1 877-431-4276Every Home for Christ | David Schaal
David Schaal is the USA National Mobilizing Director for Every Home for Christ. He works to help pastors and ministries equip their people to carry Christ everywhere they go. Today he shares his testimony about how he was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness but became a believer. We also talk about the statistics behind how Christians in America share their faith.
Learn More About Every Home for Christ: https://everyhomeusa.com/
Also check out: everyhome.org
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, David Shaw, from Every Home for Christ. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
David Schaal (00:12):
Hey, thank you, Dan. Appreciate for the invite. This is exciting. I, I too have that same heart excited about telling people about Jesus. So this is right up my alley.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:21):
That’s awesome. Well, tell me what your position is with every home for Christ and, and, and what you do.
David Schaal (00:27):
Sure. Well, right now, currently I am the USA National Mobilizing director. Meaning simply this is that I, I go out there and help pastors, help churches, help local ministries mobilize their people simply to, to live on mission, to carry Christ wherever they live, wherever they work, wherever they play.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:48):
And tell me a little bit about every home for Christ. I know it’s been around for a long time. You guys have a great history and have done a lot of evangelism. Kind of tell me some of the history and, and what every home for Christ is doing now.
David Schaal (01:03):
Oh, wow. How much time do we have here today? Because you’re right. I mean, I, I have the privilege of working for a ministry, I would say serving in a ministry that, that has really been carrying Christ to the nation, to, to everyone, everywhere and every generation. For now, I think 76 years. So we started out in 1946. And from that point, we, we just continually going and helping churches, helping believers with either resources or training on really caring Christ to the world. And, and that’s really, I would say, kind of in a nutshell of what we’ve done for a, as a ministry who we are, well, we’re simply, we’re a global network of local catalysts. So, so let me explain kind of what that means. We’re in a, we have 180 offices in 155 different nations around the globe. So it’s not like we’re a ministry that sends missionaries to go do the work. We, we come alongside local Catalyst indigenous church, and, and we, we simply help them mobilize their people. So whether, whether it’s in nations of Africa, whether it’s in the Middle East, whether it’s in Russia or where I get to serve right here in the United States, and we do the same thing. All, all the leaders around the globe do the same thing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:26):
Yeah. I I think it’s really neat. You, you really have a vision to reach every single home for Christ. And, and I’ve encountered your ministry in different countries that we’ve gone to. And so a few years ago, we were in the nation of Belize, and we did a 10 crusades simultaneously in the 10 greatest population centers in Belize. And I got to meet your national director there, Derek Pitts.
David Schaal (02:51):
Oh, my good buddy. That’s my buddy Derek
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:53):
Pitts. Yes. And, you know, he just came alongside the vision that, that we had to people for Jesus and, and served and helped provide literature. And we were able to take that literature into homes, into schools. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> distribute it all across the nation. And you helped to recruit Derek.
David Schaal (03:13):
Oh, <laugh>. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:14):
Like, tell, tell me a little bit about that and like, like how you first started that relationship, and then how you’ve been developing leaders in the Caribbean.
David Schaal (03:23):
Well, you know, when I I, I started off with every home for Christ being a, I was a local pastor here in the US before we really had a US focus. So I was a local pastor, but served the ministry of every home for Christ as the Caribbean coordinator at the time. So trying to, to go in and help churches within the, the Caribbean to, to establish the every home for Christ ministry. I mean, what we do is we, we inspire and empower the church to carry Christ to the world. So we wanted to be in every Caribbean nation. One of my trips brought me to the nation of Belize, and just through a series of events I was able to meet Derek. And Derek was a young man at the time. I, I look at him, I don’t know if he would look at me as a spiritual father, but I look at him as a spiritual son, just a, a great leader, a a man full of passion. A a man has such a great gift in this and, and a heart to really reach the law. So when we went into the nation, we found somebody that, that really had a, like mind, had had a, like vision like purpose in life. It was able, just really easy to get behind him and, and really kind of train him and, and teach him and equip him. And he, he took to the leadership and he’s doing such a great job in the nation of Belize.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:35):
Yeah. He, he has become such a wonderful man of God. All right. So you’ve now transitioned from the Caribbean to more of a focus here in the United States. Correct. And so tell me some of, of what you’re trying to accomplish here in the us.
David Schaal (04:51):
Well, simply, I would put it this way, we’re, we’re, again, we’re, we’re doing the same thing. We want to in inspire and empower the church really to carry Christ to the world. That means right here in the US as well. So the way that we do this is we bring pastors together. We believe in serving the local church. We believe in coming alongside pastors and helping pastors and, and outreach leaders to really equip and immobilize their church. So we bring pastors together. We, we, we love on pastors. We, we, we share with, give him a good meal, but at the same time, we share with them the history of things that we have learned and, and, and really how to equip their local church. So, for one of the things that we’ve did a, a nationwide study, we partnered with the Barna group here in the us did a nationwide study simply looking for the, the common practices and the perceptions that the local or the everyday, I would say Christ follower has not, not the evangelists like you and I. Okay, sure. We were talking about the everyday Christ follower. Like what would it take for them to, to share? Are they sharing their faith? Are they if so, what’s working? If not, why not? So we did a huge study. So when I bring pastors together, we kind of relay the kind of the results that study. We, we, we share with them some of the findings we’ve had. And and then,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:10):
And what, what are some of the, the findings? I mean, the Barna Group is the, the gold standard. They are in doing Christian research. Yes. They do such a great job with their research questions and, and, and very valuable insights. Every single time I get a chance to see one of Marna’s research projects, I always purchase it and get ahold of it. Great. Because it, it really gives insights into today’s generation. So, so what are some of those insights that you found in your research?
David Schaal (06:37):
Well, this will, so we, we want to know what the, what the common practice and perceptions were. Yeah. So the perceptions, like, you know, and I think, I think if that there’s a maybe a belief out there in the church that, you know, Christians are anti evangelism, right? They don’t, they don’t want evangelism or they, they’re not doing evangelism for whatever reason. So we wanna know, is that true? You know, not just an assumption, but is it true? So, yeah. So Barna did this complete study, and one of the questions they ask is really, really telling. They ask, do you, and if you do, how often do you pray for an opportunity to share your faith? So they ask the everyday, Christian, are you praying for opportunities? If you do, how often? 72% of those surveyed responded that they pray at least once a month to share their faith.
(07:24):
Wow. Oh, that’s exciting news. Yeah. 40% of those said that they prayed daily for that opportunity. You know what that tells me, Daniel, it tells me the church is not anti evangelism. They’re praying for opportunities to go out there and to share their faith. Another question we asked was like, what are you willing to do? Are you willing to pray for somebody? Are you willing to show hospitality? Are you willing to share your own faith story? We had about four or five different things they asked. And in every one of those things we asked, what is the Christian willing to do? They were either very willing, willing, somewhat willing, or not willing. Very willing and willing was in the high 90 percentiles on all of that. Which, which for me, I was excited. Cause I’m thinking that’s the bride of Christ. They, they want to brag about the bride groom, right. That they, they want to share their
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:13):
Faith. Yeah. That’s actually good news.
David Schaal (08:15):
Oh, it’s great news. And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:16):
And, and for the church, you know, sometimes people think of, of Prosci slys in negative terms. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like, oh, I don’t wanna shove my beliefs down someone’s throat. Okay. Yeah. But I think if you were to like, are you willing to share your faith story mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, then people are much more willing.
David Schaal (08:34):
Exactly. Exactly. So to do that, now, check this out. There’s another question. We said, okay, well, how often are you doing it? Or if the opportunity came up, would you share your faith? So remember, 72% are praying for opportunities in the high nineties are willing or somewhat willing or willing to do different activities. But 85% of those said that they allow a barrier to keep them from sharing their faith. When the opportunity comes. Now, to me as a researcher, that there’s a gap there. Wait a minute. You have these people praying for opportunities, they’re willing to do this, but when the opportunity comes, 85% said they don’t do that. So we went a little bit deeper into that and said, okay, well what, what are some of those barriers? So in this survey, simply 15% said they would not allow a barrier to stop them.
(09:27):
They would share their faith. The 85 picked a certain barrier. So the top three barriers, I think are very telling. Number one, the number one barrier with simply this, is that the, the believer did not want to be come off as confrontational, pushy, argumentative. And I get that. I mean, I don’t want, I’m not, I don’t wanna start an argument with somebody. Yeah. So, so whether taught or caught, they, it would, they’re understanding they didn’t wanna argue evangelism, right? So, so they, somewhere they thought that the participating in evangelism, you gotta call people out on their sin. You gotta tell. And, and you mentioned that that’s not good news. Now, please understand, the whole reason that Jesus came was cuz of the sin issue. So, I mean, we gotta deal with that at some point. But, but we’re saying, well, does it have to be at the genesis of the conversation? Does it have to be the very first thing you share with somebody? Do you, do you have to have a script that tells you this is the way you have to do it? Or is it a bride bragging about the bride groom? Yeah. The number two barrier.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:27):
And I like in Romans too, it says that it’s the goodness of God that draws men to repentance.
David Schaal (10:31):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:32):
Yeah. So if you start with the goodness of God, yes.
David Schaal (10:34):
It’s so good. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:36):
Good. It draws people to, they want to have a relationship with Jesus.
David Schaal (10:39):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I love it. And, and, and it’s, it works. I mean, it, it really, it really, really works. The, the number two barrier was simply this and get this, the, the believer didn’t share their faith. The barrier was this, that they didn’t feel qualified. Now we went a little bit deeper. This is the word that came out in the interviews, the word shame. That they were ashamed. They weren’t ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They knew it was the power of salvation. They were ashamed of their representation of the gospel. Meaning, how can I go and share my faith with my coworker Dan when, when Dan knows that I have an anger issue, or I struggle with lust, or I fill in the blank. And so simply what they’re saying is they didn’t want to be a hypocrite. How, how?
(11:21):
I don’t want to be a hypocrite, so I’m not good enough to do that. The third barrier was this, was that they didn’t know what to say. They didn’t know how to communicate without being pushy, confrontational argumentative and or hypocritical. So as a ministry, that’s what we’ve done in the US is we, we we’ve developed, understood what these problems are, these gaps. And we developed training that a local pastor could use to train his or her church on mobilizing them, overcoming these barriers. And, and that’s what one of our biggest in helping the local church in America. And we have found time, after time, after time, this is the result after an individual goes through, through a training. I didn’t know this was evangelism. If that was ave I would be doing that every day. And it’s like, yes, go out now. Please hear my heart.
(12:10):
Yes, we gotta take care and we gotta deal with the sin issue. Matter of fact, the Bible tells us the Holy Spirit does that. The Bible tells us in John I believe it’s chapter 16, that the Holy Spirit will convict the world according to sin, righteous, and judgment. Right. We just need to introduce them and bring the presence of holy spirits in their life by what you’re saying, sharing about the goodness of God, sharing them how good evangelism. I would say this is not telling people how bad they are, but it’s telling people how great Jesus is. And if the church would do that, and they’re willing to do that, think about how we would just kind of move that needle of the church. It wouldn’t be 85%, if we get to 85% just out there bragging about Jesus, just think of, of what that would affect the church, but not only the church, but the lives of the individuals who are living right now to a christless eternity. If they understood that there was a Jesus that loved him, that Jesus cared about them, that, that, that they’re not the objects of God’s wrath, but there’s a subject of his love. Oh, let me tell you the church, we have a great message to share.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:12):
Yeah. Amen. Well, I I go do large evangelistic crusades in different countries around the world, and so many different religions are represented. I never say anything to attack the local religion. I just lift up Jesus. Yes. Yes. And I think that when people see how good Jesus is Yeah. They will be attracted to him. Exactly. Jesus said, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men on me. That’s right. That’s right. And, and, and so, you know, I start by telling them, this is what Jesus did in Bible times. And then I share some testimonies. This is what Jesus has done in the lives of some of these people. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I share my testimony. This is what Jesus has done in my life. You’re sure. And then I tell ’em, this is what Jesus can do in your life. And by the end of the message, my goal is to make Jesus irresistible so that people cannot say no to Jesus. Exactly. Because I think when people see Jesus for who he is, it, it just opens up their hearts. Right. And, and then they’re, they’re quick and, and ready to say, yes, Jesus, please forgive my sins. Yes. Because they see, wow, Jesus died for me. He really gave his life so that I could have life.
David Schaal (14:15):
Yeah. You just shared my testimony. I mean, that’s, that’s my testimony. I was raised at Jehovah’s Witness. Wow. So, so I, I was in a realistic, this is
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:22):
Very legalistic.
David Schaal (14:23):
Very
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:23):
Legalistic. Works driven. Very
David Schaal (14:25):
Works driven. Yeah. You had, you had to go knock on doors. You had to sell, watch channel wake magazines. We went to five church services a week.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:33):
In fact, when I flew into Phoenix here mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to yesterday at the airport, I saw some watch tower people there with a,
David Schaal (14:40):
You know, why they’re doing that? Because that’s them earning their way to heaven. They don’t understand the grace of Jesus Christ. They don’t, they don’t understand. It’s already been paid. It’s already been paid. But people ask all the time, David, how did you, what, what scripture? What track? What, what did they say to you that caused you to lead the Jehovah Witness religion and become a Christian? And you know what? I can’t think of a track. I can’t think of a scripture. I’ll tell you another thing they didn’t do. I do not remember my friend Tracy, my friend Mike. I had many friends in high school, but Tracy and Mike shared Jesus with me. I can’t remember one time they told me I was a bad person, and it was, I had sin in my life. No, I did. Don’t get me wrong. Right. But they never called me out on it. You know what they did? They made Jesus irresistible till I got to the point that said, how could I not say yes to this Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:32):
Wow.
David Schaal (15:33):
That’s evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:35):
Praise God. Yes. And, and so walk me through that process. How did you go from being a Jehovah’s witness to finally saying yes to Jesus?
David Schaal (15:43):
Well I, it was, it was it, it didn’t happen in one conversation. Yeah. my entire senior year of high school, I, I think my friends who were Christians that, that I’ve been going to school with all since elementary school, I think they realized, Hey, we have one year left with David, so let’s, let’s kind of, whenever we get an opportunity, let’s share Jesus with them in some way. Somehow. some of it was very positive. Obviously I’m a Christian today, others of I had one of my classmates, she wrote this in my, in my senior yearbook. David read a real Bible <laugh>, you know, now was she speaking truth? Yeah. I need to re read a real bible cuz Joe Woodes had their own Bible. But that probably wasn’t love. I can’t say that that convinced me to, to look more into Jesus Christ.
(16:27):
But my friend Mike and Tracy, any opportunity they had, they continually, over time, over time, a process of multiple conversations. I, I would, I would be, be guessing, I would say hundreds of conversations they had with me about my faith and been them sharing me about their faith and what Jesus is doing in their life till the end of my school year. So probably nine months of senior year in high school where I just got to the point that said, I, I need, I, I need this. Jesus. You see, I saw peace. I saw contentment. I saw joy. I saw the fruits of the spirit in, in the life of my friend Tracy and, and her family. No, I didn’t know. I couldn’t call it out. What I did know was they, they had something I didn’t have. And I wanted it, and I wanted Jesus. Then Tracy said, was Jesus. I’m like, well, then I want that. And as soon as I said yes to Jesus, I started feeling that same joy and that commitment and that peace in my life. So that, that’s what we’re called to do. We’re called to share Jesus to, to those that God’s put in our world. And I praise God, Tracy and Mike did that. And, and, and I want to make sure I do that to as many people that God puts in my life as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:33):
Yeah. Let’s talk about how you help churches and pastors. So you were a pastor mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for many years before you, you started doing what you’re doing now. And if, if you, if a pastor came to you and say, how can I get my to be more evangelistic? Like, I want the people in my church to, to be bolder at sharing their faith. What are one or two things that you would share with the pastor
David Schaal (17:58):
Today? Only, only one or two <laugh>. I have a list of here, you know with the ministry of Very Home for Christ, we, we have, we have training and resources that, that we would, we, we give at, at they, they cost a lot of money, but, but we, we give at no cost. We really wanna serve the local church. Somebody, we have generous donors that say, Hey, let’s, let’s mobilize the American church. So we, we, we pass that on to the lo. So that’s one area. But, but I would say this, what what really works would be a, a couple things. One would be the pastor needs to share his or her experience in, in evangelizing outside the church. So when I pastor, there’d be many times I would share during an announcement time, Hey, let me share you with you.
(18:43):
What, what, what happened this week? Hey, I met a, I at the grocery store this week. I encountered this person or whatever. Yeah. I would share my experiences because the, the congregation is gonna mimic what the pastor’s doing. Yeah. So if the pastor is not, I would say the first thing for pastor is Pastor, you need to be out there living on, living on mission, sharing your faith outside of your pulpit ministry pastor. You need to be out there doing it, and you need to share that. The second thing is that I would have people every week on Sunday give a testimony of what their activities were. So somebody would come to me, Hey, pastor, I prayed with my class week today. Hey, today at church, I just want you to take 30 seconds. I want you to tell the church you did that.
(19:26):
And what that did is that showed that we made it, well, what we made that as an important aspect that this is what church is about, where about equipping the church, do the work of the kingdom. And so we’d have people come up and give testimony. Children, elementary school, high schoolers, college age, I mean, adults, whoever came to me and said, Hey, I wanna tell you what I did. Hey, you’re gonna tell the church today. But the other thing is this, is that we didn’t just chair the victories. Hey, this person said yes to Jesus. Hey, I got to pray with this person. Person would come to me at church, say, oh, pastor, I tried evangelism. As a matter of fact, I I was talking to my class today, and they all laughed at me. I said, you know what? I want you to share that with the church today.
(20:08):
You see, I think we got to a point in the church where all we did is share the victories and the wins. And not every time we share faith is there gonna be a victory or win. So what we celebrated wasn’t victory wins. We celebrated obedience in the church. So we would have people sharing stories like, oh, I tried this, but it fell flat on my face. But at least I tried. And we would clap for them. We would cheer them on because we wanted to celebrate obedience in the church. And the more you create a, that’s how you create a culture of an evangelistic culture in your church, is by giving testimony, sharing stories. People want to hear stories, not they need to hear their pastor stories, but they need to hear other people’s stories, both the highs and the lows. Because what that does, that makes a person say, oh, I could do that.
(20:53):
Yeah. And or if I, or if they fail, oh, it’s all right, so-and-so failed too, but, you know, I’m gonna give another try. So those are just a, a couple of the things that, that I would really encourage the, the church. But you need to, you pastor you, you need to make it a priority. If you’re not making it a priority, your church is gonna make it a priority. We make a lot of things priority in the church. And, and whatever you’re best at in the church, you, you may have the best worship team. That’s your priority. You, you may have the greatest offering because you make a priority of offerings. You want an evangelistic church, you want a church that’s winning the loss. Make winning the loss a priority in your church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:30):
Yeah. Amen. And I think every church should have that as a priority.
David Schaal (21:34):
Sure. I agree.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:35):
Well, if someone wants to get connected to every home for Christ, or they want to take advantage of some of the, the resources that you offer, or even to help support you guys, how can they find out more information? What’s, what’s your website? Sure.
David Schaal (21:49):
The, the website is very easy. It’s everyhome.org that, that’s our global international ministry website. And, and that will take you, give you opportunities to see what’s happening around the globe. So we spent the most of the time talking about kind of where I work, and that is in the US and how, but,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:07):
But overview kind of, of what’s happening in other countries too. Well,
David Schaal (22:10):
You know, globally, I mean, like I mentioned earlier, we’re, we’re in 155 nations probably have 180 offices. And, and like I mentioned before, we’re, we’re, we’re a global network of local catalysts, meaning that the, the work is going and, and pastors all around the globe are, are being equipped to be catalyst to carry Christ to their world. So, so many, I say we have 155 offices, offices, we may have 155 different ways that we’re carrying Christ around, around the globe. But, but it’s continuing to grow all the time. What we’re, we’re seeing people let me just say this. Numbers are big and, and things like that, but, you know, we’ve been around for now 76 years, but prop, approximately 334,000 believers every month are carrying Christ to the world through the ministry of every home for Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:06):
Wow. That’s amazing.
David Schaal (23:07):
It is amazing. I mean, I, I’m just, it gives me goosebumps. Sometimes you see a big number like that, you’re like, wow. But you know what? We need more. We, we, the, the, the church, we, we need everybody to come on board and participate in the mission that God has called us to the, the Great Commission, which I call, it’s our common mission. And that’s what God’s called us to. So everyhome.org is our, is our global national headquarters website for the ministry right here in the usa. It’s everyhomeusa.com. So you can go to everyhomeusa.com and you could see kind of the things that we, that we have as far as pro what we produce for, for churches, specifically for pastors. Because we believe this, we, we wanna stand behind a pastor. I could go to your church just like you can, Dan, we could go to church.
(23:55):
We could, we could encourage, we could train a church on how to evangelize that church gets excited that day until the next Sunday when they have another guest speaker. Yeah. Encouraging you something. But if the pastor trains his or her church, it now becomes the pastor’s vision and now becomes the culture of the church because the pastor led it. We’re big believers and come alongside that, that local pastor inspiring and empowering that pastor and the church to carry Christ to wherever they’re at. And that’s really what we do around the globe. So without going into detail, every little nuance, that’s kind of the bottom line. We, we inspire and empower the church to carry Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:43):
That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast.
David Schaal (24:47):
I Appreciate it. Oh, I appreciate the invite. Thank you so much, Dan. God bless you.
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Calling All Great Commission Workers to Amsterdam 2023 | Ashley Wilson
In June of 2023 there is going to be a massive gathering of evangelists, missionaries, pastors, and people who care about the Great Commission in Amsterdam. You are invited to be at the table and lend your voice to the effort to reach EVERYONE on earth with the Gospel. Today I talk with Ashley Wilson from Empowered21 about this amazing event and why you need to attend.
The questions we talk about:
What is Amsterdam 2023?
Who should come to Amsterdam 2023?
How can someone register for the event?
What is Empowered21?
What is the Holy Spirit doing in missions over the next ten years?
Be a part:
Come to Amsterdam 2023: https://amsterdam2023.com/
Join the Global Evangelist Alliance: https://globalevangelistalliance.com/
Connect with Empowered21: https://empowered21.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Ashley Wilson. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (00:11):
Hey, Daniel, I’m excited to be here and, and glad to talk about evangelism and what God’s doing with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Well, we are very excited about what is coming up because in Amsterdam this June 21, 22, 23, and 24, there is going to be a gathering of great commission, believers, evangelists, pastors, ministers from all over the world coming together in Amsterdam. And this is going to be one of the most significant historical events that have taken place in the body of Christ probably in my lifetime. Yeah. And so tell me a little bit about what God is going to do in Amsterdam.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (00:51):
Yeah, we’re really excited about what’s getting ready to happen in the next few weeks. I want to say if you’re an evangelist listening to this podcast, you need to be in Amsterdam, June 21st through the 24th. If you can’t get there, then make sure that you block out some time during those dates so that you can join us online as well. But it’s gonna be a gathering of several thousand great commission focused leaders, evangelists, missionaries, pastors from all over the world, talking about what we can do to get the gospel to every person on earth in the next decade. 2033 is going to be the 2000 year anniversary of the crucifixion, the resurrection, the ascension, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. And we believe that it’s possible to complete the Great Commission or fulfill the great commission by getting the gospel to every person, all eight plus billion of them on Earth over the next decade. If we work together, I think we can do it. And so we’re gonna be talking about that, praying about that collaborating with one another around that topic in Amsterdam. And I think it’s gonna change the direction of the church for our generation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:06):
Now, this initiative is led by the Global Evangelist Alliance, which is a, a group of some of the greatest evangelists that are alive today. And the Global Evangelist Alliance is under Empowered 21, which is a gathering of spirit empowered believers who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit and believe that the Holy Spirit is needed for world evangelism. And so tell us a little bit about the history of Empowered 21 and how the Global Evangelist Alliance was launched and how this whole plan for Amsterdam started being birthed. Sure.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (02:47):
So in Power 21, really the genesis of it happened around 2006, which was the hundred year anniversary of the Asuza Street Revival. When we gathered leaders from all of the different streams of Christianity that could trace their roots back to Asuza Street, gathered them together to celebrate what the Holy Spirit had done over the first century since the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Asuza Street. Fast forward a couple of years, and there were some changes at Roberts University happening, and a number of leaders who were involved in that change said, you know, what’s the purpose of Oral Roberts University? And from that they said, you know, the purpose of this place is to be a, a a a, a vessel of leadership for the Pentecostal and Charismatic Church around the world. So they begin to have some discussions. They begin to talk with a number of these leaders who had been together at the Asuza Street Centennial in 2006.
(03:45):
They said, what is the whole, we know what the Holy Spirit did over the last century, but what does the Holy Spirit want to do in our century? What is he calling us to do together? And out of those conversations, they came up with this vision, which I believe really is the, the heart of God, which is for every person on earth to have an authentic encounter with Jesus through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit by 2033. And so Empowered 21 is a relational leadership network that brings leaders from all the different streams of the body of Christ who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, brings them together around this vision. Can we get the gospel to every person on earth by 2033? And so that’s what we’re trying to do at Amsterdam.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:31):
Now, in the early years of the Pentecostal movement, going back to a Zeus street, Pentecostals suffered from a lot of misunderstanding and even persecution sometimes where people thought they were a little weird. Well, fast forward to today, and the Pentecostal charismatic spirit empowered movement is the fastest growing movement in the entire body of Christ. And now there are millions of spirit empowered believers around the world, and they are on the forefront of what God is doing. Evangelistically, I love going and doing crusades in, in different nations. And, and at our crusades, we preach that Jesus Christ is the same. Yesterday, today and forever the same Jesus who healed people 2000 years ago can heal people today, the same Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of Pentecost can be poured out on people today. And we see God do tremendous miracles, tremendous signs and wonders.
(05:37):
And because of that, a lot of people get saved and the churches grow. And we found that around the world, especially in the the majority world Africa, Asia, the churches that are growing are the ones that believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. They’re casting out demons, they’re praying for the sick, they’re praying for people to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And, and so there seems to be a transition in the body of Christ that to towards an acknowledgement that we need a fresh move of the Holy Spirit, if we’re really going to fulfill the Great Commission, we need the Holy Spirit. Yeah,
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (06:17):
I think you’re absolutely right, Daniel. And you brought up some good points. You know, Todd Johnson from the Center for Global Christianity at Gordon Conwell he says that there’s approximately 650 million and that data’s a couple years old, but 650 million, what we would term spirit empowered Christians in the world right now. So from from zero at approx, you know, a few handful at Asuza Street in 1906, fast forward a hundred and, you know, 15 years later, and there’s 650 million. So this is the spirit empowered movement within Christianity is one of the fastest growing movements in history. Religious movements in history and what’s happening around the world is explosive. The truth is the formula of the Book of Acts works when you believe that God is breaking in and intervening in people’s lives, and that he can heal, he can deliver, he can set free, that Jesus is who he says he is, and he can do what he says he can do then the Holy Spirit breathes on that.
(07:22):
And God does amazing things. And so that’s why we’re seeing this explosive growth. And the truth is, when you think about the number of people on Earth today, there’s 8 billion plus. We went over the 8 billion number in November, according to the United Nations, 8 billion plus. My dad likes to, to say, if you tried to count to 8 billion starting from the day you were born and never stop, to take a breath, to go to the bathroom, to have anything, to eat, to sleep, you could count for 120 530 years and still not reach 8 billion. Just trying to count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. There’s a lot of people on planet Earth. And the truth is to reach them is gonna require a variety of different strategies. But we believe that the Holy Spirit is creative enough that he’s gonna birth inside of us and birth inside of his church and inside of his people, all of the different ways and ideas and methods that are needed to get the gospel to every person on earth, from the Wall Street millionaire in New York City, to the child who’s living on a trash sheep in Manila, Philippines, Jesus died for each and every one of them.
(08:35):
And we believe God is gonna give us the the ability to reach them with the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:41):
And the work that Jesus did on the cross to bring salvation to all of us is really the, the heartbeat of Amsterdam 2023 and what God is going to do there. And so, let, let’s talk about Amsterdam 2023. What are some of the things that are planned? Who’s coming and why should people do everything they possibly can to get there? Yeah. And to participate? Yeah.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (09:05):
Well it’s gonna be really a who’s who of leaders from all over the body of Christ, not just in the Pentecostal and charismatic stream, but a number of our evangelical brethren are gonna be joining us serving with us the Palau organization, the Billy Graham organization’s gonna be there. Christ for All Nations is gonna be there. Rick Warren is gonna be there. Christine Kane is gonna be there. They’ll be over 150 key leaders from all over the world who will be speaking and sharing in general sessions and in workshops. But all of that’s gonna happen over the first three days of the event when we’re at the Rye Convention Center. But I really believe the heart of the meeting is gonna happen around round tables. We’re gonna have collaborative sessions every day where leaders will gather with people from their region who speak their language and will talk about the themes of the meeting and how they can contextualize that into where they live.
(10:03):
So we’re gonna talk about this vision of reaching every person. What does that look like to re personalize the Great commission? You’ll gather with people around round tables and talk about that. We’re gonna talk about what are new strategies that are emerging, new methods of evangelism, and how can you use those in your context? And then we’re gonna talk about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. You know, I’m a a dad of three teenagers. I don’t understand what my teenagers are saying half the time because they speak a totally different language and operate and think in a totally different way. If we’re gonna reach every person on Earth, then we have to know how to reach Gen Z and Gen Alpha. And so we’re gonna talk about that in these collaborative sessions where you’re meeting with leaders from around the world. Then we’re gonna take those sessions, the input that you give us from those round tables, and we’re gonna compile that and come up with some trends to say, okay, this is what we see the Holy Spirit is doing. This is what the Holy Spirit is saying around these issues. So I think it’s very important if you’re a leader of any capacity that you’re there in the room in Amsterdam, so that you can have some input into this process as we talk about reaching every person on Earth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:17):
Yeah. One of the benefits I think of going is going to be the relationships that are going to come out of this, because you have so many like-minded people coming together in, in one place. The people you’re gonna meet, the, the friendships that are going to develop relationships are the currency of the Kingdom of heaven. Just yesterday, I was talking to a friend from Pakistan, and I’ve done some crusades with him in Pakistan, and he was asking me, you know, why should I come to Amsterdam? What’s, is this just another conference? Cuz he goes to conferences from time to time. I said, no, this is gonna be much more just a, a conference. This is going to be an event. And it it really is something spiritual that happens too. Back in 1983 mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, the Billy Graham organization hosted a big gathering in Amsterdam.
(12:08):
And at that time, they brought thousands of evangelists together from around the world. And in that meeting in 1983, really set the tone for what God has done. And now this big event Amsterdam 2023 is almost to the day, 40 years later from what God did through Billy Graham and is his heart for evangelism. And I remember when I was a young evangelist, I found a big book mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that Billy Graham’s organization had put out with all of the different sessions from some of the, the great evangelists from 40 years ago. And that book really impacted my life as a young evangelist. I was gonna say, man, I wish I could have been there just listening to the heart of all of these great men and women of God talking about God’s heartbeat for the world. And, and so at this Amsterdam event 40 years later, I really feel that this could set the tone for what God is going to do in a new generation.
(13:09):
It’s a new era of evangelism, it’s a new time of, of evangelism. The the heart of God is the same, but the methods are different now. We live in a completely different world. The challenges we face are probably even greater than the challenges that they faced 40 years ago. But I think by coming together and talking and building relationships and hearing about what God has put on different hearts and different organizations, that we’re gonna see an amazing synergy that’s gonna come out of this for especially this next decade leading up to 2033, the 2000 year anniversary of the day of Pentecost.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (13:47):
Yeah. you know, Daniel, you, you, you know the history well, I also had that compendium from the 1983. I got it when I was, I think 22 years old. Someone gave it to me. And I flipped through that over the years many times. It’s a, it’s a great resource. What Graham did in 1983, and then they had another meeting in 86 and another meeting in 2000 was groundbreaking. And I believe it set the direction for the church in the previous generation from those grand meetings really came a lot of the impetus around unreached people groups focusing on the 10 40 window, focusing on unreached people groups. And I personally believe that that was the challenge for my father’s and grandfather’s generation. But for my generation and your generation and the generation of my children, I believe the Holy Spirit is raising the bar.
(14:43):
It’s not enough just to reach the nations of the earth, but I believe God is also interested in reaching each person on earth. That’s why Jesus said in Matthew, go and preach the gospel to everyone. That’s why Paul says to Tim, to Timothy, I want prayers for everyone because God, our savior wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. And so I think what is happening is we live in a day and age when it is possible to get the gospel to every person on earth, but it’s gonna take a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit and it’s gonna take us collaborating together. And so what’s gonna happen, I believe in Amsterdam, is the Holy Spirit is gonna raise the bar. He’s gonna raise the target for our generation, not just every nation or every people group on earth, but let’s get the gospel to every individual on Earth in the next decade.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:40):
And that is going to be an amazing initiative, everyone on Earth. It’s a, it’s impossible in human thinking, but with God all things are possible. Absolutely. And I think if the body of Christ comes together and, and starts thinking, how do we reach everyone on earth, that God will give us the creative ideas to make it happen, and it’s gonna take the entire body of Christ working together, collaborating together, celebrating one another, and the Empower 21 and the Global Evangelist Alliance as, as part of this 10 year effort to reach everyone on earth, we’re going to be targeting entire nations. We’re talking about next year going to El Salvador. Yeah. And reaching every single person in El Salvador. And so I brought this vision to my home Church Victory Church here in Tulsa. And they said, oh, we want to send 120 teenagers from our school to come down to go into the schools to minister to the people in El Salvador. And so the whole purpose of this is to mobilize from the youngest to the oldest, the entire body of Christ to, to go out and to lead people to Jesus.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (16:55):
Yeah. And, and I’m super excited about where I, I see God leading us over the next 10 years. You know, the g is taking great leadership in this process. And, and you know, we could, we could choose a country every quarter and still not get anywhere close to being finished with all the nations on earth over the next 10 years. But I think what the GE is trying to do is to set a catalytic example to say, okay, we as a team are gonna collaborate together and we’re gonna take this nation and we’re gonna say every person in this nation is gonna hear the gospel over the next year. And so I think that’s an amazing example. And what’s gonna happen, I believe as we go through the next decade is God’s gonna touch the hearts of people all over the world, and they’re gonna grab that vision and say, what’s it gonna take for me to get the gospel to every person in my neighborhood, to every person in my city, to every person in my nation, to every person in the places where I live and work and have influence.
(17:58):
And as that happens, we’re gonna see God begin to move. And then I, I also believe there’s gonna be people that are be challenged to say, okay, what does it look like to get the gospel to people who have absolutely no connection to Jesus and no way to know about him. You know, when we’re talking about getting the gospel to every person on earth, the real challenge for us is gonna be China and North India, to be honest. I mean, those are the places where there’s billions of people who have not heard the name of Jesus. And so I think one of the things that’s gonna happen out of Amsterdam is God’s gonna really inspire some creativity in people and put some seeds in people’s heart that are gonna help us get over that hump and help us reach those people with the gospel in an accelerated fashion as we head towards the 2000 year anniversary of of Christ’s sacrifice for us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:47):
So if you are excited about the Great Commission, if you are a leader or a future leader in what God is doing here in the world, I encourage you to go and sign up to come to Amsterdam 2023. The website is Amsterdam 2020 three.com. And I’d also encourage you to check out the global evangelist alliance.com because by joining the, the ge, the Global Evangelist Alliance, you can get connected to all of these big evangelism initiatives that are going to be taking place over the next decade. There’s some great resources, therefore, evangelist, we’ve got an Evangelism masterclass with many of the greatest evangelists that are live today teaching on evangelism and, and equipping people on how to witness how to share their faith both to one-on-one and to the masses of people. And then if you wanna find out more about Empower 21, go to empower 20 one.com and you can find out more about what the Holy Spirit is doing around the world.
(19:55):
But the main thing I’d encourage you to do right now, go to Amsterdam 2023 and Amsterdam 2020 three.com and sign up to come to this amazing event that’s gonna take place in Amsterdam, June 21st, 22nd, 23rd, and 24th of 2023. It’s coming up really quickly and, and so, but there’s still time for you to get your plane tickets, to get some hotels over there. Come to this massive gathering of great commission believers because we need you at the table. We need your ideas, we need your contribution to the discussion of what God is going to take place, and I think it will do something significant in your life.
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (20:39):
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you, Daniel for for allowing me to share today. And if you’re listening to the podcast, make sure that you, you find me at Amsterdam 2023 and say hello. It’s gonna be an amazing gathering of, of people who are on fire for Jesus and excited about reaching every person on earth with the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:01):
Ashley Wilson, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism
Ashley Wilson | Empowered21 (21:04):
Podcast. Thank you, Daniel.
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Buddy Bell | How to Build the Helps Ministry in Your Church
Buddy Bell loves being the “Pastor’s Friend.” He is the world’s foremost expert on helping churches to build their ministry of helps. His passion is to activate the body of Christ to serve. If you need help training your ushers, greeters, or your nursery workers, Buddy Bell is the minister to call.
Learn more about Buddy Bell’s Ministry: https://mohi.org/
Buy Buddy Bell’s Book on the Ministry of Helps:
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Dr. Buddy Bell loves being the pastor’s friend. He is the world’s foremost expert on helping churches to build their ministry, of helps. His passion is to activate the body of Christ to serve. If you need help training your ushers, your greeters, or your nursery workers, Buddy Bell is the minister to call.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:39):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now, here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. And today I have a great friend with me, Dr. Buddy Bell. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Buddy Bell (01:19):
Good to be here, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:20):
Well, you and I have been friends for quite a while now. And the thing that I love about your ministry is that you love helping churches help people. Amen. And building the helps ministry. So tell me, how did you get started in helping churches build their helps ministry?
Buddy Bell (01:42):
Well, I think the big thing was realizing that I was in the ministry of helps. You know, my wife and I were involved in church and, and back then, no one had ever heard of the Ministry of Helps. And we were you know, people would say we were strange, we were weird, we were different. They told us, you know, God broke the mold when he made us. And I remember one day in church on Sunday morning, my pastor at that time opened up the first Corinthians chapter 12 verse 28. And he began to read it. It says, in God has set some in the church. And I thought, well, you know, that’s where I want to be. I want to be in church. I just don’t want to go to church. And it goes on. It says, first apostles, secondary prophets.
(02:31):
Thirdly, teachers after that miracles, then gifts of healings. And then he said, helps. And he stopped. And for 60 seconds, he expounded on the ministry of helps. And I sat there in church with tears in my eyes, and I said to myself, you know, buddy, you’re not weird. You’re not strange. You’re not different. And God didn’t break the mold when he made you, but the mold is still in the Bible. And I found my place that day in church. I was in the ministry of helps. And and so that began to, you know, develop on the inside of me. I be begin to s you know, seek more information on the ministry of helps. And because, you know, like one Mr said to me, you know, people want to see their place in the Bible. You know, am I on the team or am I just sitting in the grandstand watching the game?
(03:33):
People want to be in the game. You know, am I really important? You know, my, my greatest reward, I guess traveling and teaching on the ministry of helps is, and I’ll never forget her, this nursery worker walked up to me and she had tears running down her cheeks. And she, she said, you know, brother Bell, I really didn’t thank God, knew I was back there in their nursery. And I’ll never forget her. And, you know, and, and people think that, well, you know, I, I just work in the nursery, or I’m just an usher, or I’m just a, a greeter, or I, I just do what Pastor once done. And they don’t realize how valuable and how important they are. I mean, if it wasn’t important, then why did God, that created the heavens in the Earth set into the church helps. You know, there, there’s a rumor going around the world today that, that Buddy Bell made up this ministry of helps.
(04:32):
I didn’t make it up. I read my Bible, you know, and I, and I see I have a part in the body of Christ. I’m valuable. I’m important, you know the definition. Now, if I get preaching, we’re gonna take an offering <laugh>. Okay? But the definition for the ministry of helps is the Greek definition. It’s as one of the administrations in the local church by way of rendering assistance, or especially of help minister to the weak and the needy. So if you’re rendering assistance in any way in the church, if you’re giving help to the weak and the needy, you’re operating in this supernatural ministry. The ministry of helps. Now, listen to me, it’s a ministry as just as valid, just as anointed as if God had asked you to be a prophet. I think I heard an amen out there. Amen. Maybe a couple amens out there.
(05:25):
Amen. Why? Because God is not a respecter. We’re in this thing together. You know, I thank God for prophets, but also thank God for nursing workers and ushers and greeters. You know, I’ve <laugh>. I’ve had people, when I get done ministering on helps will take me off to the side. I don’t know how many times this happened. And they say, now, brother, buddy, I want to ask you a question, but I want you to be honest with me. Like I’ve been lying to ’em the whole time. You know? And they, but I want you to be honest. Nobody’s around, you know, but you’re really not that excited about nursery workers, are you? I say, excuse me, I’m gonna back up. The wrath of God is coming in here. You know? And, and I see it on people’s faces when I’m teaching on the ministry of helps. You know, do, do, do you really believe that brother buddy? Well, let, let me help you out. When I look at a nursery worker, I don’t see a nursery worker. I see Jesus. When I look at an usher, I don’t see an usher. I see Jesus. When I look at a prophet, I don’t see a prophet. I see Jesus. And that’s why I can be excited about every member and every part of the body. Cause I’m excited about Jesus. Amen. All right.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:41):
Amen. Amen. Let you do something. Well, I think your perspective is so valuable, cuz sometimes when people think about being in ministry, the picture that comes to mind is the fivefold ministry gifts. You got the apostle, the prophet, the evangelist, the pastor, the teacher, and they envision a platform ministry where someone’s up on the platform. And, and a lot of people are actually scared to do public speaking or get on a platform. They, so they say to themselves, oh, I could never be in ministry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But what you’re saying is that you can totally be in ministry by finding a place to serve in the house of God. Amen. And by helping out with what needs to be done, because the pastor is not the only one called to serve the Lord. Every single believer can find a place to help in the body of Christ. Amen. Would you say that’s
Buddy Bell (07:35):
True? Daniel? You used the word just a moment ago that I don’t use. Okay. And because it’s a word that causes division within the body, and that word is fivefold. I don’t believe in the fivefold. Okay. You can’t find it in the Bible, that word. You know? And so I tell people, I’m in the sevenfold now I’ve got you on that one. Cause seven is God’s number and what’s the other two helps in governments. But then that don’t leave anybody out. Okay. And so, I, I I don’t use that word fivefold. Okay. And because when you said it, you know, there was a division there, you had a group that was up on the platform, and then the rest of of us over here, you know, we all want, we’re all, we’re all in this together, you know? And so you know, I, I just don’t use that word, <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:29):
All right. Well, I will amend my vocabulary. Yeah. And, and I actually agree with you. I, I think helps is a, an extremely valuable ministry in the church. All right? So let’s say you, you go into a church, right? And you’re, you’re helping their, helps ministry, challenging people to serve the Lord with excellence. I’ve heard you talk some about King Solomon and the excellence that his helpers serve the Lord with. Talk. Talk to us a little bit about that.
Buddy Bell (09:00):
Yeah. When the Queen of Sheba and from Ethiopia visited her, him, you know I point out the things that she noticed, okay? And you know, a lot of, a lot of times we don’t realize when people walk into the church that they see things and they’re moved by what they see. Okay? She was moved by what she saw. She saw the food the, the, the meat on the table. She saw her, the building. She saw the ministers and their apparel, the cup bears and their apparel, the way he carried himself in, up into the house with the Lord. You know, 85% of communication is done through body expression. You know, you ever had anybody ask you, Hey, what’s wrong? And they go, well nothing. Well, you need to tell your face cuz your face is telling everybody that there’s something wrong. You know? And so, you know, I, I talk about ushers, that they affect people’s giving by the way. They, they come down the aisle with the buckets. You know some of ’em look like they’re in a funeral. You know,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:08):
If an usher is me, no one wants to put anything in that offering bucket right here. Throw, put your, put your offering in there.
Buddy Bell (10:15):
Right? And, and, and some do that, some think, well, maybe we shouldn’t be taking an offering right now. They don’t have to say nothing. You can see it, you know, when a pastor has to coax them to come down for the offering, okay, we’re, we’re gonna have an offering here. Okay. You know, God loves a cheerful giver, a hilarious giver. Gonna need some ushers ushers Fred come on down, Fred. Come on, Fred. You, you can help out. You know? And, and, and like, we’re trying to coax them in, into giving, okay? When they ought to come down for smile on their face. Well, Daniel, how come they don’t smile when they come down? I’ll tell you why. They’re not givers themselves. I wouldn’t have a non-GI person as an usher in the church. A actually, I wouldn’t have a non tither as an usher.
(11:04):
What, what, what an honor to stand up and say, now we’re getting ready to take your offering. And these people that are serving as ushers, they’re all tithers in the church. Wow. You know, had, have one usher said to me, well, you better not look at the, at the giving records, you know, if I’m a Tyler or not. I said, listen, sheep are not dumb. I said, we don’t need to look at the records to see if you’re a ti or not. We have our ways of finding out, you know, when we’re down at, I help afterwards, you know, we’ll bring up tithing and notice how quick you change the subject.
(11:40):
So we, we, we don’t need to look at the books. We’re all in this together. We all have a part. We’re all, we’re all valuable. We’re all important. The ushers, the greeters. I’ve seen people get at the door when they walked in. I saw this one gentleman when the greeter reached out to grab him, and he fell on his knees. He said, my God, I need Jesus. Well, doesn’t he know he is gotta wait till the end of the service? That’s when we give the altar calls at the end. You know, first church I was involved in our attitude in the ministry of helps us. We’re going to get everybody saved. Everybody healed. Everybody set free before church. And if we miss any em, pastor can pick, pick him up at the end. But in a lot of churches is well, they see how many pastor can pick up at the end.
(12:29):
You know, where we, you know, were, we were, we were evangelizing at the door and the nursery, you know I tell a story, you’re gonna get me going on the stories here. A mother came to the nursery and worker and said I just wanna know something. What did you do to my baby last Sunday? I, I, I, when I picked up my, my baby and I took her home and I put her in the, in her bed, she immediately went to sleep. She never goes immediately to sleep. What did you do to my baby? And so the, the nursery worker had an opportunity to share Jesus with her. She went out front at, in the service, and at the end, she raised her hand and got saved. Now, was it the sermon or was it the, the nursery worker that realized, this is not a babysitting service back here, but this is a ministry. And she ministered to that mother that morning, and that’s why she got saved.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:31):
Yeah. When you think about a new visitor who comes to a church, Uhhuh, <affirmative>, he drives into the parking lot. He sees the parking lot attendant. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> helps him park his car. Then he walks in the front door, there’s a greeter there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then an usher helps the person to find a seat. Maybe if they have kids, they go drop their kids off at the nursery or mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in the children’s ministry. So they’re looking around trying to figure out where they’re supposed to take their kids. Yeah. Finally, they, they get in, they’re the, the usher helps them find a seat. And people are there and, and say, Hey, that’s my seat. I sat in that pew every Sunday. What are you doing sitting in my seat? Right? But, and then somebody greets the crowd, and then you have the praise and worship team get up, and then maybe someone receives the offering. And you can be 30, 40 minutes into the church service before they ever see the pastor, hear the pastor. And probably by that time, they’ve already decided whether they like the church or not, whether that would be the type of church that they would want to be a member at.
Buddy Bell (14:35):
Right. The experts say that first time visitors will determine within the first six to seven minutes if they’re going to return or not to that church. And who do they meet in the first six or seven minutes?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:49):
Usually not the pastor. He’s back there in the, the green room on his face before God praying, probably. Yeah.
Buddy Bell (14:56):
They meet, they meet the parking lot attendant who park it over here. Stay between the lines. Grab your kids’ hands. We need speed bumps out here, nursery, I don’t know where the nursery’s at. Find somebody’s got a baby and follow them. And then they walk in and they see the greeter, you know shake hands with the people in front of ’em there and hug them. But when they walk to the door, the, the greeter just happened to turn and not shake their hand or greet them, you know? And then they go on down the hall and they go to the nursery after they find it, you know? And the nursery worker looks at him and said, oh, no. And not another one. Man, I need some help back here. I hope you brought some clean diapers. I mean, you know, some people bring their babies in here and they don’t bring extra diapers, and they expect us to supply them extra diapers.
(15:48):
And then they, they leave there and they, they go down to the, the youth room. And the youth leader comes out and said, oh, you’re new. Well let me explain some things that go on down here in the youth ministry. We cast out devils down here, and if your little boy’s got a devil, we will cast it outta him. And then they come on down the hall and, and they walk into the sanctuary. Now I’m talking about typical churches. Okay? And they walk in the sanctuary, and the ushers and the elders are holding up the back wall, you know, for six days. And six nights. The back wall stands by itself, but it becomes a seventh day. It takes all the ushers and all the elders to hold up the back wall, you know? And, and they just say, well, just, just find a chair somewhere, you know? And so they go, they, they sit down, you know? And and then they watch the, the worship team and the, and the musicians. They’re up there arguing which song they’re gonna sing. Now, would you go back to that church? Would you go back to that church?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:52):
Not that church. No. Actually, I probably preached to that church one time.
Buddy Bell (16:56):
<Laugh> <laugh>. I’ve been in a lot of those churches. You know, I, I have, I’ve been in a lot of those churches. But what if, what if they walk in or drive into the parking lot and, and the parking lot attendance out there. He’s got a smile on his face. He welcomes them to the church, you know, and it says, Hey, you know, the door is right over here. You know, the greeters are at there. They’ll help you if you got questions. They’ll show you where all, where your children need to go. And the greeters there got a smile on their face, you know, they find out they’re new. See, greeters should be walking information booths, you know. So they take that family and they take them down to the nursery. They introduce ’em to the nursery worker and let ’em know that they’re new here.
(17:41):
You know? Then they take ’em down to Children’s Church and they let ’em know that they’re new. And then they take ’em up to the sanctuary and tell the usher, these, these people are new. Well, knowing that the usher’s gonna make sure that they have a real good seed up front so they can see everything, hear everything that God wants for them to hear, you know, tells ’em more about the church, tells ’em to get excited. You know, our pastor’s been into Word, he is been teaching this series. I mean, it’s really, the people are really excited. Now, you tell me you’re gonna come back to that church.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:14):
That sounds like a great church to go to.
Buddy Bell (18:16):
And there are churches like that. Yeah. There are churches that like that. And and so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:21):
And so when you go into a church and they’ve asked you to, to help their ushers, help their greeters, what are some of the things that you say to them to, to help them to be the very best ushers and greeters and ministers that they can be?
Buddy Bell (18:40):
Well, the most important thing, again, is to show them and teach them about the Ministry of Alps. Once, you know, it’s hard to teach someone something if they don’t realize how important it is. And they are okay. And so, you know, the, the f the very first thing is to teach them, you know, the importance of the ministry of helps. But also, you know, I’m not just there for people that are serving, but the leaders need to understand it. Okay? People never go beyond their leadership. However, the leadership is in the church. That’s the way the people will be. You know, a a lot of times it, it’s not the people’s fault, you know? Pastor said, well, I can’t get anybody involved. Well, my first question is let me talk to your leaders. Do they believe in the ministry of Hels?
(19:42):
You know, do they realize how valuable the people are? You know, that their ministry is a, is a supernatural ministry. Do they understand that? You know, and so, I, I always say, let me talk to your leaders. You know, let me, let me minister to your leaders and show to them how valuable the ministry of helps is, and that it’s an important ministry. You know? And they need to get that across, you know, <laugh>, you I had a a minister years ago when I was young. And he asked me, he said, brother Bell, you ever listen to yourself preach? I said, oh, no, no, no, no. He says, you need to listen to yourself. Preach. There’s two attitudes in preaching. There’s a want to attitude and a half, two attitude. He says, we all know we have to. He said, but Brother Bell, what’s missing in people is the want to, you know, we tell ’em, you have to be saved.
(20:44):
You have to, you know receive Holy Spirit. You, you have to, you have to. You have to. When we ought be saying to, no, you want to get saved, you want Jesus in your life. You want to serve God, not you have to serve God. You know? No. You want to serve God. You want to be every, everything that God wants you to be. You wanna do all that God wants you to do. You know? And, and that’s what’s missing before a lot of people. And so, you know, that’s one of my main goals when I go into a church, you know, is put the want to back into people because they, all they’ve been hearing is the have to, you know, when I go to a church, I guarantee a pastor. I guarantee him that 10% of the people that are in front of me will step out and want to serve God that have never served God before.
(21:39):
I guarantee it. It happens everywhere I go. If there’s a thousand people in front of me, over a hundred will come forward. That’ll want to serve God. People want to serve God. And you’ll never talk me out of this. Every Christian, every Christian, deep in their heart desires to serve God, but they’ve never been told, you know, that cleaning the church being a greer, being an usher, going on an evangelism trip with Daniel King Ministries, you know, and carrying your bags, you know, helping to set up the, the music the sound, you know, at, at your meetings. It’s a ministry. It’s a ministry. It’s just as important as you standing up there and ministering the gospel of those people. Because if you had to go and do everything that you just did, that happened in your trip in Ethiopia, y you wouldn’t have done it.
(22:37):
You, you, you couldn’t have done it. Okay? But you had a lot of people around you, a lot of people doing other things, you know, and they weren’t in front of the people. Okay? But they’re valuable, and they’re important, you know, every member, every part of the body, you know, no matter where it is, okay? You know <laugh>, if I was to reach inside of you right now and pull out a part of you and showed it to you, you know how you would react? You would react. Like some people, some people react when they see people that walk in the church. Oh, no, what’s that? You know, where did that come from? But if I told you it came from you, what would be your first response?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:22):
I need that.
Buddy Bell (23:23):
Right. Put it back. Put that
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:25):
Liver back. I need that
Buddy Bell (23:26):
Liver. Yeah. You didn’t ask. Yeah, but you didn’t ask me what it was. You didn’t ask me how important it was. You didn’t ask me how it helped other parts of my body. But when you found out that it was part of you, all you knew was it must be there for a reason. It must be there for a purpose. And that’s the way everybody is in church. You’re there for a reason. You’re there for a purpose. Maybe I don’t understand you. Okay? I don’t realize right now how important you are, but you’re part of the body, and I need every part of the body.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:03):
Yeah. When we were just in Ethiopia, one of the most important team members we had was, was someone who was just taking pictures. Yeah. Because without those pictures, you can’t tell the story back home of everything that, that God did. And so I had a, a wonderful man of God who came and, and he was just servant taking pictures and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you’d never taken pictures before. But I put a camera in his hands, I think God can use you. And he, he captured some good ones. And then thinking about Ethiopia, they traced their spiritual heritage back to the Queen of Sheba. Yeah. And so, the, the fact that to this day in Ethiopia, there are people that credit their spiritual heritage all the way back to the impression that the Queen of Sheba had with the, the people that attended to King Solomon. It shows the importance of the ministry of helps.
Buddy Bell (24:55):
Yeah. When I was my teaching that I do called winning first time visitors, and I talk about the Queen of Sheba and everything that she noticed, you know, and while she was there, there was a, a young lady that was sitting on the front row. I was in San Francisco, and she was really into this teaching. I, she was saying, Hey man, she was rocking back and forth in her chair, you know? And so when I got done, she walks up to me and she says, brother, buddy I don’t know if you noticed this, but I was really into your teaching day. I said, well, yeah, it was pretty noticeable. She says, you know why I said, no, why I am from Ethiopia. And the Queen Shiba was responsible for bringing the teachings of God to our country. And that’s why I got all excited about that. Amen. But I, I, I teach that. I’ll go into a church to show everybody just how valuable and how important they are. Let me let’s see if we can find it here somewhere in my Bible.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:01):
I like your Bible. It’s full of marks all over the place. You know what they say? Dirty Bible, clean living, clean bible, dirty living. Yeah.
Buddy Bell (26:09):
But I, I wanna, it’s falling apart. And I, I’m wanting to go get a new Bible and but it’s all marked up, you know? And you know, so I don’t know what I’m gonna do. But you know, one of the things that you know, I tell people this now. I, I say this, curiosity is the number one evangelism tool in a local church. People think that they’ve got, you know, people say, well, you know, I, I, I can’t get people to come to church. Well, you just told me something. You don’t talk about your church outside of the four walls. I said, you know, you don’t have to preach the people to get ’em to come to church. You don’t have to quote scripture. You don’t have to act spiritual around. Just talk about your church. Talk about what’s going on, what’s God is doing in your church.
(27:05):
Cause sooner or later, their curiosity is going to peak. Okay? And, and what’s go, what happens to ’em is the same thing that happened to the Queen of Sheba. She says, how be it, I believe not their words, until I came and my eyes had seen it. And behold, the one half of the greatness of thou wisdom was not told me for the exceeded the fame that I had heard. So somebody was talking outside of the four walls, you know, and she’ll, she, she said, well, I just got to go see it with my own eyes. But there was something else that she experienced, okay, while she was there that she would not have experienced if she hadn’t went. She says, happy are thy. Amen. And happy are these I servants with stand continually before the they hear thy wisdom. The spirit of the place touched her, even though she saw all these different things.
(28:04):
Okay? It was the spirit that was, everybody was happy. And then she said, blessed be the Lord I God. Now I tell people she got saved. Now I know nobody can get saved in the Old Testament, but it’s a type in the shadow of the new. She said, there is a God. Now, I don’t believe an unsafe person should have to go to church five or six times to realize that there is a God. They can realize it in their very first visit, just like the Queen of Sheah. And then she makes his statement, this confession. She says, blessed be the Lord thy God, which delight indeed set the only throne to be king for the Lord thy God, because I God, love Israel to establish them forever. Therefore, many king over them do judgment and justice. What a statement. From a first time visitor, there is a God, you’re a man of God. This is the house of God. God’s hand is upon you in her first visit. And I’ve seen that happen with other people that, that it just, when they walked in and just realized there is a God. But what would happen if they had to go through that parking lot, attendant that was grumpy, the greeter that didn’t greet them, the nursery worker that told ’em off the, the usher looked like, looked at him like, what are you doing here?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:31):
You think the usher that didn’t us.
Buddy Bell (29:33):
Yeah. Right. You’d think they, that, that there is a God in Israel. And then she writes a check for 130 million and dropped it in the bucket. I tell churches, you need money. There’s no telling how many Queen of Shebas have walked into your church, could have wrote you one check and paid for everything. But they thought, you know, it’s kinda like this. I asked people that, that invest in stock. Do you just ran randomly pick a stock and invest in it? No. You, you, you find out about that company and if you’re gonna invest a lot of money, you go and you visit that, that company, you want to meet the employees. You want to meet the, the, the up in the office area, you know, the executives. Cause you’re getting ready to put a bunch of money into that. Well, it’s the same way in church. Some people wonder why people aren’t giving well. Cause they, this don’t look like a good company to invest in.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:38):
Yeah.
Buddy Bell (30:39):
Now you got me preaching
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:40):
<Laugh>. Well, you’ve written some great books on the ministry of helps on ushering, on greeting, just different ways to, to help churches with the, the helps ministry. And on your website you also have some online courses that can help train churches in these different areas. They could sit all their ushers and greeters down and they could go through some of your material. And you’ve also traveled and spoken at over 3000 churches, which is an amazing statistic. Yeah. Helping a lot of different churches from every different type of denomination. So if someone wants to find out more about you, they want to buy one of your books, go through one of your courses, or maybe even invite you to come to their church. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what is your website that they can find out more information about you? Well,
Buddy Bell (31:34):
They can number one, they could type in Buddy Bell in any search engine. Okay. It’ll come up.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:41):
You know, I did that earlier. Some baseball player came
Buddy Bell (31:44):
Up. Yeah. Me and the baseball player. Yeah. People always ask me, are you Buddy Bell, the baseball player? I said, no, gimme a dollar. You know, I tell everybody, you gotta gimme a dollar. If you think I’m Buddy Bell, the baseball player, and he has four daughters and I have four daughters. You know, I, I wonder if people ever ask him, are you Buddy Bell, the preacher? You know, but
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:02):
Yeah. So type in Buddy Bell, the ministry of Helps and you’ll come
Buddy Bell (32:07):
Right up. Yeah, you can do that. Yeah. Or go to mo i.org that stands for Ministry of Helps international.org or Buddy Bell Ministries. Okay. And you know, I went 21 years straight every weekend for 21 years. Wow. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:26):
That’s
Buddy Bell (32:27):
Amazing. I’ve never written a letter. I’ve never called a pastor cold Turkey and asked for a meeting. Never. And they still keep coming in. You know, Fred Price said something one time at, at Bible’s. He says, you know, if you’ve got a word from God, God will open the doors. I remember sitting there thinking, oh, come on now, how they gonna know unless I hound them on the phone? You know? And, but it’s true. I’ve got the, one of the littlest words in the Bible, and it’s opened over 3000 doors around the world. We’ve been in 29 countries. And right now I met a gentleman, oh, about 30 years ago the International School of Ministry, Baron Gland. Today, every year he was telling me between two to 300,000 people around the world will hear my teachings on the ministry of helps in 150 nations in over 80 different languages.
(33:28):
They hear the teaching on the ministry of helps. And and so I remember before the internet, the Lord spoke to me and said, you know, you’re gonna be on the staff of thousands of churches around the world. And I thought, well, you know, that’s gonna take a lot of money to do that. You know, but one day I get a phone call from Baron Gland, and I’ve never met, met him before. He says, I’m in Tulsa, I like to take you to lunch. I thought, Hey, free lunch, I’ll go. And he says, I, I’m setting up these Bible schools in local churches. And he says, I like to use some of your your teachings that was on VHS tapes. And I said, sure. And today it’s in a, they’re in 150 nations around the world. Wow. 80 different languages. And so yeah, we have a book, the books we also have ’em in Spanish we’re working on French coming out because we have 10 teachings that come in, what we call the School of Helps.
(34:41):
School helps, has 10 teachings 10 30 minute teachings with notes and quizzes and discussion questions. That’s in English. It’s in Spanish. And just a few weeks ago they converted it into French. Wow. And and so get ahold of us. Yes, I I love traveling. I love coming in the churches. Doesn’t matter what size they are. I’ve been in churches that run 30,000 and I just came from a church that had 15 on Sunday morning. Doesn’t matter. You know I love it, Daniel. I love what I do. I love it. And I love to see people light up and realize, you know, if Jesus comes back and I’m in the nursery, he’s gonna let me in. If Jesus comes back and I’m an, I’m out in the parking lot, he’s gonna let me in. Cause we’re all valuable.
(35:42):
We’re all important. And, and I can’t leave without doing this. So let me give you one more definition. This was, this is becoming pretty famous around the world. It’s by a man by the name of God Bay. He was a Pentecostal Holiness preacher back in the 18 hundreds. And he wrote a commentary on the New Testament. And this is how he defines the ministry of helps. He starts off with the word o h o. It’s not, oh, that’s how simp some people respond to rendering assistance. But he’s excited. He starts off, oh, the infinite value of the humble gospel helpers. Thousands of people have no gifts as leaders are number one helpers. How Grand revival work moves along When, when Red the heart platoons a fire baptize helpers crowd around God’s heroic leaders of the embattled hosts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:41):
Woo. That’s powerful
Buddy Bell (36:43):
<Laugh>. What a definition for a dirty diaper changer. Amen. <laugh>, what a definition for an usher. What a definition for those who serve in our outreaches outside of the church for those who clean the church. Why? Cause we’re in this together.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:59):
Amen. Amen. Well, Dr. Buddy Bell, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Ah-Huh. I love your ministry and just love your heart for helping pastors and helping build up the helps ministry in the church. God bless you.
Buddy Bell (37:14):
Amen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (37:15):
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Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:18):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review By giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (39:39):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Paul Fraser | Multiplying Churches in Canada
Paul Fraser is in charge of Championing, Training, and Resourcing Disciple-Makers for the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC). He leads the Multiply Network which mentors and trains church planters across Canada. Their goal is that every Canadian will have an access point to the gospel. Today we talk about what God is doing in the nation of Canada!
Questions:
How are you helping churches to multiply?
What church growth strategies are working in Canada right now?
What trends does the PAOC see happening right now in your network of churches?
What do see are the challenges and opportunities for reaching people for Jesus in the Canadian context?
Learn More About the Multiply Network: https://paocmultiply.com/
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Paul Frazier is in charge of championing training and resourcing disciple makers for the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC). He leads the Multiply Network, which mentors and trains church planters across Canada. Their goal is that every Canadian will have an access point to the gospel. Today we talk about what God is doing in the nation of Canada.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:41):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:05):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus Today. I have a very special guest with me, Paul Frazier. Thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Paul Fraser (01:19):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
All right, well let’s start at the beginning. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Paul Fraser (01:29):
Yeah, so been in ministry now 25 years. Went to Bible college right outta high school and got married early. Went right into ministry, pastor in a local church, worked at a Christian school for a bit as a campus pastor. Ended up working at a regional district office as the district youth director and eventually kind of not aged out, but then kind of moved on to running our church, planting for our district, among other things. And now I work at the P A U C national Office as the National Church Multiplication Coordinator, which is the sister organization to Assemblies of God, us, and get an opportunity to work with some of the best leaders pioneering, entrepreneurial coming from all over the world to help us reach people in Canada through church planting. So it’s, it’s a great job. Love doing it. Lots of travel, get to meet some great people. So just really enjoying this season of ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
Yeah, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, the P A O C is just a great organization. About how many churches are in the P O P O A C right now?
Paul Fraser (02:42):
Yeah, so we would, we would have about somewhere around 1100 or maybe, you know, 10 80 to 1100, somewhere in there of self-governing churches at probably another 150, 130, somewhere in there. We’re, we’re somewhere around 1200 altogether with satellite campuses, self-governing churches, and right across Canada. And we have eight districts. And so, yeah, it’s really, it’s, we’ve had a great, we, we just turned a hundred years old in 2019 and you know, had tremendous growth for the last 20 years or so. Just been plateauing, incrementally growing. So within the last 10 years we’ve had a really big push on church planting and just seeing some really fun, great results from that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:33):
And so you’re leading the multiply network and I really like what it says on your website that your goal is that every Canadian would have a, an access point to the gospel. And so talk to me a little bit about kinda what God is doing in Canada, what opportunities you see, and then what challenges the church in Canada is facing right now.
Paul Fraser (03:59):
Yeah, great, great questions and thanks for referencing that cuz that is, that is our big tagline. If, if you don’t have a burden for the lost, you shouldn’t be planting a church. Like we’re not just looking to have more services for church people. There has to be a real sense of Yeah, like your church, your people, your social media, your everything could be an access point to the gospel for people to find Jesus, to have that life transforming love affect their life. And we’re in a interesting I don’t know where you’re listening from in the world today, cause I know these podcasts, the world just made is so much smaller. But in Canada, we, you know, we’ve lived in a post kind of Christian age for you know, I don’t know, maybe 20, 30 years. It depends who you, depends who you ask.
(04:51):
And so it’s great because on the one hand, people don’t have a lot of history of like, well, you know, I got hurt by church cuz I, you know, I did this and that. But it’s like, there’s a real sense of like curiosity. You know, there was a time in Canada probably just like the US where 90% of Canadians went to church. Of course that was the early 19 hundreds and everyone went to church on Sunday. It was kind of cultural and everyone did that. And now, you know, right around that 10% or a little less in Canada. So we really see a need for fresh expressions, new ways to reach people far from God and and to work with younger leaders who have a different call maybe than what I had and what my parents had and are like, are being creative and, and getting excited about trying new things and experimenting.
(05:42):
And so I’m really grateful that I get to be a part with them, provide maybe the banks of the river <laugh>, you know, for some of these young leaders that wanna do something like, hey, let’s, let’s, let’s do that, but let’s also have some structure. Let’s also have some of this. And so the opportunities here are, I actually think people are open to spirituality. There’s an openness to prayer, there’s an openness to hearing what you believe. And so, you know, used to be, you know, evangelism was, you know, very different. It was, you know, how I kind of described it in Canada was, you know, invite people to church. The pastor invites them to Jesus. And if we’re on the ball, we invite them into our life. And that’s, that can still work, that there’s nothing wrong with that. But I think maybe a more effective model is maybe invite them into your life.
(06:38):
You invite them to Jesus. And then church makes so much more sense. Like when I ch mean church, I mean the Sunday gathering. So I just think there’s an opportunity for people every day living on mission, you know, reading the great commission as, as you go about your day make disciples. And so there’s a lot of like yeah. So there’s a lot of opportunity out there. And I would say the obstacles are probably the same. Most places that there’s a hardness of heart scriptures tell us that the God of this world is blinded the eyes of man, and so they just can’t see. And so we, so we bump into those things. There’s an apathy at times within our church culture, perhaps that’s a bit more consumer, less about cause. And so, you know, I get concerned about that. I get concerned about when people think all I need to do to be a Christian is attend church regularly, give and volunteer, and then I’m fulfilling, you know, my role. And I just think, no, Jesus, Jesus is also concerned about some other things about you living on mission every day, 24 7. He’s Lord all the time. So I think we bump into the same obstacles. I mean, we could talk culturally even from this, even though Canada and the US are right next to each other, there’s some significant change, you know, differences in thinking there. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:59):
What are, what,
Paul Fraser (08:00):
What do you say?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:00):
But I would say see are some of the differences between the United States and Canada as far as church culture and, and, and reaching out to people. I, I’m, I’m very interested in this because I, I’ve actually been praying a lot for Canada. My wife is Canadian. She grew up in Morville, small town right outside of the Edmonton area.
Paul Fraser (08:23):
I know where that is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:23):
And yeah so I met her in the middle of Africa. She was a missionary girl sent out from Canada. And so God brought us together. And since I’m married to a Canadian now our ministry is is an official charity in Canada, king Ministries Canada. And, and so every year we go up to visit her family up in Morville. And I, I usually preach at different churches in, in different parts of Alberta and in other parts of Canada. So I’ve really been praying for Canada. I’ve been praying for revival to come to Canada. But as an American, you know, it’s, it’s easy to be perceived as being too pushy. I think Americans tend to be more pushy than Canadians and Canadians. They don’t like that. And so what are, what do you see are some of the differences between America and in Canada?
Paul Fraser (09:16):
Yeah, like it, we have a big, like a big value on individuality, you know, so we would, and I don’t know if this is true anymore, but when I grew up, you know, going to high school, it was kind of like Canada was this multicultural individualistic, you can, you can be whatever you need to be, however you need to be. But in the US it was, and so we called that, you know, the multiculturalism of Canada. And then a bit of a, and of course in the US this has changed significantly since I’ve been to high school. But just kind of that melty pot where it’s like, no, if you moved to the US you’re American. But in Canada you would be like, you know, African Canadian or you know, you’re from, you’re, you’re, you’re from Spain, but you’re also Canadian. But so there’s, there’s a sense of individuality.
(10:06):
So we get offended easy. So that’s why we get, sometimes when people get, we perceive as pushy, it’s like, whoa, hey, can’t we all just get along here? And it’s like, so I find the directness of like, at least in churches being d it’s easier to be direct. I find it’s easier to have conversations with people in the us I think it’s like, honestly, when I travel, I was down for conferences twice this year already. And just sitting down at tables talking with people, it’s just like, wow. Like, they’re just so easy. And because we’re individualistic, we feel like we don’t wanna talk to people about our personal lives or faith and we don’t wanna offend. That’s like, like the cardinal sin of being. And so if you offend, you always say, you know, I’m sorry there’s a, you know, we always get Canadians like just, they’re so apologetic because we’re always offended it. So I think we, I’m
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:00):
Sorry for being sorry so much <laugh>. I’m sorry for being so
Paul Fraser (11:03):
Yeah, like, I’m sorry for being sorry. And I’m sorry that it offended you and all of those things. And, but when it comes to church planting we’re one-tenth the size of the US And so when sometimes the books get written from a US perspective saying, oh, your launch team needs to be this many people and you should have this many people on Sunday. And you know, this is how fast. And you hear the stories of like, yeah, we started in our garage and we grew to 500, you know, in six months. And those stories happen because the population density is, is different. There I think there’s a bit more openness maybe to, to coming to a Sunday gathering where there’d be less in Canada. And we just find like a 500 person church in Canada is like bordering on large. Like if you’re 500 person, you’re so times 10, that’s a 5,000 person church Yeah.
(11:55):
In the us. And so I think we always feel a little like, like, you know, just we’re the little brother for sure in that. And so we kind of resist some of the, you know, US strategies for church planning cuz they just don’t jive the same. So I think we grow a little bit more organically in our thinking and we’re less like big box store structure. I think we’re a little bit more agile, we’re able to explore things a little bit different. Of course those are huge generalizations and, but that would just be some of my takes as I go to church planning conferences and leadership and different things like that as it relates to church world. But, and send some of the cultural differences there as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:37):
Yeah. So in the Canadian context, what are you doing to help churches to multiply and grow?
Paul Fraser (12:49):
Yeah, so obviously sharing the vision of church multiplication the opportunity for us to reach people far from God, I, I try to remind a church planter as they’re like trying to figure out banking and trying to figure out structures and finances and all these things and teams. And I try to remind them like, Hey, picture that first person that gets saved on a Sunday. Or, you know, you know, someone says from your, your core team, they got like picture that. And so keeping the vision of why we’re doing it is really important when a church planter or somebody, and again, I think church planting is one of the most effective ways in North America to reach people far from God. I think there’s a lot of status that would support that. Even the eyeball test for me as I go around different churches and compare size of church and look at their stats year over year to an existing church that there are more salvations that happen in a church plant.
(13:50):
But, you know, keeping the vision in front of them, keeping it like, this is why we’re doing it. We’re, we’re not. Just like, one of the things that I think maybe church planting 20 years ago was built more around, we’re planting a service, not a church. Like let’s just plant a gathering. And then, because that was a really effective way to reach people. And it was. But I think less and less certainly post covid, we’re seeing like regular attendance to a church now be 2.2 times a month. And we’re seeing boomers not come back to church. And, and gen Xers specifically are two groups that just are not, they’re not coming back millennials with young families and Gen Xers or sorry, gen Z. They seem to be, you know, finding their way back to, you know, houses of worship in, in, in churches.
(14:38):
But yeah, man, I, I think, I think just keeping the vision in front of them, like this is why we do it. And this is, and, and if you went on a website too, I think somewhere else we try to exist to take the guesswork out of it to help churches because they don’t have time to read all the books, they don’t have time to do all the training, they don’t have time to do all the steps that are needed to help get a new disciple making community going. So we try to come alongside them and support them. We’re, we want to come alongside their vision, their idea, but we, but obviously we wanna share like, yeah, we, we need to be like planting churches cuz we’re closing churches not to the, and at least in our POC tribe we’re slightly outpacing our closures with new starts and that’s just not, we’re not gonna reach Canada incrementally. It’s gotta be this multiplication, exponential thing. And so sharing the vision of like, you can start a church, you can do it, maybe it’s micro church, maybe it’s a campus, maybe, you know, it’s an organic grow where you look at a town next to you and you start an alpha and you know, everybody can kind of do something. Everyone can be an access point to the gospel. And so we just try to share that vision and get them and equip them and train them as best we can.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:57):
Now I, I really like the fact that you are mentoring in coaching church planners. So kind of talk me through that process. If you have a, a young man of God who comes to you and says, I it’s really been on my heart to, to start a church, I really feel a call to, to be a ministry, to be a pastor. How would you encourage him to, to plan a church and then walk him through the process? How, how long does that process take and and what are some of the things that you’re telling him?
Paul Fraser (16:29):
Yeah, so we, we have you know, church planters who kind of jump into our pipeline either at the district level or at a national level. And one of the things that, there is a book some years ago written by, I’m just trying to look for it on my shelf to get their, I think it’s called The Honest Guide to Church Planting by Tom Bernardo. And I get them to read that book and if they still want to plant churches, like after reading that book, then it’s like, okay, that’s like a good first step and literal, legit, that’s what I’ve done. I’m like, please read this book because it’s honest. Like, hey, the people you start with won’t be the people there in three years. You know, and you know, this is gonna happen, this is gonna happen. People say they’re with you and then won’t.
(17:11):
And then new people will come with new ideas and try to shift the vision and you know, all those things. And so if you read that, that’s great. But so we try to get them like, ah, tried to get them to realistically look at not an ideal world like dream world, that this is what, you know, I hear all the church planting stories and everything’s gonna be like this. Like it’s actually hard work, it’s a grind. Making disciples isn’t easy reaching people far from God and getting into that culture. So I try to get, you know, try to figure out, okay, how serious are you about it? Have you read this book? What do you think? So we talk about that. But as we go through the coaching there, there’s also an assessment that needs to happen. It’s not just good enough that you’re called, there’s a certain skillset set that you’re gonna need for a certain, you know, whatever model of church planting.
(17:59):
So we walk them through pre-assessment and then we walk them through a formal assessment after that. That would then kind of kick in some coaching. It would kick in some training. And you know, to do most launch model churches, you’re looking at about nine to 12 months. Cuz there’s fundraising that needs to happen. There’s training, team development, finding space leasing, all those things. So I try to you know, try to get them thinking like, if you want to start in September, you’re going to need, you know, really to be hitting it pretty hard in January. Now some guys start a year out and I think if you get your team meeting too early, you’ll lose a bit of steam when you actually need it in launch season. So there’s this like balance of like, yes, I want to get the team on board, but I don’t wanna start too early.
(18:55):
Cuz our launch is still nine months away. So yeah. But it’s usually about nine months in and monthly coaching I’m available. Our district lead teams or multiply network lead team is available to answer questions. And so what makes our movement a little interesting is it’s not standardized. Every district has a different process. So I try to learn all the processes and then just come alongside them. We’re working on talking about standardizing some things, but you know, we’re literally, the multi-network is here to serve them. And so whatever we can do to help them, we do. But yeah, I actually am a certified life coach and so this is just really up my alley and I love doing it and just really helping, helping them get from where they are today to where they want to be. That’s just a real big dream of mine.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:47):
Yeah, coaching is so valuable. You can either learn from your mistakes or you can learn from someone else’s mistakes. And so a coach can help you avoid some of the, the big mistakes that that might be made. What are some of the, the mistakes that church planners sometimes make that you can help them to avoid?
Paul Fraser (20:06):
Yeah, so I think, I think starting to early with a team, that that is definitely one leaving fundraising too late is another thing where you don’t say, yeah, you know, I’m working on building the team. It’s like, have you talked to any donors yet? Have you talked to your district? Have you talked to churches that might, oh no, yeah, I’m gonna get to that. And you know, we try to build in to their training, like have one conversation a week, nine months out. Because sometimes it takes two or three or four or five meetings before a donor feels comfortable. Like, oh, this is actually gonna go. And one of the important things that we try to drill in is like, hey, donor confidence is critically important. So have good reporting, have good, all of that. I would say what’s a, what’s another mistake that that planters, oh, they try to do too much on their own and they don’t rely enough on team.
(21:07):
So you wanna make sure you have a team, develop your team, spend time with them take time to think through your discipleship pathway. That’s huge. Like what is it? And if I walked into your church day one, could your core team tell me the next step? Like what’s the next step in discipleship? Are they aware of your discipleship pathway? Cause I ask pastors all the time, Hey, do you guys have a discipleship pathway? Yes we do. Great. Does anyone know it? Like, is it functioning? Is it clear? Do, does your board know it? Does your your team know it does, you know, so we don’t wanna be planting churches that don’t have disciple making culture. So I drill down like, you tell me someone walking off the street who’s never heard the name of Jesus before and get them to be a leader in your church.
(22:02):
What’s the process? And that’s, that’s the kind of thinking I really, really want to have in our new churches that we start, is that disciple making culture. Cause I think we overlook it and think, well, discipleship will just kind of accidentally happen. No, no. What’s the intentional process, steps training that you need to build this culture in your church? That’s critically important. And yeah, and it’s, and just, I think people get excited about having space and thinking that it’s gonna be theirs forever. And the reality is you’ll move probably several times before you’ll find a more permanent space. And, and you just gotta be okay with the, you gotta be okay with flexibility. We try to drill that in, don’t be too rigid, don’t try to get too worked up about how things aren’t moving. So there’s a, I don’t know, just off the top of my head, those are some of the things that I think through and try to help planters think through.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:02):
What would an ideal discipleship process look like? I, I think that’s a great question. If you have someone coming off the street who doesn’t know Jesus and, and you wanna bring them through their relationship and eventually become a leader in the church, what are some discipleship processes that you’ve seen that, that you really think other churches should, should emulate?
Paul Fraser (23:25):
Yeah, so this is probably the most, probably the most simple one that I, that I, I’ve created with our, our training. It was, it comes from actually Dr. Howard Hendricks years ago, and I can’t remember where, if I was at a conference or I heard it on a tape. Remember when we used to have tapes, you could have a tape.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:42):
That was a long time ago.
Paul Fraser (23:44):
That was a long time. Like back
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
When Jesus walked on the earth. Yeah,
Paul Fraser (23:48):
<Laugh>. Yeah. So I think he captured something that was really, really important. He talked about characteristics of a disciple. So I’m not, I don’t care how this gets done, I don’t care where it gets done. I just want to ensure that that person walking off the street has these three things that are being built into them. The characteristics of a disciple, again, from Dr. Howard Hendricks, first one, are you a learner? So you need someone to ensure what that this new person is. What are they learning? Second thing, who are they following? So do they have, and again, now today with content being so accessible, you actually have to get into people’s lives. Like who are you listening to? Like who are you, what podcast? Like, but to have someone just walking with them again, dec decide you can’t disciple from a distance very well.
(24:40):
You’ve gotta be, there’s a proximity piece. So what am I learning? Who am I following? And then there needs to be evaluation of what’s being reproduced in my life. And I think we need to spend a little bit more time on that thing, making sure that the people we’re discipling are producing the fruit of the spirit. So we actually go through it with them. How’s your love level, joy, peace, patience, kindness. Because when you’re connected to Christ, you bear this, you don’t have to work hard. So this is a, this is a telltale sign that you are connected to Jesus if this fruit is growing in your life. So you ask questions like, how’s your patience level with your kids? Not great. Okay, how do we fix that connection to Jesus? Great. how’s your, you know, how’s your self-control not great? Okay, great.
(25:32):
How do we fix that connection to Jesus? And so we can, we can use those characteristics as a way, and again, that can have through small groups one-on-one. I think Sunday mornings can play a huge part in that on the teaching and inspiration, that type of thing. And then at some point they turn from learner follower, reproducer to a teacher leader and multiplier. So when you, when you’re, when you feel like you, what am I learning? Who am I following? What’s being reproduced in my life? Then, then we ask you to be a teacher. What are you teaching? How are you leading and what are you multiplying in others? So there’s that, there’s that you start as the student, but at some point the discipleship process should lead you to you know, teacher leader and then multiplier. So I try to, I say I don’t care how that shows up, but are those characteristics being built into the culture of your church? And if they are, then there’s a good chance that a discipleship culture is being developed, but it does take time.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:42):
Do you find that you need different strategies for different parts of Canada? Like when you go to Alberta, Vancouver, there’s some really big churches, some really amazing churches, then you go to like Quebec and it’s under 2% Christian. I mean, it’s really like a mission field. Yeah. Over there are are, are you developing different strategies for different parts of Canada?
Paul Fraser (27:05):
Yeah, I think we need to, certainly you make a a great point about Quebec being francophone less than it’s, I think it’s less than 1% evangelical. So when you think about like our, our Western hemisphere, it’s one of the darkest places like void of evangelical gospel witness it, it’s Quebec and there’s just a different culture and mindset there. So yeah, I think there has to be a different strategy for our francophone family and and province. I think there’s a different strategy that’s needed for suburban, urban, and rural. So it’s not just one cookie cutter, here’s how it works. And all of those mean something different. So an urban center in Saskatchewan, for example, is I think Saskatoon is maybe 400,000 people that would be urban for Saskatchewan. Okay. What’s urban in Toronto is, you know, 11 million people in the GTA area.
(28:16):
So there is a huge difference when we talk urban from district to district, rural, either rural, like in Ontario, they think like a rural town is like 15 or 20,000, but rural in Alberta or Manitoba or Saskatchewan might be 150 people. So there, you’re right, we have to contextualize this for each province. And then as you break it down for each part of the province, like Northwest Territories for example, like up there, like Candace’s got this massive land mass, and, but I think there’s like, ah, don’t quote me on it, maybe 60,000 people in all of Northwest territories. Like it’s just really spread out in time. So you need a different church planting strategy and mission strategy for that too. So the diversity, the different kind of Canada and Maritimers are different than West Coast and I mean, it would be the same in the US wouldn’t it?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:19):
Yeah. And the East coast is very different than Oklahoma where I live. It, it’s very much more of a, a mission field and it takes a whole different thick skin to go and witness all the heathens that live over there that maybe don’t have a, a tradition of, of knowing God. I mean, here in Oklahoma even people that go to church, you know, they, they grew up in church at least. So they know something about God, right?
Paul Fraser (29:45):
There’s a Christian memory. Yeah, there’s a Christian memory, right? Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:48):
Yeah. Another unique opportunity I think you have in Canada is there are so many people coming to Canada from many different parts of the world. Yes. Where Canada, yes, for many years has sent missionaries out all over the world. But now God is really bringing the mission field to you, and especially in Edmonton. I mean, you’ve got people of every different culture and, and language and different foods that you can eat. And so that’s a, a unique opportunity for the church to, to reach out cross culturally and, and cross language groups. And God is, is bringing you and I people that need Jesus
Paul Fraser (30:28):
And, and, and people who know Jesus. That’s the other thing. Like we, some of our best church planters that we’ve had in the last five years moved here in the last five years. Like they’ve, they’ve planted multiple churches or it, it, so you know that Luke 10, two Lord, you know, send workers, send workers into your harvest fields. And we are reaping the, the efforts, the, the missional heart of missionaries going overseas to you name the country. And, and God has used, you know, those decades of faithful ministry to raise up people who have now come back to Canada, excuse me, to help us reach people far from God. So yeah. So not only are there like, I think 300 or 400,000 people are immigrating to Canada from the wor around the world every single year. So that is a huge opportunity. But many of them are coming already faith-filled believers, spirit empowered believers, and come here and go, how do we help you reach Canada?
(31:37):
We’re gonna help you reach those from Afghanistan who are being brought here. We’re gonna help you reach and, and you know, those from Pakistans or India. India and, and, and from Africa and you just Europe and you just go through the list and you just are so thankful that God cares enough about Canada, that he’s raising up people from all over the world to come here. We’re so honored. And I’ll be honest with you, our biggest growing edge of church planting is our cultural language group pastors. And they, they bring this apostolic gifting and heart that is such a blessing to us. If we had more time, I could tell you stories of what God has done through them and how they’re impacting their country still through online ministry. So they’re here in Canada, planting church is seeing fruitful ministry and are still leading at home, seeing great things getting up in the middle of the night to preach at their church Sunday morning. Amazing. Like it’s just the, these, these wonderful leaders, men and women are gifts to us and we thank God for them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:41):
That’s awesome. Well, brother Paul, thank you so much for being a guest on the Evangelism Podcast. Let’s finish up today by praying for the Nation of Canada. You know, if you’re listening, you wanna know more about the, the p ooc and the Multiply network, you can go to www.paocmultiply.com and find out more information. But let, let’s just finish up by, by praying for God to pour out his spirit upon the nation of Canada and from sea to shining sea. I, I see God pouring out the spirit upon all of Canada.
Paul Fraser (33:20):
Come on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (33:21):
Go ahead. And so
Paul Fraser (33:22):
You want me to pray? Yeah, go for it. Yeah. So, God, God, thank you for this podcast. Thank you for Pastor Daniel who just is willing to find and connect and bring great voices together to hopefully share and inspire, teach and learn about what you are doing today and what you wanna do in the future. And so I thank you for this podcast, bless it and bless him as he continues to travel all over. And just, just preach your word and see so many lives transformed by the moving of your spirit. But we do think of Canada today from as was mentioned, C to C to C. We have three of them that are surrounding Canada. And I pray God for a heart that would turn back to you. There are wells of, of strong Christian foundation. There are there’s a history that God, this was a Christian nation at one point.
(34:22):
And so wherever people are whatever they’re listening, however they’re listening to this right now and whenever they’re listening to it, that there was, there would be an agreement for you to do something special in Canada. God, I believe that if Canada wins, the world is gonna win. A Canada that is sending a Canada that has got kingdom culture is going to help impact the world. And God, I thank you for what you’ve done in the last a hundred years in poc. But I pray our former years, God, that that our future years would be better than our former years. And we had great years, but we’re believing that there’s even better days ahead. So God, we together in agreement, pray for all those in Canada. Over 30 million people who don’t know you as Lord and Savior, we pray God, that even in this next decade, we would see a mighty move of your spirit sweep across this nation. And we thank you for Canada and we thank you that it’s got a great place in the world to be an impact for you. And we ask all this in your name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:32):
Amen. Well, thank you for being on the Evangelism podcast.
Paul Fraser (35:37):
Thanks so much for having me.
Evangelism Podcast Host (35:39):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an ultra call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:40):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:01):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Waldy Bersche | Saving the Lost
Waldy Berche is my friend and he recently joined me for a crusade in Kemba, Ethiopia. Today on The Evangelism Podcast he tells about what God did in local market places and he shares what he learned from me when I was teaching at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp.
Learn more about Waldy Bersche: https://savingthelost.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Waldy Bersche from Germany,
Waldy Bersche (00:11):
Yes. So my name is Waldy Bersche. Yes. I’m from Germany.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:14):
Well, we are in the nation of Ethiopia. We have just completed doing a great gospel crusade in Kemba, Ethiopia. And you came along with me as a co evangelist. Yes. And we saw God do some amazing things. What really stood out to you this week?
Waldy Bersche (00:34):
So for me, we had a lot of healings, and this really stood out for me. So we prayed for people and they were healed right in front of our eyes. People who were blind before, people who were deaf in their ears. And it’s really great to see how God is healing people on the spot sometimes. You see how healing is working in the progress, but when Jesus heals on the spot, that so it’s great
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:56):
Miracle. What were some of the notable healings that you saw?
Waldy Bersche (00:59):
We had a lady, she was, she had pain in her body for over 30 years, and this really impacted me because she, she was suffering for 30 years and then Jesus heal her in the church. We preached in different churches and I thought about man suffering for 30 years. That’s a long time, but now Jesus was really gracious and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:21):
Yeah. Now you actually came early Yes. To the crusade, and you spent some time helping the publicity team to tell everyone Yes. About what was happening. And you went into some marketplaces. Tell me what happened.
Waldy Bersche (01:35):
So it was really unexpected for me because I thought the markets would be small, but we came there and markets, we had over 3000 people. I’m a white person, so I have a little bit of sunburn, but there, because of my white skin, it was really a great advantage. So the the children came to us as soon as we opened the door of the truck, and it was a great attraction. So we didn’t have to pay money for advertisement just to have white skin. It was, was a great advantage. And we preached there and yeah, it was actually crusades, I mean, three, 4,000 people on a marketplace. It was awesome. So I stood in on top of the truck. I was preaching with a microphone. I was totally surrounded by a big crowd, and I had to tour myself all the time and to see everyone. But yeah, Jesus did the same miracles. He was the same on the markets as on the big crusade fields.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:30):
When I first met you, it was at an ACE conference, the Association of Campaign evangelists, and we were in Sweden together, and we started to talk, and you asked me where I was going and I said next week I go to Egypt, and you decided to jump in and say, can I go with you? And so the very next day we jumped on a plane together, we went to Alexandria Egypt, where we had a, a very nice event there. And lots of people from Sudan got saved. Yes, yes, that’s true in Alexandria. And then you have this great desire to be an evangelist. Yes. And so you went to the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Yeah. and I was one of the instructors. Yeah. And then since then, you’ve gone full-time into evangelism, just giving yourself for Jesus Christ. What were some of the things that you learned in the Evangelism Bootcamp that now are helping you to tell people about Jesus?
Waldy Bersche (03:29):
So, I learned a lot of things, especially from you. I really, what do I like about you is that you write books. So I have, you’ve written a lot of books, and my goal is to write also a couple of books. So when we were together in, in Egypt, I always saw you writing on the laptop. And this really impacted me. I said, okay, if Daniel writes, I mean, then I have to write. Paul wrote also and his letters we read after 2000 years. And you said, okay if I’m going to die, my books will still preach the gospel. And that’s what I like. So this is one thing. And also the boldness just to Yeah. Stand on a crusade field just to stay on a platform and preach in front of 30 thou or 40,000 people. It’s totally different.
(04:11):
Not everyone can do this, but you made it and thought, okay I would like to learn from Daniel. I would like to learn from the best. And what, what I also really like is you told me that you read a book when you were 15 years, how to become a millionaire. And so you said, okay, I don’t want to become a dollar millionaire, but a soul millionaire. And this stuck in my head. I said, okay, Daniel brought 1 million people to Jesus. What are my goals in life? Do I want to get rich? Do I want to be famous? But I also want to lead 1 million people to Jesus. That’s my goal. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:45):
Amen. I’m
Waldy Bersche (04:46):
Really up to you
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
And agree with you that you will become a soul millionaire in the name of Jesus. And you’re already well on your way. You’ve been ministering with Christ for all nations. Yes. You were part of de capitalist previously in Yes. Just now you’re going to go to Zambia. Yeah. And you’re going to be helping with one of the, the Christ for all nations de capitalist crusades. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> you’re gonna be helping to organize it Yeah. And set it up. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and, and so you’re just giving everything you have for Jesus. And you’ve also launched your ministry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what’s the name of your ministry?
Waldy Bersche (05:19):
So my ministry is called Saving the Lost.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:21):
Saving the Lost. And if someone wants to find out about your ministry or donate to help you with all the different Yeah. Crusades and, and outreaches that you’re doing. Yeah. how can they do that?
Waldy Bersche (05:31):
Yeah. So you can just go to www saving the lost.com. Also, I just started the YouTube channel. There’s some videos also. I have Telegram also. I’m on Instagram. So I’m just Google me and you will find
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:43):
Me. Now let’s talk about how you got started. You had this desire from God to be an evangelist. Yes. But you didn’t really know what to do or how to do it. Yeah. So how did you start learning to be an evangelist?
Waldy Bersche (05:55):
So I always when I was young, a lot of missionaries came into my church. And this really left a great impression on me. So I, I read the magazines from the missionaries and I said, one day, I want to become a missionary. So I knew cfa, I knew Billy Graham, but I was so shy that, okay, I cannot contacted Billy Graham Ministries or Christ Fall Nation. Who am I? I’m just a small fish. So then I, on Google, I found by accident another crusade evangelist. He was from Sweden. And I ask him, may
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:27):
I come? My friend Marcus Blue,
Waldy Bersche (06:28):
Right. And I ask him, may I come along on one of your trips? So invited me to India, and there is somewhere in the Himalayas on, on, in a pastor’s conference. I saw how God opened up a deaf ear and I thought, oh, Jesus is still healing today, like 2000 years ago. And then we went to the south of India and I saw a crusade. And Marcos gave me the opportunity to start the crusade where he gave me five minutes as an opener. And I preach my heart out. And then when I took the microphone, I realized I want to be a crusade evangelist and discontinued. And I went to Pakistan, other countries as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:07):
You caught the missions bug. Yes. And, and now you continue in it. And I believe that God will give you Yeah. The million souls that you’re asking for. And even beyond you will be a, a soul millionaire in Jesus name. Thank you so much. Well, Valdi, we are very honored that you came and partnered with us for this great gospel crusade in Kemba, Ethiopia. And I really hope we can do something more together once again very soon. So thank you and God bless you.
Waldy Bersche (07:34):
Thank you so much, Daniel. It’s an honor.
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Lako Bedasso | What is God Doing in Ethiopia?
Lako Bedasso is the president of Ethiopia Full Gospel Church. He says his denomination has ten million people and 3,500 different churches. Today, he talks about the great harvest and the great challenges that are facing the Ethiopian church.
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m very excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, pastor Laco Beso. Yes. He is one of the key leaders here in the nation of Ethiopia. Tell me a little bit about your denomination. You’re the president, what is God doing here in Ethiopia and what is God doing through the denomination?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah. it is a, this day is a time of harvest and the time of challenge for us nowadays. When I say the time of harvest, many people are coming to Jesus. A Ethiopian focus will believers church. I am a president for Ethiopian focus gospel will believers church. We have 10 million believers in 3,527 local churches that is organized in for regions.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
What a blessing. God is moving in such great ways here in Ethiopia.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah. The God is doing great work and, and great thing is happening now. There is one area, there is a, the area is controlled by rebellions before five man for three years it was suffering in that area. Now the pieces come, the intimidator who bring that peace is our pastor from that ethnic group. So among the Liberian ethnic group, in one day I baptize 107 believers. Wow. It is three weeks ago what is happening. So God is moving in our country and touching all ethnic group. Beside that, there is a challenge also, and nowadays there is 52 local church worshiping build is destroyed. It’s need to, for us to re reconstruct that one. And we are looking the people for <inaudible>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:24):
And so there is great persecution Yes. In some areas of Ethiopia. Yes. Yes. And they’ve destroyed over 50 churches. Yes. And now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:33):
And now you’re looking for help to come and, and rebuild.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes. Yeah. We are, we are praying to God to send someone to support and stand with us. And in 22 places it is very urgent. The people are coming up in the worshiping under some trees and under very small shade. So it, it’s in need. Great. Now, additionally, we need CRO in the, the people are very, very in need to come to Jesus. The gospel is very important to healing our country, to heal our people. So we, we like to invite you to come again and to preach in my country.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:21):
Oh, thank you. I’ve been coming to Ethiopia ever since 2008. So 15 years now. The, this crusade we just did in Kemba is the 10th crusade that we have done here. And I have fallen in love with the people of Ethiopia. You know the United States is not mentioned in the Bible. Canada is not mentioned in the Bible, but Ethiopia is mentioned so many times in the Bible. And God has such a special plan for this nation and for the people. And I’m just so excited to see the, the amazing work that God is doing through your ministry. You and I actually met in South Korea. Yes. We were at the, the conference for the World Pentecostal Fellowship. Yes. And we were sitting on the bus together and you, you told me, you said, Daniel,
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Please,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:13):
You must come to Ethiopia, do a crusade, come and do a pastor’s conference. And so if, if I was to come, what, in what ways could I help your church? What, what, what could I do to be a blessing to you?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah. And as you told me that, say that we met in, in South Korea conference. I am ambassador of Ethiopian at the, for the Pentecostal World Fellowship. Here I, this, this one
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:47):
It’s beautiful pin. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So when you come to Ethiopia, number one, you share the grace of God that given to you to share for Roman and to pray for empowering of the ministers and the pastors. And number two, we invite the peoples from different part of the country and other Ethiopia, you know, the economic situation. Maybe you support, you support some of Fundis by, by by just having the room eating and all transportation for some people who do not have capacity to come this area in such way, if you support us, we need, moreover, we need your grace that God gave you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:46):
Oh, thank you. Well, I would be very honored to come and we must make plans because I believe that, that God will do something very great. If you’re listening to this, I have lots of missionaries and evangelists that listen, please come to Ethiopia. There is a great harvest here that people that are ready to come to Jesus. In the Book of Psalms, it says that Ethiopia shall quickly stretch out her hands towards God. And we have seen that so many times. And it’s so beautiful to see what God is doing here. Thank you, brother for being on the Evangelism podcast. Amen.
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Help Us Buy a Sound System | The Joshua Campaign in Ethiopia
Joshua Campaign has led millions of people to Jesus in the past 25 years in Ethiopia. But now they need to purchase a new sound system. Today I talk with Per Akvist about why it is so important to invest in the infrastructure of evangelism. Can you help?
To Give Towards a Sound System for Ethiopia go to: https://joshuacampaign.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I am in the nation of Ethiopia with my good friend, Per Akvist. Per, thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (00:14):
Thank you for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
We have just completed a wonderful crusade in the city of Kemba. Yes. We went to, we flew into Arbor Mench and then drove about three and a half hours up into the mountains. Yes, ma’am. And God did tremendous miracles,
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (00:32):
Even in the rain. It was fantastic.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:35):
And the amazing thing is, is that Joshua campaign, the organization that you lead, lead here in Ethiopia, you have been doing crusades for 25 years now. That’s correct. Across this nation. Yes. And so,
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (00:51):
Well, 15 under my leadership,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:53):
15 under your leadership before you Carl Haram. Yes. founded Joshua campaign. Yes. And Joshua campaign has literally seen millions of people come to Jesus. Now, the reason that I wanted to talk to you today is because Joshua campaign is launching a new project to prepare for the next 25 years of ministry. We think that God is working in mighty ways here in Ethiopia, and we want to be a part of it.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (01:26):
Wonderful. You’re so welcome,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:28):
<Laugh>. Thank you. Yes. And we, we’ve actually talked before about Joshua campaign on the Evangelism podcast. Yes. but today I really want to focus in and talk about this new sound system that Joshua campaign is raising funds for the sound system that you have. It was bought 25 years ago, and pieces of it have been replaced over the years
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (01:54):
And lot of repaired
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:56):
In a lot of repair. And even at this crusade, I was going and looking at some of the wires that are duct tape. They are wrapped up together. And you have a, a, a small truck and a generator that, that pull, that is pulled along with the truck, and then you have a, a platform, but really it’s come become time that all of that needs to be replaced. Tell, tell me some of the need of why.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (02:22):
As you said, the, the sound system is very well used. It’s I would say it’s good invested money. We, we have done so many crusades with this sound equipment, and of course, so much repairs as well. Today we have a good sound. But you see, you hear my voice as well. We, we, we use it with our own power as well. But the, the next step, we celebrating now 25 years, and with the 25 years anniversary, we would like to a new sound system. And we have something really good going on. And that’s an investment of a hundred thousand dollars we need to sell this truck that we have by a bigger one. The trailer is not good. Having the generator is not good having on the trailer, it’s a lot of accidents and things can happen on, on the Ethiopian roads, <laugh>, it’s very special roads here.
(03:32):
So we, we need to put the trailer on top of the I mean the generator on top of the, the, the truck. We need a larger truck in order to carry the new sound system. All in all sound stage is also, is, it’s a lot of cast irons and it’s very heavy for the boys to work with. And it’s, so it is in general, the whole, our, all of our equipment is very old and very much used. The total amount that we are calculating on now with the new truck, with preparing a new stage, the sound and all, a lot of, lot of details around we looking into a total cost of $170,000. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:28):
$170,000, you’re going to replace the platform, the sound system, and get a new truck to mount it all on. Yes. And that is a, a significant amount of money, but I was thinking about investing in the equipment that’s needed for evangelism. Now, think about a church, I was thinking about this the other day. If, if you think about a church, most of the ministry that a church does happens inside the church building. Yes. Yes. And so churches will often do a capital campaign and they will raise a lot of money in order to build a new building. And sometimes it can cost millions of dollars to build a new church building. And they ask their entire congregation to help to build the building. And, and people make commitments. And sometimes it takes a few years. They say, I will make a commitment of this amount every month for the next three years in order to help make it happen. Now, the, the reason that the ministry of a church invests in the church building is because the church building is where their ministry takes place.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (05:36):
And for members to have a comfortable place to sit in air condition and Yeah. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:42):
Now for an evangelist, we don’t minister in a church building. We go out on the dusty fields. Yes. And our ministry takes place on a platform. And so I really think by investing in the infrastructure of evangelism, you can accomplish far more forgot. Sometimes evangelists go to a nation and they, they rent a sound system just from a local music group, and it can cost a significant amount of money. I mean, they can spend up to five, $6,000 per night just renting the sound system. But the benefit of owning the sound system is then you don’t have all of that cost of renting. You own it. You can go and set it up, and at the drop of a hat, you can go anywhere that God tells you to go. Anywhere that the door opens up, you can go set up the sound system in very easily. You can have a crusade.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (06:44):
It’s a big harvesting machine.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:47):
<Laugh>, it’s a big harvesting machine. Now the good news is that Joshua campaign has been already given a significant gift
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (06:56):
That’s good.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:57):
Of $100,000.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (06:58):
That is really good
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:59):
News, <laugh>. And it comes from the everyone fund. Yes. from Empower 21, everyone is a vision by Dr. Billy Wilson, who is the president of Oral Roberts University. Yes. And he leads Empower 21. He’s also the president of the World Pentecostal churches right now. And God gave Dr. Billy Wilson a vision to reach everyone on earth with the gospel before 2033, so that every single person would have an authentic encounter with Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit before 2033, the 2000 year anniversary of Pentecost.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (07:39):
Yes. And that vision connect so well with the Joshua campaign. Our vision is one chance for every person.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:48):
One chance for every person. And so for 25 years, Joshua Campaign has been working here in Ethiopia trying to give one chance for every person to hear the gospel.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (07:58):
And I would say in that context of Ethiopia, where you have seen such a great opening after the communism, we, Carl came in right there in the beginning, and I came 10 years later. And all, in all 25 years in a situation where you have the nation was almost unreached, totally unreached till today you have it out of 120 million people, you have about 20% evangelical believers. And we have been a part of that. And I can say that from our platform, and I’m trying to, to, I don’t want to be an, an evangelist that pulling numbers here and there, but literally millions of people and moderate calculating, I believe around 4 million or, I mean, it is about, about 4 million people have come to Christ from preaching on, on our platform. So I think it’s good, invested money.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:07):
So this investment of this new sound system over the next 25 years, it could potentially result in millions more people coming into the Kingdom of heaven. Absolutely. And so for my listeners today, I want to invite you to invest in this sound system in the nation of Ethiopia. Yeah. And I have lots of evangelists who listen, I hope they will invest and then maybe even come here and preach with the sound system. You
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (09:40):
Are welcome. Give us seed money and God can open up the doors.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:45):
So we need $170,000. We have already had this grant of $100,000, so that leads $70,000. And with that we need to update the platform, update the sound system by a new truck. Just in, we, we are investing in the infrastructure of evangelism because the platform is where the ministry takes place for an evangelist. Exactly. And so I want to ask you to give something to help out with this. Perhaps you could give $10,000, $20,000. The cost of the truck is gonna be about $30,000. Maybe you’re listening. A guy will put it on your heart to go ahead and invest and buy a truck for Joshua campaign. That’s great. And so we need your help. Anything that you want to give you can contact me and at king ministries.com. Give me a call and I’ll tell you how to invest. What’s your website if
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (10:43):
Joshua campaign.com. We have a paper account there. It’s easy
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:47):
Joshuacampaign.Com. So if you want to give at joshuacampaign.com, you can, if you have a significant gift that you wanna make sure that you wire it directly into the account, contact me or contact brother pair
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (11:01):
And we will we just open up a new account in America as well. And that information will be on the website as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:11):
Wonderful. Further on. So I want to ask you to please help us invest in the infrastructure of evangelism by putting money into the sound system. It makes every crusade way cheaper to do. Yes. And it makes it possible to do so much more for God. And we need to help Joshua campaign because right now the wires are held together with spit and duct tape, and they have been so faithful. Over 4 million souls have come to Jesus with the platform that they have now. And with this updated platform, I think we will be able to reach bigger crowds, more people, and the, the, the team will not have to be out there holding wires together in the middle of the lightning storm. And it’ll
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (12:00):
Be easier to work with. It’s going to be liner race, so it’s going to be easier to, for them to work with. So everything going to be much smoother and we going to reach longer.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:12):
Awesome. Yes. All right. Well, thank you for listening to the Evangelism Podcast, brother Pair. I celebrate the great history of Joshua campaign and I look forward to see what God does in the next few years. Wonderful.
Per Akvist – The Joshua Campaign (12:23):
Pray for my Throat though.
(12:24):
Yes, sir. <Laugh>, thank you. Bless you.
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Suraphael Demissie | Prophet to Ethiopia
Suraphael is a prophet in the nation of Ethiopia. He leads Presence TV which is a 24 hour television station in Ethiopia. In today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast he says that Jesus is coming soon and the church needs to work hard to lead people to Jesus.
See the ministry of Suraphael Demissie on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PRESENCETVCHANNEL
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, prophet cfe from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Suraphael Demissie (00:14):
I’m so happy to meet you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Oh, it’s so good to be here with you. We have just landed here in Addis Ababa. We are here for a great gospel crusade in Kemba. Yes, Ethiopia. I’ve come here to the nation many times. This will be my 10th crusade, I believe, in the nation of Ethiopia. Wow. AndI’m here at the invitation of Per Akvist in the Joshua Campaign. They’ve done many crusades across Ethiopia and he’s a good friend of yours. Yes. And, and so we, we you have together, we we ate dinner tonight. Yeah. And you are telling me some about what God is doing here in Ethiopia. Brother, tell me, what is God doing in this nation?
Suraphael Demissie (00:59):
I have heard about you, pastor and you ministry for the last 10 years, maybe more than that. You had a conference here in Tokyo. What you are seeing here in physical and spiritual change, you have a effort. You have a foot, I mean, hand print on this blessing. So as, as a pastor, Ethiopian pastor as a nation, I have to say thank you first about your work and your ministry in Ethiopia. And so many souls, new souls come to Jesus. You win a lot of new souls so many people get healed, delivered. So it’s a great thing, you know, in <inaudible> Jesus to the people of Ethiopia. So on behalf of Ethiopia, we say thank you. Oh, thank you. Let me come to the, the question what we are seeing here in, to all the world what God is doing and the Holy Spirit in doing it, show that our king Jesus Christ is coming. Hallelujah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:14):
Amen.
Suraphael Demissie (02:15):
Yeah. We are the servant. We are the missioners of the last age, the last days. So gospel in Ethiopia is is burning and is dominating the country. So our government, our prime minister all the government of shall become follower Jesus Christ. There they become believers. So it implied that gospel please doing great here in Ethiopia and changes so many lives.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:55):
Now you have a multifaceted ministry here. You have a church in Hawassa. You have built a beautiful church building here in Addis Ababa. Thank you. And you also have a television ministry called Presence. Yes. And referring to the presence of God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so a few moments ago when we prayed together in your auditorium, I was praying that God would fill the place with his presence. And I didn’t even know that was the name of your TV channel. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it goes 24 hours a day. And because of that, you have become very well known here in Ethiopia. When people hear that you’re are coming, many come to to hear the word of the Lord. And so God has raised you up as a prophet, but you really started your ministry just by putting some videos up on YouTube. Yes. And you were telling me that you went into a internet cafe mm-hmm. <Affirmative> back before there was internet available all over the place. You just went into an internet cafe. And how did you start your YouTube channel?
Suraphael Demissie (04:00):
Thank you for asking me my humble beginning. Yeah. I appreciate it. You know, 10, 10 years ago I was graduating from University of Adi Ababa. When I was in the, in the university, I was a Christian students fellowship leader. I, I used to serve in the fellowship. Then God called me to serve him. So I didn’t go to any office or I didn’t find any job, but I was praying and fasting two years. Then God show me a v a vision with the vision was like I saw in the dream. I saw a big stadium and full of people. And the people who were in the stadium, they were crying and worshiping God and they were watching a video. So I was eager to see that video. And when I closed on the video and when I saw the preacher, that was me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:01):
Wow. So God gave you a vision of your future ministry?
Suraphael Demissie (05:04):
Yes. So I saw a dream about my ministry before I start my ministry. Then I go, only when I wake up from the bed, I prayed and I go to straight to the Internet cafe and ask them to open me a YouTube account. Then they open me, they sign me to a YouTube account, and they give me the password. Then I was a singer, so I had the songs. Then I upload on the YouTube some of my songs, and people were so blessed, and they ask me more and more. Then I start to upload my old sermons, my preg, my songs. Then after it become like boom. So now we have like 340,000 subscribers on TV and hundred million views on YouTube. So my humble beginning is like this.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:59):
I, like you say, boom, <laugh>, God made it happen. Yes. And I think that is so beautiful because you were willing to serve the Lord looking for any way that you could serve, and you just go open a YouTube channel. They give you the password. And now over 314,000 subscribers, over 100 million views, people all over the world, the, the Ethiopian dra dra Yes. Who are all over the world are, are watching and hearing the, the word of the Lord. Yes. On the YouTube channel. And I was watching one of the videos of one of the, the Crusades that you did in Hosana. Yes. And it looked like there were thousands of people there. What did God do?
Suraphael Demissie (06:44):
Yeah. Hosana, the, the more Christian dominating country, which is in thousand part of Ethiopia. So God in the mid nineties spokes to me about hosana, go to Hosana because I have history in God hosana. That’s not my birthplace, or that’s not my, I was raised, but one time, like seven years ago, I went to Hosana for singing. And at that night I was praying, God use me or kill me because I was so give up on ministry. I start my ministry, but the ministry was not going like what I was expecting. So I cried all the night and I said, make it or break it. Kill me or use me. Then I slept. When I woke up from my bed, I, I prayed and I, I go to the, the crusading, Hona I was invited. So when I start to sing, God opens my spiritual eyes and ears, and I saw so many visions. Then after, after that day onwards, I become like a prophet, prophet, prophetic ministry starts in my life, you know? So I have to pay back for God. I want, I want to thank God in that place. So the spirit of God told me, go to Hosana and thank me. Then when I go to Hosana, maybe 1 million people was gathered. So many miracles happened. Wow. So many <inaudible> gets the Muslims, the Orthodox. So this was a history in so powerful conference.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:31):
It’s so amazing what God is doing here in Ethiopia. God is raising this church up, and I believe that God is making you a voice, not just to Ethiopia, not just to Africa, but to the whole world. And so you serve God as a pastor. I think you have also been used by God as an evangelist, but God has given you this gift as a, a prophet. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what is the word of the Lord for the body of Christ today. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. What, what is God speaking to you as a prophet
Suraphael Demissie (09:03):
About this,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
A about what he wants to do in the world during this time. Mm-Hmm.
Suraphael Demissie (09:09):
<Affirmative>, you know, Jesus is coming soon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:11):
Amen.
Suraphael Demissie (09:12):
Hallelu, our king will see him so and versa. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:17):
I know you are a true prophet because that is what God is saying. Jesus is coming soon. He says, behold I come quickly.
Suraphael Demissie (09:23):
Hallelujah. So Jesus is edifying the church. He’s pride.
(09:30):
So we are like hand lake, leg, iron, ear for Jesus. So on, in the, on the last days, Jesus want to use us by his mighty power. You know for the sake of gospel, God do not restrict his his power. You know, he release whatever he has because this is the last time. So the last calling, the last message is preaching now. So God is speaking and working in this case mightly. So so many people is coming to Jesus. We see so many revivals in a world like Asbury University, like, you know, in a different corner of the world. So Jesus is coming soon. We are preaching that. So we expect so many lives
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:27):
Come Jesus. Amen. I believe that is right on mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with what God is saying. Jesus is coming soon. Yes. And we need to make every single second count for God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well, thank you so much, brother, for being on the Evangelism podcast. If someone is looking for your YouTube channel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, how do they find it? What is your name on the YouTube channel?
Suraphael Demissie (10:48):
Presence TV channel, worldwide
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:50):
Presence TV Channel Worldwide. So I encourage you go and subscribe to the YouTube channel. Receive a blessing from the man of God. And Brother, could we finish today by asking you to pray for those who are watching? Yes. But don’t pray in English. I want you to pray in [inaudible] and just pray a blessing. Amen. Over those who are watching, that God will bless them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:46):
Amen. Thank you, brother for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Suraphael Demissie (11:48):
Thank you for giving me this chance. God bless you. God bless you.
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Barry Meguiar | From Car Crazy to Jesus Crazy
Barry Meguiar is famous for his Car Wax business and for his Car Crazy television show that aired for 18 years on the Discovery Channel. But his real passion is making Jesus famous. On today’s episode of The Evangelism Podcast, he talks about how God can use a businessman to share the Gospel with people who need Jesus.
Questions for Barry Meguiar:
- How can God use a businessman to lead people to Jesus?
- What advice would you give to other businessmen who want to share their faith?
- Tell me about your mandate to move everyone, everyday, closer to Jesus.
- What do you mean when you say that “Sharing your faith is not a “Yikes!” but a “Wow!”
- Why do you consider witnessing to be a “team sport?”
- Why did God tell you to make “your business your pulpit?”
Learn more about Barry Meguiar at: igniteamerica.com
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Barry McGuire is famous for his car wax business and for his “Car Crazy” television show that aired for 18 years on the Discovery Channel. But his real passion is making Jesus famous. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, he talks about how God can use a businessman to share the gospel with people who need Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:39):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest, Barry McGuire. He is a car wax businessman who also had a tremendous car show called Car Crazy on Discovery Channel for many years. But the thing that he’s really excited about is evangelism. Mr. Berry, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Barry Meguiar (01:33):
Thank you. Greatly honored. And we are soulmates in every respect. We’ve not met me each other before, but we are, we are definitely soulmates. I love everything you say and do I just say it? Amen. Amen. Amen. And and thank you for all that you’re doing and the people you’re influencing to get off the bench and into the game.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:51):
Well, thank you. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was with Steve Strang from Charisma Media and I interviewed him for the Evangelism Podcast. And he says, now I got a guy that you have to meet Barry McGuire. We’re publishing a book for him and he is an evangelist through and through. People think he’s a car guy, but really he’s excited about evangelism. And so,
Barry Meguiar (02:14):
Well, I’m both, I’m both. I am a car guy. I love my business. I love waxing eloquent on cars. And I’m a part of this. There’s 30 million car guys just in the United States. And I love this community. I tend, I often meet Christians at car Guy events and, and the best thing in the world is be Christian, know the Lord and, and be able to enjoy the car hobby because the car, people in the car hobby are really quite special and they’re really exhibiting everything. The scriptures tell us to do. I mean, they’re the most generous, caring people on a global basis. There’s, there’s something about the DNA of a car guy. I know it’s hard for you to understand a few moments, but it’s, it’s crazy. The problem is this, most car guys are so good. They think they’re on their way to heaven because they’re good.
(03:01):
And I find it’s easier to reach a scoundrel with a gospel <laugh> than, than it is a lot of car guys who some, I, I call it chumming. I’m always throwing out chum, you know, just try to get the, get their hunger going. And some, I’ve been doing that for 20, 30 years and they’re just so good. They can’t conceive him of God, who would, who would send them to hell. And I say, he didn’t send you to hell, he didn’t send anybody to hell, you know, but you have to make a choice, you know, and they know who Jesus is. They would swear to Sac of Bible, Jesus, the Son of God. They know that. They, they know that. But the thought of bowing down to him and bending their knees and and giving control of their life horses, it’s because they’ve got, you know, a lot of car rides have, they can do about anything they wanna do. And it just breaks my heart that they could hold onto this world so tightly. Like it’s never gonna go away, but it’s falling apart all around us. So I, I often say even so, a couple more Jesus, but then immediately say, wait a minute, <laugh>, I got too many people. I gotta get on the bus before we get for before we’re outta here. You know, so you know what I’m talking about.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:08):
That’s awesome. Well, I really wanted to ask your perspective as a businessman, cuz a lot of people, they have a, a sense that the great commission telling people about Jesus is the job of the evangelist. Someone like me or like a a pastor, someone who is in the clergy. But you’ve been a businessman your whole life, and yet God has used you in a powerful way in the area of business. How can God use a businessman to bring people to Jesus?
Barry Meguiar (04:40):
Well, first off, let me say, I think you clarified it about us anyway, as well as anybody there, there’s the evangelist, the people that are called to be an evangelist, okay? Then there’s a work of evangelism that we’re all called to. And we are, we’re all, all of us are in full-time ministry. I say, you know, you’re in full-time ministry, whether you like it or not. Everything you say or do is moving people closer or further away from God. If you’re a Christian, people are watching you. And everything you say and do is moving whether you want to or not. You can’t get away from it. <Laugh> you can’t get, you can’t escape it. Everything you say and do is moving everybody watching you closer or further away from God. I often also say you are a witness. You’re already a witness. You may be a witness for the prosecution, <laugh>, but you’re a witness.
(05:28):
People are judging are, are, are making their decision on God based on what they’re saying with Christians. Of course, we know that that’s a pretty sad state right now because most people don’t wanna be like Christians. They look in, they call ’em, I had one last sign I was talking to out in the street, and I, I want God, but I don’t wanna be with Christians. I hate Christians. What a, what a clear, pure commentary on where the church is today. We don’t realize how easily we, we move people away from God. You know, the most common one would be after church on Sunday. We go to church, we go to church, we go out afterwards, probably several of us in a little larger group, a little more demanding, stay a little longer than we should. Talking about God, the waiters server knows they we’re from the church.
(06:17):
You know, my, here, there we go again. And then when they leave, they stiff the waiter, you know? Yeah, dude, they just move that server closer, further away from without even realizing it. Praise God. All right, see you later, <laugh>. And this person, that’s a soul that God loves. It’s just been left devastated. Servers don’t like to work on Sunday afternoons because of church people. So there’s, there’s all kinds of ways that share our faith is that, that non-verbal and, and verbal. But the point is, you gotta be in intent. You gotta realize we’re full-time. It’s full-time. It’s not, not part-time. There’s nothing that you and I do, nothing any of us do is Christians. That’s secular. We meet secular appeal, but there’s no such secular, secular conversation. Every conversation, every intonation, everything we’re doing is sacred. It’s, it’s an opportunity to move in closer to Jesus when you realize that it changes your life.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
Now, one of the things I really liked about your new book, ignite Your Life, is that this book is chock full of anecdotes, stories about people that you met, that you helped bring closer to Jesus. Can you share some of those stories with us and, and, and, and tell us about how you can bring people closer to Jesus?
Barry Meguiar (07:31):
Well, first off, you know, the, one of the biggest misconceptions about face sharing is that you’re supposed to share with them and get them on the knees and pray the sins prayer, one step <laugh>. And I started out that way, and I still find people today that think that’s, that’s, that’s the norm. And of course, it’s absurd. It’s, it’s God’s timing. And the average person takes, you know, it’d be 20 encounters before they finally accept the Lord. And we don’t know where we are. Along the scripture’s very clear in that some, some over the seed, so is on, on hard ground. And some it’s furled and some it’s shallow. And so, I mean, that’s, that’s what the scripture say. If we follow what the scripture say, we pretty much ignore about everything. All the evangelism programs say like, you know, get one person saved today.
(08:16):
Okay, well, out of all the people I’m gonna be with today that are going to hell I’m supposed to pick one. Okay? how do I pick that one? And, and then what about all the others? I just let them go to hell. <Laugh>, I mean, help me, help me with this, you know, and living a good life. Most Christ think share living a good life is, is sharing your faith. But living a good life doesn’t get you or anybody else in to heaven. And yet, most evangelicals, I don’t know what that term means anymore, but most people that call themselves evangelicals think that just being good will will get them there. And we’ll move people closer. So if, if attach God to all the good they were doing, we’d be a Christian world because we are doing a lot of good.
(09:00):
But, but it makes us, puffs us up and we feel really good about doing good, you know, and say, well, God must be really proud of you. I was really generous right then. But it brings us glory and not them. So how do you connect? And, and, and I’m sorry, but recitation of a script doesn’t seem to do that real well. I I, I thank God for evangelism approvals. I really do. I know millions of people been brought to the Lord, but because of them, but most of ’em don’t. Most of us don’t go to evangelism programs and we’re not trained. So how do we do it? The real,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:32):
Yeah. I really like one, one story that you shared in here. You said you’re going through an evangelism script and you’d always get to like the second step and you’d lose your place. And then the person you’re talking to would ask a completely different question. You then you’d get mad at them and mad at God. Oh, no. Because they weren’t sticking with the script, and then you’d try and bring them back. All right? So if, if you don’t have a script, how do you live Jesus from the inside so that you can be led in the right direction to helping people come closer to Jesus?
Barry Meguiar (10:02):
That’s, that’s the key question. And, and it comes to me in several ways. You know what Jesus said? They’ll, they’ll know, you’re my disciple by how well you recite your script. No, not actually, no <laugh>, you know, he said, don’t know. You’re my decided by your love. We don’t need training to love on people. And everybody’s starving for love. And when you love on people when they’re hurting, they won’t turn to tears pretty quickly. It’s amazing. People have this smile, but just right on. That’s why we see so much anger today. You do just a little thing wrong. He gets shot today. I mean the, there’s this veneer of smile, but underneath there’s hurt. And when you come to them, not in anger, but you come to them in love, the Holy Spirit confirms it to them. You know, Jerry Root, the author of the Sacrament of Evangels, you probably read that book when he talks about how God’s already celebrated working with each person. When we come in, we enter into the sacred moment, we’re becoming a, a physical manifestation of what God is already putting in their hearts. So it’s this, the every relation, every conversation is, is amazing. And when you love on people, they just, they just open up. Let’s see if I can thi I mean, there’s, they’re <laugh>. I got a million of ’em. I’ve done, Karen and I have been sharing our faith every day for 50 years. Okay,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:21):
That’s amazing. And
Barry Meguiar (11:23):
And because of that, he’s done some amazing things with our lives and our business and whatever. But well, I tell you, I I, I jumped in a taxi one day. I was the Marriott Hotel downtown Detroit. I was going to Cobo Hall, and it was a five minute walk, but it was seven degrees, okay? <Laugh>. So I I jumped in, I said, Hey, I just gotta get a short ride, but I give you a big tip. The guy yells at me, I don’t want a tip. What <laugh>, I don’t want a tip. Excuse me, sir, why don’t you want a tip? I’m a bad person. I don’t deserve a tip. That’s he yelled at. Worse than that, you know, talk about hurting. I, I got so many stories like this. But here’s the thing, mark 1311 says don’t prepare. How do you prepare for those conversations?
(12:12):
You can’t listen. So step one, <laugh>. Oh, and then Luke 1212 says, I’ll give you the word to say when you need them. And that’s the fun part of it, folks, when you just step in and just do it, there’s no preparation that you have nothing. All of a sudden you’re face to face with somebody and their son just committed suicide. Or if they just got the call, they got cancer. I mean, you can’t prepare those conversations. And when you just love on them and tear with them and generally love on them, and then the Holy Spirit gives you the words to say it’s, it’s the craziest thing. There’s no other way to have this kind of intimacy with God than to allow God to speak to you. See this life in front of you changing. In this case, I said this, man do you know God loves you?
(12:56):
No <laugh>. I said, yeah, he loves you. No, he just, he’s so angry, poor man. I said, sir, I I, I’m a student of the Bible. I’m a Christian and I know the Bible really well, and I can tell you for sure absolutely positive, he loves you. Now. He says nothing. I said, you know what? Even, even better do, do you know he loves you as much? He’s ever loved anybody ever dead quiet. I said, you know, it gets even better than that. You know, he loves you. I’m laughing, telling him, I said, do you realize that God loves you as much as he loves his own son, Jesus Christ, that’s how much he loves you. Dead quiet over now, where Coha I get out, it’s snowing. I remember the salt in the windows, the windows going down. He’s looking at me like He <laugh>, he’s speechless.
(13:49):
He’s never heard this. He thinks God hates you. It’s over. And I said, you know sir, God put me in your taxi just now because he wants you to know that he loves you and he wants you to spend attorney with him. And then I gave him a really big tip. I said, God bless you. Have a great day, <laugh>. And I walked, yes, <laugh>. Did I get him saved? Of course not. Did I move him closer to Jesus? You better believe it. I may have stayed you committing suicide that day. And so that basic theme, there’s so many ways to say that never. People come in, they, they have this sentence, they set ’em, everybody, if you were to die today, do you know you go to heaven? Whatever. They’re, they have a million of these things and they do every over and over with everybody.
(14:34):
Well, everybody is an everybody. Each person’s an individual. And you allow the Holy Spirit. And the moment you go to script, it gets plastic. It’s static. Cuz something, it’s like you just say it because that’s what you’re supposed to say. But when you love on people, when we love on our friends, we don’t recite a script, have anything prepared. We just love on them. We’re broken for them. And when we do that, people break and they, within five minutes, they’re telling you, you know how it works. Within five minutes, they’re telling you things they won’t tell their best friends. And then you know the point of need. Then God gives you the scriptures and you see the change in front of your eyes and you’re praying, you’re hugging. I I, I pulled up the other day in front of a, a restaurant, my friend, it was kind of an open parking lot, but for some reason he pulled this place right in front of us was a, was a black guy and a tank top tattoo, dreadlocks, all filling his radiator with a great big bottle of water, <laugh>, you know, so I, I said, Hey, can I help you?
(15:33):
He said, no, I got under control. I just have a leaky radiator and I just driven here from Alabama and just, just got in town and I just made sure I had to make sure I have a lot of water. And I said, so what you doing? So I found out that he left his wife and and daughter at home to get a job. He found he could drive a truck if you driven a truck. No, but I have a friend here. He says, I can drive a truck. All of a sudden I’m talking about God’s plan for his life. And he’ll, God wants to guide and direct him and take all that fear off and help. When I was a kid, I didn’t know what I was doing, and I didn’t know where I was gonna go. I had, I was kinda the same situation.
(16:06):
I just prayed, you know, trust the Lord with your whole heart game, all this stuff. Before we know it, we’re praying, he’s hugging me, <laugh>. And then we have a little card we give people. At the end of every conversation like that, we have a little card says, seeking God, little business card, seeking God. You can order ’em for free. There’s, there’s no cost to, and it’s a robust site that tells them everything they need to know. It’s testable, these videos to buy whatever. It would take them easily from no knowledge of God to the sinners prayer. And so rather than just leaving somebody like that well, I hope they find a church somewhere. You give them the card and say, would you like to know more about God? They say, yes. I said, oh, here’s a card. You can have it tell you everything you want to know. I mean,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:49):
That’s amazing
Barry Meguiar (16:50):
Privilege of doing that. It’s so, it’s so much fun. It gives you joy when you’re, when you’re bearing fruit. John 1511 says, when you bear fruit, my joy remain with you. And, and your joy remain full. If you wanna have joy, this who, who knew <laugh> having joy is directly connected with bearing fruit, with loving our neighbors. It is the great commission after all,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:12):
<Laugh>. Yeah, your joy is really infectious. It makes me want to go out and, and witness right now and lead someone to Jesus. Because you’re right, the Bible says that all the angels of heaven rejoice when one sinner gets saved. And there’s no feeling like that feeling of, of bringing someone to the point where they, they make Jesus the Lord of their life and they turn away from hell and turn towards heaven. I mean, that is such a, a joyful occasion. Another idea that you have, that I really love is that you consider witnessing to be a team sport. Can you explain what that means and, and why you feel that it’s a team sport?
Barry Meguiar (17:50):
Yeah, well, take the gentleman and the and and the taxi driver. You know, did I get him saved? No, I I, I maximized my time with him. I had a five minute window and I moved him down the line that didn’t get him saved. But God is sovereignly moving each person. And it is a team sport. It is a team sport. What if I, on the times when I lead somebody, the Lord, and that’s a very small percentage of all the people I talk with, but I know there, there may have been 20 people before me, so I’m celebrating not that look what I did, but look what God did through a whole bunch of us, and we won’t know till we get to heaven. All the people played a, a role in that, you know? So yeah, God uses Christians, he brings us in.
(18:33):
He orchestrates their steps and or steps. It’s amazing how that happens. I mean, I got all kinds of stories and I can tell you one just real quick. I, I was going to dinner and I had to get their first so I could give the waiter my credit card before my friend got, there was always a contest between who and to get the bill, right? So my Uber app didn’t work. I said, Karen, we gotta get outside the hotel to, to so the Uber app worked, so we get out. It didn’t work outside either. So Karen says better, you better get that taxi right there. So I said, okay, Sarah, I I, I’ll take that taxi. He says, that taxi’s smoking for, well, there was nobody around me. I said, spoken for. He says, yeah, look back. There’s a lady way back at the right by the front door.
(19:14):
And it was her taxi. I said, well, how long will it take to get a taxi? He’s owe about 15 minutes. Becauses a busy time. And, and I blood star. I said, <laugh>, I gotta get to this restaurant, right? So finally I hear, sir, sir, and I turned around and this lady, and she says, just take my taxi. I said, w why would I do that? She’s my husband’s upstairs. I don’t know what he’s doing. <Laugh>, I don’t know how long you can just take this taxi. I’ll take the next taxi. I said, okay. We’d jump in the taxi and burp. We’re spinning rubber of the guy in, in his first sentence of profanity. What the hell? You know, where, where the hell do you wanna go? I forget how he said it. It was just like, wow. So we started, God
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:59):
Brought us another one.
Barry Meguiar (20:01):
He brought us another one. You know, I mean, it’s so much fun. If you, if you’re not thinking about Spur, you’re saying, let me get out of this car as fast as I can. But when you have these things, how do you realize God’s in it? It’s like an adventure. It’s so you ask questions and you find out his wife just died from painful cancer. Agging cancer she’d been through for months, couldn’t stop the pain she had just died. He had to work. His kids were outta control and total com, com rebellion. He was just beside himself. And God gave you the script just so easy. He just effortly say, effortly say, I said, Jesus, you know, Jesus says, come under me all who are all of you who are heavy burden, and I’ll give you rest burden, heavy aid. I’ll give you rest.
(20:45):
And he yells at the same intensity, man, do I need to rest <laugh>. So we’re, we’re feeding him scriptures, Karen and I both, we finally get there, we get outta the taxi. And I said to him, he said, I need to get in church. I said to him, if, if you would trust me with your, where, where you live and your cell number, I’ll find a church for you and, and send it to you. So you know we’re, oh, would you do that? So he’s writing it all down. I said, can I pray for you? He said, yes. So the three of us in front of the headlights of the taxi, in front of the restaurant, people walking in, and we laughed later about how that must have looked and we’re praying and we’re all tearing and just, just emotionally involved with each other. My point is this, he, he had to stop my Uber app.
(21:30):
Think of what he went through for that. That guy was hungry for God. He didn’t know, but he was hungry for God. He was right. So he, God starts my Uber app from working. He keeps the, the gal’s husband upstairs, right? He gives her the generosity, say, go ahead and take my taxi. And then it happened to be his taxi at that moment who look at all he orchestrated, make it so I had the opportunity to share it with him. I didn’t know the end of the story. There’s other people involved, other team players in the part of that story who know glory. But to be a part of the team and, and just get off the bench. If you’re sitting on the bench, you at to peak and, and everything falls apart, you no longer have hunger for the word. You’re no longer praying, everything falls down.
(22:14):
You’re at worry. 80% of all Christians are in fear right now, living in fear right now. It’s tragedy. But when you’re sharing your faith, nobody has to tell you to read your Bible. Man, you’re digging as fast as you can, try to get answers to all the questions. And you being asked, you say, God, help me. I don’t know what I’m doing. Help me. Thank you for ringing Bob into my life. And I pray and you’re praying and everything’s working. It’s the whole, your whole spiritual life is working. You’re alive. That’s why he says he wants us to share of faith. And I’ll give you one last scripture, which is powerful. Do you know, there’s actually a scripture says, why from from Genesis to Revelations. He says, do it. But in Isaiah 43 10, he says, why? He says, I appoint you as my witness so that you’ll believe, so that you’ll believe. Now I would say so that they will believe. No, he says so and he didn’t say this show. You’ll believe more. He says so that you will believe. That’s why he wants you to share your faith. Because once you step into that world, your entire life changes. And it’s joy every day. Every day is joy. It’s adventure. It’s, it’s ignites your life. That’s a good name for a book Ignites Your Life, <laugh>,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:25):
Hey, that is a good name for a book. And you’ve written it, ignite your life. Now, one of the things about car Guys is that you, you never have to convince a car guy to talk about his car. All you do is ask the first question and then they can talk forever about all the details, everything they’ve upgraded and, and polished and made it in
Barry Meguiar (23:45):
Minutia. Yes,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
<Laugh>. And, and I think the same should be true as Christians. We shouldn’t fear sharing our faith with others. If you love Jesus as much as a car guy loves his car, then you’ll talk about Jesus everywhere you go. Do you think that’s true?
Barry Meguiar (24:01):
Oh God, there’s no question. It’s, it’s true. Here’s the point. Whatever you’re excited about to talk about, I’m excited about cars, I’m excited about shiny finishes. So I love talking to you about how I can make a perfect finish in your car. Use McGuire’s car wax. It will look like a jewel. And I, I’m so excited about talking about that. I’m excited about that. So I talk about it a lot. Question for all of you listening to us right now, or are you, are you talking about God much? If, if you’re not talking about God much, you, I’m not saying you’re not going to heaven, you’re on your way to heaven, but I’m talking about having fun and doing what you’re supposed to do. If you’re talking about God, if you’re not talking about God, then he probably is no longer your first love.
(24:45):
And the easiest way to describe that is a new Christian, you know, a new Christian. You can’t stop them from sharing their faith because God, you just save me for help. <Laugh>, I’m on my way to heaven. He’s my first love. So next year you’re gonna share it, you know, and in, at the letter, in the letter to the church at Ephesus, in the revelations chapter two, he says, I, I, I thank, I know you’re doing all the good stuff and you give sacrificially, you know, good teaching for bad, you know all that. You’re there, but I have this against you. You’ve left your first love and, and you’re no longer doing the first work. The first thing every Christian does is share their faith. If you’re no longer loving him first, then you’re no longer sharing him. So if you go to Romans that’s repeated over and over, love your neighbor as yourself, as you’re, if you’re as concerned for your neighbor as you are for yourself, as concerned for their salvation as you are for yourself, you, you, that’ll, your whole conversation will be different, right?
(25:43):
You, you’ll do everything you can to get them into heaven. So you’ll fulfill all 10 commandments because of the two. Because now it’s not out of obligations, because I don’t wanna do anything. Can I indulge and do that? Can I look at that? Can I laugh at go to heaven? Yeah, sure. But does that helping you get people to Jesus? That’s the question. And the big one is Romans a 28, probably the most, maybe the second most well-known and mis misunderstood scripture in the Bible where he says, I’ll make God sense. He doesn’t lie. I’ll make everything in your life work together for good. Wow. Take if you knew God was going to make everything work for good in your life, even the bad stuff, take everything. That’s his promise to you. But there’s two things you have to do to get there. One is God, having him His first love, loving him more than anything else, nothing separating us.
(26:32):
And secondly, in the part that’s hardly ever preached, if you love me, to those who love me, to those who live for my purpose, not your purpose, stop trying to find your purpose. He didn’t have a purpose for you. He has a plan for you to fulfill his purpose. His, there’s no question on that theologically, his purpose is to seek and save the loss. And so when you live your life to seek and save the loss, to live your neighbor as yourself, to love God first and do the first work it all, the whole weight of scripture comes down to this point. When you do that, then you’re in sync with God, and then you have God flowing through you. And that’s when you know nobody can take your faith away from you. 80% of Christians need to hear this today. 80% of Christians are living in fear.
(27:21):
If you’re living in fear, you can’t li you’re not living in faith. If you don’t have faith, you can’t share your faith. That’s the bottom line for us. We gotta get people out of fear. And it’s so easy. Just do the basic simple things. God tells to do love on people. I had, I had a lady at, at our home this weekend and a great duress. She loves the Lord, but save just having a heyday with her. And it was so easy to change her from this, this poor me thing, folks. She was just confessing, confessing, confessing, bad stuff, all this bad stuff, you know better than this. You know, the scriptures, let me just remind you. And over a period of a day, all of a sudden, she just, she just hugged me before I, I came and joined you. She goes, I can’t join.
(28:07):
I got my mojo back. I’m back. I’m good. I just <laugh>. And it was just understanding the truth that she already knew. It. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like Pat Boone wrote a book a long time ago. It’s like having a big check account and not cashing any checks with it. God wants to pour out his blessings on us, but we restrict him by our lack of faith. If we don’t have, if we don’t have faith, if we’re wavering, if we’re part of the 80% that have fear, then we follow that category in James one where he says, if you’re wavering, I don’t, I don’t, don’t expect me to answer any of your prayers. You may be praying like crazy. I’ve done that in the past. I’ve been 50 years doing this. And I went through a two and a half period year period where I was worrying like crazy.
(28:48):
I was trusting, I knew God was solve, put solve the problems sometime, but I was worrying like crazy in the meantime. And a preacher on the radio said to me, said one day as I was driving down the street, who’s your God? I, well, I got that one straight. Okay, that one, he’s, I ain’t gonna have to get Who’s your God? I thought, oh, I’ve heard f i I started change the, I’ll tell you who’s your God, but whatever feels your prayers is your God. And we are so easily prone to pray for this ministry or this urgency, or this problem, or this cancer or whatever the problem is. And it’s like, God, help us, help me with my God <laugh>, you just can’t do that. God is God. He will never let us down. And when, when we’re in perfect harmony with God, when we live for his purpose, to seek and save the loss, and when you do that, it, it ignites your life, guaranteed. It’s so simple, <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (29:43):
That’s awesome. Well, as a minister, I wanna say thank you to you as a businessman because over the years you’ve been very successful in business, but you haven’t just kept all your success for yourself. You’ve also done a, you’ve helped so many other ministries. You’ve helped James Dobson with Focus on the Family, David Wilkerson, the Assemblies of God Missions Board. You have poured your time and talents back into the kingdom of God. And I think that’s so valuable for businessmen to understand that they have a very essential role to play in the kingdom of God. And, and so what advice would you give to businessmen who want to be used by God in a powerful way?
Barry Meguiar (30:25):
What a great question. You know, at, at one point I thought God was calling me into full-time ministry. And it was, believe it or not, it was 1976, okay? 1976. And I, I prayed the most fervor fair of my life. I, I, I love my business, I love everything about my business. I, I, I could see where we were just starting retail. Now we’re the number one selling car wax in the country right there. We’re just starting. And I had this dream, I believe God gave it to me. This was my baby. But I was feeling like he was taking me into full-time ministry because I was having so much fun sharing my faith. And so I prayed, I said, God, if you want me to leave my business and go into full-time ministry, I will do that. I, I said it through tears.
(31:10):
I will do that, but I’m almost gonna have to hear from you with an audible voice because I need to know for sure. And if it’s for sure that I’m gone, I’m, I’m with you all the way either whatever way you want me to go. So about 20 minutes later, a a a guy came into my office, secretary said, there’s a Dave MCT here to see you. And I thought, well, that’s strange. I knew this guy. I didn’t really know this guy. He, he, he tended my church, but I didn’t know him. He’d spoken from the platform a couple times. So I knew he was a missionary kid, grew up in Africa about my same age, but I’d never even exchanged a glance with him. Here he is walking into my office. And I said, well, hi Dave, how you doing? He, I was in the area, thought I’d stop by and just ask how’s, how’s it going?
(31:54):
So I made a snap decision. He wasn’t into shiny paint finishes. So I, I started telling you about experience I was having, and this was the defining moment of my life. And I think it answers your question. He said, God’s given you a wonderful ministry here, hadn’t he? I said, wait a minute, maybe after you pray the prayer, that was a pretty astounding statement. He was raise, I’d seen them overlapping, but still, I’m a businessman. I’m a Christian. I see these two different things. He, he says God’s given you a wonderful ministry here, hadn’t he? And I said, why would you say that? He said, well, a, a pastor can’t reach the people you’re reaching, but as a businessman, you can. And he gave me this line in 1976, it’s obvious that your business is your pulpit. Wo that means they’re overlapping.
(32:45):
There’s no separation. My business is my pulpit. Yeah, it was amazing. I just, oh my goodness. So I told you, I just prayed this prayer, not 20 minutes ago. He told that, explains it. I said, explains what? He always drive me up Red Hill. I just dropped missionaries off at Orange County Airport in Irvine. I was driving up Red Hill, the closest main street to my office. And he said, and God spoke to me and said, go see Barry McGuire. And I’d seen your building, I’d seen your name on it. I put together with the name at church. But I, I argue with God all the way to your office saying, I don’t know this guy. I don’t know what kind of business he’s in. I you gonna make a fool outta myself, but God wouldn’t let me go. What if he had not been obedient?
(33:28):
I I would’ve been a failure as a pastor, not a pastor. I’m a full-time ministry, whether I’m not a pastor, my business, my Pope, but wherever you are, folks, if you’re in business, your business is your pulpit. It’s secondary. Don’t ever let that capture your prayers and, and your joy. Don’t ever God, your joy’s in God. And we love him. The more I spent time serving him and sharing him, the more he blessed my business. Like there’s a wake behind me. I keep looking at, my business keeps getting bigger. Now I’m working hard for the business. But my joy, my everything, my focus is how can I, even when I get turned down in sales calls, my goal is I wanted to move them closer to Jesus <laugh>. I don’t care if I get the sale. Cause I know when I live that way, he promises me that everything’s gonna work for good.
(34:11):
You live in this promise. That promise is yours. He’s promising you, I’ll make everything your life work together for good if you, when you live for my purpose. It’s so simple. And, and who knew it works <laugh>. I mean, the scriptures actually work. And after 50 years in this tiny little business to where we are now and the influence we have to move people closer to Jesus. And it’s a joy. It’s just so much joy. Take my business away from me. Take my house. I don’t care. I got joy. You know? And it, it just ignites your life. I mean, I think you enjoy the book because it tells a lot of it. It’s, it’s a book of scriptures. The scriptures will set you free. The the scriptures will ignite your life. My life story is just trappings around it to kind of put in perspective what the word of God is really saying.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:58):
Well, if you’re listening, I encourage you to get a copy of the book. It’s called Ignite Your Life by Barry McGuire. This would be a great book to read. And if you have someone in your life who is enthusiastic about cars, maybe grandpa or an uncle who has a, an old car that they, they love to wax and polish, this would be a great book to give them, to be a witness to them. I, I guarantee they’ve heard of Barry McGuire and they, they would love hearing the story of how excited he is about sharing his faith. And if you wanna be excited about sharing your faith, get a copy of this book. It will really encourage you. I’d also encourage you to go to the website, ignite america.com for more information about Barry McGuire and Brother Barry, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I just love your enthusiasm. I love your joy, and it really is a pleasure to get to know you. God bless you,
Barry Meguiar (35:53):
Greatly honored, greatly honored. Bless you, Daniel.
Evangelism Podcast Host (35:55):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? “Proof God is Real” Daniel King shows you, God is there and he cares for you. Plus, how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order “Proof God is Real” today by calling 1-877-431-4276 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:58):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:19):
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Ray Comfort | So Many Lions, So Few Daniels
Ray Comfort is a Christian evangelist and author who is known for his efforts to evangelize and defend the Christian faith. He is the founder and CEO of Living Waters, a ministry that focuses on evangelism and apologetics, and he is the co-host of the television program “The Way of the Master,” which teaches believers how to share the gospel with others.
Comfort was born in New Zealand in 1949 and became a Christian at the age of 18. He has written numerous books on the Christian faith, including “God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists,” “Hell’s Best Kept Secret,” and “Evolution: The Fairy Tale for Grownups.”
Comfort is known for his controversial and confrontational approach to evangelism and he is a significant figure in the world of Christian evangelism and apologetics. He often uses the Ten Commandments to share the Gospel. His YouTube channel has over 200,000,000 views.
On today’s Evangelism Podcast I Ray Comfort him some difficult questions about his theology, let’s hear how he answers them…
Learn more about Ray Comfort and the Living Waters Ministry: https://livingwaters.com/
Questions for Ray Comfort:
You have written over 100 books. What is unique about “So Many Lions, So Few Daniels”?
Let’s talk through a couple of scenarios of how you present the Gospel to people:
- You meet a guy on the street who loves to party. He is drinking and cussing. What do you say to him?
- You are affectionately known by atheists as “Banana Man” because of an illustration you once gave using a banana. You meet a girl who says she is an atheist. What do you say to her about her belief in evolution?
Why do you focus so much on the Ten Commandments in your witnessing?
I have two big questions about how you witness. The first big question is in how you begin your conversation and the second big question is in how you end your conversations.
- When you start witnessing, you usually emphasize the sinfulness of humanity instead of talking about the love of God. Bill Bright, who founded Campus Crusade for Christ, taught people to witness using the Four Spiritual Laws which starts with the idea that “God Loves You and He has a Wonderful Plan for Your Life.” Romans 2:4 says “The goodness of God leads you to repentance.” So why do you emphasize the law of God instead of the goodness of God?
- After you present the Gospel, I never see you ask people to pray a prayer of salvation. Why don’t you close the deal? Why don’t you pray a prayer of salvation with people or give altar calls? What is a false conversion?
The name of your TV program is “The Way of the Master.” When Jesus walked the earth, He healed lots of sick people so if you really want to follow the way of the Master, what role should miracles play in the ministry of the evangelist? When Philip the Evangelist preached in Samaria, many people were healed. Do you believe that God can use physical healing in order to draw people to Jesus?
Your first book is “Hell’s Best Kept Secret.” You are quite critical of large evangelistic meetings led by evangelists like Billy Graham and Luis Palau. You emphasize that with modern evangelistic methods, 80% of the people who are reported to be saved end up backsliding. What do you think is the solution to this problem?
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
His YouTube channel has over 200 million views. Ray Comfort is a Christian evangelist and author who is known for his efforts to evangelize and defend the Christian faith. He’s the founder and c e o of Living Waters, a ministry that focuses on evangelism and apologetics. And he’s the co-host of the television program, the Way of the Master, which teaches believers how to share the gospel with others. He was originally born in New Zealand. He became a Christian at the age of 18, and he’s written over a hundred books, including God Doesn’t Believe In Atheist, hell’s Best Kept Secret and Evolution, the Fairytale for Growing Up. Today we talk about his new book called So Many Lions, so Few Daniels Comfort is known for his controversial and confrontational approach to evangelism. He often uses the 10 Commandments to share the gospel. On today’s evangelism podcast, I ask Ray Comfort some difficult questions about his theology. Let’s hear how he answers my questions.
Evangelism Podcast Host (01:22):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:47):
Welcome to The Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Ray Comfort. He is a phenomenal YouTube evangelist, over 200 million views on his YouTube channel. He goes out on the streets and tells people about Jesus. Brother, comfort, thank you so much for being with me today.
Ray Comfort (02:13):
It’s an honor to be with you, Daniel. Thanks to having me on.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:16):
Man, I have learned so much from your ministry over the years. I’ve watched many of your YouTube videos. I’ve been watching you go out on the street and talking to, to people, uh, about the, the 10 Commandments. And, uh, you have just, uh, published a new book. It’s called So Many Lions, so Few Daniels. Now, you’ve published over a hundred books. What is unique about this one?
Ray Comfort (02:47):
Well, it’s, I think it’s a book for our time. We are living in very, very dark times. Let me tell you what inspired me to write the book besides God, A Hope. Um, it was a poster or a t-shirt put out by atheists. It was, uh, too many Christians, not enough lions. And I thought, how sick is that? That’s like saying too many blacks, not enough lynching ropes, too many Jews, not enough Nazis, uh, too many Christians, not enough lions. And that made me really mad. So an atheist inspired the book So Many Lions, so few Daniels, which is what we’ve got. We’re living in a dark time, a time of tremendous godliness, or godlessness, should I say, tremendous darkness. I was just reading this morning, we’ve had something like 37 mass shootings in the us, just this sheriffs, not even the end of the first month of the share.
(03:40):
Um, over 1300 people died through being shot in mass shootings. And it traces it back to traces itself, back to lawlessness. Uh, Jesus said, inequity shall unbound, which means lawlessness. There’s a forsaking of the 10 Commandments. And when you do that, forsake the fear of God. And if you don’t fear God, you can cover what you want, lie to whom you want, steal from whom you want. You can commit adultery, you can blaspheme God’s name, and you can kill people without qualms of conscience because your understanding of God is erroneous. So we need Daniels, uh, men and women of God who will step up to the plate, who will not who’ll be fearless and faithful. You think of what Daniel was. He was a man that didn’t care what the world thought. He wasn’t a man pleaser. Uh, they said, don’t praise flung as windows open, the Bible tells us and said, I don’t care what you think.
(04:30):
I only care what God thinks. And that’s the attitude that we must have as Christians. We don’t care what this world thinks in the sense we don’t want their praise. We want the smile of God. And if you look at what Daniel had, he had faith. That’s all he had. And I take great consolation on the fact that I am not tall. I can’t sing. I can’t dance. Um, there’s a lot of stuff that I was behind the door when the talent was given out, but I can have faith. Anyone can have faith. Doesn’t matter how tall or short you are at gifted, you are how you can jump, how much you can sing. You can have faith, and that’s what Daniel had. And that’s all it takes for God to use. You just trust him with all your heart. And that’s what we need Daniels to step up and be counted.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:11):
Well, since my first name is Daniel, I must say I give a hardy endorsement to this book. I think we do need more Daniels. And, uh, of course, growing up as a little boy, Daniel was always my hero, uh, being thrown into the lion’s den. And often when you go out and talk to people about Jesus, it feels like you are being thrown into a lion’s den because the people start to yell at you, cuss you out. They they have all these questions, and that’s something that you do on a regular basis. And so I was wondering if we could walk through a few scenarios of what you say to people when you’re out witnessing. And you have lots of these in the book, different interviews you have with people. But uh, let’s say you’re, you go out on the street in Huntington Beach and you meet a guy who, he’s got tattoos all over. He having a party, he wants to party, he’s got a, a beer in one hand, and he is cussing people out. What do you say to him about God?
Ray Comfort (06:16):
You know, I’m gonna share something with you. I’ve never shared with anyone because it just happened this morning. This morning. My daughter and a husband, Emils Wayne Ey, the president of our ministry were woken at 5:00 AM by a guy ringing the doorbell. He wearing a hoodie, was dark, then he came round to the window of their bedroom and just stood there. And my daughter was terrified. Her daughter was terrified, easy flung up in the window and says, what do you want? And you know what, it was a guy who had smelt smoke coming from their house. Their wiring had got something wrong with it, and he came and put that fire out. And so if, if someone wakes you at five o’clock in the morning, you’re gonna be kind of annoyed with them and till you smell the smoke, and suddenly that annoyance turns to absolute gratitude.
(07:04):
This guy became a hero. And so this morning, when I go around the local college, which I do twice a day, take my dog on a bike, I’m gonna say to someone, how would you feel if someone woke you up at five o’clock in the morning banging on your doorbell? You’d say, what, what? What does this guy want? He’s really annoying me. But when you smell the smoke, your annoyance will change to gratitude. So I’m gonna take you through the commandments and what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna be annoyed with me banging on your door. But as we go through, you’re gonna smell some smoke and it’s gonna change your attitude. And so when I meet someone with tattoos or somebody who’s a little scary, my agenda is to show him he’s in great danger. It’s not to convince him to give his heart to Jesus because he’s got something missing in his life. The fact is he is in danger of death seizing upon him and his sins dragging him to hell. And that horrifies me. And I want to alert him to his danger. And once he sees his danger, once that makes sense, that he’s in big trouble with the Lord, then the gospel will make sense. So that’s my agenda, and that’s why I’m not fearful because the lions have no teeth. They’re just gums,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:07):
<laugh>. And, and so you would often go straight to the 10 Commandments and, and take people through some of the 10 Commandments. Could could we, uh, role play and, and and, and talk through the, the way that you would
Ray Comfort (08:20):
Offer it? Sure. I’ve done this before with some other guy I used to do a television program with, so I can handle it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:26):
<laugh>. Okay. So, so come up and, and, and pretend like you’re talking to me and, and, uh, let’s, let’s go through what you often say about the 10 Commandments.
Ray Comfort (08:36):
Yeah, sure. Well, let’s do, uh, what I’ll do, what I’m, uh, what I do when I go to the, the local college, say, uh, Hey, would you like to go on YouTube?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:43):
Sure, let’s do it.
Ray Comfort (08:45):
Boy, that’s unusual. Most people say, what’s it about? What’s it about? So I say, it’s a channel over 200 million views. And, uh, I wanna ask you if you think there’s an afterlife, do you think there’s an afterlife?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:55):
Maybe? I don’t know. Who knows? I, I believe there’s an afterlife, but I I wanna play the part of the person that you’re witnessing.
Ray Comfort (09:02):
Yeah. You play the part of a nasty skeptic.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:04):
Yeah. So
Ray Comfort (09:05):
Do you think about it much? What, what, so let me ask you, what’s your name?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:08):
Uh, my name’s Daniel.
Ray Comfort (09:10):
Daniel. Do you think about death?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:12):
Well, I think everyone thinks about death.
Ray Comfort (09:15):
Are you afraid of dying?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:16):
Sure. I think everyone is.
Ray Comfort (09:19):
Yeah, that’s true. The bible actually says that, that every human being is haunted by the fear of death all their lifetime. And that, that, that’s a terrifying thing to think that death is gonna take you and take your loved ones, take a dog, take your grandma, and eventually take you. And it could even come today or tonight. Did you know the Bible tells us that God destroyed death? Did you know that?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:39):
Well, what, what if I don’t believe in the Bible?
Ray Comfort (09:43):
Well, that doesn’t matter. The Bible’s the worst world’s big, biggest selling book of all time. And it’s popular because it answers the great questions that humanity has. It tells us why we are alive, why we die, and what we can do about our biggest problem, death itself. Do you know what death is caused by? I don’t mean hit by a truck, but you dunno what the Bible says. Death actually is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:04):
What? What is death?
Ray Comfort (10:05):
Death is wages. God is paying you in death for your sins. The Bible says the wages of sinners death. Like a judge looks at a criminal that’s murdered multiple people. He says, you’ve earned the death sentence. This is your wages. This is what’s due to you. And Daniel’s sin is so serious in the eyes of a holy God, it’s not in our eyes, but in God’s eyes, it’s so serious. He’s given you the death sentence. The wages of sinner’s death. And your death will be, the ev will be evidence to you that God is deadly serious about sin. I got a question for you. For you, Daniel, do you think God is justified in giving you a death sentence? Are you that evil or do you think you’re a good person? Well,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:40):
You know, I don’t really sin that much. I mean, I’m a pretty good person. I I do what’s good. I, I’d like to, you,
Ray Comfort (10:47):
You said sin that much. What are you talking about? What, what much? You’re talking about you’re lusting after woman looking at pornography. Is that what you mean?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:54):
Well, um, I don’t wanna answer that question.
Ray Comfort (10:57):
<laugh>. So you’re gonna play the fifth. What does that say?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:01):
<laugh> Uhhuh. <affirmative>.
Ray Comfort (11:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Jesus said if you look at a woman in lust for who you commit adultery with her in your hearts. So obviously you’ve got red blood and your veins, and you do what every guy does and look at woman inappropriately. Well, the Bible says you committed adultery when you do that. Yeah. And so we’re beginning to smell the smoke. You know, I’m knocking on your door, making you feel uncomfortable, but the smoke is appearing. Have you lied and stolen?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:23):
Well, I, I mean, maybe a little white lie from time to time.
Ray Comfort (11:27):
What color was it?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:28):
Uh, oh. You know, a white lie. Not, not a serious lie. Just, just a little lie.
Ray Comfort (11:33):
That’s a little lie. Have you ever stolen something, something a little and white?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:36):
Uh, sure. I mean, you know, uh, I stole a pen at, at school one time from, from one of my friends.
Ray Comfort (11:43):
Yeah. The value of that which is steal is irrelevant. If you open my wallet and take $1 out, you’re as much a thief as if you took $15 out. And so, Daniel, oh, have you ever used God’s name in vain?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:55):
Well, beepity beep beep beep. <laugh> <laugh>.
Ray Comfort (12:00):
Do you know, you just confirmed the truth of the Bible when it says you’re an enemy of God in your mind, through wicked works, there’s no greater contempt you can show of someone than to use their name as a cuss word. And that’s what you’ve done on the name of God, the one that gave you life in a family and eyesight and hearing and all the blessings of this life. So here’s a summation. Let’s ever again smell the smoke. Daniel, you have told me you’re relying thieving blas, adult at heart, and you have to face God on judgment day. Are you gonna be innocent or guilty when he judges you by the commandments?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:31):
Well, I guess anyone who is judged by the commandments would say that they’re guilty,
Ray Comfort (12:38):
Are you going to heaven or hell?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:41):
Well, if you’re guilty, I guess God would send you to hell.
Ray Comfort (12:44):
Yeah. So we can smell the smoke. So I’m not your adversary banging on your door. I’m someone that cares about you and wants to see you save. The Bible actually likens what I’m doing to saving someone from fire. It says in the book of Jo, uh, Jude, others save with fear, pulling them, pulling them from the fire. You are so close to death in hell. And I’m trying to pull you to safety now. And then I preach the cross that Christ died for our sins, took the punishment for us, rose again on the third day. And I say, Daniel, you need to repent. Trust Christ cuz you can die tonight. And so often people say, yeah man, this is making me think.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:22):
Yeah, it’s, it’s so powerful. And especially I love appreciate the cross. Uh, that’s the, the, the core of the gospel message. Let let’s do a, a another scenario. Um, what would you say to atheists if you meet a a a girl who, uh, says that she’s an atheist, she doesn’t believe in God. And, uh, atheists actually have a nickname for you. They affectionately call you the, the banana man because of a, I don’t know
Ray Comfort (13:48):
If it’s affectionately <laugh>, they mockingly
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:51):
Mockingly and uh, you know, from an illustration that you gave, uh, about a banana. And so they’ve, uh, made fun of you for that. But it’s opened the door for you to share the gospel with many atheists. And, and so what are some of the things that you say to atheists to make them think about heaven and hell and about whether there really is a God?
Ray Comfort (14:13):
Well, there’s a very, very simple way to make atheist s backslide. You just have to ask this one question, and you have to be very clear what you mean by it. I say, so Frieda, you’re an atheist. She says, yeah. So tell me this, Frieda, do you really believe the, the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything, because that’s what an atheist defaults to it. Either God created everything or nothing, created everything. I’m not saying you believe there was nothing in the beginning. I’m saying you believe that nothing was the force that created flowers and birds and trees and puppies and kittens and seasons and fruits and all these things that we see around us were all created nothing, which is scientifically ludicrous. Is that what you believe? And she’ll say, well, well, I I really, I I don’t believe that nothing created things. So I’ll say, you’re not an atheist.
(15:02):
You’re an agnostic. You think something created everything just wasn’t the God of the Bible. She says, yeah, that’s what I believe. Something did create everything, but it just wasn’t the God of the Bible. So I said, let’s see if we can find out why you don’t want it to be the God of the Bible. And you find out that she’s living in fornication and lying and stealing and blaspheming. And it’s not an intellectual issue, it’s the moral issue. But it’s so important Daniel not to be condescending and, uh, to have a tone where, where your love is evident for this person. And your concern is evident because many years ago I was woken by a friend. The building that, that our ministry was in was, uh, on fire. And he called me at 6:00 AM woke me and said, Ray, the Regent Theater building’s on fire. And I believed because of his tone, because of the, the, the way he told me that it was on fire. And if we want sinners to believe us, we must have a caring tone. We mustn’t be cond or accusatory, but just say, Hey, I love you. I don’t want you to end up and help. Please think about what we’re talking about.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:05):
How do you show love to people as you’re, as you’re talking to them about God? Because sometimes there’s this perception of an evangelist being out there on the street corner with a megaphone just yelling at people and saying, you’re all going to hell. And it tends to turn people off. They, they stand, they mock it. And and I know if you’ve been mocked many times and confronted every different situation, but how do you turn that from, uh, machi to people understanding you’re really concerned for their eternal destiny?
Ray Comfort (16:41):
Yeah. Uh, I, i amate Jesus, uh, when he spoke to the Rich Un ruler, he used the moral law, the 10 Commandments. 10 commandments called the Moral Law. He used the 10 Commandments bring the knowledge of sin. When you do that, it makes hell reasonable. Remember, Paul preached to Felix and the Bible says he reasoned with him of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come. And Felix trembled, he trembled. Why? Because judgment made sense. So if you just yell at people from a distance and just say, you’re gonna hell, it doesn’t make sense. It’s just horrible. But if you open up those commandments and show sin is exceedingly sinful in the eyes of God, suddenly hell becomes reasonable. But that makes them tremble. That’s when they see your motives as motive is one of deep concern. You’re knocking on the door because the house is on fire.
(17:32):
And then that’s when they see that you really do care about them. And that’s when the gospel makes sense. So often, I, well not often, every time I witnesses someone, I give them a couple of $5, uh, gift cards. That is, that gives me great joy. Um, today I’ll go around and probably I’ll find five or I’m gonna sneeze. Please forgive me. No, I’m not. Five or six people will turn me down. Um, when I ask if they’ll come on camera and say, I’ll give you a couple of, uh, $5 in and out cards, which is the, the neatest, uh, burger place in Southern California. And they say, no, I still wanna do it. So that’s when I say, here’s the cards anyway. And they go, what? I didn’t do the interview. I said, no problem. I just really care about you. And I give ’em a little card with the channel and people just yell out, I’m gonna check your channel. I really am. Thank you so much for the cards. It changes everything. And the scripture says, so is the will of God that by your well, well-doing, you put the silence, the ignorance of foolish men. So it’s really good to have gift cards or something you can give to someone just to show that you are not caring about them just with lip surface. You really do care about them from your heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:41):
And your ministry has a lot of resources that people are able to, to give away. Uh, yesterday my son was enamored with your $1 million bill. And, uh, I was going to hold it up, but he took it to school this morning to go show some other boys the million dollar bill. And so your ministry, uh, living Waters has some, some great resources for people to, to give away to people different, uh, uh, ways to catch their attention and illusions and, and, and different little ways to, to present the gospel. They all bring people, uh, to the 10 Commandments. Um, I I have a couple of of tough questions about how you witnessed w would it be okay if I ask these these questions to you?
Ray Comfort (19:24):
Please do
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:25):
So, I’m an evangelist. I felt ever since I was very young that I was called to be an an evangelist. And so I’ve, I’ve, uh, spent my life telling as many people about Jesus as I can and studying evangelism and trying to become a, a, a better evangelist. And, and I have some challenges with the way that you start and some challenges with the way that you finish your conversations, right? And so, like the way that you, you start, you really emphasize the sinfulness of humanity instead of talking about the love of God. Bill Bright, who founded Campus Crusade for Christ, he often taught people to witness using the four spiritual laws. And he would start out by saying, “God loves you and he has a wonderful plan for your life.” And Romans 2:4 says, “it’s the goodness of God that draws men to repentance.” And just talked about the power of, of giving something to someone. And, and so, uh, you know, I I think it it in my theology, I I think in some ways it’s better to start with the goodness of God, the love of God, God’s the love the world that He gave his only son in, instead of focusing on the convincing people that they are sinners. And, and so what I I what what’s your response to, to those challenges?
Ray Comfort (20:52):
Okay, don’t let me forget Roman’s chapter two. Are these your convictions or are they just what you’ve heard?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:58):
Usually when I talk to people about Jesus, I start with, “Jesus is so good. He came to give us life and life more abundantly. He’s got a wonderful plan for your life. I I think people inherently believe that they’re sinners.
Ray Comfort (21:18):
Okay, let’s stop there so I can pick up what you’re saying cuz it’s so good. Yeah. Firstly, the Bible says there is none that understands. There’s none that sticks after God. It’s very important to imitate Jesus and do what Jesus did. And so whenever you see Jesus witnessing to someone who’s proud, arrogant, self-righteous, he always used the moral law to bring the knowledge of sin. And if it was someone who was humble of heart, like Nicodemus, who was a Jew that knew the law, it would give them grace. It’s very similar to a man who’s got a disease that’s gonna kill him, but he thinks he’s healthy. I would be an unwise doctor to give him the cure first because he’s not gonna appreciate and appropriate the the cure. He’s gonna say, I’m healthy. I don’t need your stupid cure. A wise doctor will show him x-rays. He’ll say, look at these x-rays, this poisonous seeping through your body. He wants to make the patient sweat to be concerned that his life is in danger. And when he says, well, what should I do? That’s when he gives him the cure. If he gives him the cure first, he is not gonna appreciate it nor appropriate it. And let’s go to the wonderful plan.
(22:27):
If you really think being a Christian is a wonderful plan, lean down to Stephen as he’s being stoned to death and say, part of God’s wonderful plan, or James, as his head is cut off with a sword, or Paul as he was beaten in stoned for his faith or the 12 apostles, 11 of which were murdered for their faith. Or read Fox’s book of martyrs and see that the wonderful plan isn’t things go better with Jesus. Jesus doesn’t give happiness, he gives righteousness. That’s what sinners need. If you really think God is a wonderful plan, I’m gonna give you a scenario. You’re on the thousandth, sorry, the hundredth story of the World Trade Center, September the 10th, 2001, the night before the World Trade Center. And as you look at the vasia faces before you, you know that every one of them is gonna die horrific and horrific deaths.
(23:24):
Some are gonna be burned alive with jet fuel. Others are gonna jump a hundred stories onto the unforgiving sidewalks of New York. Others will follow the building and their bodies will be so crushed they won’t find evidence of them. What are you gonna say to these people? Folks, God has a wonderful plan for your wife. You can’t say that to people who are about to die. No. Instead you’d say, please listen to me. The Bible says this appointed man wants to die. And after this, the judgment. And if you die in your sins, God’s gonna judge you by the perfect law. The Bible says that in Romans two, verse 12 and James two verse 12. That means if you’ve lusted after a woman, you’ve committed adultery in your heart. If you’ve lied all lies of their part in the lake of fire, no thief, no bless fe no adult woman here at God’s kingdom, you’re in terrible trouble.
(24:18):
You’ll end up in Helen at agrees my heart. But God provided a savior rose again on the third day, repent and trust in him. And the Bible promises you’ll pass from death to life. So that’s what I would say to someone if I, that’s what I’d say to a group at the World Trade Center and all around us are people who could die today, 150,000 people die every 24 hours. They die in their sins. They’re going to hell. They could die in just a horrific circumstances of the World Trade Center burned alive in a car when they’re driving home or crushed under a truck or diet of a terrible terminal disease like cancer. And so I can’t talk to him of a wonderful wife, a wonderful plan that God has in fact, bill bright repented of that false gospel. And his manager wrote a forward to my book, called God is a Wonderful Plan for Your Life.
(25:08):
Which, so Stephen, being stoned to death. Yeah, that’s, I’ve got a copy of it right here. Okay. And, uh, so Romans chapter two, the goodness of God leads us to repentance. If Paul was saying in Romans two, the goodness of God leads to repentance of just talk about God’s goodness, he wasn’t practicing what he preached. Because if you read that in context, that verse is wrapped in terrible wraths. If you read in context where he says, God, if you, you know, if you continue and with an impenitent heart, God will give you tribulation and anguish upon every soul you are storing. Um, you know, you are storing up wrath that is gonna be revealed on the day of wrath. And so it’s very important that we don’t have our own way of witnessing, but we go and see what did Jesus do? Rich unruly came to him and says, what can I do to inherit eternal wife?
(26:01):
Jesus didn’t talk about a wonderful plan. He instead says, why do you call me good? And he reproved his understanding of the word good. And then he said, you know, the commandments. And then he went through the commandments with him. Why? To bring the knowledge of sin. He talked before about people know they’re sinners. The apostle Paul didn’t know he was a sinner. This is what he said, I had not known sin, but by the law. It’s not within man’s heart to understand how sinful is, how sinful sin is until the law brings the knowledge of sin. And so for 10 years, I preached God as a wonderful plan for your wife. And I filled the church with false converts. 90% under that erroneous message fall away from the faith 90%. If you were selling a parachute and you said, this parachute works only 10% of the time you need to get outta the parachute business.
(26:58):
You don’t want 90% of those jumped who jump, uh, die wearing your parachute. So it’s very important we say, what does scripture say? Let’s not have modern evangelism’s traditions. But let’s see what the Bible says about how to bring people to the cross. We’re not out to get decisions. We’re out to see men have a knowledge of sin and understand the gospel because that’s what a good soil under good soil here understands the true convert and the parable of the, so someone who’s hears and understands. And what the law does is the school master helps sinner understand the gospel. Is that making any sense or am I just raving on?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:33):
Well, in 2 Corinthians 3:7, Paul calls the 10 Commandments a ministry of death and condemnation. And I s right, actually, I, I wrote a book about, uh, the grace of God and, and I, I like looking at God, uh, through the eyes of grace. I think the, the Bible reveals a, a God that that is full of grace. And, and it, I usually emphasize, um, pointing people to Jesus. You know, uh, John 12:32, Jesus said, “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men onto me.” And so I think the more
Ray Comfort (28:07):
People, what’s the next verse about Jesus? What’s the next verse?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:10):
Tell me
Ray Comfort (28:12):
This. He said, speaking of what death he should die. So when he says, if I be lifted up, he wasn’t giving us an evangelist principle. He was saying what death? He was gonna die. He was gonna die by the cross. That’s the context. The other thing, the administration of the law is under death. That’s its function. That’s why Jesus used it. That’s why Paul used it. It shows us we have no hope in our attempt to attain righteousness. That only hope we have is the gospel. And then it says, we’re sin bound much more to grace abound. If you want make a light shine, put it in darkness. If you want calvary to shine, put it against Sinai. Show what sinner is and say, look what God did for us. Christ died for us, but while we yet sin us. So again, no one’s gonna appreciate a cure unless he understands he’s got the disease.
(29:01):
And if you circumnavigate talking about the disease, you’ll create false converts that’ll join the church and fall away at which 90% do. So it’s very important, Daniel, you go back to scripture and say, what does scripture say? The law brings death. That’s what Paul said. The law, which I thought was unto life, brought know the commandment, which I thought was the Dana unto life brought death to me. That’s his function. It shuts us up with no hope. But to look up to the cross, it’s like those biting serpents that have spoken off in the book of numbers that Jesus referred to in John chapter three. He said, as Moses lifted up the serpent on the wilderness, so must the son a man be lifted up. Go back. What happened? There were biting serpents that caused them to look up to that, that cross or that poll was being held up. And as the biting ser serpents of the law that bring death to us, that cause us to look to Jesus on the cross, cause us to have hope in him. So please think about this. Have you ever heard teaching called Hell’s Best Kept Secret?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:02):
Uh, yes, I’ve I’ve heard you teach on it. Um, live actually. And then I’ve got your, was this your first book that you wrote?
Ray Comfort (30:10):
No. No, it wasn’t. No, but it was one of the most important books. The first book was published in the us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:16):
I mean, I think it’s one of your, your most significant messages that you’re well known for.
Ray Comfort (30:20):
Yeah. And have you read God as a wonderful plan for your life as yet?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:24):
Yes, sir. I’ve, I’ve read it.
Ray Comfort (30:26):
Okay. Really good. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:27):
And, and, and, uh, you know, I I I think that it’s easier to draw people to God by talking about the goodness of God. Instead of talking, it’s unbiblical about the, the sinfulness of, of humanity. It’s not
Ray Comfort (30:39):
Biblical. It’s not biblical.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:41):
What, what, what do you,
Ray Comfort (30:41):
That’s what you need to look at. Is it biblical
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:43):
John 10:10 where Jesus said, I’ve come to give life and life more abundantly.
Ray Comfort (30:48):
Okay, let me address that, Paul, when he said, I’ve come to give life and life more abundantly, that word just means full. It doesn’t mean happy, it means full if possible. Paul had an abundant life. It was filled with beatings, stoning, shipwreck, imprisonment, and martyrdom. So that’s what he was saying. You read the book of Acts, they had a full abundant life. They were thrown in prison, they were tortured and 11 them died. So to say to people, God has a wonderful, happy life for you, it’s just gonna be a bed of roses without the thorns, is to create a wrong motive for people coming to Christ. And it, it’s filling the church with false converts. It’s not looking at what the scriptures say and what Jesus did and what Paul did. In Romans chapter two, Paul says, you who say you shall not steal, do you steal?
(31:36):
You say, you shall not commit adultery. Do you commit adultery? When Nathan stood before David, who had committed adultery and murder, he had violated the commandments. He didn’t talk about a wonderful plan. He said, why have you despised the commandment of the Lord? And so we need to, as I say, imitate scripture. Say, what did Jesus do? Cuz we don’t wanna be false witnesses. Say something that’s not true and fill the church with false converts because we are doing the work of the enemy rather than the work of God. And this is what I’ve been saying for 40 years, and people who have put into practice what Jesus did in, uh, mark 10 verse 17, and used the law to bring the knowledge of sin and forsaken the traditional way of evangelism, have found it to be biblical and and to be true, to open up sinner’s minds as to what we should do when it comes to challenging people to come to Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:25):
I also wanted to talk to you a little bit about bringing people to a, a decision. Like when you were running through your scenario a little bit earlier, you, you said, why don’t you think about that? And you, you often finish by saying, why don’t you think about that? Instead of asking people to, to pray, uh, a a prayer of, of salvation, um, why don’t you ever close the deal? I mean, if, if I give you a scenario where, uh, somebody comes into a car lot and Ray the car salesman and is there and says, oh, you have such an ugly car, your windows won’t roll down, your air conditioner doesn’t work. And look, you’ve got a big scrape on the side of your car. If the salesman doesn’t ever actually help them get into a new car, the salesman wouldn’t be a a very good salesman.
(33:16):
He would just leave them going around feeling very bad that they have an ugly car. But a good salesman will put them into a brand new car, upgraded all the features and options and everything. And so it, it seems to me that in some ways that, uh, you don’t close the deal. Why don’t you bring people to a point of decision? And, and I think it is very biblical to bring people to a point of decision in, in Deuteronomy, you know, uh, Moses says, I set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life. He’s encouraging them to choose to follow God, to choose a way of life. And so in your, in your witness, then why don’t you bring people to a point of, of choosing whether they’ll, they’ll follow Jesus.
Ray Comfort (34:06):
That’s what I do. But I don’t choose for them. I know you see, your, your methodology will be dictated by your theology. If you have a wrong theology about God and salvation, you’ll think that you bring people to salvation. When the Bible says salvation of the Lord, there’s nothing in the Bible that condones the modern sinner’s prayer where I say to someone, pray after me. Uh, dear God, I’m a sinner. That’s like saying to someone who’s committed, adultry, honor’s wife. Let’s go back to your wife. Knock on the door, door opens and say, okay, I want you to apologize to your wife. Repeat an apology after me. Dear wife, I’m really sorry. Dear wife, I’m really sorry I committed adultery. Please forgive me. That’s crazy. The sorrow should come from his heart and it should not be his words, it should come from his heart.
(34:54):
I see no evidence anywhere in scripture of anyone praying a sinner’s prayer, a prayer like that. And so I don’t imitate it. I say, Lord, you save sinners. I don’t save sinners. I share the gospel with them and I’ll leave it between them and God. And I’m not gonna manipulate them through any psychological manipulation or clever wording. I’m not a car salesman. I’m not selling cars. I wanna be a true and faithful witness and see people soundly saved and not produced false converts like I used to do when I ran around praying the sinner’s prayer of my surfing buddies. Does that make sense?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (35:30):
Absolutely. I I I very much appreciate your time. Um, if you’re listening, I really encourage you to get a of the new book, so Many Lions, so Few Daniels, it’s a great book, um, brother Comfort. If someone wants to know more about your ministry, uh, how can they find out more about you? What’s your website?
Ray Comfort (35:50):
Living waters.com. And they can go to YouTube and watch, um, uh, YouTube videos. And, uh, it’s, uh, um, a lot of stuff on Living waters.com free. We’re giving away 5 million of this gospel track, free of charge and, uh, no shipping charge. We’re, we’re paying for the shipping and giving away the tracks free. And they can see about that on our Living waters.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:13):
Well, thank you so much. You know, despite some of maybe our theological differences, I have tremendous respect for your ministry. I
Ray Comfort (36:23):
Don’t know why, because you think I’m doing it wrong. You shouldn’t have respect for me. You shouldn’t promote my books or the website because I’m doing it unbiblically.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (36:32):
I’m, I am for anybody that goes out there and talks to people about Jesus. And, and so I very much honor you and the many people that, that you have, uh, got to think about the the things of God. Um, I I do have one more question. The name of your TV show is The Way of the Master. When Jesus walked on the Earth, his way was to heal lots of sick people. And so I come from a, a spirit empowered background. Often in our services, we’ll pray for sick people to be healed. And, and often people’s, many people say that they, they receive healing. If you really want to follow the way of the master do you think that God will heal people as a way to bring people to Jesus?
Ray Comfort (37:24):
Of course, I pray for people that are sick, <laugh>, obviously. Um, but the way of the master is called the way of the master because it’s what Jesus did with the rich young ruler. He used the commandments to bring the knowledge of sin. He didn’t pray for his sickness or bring up sickness. He brought a knowledge of sin using those 10 commandments so that he would understand his sinfulness, that he had violated God’s law. So that’s what I do. Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Paul says in Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God to salvation. And so you can pray for sick people, that’s great, but they must hear the gospel because without the knowledge of sin, there’s no understanding of the cross, there’s no understanding of the cross, there’s no salvation. So make sure that you don’t just pray for someone so saw wrist or whatever, or a headache or whatever, that you give them the gospel and the biblical gospel, not the erroneous gospel of God as a wonderful plan for your life, cuz that has done great damage to the cause of the gospel and filled the church with false converts.
(38:29):
So anyway, I’ve gotta go. I’ve got a gospel to preach. It’s close to 11, and I’m gonna go around to the school and a local college and witness to people who are going to hell. And that grieves my heart.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (38:41):
That’s wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I really appreciate it.
Evangelism Podcast Host (38:47):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more Is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? Proof God is real. Daniel King shows you God is there and he cares for you. Plus how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:50):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (41:10):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Ben King | The Circuit Riders Come to Tulsa
The original circuit riders were Methodist preachers who rode on horses from town to town to preach the Gospel. Today, there is a new generation of Circuit Riders who are dedicated to serving Jesus. They are part of Youth With A Mission (YWAM) and they are bringing a big team to Tulsa, OK to tell people about Jesus. Today we talk with Ben King about what they hope to see God do in T-Town.
Find Out More About the Circuit Riders: https://circuitriders.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
The original circuit writers were Methodist preachers who rode on horses from town to town to preach the gospel. Today, there is a new generation of circuit writers who are dedicated to serving Jesus. They are part of youth with a mission, and they’re bringing a big team to Tulsa, Oklahoma, to tell people about Jesus. Today we talk with Ben King about what they hope to see God do in T-Town.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:02):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Ben King. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ben King (01:13):
Excited to be here. Um, yeah, so, uh, excited just to talk about evangelism and got to hear a little bit of your heart and what you’re doing. So, um, yeah, just honored to be here and you led so many people to Jesus. So I think it’s just, um, awesome to talk about Jesus meeting our generation with the gospel and so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:30):
Love it. Amen. So, Ben King is with the Circuit Writers, which is a YWAM ministry that is passionately following after Jesus Christ and calling other people to follow Jesus Christ. Now, the name circuit writers goes back to some of the original preachers here in America. Ben, tell me who were the circuit writers?
Ben King (01:54):
Yeah, so the circuit writers were kind of these radical, uh, missionaries, uh, of evangelists. Um, they were kind of these zealous group of young people that came. Most of ’em came over from the uk. Some of the original preachers like John Wesley & Francis Asbury was actually commissioned here by John Wesley. And, uh, they were really known for their zeal for the gospel. And then the Frontiers of America, what would happen is they would ride around largely on horseback from town to town. And, uh, the history books tell us that they would ride through towns and they would basically shout things to the whole town, like 6:00 PM we’re meeting at the courthouse or wherever they chose to meet. They would pick up public common area and ride through town, say, Hey, we’re meeting here. And then they would just stand up and boldly proclaim the gospel, call people to be saved.
(02:44):
Um, the testimonies are that as, um, well, Asbury Wesley was doing this in England for a number of years, and at one point in one of his meetings, he, uh, he said, who will go to the Frontiers of America? And this young man named Francis Asbury, uh, answered the, came to America and he started training preachers in America. He actually came, uh, during the Revolutionary War at first. So he, uh, he came and many people when he first came to America were like, this guy’s a spy. Like, so his first year in America, he had to hide. They said he would hide in this little room. And, uh, and then after the Revolutionary War started preaching and raising up preachers, I think he, uh, the history tells us that he personally, um, commissioned and trained about 700 preachers to do what he did. And they would all ride, all of these preachers would ride from town to town, preach the gospel. Um, they saw movement all across America, thousands getting saved, coming into the church, and then planting churches as well. And so, uh, really was this inspirational movement of mostly young preachers. Actually most of them, uh, traveled so intensely that they died by the age of, uh, 33. So Francis Asbury specifically, he wrote an average of 6,000 miles a year. And, uh, he would preach everywhere it says courthouses, public houses, tobacco houses, fields, public squares, wherever people would assemble to heal. To hear him, it said, uh, that he would preach. And, um,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:10):
I think it’s really incredible neat to hear the story of Francis Asbury because just in the last few weeks there have been reports of revival happening Yes. At Asbury University. Yes. Which is named after this great preacher Francis Asbury. And, and so as you mentioned, he rode over 6,000 miles every year that wasn’t riding in a car or on a plane that was a horseback. On a horseback. And he would have his Bible in one hand. He’d have his theological book in the other he’d be writing Yeah. And studying. And then he’d get to a town, he’d call all the people together, he would minister to them, plant a church in that area, and, and then he would do a circuit. He would come back and, and, and, uh, he would go to the next town, plant another church, and, and tell he had a bunch of churches going.
(05:00):
Then he’d go in this circuit writing from, from church to church. Yes. And so over the course of his lifetime, it’s estimated that Asbury traveled over 300,000 miles and we have his journals. So he delivered over 16,500 sermons. And so they called him, uh, you know, they called, uh, the Apostle John, uh, camel knees cuz his, he prayed so much. Yeah. I think we should call Asbury Camel Butt because by the time he <laugh> traveled all that way on his, on horseback, he probably had some serious callouses. So, uh, by when, when Asbury arrived in America, there were 600 Methodists in the entire country. Yes. And by the time he died, there were over 214,000 members. Incredible. Incredible. From 600 to 214,000, one of the greatest revivals in history. And I, the question that our generation is crying out and asking God is, can something like this happen again?
Ben King (06:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think absolutely. I think we’re seeing it at Asbury College. You know, and this is a continuation of Francis Asbury’s legacy in many ways. Um, and you know, the Hunger, they had about 20,000 people. The city shut down, the city’s made for I think, uh, maximum of like 10,000. And so, um, definitely Gen Z is hungry for this kind of movement and revival and this experience of the gospel where people are getting saved, miracles are breaking out. Um, so I would say absolutely yes. And, uh, and not just on the Christian campuses like Asbury, but we’ve been traveling to secular campuses and we find the same hunger on the secular campuses where people are wanting the gospel. So.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:46):
And so you are with Circuit writers, it’s a ministry that is part of ywam, but you have hundreds of young people that are joining. Tell me, what does circuit writers do?
Ben King (07:01):
Yeah, so we’re, uh, we’re based outta Huntington Beach, California. Um, we started in 2011, really inspired by these, uh, early circuit writer preachers like John Wesley Asbury. Um, and so we travel to, uh, college campuses and high school campuses, but we also do inner city events. Um, really our, our heart is just to preach the gospel and, uh, really anywhere people would hear us, just like the early, uh, circuit riders. And so we, uh, yeah, I’m actually in the middle of a tour right now, going to, uh, secular campuses and posting up in the student union gathering students and just preaching the gospel. Um, but yeah, circuit Riders is primarily to reach, uh, our generation with the gospel. Um, and we’re focusing on college and high school campuses, but not limited to that. But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:44):
Yeah. And so you’ve come here to Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is why you’re with me today. And you are planning an outreach here in Tulsa? Yes, and so we were just had a meeting where we’re talking about several different outreaches that are going to take place. Uh, we’re going to go partner with, uh, teen Challenge and, and bridging hunger and, and give away food in one neighborhood. And the circuit writers are gonna come and help us out with that. And then, uh, some of my interns are planning another outreach that they’re calling, uh, glow for Jesus, and they’re going to take some glow sticks and going downtown Tulsa and we’re gonna pass out the glow sticks and talk to all the people in downtown Tulsa around all the bars on a Friday night. Uh, we fe and I’m just excited that circuit writers is coming here because Tulsa still has a lot of people that need Jesus. Even though that we have great ministries here and great churches, there’s still people right here in Tulsa that need Jesus and Yeah. And this is all over America.
Ben King (08:43):
Yeah, I, I mean, I think the greatest misconception is as I’ve gone to, you know, we’ve been going to a lot of campuses in the Bible Belt and in the southern states of America. And I find that a lot of Christians in these places are blind to the reality of the need cuz they kind of have this assumption. Uh, most people around me are Christian. And I find as we go out and do evangelism in all of these places, that many people are waiting to hear the gospel. And, and actually there are people all throughout the south who have never heard the gospel. And so I think even in a place like Tulsa, like, um, you know, we met a young man a couple days ago who was, uh, he was, uh, involved in a gang. He was in drugs. And as I shared the gospel with him, he said, I’ve never heard Jesus talked about and forgiveness and the blood of Jesus talked about in this way. And he ended up giving his life to Christ and getting saved. And we pray for him to be filled with the Holy Spirit. So I think a hundred percent there’s need all around us. Um, and I think as Christians, we have to, even in America wake up to that need and be aware of our calling to evangelism and to share the gospel in these places to these people. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:46):
So let’s talk a little bit about the circuit writers. How do people join? How do they become a part? And then what are some of the core beliefs in the culture that you try to create in circuit writers?
Ben King (10:00):
Yeah, so, uh, we run schools every year, kind of similar to ywam, uh, discipleship Training School. It’s called a DTS Discipleship Training School. And, uh, they’re either, uh, they’re about seven to eight months long and you go through three months of training and then you go out and actually share the gospel. So it’s a very, uh, empowering model where we’re really believing our generation, um, is called to evangelism. So it’s mostly focused on, um, you know, our Gen Z Age group. Um, and, uh, we, yeah, so we invite people to our schools. So that’s one way to, you can join, you can just go to circuit writers.com, apply for one of our schools, and there’s more information about all that there. Um, but really our heart is, um, yeah, to see people come to Christ. So one of the primary things we’ve been realizing this year is that, uh, we want to, uh, share the gospel across college campuses and, and high schools in the cities, but also equip a generation to carry the gospel. Um, and I think, so evangelism is kind of at the core of what we do. Um, acts of service in the city, some of our core cultures, like our founder, uh, his name is Brian Brent and he passed away in 2000, uh, about it two years ago now. So yeah, I
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:09):
Never got to meet him, but I’ve heard such amazing things Yes. About Brian. And it was really sad when he went to heaven. Yeah. So
Ben King (11:15):
I was actually here in Tulsa when he passed. Um, we were doing an event at O R U, um, but just, he was incredible man of humility. I think some of the things that we would always say about Brian is like, he was such a, he was so happy I got to live with him for a couple months and with his family, he was so happy and lighthearted and joyful. But at the same time, Carrie, this just this edge of conviction, um, and the fear of the Lord. And, and, you know, so he, he wrote these manuals called the Freedom Manual, the Cultureship Manual, which kind of lists out the core cultures that we, uh, carry in circuit writers. One of them is like the culture of the Radical Servant, where Brian would, uh, just teach the, like the, the core goal in Christianity is to lay your life down and serve other people.
(11:57):
It’s not to, you know, make your name great or get a title or even to do something massively impactful, but it is to lay your life down and radically serve others. Um, and just he would talk about the joy of that. You know, he made up a song called Radical Servant that he’s sang in a sermon and we all started singing it. And um, so, um, and so, so many of these cultures in these manuals, which you can also buy online on our website, um, were just, they kind of set the foundation for what we carry as a movement. And, um, really for me as a young man getting saved at 17, joining the movement when I was 18, I’m 25 now. Um, some of the things that Brian would, would lead and teach, um, for me were so, uh, culture shifting and foundational even in my early Christian walk.
(12:41):
So, um, Brian definitely, you know, a lot of these things, obviously Brian led by the Holy Spirit. A lot of these cultures can be largely accredited to what he carried and steward even through, you know, his wife Christie. And, um, she’s still, you know, doing lots of ministry. But, um, yeah, so, uh, it’s definitely been since his past, it’s been different in our ministry. But definitely seeing the, his legacy walked out through all of the leaders that he raised up, cuz a foundation in RC Riders has been look for leaders, pour into the leaders and raise up the leaders and the places that we’re going to. So let’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:13):
Talk about evangelism and the circuit writer’s heart for evangelism. You’re starting to branch out and you just recently went to Burundi and you have a heart to go to other nations and you’d like to see a harvest of souls all over the world.
Ben King (13:29):
Yes. So we’re, uh, we’re just starting this. We’re calling it just carry the love festivals and um, you know, doing what you do in a much smaller way in the early beginnings. Um, but uh, cuz I know you’ve led millions to Jesus around the world and just have this incredible heart of love for Jesus. But, um, yeah, for us, we’re just, you know, group of, uh, 20 year olds and we’re, uh, really a believing God has led us in faith to do these festivals. We did the first one last year in Burundi, and it was a week long where we did most of the week, was training in evangelism and sending out the locals. So we trained about 700 local burundians and, um, here’s how you share the gospel and win souls and then bring people into the local church. And then we sent them out and, uh, in the week about five to, it was between five and 6,000 people gave their lives to Jesus.
(14:16):
Um, I just got a testimony actually of a young man who got trained in one of those trainings, uh, a couple months ago. Um, so this was, the event was about a year ago. A couple months ago, he went out and, uh, he left his city, went to a small town and began to preach the gospel. And he personally led 800 people to Jesus, a a young burundian man who came to one of our evangelism trainings and was inspired. So, um, our heart is to raise up the local evangelists and really do it together. Um, and so in Tulsa, uh, we’re planning that for April 21st, we’re doing a larger outdoor gathering and, uh, we’re looking at doing some, we’re in the downtown area, um, but we’re gonna do a week of outreach as you know, like you said, partnering with you guys, all these other ministries, um, to reach the loss. So, um, yeah, we’re doing eight, uh, different locations this year and just kind of, uh, you know, going after it in faith and we’ll see what happens. We’re really believing this year would be a spark of faith that we could continue in the years to come. Um, but there’s about five. What
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:12):
Are some of the other cities that you’re planning to go to this year?
Ben King (15:14):
So, uh, let me see if I can list them all. So we got Budapest, um, that, uh, my wife and I will go to, we’re doing, uh, uh, Louisiana, lsu, and then we’re doing, uh, Tijuana. Um, so, uh, I got about four, uh, we’re doing, uh, at, actually one of our core gatherings at Spark Circuit Riders was, um, at usc. And so we’re going back to usc. We’re doing a lawn in the middle of campus, so some of them are campuses and some of them are cities. And then, uh, we’re going back to Burundi again, um, for round two in Burundi, um, the uk. And then, uh, I think I covered all of ’em. I might have missed one.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:48):
Now, a big part of what you do is worship and in the circuit writers you actually have some really amazing worship leaders. Yes. Tell me about how worship and evangelism can work together.
Ben King (15:58):
Yeah, so, uh, o obviously we have Lindy in our movement who, uh, is incredibly well known and, and really a lot of her music was, uh, it was different because it had this edge of like, the great commission in it. So it was, uh, a lot of her songs were like, you know, every Nation, every Soul was one of her songs. And so, uh, it just kind of included this aspect of like, we need to go and share the gospel. Um, which has been massively inspirational to our, you know, really to the church and across the world. But she, uh, wrote these songs and, and so, uh, they really have this aspect of like, go, uh, and share the gospel, win the loss. And what we really believe in circuit Riders is, um, you know, wor the first time worship is mentioned in the Bible is it’s uh, when Abraham sacrifices his son Isaac.
(16:45):
Um, and so, uh, worship is obedience to God. And so I think, uh, obviously he singing songs, we’re gonna do that for eternity and it’s gonna be beautiful and amazing and it is now and we do that. Um, but one of the ways that we get to worship now, um, as well is our evangelism becomes an act of worship cuz it’s an expression of our love to Jesus. Um, and so I think combining, you know, the songs and the singing and the worship, this pure heart to Jesus with the proclamation of the gospel is perfect cuz it’s just a, it’s a continuation of like, Hey, we just worship for two hours now we’re gonna go out and find people that are lost and win them. It’s just a continuation of we’re expressing our love for Jesus through bold proclamation of the gospel and through singing songs. So, um, yeah, that’s what I would say.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:31):
I really love your heart for God. And you’re still young, but you are radically committed to following Jesus. What would you say to a young person who is looking for, for purpose and and looking for, for meaning? What would say to them to, to bring them closer to Jesus?
Ben King (17:53):
Yeah, I would just say run after Jesus with your whole heart. I mean, I was 17 when I got saved. I was addicted to drugs, alcohol, pornography. My whole life was a broken mess. I contemplated suicide, pack of cigarettes a day. One night I overdosed and a few nights later I came home and I prayed and there was this incredible, uh, sense of the presence of God that filled my room that night. I fell on my knees, began to weep, and, uh, three months later got baptized, totally set free from drugs, alcohol, pornography, all of those things. And so for seven years now, I’ve been walking in this incredible freedom where, um, and when I first got saved my, I just started going to like Walmart in these places and just telling people like Jesus, I didn’t even know the gospel. I was just like, Jesus loves you cuz I was so, my heart was so satisfied and in love with Jesus.
(18:37):
And so I think, uh, come into the presence of God. Uh, Christianity is not, uh, a religion per se. It’s a, it’s a heart that has drawn so near to God that it’s so deeply satisfied. There’s an overflow of love for other people from that place. So, um, yeah, I would just say by the, you know, come to Jesus and invite the Holy Spirit into your heart, into your mind, into your soul, into every area of your life and be fully satisfied. And from that place of deep satisfaction in your personal life, having found everything you need in Jesus alone, um, go out and tell others about him and, uh, you’ll, you’ll experience joy that you maybe, uh, having up to this point. Some of my greatest joy has been watching other people receive Christ just like I did when I was 17. So, yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:26):
Well, Ben, you have a great last name. Your last name is Key. Yeah,
Ben King (19:30):
We have the same last name.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:31):
Maybe we’re related somewhere. I don’t know <laugh>, but it is a good last name. So it’s, uh, such an honor to have you on the Evangelism podcast. Thank you for being with me today.
Ben King (19:39):
Thanks so much for having me.
Evangelism Podcast Host (19:40):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real, you’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen to good people? In proof God is real. Daniel King shows you God is there and he cares for you. Plus how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:43):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:04):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Anthony Greco | The Gospel of Jesus…is Jesus
In today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, I am joined by pastor and evangelist Anthony Greco to discuss his journey to becoming an evangelist. Greco shares his powerful testimony of encountering Jesus and feeling called to share the Gospel with others. He talks about how he was inspired by the story of evangelist T.L. Osborn and decided to travel to India to see if miracles really happened. Greco shares how he witnessed miracles at a Peter Youngren festival and how they deepened his faith in God.
Check out Anthony Greco’s Website: https://www.calgarylifechurch.com/
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, pastor Anthony Greco. Thank you so much for being with me on the Evangelism Podcast. It’s
Anthony Greco (00:12):
Just an honor to be here with you and been following you for quite a number of years. Heard some amazing things, and we have a lot of mutual friends, and appreciate what you’re doing for the cause of Christ around the world.
Evangelist Daniel King (00:22):
Well, thank you. You are a pastor here in Calgary, Alberta. Yep. And you are also an evangelist. Yes. And so tell me about how you got started as an evangelist.
Anthony Greco (00:35):
<Laugh>. Well, well, you know, I gave my life to Christ in 1982. Born in a very strong, devout Catholic family, and had an encounter with Jesus. When I was 18, I was in a trailer counting my beer money to see how drunk I could get with my drinking buddies. And his roommate came in and opened up his Bible and shared Christ with me. And five minutes later, I was on my knees and I accepted Jesus. And it was it was a powerful moment where I literally felt, you know, something just lift off my life. The lights came on and, and I was experiencing this, this presence of Jesus. And, you know, I had never experienced anything like that. And I, I remember, I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry, but on the inside I was like, this is real. He’s alive. And I heard a voice on the inside of me say, yeah I’m real. And you’re gonna tell your generation, you know, I’m real. Something to that effect. You know how when God speaks to you, you kind of interpret that it wasn’t like an audible voice, but it was so undeniable. And so that’s how it started. And then someone put some Teal Osborne material in my hand, and it just resonated. I couldn’t put it down. And so
Evangelist Daniel King (01:44):
And so, because of Tia Osbourne’s story of going to India, you decided to go to India and test it out to see if it really worked. Yeah. Yeah. I, and so what happened?
Anthony Greco (01:53):
Okay, so I go to India, and so there’s I, I go to New Delhi and I see these posters everywhere. Come see the miracles of Jesus, the Blind Sea, the deaf here, the lame walk, thousands here, the good news, Jesus heals regardless of Casre religion, Canadian evangelist Peter Yare. And I thought, v I mean, my first thought was, are you allowed to advertise? Like that isn’t that presumption. But anyway, I ended up meeting him. And so he, you know, I, I just said, Hey, I’m from Cranbrook, bc and I said, I’ve heard of you and never met you, but I’d like to help. What can I do? And he, he says, well, you got a good camera there. Why don’t you take pictures of the miracles that they happen? And then he looked at my, my, my, my traveling partner, rod Harrison says, and you, you record them as they happen.
(02:37):
I said, yes. So we left that meeting. We went back to our hotel room, and we burst out laughing, like, like he was so matter of fact, and I mean, I believed in the mir, in Mir the miraculous, you know, but I’d never seen a miracle. I mean, maybe a sore knee or a sore elbow, or, but I’d never seen blind eyes open, you know, or deaf ears. And so I thought, all right. So that first night I show up at stadium and big open field, and there’s, you know, couple thousand people that first night. And Peter begins to preach, presenting Jesus, and you could just feel the atmosphere, get charged with faith and possibility. He gives the alter call and, you know, scores of people run forward and dust is coming up. And I’m like, I, I never seen that. And then he began to command miracles to happen.
(03:27):
And this is what I was waiting for. So I got the camera and I’m ready. And you know, he did it in categories, which right away I was disappointed, Daniel, I thought you don’t do in categories. I think I was, I think I was looking for something spectacular and sensational. You know, I I, and I thought once I saw that, that I would be transformed, that it wouldn’t, I would instantly have faith. I was looking for something, some kind of, of a religious experience that would fit into my frame of reference, or not reference, but I, what I would imagined. It starts with the deaf, commanding deaf spirits to come open, come out and blind eyes to open and cripples. And I’m, I’m watching this and I’m, I’ll never forget this little girl who had never walked and beautiful purple plaid dress on. And her father had wonderful Sikh man, you know, beard and turban, and he’s got tears running down his eyes onto his beard, onto his, his vest that he was wearing a sweater vest and big wet spots. And he’s laughing and crying, and his little girl who had never walked is walking back and forth, and he’s holding his big belly and laughing and crying. And he’s like, look what Jesus has done. Look what Jesus has done. And there was so many miracles that night, Daniel. I didn’t believe it.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:44):
I you saw it with your own eyes and you still didn’t believe
Anthony Greco (04:46):
It. I didn’t believe it. It was like water off a duck’s back. So I go back to the Y M C A where I was staying on in, in New Delhi and Dicing Road, and, and I was, that whole night I tossed and turned, I ended up getting on the balcony, and I’m crying out to God. And I said, God, obviously Peter Youngren was in really fine form, and Jesus, you were awesome as always. But what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I believe what I saw? I always said, if I see it, I’ll believe it. And it really comes down to, you know, and, and this is what I understood that night after wrestling, I realized that so much of my Christianity was in the realm of my, in, in was shaped by my, by my worldview. And in the West, it’s such a, a worldview shaped by logic and reason.
(05:29):
Well, it was back then. Now it’s about feelings. But that’s a whole nother, nother story. But back then, it was so much about you know, if I can taste it, if I can measure it, if I can touch it, then I’ll accept it as a reality. And I understood that night that my worldview was very much a natural worldview over in India and different parts of the world, as you well know, there’s a supernatural worldview. And so when I understood that, you know, you know Christ, you know, you know, the natural mind receives not the things of God. I I I will never be able to figure, download God into my brain. He’d literally blow your mind. But yet our spiritual capacity, Christ lives on the inside of us. And I understood that night that my, the spiritual reality of the new creation, that capacity to believe in no God is far beyond my intellect. And so in the West, we’ve elevated reason and logic above the place of simple childlike faith and spiritual realities. And so that night, I repented of my heartness of heart, asked Jesus to help me and begin to really able to appreciate and not be critical and cynical about the miracles that I saw.
Evangelist Daniel King (06:35):
And since you first connected with Pastor Peter Youngren, you helped to organize some of the big gospel festivals mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that he’s done in, in different parts of the world. And, and even till today, you’re, you’re continuing to, to work with him. So, so tell me about some of the adventures. What, what comes to mind of the, these different countries you’ve gone to and what God has done?
Anthony Greco (06:57):
Well in the, in the early days, so I, I’m working in Cranbrook. I’m a manager of a pizza hut. And I would, I would save up my money and then, you know, when I had money, I’d phone Peter and say, where are you going? You know, and then I’d, I’d go in advance and help set up. And so one day, the, we were watching the news, and so he lived in eastern Canada, in Toronto area, and I lived in Bridge Columbia while the Soviets, you know, they invade Afghanistan and, and millions of Afghan refugees begin to pour over the border into Pakistan. So Peter calls me and he says Anthony, you know, did, are you watching the news? I said, yeah. I said, it’s amazing. And he says, wow, the Afghans have never been reached with the gospel. He goes, that’s one of the last strongholds of darkness. We need to go there. And I said, okay, what do you wanna do? And he says, well, let’s go to pva, right by the Kira Pass and let’s, you know. And he says, can you go in advance and set it up for me? I said, sure,
Evangelist Daniel King (07:44):
Sure, no problem. Why not? You didn’t know what was impossible.
Anthony Greco (07:47):
I didn’t know. So I went and so I meet with all the pastors there. Now, when I was there was the same time that Osama Bin Laden was in pva, working on behalf of the cia, getting support from the, from the CIA to buy stingers and mules and weapons. And so the KGB was in the city setting off bombs in the marketplace, trying to force the government to push the Afghan refugees back into the refugee camps. Cause when they were coming into the city, they were getting finances, they were getting arms. And so it was chaos. So I’m there meeting with all the bishops and priests and pastors from every imaginable spectrum of Christianity, telling them what we want to do. And they’re like, you are crazy. There’s bombs going off. You’re gonna get us all killed. You don’t understand what it is to be a minority and a Muslim majority.
(08:32):
And, and so they, they forced me. They said, now you’re gonna call Pastor Peter Youngren and tell ’em to cancel the meetings. Cuz the previous 36 hours, I think it was six or nine bombs had gone off in the marketplace. So I got all the bishops and priests and pastors in a, in a house, and I’m on the, you know, the telephone. We didn’t have, we didn’t have cell phones or internet or fax machines at that day. I called Peter and I explained the situation and he just yells back and he goes, Anthony, tell them I’m coming. And he hung up the phone. I mean, it was like the air Manuel, the air was sucked out of that room. And they were just so despondent when Peter arrived. And we saw, and then, I mean, the first miracles were among, we had a lot of the Afghans experience. We had two interpreters. So we were speaking in [inaudible] and saw amazing miracles predominantly among the Muslims. And I remember going to the Bible Society and buying every piece of scripture they had. And we gave it to all those Muslim that were demanding Bibles and scriptures. It was, it was fantastic to see.
Evangelist Daniel King (09:32):
Let’s talk about power evangelism. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, why is it important for people to see the power of God at work?
Anthony Greco (09:40):
I love the old African proverb, which you’ve probably heard. You’re walking down the road and the road splits in two and you don’t know which way to go. One road has a, a man that’s dead, another one has a alive, which one are you gonna ask for directions? And I think our message is the resurrection of Jesus. And I, I think in North America, we focused on Christ died for our sins. The penalty was paid. But we don’t emphasize enough that the keys of death, hell in the grave are in the belt, in the hands of Jesus. He rose from the grave. He’s the only one. And he’s the same yesterday, today and forever and miracles, you know, they attest, they confirm the message. T.L. Osborn said to me, he says, you know, if you abide in my word, then you are my disciples. Indeed, we need to have the deeds to authenticate our message.
(10:27):
Cuz anyone can talk about what their prophet or guru, you know, had said. And so this, and it’s also when you go to areas where they’re held in darkness, and maybe there’s false religions or demonic powers or al, until you demonstrate that your message has greater power than theirs it’s very difficult for them to put their faith in Christ. So we, we must have miracles, Paul put an emphasis on it. And the only time we see that Paul didn’t have a lot of fruits in his ministries when he went to Mars Hill. And he just, he had a great, you know, apologetic discourse with the leaders. And they said, we’ll hear you again on this matter. But everywhere else, you know, in the book of Acts is like the Holy Spirit moves. And then the church plays catch up day of Pentecost boom. And they’re like, Peter’s like, whoa, what?
(11:15):
Oh, I know what this is. This is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel. 3000 people are saved. Acts chapter three, boom, A lay man gets healed. Don’t look at us as if, you know, it was by our, and so you see this pattern in the book of Acts where miracles change the spiritual, their signs and wonders and signs point to something they make you wonder, who is this Jesus? And so I have found that that is absolutely vital and it can quickly, Jesus said, even to Sodom and well to Corine and some of the cities, you know, and he said, if the miracles that were done in you were done in Sodom and Gamo, they would repentant. So miracles have an ability to bring repentance and change of mind and change of attitude in, in, in, in, in different people groups.
Evangelist Daniel King (11:58):
I’ve heard you say the gospel of Jesus is Jesus. Yeah. What do you mean by that?
Anthony Greco (12:04):
<Laugh>? You know, it’s you know, that’s the good news man, is that, you know every, every religion is propagated, usually by the parents. And then it’s affirmed by, you know, maybe a priest or a monk or a guru or a holy man. And through certain ceremonies that are performed in pagodas or temples or mosques or whatnot, right? Only in Christianity is our, in the gospel. What’s unique is that our message is advanced by the participation of the founder himself. You know, the Lord went with them, you know, you know, confirming the word. And when people encounter Jesus, our message is a person. You, you don’t become an adherent to a doctrine or you join a religious movement or take membership in a denomination. You encounter Jesus and you find in him, he’s everything you need, your savior, your healer, the Baptizer and the Holy Spirit, restore, deliverer, you know, he’s everything. He’s the life. And so that’s what I get excited is that the good news about Jesus is I know that when someone says yes, they can encounter, they’re gonna have a, an encounter with the living resurrected savior.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:12):
So you have the heart of an evangelist and now you’re pastoring. And so what’s that like to go from traveling, doing crusades to, to now being a pastor? And, and, and how have you brought those two different giftings and callings together?
Anthony Greco (13:29):
Yeah, I mean that’s a, I mean, that’s a tension that I’m, I’m still trying to learn how to, how to manage. Cuz you go overseas and it’s, it’s, it’s proclamation. You know, north America was a bit more explanation. Now, do I still expect the miraculous to happen in my church setting? Absolutely. And just, I heard a testimony just a few nights ago of a young gal that had a, a, a cyst, you know, on her ovary, and we prayed and she went to the doctrine and a vanished, we’ve seen blind eyes open. But what I recognize in the church is that, you know, as a, you know, a pastor, you know, when I started, someone said to me, Anthony says, you know, well actually I heard John Maxwell say this at a conference. He said, the weakness of the Charismatic Pentecostal Church is you guys overestimate the event and underestimate the process.
(14:11):
And so the shift that I’ve had to make is to think long term, build relationships. Now I’m planted in this community. I’ve been here for 23 years, and I want to, you know, invite people into that relationship over that process of time to come to Christ. The em, I I really believe that, that a great pastor, according to Jesus in Luke 50 leaves, the 99 safe sheep to go after the one lost sheep. And so I think it’s the number one job of every pastor is not to grow deeper disciples, but is to reach lost people. And so when we thought about our church, and so how I look at it, I think it’s the angle scale that about, on a scale of one to 10, the five is where someone gets born again, eight nines and tens are your solid, mature believers that can feed themselves.
(14:58):
Your zero ones and twos are those that are not even interested in spiritual reality. Everything, how we’ve designed our church is with, I’m thinking of the threes and fours, which are the people that are starting to ask questions. Is there more to life than this? What about Jesus? Is the Bible true? What happens when I die? You know? And five of course is born again, six, they’re and seven are new believers. So I prepare my messages for three to six or four to sevens. I figured that, well, the zero ones and twos, they’re not there. Eights, nines, and tens. Come on, you can feed yourself. I’m not getting fed in church. Really. You know, you’re, you’re like,
Evangelist Daniel King (15:35):
I have, you need to be feeding someone else. You need to
Anthony Greco (15:37):
Be feeding someone else. Now take some responsibility. So that’s how I gear my church. And so I had to make big adjustment on, you know, how I speak using layman’s terms, you know eradicating some of the Christian Church and Christianese so that it’s very welcoming. And, and I’ve seen people come in and some of them, you know, especially some of the more educated, affluent people, they may take a year or two before they actually make a decision for Christ. They’re really watching everything. But I still believe job number one, ultimately I think you is, is is reaching that one lost person.
Evangelist Daniel King (16:13):
We’re here together at the Advance Evangelist Summit, and it’s really wonderful to see all these different evangelists from around Canada come together here in Calgary and have a heart for evangelism. And I think one of the things that God wants to do is to raise up more proclamation of evangelists who will go and preach the gospel with strengths and with demonstration and with power, with full. Like
Anthony Greco (16:38):
You do. Like you
Evangelist Daniel King (16:39):
Do. Yeah. And, and so what advice would you give to, to a young person who, who would like to be a, a proclamation of evangelists? Maybe they don’t even know what that is, but they, they wanna tell thousands of people about Jesus.
Anthony Greco (16:50):
You know, I had a, a great, one of the great mentors in my life is a man named Wayne Myers. And he’s done in Mexico City. He just turned a hundred. And one day I asked him, I said, why don’t we have a lot of miracles in North America like we see overseas? And he says, you know, he says, Saul never killed a giant, and he never had giant killers under his ministry or under his tenure. And he says, David killed a giant. And then, you know some of my, his mighty men, you know, killed off the brothers of Goliath. And he says, you can’t give what you, what you don’t have. So I would say this, all that to say who’s doing it? Who’s who, who’s caring and demonstrating what you want. Go, go draw ear, connect with them, people like yourself, you know, and I know there’s a, you we’re talking about the bootcamp with Daniel nda, my friend Peter Youngren.
(17:38):
When there, there are people that are operating in this, I would say go and serve under those ministries, draw clothes, study hunger and thirst after it. It’s that association submission is such a powerful thing because when you’re submitted, what’s the anointing that’s on the mission comes on you. And I would say, I wouldn’t be here today without Peter’s mentorship, him acknowledging a gift that’s in me, giving me opportunity, correcting me, you know, fine tuning. And so that is an absolute important thing. Pastors are gonna produce pastors and teachers are gonna produce teachers evangelists will produce evangelists. Find you, put yourself in those environments and step out on faith and be bold.
Evangelist Daniel King (18:16):
Let’s talk about what God is doing in Canada. For many years, Canada has sent missionaries around the world. So many Canadian churches have a heart for missions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, and now what we see is that people from around the world are coming to Canada. And so right here in Calgary, you have people from many different nations, many different cultures. And, and it’s like God is bringing the mission field to you. And I know in your church you have people from many different backgrounds. What would you say to other pastors in Canada about this mission field that God is bringing here?
Anthony Greco (18:52):
I mean, I was just talking to one of the local pastors here and told me that in the northeast quadrant of my city, Calgary now Calgary’s about, I think it’s 1.3, 1.4 million, but in that quadrant there are 440081% of those people. So over 300,000 are new immigrants. They’re new Canadians, there are Muslims are Hindus, they’re in our backyard. And I, I think what the inside of the church must reflect the outside of the church. You know, we’re multicultural church. We have about 50 different nationalities represented. And we you know, it’s the, the challenge is I don’t want to be culturally specific. I need to be culturally sensitive. And so I look what’s on my platform is my platform. All white guys or white women, does it reflect my leadership, everything. And I think that that is so absolutely key. And so one of the best things is, is you gotta start connecting, you know, with people from other nations, other lands.
(19:51):
And I, I’m, I’m, I’m blessed and fortunate that I’ve been able to be in 40 different nations. And so when I meet my Nigerian friends and I say, oh, did you bring any [inaudible] you know, and I asked them about, oh, you got [inaudible] you know, <inaudible>, you know, I talk about the food. We make that connection. I do that with my, with my Muslim friends, with my Hindu friends. And I, I try to learn a little phrase in each language where I go. And so when I meet someone I can just drop a few words and shoot because I know what it’s like. My wife’s an immigrant. English is not her first language. She’s from Sweden. We met in India, got engaged in Nigeria. My mom and dad were immigrants that come to this land. I grew up in a street where every house was built by an Italian.
(20:32):
I always felt like I didn’t belong. I always felt like I was an outcast. And if you’ve never lived in another country, you don’t understand what that’s like. I lived in Sweden for four years. I know it’s like to feel like you’re an outcast. You don’t understand the culture, the jokes, the language I to learn it. And I think as the ch Canadian church, what an incredible opportunity. But we gotta break out of our old Canadian mindset and realize our nation has changed. We are, we per capita. I read yesterday or this week per capita, Canadians have brought in more new immigrants than any other nation on the planet. I am a hundred percent in favor of it. And the opportunities to win them, to befriend them, open up an English as a second language, put on an international day, you know, invite your Muslim friends in.
(21:23):
I invite, I met an Iranian family at the park and I’m teasing with the guy and I said, teach me some Farsi. He says, [inaudible] gum. Which is really rude way of saying get lost. He shows up in my church months later, I look at him and I said, gum show. Gum show. He laughs cuz he knew I remembered him. And so his son comes to our, to our youth. He’s like, I’m a Muslim, but he’s coming to our youth. It’s a long game we’re playing, you know. But I think that’s, that is an awesome opportunity as Canadians and you know, we, we have a, you know America, you have the melting pot. It’s
Evangelist Daniel King (21:57):
A great opportunity. It is. And the church needs to take advantage of it. Yeah.
Anthony Greco (22:00):
And you know what? Those people are open for signs and wonders and even I read a study that nine out of every 10 Canadians has had some kind of supernatural encounter. What a great conversation starter. You ever have a spiritual experience and all of a sudden, so what do you think of spiritual reality? It could be a ghost or a demon or something, you know, something really. But we are, Canada has changed, our mindset has changed. And I think, yeah, it is an opportunity.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:26):
That’s awesome. Well, pastor Anthony, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I appreciate it.
Anthony Greco (22:31):
Oh, well thank you so much
Evangelist Daniel King (22:32):
Daniel. I know we could talk for a long time. You’ve got so many stories. Thank you so much. Another
Anthony Greco (22:36):
Time. Thank you.
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Tyrella Smith | Gospel Fire for All Nations
Tyrella Smith was one of my students at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Since then she has preached to thousands of people in Tanzania and Zambia. Now she is planning a major stadium event in the middle of Canada. She is an on-fire evangelist who is ready to light a Gospel fire all over the world.
Learn more about Tyrella Smith: https://gospelfireforallnations.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:03):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Terrell Smith. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It’s such an honor. Dr. King. Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
You were one of my students at, that’s correct. The Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. Yeah. Led by Evangelist Daniel Kolinda <laugh>. And you were in the first That’s right. Graduating class of the Evangelism Bootcamp. Yes. And so tell me, what has God done in your life since you were there at the bootcamp?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, first of all, I just wanna say it’s such an honor. Dr. King was one of my teachers and one of my favorite teachers. You gave amazing homework that really helped prepare us for where, where we are all working and where we’re all headed. But since being in the bootcamp, I did three Decapolis Crusades, two in Tanzania, and then the last one was in Zambia. And that was amazing. So I actually got to preach on Delos in the city of Kassam and just all of the tools that we, we needed to identify the storytelling proclamation and then actually moving into signs, wonders and miracles. I mean, we learned that at, at the bootcamp and from this amazing teacher. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:24):
Well, thank you. So Deus is mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from the, the region in the New Testament where there were 10 cities. 10 cities. And so the idea is that Christ for All nations goes into a country mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and does multiple events in multiple cities at the same time. Yeah. And so all of the graduates from the Evangelism Bootcamp, they go in and help Yeah. To organize the events. And, and, and then as they become competent in sharing the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, then they get to actually get up on the platform and, and preach hundred percent. So what was that like? You got to stand mm-hmm. <Affirmative> in, in front of a sea of people, see thousands of people. Did you ever imagine that you would do something like that?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, I had had prophetic dreams from the Lord. And in 2018 I was invited by Christ for All nations to go to a crusade in Port Harcourt, Nigeria. And I remember watching this happen and saying to myself, why am I here? And God spoke to me and he said, I need you to see what you’re going to be doing one day. And so that was the first time I ever saw a crusade lie. And the passage that God put on my heart was when when Jacob put his flocks in front of the water, he put stripe, he put speckled, and then they bore fruit according to what they saw. And so as we’re on de capitalist, as we’re at school, as I was at the crusade, God was teaching me to see what I would be able to produce in him through the power of the Holy Spirit, through good training.
(02:56):
And so, you know, we learned how to do just like He the work of an evangelist. So that’s the prep work. And we do 80% of that before we even get to the microphone. And then here we are standing in front of the microphone and we’re standing in front of a sea of people, and every single one of them is a single person on the field. And it’s like Jesus is standing them, standing there with them as if they’re the only one. And so as you’re preaching, you’re preaching at with a point, you’re preaching with a spear and asking God to use those words to pierce the heart and bring a whole multitude to Christ as if they were the only person on the field. And it was, it was incredible. And just to be there in that moment, catching a net of fish with the power of goalie spirit. Absolutely. Epic. There’s nothing like it. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:51):
So let’s talk about the Evangelism Bootcamp. It’s a pretty intense time Oh yeah. Of, of study and learning about God, and then learning about evangelism Yeah. And really sharpening your gospel message. Yeah. What are some of the things that you learned while you were there at boot camp?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh, my favorite. Now this has actually transformed my ministry in Canada, and even when I do personal evangelism. And that is the powerful art of storytelling. And Jesus said he never spoke to anyone. He did not speak to the crowds unless he used a parable. And so it’s, I actually remember one class that Dr. King talked about, and I hope that he says this everywhere he goes, but storytelling is like throwing out rubies, diamonds, gold nuggets. And then they, when you tell a story, they trip on the truth of the story and they pick it up and they own it for their, for their very self. So storytelling and then applying the gospel of Jesus Christ, to it turns a light on inside of them, and they own the understanding of that their sinners, that they need a savior and that they can be and filled with the Holy Spirit. So I would say that was the biggest, one of my biggest takeaways was storytelling <laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:08):
And you were in a full week of my classes. Yes. What are some of the things that you learned from the classes that I taught?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah. So one of the classes that you taught, doc you taught was actually how to go through a passage from top to bottom and actually go back and forth from the passage to application. And so that was really great as well as one of my favorite things was applying the story. And like, Zakia, when you as Zakk came to see Jesus, Jesus came to see Zakia. And today you have come and Jesus has come to meet you. So you are a master at I wanna say expounding through a passage, but also on the application. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:59):
It’s so wonderful that you are a Canadian evangelist. <Laugh>, my wife Jessica is con Canadian. Yes. And both my kids are Canadian. So three quarters of our family are Canadian. And so of course we have king Ministries Canada here. Okay. And so, so many Canadians are, are very generous mm-hmm. <Affirmative> with the gospel and, and have helped to support Amen. The Amen festivals and crusades that we do around the world. And, and so I think God’s raising up a new generation of, of Canadian evangelists mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like Amen. Canada has always sent missionaries out Yes. To many different parts of the world. Yes. but there’s, there’s such a huge need here in Canada for, for more real, genuine evangelists who will proclaim the gospel. You, you’re one, now you’re
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Speaking my language,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:43):
<Laugh>. And so talk to to me about that. What, what do you see God doing here in Canada?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay. I’m so like, ugh, such an honor to have that question asked. Because actually after taking the bootcamp, I head off to Tanzania. It is wild. And it’s so busy. And you just need five minutes to yourself with your daughter. You forget who you are. And so I go into my room and I say, Jesus, I just, I just need to hear something from you. And he speaks to me very clearly, and he says, the Great Canadian harvest. And all of a sudden I saw these combines lined up all in a row, whoosh. And they would clear a field, whoosh. They’d clear another field, just absolute unity. And now I’m from the prairies. So, you know, we don’t often see a lot of combines on a field at, at once and certainly not lined up. But I understood what the Lord was saying, and it was this, that the proclamation evangelist has come and is coming back into Canada, and we’re gonna see that renormalize in this season. It’s time to go back to mass salvation within our borders and to renormalize the Canadian evangelist. And we’re starting to see a surgeon’s resurgence of evangelism. Right. We’re seeing everybody’s hungry to talk about Jesus. Right. But there’s a proclamation of the gospel that needs to go out. Like it goes out from the mountains and for people to gather around the sound of God’s words and the power of the Holy Spirit to land on those words. And we’re seeing it now. We’re seeing it now,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:21):
<Laugh>. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and you are friends with Brad Meyer? Yes. He’s going with me next month to Ethiopia. Amazing. And we’re going to be preaching together there on the fields. Yes. A harvest fields of Ethiopia. And he’s a great evangelist. He’s got a powerful group, a Facebook group encouraging evangelists in That’s right. Canada and around the world. Yes. He really has a, a gift for that. What are some of the things you’ve, you’ve learned from your relationship with, with Brother Brad?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Absolutely. Hands down is compassion. When you see Brad think of him as just an evangelist, but behind the scenes, I’ve watched him weep at the joy of a miracle. Now, many evangelists, they’ll be like a miracle. But when Brad sees a miracle, he’ll often cry and he’ll tell the story because he knows that a miracle changes the life. It’s not just a supernatural power of God, it’s the supernatural power of God applied to a broken life. And so that’s one of the things that we see, I think with Brad, is the personality of, of our God with the power of God. <Laugh>.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:28):
Yeah. So I’m gonna put a, a link to where people can join the, the life group Yeah. Of evangelists. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Because if, if you’re a Canadian evangelist, you really need to get connected with other Canadian evangelists who have a heart mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for the gospel. So what are some of the things that God’s put on your heart coming up? What mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what are some of the outreaches that you’re gonna do here in the next Yes. Few months and, and years.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes. <laugh>, thank you for asking. So one thing that God has really spoken to my heart, and I really wish I had it here right now, but you can see it online is I said to God, I feel like it’s time for the proclamation of the gospel to go out. And I had been thinking about Sastel Center since 2018. And so last spring I said, God, like if this is you, if you wanna see Sast Health Center filled with people hearing the gospel, I said, you put something in my hands today and I’m a hundred percent in, I’ll do it. But if you don’t, I’m a hundred percent out and I will never think of it again for as long as I live. And within an hour a gentleman came up to me and he put two photos in my hands. One was Billy Graham preaching in Sastel Center, and the other was a picture of the promo.
(10:45):
Nobody knew what I’ve prayed. And I said, okay, God, we’re in. So since then we set the date June 2nd through fourth in Saskatoon, at Sastel Center Stadium. Wow. And we have Charity Gale coming. And one of the other things is we had a farmer show up and he said, Terrell, he says, I’ve got a problem. I said, brother, tell me cuz he was the donor. And so we’re gonna pray for him cuz it’s about partnership. Right. And he says, well, I’ve got all this grain and I gotta move my grain. So now I’m thinking, okay, I need to pray into the marketing. Cause you gotta market your grain. I have to pray into the shipping or whatever, and I’m just starting to calculate how I’m gonna pray for this brother. And he says, no, you don’t understand. He says, I need to give you this grain.
(11:29):
I said, bro, what am I gonna do with grain? I grow grass. I’m not a farmer. Right. And he says, no. He says, you’re gonna sell this grain. And so we sell it, and it was enough for the price of the stadium. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then another person another ministry came and I said, you know, I really feel like God’s telling us to get Charity, Yale to come because she’s not a worship entertainer. She is a worshiper worshiper. Right. And I could not get through to save my life. I couldn’t get through. And so now I’m in Zambia and I’m with this incredible evangelist Rachel Smith, which is funny. We Oh,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:08):
Yeah. Rachel Smith is a great woman of God. She’s
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Amazing, she’s wonderful. And so we’re in Zambia together, we’re having a great time. She says, Terrell, tell me about your event. And I said, well, I feel like I’m supposed to get Charity Gale, but I can’t get through it. And she says, well, listen, I got you. That’s my worship leader’s best friend <laugh>. And then this other ministry steps up and says, I’m gonna pay for the whole bill. Wow. So we still need to raise $200,000, but we’re on the go and we’re just gonna keep moving because Jesus is moving. And people want to gather, not for any big logos or egos, but just to calm into the presence of the Lord and bring somebody else to meet ’em. And that’s just where we’re at. This thing is gonna wrap the ca the, the country is gonna just be wrapped with the gospel
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:57):
And fire. Amen. Well, I believe that this will be the first of many amazing outreaches across the nation of
Speaker 2 (13:04):
God’s doing it Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:05):
He’s doing it. And so if someone’s listening and they want to participate, they want to help with some of the cost of this, this great Canadian outreach what is your website? How can they be a part of what God is doing? Or if they want to come and be a part and, and, and thank you, get their church involved or, or get other evangelists involved, how can they contact
Speaker 2 (13:23):
You? Absolutely. So the event is called Come together.day, come together.day. Okay. You can go on there. You can learn all about the event June 2nd through fourth at Sastel Center Stadium in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. On there you’ll see a donate link. All we need is literally 220 people to give a thousand bucks or 2,200 people to give a hundred bucks so that other people can hear the gospel. And it’s done. It’s done. And we’ll see the kingdom come.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:56):
Amen. And what’s your personal website?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
My personal website is Gospel fire for all nations.org. And you can see come together on there as well. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:06):
Well, let’s finish by praying for the Nation of Canada because I know it’s on your heart, <laugh>. And let’s, let’s pray for, for people to be saved across Canada. Amen. And for God to raise up evangelists across Canada. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
All right. Well, first of all, God, I just want to thank you for Dr. King here in this nation, in these borders. And Lord, I want to thank you for the power of his presence in this nation. And I’m asking God that you release his feet with fire upon our own land, and that you anoint him with great power, Lord, to strengthen this nation when he comes back and as he goes into these other places, strengthen him there as well. And God, we wanna thank you right now in the name of Jesus Christ, that Canada right now is being saved, that you have marked out within our borders, those that you have anointed, that you’ve chosen, that the spirit of God is upon them to preach the gospel to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and to set the captives free. And God, I thank you that your eyes are on our nation and that our nation currently right now is being stirred by the power of the Holy Spirit and that you are saving our nation.
(15:14):
Now, God, I thank you even for some of the shakings that we’ve had that has ripened the grain. Help us to mobilize collaboratively, Lord, to see the kingdom of God come in people’s lives. And that heaven would be full in your mighty name, in Jesus’ name, God. People say, come quickly Lord Jesus. And I say, God, wait. Our nation must be saved. Have mercy and bless us, and fill us with fire and with the presence of God and anoint us God, to see every soul saved or hearing the gospel in this season. In Jesus name. Bless us, God bless us and make us a blessing to you. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:55):
Amen. Amen. Canada shall save. Amen. <laugh>, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast and
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Thank you for everything you do. I really respect your work. God bless you.
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Jon “Razz” Laframboise | What is Your Unique Evangelistic Expression?
Jon Laframboise is passionate about bringing Revival Fire to Canada. He serves as a staff evangelist at a local church in Calgary, Alberta. He loves to activate believers to share their faith. On today’s podcast he asks, “What is your Unique Evangelistic Expression?”
Connect with Jon “Razz” Laframboise on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Jon.r.laframboise
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me. I am in Calgary, Alberta, up in Canada. And John is a good friend. He’s been a friend for many years, and you’re gonna have to help me with pronouncing your last name. You’re such a good friend. I don’t even know how to say your name.
Jon Laframboise (00:21):
It’s okay. [inaudible]
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:23):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. So you have a calling from God mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from on your life to be an evangelist. That’s right. And you went to Bible school? The same Bible school that my wife went to or that she was associated with the ministry there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> it was called WIBI. Do you remember what the initials stand for?
Jon Laframboise (00:46):
WEBI stands for World Impact Bible Institute.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:49):
And so it was the Bible School of Pastor Peter Youngren. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, who is an evangelist here in Canada. And he was doing crusades in many different parts of the world. And I actually wanted to learn from him as a young evangelist. And so I called up his office and said, can I come and meet with you? And he said, I’d love to meet with you, but not here in Canada. Come with me to Africa. And so I went with him to Congo, Africa. And at that time my wife Jessica was working for Pastor Peter as a crusade director. As a festival director. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so she was organized, the festival and everything. And so that’s where me and my wife met. And so you knew my wife ever since the, the webi days.
Jon Laframboise (01:35):
That’s right. Yeah. So she started working for Peter Youngren at the tail end of my time at the Bible School. And then I went to, in Indonesia as a missionary. And that’s, she actually came through Indonesia with Peter Young’s ministry organizing a festival, healing festival. And she stayed with us for a few days in Indonesia.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so tell me a little bit about the ministry that you did while you were there in Indonesia.
Jon Laframboise (01:56):
So a lot of it started off just going from village to village. You know, doing these well house to house stuff, smaller house meetings and whatever else. But then we wanna do something a little bigger, a little bit more impact. So we started going villages. I bought a portable sound system that we just bring with us, you know, portable, you know, but bring it with us to different villages. And started doing healing festivals or crusades and just started preaching the gospel and praying for people, seeing people getting healed. So they just, and from there it just, the reputation just kind of grew and grew and grew and grew. And even before the tsunami that happened in 2005 or four we actually went to Acce where the province where it happened, you know, and then we got kicked out pretty quickly. They weren’t sold under Muslim Sri law, you know, they drove us out. But it just kept on going in as much as you could, trying to just preach Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:47):
So you are a Canadian evangelist. That’s right. And you are here in Canada and evangelism is different in every different part of the world. Kind of talk to me about how evangelists are received here in Canada.
Jon Laframboise (03:02):
Well, it’s so funny as like a city like Calgary, you know, you know, the reception will change from person to person. We are a massively multicultured city, you know, so I always say, like, joke around saying, if your city is predominantly Caucasian, then you’re not reaching our city. You know, we have a lot of Africans, we have a lot of Middle Eastern people, we have a lot of Southeast Asians, we have a lot of, you know, Canadians, if you put it that way. So there’s, it’s a, it’s a wide reach. So it depends on what sector of the city. For example, in our city of Calgary, but even in Canada as well, much like the us, lots of vary cultures. So the, lately now we’re seeing within the church, the evangelistic ministry being more and more accepted, more realizing like, oh, we are needed for years and past.
(03:45):
It was almost the, you know, the outcast son, if you would like, yeah, we know you’re part of us, but let’s hold you at bay because we don’t quite trust you yet. But now there’s been a lot of reconciliation in churches in terms of the different evangelistic ministries, you know, and more of an acceptance of it. But even so, the ministry of it, outside the four walls of the church it’s when done right, if I could put it that way. It’s widely well received, I think, where if we really focus on that Roman two force, the goodness of God, that leads people to repentance. You know, when we share the real, true, genuine, raw love of Jesus and not the preconceived notion of the world thinks Jesus is, it’s pretty well received.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
I think it’s really neat what God has done here in Canada, cuz there are so many different nations and cultures mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that have moved here. Canada has been very welcoming to people from many different nations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And in some ways the mission field has come to Canada. I mean, Canada has always had a heart for missions that the churches of Canada have sent missionaries out mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to many different parts of the world. And now the mission field has come to Canada. And I, I think it would be very valuable for Canadian churches to, to think about it in those terms mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and think how are we going to reach these people that God has brought to our own backyard? Yep. And so right now you are actually serving as a evangelist at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative> here in Calgary. That’s right. And so you used to be a full-time evangelist traveling around and, and ministering at a variety of different churches and bringing revival and activating people for evangelism. But about a year ago, God gave you the opportunity to start on, on staff at a church mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so what does that look like? Being an evangelist, but fitting into the vision of a local church?
Jon Laframboise (05:31):
At first it was, it was difficult tr to define that and piece it. You know, we’re still defining what that looks like. You know, both my pastor and I, you know, I spent 17 years traveling full-time. He spent several years traveling. So we both had the same attitude, the same mindset of, of of an itinerant ministry. But when it comes down to boiling it down to a local church, you know, he’s a senior leader, the episodic leader, you know, and I’m the evangelist. So it’s we’re still forming what that actually looks like, you know, cause it seems like a new concept really in modern day church. But really what I’m tasked with is creating an evangelistic culture within the, the church. Right. Equipping the believers, you know, for the sake of harvest. You know, and, and really what I’m finding a lot of what I need to do is actually redefine what evangelism looks like to the everyday believer. Cuz a lot of us, we have this, this preconceived notion, whether it’s an early childhood experience or or whatever it is, that you think, oh, when I hear the word outreach or evangelism, it means going door to door and it’s relegated to one particular style, technique or method. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:36):
So people, when you say evangelism, they think, oh, if, if I’m gonna do evangelism, I have to be willing to go and cold call someone, talk to them Yeah. Without ever having seen them before. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (06:47):
It, yeah. So really, so it’s, and I see evangelism, it, it breaks outside of the method. You know, I always tell people that I don’t win souls because I’m an evangelist. I win souls because I love Jesus. You know, and evangelism in its most purest form, I would define it this way, that it’s falling so in love with Jesus, that you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together. You know, when you, when you adopt that as a, the, the foundation of evangelism, it takes away the method, the technique or whatever else. And it just opens up for interpretation of how can I share the love of God with someone, you know, however that looks for you compared to someone else. It, it’s wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:24):
So as an evangelist who’s on staff at a church helping to activate the church in evangelism, do you think every church should hire an evangelist to be their staff evangelist?
Jon Laframboise (07:35):
Oh, I would love that. I’d be absolutely wonderful. You know, like it’s, God gave the five fold for the equipping, perfecting and the maturing of the saints. Well, it’s hard for a pastor to equip someone in evangelism the same way. It’s hard for a teacher, you know, to equip people to, you know, in, in prophecy or whatever else. It works better when you have that person called to that area to lead someone and train them in that particular area. You know, like evangelists don’t make good pastors, but pastors make great pastors and pastors don’t make good evangelists, you know, and vice versa, apostles, you know? Yeah. They could.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:08):
And sometimes I think there’s an antagonism between people who have a gift of pastoring and people who have a, a gift of the evangelists. But what we need to really understand is that both gifts are needed in the body of Christ. Well, a hundred percent. And, and so what do you think the evangelist brings to a church? What, what does a church need that an evangelist brings?
Jon Laframboise (08:29):
Yeah. What I think an evangelist really does, it breaks down the walls of separation between the world and the church. Now, there is a separation between the two, obviously. But it breaks down the division between the two in terms of, it puts a zeal in believers. There’s a contagious impartation, a contagious zeal, and a passion for the lost where it breaks outside of the, I’m comfortable in the four walls of the church and allows you to go out into the world to actually reach the loss and show the love of Jesus. It really brings an impartation and a zeal and a passion, but also an activation for spiritual gifts, I believe where, you know, in Acts one, eight, you know, and Jesus says, you know, go into the world and you know, or you know, you’ll be, see power. You’ve been my witnesses.
(09:11):
Right? Well, the power of God is, is meant to be a witness. It’s not meant to put on really cool conferences or revival meetings, which those things are great, but it’s meant to be a witness, right? We’re meant to go out into the world with the power to witness of the resurrection of Jesus. And I really believe that the ministry evangelists brings a drive behind that. It really brings a, a forceful, but yet also with gentle pushing outside the four walls of the church to go be the light, go be the salt, you know, go be that lamp that the world needs you to be.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:42):
So you’ve taken teams down to an area of Vancouver mm-hmm. <Affirmative> where there is huge need. So talk to me about what that area in Vancouver looks like, and then how you were able to, to evangelize there.
Jon Laframboise (09:56):
Yeah. So this area, Vancouver’s called East Tasting. It’s in the downtown’s called the downtown East side. So it’s actually right next to Roger’s place, which is where the Vancouver connects place only three blocks away. So it’s interesting where it’s multimillion dollar real estate all around it. But yet is there, is this really concentrated in a three or four block radius where it’s open intravenous drug use, it’s homelessness to the extreme. It’s massive drug and alcohol abuse. It’s, it’s it’s really a deprived area where it seems that they concentrated all these people suffering with addiction to kind of, they, they pushed them all into one area. So it’s, it’s really almost like the armpit of Canada in terms of just like, what’s, how the devil’s run rampant there. So every couple months we would take teams down there and just love on people, pray for them, you know, display the love of God, and, and just also just bringing value, trying to add an element of value to the individual.
(10:54):
Like as one particular person, I’ll never forget this and I just asked ’em how they’re doing, you know, and, you know, good, you know, very short answers. And then and I just asked him, I was like, Hey, like, what’s your story? Like, how did you end up here? And then he asked me, look at me there in the eyes and says, do you really want to know? I said, I will go. Let’s go. I’ll buy you coffee. Let’s go for lunch and share your story with me. And he starts crying and he says this, but seven years since I’ve been able to share my story with someone, seven years since anyone wanted to talk to me, like really have a meaningful conversation with me. And that’s heartbreaking, right? So we’re going down there, we’re listening to these people’s stories and just sharing and imparting the love of the father. And with them, we will pray for them, you know, and those who we see some love of breakthrough, we’ll try to get ’em connected with a local mission that’s down there, or a local recovery center. And seen some level of success in that as well. It’s been absolutely wonderful.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Earlier when we were talking, you had a, a great idea. It, you it the unique
Jon Laframboise (11:54):
Yeah. Finding your unique evangelistic expression.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:57):
So your unique evangelistic expression, and I think you should trademark that. Yeah. <laugh>, your, your u e e, right? That score. And, and, and so talk to me about that concept. When you go into a church and you’re talking to people about evangelism mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what does that mean? That, that each person would have a unique evangelism expression.
Jon Laframboise (12:16):
So I don’t feel like, for me, the way that God uses me, like I, I am bold, brash. I don’t mind walking up to a complete stranger and striking up a conversation, maybe having a word of knowledge for him or a word of encouragement for him. And and just going right into it, into that. But that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people hear that and they think, oh gosh, not in a million years uhuh, I have to have like five angels appear to me. Jesus himself has to hold me by the hand and leave me out to do that with someone. But sometimes when you, when you know, train people in evangel, when you teach ’em, that’s the cold call if you would, some people, it turns off a lot of people to it. But when you approach it with the definition I talked about earlier, you know, falling so in love with Jesus, you allow the world to look into the intimacy you have together that opens a door of opportunity for anything.
(13:05):
For example, let’s say that you’re a really good baker. You know, why not ask the Lord what your neighbor’s favorite pie is, or favorite cookie or whatever it is, and bake ’em that particular pie or cook whatever it is that God leads you into. And just knock on the door, Hey, I’m so-and-so, I’m your neighbor. You know, we either you know them, you don’t know them, doesn’t matter. He’s like, I just felt like God wanted me to bake you this pie. Like, do you like apple pie? It’s like, oh, it’s my favorite pie. Like, how do, like, oh, the God told me to bake you this pie. Or you know, or whatever. Maybe you’re really good at hosting parties. You love hosting parties. Invite your neighbors in, you know, just host a really good party and, and get to know them. Be relational with them.
(13:41):
So it’s finding something in a natural that God could put his supernatural dynamic. You know, you look at Moses at the burning bush. God asks Moses, Hey, what’s in your hand? He says, well, God’s his staff. He’s familiar with his staff, you know, shepherds with it. You know, he used as a walking stick, I’m sure probably use it for self-defense. And maybe he has some cool ninja moves he did with it. Who knows, you know, <laugh>. But with this staff that he’s familiar with, God puts a supernatural dynamic behind it. And with it, he delivers an entire nation. So what is it that you’re comfortable with? What is it you’re familiar with that God gca put a supernatural dynamic behind and then use that as an opportunity to preach the gospel or, or bring deliverance to people or healing or whatever else, you know? So it’s finding out how does God use you to preach the gospel?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:28):
One of the unique challenges here in Canada is this concern that has arisen lately about hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so in the, the Charter of Rights in Canada, freedom of speech mm-hmm. <Affirmative> is guaranteed mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but there is concern that you shouldn’t use freedom of speech to, to speak in a hateful manner against someone. And the the hate is a little bit in the ears of the listener. Like if they feel like you’re, you’re saying something like, for example, if, if, if you’re preaching the gospel and they feel condemned by some aspect of, of what you’re saying, they can label that, that hate speech. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So this is a problem across Canada. Yeah. And specifically here in Calgary you have people that are, have been fined mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for what they’ve been saying. What balance do you think evangelists should have in being faithful to the, the truth of the gospel mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but also not getting fined by the government, you know, banging the laws of the government.
Jon Laframboise (15:31):
Yeah. So a lot of these fines especially here in Calgary, just passes bylaw. Like there’s a hate speech. So it’s, this particular law is just within the confines of Calgary where someone interprets it, something that’s hateful, then it’s, you know, up to a $500 fine. But even as Canada as well, a lot of it is geared towards the l gt Q to I’m, I’m not sure I’ll deal the way you put the, properly put it now. But that community where it’s, there’s an anti conversion therapy bill that’s passed. So if you counsel, if I were as a pastor, were to counsel someone, if even if they come to me saying, Hey, I’m suffering with same sex attraction and I don’t want it anymore. Legally, I can’t counsel that person because, you know, if someone found out that I can get fined and potentially go to jail.
(16:18):
So I think that minister’s, pastor’s, evangelists, absolutely, you gotta stay true to it. But in terms of the out outside the four walls of the church and presenting the gospel, you know, is it says that the holy spirits, the one is gonna convict the world of righteousness, oh, sorry, convicted world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. You know, not us, you know, in Romans two, force the goodness of God at leads, people to repentance. So it’s the gospel needs as be centered around the goodness of who Jesus is. You know? And the whole message of repent. Well, the word repent loses so much in our culture. Cause we don’t know what it means. Right? It’s what change the way you think, go a different direction. Right? It’s a thought process change. But unfortunately we, we preach it as a turner burn type thing, which is really not what it is.
(17:02):
So it’s stay true to the message of the gospel, which is Jesus loves you. You know, John 3 16 17, God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son, you know, God, everyone believes in him, should not condemned, be condemned by however lasting life. And so stay true to that fact that, you know, while we’re so enemies of God, Jesus died for us and reconciled us to the Father. Right. So it seems like before we address a sin issue the individualistic sin issue, there is the overarching sin issue that needs to be addressed, which needs forgiveness. So once someone gets saved, and then Yeah. Move into something a little bit more detailed, refined. But I think that we could stay true to the message and the truth of the gospel without addressing a particular sin, and just address the fact that you need a savior.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:49):
Right. And we all need a savior. We
Jon Laframboise (17:51):
All do. Every
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:52):
Last sinners, we’ve all done things that are wrong, and we all need the forgiveness that can Absolutely.
Jon Laframboise (17:57):
It doesn’t matter what sin we deal with, we need Jesus.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:59):
And so you feel that there’s a way to communicate the gospel that doesn’t cross over into being hate speech. Yeah.
Jon Laframboise (18:07):
It’s what’s hateful was saying Jesus loves you and he wants to forgive you of your sins. Right. Of course. If someone asks you, well, what’s considered sin, then I think in that, you have to be able to carefully word it where, because what people say, well, is, is homosexuality a sin? What they’re really asking you is am is they’re asking you but their identity. Right. Because people identify with their lifestyle. It’s, it’s who I am. Right? So that’s how it becomes hate speech because you’re now, you’re def you’re speaking against me as an individual. So it’s trying to communicate in a way, let’s separate you from your lifestyle choices, right. And address you as a human being, not your lifestyle. Right. And until you can definitely preach the gospel with, without compromising the message at all, right. And still see, let’s stay true to what sin is.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:54):
Well, I absolutely love that you have stayed true to your calling as an evangelist and working in Canada and in other parts of the world, and just bringing revival and bringing evangelism, getting people fired up about sharing their faith with others. And so just very honored to, to have you as a friend. And if someone is listening and they want to reach out to you, maybe invite you to come minister at their church or bring evangelism, maybe a Canadian pastor is listening, they’d like you to, to come sometime. What’s a, a good email that they can reach you at?
Jon Laframboise (19:30):
The best email to reach me at is info i n o harvest culture.com. That’s the best email for me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:38):
Awesome. Well, thank you John so much for being on. Thank the advantage of for Having Me
Jon Laframboise (19:41):
Podcast. Bless you.
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Stephen Strang | Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World
Stephen Strang leads Charisma Media. They publish Charisma Magazine which had reported on the Spirit-Empowered movement for decades. Today we talk about three books on evangelism being published by Charisma House: It’s Our Turn Now by Mario Murillo; Ignite Your Life by Barry Meguiar; & Spirit-Led Living in an Upside-Down World by Steve Strang.
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Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest, Steve Strang from Charisma Media. Thank you so much for joining me today,
Stephen Strang (00:11):
And I’m excited to be with you. You’ve, as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been excited.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
Well, I love telling people about Jesus. Now, a charisma is a legend. When I was a teenager, I remember my mom and dad were subscribed to the Charisma Magazine and we would read all the stories of what God was doing around the world. And you have really been instrumental in helping ministries tell the world about Jesus for so many years. How did you get started in the whole publishing business and, and with the vision that God gave
Stephen Strang (00:47):
You? Well, I had an interest in writing and journalism going back to high school trained to be a journalist. And you know, there’s a lot of media that don’t even touch anything Christian or spiritual. And if they do, it has to have a, a hint of scandal or controversy or something. So when the heyday of the charismatic movement there was a need for what we did, and I’ve been doing it. And, and by God’s grace, we’ve grown into lots of other kinds of media, especially as a digital age came. I like to tell people that when I started charisma, we were still using manual typewriters, literally. And of course, all that has totally changed. Now, now a lot of what we do are books and we’ve sold millions of copies of books and and a lot of them have to do with evangelism. And really evangelism needs to be a part of everything in the spiritual life. It isn’t like some people are like Christians over here, and then we’ve got these few evangelists, and it’s entirely up to them. No, it’s entirely up to all of us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so you have several books here that you are publishing right now. Let’s start by talking about your brand new book. It’s called Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World. That’s right. What is this book all about?
Stephen Strang (02:08):
Well, it’s about the power of the Holy Spirit, but in a way that’s almost like a cliche in, in especially in Pentecostal circles. Why does that exactly mean? A lot of things have been written about the Holy Spirit, everything from theological books to whatever. I try to take the look that we need that power more than ever. And I see a lot of people, even that claim to be spirit filled Christians, they don’t walk in it, they don’t experience, they’re discouraged. They feel like what I call the other side is winning again and again. And I’m saying that we have to have the power of the Holy Spirit to wa to experience the gifts of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit, just to survive. And I used the example that I heard from a preacher one time. He said that when you scuba dive the scuba gear will not keep you from getting wet, but it allows you to live in a hostile environment that would, that would kill a human being to be underwater for more than a minute or two.
(03:07):
But as long as you’ve got the scuba equipment and oxygen, you can stay down there indefinitely until the oxygen runs out. Well, to be in this upside down world. If we have the power of the Holy Spirit, we can have joy, we can have peace, we can have all these things, and we can live in this world regardless of if things are going right or not. And I think that that’s important. And then of course, if we’re gonna win the world at all or have any kind of impact on culture, it’s got to be through the power of the Holy Spirit. In fact, I tell the story that you know, as several decades ago, we got reports as far back as the 1950s that that missionaries, Christian missionaries who went from America from denominations that denied the power of the Holy Spirit when they got into countries where they had to really battled demonic forces, that they found that they couldn’t get along without the power of the Holy Spirit.
(04:05):
And they, they began receiving the baptism of Holy Spirit, you know, often from maybe meeting other missionaries or whatever. Well, they had the power to confront demonic demonic forces that we weren’t accustomed to the United States. Now granted, we have demonic forces. There’s always been sin, but guess what we are now having, we’re seeing spiritual warfare at a level we’ve never seen before. And I talk in here about evangelizing not as a specific topic, but when I talk about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, one of them is the spirit a word of knowledge. And I tell a story about Reinhart Bonky, the great evangelist who got a word of knowledge that his brother, who instead of becoming a gungho Christian, evangels had entirely gone the other way, almost in an agnostic or atheist. And his brother was going through a very difficult time.
(05:10):
His brother lived in Germany, Reinhardt was in Africa at the time, and his brother had just lost his marriage. He was considering taking his own life. He had a dream about being on a bridge. Well, at the same time, the Holy Spirit revealed to Reinhardt, he had a very similar dream, and he felt he should write his brother a letter. His brother was looking for some kind of sign that God was real. He ended up getting powerfully saved. Now, this was before the days of email, and I tell the story much, much better in the book, but it’s an example of where a word of knowledge caused someone to come to Christ. And that’s only one of many ways that the power of the Holy Spirit can help us. To me personally, it’s the boldness, it’s the confidence. It’s the reassurance that God is with you causes you to be bold instead of timid. So I think that for any, any Christian, I, in fact, I believe that the spirit filled life, or as I call it, the Spirit-led life should be normative. It should be the normal Christian life. It was in the early church. Of course, all kinds of things happen and different denominations and doctrines and so on and so forth. But it ought to be the normative Christian life in the same way the sharing Jesus should be normative.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:39):
You have documented many different moves of the Holy Spirit over the years. What sense do you get of what the Holy Spirit is doing right now?
Stephen Strang (06:51):
Well, that’s a good question, and it leads me to my next book. I believe that something, you know, things have been pretty bad, but we’re starting to see a shift. The revival at Asbury University is one example, but Mario Marillo, who people might know from the Victory Channel, and of course he’s been around since the Jesus movement.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
And Mario is a great evangelist. He is full on evangelistic. He gives the greatest altar calls. In fact, I was just at a meeting he did in Tulsa, Oklahoma recently, where they packed out the maybe center and he gave the altar call. And so many people were getting saved. They, they couldn’t even fit them all into the altar.
Stephen Strang (07:33):
Well, I happened to be at the same meeting, and I went specifically because of Mario. I was tremendously touched myself. And you’re right, he is a powerful evangelist. But he started having, during the Covid shutdown in California, where they were almost dracony in the restrictions they put on, he’s, people would flock to his tents. And now of course he’s going other. But his book, his new book, which just came out, I right after New Year’s says, it’s our turn now with the idea that God’s plan to restore America is within our reach. That’s what the subtitle is. And I, I believe, in fact, he and I talked about it, I did a podcast with him that he, he believes what’s happening at Asbury and a lot of other places is an indication that people are spiritually hungry and they’re coming to Jesus you know, even during really difficult times like Covid was and everything else that’s going on. So I think that this would encourage people, it would give them insight. No book is gonna be the answer to everything except the book, which is the Bible. But our books try to encourage people, give them hope, tell stories that they wouldn’t know otherwise. And Mario is a great example.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:53):
I would love to see God raise up a whole new generation that has the same boldness as Mario Marillo to share the gospel. Now we have another book here. It’s by Barry McGuire and it’s called Ignite Your Life. And it, it’s not specifically about evangelism, but he’s very evangelistic in it,
Stephen Strang (09:13):
Right? It really is on evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:15):
Tell, tell me about it.
Stephen Strang (09:16):
Well, Barry McGuire is from McGuire’s Car Wax. It’s a company that his grandfather founded in 1901. He really took it to great heights to where it is the number one car wax brand in the world. And he was raised a Christian, he’s been a spirit led Christian for many, many years. He tells the story of how he has shared his faith every single day for 40 years. And this is the only book he’s ever written. And it tells his story. And we talked about the fact, and I don’t, maybe I shouldn’t say this, but within the publishing world, books written on evangelism, evangelism generally don’t sell very well. Well,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:03):
I’ve got a, a bunch of books I’ve written on evangelism, and that’s probably true. <Laugh> You, you wish they would because we wanna get people fired up, right? But then a book that has the secret to success does much better.
Stephen Strang (10:17):
Well, you know, there, I could talk since I’m a publisher for a long time about that, but people don’t very often read books they ought to read. People aren’t gonna buy a book that says you need to lose weight, you know, but they’ll read a book on how to get healthy, which may include losing weight. So we, this book kind of masquerades, maybe that’s not the best verb to use, but is his story. But his whole life is about leading people to Jesus and sharing his faith and being happy. He says, you’re so happy when you do this. And, and he talks about how, how he has energy, and he’s gone through some terrible ups and downs in businesses where he almost lost his business. At one point, his, his daughter tragically died as an fairly young adult. But the Lord brought him through because he had this passion to share Jesus and passion.
(11:17):
He, he gives a new definition to Romans 8 28, which is a very common scripture. All things work together for good, and Christians like to quote that. But the rest of the verse says, all things work together for good to those who are called according to his purpose. And why does the purpose of God that none should perish so that when you’re doing God’s purpose, which is sharing your faith, getting people to come to Jesus, that that’s when all things work together. And he elaborates on it much more than I am, tells this story in a very winsome way. And he has been enormously successful in lots of different venues. He had a television program on the Discovery Channel for like 18 years now. It was car crazy. It was about all these guys that love cars and they loved to sh and if they got a car, it’s gonna get the best shine with McGuire’s wax.
(12:15):
And, you know, they talk about all these things, but I’ll give you a personal example as I got to know him. As you know, as a professional, as a friend, before we did the book several times we would go out to eat without qu without exception. Some stranger would come up during the meal and say that, you know, he used to watch his car show with his dad, and they used to polish the car together. And, you know, this is the kind of feedback you would get. But, and often Barry would witness to these people right in front of us. And he also told stories that and he would also witness the waitress or the waiter. In fact, he told a story. He was in a restaurant in Springfield, Missouri, of all places. And he, and he asked the waitress, he said, when the food comes, we’re gonna pray.
(13:11):
We’re Christians, is there something we can pray for you about? And she said, yes. She said that a family member was almost in depression, that his daughter had been raped and brutally murdered, and he was just having a horrible problem and was very discouraged, obviously. And so Barry gave her his business card and wrote his cell phone number on it. Well, she called and told him, turns out he’s a car. Crazy guy. Watched him on tv. Couldn’t believe that the Mary McGuire reached out to him. Wow. And so he called Barry, Barry was able to share with him that he lost his daughter. Now she died of a disease, not a brutal murder, and was really able to minister to the guy. And again, he tells the story much better than I am. But that’s an example. And actually, I learned from his example that when I go into a restaurant, I did it twice this week, I will ask the server their name and say, is there anything we can pray for you about?
(14:18):
And it’s very interesting to see the expression on their face just instantly. Usually they have to think a little bit about it. I’ve had waitresses break down in tears. One lady said she was having a really bad day, and we said, well, we’ll pray for you. You’re better. She came back later and said, this morning I was with a friend, as the friend died. Wow. Now they knew the friend was dying. And she went there to comfort the lady, and she said she really appreciated us praying. One time I was with a friend and we prayed or asked the waitresses, we prayed for her. About 10 minutes later, another waitress came back and said my friend was back in the kitchen telling everyone that you’re praying for her. Would you pray for me? Now, we, we don’t always get that response. Sometimes people wanna pray for world peace or the war in the Ukraine or something like that, and we’re fine.
(15:14):
We’re sometimes we just pray a blessing on people. But that is a way to move people a little bit closer to Jesus. And it opens a door instead of just being strangers, you’re someone who care. And very, very often people say, even the ones who say world, pray for world peace, will just say, I really appreciate you reaching out like that. And it’s sort of a non-threatening, socially acceptable way to do it. And you know, there are some people that are just so hostile to God that they’ll practically curse at you. And I’ve, I’ve wondered if I would experience that. And I’ve done this dozens of times and have ne have never had anybody be rude. And, but it’s also touched me that I could tell that a lot of these people has have nobody to pray for them. And there’s been several that I felt led to to pray for on an ongoing basis.
(16:08):
I mean, as the Lord would bring the them to my mind. And you know, this is evangelism at a very low level, but it’s a door opener. And Barry is a good example. And, and when I first got to know him, I said to myself, how in the world do you share the four spiritual laws with somebody every single day? <Laugh>, I found that a lot of times he would speak to someone about the Lord and it would be simple. Something as simple as praying for a waitress. But I believe that that’s valid. And the fact is he does it day in and day out. He has led many, many people to the Lord from this very simple thing. And anyone, well, first of all, is a good story. I mean, it’s an American success story. And you get to know something about his life.
(16:54):
Like you read about the life of a great man or woman of the past. He of course is still with us. But beyond that, I think that people just can catch something of his spirit. That this isn’t something you just sit in a class and you take an exam and on do, do evangelism the right way. You memorize the script, so to speak. And maybe that works for some people, but it, it doesn’t work for most people. And people just think it’s hard. I’m gonna do it wrong. I’m gonna embarrass myself. No, it needs to be an outflow of everything in your life as we’re led by the spirit of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:31):
Even if you’re passionate about cars, God can use you to bring people to Jesus. And especially in the car world, you have people that would be interested in this book who are into cars that would never go to a church. Absolutely. And so God will give him a voice to reach people.
Stephen Strang (17:47):
And he knows all the statistics when you’re with He He’ll wax eloquent about car guys, which they say include women, women can be car guys too. It’s almost like a huge fraternity or something. And, and he, we talked about this, that a lot of people that know him for television or certainly McGuire’s Car Wax, will read the book outta curiosity and they’ll get the Christian message.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:15):
Let’s talk for a moment about Charisma Media. There are a variety of ways that you help a lot of ministries. You, you have articles that go up every day about what God is doing around the world. You also have a podcast network, and I have several friends that are on your podcast network and, and you’ve helped a lot of people start to have a voice in different areas that that wouldn’t have been able to do it without you. And you have this, this, this publishing. How can people find out more about what you do?
Stephen Strang (18:49):
Well, we have many websites. They could go to charismamedia.com, they could go to my own website, which is stevestrangbooks.com. Find out the books I’ve written. I’ve only written a handful of books. I’ve published a lot more. And but, you know, this is not about us. Yes, we’d like for them to subscribe to our charisma news.com website or our website for Charisma Magazine, so on and so forth. But we’re just trying to do what we can to get out the message. And we’re blessed to live in a great country where people can afford to buy books or they can afford to buy magazines. Although a lot of the things like podcasts and other things, and the websites of course, are absolutely free supported by advertising. But but I’d like to, I could tell people that with my book, it can be pre-ordered on amazon.com.
(19:41):
It, it won’t be released until May 15th, which is just a few days before Pentecost Sunday. Actually, the pre-orders help us Amazon holds onto the pre-orders and then they bill your credit card when they ship you the book, the day it comes out. And it helps get a momentum going. The New York Times looks at all those numbers, so it would help me if you wanna help me by ordering it. These other books are available in stores. You know, we like to say wherever Christian Books are sold, that’s not literally true because you always miss some places going, buying it from some of the online book sellers, including our own. It’s called My Charisma shop.com, where you’re buying directly from the publisher, but it’s usually easier for people cuz they have an Amazon account setup, Duane, Amazon, and these, these are great books. I just got the numbers this week.
(20:34):
They’re both doing very well as new books and, and I’m just you know, we do many books and yes, they’re all important, but I, but I believe so strongly in both of these books, these books that I’m wanting to push them. And I will just say that when I was 20 years old, if you can imagine me being 20 years old, I was in impacted by Mario, who’s a few years older than I am. He was already a dynamic fiery evangelist. And I went to a conference, actually, I went, actually after I was so impacted the first time I made it a point to go to some other conferences he was at, and actually went to Resurrection City in Berkeley, which was what they called their ministry back in the day. I was powerfully impacted by him, had no idea that our lives would intertwine like this. And I’m just really honored to be able to publish his book.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:30):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism podcast. I I’m very thankful for your life. I remember a few years ago charisma did a little article about our ministry and, and since I’d grown up reading Charisma, I was like, wow, now I’ve really made it in ministry. So thank you so much for your,
Stephen Strang (21:46):
It’s not just a one and done. You know, as, as stories happen, as new initiatives are taking place we like reporting that people are tired of just bad news. People are tired thinking that Christians are always losing. No, there’s a lot of good things going on and part of our place in the media ecosphere is to report these kinds of things. So you need to help us by letting us know what God is doing in your ministry.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:18):
Thank you Mr. Strang. Appreciate you being on The Evangelism Podcast.
Stephen Strang (22:21):
Thank you for the honor.
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Lewis Alexander | Great Commandment Network
Lewis Alexander is an expert on discipleship with the Great Commandment Network. He has created a discipleship diagnosis. This tool breaks down the discipleship process into forty distinct outcomes that a Spirit-Empowered disciple needs. On today’s podcast we talk about how the evangelist can connect evangelism and discipleship.
The Great Commandment Network: https://www.greatcommandment.net/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I am excited about telling people about Jesus. Today. I have a very special guest with me, Louis Alexander from the Great Commandment Network. Thank you for being on the podcast with me. Yeah,
Lewis Alexander (00:14):
Absolutely. Daniel, thank you for inviting me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:16):
Now, you are a discipleship expert. Expert. let’s start, if you could just tell me what does the Great Commandment Network do?
Lewis Alexander (00:27):
Oh, well, we partner with churches and ministries, denominations around the, the great commandment, loving God and loving others, and then fulfilling the Great Commission, which we think the Great Commandments in the Great Commission where Jesus said, you know, make disciple makers and teach them to observe all that I’ve commanded you. And we think the great commandment is something that was the starting point, you know to love God. And perhaps even the starting point for evangelism is to love God, the heart soul minus strength, and then love our neighbors, or so
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Now sometimes great commission and great commandment have kind of been separated, but I think we really need to include both in, in what we’re thinking about. And, and then sometimes people separate evangelism and discipleship. Like you say you’re an evangelist and they say, well, what are you doing to really disciple people? But you know, every discipleship begins with evangelism. Absolutely. And so we really need both. We need good evangelism, but then we also need to take the people that respond to the gospel message and begin to raise them up Yes. In the things of the Lord. And you have actually done some really deep thinking on the discipleship process. You’re part of the, the e Empowered 21 Discipleship Commission. Yes. And over the last 12 years, you guys have been working to define spirit empowered discipleship and what that looks like. And kind of talk to me about the process and, and how you’ve been developing this.
Lewis Alexander (02:03):
Yeah, yeah. Daniel, thank you for those questions. You know, we started with the Ephesians for 11 and 12 that God gave some as apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the works of service, works of their ministry. And so we kind of started with the premise, Daniel, that saints serve. And so we we took that word serve and we looked at the Greek and Hebrew words throughout the scriptures. And there were a couple of Hebrew words that we drilled down on and the scripture verse in the Old Testament associated with them. And then several New Testament words. And we did a cluster analysis and they clustered around four dimensions that a disciple, cuz we wanted to explore, you know, what would a disciple look like if one showed up?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:54):
And so you’re trying to define Yeah. What good discipleship looks like. Yes. And, and, and how to help people grow. And so by clearly defining this, then you can measure different areas where maybe a church or ministry is being successful in discipling people and then other areas where they need to work on.
Lewis Alexander (03:14):
Yes. Because we were, we were thinking, our former perspectives on discipleship wasn’t really working. We weren’t making disciple makers, you know, who make disciples. And so, you know, a lot of the models, discipleship models were more of a rational behavioral methodology. And we found that not being effective, it wasn’t spirit empowered. So we ended up starting with a premise that these need to be relational. You know, the great commandment is very relational. Love God, love your neighbor. That’s, that’s very relational, that they could only be fulfilled. Part couldn’t only, could only be fulfilled through spirit empowerment. So there, there isn’t any of our outcomes in there of like a disciple memorize the scripture because you could be a lost person and memorize scripture <laugh>. Now we’re gonna imply that it’s memorizing scripture is, is necessary. But these outcomes, we wanted to make sure they were spirit empowered.
(04:17):
And and certainly as we, you know, as we do evangelism, you know, we want to be led by the spirit and empowered by the spirit cuz it’s, it’s a work of the spirit in which people come to Christ. So that was important to us. And so they clustered around these four areas of loving the Lord when we did this cluster analysis of the word for serve loving the Lord or serving the Lord, serving his word, ministering the word men, loving, serving and loving people, ministering to people and serving his mission.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:50):
Okay. So you have these four different areas, Uhhuh, <affirmative>, that you are evaluating. So you’ve got loving the Lord, living his Word, loving people, and living his mission. Yes. And under each one of these different categories, you have 10 outcomes Yes. Of what it would look like to be successful for someone to, to grow in those areas. Yeah. All right. So let’s start with the first one, loving the Lord. Yeah. What are some of the outcomes Yeah. That you’re looking for under loving the Lord?
Lewis Alexander (05:23):
So, for example, we, I’ll get, I’ll talk about L two, which we call loving the Lord and the kin, number two of learning to listen to and hear God. And certainly, you know, in evangelism, I want to be listening to the Lord. I mean, you know, just give you a couple of biblical antidotes, you know, of Jesus when he tells his disciples, we must needs go to Samaria. And Jesus didn’t, Jews didn’t do that. And that word must needs die in, in the Greek delta epsilon iot is means in, in, in the king, in the King James has translated must needs. We, we gotta go. I’m, I’m listening to him. I’m hearing my father and he’s saying, go, go through Samaria. And Jews didn’t do that. But so right off the bat, Jesus is challenging some of the assumptions of his disciples, and they’re going to Samaria and he’s hanging out by a well, as you would know Daniel.
(06:18):
And, and this woman comes. And so he’s waiting on a woman and listening, listening to the Lord waiting on a woman. And she comes and he has this conversation with her. And, you know, the John four passage. And I’m sure it was a shock to disciples because apparent, you know, rabbis don’t really talk to women, but apparently this one does. But listening to and hearing God, you know, and, and the Lord will will guide us. I mean, Jesus was walking through Jericho and, you know, he stops at a tree and looks up and it’s, it’s that kiss. And he welcomes him down. You know, the welcome Matt’s out and arms open. And but I think that came from any said again that use that same Greek word, we must needs go to your house. And so we think that Jesus is listening to and hearing God, and that that’s probably an important outcome that we would. All right. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:10):
All that is under L two listening to and hearing God for direction in discernment. And so yes, you would want people to grow in that as they go through the disciple Yeah. And ship process. So some of the different categories that you would have are outcomes that you’re looking for under loving the Lord would be practicing Thanksgiving and all things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> experiencing God as he really is through deepened intimacy with him. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> rejoicing regularly in my identity as his beloved. And so you’ve got 10 outcomes there. Yes. And then the second area is living the word.
Lewis Alexander (07:43):
Yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:44):
What are some of the outcomes that you’re looking for under living the word?
Lewis Alexander (07:47):
Yeah. Let’s, so we, we kind of sometimes talk about I’ll put my glasses on here so I can read <laugh> you know, do the book. So I’ll just talk about w two for a minute there. Which is outcome number two under, under the word living the word, being in a living epistle, you know, so that we’re you know, people are reading our lives, Daniel. So hopefully they’re gonna be filling the vibe from me of this guy is a safe guy. You know, we’re if I’m sitting by you on a plane and, you know we’re having a conversation, you feel safe and you feel like you can trust me and we can have this conversation. And I’ve, I’ve led people to Christ on airplanes just by trying to, to have this vibe of being a living epistle, of wanting to know and care about them, you know, in, in my life.
(08:45):
And I remember can I share a little amdo story with you? So I was, I was on a plane from Charles de Gall Paris flying to Istanbul, and it’s about a four and a half hour flight. And I had done it, you know, several times. And so I know what I’m in for. You gotta sit there and you don’t know who’s gonna sit by you. And so having some of these human interest questions like, you know, tell me one of your your most celebratory days. And so I’m sitting by this guy named Moot Lou, and he’s he’s a Turkish businessman. He’d been selling forklifts in Paris. And you know, I know I’m, I’m sitting by him for four and a half hours, so I wanna show interest in his life, you know, try to bridge to the gospel somehow.
(09:31):
And so I’m just asking him, I said, Hey, you know what, tell me about your, you know, one of your most celebratory moments in your life. And so here again, this is a Muslim guy, he’s from Turkey, and I’m an American Christian, so we’re worlds apart, you know, <laugh> and in terms of worldview. But I ask him, tell me about a time of rejoicing. And he tells me about when he got engaged with his wife, and he, you know, where he met her. He met her in a supermarket. Wow. I mean, all of a sudden this kind of me too moment of man, you know, guys in, in, in the states tried to pick up chicks in the supermarket too, you know, <laugh>. And he got her phone number in the line, and and you know, they went out and they dated for a couple years, you know, he brought her back to that same checkout line and proposed marriage to her.
(10:22):
And so he spends 45 minutes telling me this story, and, you know and I’m, I’m showing interest. I’m giving them my contact, I’m listening, you know, I’m, I have a smile on my face. I’m, I’m rejoicing with him. You know, I’m doing the Bible verse of, you know, Romans 1215, I’m trying to make a human connection. And so I’m trying to be a living epistle of Romans 1215. And and after 45 minutes, he said, well, what do you do? I said, well, I teach people how to love each other. And he was <laugh>. He couldn’t believe he was, he was like, what? And so I was able to just kind of tell him about why I do that and the love that Christ has for me, and I’m the beloved of God. And he had, he, I, you know, he was coming from a, obviously a Muslim background and the Quran, and I told him Jesus stories. I spent, you know, probably a, an hour or so just telling him Jesus stories. And he was so intrigued. He had never heard about Jesus, even Washington, his disciples, feet, things like that. And I seated the gospel, he didn’t pray to receive Christ that day, but he got a heavy dose of, of gospel. And that came from trying to be a living epistle on the plane.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:37):
Wow. That’s a great story. I really like how you’ve broken these 40 discipleship goals down into different outcomes that you’re looking for. So how do you measure Yeah. If someone is growing in these areas? Yeah.
Lewis Alexander (11:54):
Yeah. Thanks for asking. Right now we have a self-assessment of a lacker scale of one to five, you know, where going from, you know, I strongly disagree to, I strongly agree. And you just sort of self-identify where you would score yourself. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:14):
And sometimes just asking the question makes people realize like, Hey, I, I could grow. I need to grow in this area. Yeah.
Lewis Alexander (12:21):
Yeah. And then, you know, once you can identify that you know, you, you’re growing your self-awareness of identifying, oh yeah, you know, I, I need to work at learning to and listen learning to listen to and hear God. And maybe I don’t, maybe I need to ask God more. You know, God lead me who, who, who today can I share my faith with? And lead me to opportunities and see, see if the Lord is prompting you. But the more we start, you know, bringing that top mind and I can start moving the needle, you know, from a maybe a, a two mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that I disagree, that I’m listening to and hearing God to, maybe I move it to a four that, you know, I’m, I’m agreeing, I’m, I’m, I’m more consciously aware of that in my life and I’m trying to do that more.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:10):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing. Absolutely. if someone is interested in finding out more about what you do or more about the Great Commandment Network, what is your website?
Lewis Alexander (13:23):
Yeah, it’s great commandment, great commandment.net, and you’ll find a bunch of resources on there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:29):
And, and tell me a little bit more about what the Great Commandment Network does. Okay.
Lewis Alexander (13:34):
Yeah. We are a resource training ministry, and we partner with denominations and movements around the Great com, great commandment, great commission. Yeah. and so we provide resources to address freedom adequacy motivation in fulfilling the Great commandment, great commission. You know, sometimes I may want to do that, but I may have freedom issues, I may have my own fears, I may have unresolved pain or sometimes it’s adequacy. And so we create these resources. We have a lot of online resources.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:13):
You have complete courses, courses that people can go through, Uhhuh, <affirmative> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and, and learn about all this. And also how they can implement discipleship in their life and in their ministries. Yeah. Well, brother Lewis, thank you so much Yes. For being on the the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you
Lewis Alexander (14:29):
For asking
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:30):
Me. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Daniel.
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Ron Luce | Reaching the Next Generation for Jesus
Ron Luce was the legendary leader of Teen Mania. For over thirty years he has done stadium events around the world and taken thousands of teenagers on mission trips. He is driven with a passion to reach the Next Generation for Jesus. Today you will hear about his vision for Project 13 and for Jesus Global Youth Day. He also gives me advice as a parent for how to raise my teenager to love Jesus.
Learn more about Ron Luce: https://generationnext.me/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today we have a very special guest. He is a legend Ron Lu. For over 30 years, you have been passionate about reaching young people for Jesus. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Ron Luce (00:19):
Sure. It’s great to be with you, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:21):
Well, let’s start at the beginning. How did you first get this passion from God for reaching the next generation?
Ron Luce (00:29):
Well, there’s nothing I asked for. I just got on fire for Jesus when I was 16. And even in my years right after that, at o u I started reaching out to young people. Cause I figured if God could get to me, I was the worst rascal of the bunch he could get to anybody. So I started in youth ministry while I was a student. And then right after I graduated from oru. My wife and I started in this ministry called Team Mania, which we developed a number of facets. One of them was acquired the fire conferences. And so by the grace of God, he let us stand in front of a lot of young people and, and our whole heart was let’s present the gospel in a fresh way. In maybe a way, even if you’ve been in church your whole life, that you’ve never understood it before.
(01:16):
And if you’ve never been in church a way that you’ve never, it’s never dawned on you. And then invite them to go on the, on a mission trip because we figured if we can get ’em for a weekend at a conference, that’s great, but if we can get ’em for two weeks, for a month on a mission field, we’ll wreck ’em forever in a good way. You know, we’ll wreck ’em for the American Dream and all that. So we took thousands of young people on mission trips over the years, thousands of thousands to some 80 different countries teaching them to share their faith and have quiet time and to, you know, all the, you know, discipleship kinds of things. And then they teach ’em to go back home and go change the world. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:51):
Yeah, team Mania had such a tremendous impact on so many young people. And I remember when I was about 14 or 15 years old, I lived in El Paso, Texas and you were doing acquire the Fire, I think here in Albuquerque. And so I was on a youth bus. We drove up here. There are thousands of people there and you just challenged us to live for God, and you gave an altar call and I was already saved. I grew up in a Christian home and my parents were missionaries, but I wanted to make double sure that I was going to heaven. And so I responded to that. Yeah. even as a, as a young person and just that, that challenge to, to give your whole life for God.
Ron Luce (02:36):
Well, and you know, we were, we’ve ki we kind of got branded as the Oh, you’re the radical guys. Cuz we would challenge people like read through the Bible in a whole year, like the whole Bible in a year kind of a thing. Or break up with your girlfriend or boyfriend and date God for a year. Like radical stuff. And other youth ministries are like, yeah, you don’t need to be that ra we want everybody to go on a mission trip, even if you’re not called full-time, just go one time. And, but think that’s how Jesus was. You know, he didn’t water anything down. He like, like, eat my flesh, drink my blood, or you have no part of me. And then people started leaving, he goes, anybody else wanna leave? Kind of thing. And so there, there is something to, I think the, what we found over the years is the more radical, the more you ask for, the more of their heart and their life they’ll give to Christ.
(03:19):
You know? And so if you ask for less, that’s what you’ll get. And you end up wa wondering why they respect their football coach more than they respect the youth pastor. Well, the football coach demands more out of them, you know, kind of a thing. You’re going to, you’re gonna sweat bullets, you’re gonna sweat blood, you’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you know, in all of this Eat nails. And then the in mu usually in the youth ministry where they’re like begging people to come back. Coach doesn’t beg people to come back. If you don’t come, you’re off the team kind of a thing. So anyways we just, we found that like even the devotionals that we did, you know, to help young people grow in their faith, the tougher they were, the better kids came back and go, this changed my life, this changed my life. But it was like a whole bunch of memory, scripture, memory and things like that. So.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:02):
And so now your ministry is called Generation Next. Yep. And you’re really still focused on reaching the next generation. Right. How have things changed since you started? It seems like in some ways the, the young people today are dealing with even greater challenges than they were 30 years ago.
Ron Luce (04:21):
Well, there’s a lot of challenges and you don’t have to look very far to find them with technology and social media and pornography and all kinds of things. However if you look at data still, most people come to Christ before they’re 20. You know, the, and the closer you can get to 13 years old, the, the, the more likely, you know, we’ve had this, this thought in kind of youth ministry culture that if you get the cool football players saved at 1617, then he’ll influence the youngers. Well, we keep trying, but we don’t reach those guys that are not influencing. And so, but the data shows that the closer you get to 13, the more likely they are to come to Christ. So one thing that’s really beautiful that hasn’t changed is that sort of, that Bar Mitzvah age 12, 13, 14, the openness to the gospel, the openness to Christ.
(05:06):
And so in fact, one of the things we learned as I, I spent several years studying churches around the world, Lord of the most remarkable at reaching and discipling the young generation. And one of the things that I found they have in common is, I found ’em mostly outside of America, was that they really focus on reaching them when they’re 12 to 14, like the, the sweet spot, reach ’em then, and then put ’em on a pathway of growth, of radical growth in their faith for the next seven years. So that they end up at 20, 21 years old. Like they want ’em like you would hope that they would turn out lot, lot like just get ’em saved and hope for the best or get ’em saved and just bring ’em to church. But they actually put them in a rigorous, we call it deep dive disciple making, like they’re really growing intensely and they’re helping other people grow.
(05:53):
So we call it Project 13 and helping churches to adopt these best practices that we found. Because, you know, we, I love big events. I’ve stood in front of millions of kids, but big events are not enough. You have to have a process that the church falls in love with because it’s a life giving process that takes a new follower of Christ in terms of them into a solid believer that’s then multiplying their faith. Most churches kind of would ascent to that. Like yeah, they’ll nod their head, but they don’t know how to, so this is what we learned from these churches, how to, and now we’re just trying to make it simple for churches to adopt it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:27):
Okay. So let me ask you a question as a parent, last week, my son Caleb turned 13 and he’s already been acting congratulations, like a teenager for about six months. Yeah. And now he is a teenager. And so I’ve just been praying, God give me wisdom on how to raise this young man to love God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> what advice would you give me as a parent to, to raise this 13 year old to be close to
Ron Luce (06:56):
Jesus? Well,
(06:58):
First of all, I would encourage you to start right now a, a a a set of like a, a set of practices or a, a habit or almost fo like spiritual folklore where say, Hey, through your teen years, I want to see you become a better follower of Jesus. So at 13 we’re gonna do this, and at 14 we’re gonna do this. At 15 we’re gonna do this. Part of what that can be is taking discipleship tools and going through them together. So you don’t have to sit there, I’m so wise I’ll teach you. But like, hey, let’s go through this book together and then talk about it once a week. What’s the Lord teaching you? What do the Lord speak to your heart? So some of the tools we develop to help churches do this, and parents are using ’em as well, is like there’s a daily quiet time thing.
(07:44):
So they’ll write stuff down, what does this first mean to you? And then at the end of the week, there’s questions that you can discuss some questions. So what that does is it makes it makes first of all use a parent a sign of respect to your young person. Like, Hey, what did the Lord speak to you? What do you think that meant? You know, and you also get ’em in habit, like of having quiet times and talking about it, having quiet times, applying the scripture and talking about it. So if you do it all through their 13 year, and then they’re 14th year and they’re 15, this is part of what we
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:13):
Do. It’s by the time they’re 18, they’re, they’ve love
Ron Luce (08:15):
Jesus. All the fundamentals. They’re don’t just love Jesus, but they’ve developed character in their life and like they’re, they’re hardcore. You’ve memorized scriptures together, you did all, you’ve kind of been on a journey together. So that’s what I really encourage all parents take your kids on a journey with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:30):
That’s awesome. I’ll definitely do that. You also have the Jesus Global Youth Day. Tell me about that.
Ron Luce (08:38):
Well, we did our first one a couple years ago, we had about 50,000 young people come from 30 different nations. And it’s sort of a it was a global event that we signed Mal Casta to like a hundred thousand churches around the world and where they were gathering young people. And it was a kind of a, a stake in the let’s, let’s let a generation stand up for Christ and let the world see. But it also is a way to make the church aware the global church, like we need to, we, the church need to focus on young people and and let them know they’re important. Let them know they’re valued. And help pastors then have tools to go back to their nation, to their city, to their town and reach and disciple the young generation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:21):
What do you see happening in this generation? Are there signs of hope?
Ron Luce (09:28):
Well, of course in the last few weeks we’ve seen this thing at Asbury and some other schools, and I think that can be a sign of hope a beginning of something. I would just encourage people you know, for a long time what we’ve heard is for a strategy reaching the next generation, just pray for another Jesus movement, Jesus revolution. Which is really not a strategy. I mean, it’s, it’s great that it looks like it may be starting to happen, but sometimes people look back at the Jesus movement back in the sixties and seventies and they see it with rose colored glasses. There were a lot of problems too, like a lot of churches didn’t want those young people and a lot of people got saved that didn’t get discipled. So this is the chance for us as a church to go, okay, if this is really the Lord breathing on a generation, let’s lean in and do our part. They’re coming to Christ. Let’s en welcome them in our church. Let’s make sure they’re growing in their faith. They’ve had an encounter with Christ, but an encounter is not enough. They have to have repeated encounters, but they have to grow deep in their faith. And so the discipleship side of this thing, really helping them grow deep in their faith is essential. And so that we don’t have some of the catastrophes that did happen in the Jesus movement in the sixties and seventies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:38):
I have so much respect for you and just honor you for just giving your life for so many years, for, for young people, if someone’s listening and they want to connect with you and take advantage of your, your resource, I know you’ve written a bunch of books, you have a lot of material. What’s the best way for them to find out more about
Ron Luce (10:56):
You think? You just go to GenerationNext.me, me and you can find out all everything you’d want to know about our resources, discipleship Tools, project 13, Global Youth Day, all kinds of things.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:08):
Well, thank you so much.
Ron Luce (11:11):
Keep up the good work takes all of us doing our part
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:13):
Right. Amen. Thank you.
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John Albiston | Coaching Churches for Growth
John Albiston is a church growth expert who works with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada. He grew a church from 300 to 1,500 people in a span of five years. The last year he was there he saw seven hundred salvations. Then he was asked to help the one hundred and twenty churches in his district to grow. Today he shares some simple secrets that are guaranteed to lead to church growth.
Learn more about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada: https://paoc.org/
Connect with John Albiston: https://albiston.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a special guest with me, John Albertson. And you are with the Pentecostal Assemblies here in Canada, and you are a church coach. And so I love coaching, I especially love coaching evangelists, but you’re going into churches, helping churches to grow, helping them to think strategically about how to reach their community. So how did you get started doing that?
John Albiston (00:32):
Well, my story was my last church our church grew from 300 to 1500 people in the span of five years. And the last we were there, we saw over 700 salvations. That’s when I got a phone call from the Pentecostal Assemblies just saying, John, would you like to show other churches how to do that? And I was like, yes, I would love to show other churches how to do that. And that’s when we got started. I got started doing that in 2017. And when we started here in our district, we’ve got about 120 churches. We ran the numbers and we found that only 18% of our churches were growing. 82% of our churches were either plateaued or in decline. We’re happy to say that within a couple of years, by 2019, we had doubled the number of growing churches and doubled the number of annual reported salvations.
(01:26):
So we, our churches weren’t growing because we were trying to convince Baptists to come to our church instead. But no, we were genuinely reaching unchurched people in our community. Now Covid hit that threw our numbers right out the window. But now that we’re coming out of C O V and started re getting our, our bearings, it’s looking like we’ve got pretty close to 50% of our churches growing. And by the end of the year, we think we might be able to get 60% of our churches are growing, accomplishing real great commission salvation growth.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:54):
And so what are some of the things that you are helping churches with when you are encouraging them to reach out to their community?
John Albiston (02:05):
Well, one of the first things is just to understand their own purpose as a church and what they need to do in order to grow by reaching lost people. Because if you want your church to grow, what you need to do is you need to reach people in your community, bring them in, introduce them to Jesus, and then have them stay and learn how to follow him. Now, when I have conversations with pastors, like, are you doing that? Are you reaching people, introducing them to Jesus and then teaching them to follow him? The answer is, oddly enough, no. You know, we’ve been trained in Bible school and seminary, how to run services. You know, I was trained on how to be an ec eal preacher. I wasn’t taught how to speak to non-Christians. I wasn’t taught how to disciple non-Christians. You know, when when someone accepts Jesus their savior, what’s the first five things I’m supposed to teach ’em? I don’t know that that was never a class. So organizing our Church of War, actually accomplishing our mission is just something that most of us as pastors were never trained to do. And before we were too eager to blame our professors. Nobody trained those guys how to do that either. So if we want our churches to grow, that’s what we need to focus on doing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:22):
I think one of the challenges is that everyone who pastors a church has been around churches for a very long time, and so they don’t look through the eyes of a visitor or a first time guest or someone who is seeking spiritual enlightenment, who just wanders into the church. What would you tell a church to help them to make that person feel welcome?
John Albiston (03:52):
Well, I’d tell ’em a few things. One, just the importance of it. As a general rule of thumb, on any given Sunday, 96% of the people in the room are your own people. And it’s so easy and so comfortable just to focus on that. 96%, only 4% of the people in the room are first time visitors. So if I focus on my 96%, I, I know they’re vocabulary, we’re comfortable through vocabulary. When I use churchy vocabulary words, they like it. We all know what
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:23):
The rows of Sharon
John Albiston (04:24):
Is. Oh, that’s right. Like it, it just like home. Feels like home. The problem is 100% of your growth comes from the 4% and just put yourself in in, in their shoes for a second. I mean, it’s a golden rule. Like Jesus teaches us to do this. Say you’re, you know, Larry from across the street you come home from a business trip and your wife is gone. You thought you had a good marriage, but now the house is empty and you realize everything that I’ve believed about the success of my life is falling apart. And all of a sudden God is speaking to them. And if they’re like, you know what? I’m gonna try something crazy. Maybe I can find hope at church. And so I go in my desperation and need for God, I go to the church across the street and what do I hear is a sermon about Calvinism versus Arminianism?
(05:13):
And then I realize, yeah, you know what? It was a really stupid idea to come here. Okay? We we’re not talking to the people who need the gospel the most. We’re not sharing the gospel. Most churches don’t preach the gospel. Yeah, maybe if you’ve been there for a couple years, you’ll pick it up a bit. But we’re just not focusing on our job, on how we reach our community. We’re just focusing on our frozen chosen. And that’s not good for our people either, because quite frankly, they’re gonna be living kind of a weak and limp Christian life. If you’re living the Christian life where I go to a church where people are getting saved all the time, where I can invite my non-Christian friends in and I know they’re gonna have a fantastic time in their encounter. God, that’s very exciting for me. And even if I’m an introvert, it’s easy for me to invite <laugh> somebody, somebody to something I know they’re gonna love. So if I know that you’re a fanatical football fan and I’ve got two tickets to the game, it’s easy for me to invite you cuz I know you’re gonna love it. And when our churches are places where I know when you come, you’re gonna feel welcome. You’re gonna understand what’s gonna go on, and you’re gonna meet Jesus. It’s easy and exciting for me to invite you to that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:35):
And even to create that culture of people inviting their friends, I, I’m amazed as I travel the churches all over North America, every weekend I, I minister in a different place and I walk into a bunch of churches and there’s no signs showing where the children’s ministry is. There’s no sign saying whether the coffee is free or you’re supposed to throw a dollar in the, the cup there, there’s no sign showing where the bathrooms are. Like you can wander around the church for a long time just trying to find the bathroom. And I’m like, this isn’t friendly for visitors. Like, you’re not even thinking about visitors coming to the church.
John Albiston (07:17):
Oh, absolutely. That, that is a major problem. And it’s, again, we’re focusing on the 96%, we’re ignoring the four. And it, it’s such a tragedy of opportunity. So here’s the math of it. 4% of the people in your church on any given Sunday are first time visitors. Next Sunday it’s a different 4%, and next Sunday it’s a different 4% different 4%. And when you add that up over 52 weeks, you get a 200%. So you take the average attendance of your church, say it’s a hundred, over the next 12 months, you’re gonna have 201st time visitors. What would happen to your church if you kept half of them? You know? But we’re losing them because we’re ignoring them. We’re not putting ourself in their shoes. Yeah. That includes signage
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:06):
Or even know where to park. You come into the parking lot and where’s a visitor supposed to park? Or Absolut? Is there even a parking place for them?
John Albiston (08:13):
Absolutely. And when someone comes in, does anybody talk to me? Does anybody engage? Now a lot of our churches will have greeters, you know, who’ll say, hi, welcome. But I’ve, my local Walmart has greeters who say, hi, welcome. When I walk in, and I’ve been going to Walmart for I think 40 years, and in all those years, you know how many Walmart employees have gotten to know my name? Like Zero. Do you know how many friends I’ve ever made at Walmart? Zero. being friendly, whoopie, doof, we can find friendly anywhere. What we can’t find anywhere is friends. And so we need to actually love and care for those people that God are sending us because they’re already coming to our church. They’re coming in droves, people that God is calling them. And it’s hard for them to get here. Like we need to understand their journey.
(09:07):
I’ve, I’ve heard so many stories of people who would tell me that it took them three or four attempts to come to our church because they drive in, they were parked in the parking stall, white knuckling the steering wheel for 20 minutes before driving away in tears because they were too scared to come in the door. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. We don’t know the journey that they’re going through, and when they come in and we just ignore them and we’re blind to them and we don’t care for them. If you come into my church and nobody cares for you, you don’t feel loved. I can be on the stage standing on my head, juggling fire, talking about the love of God, and you will
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:48):
Not believe I’ve tried that before. I’ve tried to juggle fire
John Albiston (09:51):
<Laugh>. You won’t believe me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:53):
Yeah.
John Albiston (09:53):
But if you come in here and you feel welcome and you feel loved and you feel part of the family and like, you’re not getting just like a fake Walmart greeting that No, I feel included. I’ve never been in a place like this. I’ve never met people like, here, what is going on here? And then I talk about the love of God. You are gonna believe me because you’ve already experienced it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:16):
So walk me through the process as you’re coaching a church, what recommendations do you give them for the, for the ushers, for the song service, for the offering time, for the message, for the altar call, for the follow up process. Kinda walk me through what an ideal process would look like for a visitor.
John Albiston (10:40):
So if a church is at that stage that like, hey, they actually wanna reach people, because sometimes I have to deal with stuff like, we don’t care about a lost people <laugh>, so we have to,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:48):
So that’s a theological and a heart issue. That’s
John Albiston (10:50):
Right. So sometimes, you know, when I’m going into coaching church, that’s what we need to do the work. But they’re ought that if they’re at this stage where no, no, we wanna reach our community, what do we do? The fundamental principle is the golden rule. Put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. When I walk in here, do I know what to do when the service starts? Are you speaking in plain English? So just talk about like, choosing lyrics for your songs. There’s a, a song that’s popular in a number of churches called Reckless Love. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or not, but if you look at the lyrics of that song, 95% of that song’s gonna make sense to anybody in your community. Like, there’s one line about he leaves the 99, okay? They’re not gonna get the reference, but most of that song makes perfect sense. They’re gonna understand what we’re talking about. There’s another song that are, that is popular. Our God is the lion. The lion of Judah. Our God is the lamb. The lamb. Who is slain? Who’s Judah? Well, he’s one of the 12 patriarchs. Why are we singing about him? What’s
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:48):
Patriarch? Well, because
John Albiston (11:50):
The messianic lion goes through the lion of Judah. Why are we talking about lions? Oh, that’s symbolic. It refers to the Davidic kingdom. Who’s kingdom, okay. You see? So David was one of the descendants of Judah. Messianic line not only goes through Judah, but also goes through through David. Now Lamb saying you need not understand the sacrificial system and the Old Testament, how that pre prefigures Christ and Leviticus and the Lan of course, and Nasco logical figure, we’ve seen a book of revelation. Okay? That’s what you need to know for the song to make any sense. Okay? Did we have to make the climb that steep like half the time when people come in to our churches and don’t encounter Christ? It’s not that they rejected what we were saying, they just didn’t even understand what we were saying. It was just confusing. Gobbly good.
(12:28):
Our sermons are no better. And for our churches who actually do attempt to preach the gospel, we’re preaching the gospel in Christianese gobbly book, and they just don’t understand the words that are coming out of our mouth. So the first thing you want your church to have an impact on, people preach and sing with clarity, not to water things down. And we’re not trying to avoid offending people. I mean, we’re not gonna poke people in the eye, but okay, that’s not what we’re focusing on, is inoffensive sermons. We’re focusing on clear sermons that anybody coming in is gonna understand what we’re saying. So when it comes to the gospel, for example, I understand theologically that repentance and faith kind of a big deal when it comes to accepting Christ. But I also know that the people I’m trying to reach have never heard those words and don’t know what they mean.
(13:19):
Now, I know from studying Hebrew that the word repent, that the Hebrew route is make a u-turn. It’s how you give directions. Like go down fourth Street in repent <laugh>. So I will be on the stage walking one direction saying, I’ve been going down my own road. I’ve been the master of my fate captain of my destiny living my life the way I want to. Well, that ends here. Jesus talking about making a U-turn and following him, even when it’s scary, even when I don’t understand, I’m putting my whole life in his hands. Everything that I am, my hopes, my dreams, my sorrows, my shame, you know, my anger, my hurts. I’m putting everything I am in his hands and trusting him to make me to someone new as I follow him in a new life, in a new direction. So I explained both repentance and faith without necessarily using those words.
(14:13):
Okay? That’s a skillset we have to develop because I was raised in a church. Christianese is my mother tongue. I speak English as a second language <laugh>. So are we preaching with clarity? Are we singing with clarity? When you preach, you know, when you, for your own people, when you preach clearly in plain English, guess what your people learn in plain English. Because if I preach in gobbly G your congregation learns it in gobbly G. And then when they go out to the workforce, when they go out to the baseball game, when they go out to anything else, the only thing they know is gobbly go. Why would we be surprised that our people in our congregation are so ineffective at reaching their friends? But if we preach in plain English and explain the gospel in plain English, we’re equipping our people in plain English to reach their friends and neighbors in plain English.
(15:08):
So you wanna make the biggest difference in your congregation in being able to reach newcomers and actually seeing your own people be more effective at evangelism and discipleship. Learn how to speak in plain, ordinary English. It’s a discipline. It’s hard. People don’t know what discernment means. You, if you have to use the word, take 10 seconds, explain it to explain it. Don’t make a casual reference. Hey, just like Joseph, you know, okay, who’s Joseph? Okay, take 10 seconds to explain, give people on-ramps to what you’re talking about. And that is probably gonna make the biggest difference.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:47):
What about the follow up process for that 4%? How do we close the back door so they don’t just come in and leave, but we can retain some of the 4% that are visiting every Sunday? Well, I think
John Albiston (15:59):
The key is gonna be developing relationships of friendship. So sometimes you know, I talk about, you know, we, in order to have someone follow Jesus, they need to make f make friends with us. Because if you read your gospels, Jesus discipled the disciples within the context of relationship. So when someone say they, they raised that hand When I made that gospel call, I’ve already trained my ushers, they’re already at the back. Everybody else’s head is bowed, eyes are close, not my ushers <laugh>. They’re already at the back and they see who raised their hands, and they’ve already been trained to come up and approach them after the service. Introduce ’em. Hey, my name’s Tom, da da da, da, how you doing? Da da da da da. You know, how long have you been coming here? Da Hey, I would really like to introduce you to my pastor.
(16:47):
Is that okay now? Because I saw their hands, like when they’re my ushers, bring somebody to me. I know this is a new believer. Well then I can have a conversation with them. I can give them a new believer’s Bible and say, Hey, you know what? We’ve got this small group program called Alpha, it’s a free meal. Why don’t you come out? It’s a fantastic way to, you know, to get started. But we want to get them in relationship as fast as possible. So follow up is crucial, crucial, crucial. And we want to connect with them as soon as we, we possibly can. We don’t wanna let that get cold. And again, it comes down to the, the whole love of God experience. If they don’t f experience the love of God from us, they’re not gonna believe in the love of God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:35):
Let’s talk about the, the Canadian context here. Most of the churches that you’re, you’re working with here are in Canada. Is there anything unique to Canada that might be different than say the United States or other? Or are these principles, do they work everywhere?
John Albiston (17:52):
So I’ve used these principles in, in other countries and like, like Canada, the United States are fairly culturally adjacent. So if you’re an American coming to Canada, like the least foreign country you could possibly visit is this one. And vice versa. But I’ve seen this work very effectively in Thailand, which is a completely different culture. And that’s because we’re talking about some basic human principles. People need to be known. People need to experience love, people need to experience acceptance. And none of us feel that way when we’re being ignored. So we wanna be certainly culturally sensitive. So if you’re going to Thailand and you’ve got a habit of touching people’s heads, don’t do that in Thailand. That’s considered very rude. Mind you, seriously, dude, that’s weird here too. <Laugh>, you know, but you know, sometimes our own, we have got
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:49):
Little, let’s bring all the visitors up and I’m gonna pray for you right now.
John Albiston (18:53):
<Laugh>, sometimes in our church we develop weird microcultures. Like I remember my, my last church if you were sick, the only way to heal you was to bring you out to the front of the service in front of everybody. We would hit you in the head to try to make you fall over. And that’s how healing happens. Is there anything in the Bible says we have to do it that way? No. And we kind of realized, you know what? That’s actually kind of weird. And people coming in here are kind of terrified by what we’re doing. Maybe we should find like non terrifying ways of doing things. So there’s ways where we can think about, well, things happen in context. So you look at the Apostle Paul apostle Paul said, I am all things to all people. So by all possible means, some might be saved to the Greeks, unlike a Greek to the Jews unlike a Jew.
(19:42):
Well, that wasn’t just words for Paul. If you look at the book of Acts on how he behaves, when Paul’s in a Jewish setting, man, he turns into super Jew, Hey, I’m a Pharisee and you know, I studied on a gamma meal and he’s quoting the Old Testament left, right and center. Like, I mean, he, he puts it on really thick with the Jewish stuff. But when he is talking to a Gentile lobby audience, he doesn’t talk about any of that. In fact at Mars Hill, he starts quoting their poets and using their cultural references to bring them to Jesus. So he adjusts the way he talks depending on who he’s talking to. And I mean, we understand this when it comes to age group. You know, I’m not gonna talk about substitutionary atonement when I’m talking to preschoolers. Okay? So we, we’ve got some kind of understanding of that. Well, we need to know who we’re talking to and then adjust our vocabulary and how we explain and how we act compared to who we’re talking to.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:37):
Well, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone has some questions about how their church can be more effective at reaching their community, what’s a good way to get in touch with you? What, what’s, what’s your email?
John Albiston (20:50):
They can reach me@justjohnalbertin.com. My last name is A L B I S T O n.com. And there’s some free resources on there, but yeah, anybody can get in touch with me and I am more than happy to help.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:05):
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much and I love what you’re doing. I, I love coaching evangelists and people who are excited about reaching the lost, and I think so many churches need to have that heart for their community and, and, and for the lost, and, and not just talk about it, but take tangible steps to make it happen.
John Albiston (21:28):
Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:28):
And so, just so much love what you do and so valuable.
John Albiston (21:32):
Well, thanks for having me on here. Thank you.
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Chris Busch | How to Evangelize Through Media
Chris Busch leads LightQuest Media which specializes in media buying and advertising. Today we talk about how a media agency can help a ministry to reach people for Jesus. As a special bonus, Chris Busch shares some miracle testimonies from the life of Kathryn Kuhlman and insights from the ministry of Oral Roberts.
Check out the Light Quest Media website: https://www.lightquestmedia.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Chris Bush is the leader of light quests media, which specializes in media buying and advertising. Today we talk about how a media agency can help a ministry to reach people for Jesus. As a special bonus, Chris Bush shares some miracle testimonies from the life of Kathryn Kuhlman and insights from the ministry of Oral Roberts.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, Chris Bush. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Chris Busch (01:12):
You’re welcome, Daniel. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
And so you are leading a media agency called Light Quests Media. Can you tell me what does a media agency do for ministries? Sure.
Chris Busch (01:30):
A media agency they could do a number of things. What we do is we help people multiply their message through media, and that can be through broadcast television and radio. That can be through print books, magazines, et cetera. Or that can be through the internet, which has opened up a whole new realm of possibilities for, for people to multiply through media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:52):
And so how did you get started doing all of this work in media?
Chris Busch (01:57):
Oh, man. So I like to think that my start in media was when I was around four or five years old and a guy named Earl Roberts would come on our black and white Zenith television at home. And I would see him on Sunday mornings, and I would just spellbound not only by his preaching, but when he would pray for the sick and people would get healed and you’d see it right there, you know, on, on television. And I had little idea that later I would actually wind up a student at Oral Roberts University, and then after my student years working for Oral Roberts University and being involved in their, their television production to some extent. So that’s kind of how I got my, my start in media was largely through through Oral Roberts who was a, you know, he, he was one of the, the people that was on in the 1950s actually, that back in the day when there were three TV stations, you know, if you had a television, you had nbc, cbs, and abc, you had three choices of channels to watch and or was there on Sunday morning on one of those channels.
(02:58):
And so he became well known and very popular through television in the day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:03):
And or Roberts was very innovative in his use of media. He absolutely, he was one of the first ones to go on television. He was the, the first to have a, a national show. And it’s amazing how many people used to watch, or Roberts
Chris Busch (03:20):
Yeah. Used to be in the millions. And so when I was a student there, he, he, first, he started out on Sunday mornings, but then he started doing primetime specials, four primetime specials a year in in the evenings, which he would syndicate across the country, one hour specials. And he would have special guests stars on to kind of attract an audience, but then he would always give a, a sermon, you know, a 10 to 12 minute sermon that was embedded in the program. And that’s how he reached people. After I graduated from o u I worked at the Evangelistic Association, oral Roberts Evangelistic Association for a while. And it was not uncommon that the, the Monday after one of those specials would air, we would get over 100,000 pieces of mail.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:01):
Wow.
Chris Busch (04:02):
This was in the seventies.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:04):
Yeah. That’s amazing.
Chris Busch (04:06):
So it was amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:07):
Now, the media landscape has changed a lot in the last few years. It’s actually a much lower bar for entering media, which, which is actually wonderful. Like even right here, I’ve got a little studio set up right here in my home. And to do this 15, 20 years ago would’ve cost a lot of money. Now you can do it pretty inexpensively and you can use media to reach people. And then you used oral use to have to buy television time to go on television all over the, the United States. But now someone can film a video on TikTok and instantly get millions of views if it goes viral and, and it doesn’t cost anything. Oh, yeah.
Chris Busch (04:56):
The whole landscape has changed. Back when I worked for Oral A, a single camera cost over a hundred thousand dollars. Wow. That was in dollars of those days. So equivalent today would probably be, you know, $300,000 for a camera, a studio quality camera. So today, you know, the cost of production of come down, and then with the internet, and especially now with broadband being as fast as it is where you can transmit video very, very efficiently over the internet, the, the the bar as you say has, has really been lowered for people to be able to get into media. And so it’s, it’s really, it’s the, the shifts in media. We, we like to say that mass media has lost its mass because it used to be media was controlled by a few giant corporations, and they kind of decided what everybody got to see.
(05:42):
And now as, as the bar has been lowered, and more and more people have gotten into it, people can choose what they want to see. And and somebody who has a message and wants to get that message out, the ability to do that now, the, the financial bar to get over is not nearly as steep as it was back in the, in the day. So it’s an exciting time. I mean, media has, everything has changed rapidly with technology. Media has probably changed faster than anything. And I think it’s the most exciting time to be involved in media, in the history of media, perhaps in the history of history. I don’t know.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:16):
Yeah. And, and so what has your organization done to adapt to the change and help ministries to, to reach people for Jew? Because I think ultimately the goal of a very evangelist is to lead more people to Jesus. Yes. Whether it’s through television or TikTok or through doing Facebook posts, I mean, people as evangelists, we want to lead people to, to Jesus. And so what have you done to, to help ministries, and then how have you adapted to the changing times?
Chris Busch (06:47):
No, as you know, as an O R U grad one of oral’s premises was going into every person’s world. And so media just provides us with that ability to really, truly go into every person’s world without having to physically be there and in their presence in, in order to do that. So what we’ve done, we, we really started out more as a traditional media agency broadcast. So tell
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:11):
Us what, what would a traditional media
Chris Busch (07:13):
Yeah, traditional media, legacy media would be more like television, radio you know, broadcasting what we call linear television. Linear television is where you have a set schedule and you had to tune in at that time on that channel, or you missed it. Then DVRs came along in that loud time shifted viewing so people could actually record your show. And we find that, that for a lot of our clients that are on television, as much as 15% of their viewership is, is DVR people that are recording it and watching it their own time. And that’s really what’s shifted is the, the, the power as it were of media has shifted to the viewer as opposed to the broadcaster. The viewer has a lot more control now over what they watch when they wanna watch it. So the legacy media, television, radio is still alive.
(08:05):
It’s still reaching people, but so many other options have come along in the world of media, especially with the internet and the, and the large availability of, of, of broadband now. And I didn’t quite believe that as many people would be watching video on their telephones when smartphones came out, you know, some years back, I thought, that’s a little bit of a stretch that somebody’s gonna go from watching on a big screen like this to this thing. But it’s amazing how people have adapted, and especially the younger generation and, you know, now they can watch what they want when they want, and it’s right there in their hand and they’ve got the earbuds in. And that’s the new face of, of media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:47):
And now people call Generation Z digital natives. They were born with a cell phone in their hand almost. Right. And they, it is part of their life. They watch all kinds of content, and it’s much shorter, where oral, I think did hour long po broadcast. Yeah. And now you bring it down to about 30 seconds, which means, yeah, you have to really shorten your message, but then you can put out a lot of right short, 30 seconds short content
Chris Busch (09:18):
And reels and things like that. Yeah. Short, short content, whether it’s YouTube TikTok, whatever. Those have gotten to be super popular. And what we find is that people who are able to produce some of that, in fact, a lot of times people will take, you know, a pastor will take his sermon and have somebody go through it, and they can find those little, you know, clips of, of 30 to 60 seconds or something that they can put up his shorts and then have links to the full message. And so it gives you a chance to begin to develop a relationship with somebody through those short messages. And then you always want to have the ability for them to go beyond that. You don’t wanna just stop there. You know, you want to have links for them to follow with from that short message. If you like this, there’s more, you know, you can hear more here. And, and you can kind of grow the, the interest and grow the relationship that way.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:10):
Now you represent a variety of different ministries. Some very large ministries. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, w w what are you advising them to do and and how are you helping them right now?
Chris Busch (10:22):
Well, we’re advi well, Jesus said go into all the world, right? Yeah. And oral said, go into every person’s world. So our thing is that okay, just every available platform that you can be on and afford to be on, try to be on there, you know, with, with your message. So everything from, from the the big tech platforms, you know, like Facebook, YouTube, and that we also are cautioning our clients not to, not to depend on those platforms being there tomorrow. That ultimately you wanna really have your own website, your own app, and you wanna develop a relationship with people where they can get to your content without having to go through an intermediary like, like Facebook or YouTube. Because the reality is, is is that someday Facebook or YouTube could pull the plug on religious programming.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:15):
Very, yeah. And I, I know that some ministries are very curtailed in what they can say on TikTok, for example. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there are some of my friends are on there and they’ll get thousands of views, but then if they talk about a certain subject, suddenly it drops to zero views. They, they can push a button shadow completely turn you off, and basically controlling the message of what can be said, which is very dangerous from a, a free speech viewpoint. Yeah. But as Christians, we have to be wise in how we talk to people, how we communicate, and, and then we can grab people, hook them, and then bring them over to our website where you said we can have, right? Yeah. Bring additional content to help bring them,
Chris Busch (12:02):
Bring them up to your platform, you know, where, where you can, and then, you know, where they can sign up for an email list. Because you really want to, if you have that person’s email, that’s so much more valuable in terms of the relationship than just having that connection through a social media platform. Because like I said, it could, it could disappear. The message could get suppressed. You could get blocked. You know, we, we know all the stories that are coming out now since Elon Musk bought Twitter, you know, all the stories that are coming out. Or
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:32):
Even the FBI was trying to block some of the messages.
Chris Busch (12:34):
Yeah, yeah. And, and so but the thing is, people are there, it’s like the public square in a way, you know, that you know, Paul went up Mars Hill and there were all these people and he just stood up and began to, to preach there. Well, that’s kind of where, where our people now, well, they’re, you know, they’re Facebook, their Twitter, their TikTok their YouTube, you know, all these different platforms. I mean, YouTube is the number two search engine. And people don’t realize that. Cause they think Google Yeah, Google’s number one, well, what’s number two? Well, is it Bing? Is it duck, duck Go? No, it’s YouTube is the number two search engine in the world. So that just massive amounts of people there. So, so what we recommend to clients is, is you’ve gotta be where the people are, and you’ve gotta make, you know, contact there.
(13:18):
And you’ve gotta have it’s gotta be good content. You know, it’s gotta be well done. It’s gotta be, be well produced. People have become more sophisticated about media. So the quality of the video, the quality of the audio needs to be good. Now, it doesn’t need to be perfect especially if you’re shooting something that’s this kind of live type of thing and you’re using a phone or something, people will give you grace for something like that. But if if they, if the audio is bad, or if the video is just, you know, hard to watch, people are sophisticated one or two, three seconds, you know, and they’re gonna to be onto something else. So you’ve gotta be sure that you put the message out there with, with enough quality so that, that the lack of quality won’t drive somebody away.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:04):
So if someone’s listening and they have a, a small to to medium size ministry, and they came to you and, and said, I need some help with my media, what are some of the things that, that light Quests would do to, to help a, a, a ministry like that? What advice would you give them? Or, or how can you help them out? Well, first
Chris Busch (14:26):
Thing we wanna do is understand what they’re calling is and, and what it is they’re trying to do and, and what, what their purpose, what their mission is. And then we try to, to work within that. I mean, we don’t have like a cookie cutter thing where, okay, here’s what everybody else does, and so therefore you should do this. So it’s really important to understand somebody’s mission, who they’re trying to reach. For instance, we have a, we have a number of clients who really focus more on the United States as their mission field. We have other clients who do, who are in the United States that don’t do any media in the United States. They spend all of their media budget in, in certain foreign countries. And, and they may even have a particular country that they feel a calling toward. You know, we’re where things are focused.
(15:11):
So understanding that type of thing, understanding the, the, the mission and the calling is really important. And then it’s just a matter of developing a strategy. And this is where I also see, whether it’s in ministry, business, whatever, a lot of times people can be a little bit helter skelter and, well, let’s try this, let’s try this. You know, it’s really important, I think, to have a strategy. And that strategy can and will change over time. We’ve seen how technology, you know, advancements in technology, you better change your strategy as technology advances. But you still need a strategy. You still need to, to kind of an idea, okay, we’re doing this, we’re doing it for this reason, and be very purposeful and intentional about it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:52):
And so you really help people to develop that strategy Yes. And then to implement it. Right. That’s extremely valuable. So if someone’s listening and they want to find out more about you and, and what you, you do, what’s your website? How’s
Chris Busch (16:06):
They Our, our website is light quest media.com. So L i G H T Q U E S T M E D I a, <laugh> like quest media.com.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:15):
Yeah. So if you’re interested in finding out more about media and how to be effective at reaching people and encourage you to, to reach out to Chris Bush and like Quest Media and they’ll be able to help you out. And earlier we were talking a little bit about Kathryn Kuhlman. You, you went to her church when you were young. Yes, she was. And you were telling me after growing up a story about how you saw some miracles happen through her ministry. Can you tell us about that?
Chris Busch (16:42):
Well, I had there were a couple of ’em. One, a friend of mine that I grew up with in, in the ministry there, he was born with club feet and his feet were like, just turned almost completely upside down. And my parents were there. They saw his mother bring him to one of Kathryn Kuhlman’s services and they saw his feet and how deformed they were. And then she prayed for him during that service, and his feet became to totally normal. And they saw him afterwards. And I grew up with the guy and, you know, his feet, I’m not saying mine or normal, but his words normal as mine. Anyway, <laugh>. And then another time, my dad had had a really bad back injury from work, and he, we did not think we would be able to even go to church. Cause we drove 40 miles from New Brighton, Pennsylvania to Youngstown, Ohio for Kathryn Kuhlman’s Sunday services.
(17:26):
And so we did, just figured we wouldn’t be going, cuz dad couldn’t. And he wanted to go. He was determined to go. So my, my brother who’s 12 and a half months older than I, we, we helped him get up off the couch and, and get, you know, into the car. And he, he was stubborn German, you know, so he was gonna drive, and he got there and he was standing at the back of the auditorium. And he was one of Katherine Kuhlman’s ushers. And so somebody had told her, you know, that he had been injured. And at one point during the service, she called him to come forward, she says, is Al Busch here? And from the back, my brother and I were sitting down on the first couple of rows with what was called junior ushers. And, and we could hear from the back.
(18:04):
He goes, yes. And she said, come down here. And he came down the aisle right to the side of where we were sitting. And when he got to about the first couple rows, she said, stop. And he stopped and she said bend over and touch your toes. Well, I mean, we knew that he could maybe bend a little bit, you know, maybe 10 or 15 degrees. And that was about it. And he put his two hands up in the air and bent down, touched his toes, and was immediately healed and had no back issues from that day. He went to the doctor the next day, and the doctor, he walked in and the doctor said, what happened to you? And dad told him, you know, and the doctor was kind of skeptical and all of that, but he said, well, he said, you don’t need me anymore.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:48):
Well, what a wonderful story about what God did through Kathryn Kuhlman. What a great woman of God she was. And then you went to Oral Roberts University, and right as you graduated, oral hired you mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And you, you advanced very rapidly by the age of 26, you were a vice president at, at oru, which is pretty amazing. What was it like being around Oral Roberts? What made him effective as an evangelist?
Chris Busch (19:16):
I think what made oral so effective was that he was determined to obey God. And if he believed that God called him to do a certain thing, he was gonna do it. And we were all gonna help him do it. You know, and, and that was the thing there. He would, he was open to hear other people’s opinions and everything, but when the decision got made, then it’s like, okay, we’re all, we’re all pulling the same sled here and we’re all pulling in the same direction. And so he was really a great inspirational leader in that way. He had a great vision you know, for back when he had the healing ministry and the tents, and then to carry that forward into the university and for the Holy Spirit and healing and, and the whole Pentecostal experience as it were, to be a part of a university. You have to remember, oral came out of a, of a Pentecostal background. It was very anti-education. They believed after high school you could go to Bible school and that was okay, but don’t, you know, don’t go to university or a college or something like that because they’ll corrupt you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:24):
Well, he started a college, so I know somehow
Chris Busch (20:27):
He, he was amazing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:28):
He got over that. He got over. But thank God he did, because O R U is such a huge blessing to so many people.
Chris Busch (20:33):
And he did it, you know, coming out of a background, it would say he, he would be a very unlikely person to do it. And, and actually had to fight the leaders of his denomination, you know, who really wanted him to make it a Bible school. And he said, no, God’s called me to build a university where the students will go into every man’s world. And so yeah, he was an, an amazing visionary. And like I said, if, if once he knew that God had told him to do something, that that was it. You know, and he was, he was gonna do it, and he was gonna fight and, and overcome whatever it took to do that and stand. So we can look back on some of those people like Oral Roberts, like Kathryn Kuhlman and others, and, and look at their examples and, you know, they weren’t perfect people and we’re not perfect. And, but look at the impact that they had because they were obedient to the calling that God put on their lives. And they just said yes.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:31):
Right toward the end of a Robert’s life, I got to go to his house out in California, and I was very young, and I asked him for his advice for me as a young minister. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And he said, Daniel, obey guy. There you go. And so now anytime someone asks me for advice, I just tell ’em, obey God. Yes. You can’t go wrong doing that. No.
Chris Busch (21:52):
No. And, and I think what, what a great thing to have is your life’s legacy. You know, that he obeyed God. And what else could we, you know, what we’re looking for is that when we stand before Jesus, you know, we get that well done, good and faithful servant. And I am just absolutely convinced Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts people like that, that, that walked a walk, you know, through their whole life of, of being obedient to God in spite of flaws, in spite of mistakes and everything else, that when they arrived, you know, that’s what they were greeted with. Well done. Good and faithful servant.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:30):
Amen. Well, I pray that all of us would Yes. Hear the same thing well done. Good and faithful servant. That’s our goal. Amen. Well, Mr. Chris, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. Awesome. I appreciate it.
Chris Busch (22:43):
Be great to be with you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:44):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give anar call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:46):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (25:07):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Roman Nechay | Youth Crusades in Africa & Asia
In the past year, Roman Nechay spoke over 1,000 times to over 300,000 people and prayed with over 200,000 people to receive Christ in seven different nations. On today’s podcast he shares one of the messages that he uses at Youth Crusades to capture the attention of young people, to present the Gospel, and to lead them to Jesus.
Visit Roman Nechay online: https://www.romannechay.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
In the past year, Roman Nache spoke over 1000 times to over 300,000 people and prayed with over 200,000 people to receive Christ in seven different nations. On today’s podcast, he shares one of the messages that he uses at Youth Crusades to capture the attention of young people to present the gospel and to lead them to Jesus.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:37):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King. Welcome
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
To the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. Have a very special guest with me, Roman Nche. Thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Roman Nechay (01:12):
Thank you so much, Daniel. I’m glad to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
So you were a student at Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp, and I was one of the teachers, and then we were together over in Tanzania, and you came to me and said, is there anything that I could do to serve King Ministries? And a few months later you came over here and you spent several days with me just helping me to edit the videos for my School of Apologetics. And you put a lot of work into that. And now thousands and thousands of atheists have watched those videos and many of them have made very negative comments. They have said that this Daniel King guy is an idiot. He doesn’t know what he is talking about, but the amazing thing is that they’re listening to the gospel from those videos that you edited. So thank you for doing that.
Roman Nechay (02:06):
My pleasure. I’m just glad to be that part of that experience. And man, this is amazing that what you’re doing is you’re bringing the light of Jesus Christ to the atheist. Not everybody can do that, and not everybody is able, like, capable of bringing the gospel that way. So thank you so much Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:21):
And so last time that you were here, you were just about ready to go on an adventure to go to different nations around the world and do youth crusades. And now here we are, we’re a year later, and I want to get a report. What has God been doing?
Roman Nechay (02:40):
Amen. So last year around in the beginning of the year, around January 2nd, I left out to Rwanda. And Rwanda. We got to preach there for about two two months, and we saw many amazing things happen. So we mostly focused on youth and teenagers. And I remember just one instance where we were in a church and we got to preach on a Sunday morning to about a thousand youth. And then we started taking testimonies. And one gentleman, he came out and he testified that his shortsightedness was healed and in front of all, all his friends, I wanted to check that if, if it was true or not. So I took my Bible, I flipped it open, and I asked him, if before when you had the shortsightedness, would you be able to see this far out? And he said, no, I wouldn’t. And I said, okay, let’s test out your vision.
(03:32):
Now what does it say? And he read exactly from the Bible at a distance where he couldn’t do it before and the whole crowd exploded. They just started shouting and praising the Lord because they saw what Jesus has done. And his, his life was a miracle. So his eyes were completely restored and Jesus had done that. And of course there’s many other instances, for example, where in Rwanda there’s a gentleman who he was he was of a different religion, but afterwards he experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit so strongly that you can see in her his eyes, he was almost tearing up. He was saying, wow, I felt the power of God. I felt something on the inside of me. And now I’m a different, a different man. I’m a different person today because of what Jesus has done for me. And there was so many other miracles. It was an amazing time, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:21):
Well, Jesus is wonderful, and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever the same Jesus that healed people 2000 years ago can heal people in Rwanda. And so you were part of a Christ for all nations team there in Rwanda doing youth crusades. And I heard phenomenal reports about what God had done. And, and, and so what were some of the results? How many people did the team minister to during the ministry there in Rwanda?
Roman Nechay (04:49):
So collectively in the year 2022, Christ for all nations has seen over 1 million decisions for Christ in the, in the country of Rwanda. We literally hit so many people. I mean, Daniel Rwanda itself has about 12 million population where we hit over a million and a half population and over a million decisions for Christ. We hit one 10th of that country for Jesus Christ. So that was a phenomenal just feat with all the evangelists. And of course, it wasn’t just me on the ground and just people. There was, I think, you know, 20, 30, 40 evangelists that came and went in just that period of three months in the beginning of the year and the last two weeks in December.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:30):
What a great victory. I mean, one outta every 10 to actually pray a prayer of salvation and come to know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I I pray that we would see revivals like that happen in nations all over the world. Okay, so you were in Rwanda, but you also got to visit some other places. Where where else did you go?
Roman Nechay (05:51):
So total of seven Nations in 2022. So Rwanda, Uganda, Ivory Coast, Ghana, and then I hopped over to Asia in the middle of the year when I got to minister in south country of Bangladesh. So, and then I got to minister in Thailand and Cambodia. So all of those countries I got to visit last year. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:11):
Let’s talk a little bit about Asia versus Africa. The cultures are very different and the people are very different. In Africa, I think you can go and all the kids will run up to you and they will scream and they’re super excited. And then in Asia they might be more reserved and sit very quietly. What, what were some of the, the differences that you saw in administering in Asia versus Africa?
Roman Nechay (06:38):
Man, definitely what you’re saying is the children in Asia are so much more reserved than compared to Africa. I mean, in Africa, let’s say, especially in West Africa, would just walk through, you know, the town and kids are screaming, they’re touch, trying to touch you, they’re trying to, you know, like touch your skin and all these kids are all around you. In Asia, they’re a little bit more shy, so they just wanna first see, okay, who is this foreigner? What are, what are they doing here? And so on. And some of the culture differences, as I told you earlier, you know, in Thailand it’s not good to touch somebody’s head like that’s, that’s wrong, that’s disrespectful. And I remember one of our evangelist friends came from Russia. He’s just laying hands on these kids as in Africa, and he didn’t know this. And so we had to, we had to tell him, Hey, like we can’t lay hands and just, and kids and expect, so that’s kind of rude. So we had to explain that to them and we were learning so much on the way, like in, in Asia, just about the culture and everything. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:36):
So after this, this full year of ministry, I know that you kept careful track of all the people that you ministered to and the people that prayed with you for salvation. Give me the final numbers and statistics from the, the full year of ministry that you got to do.
Roman Nechay (07:50):
Yeah, so I got to preach over 1000 times in the whole year of 2022. I got to see over 300,000 youth face-to-face that I got to speak to about Christ with. And then over 200,000 decisions for Christ in one year of ministry. So praise God for that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:09):
What an amazing victory just to have the opportunity to, to preach a thousand times. I mean, I, if you think about a, a pastor preaching once every Sunday morning, once every Wednesday night, you know, that would be a hundred times in a year. He would have to go 10 years to preach a thousand times. And here you got to go, you preached over a thousand times. So you basically got 10 years of experience stuffed into one year. And then to have the opportunity to speak to so many people and to see so many people give their lives to Jesus. I mean, there’s some ministries that they may see a few hundred people come to Jesus in a year, and you had over 200,000. So I would say this is a, a major victory. What a tremendous opportunity that, that God gave you. And I I really celebrate with you the harvest and thank you. And it’s, it’s neat seeing you this time versus last time we were together because last time you, you had big vision and he, I feel like God’s calling me to do this and I want to do that. Well, now you come back as an experienced, a very mature minister because now you’ve gone and done it. It’s not just talk in rhetoric. You know what it takes to actually lead thousands of people to Jesus.
Roman Nechay (09:33):
Amen. And what’s also wonderful, Daniel, is not that these people just heard the gospel, but they’re actually being discipled in the process. So a few weeks ago I got a report that in Thailand, they’re out there again visiting these same places where we preached the gospel and they’re bringing, they brought the, the Christmas story to the children. So for example, they would show the video of Jesus being born and coming into this earth, dying and raising from the dead. They, they’re talking, you know, they’re preaching to them, they’re showing videos, they’re playing games with them. So, and also same thing in Uganda. There’s many people, or there’s, there’s some pastors and leaders that are visiting these places. They’re doing bible study with them. I got pictures of kids, you know, open with the Bible open studying the word of God. And so this is not just us preaching one time and leaving forever, but there’s people who are following up with these children, that these children get to grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and they get to be mature Christians.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:28):
Wow. What a tremendous blessing that is. And so Roman, let’s imagine that you’re in Rwanda, you are doing a youth crusade, and in front of you it are thousands maybe a a thousand or 1500 young people, and you have the opportunity to present the gospel to them. What does that sound like? Are you there with a suit and a tie? You have your you know you’re starting in Leviticus. What, what, what, what do you tell these kids to capture their attention and, and present the gospel to them?
Roman Nechay (11:04):
Well, first of all we try to have the African attire or wherever we are. If it’s the Asian culture, we try to have the Asian attire. So we try to be very presentable. And you know, we try to match what, what they’re wearing. That’s one thing. And another thing, before I even start preaching, you know there’s different stories or d there’s different ways that we present the gospel depends. The, the instance, it depends on the age, it depends on the, on the place where we’re preaching at. But this is how something would go. So,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:32):
So, so why are you using stories to communicate to young people?
Roman Nechay (11:38):
Well, I mean, Jesus used parables all the time. Jesus used the parables of the, of the, of the sower, going out to sow the seed. Jesus always communicated with parables because we can imagine these things, and then we connect these stories into the gospel because that’s way Jesus did it. And again, the gospel is an illustration. Jesus, he died on the cross. Jesus rose from the dead. We see that mentally. We can imagine that. And then we communicate that into our own lives. So this is why we use stories. Another reason why we use stories is because that grabs the tension of the children. You know, we don’t want to just rebuke them and say, you must repent and you must believe the gospel. They don’t understand that. So to grasp their attention, we use stories in the beginning. So they, they’re interested, they maybe they laugh a little bit, and then all of a sudden we go into the gospel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:26):
That’s awesome. Alright, well give us a story. How are you presenting the gospel to this group of young people?
Roman Nechay (12:32):
Once upon a time, there’s this one little boy, he’s walking down the street and all of a sudden he gets this idea, he wants to build a small toy wooden boat. And so he goes to the shop and he, all of a sudden he starts building this boat, and he built it, and it was so beautiful, and he decided to go and take it out for a test. So he ran down to the river, he put this boat into the river, and this boat sailed perfectly. The boy’s so happy, he’s so rejoicing, but suddenly there’s this windstorm that just blows in out of nowhere, and it takes his boat far, far away from the boy. And the boat gets lost. And the boy became so sad, he started crying. But the next day, the boy is walking through the town and all of a sudden the boy spots his own boat in the window of a shop.
(13:17):
The boy, he runs into the shop and says to the shopkeeper, shopkeeper, that’s my boat. I made it. But the shop co keeper says, little boy, somebody gave me that boat yesterday. If you want the boat, you must buy back from me. So the boy, he was determined to buy back the boat. The boy ran back home and he worked hard for three days. He helped his parents, he washed windows, he cleaned the toilets, he did everything possible to get enough money to buy that boat back. So the boy ran back to the store, and the boy paid for the boat and ran out with the boat. So happy. Then suddenly the boy lifted the boat behind the air and said, little boat, little boat. You are twice mine. First I made you, and second I bought you back. And this story relates to the gospel.
(14:01):
We are like the boat, and God is like the boy. God created us in his image and likeness. God put us here on this earth for a reason. God made us. But then suddenly we, because of sin, were separated from God. We all disobeyed God. And we fell short of the glory of God, meaning that we were not perfect and we made mistakes in our life. But then God, he liked the boy, purchased us by sending his son Jesus Christ into this world to pay for our sin. Jesus, he died on the cross. Jesus paid with his own blood. Jesus didn’t pay with gold or silver or with money or with dollars. Jesus paid with his blood dying on the cross for us. So he substituted that, that sin in our place. And then Jesus overcame death. Jesus overcame sin, and Jesus rose from the dead. And today is alive. And I have the kids repeat, say, Jesus is alive, and they say, Jesus is alive.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:55):
Jesus is
Roman Nechay (14:56):
Alive. Amen. And Jesus is the only way to God. So what we must do is we must turn from our shameful acts, from our sins, and we must, must turn to the honor and honor of Jesus. We must turn to Christ himself. And we must say no to all our sins if we lie, cheated, stolen, if we dishonor parents or our friends, if we, if we fo if we’re angry, we must turn away from all those things and follow Jesus with our whole heart. And then we’ll be saved. So then I tell all the children, close your eyes. This is a holy moment. Now you get to make a choice. Your parents, your teachers, your siblings, your relatives, they can’t make this choice for you, only. You must make this choice. And so right now, Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart, and only you can open the door to Jesus.
(15:40):
If you want to repent and turn from your sins and turn to Christ, raise your hand. If you want to give all of your life to Jesus right now, raise your hand. And so these kids all over the place, they start raising their hands with their eyes closed. And then we pray the prayer of salvation. Dear Jesus, I give you my life. Jesus, I turn from sin. Jesus, I turn to you, Jesus. Save me from my sin right now and fill me with your joy and fill me with the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. Amen. And afterwards, they, they say, amen. We say, we wanna celebrate and sing a song with you. And so we dance to this song called One Way Jesus. And they’re in Africa and Asia. They love to dance. And so we worship together with them. And afterwards we encourage them by saying this. Now you made a decision to follow Christ. Please read and re read the Bible every single day. Pray and join a local church so you can grow in the things of God and, and you can grow in your relationship with Jesus. So that’s about how it goes. Just a simple message. It’s all about Jesus. And we bring him to that decision where they get to make a decision to follow Christ themselves.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:43):
I love how sharp your message is. It goes right to the heart of the matter. You’re not wasting time in rabbit trails that don’t matter to the gospel, but you’re telling the story, presenting the gospel, and bringing kids to the point of decision. What a tremendous ministry in, in Roman, I’m, I’m so proud of what you’ve done this, this past year. You have been out there giving your life for the sake of the gospel. And God has given you a, a great reward of, of many souls that have come into the kingdom of God. And so it’s just so exciting to see what God is, is doing through you. So thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If someone wants to get in touch with you or find out more about your ministry, how can they connect with you on, on social media or on the internet?
Roman Nechay (17:37):
So I have a website, roman nache.com, R o m a n n e c h A y.com. Or they can find me on Instagram, evangelist dot roman, or Facebook, also evangelist Roman Nache. Whatever you do, please reach out to me. I’d love to get more in touch with you and just connect with you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:55):
And so if you’re listening, I’d encourage you to go to Roman’s website and to help support his ministry. By supporting him, you will be helping to bring people into the kingdom of God. So Roman, thanks so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Roman Nechay (18:11):
Thank you so much, Daniel. God. God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (18:16):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out that Daniel King’s School of Evangelism learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations, and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from an observing top evangelist, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start. The Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you, enrolled today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:17):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:38):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Bill Hogg | Advance Evangelists Summit Canada
Bill Hogg is an evangelism catalyst. His goal is to raise up a new generation of evangelists across Canada fuelled with a passion to boldly declare the Gospel. This is done through Advance Groups of evangelists that meet together every month. To find out more on how to start your own evangelism Advance Group, keep listening.
Learn More About Message Canada: https://messagecanada.org/
Start an Advance Group of Evangelists: https://canada.advancegroups.org
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King. I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. I have a very special guest with me, bill Hogg. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bill Hogg (00:11):
Delight to, to join you. Thanks for the invitation today, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:15):
So we are together at the Advance Evangelist Summit in Calgary, Alberta in Canada, and evangelists from all over the nation of Canada. And even a few other parts of the world have come together to talk about evangelism. And you have helped to organize all this. Kind of tell me the story of, of this summit and, and why God put this on your heart to bring evangelists together.
Bill Hogg (00:43):
So there’s a bit of a backstory if you want that, where God stirred my heart about the fact that in Canada, the evangelist is missing in action. There’s a scarcity of the evangelist. I mean, you might be able to quote this Rice Brooks for his doctoral dissertation scan the United States, what, 10, 15 years ago and thought maybe evangelical, charismatic Bible teaching churches, maybe one in a hundred would be graced with the gift and anointing of the evangelist. So that was part of my covid reading. You know, what do you do when you’re encapsulated in a lockdown? You read stuff and I thought Canada, it’s probably anecdotally it’s maybe one in 200. So I, I was involved in assessing coaching, training and supporting church planters and was disturbed that many church planters could not articulate the gospel with clarity, which I think is basic foundation for any kind of ministry.
(01:40):
And a lot of church planting is not evangelistic. So we used to quote Peter Wagner, who said, the most effective evangelistic methodology under heaven is the planting of new churches. But in response to that, I would quote the music composer, not the theologian called Porter, who would say, it ain’t necessarily so. So that used to disturb me. And I would meet with network leaders and church planting catalysts or denomin national officers and say, who are the evangelists in your tribe? And they would say, that’s a really good question. If I was feeling cheeky, I would say I only ask good questions. But generally, crickets would chirp in the background because they couldn’t identify the evangelists. So that used to disturb me a great deal. And, and a couple of things happened. One is I went to message trust in the UK and spoke at their first ever advanced summit where they had identified 250 evangelists in the uk, invited 170 or 170, came to the summit.
(02:48):
They probably invited all 250. It was 170 in the room. I was the closing speaker. And of course, evangelists never watched the clock, Daniel. So 170 had hemorrhage down to maybe a hundred when I was in the room. And we did a great time in ministry. And as I stepped away from that encounter, I was there with my wife, Morag. I thought, Lord, if you can identify and raise up evangelists in Jo Post-Christian England, why not here in Canada? At the same time, I’m involved in a, an entity called Church, plant Plant in Canada. We bring leaders and church planting catalyzers from across the country. And when the old church planting network, it was part of, I was the only member of our team there. So we had a facilitator. You’ve been in these rooms, they break out, they give you giant post-it notes, kind of what’s your contribution to our conversation?
(03:40):
So I’m a team member of one, a committee of one. So it’s command and control time. So I just drew the Edward Munch screen picture, ah, and then I put prison bars over it, and then I drew a gigantic foot. So I’m the only person that did any kind of cartoon, put it on the wall. People are talking about their aspirations of church planting. And I said, there’s a, I was asked to explain myself. I said, the food reminds us how beautiful on the mountains are the feet of them who bring good news. But in Canada and appointed to in Canada, we’ve imprisoned, incarcerated, sidelined the evangelist. And after we’d been there in the mountains for three days, I was driving back in the rental car, rental car filled with the presence of God. And I had one of those holy moments where it’s just almost like a stillness descends on you.
(04:34):
And I said, Jesus, I think part of the story, maybe the primary reason, the big reason you brought me to Canada is to be part of reclaiming the advance list for the advancement of the gospel. So there’s been that partial as part of the story. I could go into more of the backstory around that, but I was intrigued that what, under Andy Hawthorne’s catalytic leadership, he would be a leading gospel champion in the uk, an apostolic evangelist. And now under Ben Jack’s leadership evangelists were popping up in the uk. And I’m like, why not Canada? So our first play was when I joined message as their national director. The first event we hosted was an advance summit in November, 2019. And we gathered about 85 leaders from across the country, two ends of the spectrum, young adults who were part of a school of evangelism, seasoned statesmen, evangelists like tv, Thomas pastors with a heart for evangelism, street evangelists, proclamation, evangelists, evangelist.
(05:41):
And it was a powerful time of prophetic activation and worship and prayer in networking. We thought, Hey Lord, let’s do that again. And of course, we’ve had to navigate the dynamics of covid where we couldn’t gather. And so this is our first gathering, and part of the gathering is just to identify evangelists. We want to create an association of Canadian evangelists. We want to populate churches and ministries with advanced groups. We want to be a broker of getting the evangelist embedded in the life of the local church as a gospel agitator, as a servant, as an equipper. And see what God would do. So big ideas, Lord, give us grace to find the flames of evangelism in Canada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:22):
Well, as an evangelist, I’m very thankful for your heart to raise up evangelists. I think it’s so important. And I, I was called as an evangelist at a very young age and always had the heart for evangelism. And you start to, to try to figure out what that means. And so I looked at other great evangelists, looked at the pictures of TL Osborne and Billy Graham and Reinhardt Bonky and, and just dream about doing that someday. And then I did my doctorate ministry at Oral Roberts University and, and read all of Rice Brooks materials Okay. For my, my dissertation, which was on mass evangelism. And you know, so you grow in your understanding of being an evangelist and, and it’s so valuable what you’re doing to help people to understand what it means to be an evangelist. And so let’s talk about the need for evangelism here in Canada. You were sharing some statistics last night. Tell me, tell me about the need for evangelism here in Canada.
Bill Hogg (07:24):
Well, we’re, we’re really a gospel parch country. Daniel those joining us on the Evangelism Podcast might not realize the spiritual demography or landscape in Canada. So there’s Quebec, which is the most unreached piece of real estate in all of the America’s, north America’s, central America, south America. And of course there are Christians beyond evangelicalism, but Quebec has about 0.5% of its population who would self-identify as an evangelical using the classic, albeit reductionist, bebbington quadrilateral. Now that’s less self-identified evangelicals than in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, which is 0.6%. There’s another trend, we talk a lot about the nuns and Dunns, and of course some other social issues have been front and center, and that’s kind of been on the back burner of conversation. But there’s a story of accelerated de Christianization. So in 1961, I think 1% of Canada would identify as having no religious affiliation whatsoever.
(08:35):
Now in 2023, it’s approaching 40%. The Evangelical fellowship of Canada created a composite category of aas sns. Now who are they? They’re atheists, agnostics, spiritual, but not religious and nuns. Those nuns have got no religious affiliation. And that composite category is 50% of Canada. And in the same piece of research, which is about two years old, they say zero as the new normal. Now what are they talking about? Church engagement? Church participation. So the normal Canadian is not remotely interested in engaging with the faith community, no matter how slick the programs are or how vibrant or spiritually hot the environment is. And then the other story which we’ve unearthed is that church planting’s dirty little secret is transfer growth. So generally speaking, church plants that grow are simply recycling Christians from other churches. So where are we seeing missional engagement? Where are we seeing fruitful evangelism?
(09:48):
And frankly, a church like say Auntie Greco’s Church or Dave Coop’s church, or First Alliances Church Calgary, where they’re seeing baptisms on profession of faith is rare, now takes catalytic leadership. So a friend of mine who I didn’t mention there, passes a church in Cologna. And during the pandemic when things were on hold, he said, we are about mission, we’re not about maintenance. So it requires that kind to leadership. So even during the pandemic one year, an Anthony at Calgary Life Church saw a hundred professions of faith and baptized. 62 people during the pandemic, two of them had baptized in secret because there were Muslim converts who showed up at the church and said, is this a church that interprets dreams? And an Anthony said to me, bill, I’ve never interpreted a dream in my life, but I said, sure, we are. What have you got?
(10:40):
And they had a dream where someone in Dalin White appeared to them, and it’s like, duh, it’s Jesus. So he shared Jesus with them. Let me give you the interpretation. You need Jesus, that, that that’s exactly right. So, I mean, there’s beautiful anomalies. I would say they’re outliers, but generally what we’re seeing is a decline. So other stats would be 80 to 85% of Canadian churches have plateaued or declined. And that would include evangelical Bible, believing churches, spirit-filled churches, not simply the mainline churches who we might say, well, of course they’ve lost the gospel, but you can’t say that wholesale. So it’s about 85% of the churches now that’s using the unhelpful metrics of church attendance. Church participation, which is a lousy metric. It’s not a kingdom metric. But what it does tell us, for most churches, their best days are in yester year. And they need to experience profound gospel recalibration, deep spiritual renewal, and actually embrace a journey of change. And of course, Robert Quinn who wrote about deep Change said most organizations and most people would rather choose slow death than deep change. And he said, you’ve got a choice the hell of deep change or the hell of slow death. And so that requires courageous leadership, wise leadership, probably apostolic leadership, to catalyze around the centrality of the gospel and, and create a dream for a new day of missional fruitfulness.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:16):
And that’s why it’s so important to raise up evangelists and to elevate the gift of the evangelist in the church. We desperately need more people who have a heart to, to go out and to to reach the loss. And that’s one of the things you’re, you’re attempting to do is, is to raise up evangelists. And one of the tools that you’re using to do that is the advanced course. And, and so talk to me about how evangelists can get together and to, to commit to meet together on a regular basis and use this curriculum, which the messenger trust makes available free of charge to people all over the world. And how, how can they use this to, to help disciple and mentor evangelists?
Bill Hogg (13:01):
Great, great question. So I think if we’re, if we’re going to learn new skills or, or, or call out latent evangelistic capacity, the best way is to learn in a community and not simply learn cerebral head information. I mean, you’ve, you’ve studied at postgraduate level, and that’s awesome because James Denny said, all our evangelists should be theologians, and all our theologians should be evangelists, but I would include myself in this. Most of us, what we know is not matched by our obedience or the level of our Christ-likeness or the level of our missional engagement. And this creates a learning community where you could be a gifted leader and facilitate a group, but it doesn’t even actually require strong leadership because we’ve created a curriculum. So initially the advanced group was kinda Lucy goosey Andy Hawthorne mentoring 12 others. And for about 18 months, I don’t think it even had a name.
(14:02):
You know, maybe it would be Andy’s disciples or something. And then at one point he said, go down and do likewise. And the 12, we’ve heard this before, the 12 went out to multiply, but what they created, Ben Jack created the advanced group guide. And that is the content which you wrestle with do homework on pray into apply. And, and that’s the centerpiece of the group that meets around a, if you like, a three-legged stool around how clear and pure is your gospel. Because we can’t assume gospel centrality, the Apostle Paul says, we’re all gospel amnesia acts. Let me remind you of that, which is our first importance. So we’re kinda pressing in, how clear is my gospel? Has the gospel really taken root in my heart in life to have a gospel-centered operating system? I’m a Twitter painted with the beauty and truth and infused with the power of the gospel, but then does my life actually commend the gospel?
(15:05):
So there’s questions about our Christ-likeness, our holiness, our purity or transparency or honesty. And so there’s also a third stool, which is around stewardship of gospel opportunity. And this is with the company of a group, could be six, I think it, it’s not as good. If you drop below that small group dynamics or a group of 12, you get beyond that, then maybe the big bold extrovert dominates the conversation and the the quieter person really doesn’t get an opportunity to engage. And there’s whole life accountability questions, not simply the classic financial and sexual purity and integrity questions around the stewardship of energy and, and family life and, and work life and questions like, are you sharpening the saw, which sounds like a Stephen Covey kind of question. But around those three dynamics, the groups meet regularly, Daniel, with the goal of mutual evangelistic sharpening, basically elevated evangelism, intentionality, and intensity would be outcome or more evangelism Mojo. And Ben Jack has now created a three year mentoring guide. So there’s plenty of content. So if you’re a gifted leader, it’s just a grab bag of resources to facilitate a group that doesn’t even have to do evangelism together, but can support and reinforce each other on a journey of going deeper with Jesus and be more intentional about making him known. And Tom Phillips, who’s I think the longest serving member of the Billy Graham Teamy, served under Billy and serves under Franklin said it’s the most gospel centered evangelistic training resource he’s found. And it’s free.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:52):
Yeah. I’ve gone through all of the advanced material and it’s really tremendous. And, and so if there’s an evangelist who’s listening who want to start an advanced group, what’s the website where they can download the advanced guide?
Bill Hogg (17:07):
That’s a good question.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:08):
What’s, what’s the Canadian website? It’s a advanced or no, the messenger trust ca
Bill Hogg (17:14):
If, if you go to, this is the convoluted way cuz you put me on the spot and I’m sorry. Said. Yeah, no, it’s good. I was saying, Hey, I’m usually good at thinking on my feet. But if you go to message canada.org, you’ll see more, more of what we do. And then if you click on what we do, you’ll go down to the advance page, and there you can download PDF of the three year guide or the advanced group taster guide. Now it’s based on commitment. I think it’s the pair of a consecrated idea that you commit, you follow through, but you would meet regularly, which translates to an investment of two hours once a month. You would be committed to evangelistic sharpening. You would be committed to staying in contact maybe through a WhatsApp group and praying for each other.
(18:02):
But the, the resources free is a pdf. If if you go there, if you go to this event, we’ve got an event landing page, advance summit org g you can scroll down there and you’ll see the blue shiny three month taster guide where you can say, okay, we, we gotta be all in. We gotta prioritize this, but let’s journey for three months and see what the fruit is. And I think the fact that you meet a month apart creates a learning loop. Okay, we’ve heard this, do the homework, or we’ve heard this, put it into practice. I actually met with a discipleship pastor and, and at a large church, and they wanted to include it in their kind of Christian education curriculum for the winter. And it put about bill, if we did it six weeks in a row, I said, I’m really not persuaded by that because you, you need to have space and time to put it into practice, you know, and Steve, this fruit. So if you and I are in the group and you say, bill what, what’s the Holy Spirit asking you to do with your five that you’re focused on, your five pre questions? Well, I’m going to take so-and-so out for dinner and I’m praying for a gospel conversation. Then I meet a month later that’s giving me enough time to book the dinner. And you can say, bell, how did it go? I’d say, Daniel, pray for me. It was a complete disaster. Or I screwed up what happened?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:23):
Gives you time to test it and Yeah. Apply it in
Bill Hogg (19:26):
Your life. Exactly. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:27):
Yeah. Now I was talking to some of the, the guys that are here, and they were telling me that they’re part of an Eden group Yeah. Up in Edmonton, where they’re going into the community, living in the community, and evangelizing and discipling people. And so tell me about the Eden Group and, and, and what you’re trying to accomplish with that.
Bill Hogg (19:48):
Great question. So it started in the uk really inspired by a scripture in the book of Ezekiel that says the city that has been laid waste has become like the Garden of Eden. And so there’s a, a vision of community transformation through gospel transformation. And there could be remainers people who live in a broken postal code or a challenging community. There could be returners maybe who grew up there when this girl got a job moved out the city and they could return, or there could be relocate who hear the disruptive call of Jesus who says, as the Father has sent me, so I’m sending you. And they’re really teams of incarnation, missionaries, whooo, roots down deep. Sometimes we engage with the poor, maybe even in a paternalistic fashion where we come in, hand out some food, wander the streets and return to suburbia.
(20:45):
And I happen to live in suburbia. So I’m, I’m pointing at three fingers back at myself there. But you’ve gotta hear a disruptive call from Jesus because it’s, it’s costly. But where it started with predominantly young adults in the United Kingdom here in the call of Jesus to move into some of these challenging postal codes and communities. And there’s, there’s some unique socio-demographics in the uk. So places like Bench Hill or Charleston or, or within Shaw, within Shaw is a sprawl of a hundred thousand people in Greater Manchester. And lots and lots of these people are going backwards financially. And one of the metrics, you could look there, they’re getting free school meals. And you go, okay, is there a partner church? And is there a place of deprivation in poverty? So it’s really the story in Edmonton’s. Beautiful. She, Moses who grew up in Sri Lanka, was traumatized by things in his family.
(21:46):
And being in a war torn country was redeemed by Jesus and has a huge heart for the broken, the poor and the marginalized. So the idea as a team of people would live in gospel community, they would intentionally discern what’s the Holy Spirit doing? How can we join them? They would do community assessments. So we don’t make assumptions about what the needs are, find out what the needs are. Do some community ex Jesus in the agendas to share the love of God, to proclaim the gospel, to bless and elevate the prayer. Now the UK story is across 20 years, there’s been more than 77 0 teams deploying over 700 urban missionaries. So it feels like a movement to me. Wow. And, and they’ve seen measurable community transformation through asset-based community development as the lens. So things like isolation, crime recede, because why the people who are salt and light are living out in front of them loving the neighborhood and loving their neighbors.
(22:51):
And so th this is one of the things we’re, we’re pursuing here in Canada. We’ve got couple leading teams in Prince George, which is a city of about a hundred thousand 12 hour drive or a short hop and a puddle jumper type aircraft from Vancouver. And we’re partnering with a great church there as part of their micro church planting strategy that the Eden teams would be catalyst for micro church. But there are couples who are recruiting teams who’ve moved into low income apartments and finding out what Jesus wants them to do. Coastal Church, which has a great motto or mantra, helping make the city a better place. They’ve got a, an Eden team under the leadership of far and Angela Mcg far is grew up a Muslim in Iran, moved to Denmark, came to Canada, got hijacked by Jesus. And he’s about 15 years into a story of being an urban missionary, I think nine years as a pastor at Coastal Church. And they live in the downtown East side. And we wanna see a proliferation of that. We’re in conversations in other places. And the strange story is during Covid, the Lord’s expanded the Eden teams, you know, here in Canada where we’ve had some very challenging restrictions for what is a high-touch ministry. It’s a community engagement ministry. So, so that’s the heart of Eden. And if people hear the destructive call of Jesus to bring good news to the poor, you can reach out to us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:28):
So you’ve been involved in evangelism for many years in, in church planning and you call yourself evangelism catalyst. So what advice would you give to a young person who might feel called to be an evangelist?
Bill Hogg (24:43):
That’s a great question. I mean, I think they could learn from you, Daniel, cuz you’ve studied the great evangelists and not all the great evangelists are platform evangelists. Like I’ve got a growing friendship with Gordon, who used to be a VP of marketing with Tommy Hilfiger, and he’s having gospel encounters and he texts me all the time photographs of people, he’s led to Christ. And there’s, there’s low hanging fruits. So I think you can learn, I mean, I’ll learn how to give an altar call from Luis Pau. And, and I would consider Luis a source of encouragement, a friend, a mentor. We can be mentored by evangelist that will never actually have a cup of coffee with if we study their life. But I’m thinking as you ask that question. When I was recruited and interviewed to come on board the church planting network as national methodologist, my friend hired me and he became my boss.
(25:42):
Were no longer in that story. That’s for a different podcast. But when I was in South Africa at Cape Town 2010, the Lord spoke to me by direct immediate revelation from the Holy Spirit. He also spoke to me from exposition of scripture and conversations and, and challenged me about the evangelist being missing in action. But the Lord spoke to me and he said, I’m redeploying you as an apostolic evangelist and I want you to work with Gord Fleming. So Gord, my friend, became my boss, but he was a maniac or a lunatic. A lunatic in terms of interviews. I had 10 interviews.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:23):
Wow.
Bill Hogg (26:23):
And some of them were sneaky like guys, says, I’m just one of a cup of coffee with you and find out what’s going on in your soul. I’m like, you stinker. You’re, you’re here to scan man and man and find out what’s going on. But God wanted to make sure we’re on the same page. So there’s great wisdom in that. But one of our meetings, he said, I don’t believe in job descriptions. I said, that’s awesome. My life mission statement is, don’t fence me in. I don’t like job descriptions. Now, I had to have a job description because Revenue Canada insisted on it. But he said, if you did have a job description, it would have three things.
(27:00):
Stay close to Jesus. Ask God to break your heart for the lost and do whatever it takes to fulfill the mission. Now I think if you and I live to be Caleb’s at 85, or you and I have birthday parties when we’re 110, I think that’s our job description. And I think that would be the job description for someone. Stick close to Jesus. Jesus says, abide, abide, abide remain in me. And the primary invitation in call is not to be an evangelist. That’s the secondary or tertiary call. The primary call is to follow Jesus and to enjoy loving union and communion with Jesus. So don’t skimp on that. You know, figure out. And it’s maybe like learning to dance. If you grew up in a legalistic Pentecostal church, how do you dance dancing’s wrong? And, and then you find it’s okay to dance and you stumble around to dance for it.
(27:55):
But stumble into spending time with Jesus, immerse in yourself in the scriptures, learning to hear his voice, and then ask God to do something na supernatural to break your heart for the lost. I mean, John Piper says, it takes a miracle to have a broken heart for the lost. And I think he’s exactly right. When I was a young, obnoxious evangelist like abrasive, I’d love to go on a time machine and sit back and evaluate young belt inaction. I would get up there somewhere, I’d still get my sermons. And there were nightmare sermons. But I would be praying and because I heard Luis Pau say that he used to prep his sermons on his knees. So I would sometimes do my sermons prep on my knees, on my bed with a notebook and a Bible. And sometimes tears would splash on my Bible as I would visualize who would be there because my local church is an act of generosity and stupidity.
(28:54):
Let me loose when I was 16 and then during a pastoral vacancy, had me preach when I was in my late teens and maybe 20. And I was a, an arrogant young punk of an evangelist. But I would be weeping and I would, I would work it as a little manipulator. I would invite the neighbors, Hey, you know, I’d really appreciate your support if you’d come because they’ve asked me to preach at church. And it would mean a lot to me if you came and I’m just getting them in my evangelist crosshairs. But I would find myself weeping in the private place, but on types just weeping. If I keep the altar call and it’s stand there being been overcome and people who were old enough to be my parents would come forward in response to an altar call. Now what does that tell us?
(29:39):
A couple of things. God can use an arrogant self-important guy who hasn’t even found out who he is cuz he’s an adolescent. You don’t know who you are. But there’s a principle. And the principle is this, those that sew with tears shall read with joy. So I don’t always weep buckets for the lost but we need to invite Jesus to, to give us soft hearts. And then the trifecta was, do whatever it takes. Well I think the root of that is just be opening, obedient, and available. Don’t be ambitious for platform. Be opening receptive to opportunity. Give Jesus your yes and get a mentor or figure out how can this gift be stewarded? Cuz there’s not a ton of developmental pathways for evangelism. And one of the things we want to do is we want to find the flames of evangelism broadly. We want to support pastors in create a culture of evangelism, embolden everyday Christians. But the evangelist is uniquely catalytic for the advancement of the gospel. So we want to figure out how can we draw them in and create a heart, create a warm fire where we can hear the stories, pray for them, encourage them, resource them. So those, those are some of the thoughts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:00):
Well, thank you so much. Let’s finish by praying for those who are listening, that God would soften our hearts for the lost. Would you pray?
Bill Hogg (31:12):
Yeah.
(31:16):
Father, your heart is filled with tenderness and compassion for the lost. And we confess that we’re sometimes like Jonah the miserable prophet who has a theology of grace and mercy and salvation who can even make a, a bold declaration. Salvation is from the Lord. But like Jonah, we don’t carry your heart for the lost. When he protested that he didn’t want to come to Ninevah because he had that gut intuition that you wouldn’t judge the nites, you would extend mercy. And we thank you that you are the Lord, the Lord, gracious and compassionate, slow anger, and full of mercy. Jesus, we thank you that when you looped out on the crowds who were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd, your move with compassion. So we pray that you would baptize us with compassion. We pray that you would give us your eyes to see the lost around us and give us your beating heart for the loss. So we invite you to soften our hearts, Lord, break our hearts, give us the gift of tears and disrupt us where we’re just doing same old, same old, with a fresh revelation of your grace in mercy towards us. That we might not be like the older brother, but we would have your heart. Jesus, the faithful and true brother who came on a mission to rescue the lost because we asked this in your name for your glory. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:52):
Amen. Well, brother Bill, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Bill Hogg (32:57):
Hey, thanks Daniel. It’s been a delight. Thanks for your hospitality and the opportunity to talk about things of first importance. God bless. Thank you.
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Pentecostal History | Larry Martin
How did the Pentecostal Movement start? What did the early Pentecostals learn about the Holy Spirit as they studied the book of Acts? Who were Charles Parham and William Seymour? What is the Holy Spirit doing in the world today? We talk about all this and more with Dr. Larry Martin today on The Evangelism Podcast.
Buy the book about Charles F. Parham:
Listen to Classical Pentecostal Sermons: https://pentecostalgold.com/
Learn more about the Azusa Street Revival: https://azusastreet.org/
Support the Campaign Ministry of Dr. Larry Martin: https://drlarrymartin.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
How did the Pentecostal movement start? What did the early Pentecostals learn about the Holy Spirit as they studied the Book of Acts? Who were Charles Parham and William Seymour? What is the Holy Spirit doing in the world today? We talk about all this and more with Dr. Larry Martin. Today on the Evangelism Podcast.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:35):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now, here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:59):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Dr. Larry Martin, thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast. Thank
Dr. Larry Martin (01:13):
You, Daniel. It’s great to be here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:15):
Dr. Larry Martin is one of the premier Pentecostal historians that are alive today. He has published extensively on the roots of Pentecostalism, looking at some of the great figures throughout Pentecostal history. And he’s a great revivalist and a crusader as well. And so not only is he a historian, but he puts the power of the Holy Spirit to work in his life and ministry. And so, brother Larry, let’s talk a little bit about the roots of the Pentecostal movement, and let’s continue all the way through history to where we are today with what the Holy Spirit is doing today. So let’s begin with Charles Parham. You’ve just published a brand new book, and this is the most beautiful book of all the books that you’ve done. I, I love this book. It’s the Unlikely Father of modern Pentecostalism by about Charles Fox Parham, and it’s published by Whitaker House. And so you have done extensive research into his life. Let’s begin at the beginning. Who is Parham and what happened through his ministry?
Dr. Larry Martin (02:37):
Well, I, I believe that Charles Parham is unquestionably the founder of the modern Pentecostal charismatic movement. Some people like to spiritualize, as if, you know, it just came out of thin air. The Holy Spirit showed up, but God uses people and he used this man, Charles Parham, to be the father of the Pentecostal. He was at first he was a Methodist preacher and didn’t fit well in the Episcopal scheme of hierarchy. And so he left the Methodist Church, became more or less a holiness of evangelist, and was seeking hungry for God, looking for more, traveled all across the United States, went to Chicago where Moody School was, and Zion, where John Alexander Dowley was, went to New York, where, where Simpson was, went up to Maines Durham, Maine, and just traveled everywhere, looking for more of God. Came back to Topeka, Kansas and started a little Bible school and an old mansion there. And they were praying 24 hours a day and seeking the face of God, studying the Bible. And that’s where God showed up. And the Pentecostal movement began on January 1st, 1901.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:50):
Talk to me about that date in history and what led up to it, and then what happened on that date.
Dr. Larry Martin (04:01):
Yes, sir. The schools I said they had 24 hour prayer going. They, they studied, only studied the scripture. They didn’t have any textbooks. They didn’t study theology per se, or, or eschatology, or certainly didn’t study science in math. They studied the Bible. So it was a, it was a great environment for God to do something special. And, and Charles Parham had been interested in the idea of speaking in tongues. He had, he had encountered that up in Maine and had actually published something about him, one of his earlier newspapers. And so he had a hunger in him for more of the Lord. And he asked the students, he was going off to Kansas City to preach a, a meeting. He asked the students to study the Book of Acts, and he asked them not to congregate together, but to study separately each go of their own individual private devotional time and study the Book of Acts and find if there was any physical evidence that accompanied the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
(05:01):
And the students studied, as he said, he came back, he called them together in their main meeting room, and he began to question them what was their conclusion? And, and each of the students studying independently had pretty well come to the same conclusion that in the Book of Acts, when people were baptized in the Holy Spirit, it was evidenced by speaking in other tongues. And so they began to pray that God would give them the baptism Holy Spirit as he was given in the Book of Acts, that they would receive the Holy Spirit as the early apostles did with the evidence of speaking of other tongues. A and this sounds pretty common today among Pentecostal charismatic people, but at that time, that was an, an unordinary a very out of the ordinary thing because people had spoken in tongues throughout church history, but they only saw speaking in tongues as being a, a manifestation spirit like falling in the floor or laughing or something, like didn’t sit at anything beyond. And there were even people that called themselves Pentecostal, that, that didn’t have the baptism Holy Spirit. But as far as anyone tying the experience of the baptism Holy Spirit, with the experience of evidentiary tongues, no one had done that to this point. And so this was pretty revolutionary. It was caused a paradigm shift when it happened. And it was on January the first. But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:19):
Before we get there, okay, let, let’s talk a little bit about the Book of Acts. All right, because let’s just go through and, and look at how the Holy Spirit was poured out in the Book of Acts, cuz this is what they were doing on that day. They were just reading. They, they didn’t have textbooks, they’re just reading the Bible. They’re looking at acts correct and looking at how the Holy Spirit was poured out during the early church and believing that God could do the same thing today. So Acts chapter two, you have the day of Pentecost. The 120 disciples are in the upper room, and they’re all waiting for the Holy Spirit. Jesus told them, you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you and you should be buying witnesses. And he told ’em to go to Jerusalem and wait. So they’re there waiting Day of Pentecost, suddenly there’s a mighty rushing wind, there’s tongues of fire, and they all begin to speak in other tongues.
(07:09):
They’re, they’re all filled with the Holy Spirit, then they speak with tongues. Then Peter goes and preaches, and 3000 people are saved that day. Alright? Then you have Acts chapter four, which I like to call the, the Jerusalem refill. So Acts 4 31, it says, when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. Okay? So some of the same people that had been filled on the day of Pentecost, right, were probably there in Acts four getting filled again. Then you have Acts chapter eight when it says that when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard what was happening in Samaria, and that they had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. So when they, Peter and John had come down to Samaria, they prayed for them that they may receive the Holy Spirit because they had been baptized, the, the evangelist Philip had gone, he had baptized them, but they hadn’t been filled with the Holy Spirit yet. And so Peter and John laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. And there must have been some type of physical manifestation because when Simon, the sorcerer saw what was happening, he was amazed, and he actually wanted to pay money in order to receive it. So there must have been something physical that was happening there in Acts eight to catch the attention of Simon, the sorcerer.
Dr. Larry Martin (08:34):
That’s exactly right, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:35):
Then you come to Acts chapter nine, when Saul meets Jesus in the Holy Spirit. So he’s on the road to Damascus and Saul is, is hit with a blinding light. He sees a vision, he’s knocked off his horse, he’s blinded. He, he is Jesus appears to him and tells him to go to Anais. And so Acts nine 17, it says, Ananias went with hi went his way and entered the house and laying his hands on him, he said, brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you can came, he sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. And we know that Paul spoke in tongues because later on he says, I pray in tongues more than all of you. That’s correct. And so he was filled with the Holy Spirit, and he’s spoke in tongues.
(09:28):
Then you have Acts chapter 10 at the House of Cornelius, the Gentile. And so Acts 10 44 and 48 says, while Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, can anyone forbid water that there should not be baptized who had received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay for a few days. And so what’s really interesting, Peter is in the middle of preaching, and as he’s preach, he hasn’t even finished his sermon yet. The Holy Spirit is poured out upon them, and they all begin to speak in tongues.
(10:22):
And these are Gentiles. And it was just like on the day of Pentecost, they began to speak in tongues just like on the day of Pentecost. And it really amazed all of the, the Jews, those who were circumcised, because they thought it was, this was a gift only for the Jews. Now, what’s really interesting is that in Acts eight with the Samaritans, they were baptized in water. Then when they, the Peter and John came in, laid hands with them, then they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, in Acts 10 with Cornelius, they’re baptized in the Holy Spirit first. And then he says, why shouldn’t they be baptized in water? And and so that tells me that God is not concerned with the order so much as he is concerned with getting his spirit into every person, right? And so some people you know, they want to be very analytical and, and, and analyze everything that God does. And so you have like the, the order of salvation. First this happens, and then that happens, and then that, that happens. But it seems like to God the order doesn’t matter so much as just I want everyone to receive everything that I have to give.
Dr. Larry Martin (11:35):
Another important lesson there in, in those verses Daniel, is some people would teach that water baptism is essential to salvation, that there’s some salvation, saving grace in water baptism. But it’s clear here, they receive the Holy Spirit before they receive water baptism. Jesus said that the world receive him. So obviously these people were saved and they were saved apart from water baptism. Although it’s important to obedience the most important thing is that we receive Christ and be baptized in his spirit.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:05):
And then another time the Spirit is poured out is Acts chapter 19 verse one through seven. And then it says, when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And then Paul laid his hands on them. The Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. And there were about 12 men there in Ephesus who received. Now, just recently, you and I were together in Turkey, right? And we got to go to the, the Agia, Sophia, the the church building there built by the Orthodox Church that for a thousand years was the largest building on Earth. Well, while we were there, I flew down to Ephesus and I got to walk the, the streets of Ephesus. And it was so cool being there in that place. And I was thinking about these 12 men that had received the Holy Spirit. And what’s really interesting here in Acts 19 is that they receive the Holy Spirit, they speak in tongues, and then they prophesy. And so along with the, the speaking in tongues, which is a physical manifestation of receiving the gift, you have the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. So you’ve got prophecy gifts of healing you know, words of wisdom, words of knowledge. All these things come when the Holy Spirit comes upon someone.
Dr. Larry Martin (13:25):
Exactly something else, Daniel, about Acts 19, I think it’s really important. And that’s in the, in the, the, the wording, the translation most modern translations to the Bible. I’m certainly not against translations, and I’m not kind of a King James, only guy. But most translations phrase that, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? That’s the N I V. Almost all the new translations say, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? But the actual Greek of that is having believed, did you receive the Holy Spirit? And it is clear in the original that there are two separate incidents. You become a believer, you’re baptized in the Holy Spirit. And a lot of people have taught over the years that when you’re saved, you receive the baptism Holy Spirit. Well, when you are saved, you do receive the Holy Spirit. He’s with you. He, he was active in your salvation. But the baptism, holy Spirit, is a second and distinct work of God’s grace. And that’s proven by the original writing there in Acts 19.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:27):
And so I think these instances of what God did in the Book of Acts is not just something that happened historically. I I think this is not just description, but this is prescription for today. The Holy Spirit is God. The Bible says Jesus Christ is the same. Yesterday, today, and forever in Malachi three, six, God says, I am Jehovah, I change not. And so the Holy Spirit doesn’t change. And so the same Holy Spirit that was poured out in the Book of Acts is available to people today. God does not change. The Holy Spirit doesn’t change. You can’t say that something happened in Acts but is not needed today because God has given us his word so that we can understand the Holy Spirit, so that we can understand who he is, how he operates, what He does. And and so I think that it’s very valuable what these early Pentecostal did.
(15:28):
They went to the Word of God, and they formed their theology based on what they saw in the Book of Acts. They, they were reading God’s word, and they were, were think, okay, if we want to be like the early church, what practice should we have? Right? And and I think sometimes in the modern church, we have our theology and, and then we go and try to impose our theology on God’s word. And that’s where some verses get thrown out. Or we say, that is not for today. But really, I think what we should do is we should let God’s word form our theology rather than trying to force our theology to shape how we read God’s word.
Dr. Larry Martin (16:13):
That’s right, Daniel. What, what I teachwhen I teach this, and I will be doing that in the morning. What I teach is they were not an experience looking for a doctrine. A lot of times today, as you said, we bring our theology and then try to make the word of God comply. But we also do that with our experience. People have some supernatural experience, and then they try to look for a scripture to prove that experience. And these people went to the scripture first, they found the experience in scripture, and then began to seek an experience according to God’s word. And I think that’s the, that’s the most important distinction there, that their, their hunger was to see God do what he had had done in the past. And not just, they weren’t just seeking speaking in tongues or this baptism whole spirit. They, they called themselves the apostolic faith because they wanted a restoration of everything that happened in the Book of Acts.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:10):
All right, so let’s get back to the, the historic fact. We, we went to acts. So we went all the way back to first century Holy Spirit. Now let’s go back to 1901 and, and tell us what was happening that morning in January 1st, 1901.
Dr. Larry Martin (17:27):
It, it actually started on December 31st. The, the group that met with Paul that had a church there where they met in the old mansion, the Stones Mansion, and they were having a watch night service. A lot of churches don’t do this today, but even when I was a kid growing up, we always had a watch night service on December the 31st. And we would sing and preach and pray, and tried to at midnight when the new year started, to have a prayer meeting and pray in the New Year, pray the old year out, and the new year in, that’s what Parham’s group was doing. They were having watch night and sometimes around midnight. And you know, I probably researched this as much as anybody possibly could. And I can’t tell you if it was before midnight or after midnight or, or at midnight, I just say around midnight, they were praying.
(18:15):
And a lady at the school named Agnes Osmond she was had done gospel work. She was, by the way, all the students there, they were not like Bible school students out here at ORU that were 18, 20 years old. These were mostly mature adults that had been in the ministry. Most of them had done various kinds of gospel work, pastoring and other things. And Agnes Osmond was a a recognized gospel worker. She had a sister that was a missionary and actually died on the mission field. And so she was a, she was a mature woman of God, and she asked Charles Parum if he would pray for her, that she might receive the baptism of Holy Spirit, as they did in the Book of Acts with the evidence of speaking and other tongues. At first, Charles Parum hesitated.
(19:04):
He himself had not had this experience, but he agreed and decided he would pray for her. And when he laid hands on her, Agnes Osmond began to speak in tongues. And that moment when she had that experience was the birth of the Pentecostal movement. She was so baptized in the Holy Spirit that she spoke in tongues for days. She couldn’t speak in English. They would give her paper, and she couldn’t write in English. She’d write, they called it Riding in Tongues. I’ve seen some copies of it looks some something like chicken scratch. But that’s what they said. She was writing in tongues. And over the next few days, revival broke out there in Topeka, a number of people, Charles Palm, a number of others, received the baptism. Holy Spirit. It was such a, a phenomenal thing that newspapers came from all across America from Chicago and from St. Louis and Kansas City Newspapers came, and this revival was front page news that God was pouring out his spirit in a powerful way. So that, that was how the movement started. That was the first day.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:07):
Okay, so then talk to us some about the history of Charles Parum. You’ve written a, a great book on it. Charles Fox Parum by Dr. Larry Martin. And you, you go into some of his history. He, he was flawed as a human being, as all of us are, but God used him. What happened after the Topeka outpouring?
Dr. Larry Martin (20:36):
Several things that are important to note. One is Charles Parham believed that when they received the baptism, holy Spirit speaking in tongues, that they could go anywhere in the world and preach without learning a language that didn’t happen as they expected. It would’ve
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:52):
Been useful as a missionary to have
Dr. Larry Martin (20:54):
That it be great, and it does happen on rare occasions, but it didn’t happen generally as they thought it would. And the other thing is, he thought that this revival was going to be immediate and massive, and it wasn’t. In fact he and his wife went to Kansas City and ended up then going to Lawrence, Kansas, trying to hold meetings, tried to start another school. And almost everything he did failed. He had a child that was sick, and he was a faith healer. They didn’t believe in going to doctors and his child died, and that was a extremely difficult season for them. The, they, they become unpopular. They, his wife says they almost starved to death for a season. It was, it was a very difficult time. The movement was real. The experience was real, but the timing wasn’t what he thought it was.
(21:40):
And they wandered around in that spiritual wilderness for a while, and they ended up in a little town called El Dorado Springs, Missouri. And El Dorado Springs is one of those places in America that has a natural spring that back 125 years ago, people thought these spring waters would bring healing to them if they had whatever, rheumatism or arthritis or whatever, they’d come to those springs. And so here at Parham is a faith, healing, faith leader, praying for the sick, what better place to go than the place where all the sick people are. So he, he sets up meetings in El Dorado Springs and has a, a apartment that he’s rented there, and he’s preaching the gospel at the Springs. There’s a lady there named Mary Arthur. She was from Galena, Kansas. And Mary Arthur was really sick. She had intestinal plumbing problems.
(22:32):
She was blind in one eye, going blind in the other eye, and she didn’t wanna be there that summer. She had been there twice before. It didn’t help her, but she was so sick. Her husband insisted that she go and try to be in the water one more time to be healed. And she heard Charles Palm preach, and faith rose in her heart. She went over to the place where he was living, staying, praying for people. Charles Parham prayed for her. Well, she was so blinded that she had pain in her eyes when she saw the sunshine. So she would cover her eyes up when she was outside, and she left Paul’s home, and she had a grandchild with her that was leading her back to her place. And the grandchild flitted off the way children are doing, she’s there on the street by herself and she can’t see.
(23:16):
And she’s crying out for the child. And in desperation, she takes this cover off of her eyes. And when she did, she was completely healed. Her eyes were like 2020. She could see perfectly. And not only that, but she soon realized that everything else that was wrong with her was, well, every maladies like God had done a complete overhaul in her, and she was so excited. She went home, invited Charles Parham to Galena, Kansas, and he came there, he preached it. Her church was the Methodist church. He preached in her house, then they put up a big tent, and he preached in the tent. And that wasn’t big enough. They rented at a storefront. It was two, two separate buildings separated by a wall, took this wall out, had this massive hall, and hundreds of people came to Christ. Hundreds of people received the baptismal Holy Spirit, miracles and healings.
(24:04):
What he had thought would happen in Topeka three, four years before now begins to evidence itself in Galena, Kansas. And real Pentecostal revival broke out. It spread from Kansas over to Joplin, Missouri. Hundreds were saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit of Joplin, Missouri. And all around that four state area there Kansas and Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, all in that area. God was moving. And, and during this season, he received an invitation to go to Texas, and he went to Texas as a long story. I won’t tell it all, but he went to Texas. He was sick when he went there. God touched his body. Revival broke out in a little town called Orchard, Texas, till almost every person in Orchard was saved. Almost every family in the town was saved. And that’s when Pentecost really began to move. I I say it was born in Topeka, and it crawled around in Kansas and Missouri and Oklahoma. It got to Houston, and it stood on its feet and started walking because from Orchard, they went over to Houston, Texas, had a great meeting in Houston and
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:09):
Uhor. And one of the people that was in that Houston meeting yes, was William Seymour. Yes. And so talked to us about how he was received in Houston, and then what happened when Will William Seymour went over to Azusa Street Sure. In California. Sure.
Dr. Larry Martin (25:32):
William Seymour was African American man. His parents had been slaves. He was raised in obscurity and poverty at one time. They did a affidavit. His, his mother was trying to get a pension, and they did an affidavit, and the entire family’s possessions was worth 65 cents. All of their furniture, all their clothes, everything they owned was valued at 65 cents. Poverty, like none of us can imagine. And also in a time of great racial discrimination. He was he was in a, in an area where a group called the Knights of the White Cele were like the KKK terrorized in African Americans. He escaped that. He went up north he got saved in Cincinnati, Ohio. No, in
(26:23):
Indianapolis, Indiana. He’d been in Chicago, went to Cincinnati, ended up then in Houston. And in Houston he met Charles Par. And the way Seymour met Parum is par had a lady that was taking care of her kids and cooking for him and his family. And her name was Lucy Ferrell. And she was the pastor of a Little Holiness church in Houston. She went to Kansas with Par and Seymour pastor at her church for a little while, at least preached in the church. And so he met Charles Parham. Charles Parum had a Bible school going there in Houston. He was, he had these 12 week schools where he had teach the fundamentals of the faith. And, and Seymour went to the school. I think I should mention, there’s a lot of, lot of discussion about whether or not Seymour was in the school or outside the school.
(27:09):
Some people say he only sat in the hallway outside and the door was open. And that might have happened maybe for a season. But there’s a number of eyewitnesses who were there that says, Seymour sat in the classroom. So I think there came a time that they accommodated him in the classes, but he and Charles Par would preach together. But because of the Jim Clo Crow laws at that time, par would preach to white people and Seymour preach to black people had racists separated. And a lady there heard Seymour preach and invited him to come to Los Angeles and preach in their church in Los Angeles. And that again, changed the world. Seymour made his trip to Los Angeles, and when he got there, he preached in this hole in his church and preached on the baptism Holy Spirit, which by the way, he had not received.
(27:54):
And the church rejected the teaching and locked him out of the church. He joined himself with a group of praying people at two 14 Bonnie Bra Street, where they were seeking God every night in cottage prayer meetings, Ruth and Richard Asbury. And on April the ninth, 1906, while they were praying there at Bonnie Bra Street, the Holy Spirit fell first on a man named Edward Lee at his home. And then they went over and it fell out. The Bon Bra Street and Glory of God came down. A revival was birthed on April the 9/19/06. Within a week, they couldn’t hold their services in the little house that was overflowing and people out in the street. So they looked for a building to rent, found a dilapidated o abandoned church that had been converted into a warehouse at 312 Azusa Street. Moved in there. When they moved in, God moved in there with them. It’s probably the most famous address in Pentecostalism. One of the most famous addresses in Christianity, three 12 Azusa Street, where God came down.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:55):
What happened at the Azusa Street Revival?
Dr. Larry Martin (28:59):
It’s, it’s almost beyond description, how God moved there. They, they had services three times a day, 10 o’clock in the morning, and at noon, at seven o’clock at night. But the 12 o’clock service, excuse me, the 10 o’clock service was still going at 12 and 12 o’clock. Service didn’t ever stop before seven. So they were literally in service from 10 o’clock in the morning till after midnight, seven days a week. People came from all over the world. People would come to the train station. They had ambassadors there that would meet ’em and bring them to the mission. People in Los Angeles would be doing their business, that’d hear the singing from Ausa Street. They’d stop and be captured by it. They’d, the Holy Spirit that had stayed there for hours, hundreds were saved, hundreds of people healed and, and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Missionaries began to go out immediately to all the four corners of the earth and all across the US spreading the Pentecostal message when, when it was born in Topeka. And it crawled around in Oklahoma, Texas, and stood up, I mean, Oklahoma and Missouri and Arkansas. It stood up in Texas, and it started running in California and literally ran around the world.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (30:11):
And so people from all over came to Ausa Street. They were filled with the Holy Spirit. They began to speak in other tongues. And then many of them launched out as missionaries, going to different parts of the world, spreading this message of the Holy Spirit. Let’s, let’s talk about what God has done since then. Because now if you look at global statistics, the fastest growing part of the church is the Pentecostal Church, the people who believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. And Pentecostals originally were called Pentecostals because they believed in the power of Pentecost. And then for a while they were called charismatics, because it comes from the, the Greek ward charisma, which means gift. They believed in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And, and now places like or Roberts University are using a, a new language to describe the same experience.
(31:16):
They’re, they’re calling a spirit empowered believers, because over the years, the word Pentecostal, the word charismatic, has picked up some baggage. And, and so there’s a lot of people that they can agree with the power of the Holy Spirit. And so we are spirit empowered believers. We believe in the, the move of the, the Holy Spirit. So kind of as a historian, kind of walk me through decade by decade from this, the early 1910s until today, kind of what you feel that the Holy Spirit was doing in each decade as we’ve seen the growth of this Holy Spirit movement.
Dr. Larry Martin (31:56):
Well, as we say, the revival began there at Azusa Street in 1906. It wasn’t long after that, before the end of that decade, some of the Pentecostal denominations begin to form the church of God in Christ, the predominantly Black Pentecostal denomination formed. And the next decade, the Assemblies of God and the Pentecostal Church of God, as the movement really grew exponentially through all that period in the forties and fifties. It was marked by Great Healing Revival. Some of your, your great heroes were outta that time
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (32:33):
Period. Yeah. So you had the, the Voice of Healing Movement. Yes. Which really started with William. And then Gordon Lindsay, who started Christ for the Nations down in Dallas, Texas worked with with Branham. And Branham was an uneducated prophet, but Gordon Lindsay was a writer. And so he wrote some 200 books and, and really documented what God was doing. Then he started The Voice of Healing Magazine, and they featured articles from people like aa, Allen TL Osborn who, who else were part of the Voice of Healing. I think RW Schmbach was later on, later, later. And, and so, so they were featuring these stories of revivals that were F.F. Bosworth was part of it, and, and featuring the stories of these different people that were doing revivals in different parts of the United States. And that spread what God was doing during the Voice of Healing Revival. Alright, so that’s, that’s the forties and fifties then, then what started happening,
Dr. Larry Martin (33:48):
By the way, let me say that you mentioned Gordon. Lindsay there very important leader in that time period especially. But he was saved in a meeting that Charles Parham was preaching. So ties from the very beginning through Gordon Lindsay’s ministry, and then in the sixties and seventies, the Pentecostal denominations continued to grow. And of course, there’s always been independent fellowships, the associated with the Pentecostal charismatic movement, or the spirit empowered people, as you say. But sixties and seventies, the charismatic renewal began probably most people mark the beginning of it with pastor receiving the baptism Holy Spirit at Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, California. And he, he, he spread the message to denominational churches. And eventually Catholics began to receive the baptismal Holy Spirit. They had great Notre Dame conferences where, where it was celebrated this Pentecostal movement among Catholics. And,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (34:48):
And you had David DuPluse, who was a big part of that. I, I remember hearing one of his sermons, I think it was preached at one of the, the gatherings of people from all over the world, many different churches. And, and he quoted in Acts two, it, the, the same verse that, that Peter quoted from the book of Joel that says that the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon all flesh. And so he said The Holy Spirit being poured out, that’s the charismatic movement upon all flesh. That is the ecumenical movement. And so God does not want to be confined to just one denomination or one group of people. The Holy Spirit is available for people from every different faith tradition anyone who reaches out towards God the Holy Spirit is there to fill them and to give them power to be a witness.
Dr. Larry Martin (35:47):
Absolutely. And those the Charismatic renewal, though it was extremely strong in the sixties and seventies, it continues today. There’s still a lot of those early charismatics tried to stay within their denomination, but a lot of them were rejected by their denomination, and they ended up forming in this independent fellowships or murdering into established denominations that have continued to grow. I think one of the greatest growth today in America is among the Hispanics. And we see so many has immigrants from Latin American countries where they’ve experienced great Pentecostal revival. I know particularly in the Assemblies of God, all of the growth in the Assemblies of God is just about among the ethnic minorities. And you mentioned Africa great missionaries from Jesus and Street went to Africa and started the work there, and it’s continued and it’s just exploded with men like Reinhardt Bunky and others doing campaigns there till today. One estimate and, and different people give you a different number one estimate, 650 million spirit-filled people in the world today the largest block in Protestant Christianity. I think it’s the greatest revival in the history of the Christian Church, what God has done in the last 125 years through the
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (37:03):
Pentecostal. So I’m, I’m working on a book on the history of evangelism and what God has done through evangelists throughout the world. And there’s been a lot of research on people like, like Billy Graham and George Whitfield Jonathan Edwards, some of these early American evangelists, you know, Billy Sunday Great evangelists at the turn of the century. But there hasn’t been that much research done on the Hispanic world. And so I’m, in my book, I’m trying to document what God’s been doing in the Hispanic world, what God’s been doing in Africa, because there are great men of God in Africa that no one in America has heard of, but they’ve been responsible for millions of people coming into the kingdom of God. And so one of the early Hispanic healing evangelists, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this guy Francisco Zaba.
(38:01):
He was a Pentecostal healing evangelist, and he was one of the ones who went to the Azusa Street revival, filled with the Holy Spirit, and he began doing revivals among all of the Hispanics in America. And from his ministry, four different Hispanic Pentecostal denominations were, were formed in the early 19 hundreds. Wow. And, and so it is really neat. And, and, and then you have great Hispanic evangelists throughout history that have taken the power of the Holy Spirit. People like Cash, Luna Carlos Anak from ar, Argentina, cla Frak from Argentina, and just great pastors from all over the, the Hispanic world where God is really moving in a great way.
Dr. Larry Martin (38:47):
A absolutely. And you know, another interesting fact, Daniel, about the success of this movement, the largest church in the world is a Pentecostal charismatic church in so Korea. That being said, of course, the largest church in Asia, which would be that church is charismatic Pentecostal, the largest church in Europe is a spirit empowered church. The largest church in Africa is a spirit empowered church. The largest church in South America, spirit, largest church in the United States is a spirit empowered church. And no one dreamed in these early days of the outpouring that it, that I guess those involved might have dreamed it, but the world certainly did not dream the success of the movement. One, one man who was a denominational leader in one of the holiness denominations observed the Ausa Street Revival. And he said, if you threw a pebble into the ocean, it would make more waves than what this revival will bring to the world. And if any man should ever be recorded as the worst prophet in human history, that would be the man. Cuz
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (39:51):
There have been waves that continue to this day. All right, now let’s look into the future. What do you see the Holy Spirit doing over the next few years? Well, what can we look for and what should we be praying for?
Dr. Larry Martin (40:05):
Well, obviously we’re praying for revival places, as you mentioned, like Africa are on fire for God, and churches growing by leaps and bounds in many nations in Africa. So many, so many more millions of Pentecostal believers in Africa. And for Brazil, for example, there’s, there’s probably a quote from the Assemblies of God. There’s probably 20 times more similar to God people in Brazil than there are in the United States. And God’s gonna continue to move in Asia and Africa and Central America, south America. We need to pray that that same spirit of revival will sweep across the United States. And I’m just believing God for that. I was praying one time and after the great revival at Brownsville, and it seemed like that well, Dr. Cho prophesied and said the revival was spread from Brownsville to the whole United States, and we didn’t see it happen or hasn’t happened as of yet.
(40:57):
And I was praying one time, and I felt like the Lord spoke to me, that revival was like a hurricane. I lived down on the coast for a while in Pensacola when a hurricane stalls out off the coast. If a if a hurricane is, you know five miles out, 10 miles out, and it stalls, it’s not going away. It’s just gaining strength when it hovers over those warm waters. And I believe that the power of the Holy Spirit is maybe has stalled, but it’s not losing out, it’s gaining strength. And I’m praying that America gets hit by category five revival that’ll sweep millions into the kingdom.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (41:36):
Amen. Well, as you’re listening, if you want to be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, just like on the day of Pentecost, encourage you to, to pray and ask for the Holy Spirit, God will give you and, and fill you with the Holy Spirit. And you will have power to, to be a witness and, and to share the gospel a around the world. Let’s just finish with a word of prayer and, and encourage the people who are listening that the same Holy Spirit that we saw in the day of Pentecost that we saw in the early years of the Pentecostal movement can impact them today.
Dr. Larry Martin (42:14):
Amen. I’ve probably said this a thousand times in meetings, but I wanna say it again today for you. The reason we talk about history is not to live in the past. We don’t wanna live in the past. We’re living today and we’re living for tomorrow. But we talk about history because if God ever did anything, he can do that thing again. And if God ever moved in one place, God can move in any place. And if God ever moved on one person, then God can move on any person that means you where you are. And at this time, God can do for you anything that He’s ever done through any of the great people we studied about in history. And God wants to do that for you. And we’re gonna pray right now that God will use you. Heavenly Father, we thank you today for this podcast, the opportunity to share a little bit of the history of your work.
(43:05):
Lord, it’s not the work of man because everything that man touches becomes just human, but it is divine. And we thank you Lord, that you’ve moved among men, that you’ve used faithful men like Parham and Seymour and Gordon, Lindsay, and all the others we’ve talked about today, that you’ve used these men to bring the message of Christ to a lost and dying world. Lord, I pray for everyone listening this podcast today. I, if there’s anyone that doesn’t know you, I pray that the Holy Spirit will bring them to you. But Lord, those that are believers and are listening today, I pray you give them a new power. I pray that you give them a fresh vision. Lord, show them today that as God used others, God can use them. I pray that the same mantle of the Holy Spirit that was in Topeka and the same mantle of the Holy Spirit that was at a Zeus street, that that mantle will fall across their shoulders right now, I pray for a fresh and a new anointing. Ask your Lord that you would use these listeners to take this gospel to the whole world and change this world for Jesus’ sake. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (44:08):
Amen. Thank you, Dr. Larry Martin. Thank
Dr. Larry Martin (44:11):
You.
Evangelism Podcast Host (44:12):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (45:13):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (46:34):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Larry Martin | Pentecostal Gold
Dr. Larry Martin hosts a website called Pentecostal Gold. On this website you can find classical Pentecostal sermons from some of the greatest Holy Spriit preachers of the past fifty years. Today we talk about the power of the Holy Spirit and how you can be filled with the Holy Spirit. We also talk about how Dr. Martin started doing crusades and what he has seen God do in various nations like Ethiopia and Brazil.
Listen to Classical Pentecostal Sermons: https://pentecostalgold.com/
Learn more about the Azusa Street Revival: https://azusastreet.org/
Support the Campaign Ministry of Dr. Larry Martin: https://drlarrymartin.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Dr. Larry Martin hosts a website called Pentecostal Gold. On this website, you can find classical Pentecostal sermons with some of the greatest Holy Spirit preachers of the past 50 years. Today we talk about the power of the Holy Spirit and how you can be filled with the Holy Spirit. We also talk about how Dr. Martin started doing crusades and what he has seen God do in various nations like Ethiopia and Brazil.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:39):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:04):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Dr. Larry Martin, thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Larry Martin (01:17):
Thank you, Dr. Daniel. It’s good to be with you today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:20):
Well, I am so excited to have you. Uh, you have been doing Crusades around the world, and let’s talk a little bit about the, the Crusades that you’ve been doing. You’re also a Pentecostal historian and you have a website called, uh, Pentecostal Gold. And so that website has sermons that people can listen to from some of the greatest preachers in Pentecostal history. So let’s start out by talking about the Crusades, and then we’ll talk about the website. So let’s just begin at the beginning. How did you start doing Crusades?
Larry Martin (01:59):
That’s a very interesting story, Daniel, and, and you’re very much involved in it. I was, uh, invited to come to Ethiopia. I actually had some sky miles and I could go somewhere, and I contacted the Pentecostal Church of God and asked them if any of their missionaries needed help. And they said they needed help at a Bible school in Ethiopia. So I flew over to Ethiopia and taught at the Bible School, and I preached in a few churches and the man that had hosted me is Per Akvist. Per said, well, we’re having a crusade and we’d like for you to go with us for the crusade. And I was excited for the opportunity. I didn’t know much about the Crusade ministry or who was doing the crusade. I found out it was, uh, our friend here, Daniel King. And so pair drug me along to Daniel’s crusade.
(02:46):
And Daniel invited me to take part in the morning sessions and the teaching sessions and had an opportunity to testify before the great crowd there at the Crusade. And I’m telling you, I got bit by the crusade bug. I had really had dreamed all my life doing what, uh, I started doing with the Crusades. And uh, uh, Daniel was a tremendous blessing to me. We, we came back to Addis Ababa and, and sat down in the restaurant in the hotel, and I said, Daniel, how do you do this? And, and, uh, he began to explain some things to me that, uh, it was mostly just a faith effort that he’d scheduled a crusade and trusted God to provide the finances. And good people like you listening to this podcast were willing to give. And I pray you continue to give and support Daniel’s great ministry.
(03:35):
But, uh, he said, God provided, and he did the Crusades. And so I thought, well, if Daniel could do that, I could do that. And he gave me all kinds of resources and materials, and I went home and printed a brochure and started raising money. And, and within a year, we’d raised the money for the first crusade in Ethiopia. And, uh, we had a tremendous crusade at place called me Kenia. In fact, it was the greatest crusade we’ve had to date. We saw over 40,000 people make a first time decision for Christ. And, uh, well, I said I had been been bitten by the crusade bug before, but after we had that meeting, there was no stopping it. And we’ve been going ever since. And I just wanna publicly say thank you, Daniel. Thank you for your heart for evangelism, and thank you for your generosity and sharing your vision and your resources with me. And, and you’re my hero. So thank you so much,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:24):
<laugh>. Well, thank you. It is an honor to be able to help other ministers of the gospel. And I love coaching people in evangelism, and most of the people I coach are younger than me. Uh, young guys come and ask me questions like, how do I get started doing crusades? How do I raise money for my ministry? How do I book speaking engagements at churches? I mean, all the different aspects of, of trying to start a ministry. How do I do my accounting? How do I, uh, take care of the money once I, I raise it? And so I’ve been answering all these questions and coaching people in evangelism, and then how do I preach the gospel? How do I cast out demons? How do I pray for the sick? And I love helping people to learn in those different areas. And so most of the guys that I talk to are much younger than me. And, uh, you’re, uh, not younger than me. You’re, you’re quite a bit older than me, probably old enough to be my dad. How, how, how
Larry Martin (05:30):
Old? Maybe your grandfather.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:31):
Maybe my grandfather.
Larry Martin (05:32):
I’m 70 years
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:33):
Old Dan. 70, so I just turned 44. So I’m young enough to be your son or grandson. But, uh, it’s neat that the principles work for anyone, whether they’re just starting out in ministry. You, you, you’ve been in ministry longer than I’ve been alive, and so you, you knew a lot about ministry, but it’s amazing when you give a little key, it unlocks a door. And now you have been doing crusades all over the world. So talk to me about some of the places that you’ve gone and done crusades and what you’ve seen God do in in those events.
Larry Martin (06:06):
Primarily, uh, Daniel, we’ve been in Ethiopia. Uh, I, I think we’ve done 10 crusades in Ethiopia and, uh, different cities there. And, uh, as this, uh, give thanks to God, thousands of people have come to Christ. But we’ve seen some tremendous miracles. I I remember, uh, one young boy that was in the prayer tent that was too sick to come to the crusade he was in, as if he was in a coma. Really don’t know what was wrong with him. His mother said he had not moved in three days, and that’s that he hadn’t moved his tongue. He hadn’t blinked his eyes. He, he was really, uh, in very bad shape. And a couple of our team workers went back and prayed for him and didn’t see any visible result. In fact, the, uh, one of the pastors that prayed for him actually thought the boy had died while he was praying.
(06:53):
His, uh, breathing was so shall he thought he was dead. And, uh, he left to come back on the stage. He told his mother, said, uh, we’re gonna be praying for your son today. We believe that, uh, he’ll give a testimony tonight. And boy, by the grace of God, that night, that young boy was on the stage saying that God had completely healed him. And we followed up through Facebook. He’s still doing well. It was a miracle, tremendous miracle. We see, of course, we see things like that. And, uh, it, it doesn’t matter how many times you see it, you still drop your jaw and say, wow, isn’t God a powerful God?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:25):
Amen. Now, you’ve also been to Brazil with my friend Ruben’s Kuya, who has a great Brazilian ministry.
Larry Martin (07:33):
We have, uh, been with, uh, Ruben’s twice, and we’ll be back to Brazil two times this year. And by the way, our friend Rubens greet you, uh, we saw him this week and he said, uh, hello to Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:45):
Well, he is a wonderful friend, and I just love his passion for God. And then you’re also going in the next few months to Bangladesh, into, uh, what,
Larry Martin (07:59):
Uh, Sri Lanka.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:00):
Sri Lanka. And so tell me about what you’re gonna be doing in those places.
Larry Martin (08:03):
In both of those. We’ll have a smaller crusade. Uh, it won’t be quite as large as the ones we have in Ethiopia and Brazil, but in each crusade they’ll plat a church. So it’s exciting to know that even though it might not be preaching to 20,000 people, that when we leave the gospel will continue to be preached there through a local church out of both of those crusades. So that excites us. And, and, uh, we also had a campaign in Pakistan. Daniel, one of the most successful campaigns we had. So God’s been really good to us.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:33):
That’s awesome. Well, let’s talk about your website, which I think will be very interesting to people who are listening to the podcast. It’s called Pentecostal Gold, and it is a sermon archive of thousands of classic Pentecostal sermons. And throughout Pentecostal history, people have been on fire full of the Holy Spirit preaching the word. And for many years, these were recorded on cassette tapes, on reel to reel tapes, different things. And you have put the work in to go into collect these sermons. You’re asking permission from either the, the person who gave this sermon or from their family to, to put it up on the website, and now it’s available free of char free of charge on pentecostal gold.com. And so tell me, how did you get started collecting all of these sermons?
Larry Martin (09:36):
Uh, I think it, it started Daniel with the fact that I love preaching. You know, I love preachers and I love preaching. Over the years, I’ve, I’ve kept a lot of cassette tapes. Uh, I’ve never had a tape worm, but I think a alma tape worm. And I kept, uh, lots and lots, dozens, hundreds of cassette tapes. And I was preaching revival out in Western Kansas, and I drove out there, and there’s a long expanse of territory that there’s nothing to see or do. And I was thinking about the opportunity to share these sermons with others and felt like God put it in my heart that I should start a website. And I decided on the name Pentecostal Gold because it’s, uh, golden classics. I I don’t put anyone on the website unless they’re at least 70 years old or they’re in heaven. And that’s what I’ve been doing all the years since I started it.
(10:23):
So it’s, it is Golden Pentecostal preaching. I started asking a few of my friends if, if they had tapes they could share. And well, to be honest, I’m drowning in tapes right now. I’ve, the, the Oklahoma District of the Assemblies of God has just given me hundreds and hundreds of tapes. And, uh, at the moment I’ve got, I think 3000 and, uh, 735 sermons on Pentecostal gold. I put one up day before yesterday, I’ll probably put some up this afternoon, almost every day we work a little bit on Pentecostal Gold and, uh, some of the greatest preachers that ever lived. And, and in addition to that, some preachers that no one has ever heard of, but yet they might have been pastoring a small church in a small place, and God used them, and they have something to say. And so I believe every, every message on there is important.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:10):
Who do you feel are some of the, the greatest preachers that you feature on the site?
Larry Martin (11:16):
Well, I, I’ll start by saying some of the best known preachers on the site are like AA Allen and Jack Cole and Amy Simple McPherson, uh, David Wilkerson, Jimmy Swaggart. Those guys are all on the site. But there’s some tremendous preachers that, uh, besides them, uh, AAN Trotter, old time Pentecostal preacher. And as I said to Amy, simple McPherson’s sermons are on there, a great preacher. Uh, I had a pastor for a while in Wichita Falls, Texas named Carl Alcorn. Brother Alcorn was a great preacher. Uh, put his sermons on there, uh, just, just more than I can say. Uh, Pentecostal scholars, uh, Gordon Fee, some of his sermons are on there, just went to be with the Lord Stanley Horton, the, the, uh, probably the leading scholar of the Assemblies of God. And, uh, by the way, Stanley Horton’s parents, and, uh, his mother and his grandparents were at Ausa Street. His mother was a child at Aus Street, so had a long Pentecostal history.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:15):
Yeah. So just going through the website here, it looks like you have some, uh, Steve Hill sermons, uh, great, uh, uh, revivalist from the Brownsville Revival. And, uh, in the last few years, uh, Ms. Jerry Hill has become a friend of mine. She’s a great woman of God. And so if you want to go and learn how to give a proper altar call, you gotta go listen to Steve Hill sermons. You’ve got RW Shaumbach on here, which, uh, uh, Don uh, Donna Shaumbach has become a friend recently, his daughter. And, uh, she’s a, a great woman of God, but you can go and listen to rw and he was a protege of, of aa Allen, and a great preacher.
Larry Martin (12:55):
You don’t have any problems, brother Shamba says, you just need faith in God.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:00):
All you need is faith in God. Yeah. And, and you’ve got some, uh, I I know I’ve seen, uh, Reinhardt Bonky sermons on here before. Uh, and, and actually he is a great Pentecostal preacher. His father was a, a Pentecostal pastor in Germany. And when he was young, Reinhard Bonnke his family was persecuted for being Pentecostals. And they used to make fun of them and said that they were a cult and they didn’t know anything. And, and they were strange and weird cuz they spoke in tongues. And so he went as a missionary to Africa, and now the entire continent of Africa has turned into a Pentecostal continent because of the preaching of Reinhard Bonnke.
Larry Martin (13:46):
That’s exactly right. And, and, uh, one of your greatest heroes, uh, Dan the, uh,T.L. Osborn and his wife Daisy, both of those, I have sermons on Pentecostal Gold.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:57):
Dr. Osborn is my hero. You got John Kilpatrick, it looks like. Oh, you got, uh, brother l uh, Lundstrom, uh, uh, Lowell. Lowell Lundstrom a great, uh, traveling revivalist. Yes. He used to travel all over the United States in a bus with his family. And, uh, his daughter became one of my friends a few years ago. And it is just fascinating hearing about all the revivals they did, just traveling from city to city across the United States and, and preaching the gospel.
Larry Martin (14:31):
Yes, I remember hearing him many years ago, he preached the sermon, Daniel, I don’t think I have it on Pentecostal gold, but he preached the sermon and it illustrated it by tearing up a map and, uh, saying, when you’re young and God’s put a call on your life, it’s like a map. And then he says, you reject God’s call, and he tore the map in half and you reject God’s call. And he tore it again. And he said, and finally, you decide to answer God’s call. And there’s such a small place on the map left. And so the message was to young people, listen to God, listen to the call on your life. And those of you that are listening right now, if God has spoken you to, to do something, if he’s called you to any kind of ministry or service, don’t wait. Don’t put it off until the opportunities and the doors close. Do what God’s asked you to do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:17):
You know, there’s two ways to learn. You can learn from your own experiences in your own mistakes, or you can learn from the experiences and mistakes that that others have made that have have come before. And so it’s way easier to learn from a mentor than it is to learn from your own mistakes. And so when we’re talking about the, the move of the Holy Spirit, I, if you want to be mentored by some of these great men and women of God, I’d encourage you to go to pentecostal gold.com, listen to these sermons, and you will learn about how to preach on the power of the Holy Spirit. You will learn about the moving of the Holy Spirit, how to flow in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I think today’s generation has been weak in some of these areas. We, we have lost some of the fervor that some of the, the earlier Pentecostals had.
(16:17):
And, and I think we need to go back and, and listen to them, dig up these roots of revival and, and learn from the, these great men and women of God. And I think if you’ll do that, you will be more on fire and you can take the same message, communicate it in new terms, new language that today’s generation can understand and relate to. But we need the power of the Holy Spirit in our ministries today. We cannot get away from that. Now, Dr. Larry, this week you are actually preaching a revival at a church, uh, in Bixby right near Tulsa, Oklahoma here. And it’s the first Assemblies of God pastored by Pastor David Dillon. Great man of God. And he’s pastored there, uh, for 28 years, 38, 38 years. He’s pastored there. And, uh, just continued to, to preach about Jesus in Bixby all of these years. And it’s really interesting that you’re doing a six night revival that a lot of churches nowadays don’t do six night revivals anymore. They used to, right. I mean, uh, uh, 50 years ago you would go six nights and then you might go another two or three weeks in revival meetings. But tell, tell me a testimony or something that happened this week as you’ve been preaching there in Bixie. Well,
Larry Martin (17:42):
We, we’ve been enjoying ourselves. I’ve, I’ve preached here in Bixby many times and, and by the way, be before I say that, let me say it’s good to be here with you in your home, in your studio, Daniel. We’ve done this podcast before, but we had to do it from my home in Duncan and yours here. So it’s good to be with you here in Tulsa. But, uh, out at Bixby, uh, Sunday night, we had a couple of young people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And Monday night, a lady received the baptism Holy Spirit. So God is moving God’s alive in Bixby, Oklahoma as he is certainly alive where you are.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:14):
Yeah, I saw on, on Facebook you said a couple people were filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes. And so that is just so wonderful to hear that, that even now people are, are being filled with the Holy Spirit and, and I think we all need the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Uh, we need to, to receive the Holy Spirit and be filled and refilled over and over again. Uh, and, and, uh, we, we we need the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Larry Martin (18:38):
Yes, we do. And and you mentioned earlier the power of the Holy Spirit, and it’s the, the power of preaching. One, one of the reasons that I, I love Pentecostal Gold and I work so hard on it, is because I, I believe in the value of preaching. It seems to me that we’re living in a time in a lot of churches have discounted the value of preaching, and they’ve gone with more ideas, dialogue, and different things. But it is the power of the preaching of the gospel that brings the loss to Christ. And, uh, especially when it’s anointed by the Holy Spirit’s, uh, great power and strength. And so we believe in preaching.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:15):
Amen. Well, tell me one of your favorite sermons. What, what are some of the, the favorite things that you like to talk about?
Larry Martin (19:22):
Uh, you’re talking about on Pentecostal Gold?
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:24):
Well, no, uh, of your personal sermons that if you’re preaching a revival and you wanna stir people up, well, what do you say to them? Well, there’s
Larry Martin (19:32):
Better preaching on Pentecostal gold <laugh> than probably my sermons Daniel. But, uh, one, one of the, uh, uh, favorite sermons of mine lately is I’ve been preaching, it is no secret what God can do. The Bible says that the secret things belong to the Lord. So there are some things that we don’t know, but what we do know is that Jesus saves and that Jesus heals and that Jesus delivers. And that is no secret because he does it so that all the world can see. And I love preaching on that. I, I like to preach about the coming of Christ and, and, uh, preach a great deal on the baptism Holy Spirit. And when I used to teach it at, uh, Brownsville Revival School of Ministry, they called me Dr. Holy Ghost because I put such emphasis on him and his power.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:20):
Talk to me a about the Holy Spirit and how you lead people into being filled with the Holy Spirit. Give, gimme a little sermon,
Larry Martin (20:29):
A little sermon on, uh,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:31):
Like if someone’s listening Uhhuh <affirmative> and they’ve never been filled with the Holy Spirit, what would you say to them?
Larry Martin (20:37):
Well, the, the first thing I would say is you have to have a desire. You have to have a hunger. You have to understand that God wants you to have the baptism, holy Spirit. A lot of people think, well, that’s for someone else. I’m not sure it’s for me. But the truth is, God wants every believer to receive the baptism. Holy Spirit, he said in Acts chapter two, it was for everyone. It’s for those that were as far off, for as many as the Lord should call. So you, you understand that God wants you to receive. And when you understand that, then you have a hunger. Really, if you’re a believer of any kind, you want more of God and you have a hunger for God, and then all you have to do is ask and receive. I used to believe growing up in Pentecostal church that people had to Terry for the Holy Ghost, you had to wait.
(21:18):
Well, they only carried in the upper room because the Holy Spirit had not been given yet. But he’s been given to you. And if you wanna receive, if you want the baptism, the Holy Spirit, you can receive right here today. I, I give people, uh, some practical instruction. Not everyone receives the baptism, the Holy Spirit in the same way. Sometimes he’ll come on, people like just a, a river flowing out of your belly. As the Jesus said, sometimes people, uh, their tongue gets thick. It’s hard for ’em to talk, but just practical things on receiving. And, uh, by the grace of God, we’ve seen thousands of people receive the baptism. Holy Spirit over these many years,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:55):
One of my favorite memories was in Ethiopia. We were in a city called Lalo Kele, uh, with, uh, brother Per Aus in Joshua campaign there. And on the, the last night, we had about 55,000 people. And you know, each night it gets bigger. So the first day you might have 10,000, and then it doubles, and then it doubles again. Well, by the, by the ending, we had about 55,000 people. And I had announced to the people that it was Holy Spirit Day and all, it’s on a Sunday. So all the churches, they came dressed up in their beautiful gowns, many different colors. Each church had a different color represented, and everyone was shouting and, and praising God. And we’d invited an Assembly of God, pastor from ATIs Ababa to come out. And I asked him to share his testimony of how he was filled with the Holy Spirit.
(22:49):
And then I shared for a little bit on the Holy Spirit, and then we prayed for everyone to be filled, and then people began speaking in tongues. And it was like a mighty rushing wind. The, the, the, the sound of it was this massive roar. Imagine 55,000 people all receiving their prayer language at the same time and beginning to pray in other tongues. And everyone just began to pray in the Holy Spirit. And it was just one of the, the greatest e experiences that I’ve ever had as a minister to see that many people be filled with the Holy Spirit. And we had so many miracles that day, so many people saved. It was amazing. When you give a place for the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit shows up and he does amazing things.
Larry Martin (23:41):
A a as you described that, Daniel, it’s impossible for people who were not there to know what that feels like. I mean, I’ve been on that field and seen God do a similar thing. And it is, it is just so awesome. It’s unbelievable the power that you feel and the anointing.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:58):
It’s like on the day of, of Pentecost. Yes. On the day of Pentecost, is that a, a mighty rushing wind went through the upper room, tongues of fire appeared above their heads. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak in tongues. And, and then Peter goes out and preaches and 3000 people get saved. And, and really ultimately that’s the purpose for the Holy Spirit. That’s right. The Holy Spirit comes to give us power to be witnesses. And, and so if, if you’re an evangelist, you will be a more effective evangelist with the Holy Spirit than you will be without the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit. It’s almost helpless. You. There’s nothing hopeless. You, there’s nothing you are gonna be able to do. You can knock people’s heads over and over again with, with, uh, platitudes and, and, and good preaching points. But really, it’s the Holy Spirit that draws people to God. That’s, and so we need the Holy Spirit
Larry Martin (24:53):
That’s clearly taught in the Word of God. And you know, I’d go further, Daniel, to say, not only as evangelist I would, I wouldn’t wanna be a mechanic without the Holy Spirit. I I wouldn’t wanna be a carpenter without the Holy Spirit. We need him and every believer, every person listen to this podcast needs the baptism, the Holy Spirit, to give them the power that they need to be witnesses for Christ.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:13):
Alright, so if you want to know more about the power of the Holy Spirit, go to pentecostal gold.com and listen to some of the great Pentecostal sermons of great men and women of God who, who have been close to the Holy Spirit. And let’s finish Dr. Larry with a prayer. Could you just pray for everyone listening to have a fresh touch of the Holy Spirit right now?
Larry Martin (25:37):
Hallelujah. Heavenly Father, we thank you today for this podcast, the opportunity to speak to these people who are listening to us. You made a promise in the word Jesus said he would send another comforter that would abide with us forever. He said he was the spirit of truth. Lord, we pray for that spirit now to come on every listener. We pray that anyone that’s not been baptized in the Holy Spirit could just open their heart and receive from you today, even while we’re speaking, Lord, without any human element, just come Holy Spirit and feel these believers, those Lord that are dry and need a refreshing, I pray, holy Spirit, come. Come and anointed and touch, set these people on fire. Lord, those that are in your work and evangelism, pastoral ministry. Anyway, Lord, I pray the Holy Spirit, the helper, the comforter would come along beside them, encourage them in what they’re doing today. We thank you for it all because it’s in Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:37):
Amen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (26:40):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an alter call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:42):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (29:02):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Mikel French | To Russia With Love
Mikel French is an evangelist who loves going to Russia to preach the Gospel. Russia is the largest country on planet earth expanding over 6.5 million square miles and a population of 141,903,979. There are 158,000 cities, towns and villages and only 4,000 Evangelical churches in the entire nation. On today’s Evangelism Podcast we talk about what God is doing in the great nation of Russia.
Website: https://mikelfrench.com/
Power Points from Mikel French
- You must connect with the heart. If you capture the heart, the mind will follow.
- To connect with the heart preach the power of the cross.
- Use stories to connect to the hearts of the people.
- Everyone wants to know who they are, where they came from, and where they are going. The bible answers all three.
- Be honest with people and see in them what God sees in them.
- Make it your constant challenge to speak uplifting words into everyone you meet.
- Trust the Word, pray the scriptures.
Transcript:
Evangelist Daniel King (00:00):
Mikel French is an evangelist who loves going to Russia to preach the gospel. Russia is the largest country on planet earth, expanding over 6.5 million square miles, and it has a population of over 141 million people. There are 158,000 cities, towns and villages in Russia, and only about 4,000 evangelical churches in the entire nation. On today’s evangelism podcast, we talk about what God is doing in the great nation of Russia.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:38):
Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:45):
Everyone who calls in the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:50):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelist Daniel King (01:14):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus today. Have a very special guest with me, Mikel French. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast. Well,
Mikel French (01:26):
It’s great to be here Daniel. Thank you
Evangelist Daniel King (01:28):
Brother Mikel is a tremendous man of God and he has a great love for the nation of Russia. And for many years he has been going to Russia preaching the gospel, telling people about Jesus. Brother Mikel, could you tell me how did you first go to the nation of Russia?
Mikel French (01:50):
Um, I first went because of the invitation of Rob Hoskins. Um, I heard about what God was doing, especially through Billy Joe Doherty and what victory was doing in those days and enjoyed hearing the testimonies. And then, uh, Rob Hoskins invited me to go to Russia and for about 18 months I turned him down. And uh, then one day now
Evangelist Daniel King (02:13):
Rob Hoskins, he is the director of One Hope. Yes. And they have an absolutely tremendous ministry, especially ministering to children and youth all over the world distributing literature. Yes. I just was in a conversation a few days ago Yes. With Rob Hoskins. Was was on the Zoom call and I’m so inspired by his vision and his strategic thinking. Yes. And so it sounds like he was str strategic in inviting you to go to Russia.
Mikel French (02:41):
Yeah, well he was, it’s kind of strange because I met him in California. He was a youth pastor and I had no idea of his family’s influence around the world. His father’s one of the greatest missionaries in history and also his family, uh, from his wife, parents and relatives, extraordinary relationships. And Rob, when he heard me speak in a church, he said, you know, you could do this in stadiums. And I went, well, no, I’m happy being a revivalist. I knew I was an evangelist cuz I led people to Christ. But then when he started inviting me to go to speak in the schools of Russia, and then one day I, he invited me to go to Siberia and I said, um, I’m thank you. I can I pray. And he said, would you give God a chance? And without going through the whole story miraculously commitments that I needed to keep graciously changed. Uh, when I shared with people, they, every one of them said, we we’re in agreement that you need to go to Russia. And it, it transformed my life.
Evangelist Daniel King (03:47):
What year was that, that you first went to Russia? I
Mikel French (03:49):
First went to Russia in March of 1992.
Evangelist Daniel King (03:52):
Wow. So let’s talk a little bit about Russia. I have your website pulled up here, Michael french.com, and it says that Russia is the largest country on planet earth. It expands 6.5 million miles as a population of 141 million people. So a huge population. There’s 158,000 cities, towns and villages and only 1600 evangelical churches in the entire nation. So it sounds like there are a lot of people that need Jesus in Russia.
Mikel French (04:26):
Yes. And and also we need to update that when I started in Russia, there were 61 churches that we were in relationship with. Today we have 4,600 churches. Wow. And, um, and then many others that are closely related to us. But the church crossed Russia over the last few years has been exploding in supernatural growth.
Evangelist Daniel King (04:51):
And so you have some statistics here about Russia and, and these are very dire says someone commits suicide every 10 minutes, every 40 minutes a woman is murdered by her husband. Thousands of children each year are murdered by their own parents. I didn’t, I didn’t know this, but in a land where you had atheism that dominated for so many years, uh, I, I remember, uh, when Russia first opened back up, I was just a young teenager and Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty was doing Crusades Yes. In St. Petersburg, Russia. And every month for 18 months, I think he, he went and did a crusade in the Olympic stadium there in St. Petersburg. Yes. And so I was 14 years old, I got to go and I got to preach the gospel on the steps of what had been the Museum of Atheism there in St. Petersburg.
(05:47):
And I remember the, the phenomenal openness of the people because when Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty gave the altar call, people ran from the back of the stadium to the front in order to give their lives to Jesus. Yes. It was a phenomenal moment in history. Yes. And then after the initial excitement, a lot of people from here in the United States, they stopped going to Russia, but you never stopped. Why did you keep going? Why, why did God put it on your heart so much to continue working with the churches and encouraging the churches in, in the former Soviet Union? I
Mikel French (06:23):
Went through a transformation. By 1995, I was ready to quit. I had wonderful pictures. The altar calls cities of 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 people coming to Christ. It was extraordinary. But the local church was so anemic, so small, so young, uh, and at times would almost fight against these new believers coming to Christ. And in 1995, I met a young man, 26 years of age, Edward Grava Vinco, and he was planting a church. Uh, when I use the word planting, what I’m realizing is a lot of people don’t realize that means starting a church. Um, he was starting a church in perm Russia, but he already had 800. He’d already planted th 30 churches. And out of that, that week of meetings, we saw many people come to Christ, but nearly half of them, 90 days later were in church. And since I came out of a home where my father was a pastor, I was a revivalist.
(07:27):
I’ve always believed that you want a church to help people. You, you can’t be a disciple without that vehicle to accomplish that. And when I began to work with Edward, I began to see the vehicle not only for people to pray a sinner’s prayer and to invite Christ into their lives. And when I began to work with Edward, it changed everything. Now since then, we’ve done other things in other parts of the world, but we keep going back to Russia. And with it we’ve been able to establish pastor schools, young adult conferences because we want people growing in the power of the Lord.
Evangelist Daniel King (08:04):
Tell me some of the miracle stories of what you’ve seen God do in Russia over the years.
Mikel French (08:09):
Let, let, let me tell you the first story, that there are so many things that are extraordinary. But one of the first stories in my life, I I was in the city of your Coots in, in, and anyone who knows anything about the Book of Hope, that means you’re in schools. And so we’re in schools and, uh, we had about 50 Americans there. And that morning I went downstairs and because I was the speaker, I didn’t have to go to the schools. But I went down every day and I would just pick out one of the teams and I would go with them and usually not even speak, just observe and pray for them. And that morning when I got into the, the, the taxi <laugh>, the, these people, they were just so excited, oh, brother Michael, please, we we’re so scared to death, will you, you please do the presentation for us today.
(08:58):
And the other part of it was my interpreter, which I did not know until later, she was the number one star pupil from that school. I was going to 16 year olds, 200 of them gifted children who spoke at least three and four, five languages. Wow. And so I go and I speak and, and when I, when I speak up, they, they’re very receptive. Most of them had never seen an American in nine March of 1992. And um, uh, when I gave the invitation, almost every hand went up. And then over on the right, there were some young men who were not really happy with me. They were heckling and they were telling everyone to put their hands down, sticking their thumbs up in the air. And, and I, I, to be honest, it made me nervous. And I, I turned to the interpreter and I said, ask everyone who wants to receive Christ to stand up. And so she did. And nobody stood up. Have you ever gone from excitement to total like you’ve lost everything? And I, I remember when I was listening and, and watching that day, the crowd, I turned to the interpreter again. And I said, now you have to remember, I did not know that she went to that school. I did not know any of the history. And I said to her, ask one more time, is there anyone here who wants to stand up for Christ? And she looked at me and said, do I have to
Evangelist Daniel King (10:24):
<laugh> <laugh>?
Mikel French (10:26):
You’re all confidence is leaving your body quickly? And uh, I said, yes. She said, they’re embarrassed. Just answer questions about America. And I said, if no one stands up, we’ll do that. And I said, so she turned in, in Russian, invited them to stand in, in the very back row on the aisle there was a young man and he, he was making noises like almost like he was a troublemaker. And he went, and I, I looked and I thought, Lord, get. And all of a sudden he stood up and he stood up almost kind of like slouched. And, and over on the right, they started heckling him. And the louder they heckled, the taller he got,
Evangelist Daniel King (11:09):
He was a troublemaker. He’s like, I’m going to stand up for Jesus whether they like it or not.
Mikel French (11:14):
And I, and I turned to look at this group of people, and she may have been standing the whole time, but she was so short, I didn’t even realize she was standing right in front of the troublemakers was a girl. And she was standing and she was very young and very short. And now she’s tip jumping up and down and on her tip toes because she wants me to realize she’s standing. And then on the front row, two girls stood up and then the entire front row stood up. And the second it was like they were doing the wave till every kid in that place was standing with those, those boys on the right. Wow. And, and I turned and the interpreter was crying. And she says, I’ve never seen such courage. She says, is Jesus real? And she said, I want to accept him also, all because of the courage of one person standing in the back.
(12:09):
Russians. What what you have to learn about Russians is if you argue with them, they won’t ever let you win. Even if you win. I, I was trained in philosophy. I know how to stand in front of a crowd and and present the case for, for God, for the New Testament, for the cross. But what I’ve learned is touch a Russian’s heart and they’ll die for you. They’ll, they’ll do. And and what I learned was this, that day was so profound in the fact that one of the teachers said to me, you keep arguing with the Russian mind and you won’t ever win cuz they won’t admit it. They said, but if you’ll capture the heart, this one of the teachers said, the mind will follow. And that is the miracle that that connected me was a again and again. The thing that has happened to me in Russia is watching the courage of the people. When people there decide they’re gonna stand, they stand.
Evangelist Daniel King (13:10):
How do you connect with people’s hearts? What’s the message? What, what are you saying that helps you to really connect with the heart of people?
Mikel French (13:20):
There there are two things. Number one, you can connect with the heart, but if the substance of content is not there, then what will happen is something emotional. So what I do is that first of all, I preach the power of the cross. I want people to understand what Jesus Christ did upon the cross and that he’s torn down the walls that have divided us and that he holds the keys of death hell in the grave and can forgive us of our sins. Make that very clear. But then secondly, um, uh, one of the stories that happened in my second trip to Russia, um, there was a lot of resistance from the mayor, the schools and everything. And, and God performed a miracle that made the mayor literally had to host us. And we go in the first school and I get up and, and I’m teaching and speaking and, and, uh, when it was over, uh, what I’d asked was, everybody wants to know who they are, where they’ve come from and where they’re going.
(14:20):
And Jesus Christ answers those questions. Oh, when it’s over. I was told that if I had any more American philosophy, I’d be thrown out of the city. <laugh> next class, next, the next, the next cla the next school. Um, one of the ladies on the trip said, um, I have a word from God is all right if I give it at the next school assembly. And I’m going, well, I’m getting this thrown out of the city. And she stood up and she said, you know, I have a little girl and I bet your parents are just like my parents. They want you healthy. I have a garden cuz I want my kids to get the nutrients they need. And then she held up the Book of Hope and she said, in this book, are the nutrients of life, just as your parents want you strong God the Father wants you strong. When I heard her story and then she led her daughter to the Lord, I have told the story of my son and leading him to Christ. Now with that, that’s all within the context of the word and the truth. But what I have found is, as with everyone, stories connect the heart. And and most evangelists, those of you who are listening to me today, for the most part, I would almost preach with no stories. I’m a principle-based person.
Evangelist Daniel King (15:42):
12 steps to success.
Mikel French (15:43):
Yes. 12 steps. This is what the Bible says. Principles are the foundation of relationship and and out of it. I believe that’s how you overcome through the power of the word of God. Do you understand it? But I’ve also learned that people, many are not like me. They, they need a story to connect to something they can see, something they can hold onto.
Evangelist Daniel King (16:07):
So one of the questions I’ve really been wanting to ask you, you’ve been in ministry for for many years and I’m still very young in ministry and a lot of the people listening are just starting out in the ministry that God has for them. Tell me a couple of stories that would help us as young people in ministry. What have you learned over the, these course of, of years of serving the Lord that would really help a young minister?
Mikel French (16:36):
The first thing I want to say, because I want to say it to you, um, the most important thing is understanding the prophet prophetic. Now, when I say that, that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But when I look at what the Bible talks about in the book of Corinthians to exhort, to comfort, to edify, I put it in modern English terms to lift up, to build up, to cheer up. That when you’re able to speak to people out of a heart of love, now I hope you will receive Daniel what I’m getting ready to say. You’re a champion of the most high God. And I don’t say that because I’m trying to make you feel better. It’s because you are. I’ve watched you, I’ve watched what God is doing in you and through you. And one of the most important things to me is be honest with people.
(17:26):
But the second thing is see in them what God sees in them. Every person out there, if you hear me speak, you’re gonna hear this phrase. This is my, uh, tagline if you want to put it that way. I say it every time I speak. You are beautiful. I see Jesus in you. Your actions almost always follow what you see, whether it’s in the natural world or in the unseen world with your words. Can you begin to see how to lift up, how to build up, how to cheer up? What I have found is we live in a world that can tell you you’re nothing. You’re nobody. Daniel. You probably know this better than I do. I no longer have to convince people they’re going to hell. You know, when I started in ministry, I would have these messages and philosophy and, and hell is real.
(18:20):
Uh, almost every person you talk, you can walk up to the street and go, if heaven is real, if hell is real, where are you going? They’ll go, oh, I’m going to hell. It’s reality. But can you speak, it is my constant challenge to speak words into every person I meet. I believe words change the atmosphere. I believe with the power of words, you release the prophetic of the future in people’s lives. I believe the very gifting of God’s ability to speak God’s ability. I don’t even know if that’s the correct way I wanna say it. Uh, God has the ability to speak and instantly things are created. And when he breathed into us the breath of life and those of you who are listening inside of you is the breath, the seed, the ability to transform a person and an an entire grouping of people, a nation.
(19:14):
And we have the ability to shake nations and to take cities for God through the power of our words. And I want every person to learn that, learn that ability to speak without fear and that watching the power of God. And, and, and those of you who are watching, pray for Daniel. He’s an extraordinary man of God. Uh, if I was younger, I would be jealous. How much God, I don’t know of anybody who works harder than this man. And I bless him. I bless him in the name of Jesus. I’m thrilled that I get to be here talking to you with him. I, uh, the association, I’ve watched what you’ve done. Um, I know it’s not good to be proud, but I’m proud of you in a spiritually godly way for what you’re doing. But that’s also what I’d recommend, learn to live a life that exhorts that blesses and opens up people to bless people, will not only shock them in some ways, blessing people creates trouble cuz they don’t know what to do with it.
Evangelist Daniel King (20:18):
Well, thank you so much for your kind words. What other advice would you give to young ministers?
Mikel French (20:25):
Um, trust the word. When you pray, there’s old pictures of old men with the Bible open and you see them praying the word. When you’re praying, pray the word. Uh, make sure you have a list of scriptures that you pray over yourself every day. I can give you advice on, on how to give an al alter call, how to give an invitation. But to be honest with you, what I do and how I do it is almost a, the DNA of what God put inside of me. But I can teach you how to open your Bible and and, and be over it and, and in the word and prayer and watch the power of God begin to lift you up in ways you never thought possible. When, when you understand that, that, that to me as I’ve watched through the years is the difference. Um,
(21:25):
Inspiration is extraordinary, but the discipline and discipleship of your life and the word, your life in prayer, uh, and, and, and welcome God, the Holy Spirit. Uh, uh, the one thing Russia taught me, um, when I went to Russia, um, I woke up early like 4:00 AM every morning. And in those days there was nothing on TV to watch. Although in the early days, somehow Trinity Broadcasting network had like two hours in the morning. But there was Russian over the top of it, <laugh>. And, and there was nothing to do but pray. And this is what would happen in the early days, and it was dysfunctional. A lot has changed in Russia. Moscow is a one of the most beautiful cities in the world. St. Petersburg is one of the most 10 beautiful cities in the world. And we must pray for the believers there because the number one thing they are asking that the gospel not be stopped. And, and you, you’ve, I’ve watched an entire nation change in so many wonderful ways and, and right now the hurt and the pain that we’re observing. But the one thing was seven o’clock every morning there would be a knock on my door. And when the knock on my door came, it would be from an interpreter, a liter. And they would tell me everything that had gone wrong in the night.
Evangelist Daniel King (22:50):
Oh no.
Mikel French (22:51):
Everything, it was like all nightmare. Well,
Evangelist Daniel King (22:53):
Good morning to you two <laugh>.
Mikel French (22:55):
And, and, and yet I’d already been in the word in prayer for three hours.
Evangelist Daniel King (23:00):
Mm.
Mikel French (23:01):
And I never saw it once worth, at the end of the day, everything was accomplished by the power of God’s grace. Overwhelming. And that is the beauty of the power of knowing God.
Evangelist Daniel King (23:14):
Wow. That’s awesome. Well, brother Michael, I wanna say thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. If you’re listening and you have a heart for Russia and you want to help the churches of Russia, you want to preach the gospel in Russia, I encourage you to support the ministry of Michael French. Thank you. And to help him with what he’s doing in the nation of Russia. And what is your, your website if someone wants to find out more about you or get in contact with you?
Mikel French (23:43):
The, the key to finding me is this word Mikel. My mother did this to me, and I’m thankful you spell Mikel. M i k e l. Now if you put Mikell French, uh, it’s Mikel french.com. It’s Mikel french.org. It’s MiKel French ministries.com. But the key people will say, oh, I tried to find you. If you spell Michael the normal English way, you won’t find me. But M i k e l will find
Evangelist Daniel King (24:12):
Me for a long time I thought you were Miguel or I I didn’t know who you were. And everyone was talking about MiKel. I said, who, who is this Mikel you’re talking about? I’m like, oh, it’s you <laugh>. So yeah. So I’d encourage you go to Mikel French m i k e l french.com. Yeah. And find out more about the ministry. You have brought revival all over the world, not just Russia. You also preach at churches all over the United States and, and other parts of the world. And, and you re bring revival everywhere you go, you help people get closer to God. Yes. And so I’d encourage you to, to reach out, find out more about this tremendous ministry.
Mikel French (24:49):
Thank you. Thank you. It’s a privilege.
Evangelism Podcast Host (24:51):
Is there evidence for God’s existence? How do we really know Jesus was raised from the dead? Can we trust the Bible? Do miracles happen? Does God care about me as an individual? In Dr. Daniel King’s book, proof God is real. You’ll find the answers to these three vital questions and more is God there? Does God care? And do I dare to follow him? In his powerful, easy to read book, Daniel provides seven convincing proofs of God’s existence. You’ll learn about the evidence of cause. Design, logic, morality, scripture, miracles, and religious experience with proof God is real. You’ll read about topics like, was Jesus the son of God or just a crazy preacher? If God does exist, is he interested in your life? If God is there, why do bad things happen? To good people, improve. God is real. Daniel King shows you, God is there and he cares for you. Plus how to take a leap of faith and start a relationship with a God who deeply loves you. Order proof God is real today by calling 1-877-431-FOUR 2 7 6 or find the book on Amazon.
Evangelist Daniel King (25:54):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (27:15):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Frankie Cortez | Raising Up Influencers for Jesus
Do you want to be an influencer for Jesus? Frankie Cortez is a graduate of the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp. God has given him a vision to raise up social media influencers who can share the Gospel with a sight and sound generation. On today’s podcast we talk about why it is important to evangelize online and give you some tips for maximizing the impact of your social media.
Website: https://www.promisesinternational.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Do you wanna be an influencer for Jesus? Frankie Cortez is a graduate of Christ for All Nations evangelism. Bootcamp. God has given him a vision to raise up social media influencers who can share the gospel with a sight and sound generation. On today’s podcast, we talk about why it’s important to evangelize online, and we give you some tips for maximizing the impact of your social media. Plus, Frankie is going to share some stories from the different countries that he’s been working on, and you’ll hear about what God is doing in Egypt, in Pakistan, in Brazil, and in Ukraine. Let’s listen.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:54):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:19):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Frankie Cortez. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Frankie Cortez (01:30):
Thank you for having me.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:32):
So let’s talk about how we first met you were a student at the Christ for All Nations Evangelism Bootcamp in Orlando, Florida. And tell me, what did you learn going through the Evangelism Bootcamp?
Frankie Cortez (01:48):
Yeah, so I had the amazing opportunity to be part of the Evangelism Bootcamp at Christ for All Nations. Danielle King was actually one of my teachers. I learned how to organize crusades, how to plan them, how to preach at them, and then ultimately how to roll that out.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:02):
Well, I love pouring into other evangelists and helping people who have a passion for the great commission and going to nations all over the world. And so, do you remember some of what I taught in, in the sessions that we were together?
Frankie Cortez (02:18):
I yes. I remember you had systematic plans on how we can actually do this. I remember you had 300, I think it was 316 steps to be an effective evangelist. And I specifically remem I think it was number 17, is Find a Wife. I still haven’t found that one yet. <laugh>,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:33):
Absolutely. Well, when I found my wife, it really helped me out as an evangelist. Just gave me more credibility. But, uh, that, that plan that you’re, you’re talking about, I have, uh, a list of how to start a ministry and it’s because people kept coming to me and asking me questions like, well, how do I start a ministry? What do I do in, in order to start taking donations from, you know, how do I share my vision? And, and I kept getting the same questions over and over again. And especially like, like, how do I write a book, Daniel, you’ve written like 25 different books. How do I write my first book and how do I raise money for my ministry and how do I book speaking engagements at churches? And, and I kept getting all of these questions and, and so finally I decided I’m just gonna put one spreadsheet, all the answers to every question I get.
(03:23):
And so now if people ask me a question, I just send them a link to their spreadsheet and I have resources there. And I love coaching people that gives me a place to, to start coaching them in evangelism and helping them to become more effective in the ministry that God has called them to. And so if you’re listening and you’re interested in being coached in evangelism or being coached in how to start a ministry, uh, reach out to me and, and we’ll talk about doing that. All right. So Frankie, since you graduated from the the Evangelism Bootcamp, you’ve gone to a bunch of different places around the world and you’ve seen God do some amazing things. Kind of walk me through that journey and what you’ve seen God do.
Frankie Cortez (04:04):
Yeah, so it was amazing. The Evangelism Bootcamp showed me how practical it is to just duke Mass Gospel campaigns for right after our, our bootcamp, we had the opportunity to go to Tanzania. We were able to kind of apply what we learned by going to gospel outreaches on trucks where basically we would preach on trailers of semi trucks and we would go to different places around. I was in Moto Godo in Tanzania, and we would share the gospel and we would in marketplaces and on the streets, and we would see many people come to Jesus. We would go into schools and we would share the gospel to many thousands of children. We would give her that to Jesus. I also, within the last year, had the opportunity to travel to many different countries, um, like Pakistan and Brazil and Poland, uh, Mexico, Egypt, where I was able to have these big giant campaigns and bring in just the harvest of thousands of souls.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:55):
Yeah. Tell me about the details of, of some of these events. You went to Egypt, what did you do in Egypt?
Frankie Cortez (05:02):
Yeah, so in Egypt, Egypt was very special in history. They’ve never actually had a mass gospel campaign in, in the Egypt history. I can’t say the C word cuz that one’s actually a bad word over there. But it was amazing. Two weeks before, um, our crusades started, we’ve been planning for an entire year and the biggest church in the city is actually set on fire. 40 people dying over 50 people are injured. And it was like, what do we do? God, is this something that we move forward or is it something that you want to maybe push ahead or something like that? God said, we want you to push forward, I want you to go and I want you to do this crusade. So we had to find a brand new location in a different part of the city in Cairo. And we found actually a Muslim military base in the middle of the hood in Cairo, Egypt.
(05:41):
And God poured out his spirit. So Daniel, you know, the marketing budgets for some of these, sometimes the marketing budgets are 10, 20, 30, $50,000, depending, you know, where you are. I remember in Cairo, Egypt, an event like that has never been done. So we put in about a thousand dollars of marketing. Day one, we had 5,000 people on the field, and by day five we had over 50,000 people on the field because God’s glory showed up, miracles, signs and wonders happened. People were literally coming up to us saying that they had dreams of Jesus and they were leading ’em to our event.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:11):
Wow. Well, when you have the Holy Spirit working with you, you don’t need much of a budget. And so that’s amazing. Did, did you know the, the first evangelist to ever go to Egypt was Mark who wrote the Gospel of Mark. And the story is that he went to Alexandria, which was founded by Alexandria the Great. And when Mark went into Alexandria, um, his shoe was, uh, it, it was a leather sandal and it had fallen apart as he traveled. So he went and found a shoemaker, and the shoemaker was, was fixing his shoe. And as he was working on it, the owl that he was working on, the leather slipped and went right through his hand. And right then Mark laid hands on him, prayed for him, and the shoemaker was healed. And so the mark became the first bishop of Alexandria. And then when he was martyred, they tied him some to some chariots and dragged him through the streets. And that’s how he died for Jesus. Uh, the, the shoemaker who got saved that day, when he was healed, he became the second bi bishop of Alexandria. And to this day, the Coptic Christians in al in Egypt, they traced their spiritual heritage back to Mark the writer of the Gospel of Mark. And so what a great thing that you got to go and be an evangelist in the footsteps of Mark. Yeah. And then you also went to Brazil. What’d you do in Brazil?
Frankie Cortez (07:43):
Yeah, so in Brazil we, we taught and trained on evangelism. We had a fire con a fire camp. So basically what that is, it’s a week long evangelistic training where we take a small group of 50 to 60 young people or old people, but they’re very interested in going forward in evangelism within their local country. So we trained about 50 evangelists there and we, and then we sent them out to the streets to apply what they learned. And we were raising people up out there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:05):
And you also went to Pakistan. What’d you do in Pakistan?
Frankie Cortez (08:08):
Yep. I, um, total in Pakistan, I’ve done four gospel campaigns where we saw tens of thousands of people come to Jesus crowds of 20 to 30,000 people, uh, miracles, signs and wonders happen. And we’re really seeing just God descend on some of these countries that people are like, is not possible. We’re, we’re still gonna go.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:25):
That’s absolutely amazing. Now how old are you?
Frankie Cortez (08:28):
I’m 25 years
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:29):
Old. So 25 years old. You’ve already been to a bunch of different countries. You’ve been seeing God to amazing miracles. And then, uh, you also recently worked in Ukraine. The, the, the war that’s been going on in Ukraine is absolutely horrible. Uh, what were you doing when you went there?
Frankie Cortez (08:47):
Yeah, so I went with my friends, uh, Slavik down, he has a ministry in Ukraine. So what basically what we were doing is we have, we, we had teams that were coming in from the United States, from Seattle, Florida, different parts of the United States. And they were going into Ukraine from both Poland and Romania. And they were going in and they were sharing the gospel, providing humanitarian aid help for the people cuz it’s just a very sad situation that’s happening. So what we were doing, we were actually raising teams up and teaching them how to evangelize in these places, how are we gonna roll out the humanitarian aid work? So we’re we’re also, we went to go shoot a documentary to kind of document what’s actually happening and what God is doing within the country. And that’s coming out pretty soon as well.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:26):
Wow, that’s amazing. Alright, just a few days ago I was on a Zoom call with you, with a bunch of other evangelists who had graduated from the Evangelism Bootcamp and they were all coming together to talk about how to be kingdom influencers on social media. So we’re talking about Instagram, we’re talking about TikTok, we’re talking about Facebook, YouTube, and any other social media platform that people are on. And your vision was to activate these evangelists to go and share the gospel on these different platforms. So, so talk to me a little bit about what God has put on your heart in this area of raising up kingdom influencers for social media.
Frankie Cortez (10:21):
Yeah, it’s amazing. So the Lord kind of put this, um, desire on my heart to see people reached online. So there’s 8 billion people on the earth and 5.8 billion of those are internet users. About four, a little over 4.5 billion of those are social media users. So the biggest people group in the world are internet users. So it’s now how are we gonna actually use the internet to reach people for the kingdom of God, because that’s where the people are. Many times we want to reach people in, in the way that we’ve always done things and now we’re living in a generation and a time where maybe those things are, are not as effective as what as when, how it was long time ago or some of those things we can keep doing. But we can also add social media to that. So the Lord gave me a vision about going on social media and really sharing the gospel, but not just sharing the gospel, but raising up a team to share the gospel online as a unit and creating some type of alliance or some type of collaboration of a group of us to make our own individualistic channels, but then kind of come together, collaborate, give each other feedback so that we can be effective in reaching people on social media.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:26):
So God’s given you this vision to reach out on social media and, and I think this really is a, a vision that that comes from God because like you said, we need to go to where the people are. And so sometimes people think about missions as going on a missionary trip. You, you go over to Africa, people are in Africa, you go to Asia. But nowadays, so many people are spending so much time on social media. I have two kids, they love spending time on the screen. And so we have to limit how much screen time they have cuz they’ll just sit and scroll through different things and watch YouTube videos. And, and so as a parent, it’s kind of, it is kind of scary because who knows what they’re watching, but I think that Christians need to be a voice in those places where, where people are.
(12:13):
And, and so frequently you see people there spending time just watching videos on their pH their phone, and they’re, they’re listening to content and we have to go to where they are and then we have to present the, the gospel message. Now something that you said earlier really stood out to me. We were talking about how there are a lot of Christian influencers that talk about good Christian topics, but there’s very few people that preach the gospel. So talk to me about the difference between an influencer and someone who is intentionally trying to lead people to Jesus.
Frankie Cortez (12:51):
Yeah, so there, there’s many amazing Christian influencers out there. Um, um, many with very good doc and many with amazing heart. They’re reaching out to the church, they’re building up the saints, which is amazing. Keep doing that. But what I don’t, I don’t see many, um, influencers that are Christian that are actually going out to reach the loss. Specifically, I’m going to do social media because I want people to know Jesus. I want people to come to the place of repentance. I want people to come into I don’t know Christ, who I know Jesus now.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:22):
And so one of the things that the Christ for All nations Evangelism Bootcamp really does well is teaching people how to present the gospel. And so just give me a nutshell, what is the gospel, Frankie?
Frankie Cortez (13:37):
Yeah, so this is the gospel. Many times we, we, we know the gospel mentally, but we leave out some parts. So this is the gospel. Sin separates us from God. There’s no way we can get to God because of our sin. That’s the problem. But this is the answer. Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, came down to this earth lived life, look every single one of us, but was without sin. And you know, the, the religious people at the time, they hated him. They killed him, they mocked him, and they hung him on a cross. And Jesus died. But the story doesn’t end there. The Bible says that Jesus rose from the dead and now he’s alive and he’s living and he’s wanting to give us eternal life. Jesus prayed an ultimate price for us that we couldn’t pay ourselves. There’s nothing we can do to earn our salvation. But Jesus came, died, rose again to give us eternal life. And the Bible says, if we repent and believe the gospel, we can have eternal life today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:27):
Amen. Well, I hope if you’re listening, you don’t know Jesus right now, you’d cry out to Jesus and ask him to save you. And if you will call on Jesus, he will save you from every sin and give you a brand new start. All right, Frankie, let’s talk about some of the, the different platforms that are available for, for social media influencers and just kind of talk me through some of how people be effective on these different platforms. Cuz every platform has a slightly different nuance, different things that they’re looking for, different algorithms. And so let’s start with Instagram. How do you think someone could use Instagram to share the gospel?
Frankie Cortez (15:04):
Yeah, so Instagram seems to really want to be competing against TikTok right now with reels. Reels is what they’re pushing in the past, um, they pushed a lot of graphics, a lot of photos and stuff like that, but it seems like we’re in a place where they’re really pushing Instagram reels. And for those of you that don’t know what Instagram reels is, their short form videos just like TikTok, where you basically have 60 seconds or less to get your messes across. And if it’s anything longer than that, you lost them. And you have about five to 10 seconds in the beginning to grab their attention. And if you don’t grab their attention within five to 10 seconds, you’re pretty much gone. So it’s how do we effectively grab someone’s attention, the five to 10 seconds, and then keep their attention for the rest of the, the remaining time, which is 50 seconds longer.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:44):
All right, so now let’s, you mentioned TikTok. Talk to me about TikTok. How can we reach people on TikTok?
Frankie Cortez (15:48):
So I think TikTok is honestly the greatest vi uh, social media. It’s just so as far as virality, it’s just so easy to go viral. What I, what I’ve seen when I’ve talked to major influencers, they, they tell me that if I post three times a day every single day for a month, you pretty much blow up. And TikTok is short form content just like Instagram reel. So everything needs to be under 60 seconds. You need to grab people’s attention within the first five to 10 seconds, and then you need to keep them for the rest of the 50 seconds.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:17):
Alright, give me a hook for a a TikTok video. If you want to tell someone about Jesus on TikTok, what is the first sentence that you’re gonna use to hook them? Gi Give me two or three hooks.
Frankie Cortez (16:29):
Just say something super crazy. Did you know that Jesus is not the Savior of the world? And you’d be like, what? That doesn’t make sense. And then you hooked him and then you kind of say, he’s not the savior of the world. If you don’t, if you don’t receive it, it’s like I give you a check. And if, and if you don’t actually cash the check, you don’t actually have salvation.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:45):
Yeah, that sounded like heresy there for a second. It did. It did. Oh, and, but it definitely got my attention. Okay. <laugh>, I was about ready. Kick you off the, the Evangelism podcast for heresy. Alright, so, so TikTok and then YouTube. Talk to me a little bit about who YouTube.
Frankie Cortez (17:01):
So YouTube is very interesting because they’re both long, there’s long form content, and they’re short form content. So YouTube actually started shorts, which they’re competing against Instagram reels and TikTok, but then they have the long form content and what they’re known for, which is amazing. So long form content is maybe 10 minutes of video. Short form content again is like 60 seconds. Now,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:22):
Who would you say is the most famous YouTuber right now,
Frankie Cortez (17:26):
Mr. Beast.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (17:28):
And what did Mr. Beast do in order to become famous on YouTube?
Frankie Cortez (17:34):
Yeah, so what Mr. Beast did is he looked up the algorithms. He, he really studied what worked, what didn’t work. He looked up what the people wanted, and as he looked up what the people wanted, he began to do trial and error. Okay, if I try this, let’s see if this works, because like statistically it should, but if it doesn’t, let’s kind of tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak. And then he just found his niche, he found his, his kind of vein, and he moved forward with it. And now he’s the greatest YouTuber out there right now.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:02):
And so you’re thinking about this from a, a gospel standpoint or an evangelistic standpoint. And what I really like about your idea of bringing together kingdom influencers is that by working together, we could replicate some of the success that Mr. Beast has had by doing the same thing in the, the kingdom realm. And so what he did, he had a group of friends, a mastermind group, and every day they would talk together, they would critique one another’s videos, they would see what was working, what wasn’t working, what was good at getting views. And he was obsessive about it, tweaking every single little video until it was perfect and looking for creative ideas, creative ways. He loves giving away money. And, and so what Mr. Beast saw is that his early videos didn’t get many views, but as he got better and better, they got more and more views. And so I think if we had a Christian Mastermind group, we could achieve amazing success and, and really catch the attention of people that need Jesus.
Frankie Cortez (19:12):
100%. And this is the point of the group that we created, is that we are creating a group where we can build each other up. We can kind of talk to each other, what worked, what didn’t work. We can kind of give constructive criticism for one another. We can say, this is what we think would reach the most amount of people. And it’s really thinking outside the box. It’s like, let’s do something that we haven’t done before. Let’s try to, you know, look outside of the box and maybe do some of the Mr. Beast type content, but bring it into the gospel and see people saved.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:38):
Hey. Amen. Well, if you’re interested in being part of a group of Christian influencers who are sharing the gospel, uh, reach out to us. Let me know, or, or you can contact, uh, Frankie, uh, what is your website if someone wants to donate to your ministry or find out more about you? Frankie, what, what’s your website?
Frankie Cortez (19:58):
Yeah, if you want to contact me, you can go to promises international.org. Again, promises international.org.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:05):
So I’d encourage you go support Frankie, help him go and preach the gospel around the world. And if you want to communicate the gospel on social media, I encourage you to start making videos. Start using your voice to reach out. Today’s generation is a sight and sound generation. They’re on all the social media, media platforms. So if we wanna reach them, we need to start thinking strategically about how to use social media to present the gospel. God bless you. And thank you so much, Frankie, for being on the Evangelism Podcast.
Frankie Cortez (20:42):
Thank you for having me. Are
Evangelism Podcast Host (20:43):
You called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from and observing top evangelists, noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to given ultra call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist, but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:44):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (23:05):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Khon Khan | Turning Killing Fields Into Harvest Fields
Pastor Khon Khan leads a network of churches in Cambodia. This nation of 17 million people is 97% Buddhist. In the 1970’s, the Khmer Rouge killed over two million people. But today, with God’s help, these killing fields are becoming harvest fields. Today we talk about how to reach Buddhists with the love of Jesus.
Connect with Khon Khan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SokhonEMA
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus on this podcast. We love talking about evangelism, and so make sure that you subscribe and keep listening, because every single time we have an episode, we hear great stories of what God is doing around the world. Today I have a very special guest with me, Pastor Khan, from the Nation of Cambodia. Thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast with me.
Pastor Khon Khan (00:35):
Okay. So thank you very much for having me here, pastor Evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:42):
So brother, it is so wonderful to have you here, and I have been praying for the nation of Cambodia. It’s a nation of about 17 million people, and according to the STA statistics, 97% of Cambodia is Buddhist and follows the teachings of Buddha. But you are there being a shining light for Jesus in the midst of great darkness. So tell me a little bit, what is God doing in the nation of Cambodia?
Pastor Khon Khan (01:17):
Okay. I would like to say about how God is doing in Cambodia, but I just gave a bit background in the past the gospel come to Cambodia about hundred years ago, but at the time it’s through the Catholic priest during the French colony because our country was under colonized by friend about 90 years. So at the time, the gas ball is so close at the time. But just recently, I think back, starting from 1993, after we have election by prime what temporary government by un so we have the freedom to preach gospel. However, from that time, even though we have freedom to preach gospel, but still the community or the local authorities still close to us. However, recently few years later, we have much freedom now to God, Pandora, even our prime minister is open for us to, to preach gospel in Cambodia. Even our prime minister come to talk in the Christian group leader as well. So that mean he have a heart open for the US even though to speak gospel everywhere, even the public place places. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:43):
Now I heard that you actually now have a position in the government. Tell me about that and what the influence of that allows you to do.
Pastor Khon Khan (02:54):
Yes, actually, I, now I can say that I am not, can say that I, I have a position called undersecretary of state in the Ministry of cause and religion. So through this position that mean I have the, the right to meet the higher high ranking people and tell them about Jesus. Also, I can go from place to place that people like give me a respite of me so that it’s easy for me to tell people about Jesus. So it’s really influence from that. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:27):
And so I heard that I am supposed to call you your excellency <laugh> because you are a man deserving of great honor. Well, your excellency, I I think the, the greatest title that we can have is that of Servant of Jesus Christ. And you are a servant of Jesus, and you are a wonderful pastor. Tell me about the, the, the churches that you have been planting in different parts of Cambodia and and how does that happen?
Pastor Khon Khan (03:58):
Yes, actually we plan now we, they have 155 by last year. So we plan 100 and 55 churches in Cambodia. So how we do it, we do it like, you know, I train, I train the new pastor and leader so that they can go out, they can go out to the mission field to plant the churches, to bridge gospel in the villages. Also, we do it through a community hub. Sometime we do the water, well thriller, we thrill the village that there is no gospel. We go and partner with the local authority, and then we drill the well there and we ask them to plant a church here. So they open for us because we help them and they open for us to pray gospel and plant a church. They, they help us as well. Yeah. So this is the way that we come and plant the church in the villages. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:57):
I love the idea of planting wells because people need fresh water, and Jesus said let all who thirst come to me and drink. And the lady at the well, in Samaria, in John chapter four, Jesus talked to her about living water. And so we give them the fresh water, but then also are able to give people the living water that comes straight from heaven.
Pastor Khon Khan (05:28):
Yes, that’s right. Amen. Yeah, because we not just only give only physical water, but also through that we can give them the living water as well. So because they’re spiritual for the word of God. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (05:45):
Now, tell me about some of the, the outreaches that you do. I, I know that you’ve been involved in Christmas, in Cambodia, and you have been talking to people about Jesus at the, during the time of the birth of Jesus. What do those outreaches look like?
Pastor Khon Khan (06:02):
Yes. For the Christmas outreach, normally we do it the Christmas gift to the children in the rural village. So we we gather the children in the village to come together. We tell them Jesus story. We treat them song, and we present them the gift because we said that this is just only the gift physical gift just last a few day, or, you know, short time, but especially the love of God. That is the really gift for, for them. Jesus is the gift for them for eternal life. So for Christmas, we, we do that. We get the ring, also, we do the Christmas outreach by do Christmas celebration. We invite people, come together to one place, we serve them a meal, and then we can have opportunity to tell them about the Lotis, subscribe during that celebration. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:54):
Now, tell me some about your testimony. How did you become a believer in Jesus, and then how did you become a pastor?
Pastor Khon Khan (07:02):
Okay. back in 1998, I was away from my house because I was an I I, my, I am an orphan, a mother license, mean I don’t have mother because my mother passed away in 1994, and my father remarried. And then I don’t like my stepmother, so I have to live home to live in a Buddhist temple to serve the monks Buddhist mon. And then finally I end up in another town. I became the bad boy, or I can say the gangster in 1998. So in 1999, I feel that I want to study English with foreigner, because I know English a little bit already. So I want to study English with the foreigner, so that I want to be interpreter, but the place that I come to study, which is Filipino missionary, the church, so I come to study there.
(08:04):
However, before I don’t like to, to go to the church to study there, because I, I don’t like Christian. I hate Christian. I even Christian. I want to fight Christian and I stone the church. So, but finally, if I don’t go there, I don’t have money to study outside. So I force myself come to study, attend the class, and the class. It is not an earn English class. At that time, it was the Bible class. So I attend the Bible class, however, I don’t care the Bible class or whatever, because I want to learn English. I want to speak English.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:39):
Your English is very good. You speak wonderful English now.
Pastor Khon Khan (08:43):
So through that, through that the church require all the student come to church every midweek service, prayer meeting, and Sunday service. So I love to listen to my my pastor preaching so that I can learn English. So I keep coming on every Sunday, every midweek service I nonstop. So after five months later, I realize that after I read the Bible, and I, I, I find out especially from the Bo Man chapter three, verse 23, that for all have seen. So I look at to myself, oh, I have seen, because I, I was a bad boy. Yeah. So that’s why from that time, early of 2000, I accept the Lord Jesus s Christ as my personal Lord and Savior is through coming to the English class. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:33):
Wow. And then how, how do you become a pastor?
Pastor Khon Khan (09:36):
Oh, yes. So when I was an believer, I had to be a, a teacher because I want to teach people. So when I become Christian, and after I study the Bible class in my, my church, we, so it, God revealed to me God want me to be the pastor to shepherd the people who are lost. So that’s why from that time, I pray that, Lord God, after I finished my high school, and I will continue the Bible school so I can become the pastor. So I finished my high school in 2002 and Bible school in 2004. So through that, first I serve in my church, but finally God called me out from my church to plant my own ministry, which is called Evangelical Fellow evangelical Mission Association.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (10:26):
Wow. Yeah. Well, let’s talk a little bit about Buddhism, because you said that you are an angry Buddhist. Yeah. You even want to throw stones at the Christians. You’re kind of like the Apostle Paul. He watched Stephen be stoned. He was there at the stoning of Stephen, but then he had an encounter with Jesus and gave his whole life to, to serving God. Yeah. And, and so here you were, you were an angry Buddhist, but the love of Jesus touched your heart. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that it’s very interesting looking at the, some of the, the differences between the Buddhist religion and the, the Christian religion. Of course, Buddha he was enlightened, and I got to go to India and see the tree, it’s called the, the Bode Gaia tree that they say that Buddha was sitting under mm-hmm. <Affirmative> when he was enlightened.
(11:25):
And so when I saw that, I, I began to study some of, of what what Buddha thought. And, and, you know, he, he had the, these four truths that he discovered mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And the first truth was that all is suffering. That everything is, is suffering that everything in the world it, it causes suffering. And then the second, second truth was that this suffering is caused by desire. That if you want some, like for example, if, if you want a car, you see somebody who has a beautiful new car mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and you begin to be jealous, then you feel bad mm-hmm. <Affirmative> on the inside because you want the car that they, well, you start to suffer because you want what they have. And then so all is suffering that suffering is caused by desire. That then the third truth is that the way to rid yourself of suffering is to rid yourself of desire.
(12:29):
And then Buddha taught an eightfold path to help people to rid themselves of desire. And, and when Buddha was born, he was a prince. Yeah. Yeah. And one day he was being carried down the road. He looked out through the curtains, and he saw a beggar man who had leprosy sitting beside the road. And he had never seen anything like that because he was, he was a prince. He was grew up with great wealth. And when he saw that, that really impacted him. And, and that’s where he went on his search for truth. Now, what’s really interesting is that Jesus also dealt with suffering. And when Jesus saw a leper, man, you remember what Jesus did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He healed the leper. Yeah. He took away the leprosy. It is beautiful. And then Jesus sat under a tree in the garden of Gase. Yeah. And he be God. He said, you know, take this cup of suffering away from me. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but he says, but if it be your will,
Pastor Khon Khan (13:40):
Not my will,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:41):
Not my will, but yours be done. Yep. Yeah. And so Jesus actually went to the cross and he suffered so that we could be set free from suffering. Hmm. Jesus took stripes on his back. Yeah. The sin of the whole world was put on him. They put a crown of thorns on his head. Jesus suffered so that we could be set free from suffering. Jesus died so that we could have eternal life. And I find that very interesting because the, the, the, the problem that Buddha was confronting is a very real human problem. I mean, people suffer. Suffering is very real. It hurts. Mm-Hmm. But Jesus came with a solution to the problem of suffering. Yeah. What do you think about that?
Pastor Khon Khan (14:31):
Yeah. I sing
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:32):
That it’s am am I right when I’m describing some of the teachings of Buddha? I don’t, I’m not Buddhist, so I don’t know, but maybe you know more
Pastor Khon Khan (14:39):
Yes. Actually that that is right. But the way that Buddha try to try to help the people out of dusk, there is four thing. One about he want to help people because some kind like people have to be born and grow up, get old born, get get born and getting old and sickness and die. So this is Buddha thing about his first thing that he want to try. How, how to get out people from that thing. Yeah. Because why people have to be born sickness all and die. But when he suffer himself a lot in order to find a way, finally, he said that he cannot, cannot take out the people, the nature of people from all of these. That’s why he throwing that he tried to do something else, he said, he’s not a God. This is what the Buddha said.
(15:45):
He’s not God, but he can solve what is right, what is wrong, what is good to do, and what is not good to do. So that’s why Buddha said that we cannot depend on him. We have to depend on ourself. Yeah. We have to depend on ourself, not depend on him. But he said that let the people who follow him need to Risa wait for another God who is the, the real God who bring peace to the world and who can help bring love to the world. So this is what Buddha one people not look to him, but to another God who come later after him. Yeah. So this is what Buddha’s teaching Yeah. Telling the people. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:30):
What do you say to a Buddhist who may be like, you, does not want Christianity? Maybe even would say that I don’t want a, a religion from the west, from the white man. What would you say to somebody who is Buddhist, but you want to present the hope of Jesus to that man?
Pastor Khon Khan (16:59):
Actually what we can say, Buddhist or Buddha Isk the leader of one religion. So if we compare the word religions, it mean that religion, Chas leader teaching. So all religion, most religion teach people what is the good thing to do? What is the bad? But religion cannot say people. So what we come to tell you to come, to tell you, the creator of the world, the one who create everything, and the one who can help us, and the one who die on the cross, and not just only die, but he resurrected from the dead. So this is what we can tell them, that Jesus is not one of the religion. Jesus is the God of the world. Jesus is the savior of the world. So we believe in Jesus, not mean that we change the religion from Buddhism to to believe in religion of Jesus, but we believe in the personal of the Lord Jesus, who is the real God. So this is the way that we present the gospel to the people of give hope to the people. Hmm.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:05):
That gives such wonderful hope. Yeah. And, and really, that, that is what the, the message of Jesus is. He brings hope. Yeah. To those who are hopeless. I remember I was in the nation of, of Myanmar mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and of course there’s many Buddhist temples in Myanmar, big beautiful golden temples. And I was outside one of the temples, and there was a, a man who had a, a cage full of birds and an an old Buddhist man, and his wife came, they, they bought two birds. They paid money, they bought two birds mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And then they take the birds out of the cage, and then they, they let the birds go free. Yeah. And I asked, why, why did they do that? And someone explained to me, he was like, well, you know, maybe they’ve done some bad thing. Mm-Hmm. And so now they want to do something good in order to, to make up for what they did that was bad. And so by setting the bird go free mm-hmm. They’re doing a good deed to make up for a bad deed. And the problem is that as humans, the Bible says, all have sin. We’ve all done so many things that are bad. Yeah. And no matter how many good things we do, we cannot balance the scales. It’s impossible to be as good as God.
Pastor Khon Khan (19:23):
Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:24):
But that’s what Jesus does for us. He lived a perfect life. And then the, the Bible says that the punishment for sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. So Jesus, he died on the cross to pay the price for our sin. And now by trusting in Jesus, we can be made perfect before God. Yeah. And he takes away all of the bad deeds that we’ve done. And He, he gives us his righteousness. That righteousness means to, to be standing right in to be good before God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that’s what Jesus does. Yes. He brings hope. Yeah. That’s right. Where releasing a bird can never get you to heaven. Yeah. <laugh>. But Jesus can take you to heaven.
Pastor Khon Khan (20:12):
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. So that is wonderful. Yeah. Because only Jesus, as he said, that he’s the way, the truth and the life. So if people don’t come to him, they cannot take hope for their life. Yeah. Actually, normally people who believe in Buddha, they don’t have hope at all. They just, you know they sometime they know, but because they said that is because of their tradition, their forefather, when they was born as a Buddhist believer. So they just follow, but they don’t understand, clearly understand what they believe. So what they see, they just follow. And sometime for back in Cambodia people know that Christian are good, Jesus Christ are good, but they said that they cannot stop. They cannot give up their religion. Because if they give up the religion, their parent or their grandparent or relative will get angry with them sometime like that. So they can say, Jesus is a, a good Jesus, good. Or can give her, or can give the, but the hard thing, when they want to come to believe in Jesus sometime their parent, their relative criticize them. Yeah. So, Jesus, only Jesus is the hope for the people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:29):
Amen. Yeah.
Pastor Khon Khan (21:30):
Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:31):
Well, I’m so excited to hear that Jesus is working in the nation of Cambodia. You are raising up leaders, training pastors, planting churches, preaching the gospel. And I encourage you to continue in in that. I believe that Jesus loves the nation of Cambodia.
Pastor Khon Khan (21:53):
Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:53):
And I believe that God is going to send a great move of His Holy Spirit to Cambodia. And I believe that every person in Cambodia needs to hear about Jesus and have the opportunity to, to give their lives to Jesus and to receive the salvation that comes through Jesus. So I have a question. A lot of the people who, who listen to this podcast mm-hmm. <Affirmative> if, if they wanted to, to pray for Cambodia or come to Cambodia is is there opportunities to do that? What what should they be praying for for the nation of Cambodia?
Pastor Khon Khan (22:29):
Okay, so days before, and answer your question, I, i dunno what it is term called, but I say that my heart is to turn killing field into how Westfield, why Wow. Why I said turn killing field to how Westfield, because the, he, I was bad history last in 1975, up to 1979, we were under the Khmer Rouge that that communist kill their own people amongst, when amongst 1 million people, they kill at least two to 3 million people. So that’s why if you go there, you can see a lot of bond that they college and keep in one place. So this is what I want to see Cambodia turn back to God. So there are many opportunity that if anyone want to come and minister to Cambodia, we either can come to do the, you know, we can do the public evangel, public evangelism, or we call crusade, or we can do pastor leader training or do some outreach as community help through
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:44):
That. We can, maybe someone wants to help dig a well…
Pastor Khon Khan (23:46):
Dig a well or maybe help build a community school. Or maybe they can, you know, like there are many opportunity because there are needs, many needs there in Cambodia. So, and all those need through that, we can bring hope to the people through what we can have. We can have the way to reach out the people also. Yeah.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:11):
Amen. Yeah. Well, I agree with you that we need to turn the killing fields into harvest fields. Amen. And I believe that Jesus can do that. And I pray for a great harvest of souls in the nation of Cambodia. Let’s finish today by praying for Cambodia, okay. And lifting up the people of Cambodia. Yes. To Jesus. Would you pray for Cambodia? Brother?
Pastor Khon Khan (24:34):
Okay. Dear heaven, father, thank you Lord for this opportunity that we come together and we share about what is God doing in Cambodia. And thank you Lord for evangelist Daniel King for help me to share here. So Lord God, now I lift up Cambodia to you, Lord God, that you will turn the killing field into the harvest wheel and turn the heart of the people in Cambodia from believe in religions and come back to the through God, which is the Lord Jesus Christ, who die on the cross for Lord God, I pray that God will bless the people and send more laborer to come to Cambodia to have or to the mission, feel their Lord. Because we need more people come to work alongside with us in order to bring the gospel of salvation to the hopeless people. Lord, thank you Lord, that you love us and you care for us. And your Christ is abandoned also. Lord. Now I am praying also for those who are listening the podcast today, Lord, that they will be touched by what we have been sharing, Lord God, so that they can pray for Cambodia as well. Lord, I pray to you that you will do great thing in Cambodia before you are coming. This can time, Lord, in the name of Jesus we pray, amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:04):
Amen. Amen. Well, brother, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate
Pastor Khon Khan (26:09):
It. Amen. Thank you for this opportunity. Yeah,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:13):
God bless you.
Pastor Khon Khan (26:14):
Amen.
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Kevin Hardin | Building Destinies in America and Asia
Kevin Hardin and his wife Karen Hardin lead Destiny Builders. For many years they have worked in China and other parts of Asia. Now God has given them a mandate to transform politics, government, and culture here in the United States through prayer. On today’s episode we talk about some of the cultural differences between the east and the west. If you ever want to minister in China, you need to listen to our conversation.
Learn more about Destiny Builders: https://destinybuilders.world/
Connect with the City-by-City Prayer Network: https://city-by-city.org/
Connect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DestinyBuilders.World/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:04):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Kevin Hardin. Thank you for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Kevin Hardin (00:16):
Glad To be here with you, Daniel.
(00:18):
So you have been working in Asia for many years now. Yes. Let’s start at the beginning. How did you originally go to Asia to start ministering?
Kevin Hardin (00:31):
Oh, long story short, huh? Okay. Well, as an O R U student, I’d graduated, I’d gone to O R U, felt called there, Oral Roberts University and just had a love for God after graduating, was very involved in my church in Tulsa, which was Victory Christian Center. And just very loved God, just serving God through the church. Reaching out to other singles at the time and, and then all of a sudden I feel like God spoken to my heart one of the few times. It wasn’t an audible voice, but it was a voice that I actually feel like God was said to get ready to go. I said that was all he said, but I knew because of the, at least the path that God had been leading up me, he meant international missions. I just knew that. And I, he never gave me a very far in advanced notice, like when I was 15, called to missions or anything like that.
(01:25):
It’s just I grew up loving God and, and going to a Christian university, involved a church and, and all he had to say was, get ready to go. And I started preparing. Now, what that meant was I had to figure out, because I’d gone to, at Wallace, student at Oral Roberts University, I had gone on a couple of summer mission trips to Asia Singapore, Hong Kong, Sri Lanka. Two of those locations was primarily Chinese people. So when, when he said, get ready to go, I remembered back then when I was on the trips, like I could come back. I’ve, to the Chinese people, I felt like, I felt like that’s what, you know, connected with my heart. So naturally, I, that was the first place I assumed, somehow reaching out to the Chinese people. And as I researched and prayed, found out the way to go to China was to teach English. So that’s kind of where that journey began. In 1989, I moved to China as an English teacher.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:23):
And then at what point did you and your wife get married?
Kevin Hardin (02:27):
One year later? We were already dating when I lefthalfway through she visited me in China and, and we got engaged. Then I was told by her friends later that if I had, didn’t, didn’t Enga hadn’tpropose to her at that time, they were gonna come find me. So I’m glad I did. But we were, came home three weeks in that next summer we were married. Three weeks later I had her in China. So.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:53):
And so your wife Karen Harden is a powerful woman of God. Yes. And ministers right alongside you. You really minister together. And the name of your ministry is Destiny Builders. Yes. Tell me what, what’s the meaning behind that and, and why do you call it Destiny Builders?
Kevin Hardin (03:12):
Well, we, we had actually been another ministry name for much of the time. Over 30 years that we’ve been in ministry was actually specifically China focused. We called it China call cuz that’s what we felt we had was the call. But as God began opening up and broadening us, the name didn’t quite still fit to be in other places. So as we prayed, we, we just felt like God was calling us to, to be destiny builders, cuz we are, we’re here to build, rebuild, build up people and help them to find their destiny in God. And because that’s so much is what this lost world is, struggles with. They don’t know their destiny. They don’t know their identity. So that’s a big part of, I feel, feel like what we are, our ministry is called to do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:58):
So when you went to China as an English teacher, you were there teaching English, you learned a lot about their culture. Your ultimate purpose was to be a shining light in the midst of great darkness. Talk to me a little bit about the spiritual conditions in China and, and what it’s like talking to people about God there.
Kevin Hardin (04:21):
China traditionally had been a Buddhist country primarily, but after the communists took over, they, they for the most part had done away with religion under the very strict mouth Chairman Maza Dong when he was in charge and, and other communist leaders. But the, as the nation began to open up with some more, some, some leaders that wanted to open China up to the West or to some more open ideas, and not just be this closed off country like North Korea still is things begin to blossom more society wise as far as the economic of China’s cities and areas. They, they begin to just prosper and develop, you know, and that, that’s, that’s like God, you know, he’ll when God’s allowed to come in, he, he likes to open up, open us up and prosperous and, and just provide just a much more amazing opportunity.
(05:27):
So as China did begin to open up, now, they weren’t open to Christianity or religion, but they were very interested in to develop their nation. They recognized the international language was English. So they, they allowed and invited foreign teachers to come to teach English and some other, some other areas. But English was the big area because they knew that that was the international language. So for many, many years, couple of decades at least foreign teachers was the, the preferred way to bring in a lot of this development and then in investment and business opportunities. Well, but to come in and just share the gospel with ’em, this was the easy way. And you still had to be careful how you shared. You couldn’t just openly be preaching to the students. We, we were able to, as long as it applied to us, we could share our life.
(06:25):
We could share about who we were, which was very much revolved around God or around a holiday since it was English class, which is the language, especially from the West. We could talk about Western holidays and if it applied to a Western holiday, which Christmas had a great story, we could tell, told all about the birth of Christ, the purpose of Christmas what what was all about. Even students acted out the Christmas story as part of their English class. Or we could show the Jesus film as part of our Easter holiday. There were ways that we could share, but the, but the Chinese people, they were hungry and they wanted, they, it was a very atheistic country as far as being taught from the government and their education system. But they were hungry. And especially after a major event, the very end of the eighties where the government cracked down on some student protests and activities, this, a lot of the people of China became very disillusioned with their government.
(07:27):
At first, they thought their government was ev, you know, wonderful and ev but after that, they were very disillusioned and they went searching. Now, eventually, that searching led many of them to the Lord, often through the influence of their foreign teacher. So the, the foreign teachers played a major role in many of the current churches that are, at least in the cities, the rural churches maybe not have been directly as affected by the, the English teachers, but, but many of the city churches were, and many of the pastors at, and churches that started in the nineties, they’ll often say, I’m a believer because of my foreign teacher. Now later, less and less dependence on foreign teachers for English as China and the students and their program English programs became better. There was less of a that need for English teachers. But
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:20):
How long did you live in China?
Kevin Hardin (08:23):
I physically lived full-time in China, seven years. But the remaining part of the, my 30 plus years, I was going back and forth every year, several times into China leading different types of ministry teams.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (08:36):
And you actually learned quite a bit of Chinese,
Kevin Hardin (08:39):
My wife and I, when we lived there, we were, we had studied to an advanced level. I can’t say that I’m at advanced level anymore, but while we were still living there and actively using it all the time we both were, I was better at speaking and listening. My wife was better at reading and writing. She’s, she’s a writer by trade. And she, so we had both of our strengths, but it, it, it helped a whole lot, you know, even just to learn a little if you’re,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:05):
Yeah,
Kevin Hardin (09:05):
It helps
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:06):
A lot of people who listen to the Evangelism podcast, they, they want to go to different parts of the world and they have a vision for, for telling people about Jesus. But I think here in the West, we don’t really understand how different some cultures are. We, we, we understand that there’s differences between culture, but really there, there’s a lot of, of differences between the culture that we have here in the West and the culture in the East. What are some of the, the cultural differences that you noticed and that people should be aware of?
Kevin Hardin (09:39):
A whole lot of them as far as compared to east and west, very, very different from the traditional Westerner, you know we have a lot of families, of course, in America that are from the east or from from the Hispanic world, the, the Asians and Hispanics, and probably most of besides Europe, and well, at least besides America, they’re very family minded. That’s a very, very important, and the family is not just your mom, dad, and kids. That’s the nuclear family. As we describe it as a, as a new invention of just recent history. And it’s, it’s not really the right and appropriate definition of family. The family includes our extended family, includes our grandparents and uncles and aunts and cousins. And, and that, I believe that’s way God intended. You know, we’re, we’re tho those eventually, you know, as you read history and the Bible, those eventually became nations when they came as one family and, and that, yeah.
(10:43):
So Asia is very family oriented now. A lot of the Western influence and a lot of modern life and television and internet has changed a lot of that tradition. The every generation, they lose more and more of that as the young, as young people, children see, especially western shows, Western ads, they, they, they start adopting some of those things, but, but very family oriented, oriented. And elders are the ones who really should be respected. And they are really the, the leaders of the home and leaders of the family. When we were living in China we had our, we had our youngest fir, we had our first child there in China. But we had very, very close Chinese friends that they had brought us into their family. They made us part of their family. And, and the grandmother or our friend’s mother called me her American son.
(11:40):
And it was just such an honor to be embraced by them and by their by their family. And, but when that mother, when our friend’s mother passed away, and I was able to be, be part of the, the funeral ceremonies and the family events related, but since my wife had just had our baby, she had to stay home in, it was middle of a very cold winter, so she couldn’t be. But after the meal, after the funeral, what, what struck me was now that we called her dma, which is means old mom or big mom, <laugh> the word same big can mean old. So, but it was just a respectful term. When she passed away, the old next oldest person in the family on was now one of my friend’s, older sisters. She was now the senior member of the family. And they, when I told my friends, you know, I need to go now.
(12:39):
I gotta be help my wife with our new baby. They said, okay, you need to come and tell this elder sister out of respect. You went to the older person and you explained to them I must leave now. You know, and things like that. That’s how you gave honor to the person that was seen as the, the elder of the family. And I thought that was just very interesting to me and just really shed some, some light. And part of the culture, again, respecting honor related to honor is authority people in a position of authority, not just family position. We, and we worked at a university and we were teachers or language students. If we came into a room that had, some of the teachers, especially if they were our teacher, even if we were older than them, they were in the position of teacher that meant they had an honored position related to us or the principal, or the, the president of university, the dean of the department.
(13:39):
If I saw my friend over here to one side, and I went to them and talked to them first, when all these other more positions of honor were in their room, I would be very dishonoring to them. I should first acknowledge the people of honor and the highest first talk to the school president, greet him, at least say hello, you know, and then the others. And then finally maybe to my friend, that was the way they honored. So just our idea of giving honor and receiving honor is, was very important in that culture. And that’s where when we as Westerners, we go into their culture and we don’t know these things, they’re gracious, but it still leaves a very bad taste. And they really notice if you, if you do know those things, and if you really honor their culture and honor their, their people, by even just understanding those important things,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:36):
I think our culture could learn a lot about honor. Yes. And about respecting people that are older. Our culture tends to celebrate youth. We celebrate individuality. And being in a culture where you, you honor the wisdom of people who have been around for a while, yes. That’s something very valuable.
Kevin Hardin (14:58):
Yes, we’ve lost a lot of the understanding of honor in our culture.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:03):
My wife is actually full Chinese blood. She was not raised culturally Chinese. Both her parents were, were from China and grew up with more of a Chinese culture. But she grew up with more of a, a Canadian culture. But since I got married to her, I’ve been introduced to some pieces of, of Chinese culture. I learned how to use chopsticks and <laugh>. Yes. She took me to real, authentic good food restaurants. Yes. To get some good food. And you know, I, I really think that, that God loves the nation of China. Yes. And God has a, a destiny and a plan for China over a billion people, many who need Jesus. And I think that when people talk about the, the in time harvest of souls and people coming into the kingdom of God, I think a time will come where God will open up China to, to be completely open to the gospel.
(16:03):
I mean, we, we’ve seen that in other nations in the past where they were closed, but then in a moment, they were opened up. And so I, I really think that the, the church needs to prepare for that day. And so I’ve even started to prepare. I’ve been translating one of my books into Chinese just, just getting ready. I, I haven’t given away to anyone yet, but I’m just getting ready because I know the day will come where God will open up doors. And you know, I was watching the, the Olympics a few years that ago that they had there in, in Beijing, and they did such a beautiful job putting on the Olympics. And, and they, they built the Bird’s Nest stadium right there. Such a beautiful stadium. And I was thinking, you know, that would be such a wonderful place to go and to preach the gospel someday. Yes. And I, I’m asking God, that in my lifetime Yes, yes. He would make that happen.
Kevin Hardin (16:57):
Amen. We’ll agree with you. You know, that China was actually getting more and more open. It was the believers could openly worship and, and share their faith. Often they were getting bolder and bolder doing some street evangelism even. And even though officially it was still a communist country, as China was allowed to develop economically the people did experience greater and greater freedom under the current leadership. He started shutting things back down almost to the degree of, of Chairman Mazak back in fifties, sixties, seventies. And I hope that’s not the end, you know? But the one good thing potentially about that, when China was so shut down and all, all, and most of the pastors were in prison, that’s when the church grew more than anything, grew exponentially just under that persecution. And even though the churches of many of them are now being shut down buildings, torn down, pastors imprisoned right now, pretty aggressively the last few years, even under the cover of Covid Crisis, they, the, the authorities are using that to, to imprison many I believe that God’s still, the Holy Spirit’s still gonna do the work, even if it’s during this period of what appears to be being shut down by, by the government.
(18:31):
But, but we know, and many of the believers, like they, they’ve expected it. They know that it could happen anytime. Anyway. So many of them, and the pastors have prepared their hearts for the time. They’ve, they’ve experienced more tribulation just as much as I think the Bible and Revelation talks about the Great tribulation. Many of their people have already ex have already and are currently experiencing that. And so we, we need to remember them be praying for them. As Paul mentioned in one of the verses of, of his letters remember, remember those in chains, and that’s the, the Persecuted church, whether China or the Middle East or other countries let’s remember to be praying for them. And also just that the church, God, the Holy Spirit’s gonna still work through the, the people.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (19:20):
Let’s take a moment to, to pray for them right now, would you?
Kevin Hardin (19:23):
Sure. Well, heavenly Father, we just worship you. You are our God. You’re the Creator. And Lord Jesus, you’re the king of kings. You’re the Lord of all lords, including the nation’s Lord God that persecute your people. And Lord, we declare that your kingdom come, your will be done in each of the nation’s, Lord, each of the ethnic groups, Lord, the nationalities in the name of Jesus Christ, we bind the lion spirits of the darkness that would try to steal, kill, and destroy. We bind the, the deception that would try to scare people from you. Lord God, we thank you Lord, that you’re just causing those Lord God that are facing persecution just to be resolved, to stand all the more Lord God for your glory, all the more for your gospel, all the more Lord God, to, to reach out to the lost around them in the name of Jesus Christ. And Lord, we do pray that you, you will have mercy on those that are suffering. Lord, use them even in the prisons. Use them, Lord God, open the hearts of prison guards and tormentors and interrogators, Lord God, in the name of Jesus and the leadership of the nation. Lord God, we pray that the eyes of their understanding are open, that they know what the hope of their calling is in you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Thank you Lord.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (20:42):
Amen. Well, I believe in the power of prayer, and I know that you do too. Destiny Builders is also really involved in stirring people up to pray Yes. For the United States of America. Yes. And so you’ve launched an initiative city by city, and you are challenging people to pray for our government, pray for the politics here in the United States because, you know, China needs Jesus, but the United States needs Jesus. Yes. Just as much. Yes. And so tell me a little bit about how you and your wife Karen, are raising people up here in the United States to, to pray for this nation.
Kevin Hardin (21:23):
I believe it was just before the 2020 election, my wife and another ministry friend, they were talking and they just felt empowered and led to, they, they know the story of when Adam interceded for Sodom and Goor for because of lot his nephew. And he was interceding with, with God for the very wicked city. And he, he came down to God, if there’s 10 people, will you spare the city? Well, my wife and her friend, awesome, powerful ministers that they are, they said, if we could find 10 people in every city to pray for their city, then God surely will save that city. And that has been the start of this initiative that if we can raise up at least 10 people in every city praying for their own city, that God will bring revival and save their city, and then ultimately our whole nation.
(22:23):
So they begin immediately to send out weekly email. It, it shares an issue that we’re gonna focus on, and then it leads in a written prayer that people can pray as they receive their email that they can pray it. And so that we’re united in the prayer because it’s, it’s not just prayer points, but usually it’s a prayer declaration. And that is, people read it, they’re reading the same thing that everyone else said in the network. We’re praying the same, same word scriptures, the same, same principles. And it’s, it is, they’re usually super powerful prayers. My my wife writes all of them now, and it, it, I’m, I’m impressed most weeks when I’ve read it and I thought, babe, you’ve done it again. But many of the issues are, are, are specific city focus or school spec. We say we’re praying over the school boards of our city, we’re praying over our city council, or we praying over the nation.
(23:20):
We’re praying over different things that relate to our cities or the nation as a whole, and always focusing on bringing about revival to those cities. So every week it’s been going on for at least a couple of years. Now, every week on Monday mornings, we send this out. If you’d like to sign up, you can go to city by city prayer.org, city by city prayer. One word is.org. And there’s a place you can sign up and you’ll receive the same email that we’ve already got over 4,000 people on this every week praying with us. So
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (23:57):
Yeah, I’d encourage you to go and sign up for the prayer emails. I get emails from the hardens all the time, and it always reminds me to, to be praying. And so I appreciate them so much. Now, we actually had revival happen here in Tulsa. God opened the door for Mario Marillo, who’s a, a great evangelistic heart Yes. To come from California here to, to Tulsa. And also Flashpoint was involved from Kenneth Copeland Ministries. And you guys helped to invite them here and facilitate and we’re part of the team that we’re, we’re putting it all together. And it really was amazing what God did, because for two nights it packed out the maybe center on the, or Roberts University Yes. Campus. Yes. Which was just amazing. The people were hungry for God. When Mario Morillo gave the altar call, people streamed down, it instantly filled up the altars. There was no room for counselors to even pray for people because just so many people were hungry for God. Yes. And, and I was in the audience. I was talking to some people that they weren’t Christian, they were more interested in the political side of things, but they came and they heard the gospel. Yes. And it was powerful. What God
Kevin Hardin (25:16):
Did. It was we had every, each of those two nights, we had 10 to 12,000 people come to the stadium there. And I believe we had a total of three to 4,000 actually respond to the altar call when, when Mar pastor brother Mario a gave that invitation. It was very powerful. I believe it was. We saw, we really believed it was going to be a catalyst to begin some new things across the nation, not just our city. Tulsa has a, a very rich heritage for the gospel, for, for just spirit empowered ministry. And it, it, we did feel like that was a key in the start of this, this move for revival. And Brother Mario Morere, he is such a powerful evangelist, dynamic. His
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:03):
Heart beats for evangelism. Yes. Everything he does is
Kevin Hardin (26:06):
God begin to use him in words of knowledge and healing in a greater and greater way. More recent, and we’re believing for, for more of these type events, they, they have continued into other cities. But I believe it’s just the very beginning.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:24):
Amen. Well, I believe that God wants to send revival here to America. So you took a moment to pray for China. Now let’s pray for America and just pray for revival. Dear heavenly Father, we thank you for the great outpouring of your spirit that we saw here in Tulsa, Oklahoma when Mario Marillo came and, and gave the altar call, and thousands of people came forward to receive Jesus. And Lord, we pray that we would see that in cities all over this nation. Lord, we ask you to pour out your spirit upon the United States of America. We need you. Lord, I pray that you would turn the hearts of people back towards you. Turn the hearts of politicians back towards you, government officials. We lift them up. And Lord, we pray that your standards of righteousness would be established in this nation and that people’s hearts would turn towards you. In, in that we would see revival. Lord, I pray for all those lukewarm Christians that have drifted away from you and even stopped going to church during times of covid. Lord, I pray that you would bring them back. Yes. In that people would be on fire for you. Yes. In that we would see a mighty outpouring of your Holy Spirit upon this nation. In Jesus’ name. Amen.
Kevin Hardin (27:43):
Yes, Lord. Amen.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:45):
Well, brother Kevin, thank you for being on the Evangelism Podcast. It’s great to have
Kevin Hardin (27:48):
You. It’s honored, Daniel.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (27:49):
Thank you. Now, if you, you mentioned the, the city by city.org website. People can find out more about you guys there. If someone wants to support the ministry that you’re doing in Asia or wants to help to support the Prayer Network, how can they find out more information about you guys?
Kevin Hardin (28:07):
Our main website is Destiny builders.world Destiny Builders Do World.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:14):
Wonderful. Well, I encourage you to go support this ministry and thank you brother Kevin. God bless you.
Kevin Hardin (28:20):
Thank you.
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Christmas Wonderland | Daniel King
Merry Christmas from the Evangelism Podcast. On today’s episode we talk about the Christmas Wonderland. We were able to lead over 700 people to Jesus right here in Tulsa, OK. You will discover a great method for sharing the Gospel during the holiday season.
Check out the Christmas Wonderland webpage: https://thechristmaswonderland.com/
Learn more about Terry Henshaw and City Serve Oklahoma: https://www.cityserveok.com/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Merry Christmas from the Evangelism Podcast. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about Christmas wonderland and how we were able to lead over 700 people to Jesus right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. You are going to discover a great method for sharing the gospel at Christmas time. Come on, let’s go and celebrate what Jesus is doing during the advent season.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:41):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:06):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. If you’re listening, I wanna make sure to remind you to subscribe to the Evangelism Podcast and take a moment to share it with other people. On today’s podcast, I want to tell you about an amazing outreach that we did this Christmas time. It was in conjunction with citys serve Oklahoma, which is led by Terry and Brenda Henshaw.
Terry Henshaw (01:40):
Hi, I’m Terry Henshaw with Christmas Wonderland. We just finished an incredible time here. Uh, over the last 18 days, we had asked Daniel King if he would train all of our ministry people, um, because we were having so many people come through that ministry area. He just did such an incredible job in training every person on how to lead people to Christ, how to, how to engage in conversation with families, and just did this incredible job. And so we’re so grateful to them. I mean, if you have an opportunity to invite Daniel to your church, to train your people in evangelism in outreach, I mean, you are missing an opportunity if you don’t do that. So I just wanna encourage you, we just, just finishing up the most incredible outreach here in Tulsa, Oklahoma with Christmas Wonderland with over 15,000 people in attendance. And so Daniel just did such an amazing job. I just want to encourage you to invite him. Thank you so much.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:39):
Now, many years ago, Terry and Brenda Henshaw were the missions directors at Victory Christian Center, my home church here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And they did a great job as missions directors raising up missionaries, sending them all over the world, and they were also setting up great gospel crusades for my pastor, pastor Billy Joe Daugherty. And he did lots of crusades all over the world. He was a great pastor and a great evangelist. So Terry and Brenda Henshaw, after they were missions directors, God gave them the vision to start a ministry called the 99. And this was a horror house type ministry where people would go through different rooms inside a tent. And the, the 99 was a way to, to show people the 99 different ways that young people typically are dying in today’s world. And so you’d go into one room and there would be a drunk driver who got into a car crash, and it was quite vivid.
(03:47):
There, there would be a crash car there, and they would have someone laying, uh, through the windshield with blood all over their face about ready to die. And then you’d go into another room and there would be a, a, a drug den with someone shooting, uh, heroin into their veins and overdosing that way. And then you’d go into another room and there’d be a, a scene with a person sitting in a chair and they would have a, a gun to their mouth. They’d be talking about suicide. And then as the scene came to an end, the lights would go down, you’d hear a gunshot really loud, and suddenly the audience would be sprayed with water, uh, and it felt like blood. And so then as you came out of all of these different rooms, you would come into a prayer room where people would actually pray with you to receive Jesus and say, if you died tonight, would you go to heaven?
(04:48):
So it was a great evangelistic outreach with this outreach, Terry Hinshaw and the 99, they led thousands and hundreds of thousands of people here in the United States to Jesus. Well, they’re looking for a way to reach out at Christmas time. And so God gave them the idea of doing a Christmas wonderland. And so this year they decided to do the Christmas wonderland here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And they invited me to come and volunteer to lead the prayer and ministry room. And so from December 1st to December 18th, every single night we were there at the Christmas wonderland in the prayer room talking to people about Jesus. And it was so amazing because at Christmas, Christmastime, people’s hearts are open to the gospel. You know, we had so many people come through the prayer room, and some of them were atheists, some of them were Jewish. We had Hindus, we had Buddhist come through.
(05:55):
And then of course, uh, a lot of people from here in the Bible Belt who have had some exposure to church and to the gospel. And we found that people were so open to hearing the Christmas story. And so what the, the ministry of Terry Hinshaw did, it’s called City Serve Oklahoma, they rented the entire second floor of the Promenade Mall. Now, a few years ago, the Promenade Mall was a, a really nice mall here in Tulsa, but a lot of the stores have shut down and now the entire second floor was empty. And so they went and they asked if they could use the Promenade Mall as a winter wonderland. And so they filled up the entire thing with Christmas lights, Christmas decorations, they had music, they had different experiences for the whole family. And so families were able to come in. They were able to go to Santa’s workshop and make yo-yos for the children to take home.
(06:55):
Uh, in another room, they wrapped Christmas presents. They had a Christmas tree maze, and they had Elsa and Anna and Ola characters from the Disney movie. And then they had a petting zoo. They had a reindeer barn. They had, uh, huge room full of model trains. Then of course, the kids could also meet Santa and Mrs. Claus and they could eat a Christmas cookie with hot chocolate. And so this was a, a really great Christmas experience and people lined up every single night for 18 nights in order to go through this event. It was amazing. People from all over the city heard about it and they decided to come and, and so they’re looking for a Christmas experience. Then of course, the most important room in the whole place was a living nativity scene where guests viewed a live enactment of Jesus laying in the manger.
(07:57):
And of course, Jesus is the reason for the season. And so it’s so cool because as people came into the nativity room, they saw Mary and Joseph there, and the kids, especially the little kids, they loved to come up and look at baby Jesus lying in the manger. They like to touch baby Jesus. And the Mary who was there began to tell her story as if it, she was really married. And so she was in her the first person saying, did you know I had to ride on a donkey for seven days to get here to Bethlehem? And let me tell you, it is not easy riding a donkey when you are pregnant. And then we got to Bethlehem and there were no hotel rooms available. And so my husband Joseph was freaking out. I was like, what are we gonna do? My wife’s about ready to give birth.
(08:48):
And this one guy volunteered and says, Hey, you can stay in my barn. And so we went to his stable and there was was a cow, there was a donkey, there was some sheep, and there were some goats. And we were there in the, the barn. And that’s where I gave birth to baby Jesus. And I didn’t have anywhere to put him. And so I grabbed one of the mans that the, the sheep used to, to eat hay out of. And I cleaned out all of their saliva and everything and, and, and all the hey. And I put baby Jesus and laid him in the manger. And the kids were so wrapped, uh, they paid wrapped attention as they listened to Mary tell this story. And then she told about how the shepherds came and how the wise men came. And, and so kids would come up and they would meet Jesus right there in the manger.
(09:38):
And then as people came out of the living nativity, that’s where my part came in with all of my prayer partners. And so we would greet them and say, come this right this way for your next activity. And we would escort them over to some tables where we would have some coloring sheets for the kids to color. And we’d get the kids seated down coloring. And then once the, the parents saw that their kids were okay, they would take a deep breath cuz they’d been running from place to place going to all these different Christmas activities. And so now they had a chance to relax, and then we offered to pray for them. And the, the question that we used was, what is the greatest miracle that you’re asking God for this Christmas time? And some parents started talking about how they needed health. You know, grandma’s sick with cancer.
(10:32):
We just got kicked out of our apartment, we needed a new apartment. Um, we needed a new car. And then some people would shrug their shoulders and say, we don’t really need anything. We’re, we’re doing just fine. And then some people would just say, we need peace on earth. Well, whatever they said, I told all our prayer partners to go ahead, take them by the hand and pray for them. And, and if they didn’t know what they needed, we just prayed a general Christmas blessing over their family. And then once we prayed for the family, we took the opportunity to talk to them about the gospel on the coloring sheets that the kids were coloring. There were three pictures, there was a cradle, there was a cross and there was a crown. And we used that outline of the cradle, the cross, and the crown to talk to the families about Jesus.
(11:31):
I would sit down with the kids and I would begin to explain the gospel to them, beginning with Jesus in the cradle, then moving to what Jesus accomplished for us at the cross. And then talking about how Jesus is now wearing a crown. I would tell the kids, Jesus became the king of the universe and he wants to be the king of your heart. Have you ever made Jesus the king of your heart? Could we pray together right now and ask Jesus to be the king of your heart? And the results that we saw were absolutely tremendous. We, over the 18 days that we were there, we saw over 733 people come to Jesus just absolutely amazing results. We were there for a total of 18 days. We had 72 hours of ministry. We trained over 250 people in evangelism. We had 4,188 interactions and prayers for people.
(12:44):
And then 733 people prayed wi with us for salvation. 23 people said that they got healed while our prayer partners were praying for them. And so it’s absolutely amazing to think that right here in America, 700 people would get saved through an outreach like that. I mean, that is revival. We see thousands of people get saved in our crusades overseas. But you know, the angels of heaven rejoiced just as much when someone gets saved right here in America. And I’m really encouraged by these results because I’ve been praying for revival in America. I’ve been asking God to show me different ways of reaching out here in America. In many countries we do the big crusades, big festivals, and thousands of people come. The challenge with doing a big crusade or festival here in America is that it’s much more expensive here than it is in Africa or in Haiti.
(13:42):
To do a crusade in Haiti, we could do a crusade and it would cost us maybe 50 cents or a dollar in advertising and renting the sound system and in order to put on the crusade. But here in America, you could do an event and it might take $50, $75 per person in order to get them to come to the event. And I think that’s one of the big challenges that a lot of big ministries have had here in the States, is they do a big event and then no one comes. Part of it is because, uh, people have moved more to online, uh, uh, uh, participation in events. And part of it is just a general apathy among churches in the United States to organize and to get the loss to come to events. And so you kind of have to look for creative ways of reaching people.
(14:36):
And and the last year I’ve really been praying and asking, I say, God, could you please give me a way of reaching out to people here in America? And so this last summer we did the Tulsa State Fair Outreach, and that was 11 days long. We set up a a booth at the Tulsa State Fair with a little platform. And we went out there, we prayed for people all day long. We had hundreds of volunteers who helped us with, uh, free prayer shirts. And from the outreach at the state fair, over 400 people gave their lives to Jesus. And now with this Christmas wonderland, we’ve seen over 700 people come to Jesus. And so I think that there really is a way that we can reach people here in the United States that might look different than what we do in Africa or what we do in Asia, but there is a creative way that we can reach people right here in the United States.
(15:32):
Now, I put together a training video for my prayer partners that I want to play for you. Uh, this can be found on our YouTube channel. And so just go to YouTube and type in, uh, evangelist Daniel King, king ministries and you’ll be able to find our, our YouTube channel. Uh, but I wanna play this for you so you can kind of hear about how we presented the gospel to each person who came to the, the table for prayer. And then this is a really great method for communicating the gospel during Christmas time using this outline of the cradle, the cross in the crown. You can use this, I give it to you. Go ahead, use this outline. And, and it’s a great way to talk to people about Jesus at Christmas time. So let’s go ahead and listen to the instruction on how to present the gospel at the Christmas wonderland. Here we go.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
This is our special Christmas wonderland coloring sheet. And this is going to give us the basic outline that we’re going to use in order to share the gospel. Now maybe you are very experienced at hearing the gospel, and that’s wonderful. Uh, maybe you’ve never had the opportunity to, to really share your faith with someone. Well, we’re gonna make this very easy for you. It’s not hard, it’s gonna be easy. And the outline that we’re going to use to share the gospel this Christmas time is the cradle, the cross, and the crown. These are three pictures from the life of Jesus that can become real in the life of the people that we’re talking to. So let me show you how I might use this outline to share the gospel. You know, we’re here celebrating Christmas time. 2000 years ago. Jesus, the son of God, was born as a baby in Bethlehem.
(17:43):
And that’s why we celebrate Christmas because 2000 years ago, Jesus was born at Christmas time. Now Jesus was the son of God and who came from heaven to earth to set us free from pain, suffering, and sin. The Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. All, every single one of us have made mistakes. And the Bible says that the price for sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ actually died on across to pay the price for our sins. The Bible says in John three 16, for God so love the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him would not perish, but would have everlasting life. Jesus was the greatest Christmas gift that was ever given. Now, Jesus died on the cross, but he didn’t stay dead.
(18:41):
After three days, Jesus rose from the dead. And now Jesus is the king of the universe. And he wants to be the king of your heart. Do you wanna make Jesus the king of your heart right now? If you want to make Jesus the king of your heart, I wanna lead you in a short prayer and I want you to repeat this prayer after me. And we are going to make Jesus the one who came at Christmas time 2000 years ago. He’s going to come and live in your heart. Let’s pray together. Just say this with me. Say, dear God in heaven, I cry out to Jesus. Jesus save me. I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins. Tonight I repent of everything and I give my life to Jesus. I believe Jesus rose from the death. And right now I invite Jesus to be the king of my heart.
(19:45):
Jesus name, I pray. Amen. So sharing the gospel really is very simple. We just used the cradle, the cross in the crown. Jesus was born 2000 years ago. That’s the reason we celebrate Christmas. Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for ars sin, but he didn’t stay dead. After three days, Jesus rose from the dead, and now he’s the king of the universe. And Jesus wants to be the king of your heart. That’s the basic outline. And you can just make it very simple. Just give each person the opportunity to pray, to accept Jesus, to be their Lord and Savior. And I encourage you to be bold and say, would you pray with me tonight? Would you like Christmas to be real for your family? And take them by the hand and lead them in the prayer. Tell the kids, say, Hey kids, save this prayer with me.
(20:44):
Let’s all pray together. Let’s make Jesus the king of our hearts. Now if you have more time and the family looks like they’re interesting, you can read more scriptures to them, you can expand upon this basic gospel outline. You know, there’s a three different scriptures that we put on the front of this page. There’s a whole outline of the story of Christmas here on the back. And you could go through that entire thing. You could even put in some of your own scriptures and your own ways of communicating the gospel. But I’d encourage you become proficient at just sharing this very basic, simple outline of the gospel, the cradle, the cross, and the crown. And if you’ll just use those as your outline, your three hooks that you’re gonna hang your whole message on that will make it really easy for you to remember and it will make it really easy for you to communicate.
(21:41):
Thank you so much for helping us to minister to these families that are coming here this Christmas time. You know, I believe that through this outreach we’re gonna see hundreds and even thousands of people give their life to Jesus. And the Bible says that all of heaven rejoices when one sinner repents. And so as you leave people to Jesus, I want you to celebrate together. Let’s celebrate all of these people whose lives are being changed by the power of Jesus Christ. Now that is really a reason to celebrate this Christmas time. So thank you for helping us to minister to all of these family. God bless you.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (22:36):
So I would encourage you to use the cradle, the cross, and the crown as an outline to visualize the gospel as you present it to people. It’ll work from the youngest all the way up to the oldest. And it kind of gives you an idea of how to present the gospel. Now, one of the greatest fruits from this evangelistic event was the opportunity to train people in how to share their faith. We had lots of Bible school students from Victory College from Rhema, from Oral Roberts University. We had parents, we had homeschool groups, we had people that traveled from far, far away in order to come and participate in this outreach. And each one, we were able to train them in how to share their faith. And for many of them, they had never had the opportunity to tell someone about Jesus before or to actually lead someone to the Lord. And they were so excited. Uh, one, uh, young lady, she had tears in her eyes when she came to me and said, I just led someone to the Lord for the first time in my life. And there’s so much joy that comes when someone has that opportunity. And so I asked some of them for their testimonies. And the first testimony I would like to let you listen to is from a young student from Germany. Her name is Anna. Let’s listen to what she had to say about the experience.
Anna (24:12):
Hi, my name is Anna and I’m at the Christmas Wonderland. Right now I’m a victory college student and I’m actually from Germany and I’m right now here with Daniel King. And he taught us to pray for people how to pray for people and how to tell people the gospel. And actually when I came here, I, I was kind of excited, but the same time I was kind of afraid because there were so many kids and I, I thought I was not that good with kids, but I found out I’m actually pretty good with kids. And I had a lot of fun praying with the kids and tell me because the gospel. And we were able to provide so many families with, uh, presents and just tell so many kids about Jesus who never heard about Jesus or didn’t really know who Jesus is and what Christmas is really about. And yeah, I just had a really good time here.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (24:54):
The next experience I want you to hear about is from a young man named Boen.
Boden (25:00):
Hi, my name is Boden and I’m a Victory College student. I, uh, we actually had the opportunity to come serve at the Christmas wonderland through our college. They, uh, gave us, uh, they told us about this opportunity and it was actually for, uh, could actually get a credit for, uh, assignment. So I thought, I’ll just try that. And I really didn’t know what to expect and I thought, eh, I, I really didn’t expect much even when I got here. But Danielle King taught us how to talk to people about Jesus here. But after I had stayed here, after I’d been here maybe about an hour or so, I really had noticed that I had become more comfortable with talking to people, which something I’m not usual, not usually a big fan of. So it’s definitely made me, um, more comfortable talking to people and definitely sharing the gospel cuz that’s not something I’ve really ever done before. So it’s just, um, actually make me, um, grow with some of my friends here at this. So I had a really good time too.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (25:54):
One more great testimony came from a young lady named Hannah. Let’s see what she has to say.
Hannah (26:00):
Hi, my name is Hannah. I’m here with Victory College here at the Christmas Wonderland. And I was able to, when I first came here, I had no experience in praying. This was my very first time to like actually pray with people about like Jesus and accept them into their hearts. And I first came here, Dan King made it very easy and very simple, and taught us how to pray with the kids and pray with the parents and just, just bless them all. And, um, one testimony that I have from tonight, um, this lady came up to me and she had just banged her hand. And so I was able to pray for healing over her hand. And I don’t know if it got healed or not, but I pray in Jesus name that it does. Thank you very much,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (26:42):
<laugh>. Ultimately, we rejoice in all the people whose lives were impacted by the gospel. Thank God for all the people who were saved. And also thank God for all the people that we got to pray for. You know, people face so many difficult conditions in their lives, so many different issues and problems that people are facing. But at the Christmas Wonder Line, we had the opportunity to meet them at the point of their need to ask them, what do you need? Then for those who needed Christmas presents, we were able to give Christmas presents to them. The ministry city Serve was also able to give furniture away to families that maybe needed a kitchen table or a couch in their house. And so it really had a real impact on people’s lives. One last testimonial came from Angie Hinshaw. She helped organize everything and let’s hear what she said about the impact of this amazing outreach.
Angi Henshaw (27:46):
Hi, my name is Angie Henshaw. I’m with Christmas Wonderland. We just wrapped our 18th night. We are so excited. Over 700 people gave their lives to Christ. It was a powerful night, uh, or this whole, uh, last 18 days. We’ve had a wonderful time loving on thousands of families from across the Oklahoma area. Um, I reached out to Daniel King through his wife Jessica, wonderful friend of mine, and just asked if he could help us in our ministry area, uh, to pray over families, love on families, and connect them to faith-based churches all across the city that could connect them to a wonderful community. They of course, said yes, we’re in, and here we are, December 18th, with over 700 people that have accepted Christ. So it’s been a wonderful event. We are so excited for all the souls that have now come into the kingdom, and we’re so grateful for the King family for joining us on this powerful, powerful event. Thank you guys.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (28:44):
As you listen to this episode of The Evangelism Podcast today, I really hope that the Holy Spirit is inspiring creative ideas in you to reach people for Jesus. You know, there’s many different methods that are effective for bringing people to Jesus. There’s not one method that’s right, and all the other methods are wrong, but if God can use Santa Claus and a lot of decorations for Christmas to bring someone to him, then I think all of the heavens rejoice when someone gets saved. And so I’d encourage you to kind of use this episode to think about creative ways that you can share the gospel. How can you reach out to people? What are some different seasons throughout the year where people’s hearts would be open to having an outreach where you could inspire churches to get involved in an outreach? You know, there is a way for you to lead more people to Jesus.
(29:45):
And I pray that the Holy Spirit would show you exactly the right way to fit your circumstances in your situation. Let me pray for you. Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for my friend who’s listening right now. I pray that you would inspire them to lead many people to you, that you would use them to bring many into the kingdom of God. In Jesus’ name, amen. Recently I launched an online training course to help people to learn more about evangelism. And so I’m gonna play, uh, short advertisement for that training school. And if you want to be trained more and how to reach people for the gospel, then maybe this evangelism training school is for you. Let’s listen.
School of Evangelism (30:31):
Are you called by God to be an evangelist? Do you wanna lead millions of people to Jesus? Do you desire to be trained in the practical side of building a ministry? Then check out the Daniel King’s School of Evangelism. Learn how to be an effective evangelist from Dr. Daniel King’s 20 plus years of experience. Daniel King has done crusades all over the world in over 70 nations and has seen over 2 million people give their lives to Jesus. But it wasn’t easy. There was no crusade school. So Daniel traveled the world learning from an observing top evangelists noticing how they successfully won souls for Christ. Now he wants to share decades of knowledge and experience with you. Topics of the Daniel King School of Evangelism include what is an evangelist, how to be a master soul winner, how to give an ultra call, how to organize a crusade, how to raise money for your ministry, and much more. If you wanna be an evangelist but don’t know where to start, the Daniel King School of Evangelism is for you. Enroll today in the School of Evangelism by going to Daniel King ministries.com/evangelism.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (31:33):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review. You will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (32:53):
For more information about how to share your faith or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Wild Expectance | Bryan Citrin
Bryan Citrin wrote the book, Wild Expectance: which explains how to Start Living Your Life How God Designed It. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, we’re going to discover how to activate the power of wild expectance in your life.
Get your copy of Wild Expectance today:
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Bryan Citrin wrote the book, Wild Expectance: which explains how to Start Living Your Life How God Designed It. On today’s episode of the Evangelism Podcast, we’re going to discover how to activate the power of wild expectance in your life.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:32):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now here’s your host, missionary, and evangelist Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:56):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today I have a very special guest with me, Bryan Citrin. He is the author of a brand new book, which hasn’t even hit the market yet, but you are going to want to get a copy of this book, it’s called Wild Expectance. Bryan Citrin, thank you for being with me today.
Bryan Citrin (01:18):
Thanks so much, Daniel. I’m excited to be here.
(01:21):
All right, so Brian, you’ve been writing this book and I’ve actually been talking to you about it, and we’ve been doing all kinds of things, getting ready for the, the publishing of this book. Um, kind of talk to me about how God put this book in your heart.
(01:38):
So I feel like, you know, God has been dealing with me for a long time just to write down crazy wild God stories for my life, because my life is anything but typical. You know, I was living in Los Angeles for 12 years doing campus ministry at ucla and then usc I was taking countless trips to Haiti. I’ve been there 28 times, six mission trips to Vietnam, but also alongside of all my mission work that I was doing, I was running a business. And I remember I was speaking at this marketing conference for chiropractors, actually, and I was talking to ’em about marketing, and I thought God really strongly convicted me that I have so much more in me than just talking about how to run a marketing for a doctor. And, uh, and I had all these crazy, wild stories in my heart that I knew God wanted me to get out into the world. And, uh, you, within 30 days, I started writing the book in its official
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (02:34):
Capacity. And so you talk about lots of crazy God’s stories in this book. And of course, everyone who is serving God, they want to experience everything that God has for them. What can your reader get if they read this book?
Bryan Citrin (02:52):
Well, number one, they’re gonna have greater vision for the life because God has such a powerful plan for each and every one of us. But many times when we look on television, maybe we see the, the famous evangelist, the famous pastor, they’re speaking and they’re preaching, and you say, well, maybe God has a big plan for them, but not for me. Uh, maybe God has a big plan for that entrepreneur, but not for me. And it’s really to elevate people’s vision for the life, but then also provide a very practical tools, how each and every person can hear from God for themselves in their everyday life. And then by stepping out in God’s leading that we can enter into wild, crazy adventures that you couldn’t even fathom that God already has prepared for us, that we just have to learn to hear his voice and step out into them.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:33):
Now, you’ve done a lot of missionary work in the nation of Haiti. How many times have you been to Haiti?
Bryan Citrin (03:39):
28 times.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:40):
28 times ministering to the people in Haiti. And Haiti is a crazy country to minister in. And then you’ve also been to Vietnam, which is one of the communist countries that’s still left over from the days of Communist empire. And and how many times have you been to Vietnam? Six
Bryan Citrin (03:59):
Times.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:59):
And, and so you’ve been pouring your life out on the mission field. You’ve been serving God on the college campus here in the United States, going to Haiti, helping the poor kids down there, going to Vietnam, preaching the gospel there. Uh, and you’ve also been an entrepreneur, so you’ve been building business in order to fund the vision and the mission that, that God has for you. And so tell me some of these crazy stories. Give me one that was just absolutely wild that God did in your life.
Bryan Citrin (04:35):
I think one of my favorite stories was when Mc Hammer drove me home after the American Music Awards,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:41):
MC Hammer, the the famous American musician. Yes. All right. And, and so he drove you home from the Music awards. How did that happen?
Bryan Citrin (04:50):
Well, it, it was, it was a crazy series of events. There was like 20 things that had to happen that that built up to him actually driving me home. Um, but more importantly than that though, was what happened after he drove me home. I’d never met Mc Ham before, and, um, God somehow got us into the after party of the American Music Awards. And, um, but even before that, um, I was gifted, um, two VIP tickets to the American Music Awards. And then, so I got into the show, and then somehow I got into the after party because we met somebody sitting in front of us at the show that that got us into it. And through that process, I met Eny Hammer at the after party, and my, my friend had left that I rode with over to the, uh, the award show. And, uh, me, Andy Hammer happened to have a mutual acquaintance.
(05:36):
Um, and in that process, I, um, I was hanging out with him and, uh, and then as the night kind of wound up, uh, I need a ride home. And I asked him if, if I could catch a ride back with him to the area which I lived at, because I knew he was staying near where I lived at, and he allowed me to ride with him. So praise God, he didn’t leave me hanging in, uh, two miles from Skid Row in downtown Los Angeles. And, um, but then after that evening, I remember I was walking, um, to go get some tacos. Actually, there was a late night taco truck that’s kind of near where I lived at, and I was just walking to get some tacos just reflecting upon how crazy that night was. And these 20 things that happened that resulted in McHam drive me back.
(06:22):
And as I was doing that, I passed somebody and I felt like God wanted me to minister this man and even give him, um, some of the money they had in my wallet and to help him. And I did. And in that process, I was not only able to pray for him to rededicate his life to the Lord, but he actually, uh, received the Holy Spirit, and it was powerful. And as I was reflecting on the night, I heard the voice of God, um, very clearly speak to me. And he told me that was nothing compared to all those things that had to happen for empty hammers driving home.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (06:55):
So you had to have 20 coincidental things that happened over the course of a night in order for you to have this absolutely amazing experience that anybody would’ve loved to have. And you know, we might look at it and think that it’s a coincidence, but your hypothesis is that God is actually behind these so-called coincidences and he’s actually doing miracles on your behalf. And, and it’s because you have tremendous faith in God in what you term wild expectance. Is that, is
Bryan Citrin (07:31):
That right? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:34):
And so, talk to me about how your readers will be able to activate wild expectants in their own lives so they get to meet cool people and do cool things.
Bryan Citrin (07:44):
Well, even before that, I think it’s important for the, the listeners to, um, the really glean, you know what? God spoke to me as I was, I was walking back, uh, after I administered that man. God said that was nothing compared to all those things that had to happen for mc a to drive me home. But then he said, but that, that was something that was nothing, but that, that was something, me taking time out the minister to this guy, you know, on my way to the taco truck, you know, give him some money and pray with him and God’s eyes. That was the most important thing, way more important than those 20 other things that had to happen for that night to line up. And, and what that means is like God cares about those around us. God cares about us taking the time out and, and here is still small voice and minister to the those, to our left, those store.
(08:35):
Right? Maybe it’s, you’re going to the grocery store, maybe it’s on your way to work or whatever, God’s, God’s guiding us. And as you begin to hear God’s still small voice. I’m not saying that he’s actually speaking to you in a very loud, booming voice, but it may be a very thank thought. But as you learn to hear God through his still small voice, as you learn to hear those faint thoughts as you learned to hear that and step out on it, then God’s gonna start entrusting you with more and more and more. And because I was able to, to hear the voice of God, I was able to hear him as he was guiding me in the, for that whole night to, to play out. But maybe just maybe that whole night played out the way it, it was supposed to like that just so I could minister that guy, um, afterwards. And a, a mentor of mine once said to me that the voice of God can come as a sudden awareness followed by unique conviction. I’m gonna say that again. The voice of God can come as a sudden awareness followed by a unique conviction. And so maybe you have that sudden thought and that sudden thought that sudden awareness is actually God’s speaking to you. And if you step out on that thought, it’ll transform your life forever.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (09:52):
Now, another story that you tell in this book I really like because it, uh, features Daniel King, who’s a famous evangelist who goes all over the world telling people about Jesus. That’s me. You actually have a story in here about, uh, about me on page 1 73. So I’m, I’m pretty excited to, to get a story in your book. But, uh, tell me about that story and how that, uh, unique coincidence happened.
Bryan Citrin (10:19):
So that was a great story. I was in the jungle of Haiti, um, and I was preparing for a message. I was actually gonna be talking on the Holy Spirit. And as I prepared the talk in the Holy Spirit, you came to mind. I just got down to watching a podcast, um, from another prominent evangelist. Um, and they’re talking about their school evangelism. And as I was watching this podcast praying about, um, how I should, you know, you know, preach on this topic, you came to mind. So I texted you and you just happened to be coincidentally in the middle of speaking for that school that that other person was talking about. So literally, like I’m in the middle of, of Haiti. I’m watching, I’m watching like a video, and then they’re talking about their school evangelism. And then I text you and you’re like getting ready to speak for them. And then you were able to share some of your, um, some of your methodology, whatever you’re preaching on the Holy Spirit.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:16):
Yeah, I remember that you were planning to speak on the Holy Spirit that night, and, uh, you asked me about my best sermon on the Holy Spirit. And so I shared it with you, and now it became your best sermon on the Holy Spirit. Yeah. And so I freely give my sermons away. You can have it and anything you can do to bring people to Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
Bryan Citrin (11:34):
And now that sermon’s in this book,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:36):
And now it’s in the book, and so now people all over the world are gonna hear it. All right? So your goal is to turn this book into a New York Times bestseller, and that’s something that God has put in your heart. And so you are actually doing a, a major launch where the book will be released. What day will the book be released?
Bryan Citrin (11:59):
February 21st, 2023.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:00):
Okay. So February 21st, 2023. So it’s not even out yet, but it’s already up on Amazon and people can pre-order it. Yep. They can go into their local Barnes and Nobles like their local bookstore, and they can pre-order it.
Bryan Citrin (12:15):
Uh, I sure hope so. We’re trying to get ’em in there.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (12:17):
We’re we’re getting them in there. And if people will go and ask, of course they will be yes in there. And, and so this book, uh, I’d encourage you go on Amazon and look for Wild Expectants by Brian Ciran, and you can pre-order the book, and then as soon as the release date comes, it’s going to be shipped to you. It’s gonna be a beautiful hardcover book, one that you’re going to love having on your bookshelf, uh, is gonna make you look smart if you have this book on your bookshelf. And, uh, I encourage you to read it because you will be able to activate God’s wild expectance in your life. And, uh, Brian, you come with so much experience on the mission field ministering here in the United States on, on college campuses and just raw faith. Another thing that you’re doing is launching a new non-profit. Tell tell me about the name of your non-profit and what that’s gonna be. It’s
Bryan Citrin (13:14):
Called Ministry Funding.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:15):
Ministry Funding. And so this is going to be a nonprofit specifically designed to raise funding to put into evangelism into world missions. Is that right?
Bryan Citrin (13:25):
That’s absolutely correct.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:26):
And I’m very excited about that. Um, you know, it’s just so neat seeing how God is, is increasing your influence and bringing new relationships into your life. Uh, I’ve actually been friends with Brian for, for quite a few years now. And, and it’s neat how God takes us from glory to glory to glory. And so just recently, uh, you got engaged to a beautiful girl. Tell tell us about that.
Bryan Citrin (13:54):
Yeah, so the secret for all those who are watching or listening that, uh, are single is write a book that’s the secret. Um, and so in the pro writing a book, I, uh, I sent it over to a, a close friend of my cousins and close friend of my cousins. I asked her to read the book because I wanted her perspective on it, because I know women read books more men. And so I wanted to make sure it had good female appeal. I didn’t know in that process that we were gonna fall in love. And so the secret is write a book and be blatantly honest and be very, very truthful about who you are and you will attract, um, who you are.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (14:30):
Okay? So I’m not promising that you, if you buy this book, you’ll find a spouse, but it’s a possibility. It is a possibility. Uh, if you activate this principle of wild expends in your life, uh, you may find the person that God’s calling you to marry. And so the, the girl that you propose to, uh, Chelsea Perry, she is a girl that I went tou with. She, we were, were in Greek class together, and her parents pastor, a wonderful church over in St. Louis. And she’s a a powerful woman of faith, and you’re a, a man of great faith. I think that once you guys get married, it’s going to be absolutely amazing, uh, what God’s gonna do through you. You’re gonna be a powerhouse couple. All right, so tell your listeners, uh, if they want to get the Wild Expectance book, how can they get it?
Bryan Citrin (15:23):
So if you actually go to wild expectance.com and pre-order it on there as opposed to Amazon, you can get the PDF today.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:29):
Oh, you can get the pdf? Yeah,
Bryan Citrin (15:31):
You can. So if you buy, if you get the hard back actually on my website, as opposed on Amazon, you actually will get the hard back, which will come out in February, but then you’ll get the PDF immediately and you can start reading it, um, tonight. All
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:45):
Right. So go to wild expectance.com and get yourself a copy. Brian, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate
Bryan Citrin (15:53):
It. Hey, thanks so much for having me on
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (15:55):
Here. Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries? Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today, I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (17:15):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Apple iTunes
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Spotify
Subscribe to The Evangelism Podcast on Google Podcasts
Find The Evangelism Podcast on Stitcher
Listen to The Evangelism Podcast on Amazon Audible
The Evangelism Podcast is also available on iHeartRadio
Brigada Today | Hacks for Great Commission Christians
Doug Lucas edits the Brigade Today website and e-mail list. The goal is Brigade is to identify and promote resources and people that can help Christians fulfill the Great Commission. If you are involved in telling people about Jesus internationally, you will benefit every time the Brigade e-mail hits your inbox.
Subscribe to Brigade today: https://brigada.org/
Read more about Doug Lucas and his mission work: https://teamexpansion.org/
Transcript:
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (00:00):
Doug Lucas co-edits the Brigada Today website and email list. The goal of Brigada is to identify and promote resources and people that can help Christians fulfill the great commission. If you are involved in telling people about Jesus internationally, you will benefit every time the Brigada email hits your inbox.
Evangelism Podcast Host (00:36):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast with Dr. Daniel King, where Daniel interviews full-time evangelists, pastors, missionaries, and normal everyday Christians to discover how they share their faith, their powerful testimonies, and amazing stories that will inspire you to reach people with the good news. And now, here’s your host missionary evangelist, Daniel King.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:01):
Welcome to the Evangelism Podcast. I’m Daniel King, and I’m excited about telling people about Jesus. Today, I have a very special guest with me, Doug Lucas, thank you so much for joining me on the Evangelism Podcast.
Doug Lucas (01:14):
It’s an honor to be here, Daniel. Thanks
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:16):
Brother Doug. For many years I’ve been receiving emails in my inbox.
Doug Lucas (01:23):
I’m so sorry from, please forgive me,
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (01:26):
Brigada… these emails are full of very important resources for missionaries, for people involved in missions, for people who have a passion for the Great Commission. Tell me a little bit about Brigada and, and what the focus of these emails are.
Doug Lucas (01:49):
Sure. I was serving as a worker in the, what we would now call the former Soviet Union, uh, back in 1991. And I would see these, uh, refugees that would come in from Central Asia building homes and the place to which they were returning. And when they did, so they would work as a team, as a unit, and they would even pass the buckets of concrete or whatever to more the foundations in a kind of a brigade form and in the language that they were using. The word was, uh, briga and it stuck with me that they were, they were doing a kind of a bucket brigade. It all worked together toward this common cause. And when I came back, uh, shortly afterward, I was asked to lead the run up to a big missions convention that was trying to create a lot of, uh, momentum toward finishing the task of world evangelization. And it, uh, it led me to, to kind of think about doing that together across churches, across streams, across orgs. And so I propose, well, why don’t we start, uh, this conversation between each other, uh, maybe just a weekly, uh, some kind of weekly thing that could bring us together. And we got really good, uh, reinforcement from a ton of other people in several circles and started up in 1995, uh, with that idea. And it’s been weekly ever since Daniel, and that’s where we got the name Brigada.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (03:12):
So if someone is a missionary or passionate about world evangelism, who wants to be involved in the Great Commission, why should they go and sign up to receive emails from you? What, what are some of the benefits that they would receive?
Doug Lucas (03:40):
Brigada. It’s a, an eclectic, uh, collection of resources for people that are both goers and also sins for people who are active in cross-cultural work overseas, as well as those who are advocating and praying for the great commission to be accomplished in sending countries. And so I think that they could, they could end up liking it because out of every week’s, uh, version, hopefully they’ll take away at least one new resource or conference or some kind of, uh, uh, you know, app or idea or trend, maybe some new piece of information that they can get. And it’s, it’s a free resource at the end of each year. We ask folks, uh, if they wanna participate by, by pitching in on the expenses, and we raise just exactly the expenses we need, and we don’t take any extra money. Uh, if people gave money, I, I suppose we need to return it or put it toward the next year, but that’s never happened beyond the minimal expenses that are need just to run it. And it’s always, uh, it’s always been a lot of fun. It’s been going weekly since, uh, January 95. People have told me before that it might be the longest weekly easing on the internet of any kind. I don’t know if that’s true, but some people told me that.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (04:59):
Well, I’m really impressed with all the work that you put into this and how much you’ve helped so many different people that are involved in the Great Commission. I really like what you, you say that it, these are hacks for the Great Commission. And so let’s talk about like some of the different hacks that you’ve put out in the last year or so. What are some of the different features and articles that would really help missionaries? Uh, more recently,
Doug Lucas (05:28):
Some of the, some of the ways that Brigada is sort of different than maybe another typical eine is that one of the things we do is we throw out a sample of something that we found that works, and then we say, have you found something better in this particular genre? So we might throw out an example of, say, a website that short-term teams can use as a way to build their momentum before they go and, uh, you know, have you found something better? Well, the next Brigada user might comment, yeah, but this one lets them raise funds. And the funding goes through the, through the, through the website, and they only charge 2% for the funding. And then the next guy gets on and says, this one lets them raise funds and it’s one and a half percent plus, they also do newsletters. The people are sitting.
(06:17):
And so what you get is this kind of aggregated set of knowledge about particular genre. And we’ve done things about, for example, travel agents and travel services. We’ve done, uh, trip cancellation insurance policies, which ones are the best we’ve done, uh, what are the best ways to start new churches and multiply groups and multiply disciples, and where’s the best place to learn about that? And what’s the best book about it that you could read? Um, what’s a, an agency that helps you raise support and trains you how to raise support as a missionary? Well, what’s an agency that trains the people that train people to raise support? You know, all the, all the apps and the services for not only the kind of retail goers, but also kind of the wholesale ciders that operate at the, at the cinder level. We have a lot of folks who are very popular in the Misso Nexus world and the, the world of finishing the task and the world of, of, uh, Bible translation and a lot of folks that are kind of out of the old days of what we used to call the Association of Church Missions Committees.
(07:37):
We have a lot of local churches involved and a lot of international people. At one time, I think a guy did a survey about 10 or 15 years ago and found that half of regatta’s readership are international workers in places like Europe and Africa and Asia, Australia, New Zealand, all around the world, since it’s a lot of fun and it’s kind of a global stream that says, let’s get this done.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (07:59):
Well, if you’re listening and you have a heart for missions, I’d encourage you to go to brita.org and sign up today. And you can also look at past archives of recommendations for various services that are really beneficial that, that missionaries need to know about. It is very important to, to know best practices and which websites and which apps are the best ones to work with. And there’s no time for one person to keep up with everything. But through Brita, you can have recommendations from a wide variety of people who are out there in the field working. And so that’s, that’s it: www.Brigada.org. Now, Mr. Doug, you are very involved yourself in the great commission and leading people to Jesus, uh, through, uh, your, your ministry team expansion, uh, which can be be found TeamExpansion.org. Could you tell us some about the, the overall vision and, and, and mission of, of what you’re doing? Buratta is just one part of that, but, but talk to me about, uh, what you’ve been doing, uh, around the world for so long.
Doug Lucas (09:10):
Thanks. Thanks, Daniel. Brigada is kind of like crowdsourcing missions information and trends and resources, but that, that, that’s not how I’m paid. You know, my day job is actually to work at team expansion where I serve as a president. We have about 400 full-timers in 50 countries. And what we all do is try to make and multiply disciples and churches among unreached people. So when I try to write Brigada , um, I’m writing as a practitioner myself rather than as some marketing person that’s trying to start some website that I can someday develop into a full-time gig. I have no, you know, designs at all to try to do websites full-time. It’s kind of moonlighting on the side to try to share kind of one beggar telling another beggar where to Find Bread. Team Expansion is a mission organization in its own right. That started in 1978 in a little prayer meeting in a, in a dorm room.
(10:06):
And we all signed our names by different countries on the map. And, and, uh, the rest is history. I started out at the lawyer’s office from day one as the, as the president has somehow gotten stuck with the job ever since. And I’m always willing to hand it off to anybody else that wants it, but nobody else has wanted it yet. And we keep growing and we keep, uh, learning. Most of our workers are involved in simple practices that reproduce. We don’t have large, for the most part, large institutions and, and big properties. Were just simple reproducing disciple making movement strategies in, uh, unreached areas. So mostly among Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, atheists, animus, those are the places where we work. We’re based with the Louisville, Kentucky have a little 61 acre campus here where we, uh, spend time praying and, and do retreats and training people to be able to go in the missions is what we do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (11:04):
You have a tremendous focus on reaching on reach people groups and reaching every tribe, nation people with the gospel. What are some of the, the things that you’re finding are most effective at reaching into sometimes very difficult areas to, to talk to people about Jesus?
Doug Lucas (11:26):
You know, Daniel, the thing that’s helped us the most is just simply embracing the tools, the practices, the strategies of disciple making movement, uh, strategy. So dmm, and you could sum those up into, uh, maybe, uh, a handful of practices, a lot of prayer for, for the lost, uh, focusing on helping people obey rather than simply trying to transfer academic content. Um, trying to share a lot about my story or God’s story. In other words, abundant evangelism just everywhere. And just, just always involved in sharing that story, uh, training other people to do the same. That’s a big emphasis in disciple making movement strategy. And then, uh, gathering people into groups, small groups that would utilize discovery, Bible study type, uh, approaches, uh, three-thirds groups, some people call. And so focusing on simple reproducible groups as a means of being the motor for church growth.
(12:31):
And then, uh, I guess multiplying those groups and focusing on multiplication instead of just me always thinking that I have to be the one that adds, making sure that I’m trying to train this new believer so that she or he can multiply as well, and trying to do that out to many generations. And then, uh, focusing on growth among all those people so it’s not, uh, a mile wide and an inch deep, but instead everybody’s growing deep roots and reading a lot of scripture on applying it. So that’s kind of what we’re focused on. That would be the simple practices we would recommend. And
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (13:06):
Now on your website, it talks about statistics on unreached people groups and, uh, is, as I said, 7.84 billion people in the world today. I think now, maybe a few days ago I heard we’ve gone over 8 billion people, right? It says that there’s 17,409 known people groups, and 7,402 of those groups are considered on reach. K kind of explain the criteria for why one group would be considered reach and another group might be unreached.
Doug Lucas (13:38):
Yeah, it’s a great question. We, uh, have largely followed the kind of the industry norm of saying that an unreached people group would be a significantly large grouping of individuals who perceive themselves to have an affinity. They are perhaps linked by a, an ethnic or a language, uh, likeness with each other. And it’s like the largest number of individuals through which the gospel could flow before it encounters a barrier of understanding or acceptance. So what that means is you could use basically one simple strategy, and it could flow as fast and as hard and as long as it could go. But when it hits that wall of the next language group, then it might take a different, uh, startup in that next language group. Well, that would be defined as an unrich people group. And if you use that definition, that’s where we get those, uh, numbers that you mentioned, probably 7,000 or so, it’s hard to be exact, but around 7,000 groups that still don’t have a viable chance to know about Jesus.
(14:47):
And the typical statistics that you’ll hear used are somewhere between 2% or 5% or less of that group would, would claim to be, uh, an evangelical Christian of any kind. So they’re, they’re basically, by self definition, are they claiming to be a follower of Christ and active in doing that? Well, if that statistic is 2% or less, and if the place where they live doesn’t have some kind of a nominal Christian, uh, followership anyway, like a, a giant, you know, kind of cloud of Catholicism or some kind of, uh, adherence of Christianity, then that people group probably has essentially zero chance to hear about Jesus, you might as well say. And those are the groups, uh, through whom we focus now in this day and age, talking about literally right now in these years, we’re kind of adding in the idea of focusing on unreached places as well. So it’s gonna be unreached people and places as we go forward. That’s kind of the direction in the future. And the places would be simply, you know, districts or states or villages that don’t have a church. So people couldn’t hear about Jesus there either.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (16:04):
And why do you feel that it’s important for the church to pray for unreached people groups and then to, to start to engage them? A lot of people when they first start getting interested in missions, they might go on a short term trip to, to Mexico. And of course there’s, there’s lots of, of churches in Mexico, but why, why should the church care about these outreach people groups, and why should we put resources towards that area of outreach?
Doug Lucas (16:29):
It, it is, uh, a great, great question, Daniel. I’m glad you asked first because of course, we want the church to grow into all those peoples and places because it’s the vision that, uh, John records in Revelation seven. You know, it’s the promise of the end of the ages. In fact, was it Matthew 24 14 or so, we’re told that the gospel will, you know, be spoken and preached to every person, and then the end will come, um, the every nation, and then the end will come. Well, the, the expectation is that God is sort of leaning against the guardrail of heaven waiting for something to happen, and he’s waiting for apparently every single nation to have had a chance to hear. And then revelation seven, the vision will happen. All people’s, all nations, all tribes will be gathered and there’ll be representatives from every nation and tribe standing before his throne in a white robe.
(17:33):
There’s no way we can have that vision accomplished until we go to all those places. Then a secondary vision is we know that when the gospel does travel there, people can have peace and they can be happier. And in general, life picks up, you know, they have a hope, and that’s important. But then a third reason we do it is because Jesus said to, I mean, it’s just a simple command. In Matthew 28, for example, uh, 1920, Daniel Jesus said, make disciples of all nations. And you know, that word for nation is not the word that we would have expected it to be in English. If we were to use the word nation today, we think of a political nation, but the root word back then, it was a word that’s more likely would’ve been translated ethnic group. In fact, they didn’t even have political nations like we have today back in Jesus’ time. So these would be tribes or casts or kindreds. And if Jesus said, make disciples of every ethic group, you know, teach them to obey what I’ve told them to do at every ethic group, I just figure we ought to be about it. We ought to be doing it.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (18:43):
Amen. Well, if you want to learn more about reaching on reach people groups, I encourage you to go to team expansion.org, find out more about Doug Lucas and about reaching unreached people groups. And if you wanna support reaching Unre people groups, I encourage you to go and support their ministry. Mr. Doug, thank you so much for being on the Evangelism Podcast. I appreciate it.
Doug Lucas (19:07):
It’s an honored, Daniel, thank you for doing it and wish you best in, uh, all of the stuff that you produce. Thank you for the work that you do.
Evangelism Coach Daniel King (21:34):
Thanks so much for listening today. I am excited about telling people about Jesus, and I want to invite you to be a part of helping us to rescue people from Hell and take them with us to heaven. There’s two things you can do to help. First of all, can you go find the Evangelism podcast on Apple iTunes and leave us a positive review by giving a review, you will help other people find these valuable resources about sharing our faith. And second, would you become a financial partner with King Ministries. Every single dollar that people give us enables us to lead at least one person to Jesus. And so that means for only $1, you can help start a party in heaven. And so today, I want to invite you to become a monthly partner. You can start out for just a dollar, but if God puts it on your heart to do more, of course you can do more. But please go to king ministries.com and become a monthly partner with us today to help us to lead more people to Jesus. Thank you so much, and God bless you.
Evangelism Podcast Host (22:55):
For more information about how to share your faith, or to financially support our worldwide evangelistic outreaches, visit king ministries.com. Again, that’s king ministries.com.
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Podcast Episodes
Christine Morgan | Bringing A Living Message To A Dying World
Paul Daugherty | Victory Church Has a Heart for Missions
The Pentecostal Movement in Sweden | Josef Maxson
Humanitarian Outreach in Burkina Faso | Samuel Ouedraogo
Missionary from Ghana to Guinea | James Obeng
Reaching Muslims in Guinea
You Can Make a Difference
You & Jesus Can Shake the World
Will You Do What Jesus Told Us to Do?
What is Your Soul Winning Goal?
The Three Circles Method of Sharing the Gospel
The Romans Road Method of Sharing the Gospel
Take Up Your Cross
Passion for Saving Souls
Let Your Light Shine
Five Steps for Leading People to Jesus
Are You Fishing or Fighting?
Tina Waldrom | Evangelism in Australia
Zach Blickens & Cyprès | Using Music to Draw People to Christ
Rick Willison | Even the Blind Can See Miracles
Michael Sin and the Fourth Dimension | Impacting Asia with Music from Malaysia
Manop Moonsri | Reaching the Youth of Asia with Music
His Pop | Redeeming Music and Culture for Jesus
Bishop Albert | Free Christian Churches
Niclas Wiktorell | What is God Doing in Sweden?
Samuel Jonsson | Building the Local Church in Sweden
Stephan & Anne Christiansen | How to Start a Jesus Revolution
Zac Linton | The Power of a Ministry Sabbatical
Giles Stevens | Church Multiplication in Brazil
Hans Martin | Evidence of Faith
Harald Mydland | The Life & Legacy of Aril Edvardsen
Scott McNamara | Jesus At the Door
The Legacy of T.L. & Daisy Osborn | LaDonna Osborn
Manuel Guardado | From Belize to the World
Joseph Wilson | Persecution in India
DJ Moz | Kubamba Youth Movement in Kenya
Lucian Mustata | Heartbeats Music Festival in Romania
Moses Muguro | Empowering the Local Church for Evangelism
Nick Hurst | Young Evangelist Launches Out
Tom Miyashiro | From Faith 2 Faith
The Call of the Evangelist
Omar Cabrera | Evangelist to Argentina
How to Work with a Translator
How to Tell a Crusade Story
How to Raise Money for Your Ministry
How to Preach the Gospel
How to Pray for the Sick
How to Open a Crusade Sermon
How to Give an Effective Altar Call
How to Cast Out Demons
Cross Cultural Sensitivity for Evangelists
How Do I Find a Key to Evangelize a Nation?
Jonatan Proietti | Nueva Generación de Evangelistas
Reggie van Dinter | Evangelism in the United Kingdom
Clown for Christ | Chagy the Clown
Elias Annacondia | Invasion of Hope
Christopher Beth | The Bucket Ministry
Beat Baumann | The Go Movement
Evangelism Explosion | John Sorensen
The Billion Soul Harvest | Young Cho
Every Home for Christ | David Schaal
Calling All Great Commission Workers to Amsterdam 2023 | Ashley Wilson
Buddy Bell | How to Build the Helps Ministry in Your Church
Paul Fraser | Multiplying Churches in Canada
Waldy Bersche | Saving the Lost
Lako Bedasso | What is God Doing in Ethiopia?
Help Us Buy a Sound System | The Joshua Campaign in Ethiopia
Suraphael Demissie | Prophet to Ethiopia
Barry Meguiar | From Car Crazy to Jesus Crazy
Ray Comfort | So Many Lions, So Few Daniels
Ben King | The Circuit Riders Come to Tulsa
Anthony Greco | The Gospel of Jesus…is Jesus
Tyrella Smith | Gospel Fire for All Nations
Jon “Razz” Laframboise | What is Your Unique Evangelistic Expression?
Stephen Strang | Spirit Led Living in an Upside Down World
Lewis Alexander | Great Commandment Network
Ron Luce | Reaching the Next Generation for Jesus
John Albiston | Coaching Churches for Growth
Chris Busch | How to Evangelize Through Media
Roman Nechay | Youth Crusades in Africa & Asia
Bill Hogg | Advance Evangelists Summit Canada
Pentecostal History | Larry Martin
Larry Martin | Pentecostal Gold
Mikel French | To Russia With Love
Frankie Cortez | Raising Up Influencers for Jesus
Khon Khan | Turning Killing Fields Into Harvest Fields
Kevin Hardin | Building Destinies in America and Asia
Christmas Wonderland | Daniel King
Wild Expectance | Bryan Citrin
Brigada Today | Hacks for Great Commission Christians
Jared Buswell | Transformed Hearts Transform Nations
Jeremy Richardson | Bringing God’s Word and Power to Generation Z
Billy Bimba | From Liberia to the Nations
Calling All Evangelists | Global Evangelist Alliance
Shawn Brann | Ignite Europe & Flower Evangelism
Free Prayer Booth at the Tulsa State Fair | Daniel King & Joshua Wagner
Jeri Hill | Together in the Harvest
Jabran Inayat | Mission to Asia
Richard Gunning | From Belfast to the Ends of the Earth
Mikael Boman | What is Pioneer Missions?