And then he said, go to Nigeria.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:37):
He tells you the same thing again, twice,

Michael Duseau (28:40):
Three times, Daniel, three times he said, go find I said, I think I’m pushing my luck. I think I better just

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:49):
Take what I better just go anyway. You can find a go, just go.

Michael Duseau (28:53):
Everything just fell in line. Wow. That’s

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:55):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing some of your story, brother, Michael too. So it’s a privilege to have you on the evangelism podcast. I really appreciate your ministry and all the amazing things that you’ve done for Jesus over the years we ain’t finished yet. You’re not finished yet. Well, Jerusalem. Amen. Well, thank you so much for being with us today for that.

Michael Duseau (29:20):
It’s very much appreciate the invitation. I really enjoyed myself. God bless you. God bless.

Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:25):
Thanks so much for listening to the evangelism podcast today. If you want coaching and how to be a more effective evangelists, get in touch with me@kingministries.com. And could you do me a favor? Go find the evangelism with Daniel King on iTunes and leave us a review. Your positive review will help other people who are excited about evangelism to find us. God bless you

Evangelism Podcast Host (29:54):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches. Visit King ministries.com. Again, that’s King ministries.com.


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